"Crucifixion" boys freed
Cliff Morrison
<steve-...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
> "Hugh Mather-Farquhar" <h...@nym.alias.net> wrote in message
> news:2001011414020...@nym.alias.net...
>
> > The attackers were black, the victim was white.
> >
> > Was this a "hate crime"?
>
> If there was any evidence of racial motivation (eg through what was said to
> the victim during this ordeal or the general attitudes of the offenders
> before & after), then it obviously would be. Racial motivation is now
> recognised as an aggravating factor, and CPS would have put the case on this
> basis if there were grounds to do so.
Except that in other high-profile cases of late an automatic assumption
that it is "racial" seems to have become the default position till
indicated otherwise.
Afaics, the point he's making is one that, whether correctly or wrongly,
many ordinary people have been noticing. And it's arisen because
opportunist politicians, media and police have found it expedient to
pander to the most vociferous end of the "pc" lobby -- which has its own
entirely self-serving agenda that's not genuinely concerned with justice
or good race relations at all; indeed, the worse the better from their
vested-interest perspective.
Steve Walker
"Cliff Morrison" <cli...@post.almac.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cliffm-1501...@th-gt148-168.pool.dircon.co.uk...
> Except that in other high-profile cases of late an automatic assumption
> that it is "racial" seems to have become the default position till
> indicated otherwise.
Care to name two or three of these high -profile cases where racist motives
have been attributed without any evidence?
gaz
"Steve Walker" <steve-...@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:942grf$hki$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
The stabbing of the young boy just after Damilolas death, 'We have no idea
of the motive for the crime, but we are treating it as a racist incident'.
Gaz
dormouse
> > Care to name two or three of these high -profile cases where racist
> motives
> > have been attributed without any evidence?
> >
>
> The stabbing of the young boy just after Damilolas death, 'We have no idea
> of the motive for the crime, but we are treating it as a racist incident'.
>
> Gaz
>
The Lawrence murder's another ...
--
dormouse
Jonathan Bratt
<gazter...@yahoo.com> writes
A stupid thing to say.
--
Jonathan Bratt
Lucky Larry
Jonathan Bratt <Jona...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:lLO34GBZ...@moseley1.demon.co.uk...
> --
> Jonathan Bratt
Dave Benson
<ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
>Nevertheless, it was said, and by both the Police and the BBC.
Hence, a stupid thing to say....
--
Davey
http://www.psds.co.uk
ICQ 84335849
Lucky Larry
Dave Benson <the.l...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1d9c6ts7eqj6sfe7e...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:19:30 -0000, "Lucky Larry"
> <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Nevertheless, it was said, and by both the Police and the BBC.
>
> Hence, a stupid thing to say....
Both you and Jonathan(no surprise there) seem to be missing the point.
The very first reaction of the Police, to the discovery of Damilola, and
reports that two or three teenagers had been seen running away from the
scene, was to brand it a racist attack, in the mistaken belief that the 2/3
teenagers were white.
When it was discovered that the teenagers were Black both the Police and BBC
were content to downgrade it just to murder.
It was the relevation by the Ex Mayor of Pecham, herself a Nigerian and also
a Princess that West Indians regularly attacked and robbed Nigerians as well
as verbally abusing them with racial ephitets, that it was reluctanly
accepted that it was indeed a racist attack by both the Police and the BBC.
Further to this is the now vociferous denial by certain liberal bigots that
they had always accepted that racism was not the exclusive preserve of the
whites.
Despite a strenuous search on Deja Vu I am unable to find any evidence of
any of them making such a claim.
May I invite you to do such a search?
Jonathan Bratt
<ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> writes
>
>Dave Benson <the.l...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>news:1d9c6ts7eqj6sfe7e...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:19:30 -0000, "Lucky Larry"
>> <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >Nevertheless, it was said, and by both the Police and the BBC.
>>
>> Hence, a stupid thing to say....
>
>Both you and Jonathan(no surprise there) seem to be missing the point.
The point is that the police were stupid to say it.
--
Jonathan Bratt
Terence Fformby-Smythe
<ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
>It was the relevation by the Ex Mayor of Pecham, herself a Nigerian and also
>a Princess that West Indians regularly attacked and robbed Nigerians as well
>as verbally abusing them with racial ephitets, that it was reluctanly
>accepted that it was indeed a racist attack by both the Police and the BBC.
The pot calling the kettle black?
Paul Hammond
Lucky Larry wrote in message <945dcg$cabs3$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de>...
>
<snip>
>Further to this is the now vociferous denial by certain liberal bigots that
>they had always accepted that racism was not the exclusive preserve of the
>whites.
> Despite a strenuous search on Deja Vu I am unable to find any evidence of
>any of them making such a claim.
>May I invite you to do such a search?
>
>
Dear Larry,
I, as a strong supporter of equal rights for all, and a strong opponent
of racism and prejudice, have never asserted that blacks cannot be
racist.
Since black people and asian people are *people*, they are subject
to all the weaknesses that flesh is heir to, just as white folk are.
*All* people suffer from a tendency to prejudice, and to characterise
other groups of people as worse than their group.
So, it doesn't surprise me that black people from Africa, and black
people from the Caribbean have different cultures, and sometimes
grow up with an idea that there is something wrong with the other
lot. It saddens me that this problem should exist among black
people, when these folk already have to face prejudice from
the dominant white culture in these islands. Just as it saddens
me that there are white racists who want to belittle and
undermine black people.
But I, for one, have never said that racism does not exist in
ethnic minorities.
Paul
(btw - if you can't find any 'liberal bigots' on this forum railing
against prejudice between ethnic minorities, there are probably
other reasons for that fact than the one you put forward. For instance,
I wouldn't waste my time combatting chinese anti-Japan prejudices
on this group, because AFAIK no one chinese has ever posted
anti-Japanese rants on this group. But anti-black and anti-jewish
rants appear here with refreshing regularity. There's not much point
wasting your energies tilting at windmills - we'll have a go at
intra-ethnic prejuduce when we've solved the larger problem of
white prejudice against minority cultures in this county)
Lucky Larry
Paul Hammond <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3a67...@news-uk.onetel.net.uk...> Dear Larry,
>
It saddens me that this problem should exist among black
> people, when these folk already have to face prejudice from
> the dominant white culture in these islands.
But Paul you don't practice prejudice, and you are part of the dominant
white culture.
Your statement smacks of racial sterotyping!
Just as it saddens
> me that there are white racists who want to belittle and
> undermine black people.
Again with the basic errors!
It is the actions of the Black/Browns amongst us that belittles and
undermines themselves.
I and my fellow posters just point them up, to those who refuse to see them.
>
we'll have a go at
> intra-ethnic prejuduce when we've solved the larger problem of
> white prejudice against minority cultures in this county){COUNTRY}?
Again with the racist slurs, bit difficult to see them creeping up on you,
when you are wearing rose tinted spectacles every time you see a Black/Brown
face?
>
>
Paul Hammond
Paul Hammond wrote in message <3a67...@news-uk.onetel.net.uk>...
>
>
>(btw - if you can't find any 'liberal bigots' on this forum railing
>against prejudice between ethnic minorities, there are probably
>other reasons for that fact than the one you put forward. For instance,
>I wouldn't waste my time combatting chinese anti-Japan prejudices
>on this group, because AFAIK no one chinese has ever posted
>anti-Japanese rants on this group. But anti-black and anti-jewish
>rants appear here with refreshing regularity. There's not much point
>wasting your energies tilting at windmills - we'll have a go at
>intra-ethnic prejuduce when we've solved the larger problem of
>white prejudice against minority cultures in this county)
>
Oops! - what a mistake to make! I meant, of course that
'...anti-black and anti-jewish rants appear here with *depressing*
regularity'
>
Paul Hammond
Lucky Larry wrote in message <947g9f$clgos$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de>...
>
>Paul Hammond <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
>news:3a67...@news-uk.onetel.net.uk...
>>
>> Lucky Larry wrote in message <945dcg$cabs3$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de>...
>> >
>> Dear Larry,
>>
>It saddens me that this problem should exist among black
>> people, when these folk already have to face prejudice from
>> the dominant white culture in these islands.
>
>But Paul you don't practice prejudice, and you are part of the dominant
>white culture.
>Your statement smacks of racial sterotyping!
>
Huh? 'Most racists are whites' is a very different statement from
'most whites are racists'. In Britain, the first is true, while the second
is false.
<snip>
>we'll have a go at
>> intra-ethnic prejuduce when we've solved the larger problem of
>> white prejudice against minority cultures in this country)
>
>Again with the racist slurs, bit difficult to see them creeping up on you,
>when you are wearing rose tinted spectacles every time you see a
Black/Brown
>face?
Sorry? The whole point of my last post was to say that I do *not*
regard Black and Asian folk through rose tinted spectacles.
You said that liberal bigots refuse to accept the possibility that
black people can be racist themselves. I say that I consider all
people as part of the same human race, and prone to the same
human failings. Black people hold racist and sexist views, commit
crimes, murder and fight, just as white people do. I hope that
everyone will be true to the better part of human nature, but it would
be folly to deny that the dark side is very often evident. I just consider
that Black people are my equals in every way, and will not make
a judgement about them just on the basis of the colour of their skin.
How is it racist to state the fact that most racism in this country
is performed by white people against black people?
Paul
Lucky Larry
Paul Hammond <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:3a67...@news-uk.onetel.net.uk...
>
> Lucky Larry wrote in message <947g9f$clgos$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de>...
> >
> >Paul Hammond <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
> >news:3a67...@news-uk.onetel.net.uk...
> >>
> >> Lucky Larry wrote in message
<945dcg$cabs3$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de>...
> >> >
> >> Dear Larry,
> >>
> >It saddens me that this problem should exist among black
> >> people, when these folk already have to face prejudice from
> >> the dominant white culture in these islands.
> >
> >But Paul you don't practice prejudice, and you are part of the dominant
> >white culture.
> >Your statement smacks of racial sterotyping!
> >
>
> Huh? 'Most racists are whites' is a very different statement from
> 'most whites are racists'. In Britain, the first is true, while the
second
> is false.
>
>>>> the dominant white culture in these islands.
Or are you saying that the Dominant Culture is white and therefore racist?
> <snip>
>
> >we'll have a go at
> >> intra-ethnic prejuduce when we've solved the larger problem of
> >> white prejudice against minority cultures in this country)
> >
> >Again with the racist slurs, bit difficult to see them creeping up on
you,
> >when you are wearing rose tinted spectacles every time you see a
> Black/Brown
> >face?
>
>
> Sorry? The whole point of my last post was to say that I do *not*
> regard Black and Asian folk through rose tinted spectacles.
But you do Paul, denying it won't make it so.
The whole tenor of your post says there is black/brown racism but it pales
into insignificance when put alongside white racism.
>
> You said that liberal bigots refuse to accept the possibility that
> black people can be racist themselves. I say that I consider all
> people as part of the same human race, and prone to the same
> human failings. Black people hold racist and sexist views, commit
> crimes, murder and fight, just as white people do. I hope that
> everyone will be true to the better part of human nature, but it would
> be folly to deny that the dark side is very often evident. I just
consider
> that Black people are my equals in every way, and will not make
> a judgement about them just on the basis of the colour of their skin.
But Paul that is exactly the way they view you and I.
The Black/Brown people of this Island pick out their victims purely on the
grounds of colour of their skins.
White people equals rich people.
That is where they equate their equality.
>
> How is it racist to state the fact that most racism in this country
> is performed by white people against black people?
You have a cite for that "Fact"
If you are mugged in the street by a Black/Brown who calls you white scum.
When you report it to the police it is simply recorded as a street robbery
by a Black/Brown assailant.
When a white man robs a Black/Brown and calls them Black/Brown scum, it is
recorded as a street robbery and also as a racial attack.
SPOT THE DIFFERENCE.
Check it out at your local nick!
Patrick Doherty
Terence Fformby-Smythe wrote:
Don't you mean, pot calling kettle non-white?
--
Patrick
Tell a man there are 100 billion stars in the universe and he will beleieve you,
tell him a bench has wet paint and he'll have to touch it to see for himself.
Fergus O'Rourke
news:%9496.2692$I5.41195@stones...
IIRC there was plenty of evidence of racism in the Lawrence case.
As to Gaz's example, by itself it is not a good one: it is not unreasonable
to suspect racist motive if no other can be seen, just as in NI, incidents
will be given a "sectarian" label in similar circumstances.
You both have a point, though: there is an amount of laziness in the use
of the label.
dormouse
> > The Lawrence murder's another ...
>
> IIRC there was plenty of evidence of racism in the Lawrence case.
>
1. The victim was black ...
2. Erm...
3. That's it.
Go on then lets here some.
--
dormouse
dormouse
I know its a poor show to reply to your own posts but I forgot to add there
was evidence of racism after all - most damning evidence to boot.
4. A bunch of parasitic lawyers saw that they could make a bit more money at
the taxpayers expense if they jumped on to the bandwagon and called it a
racist crime.
--
dormouse
Terence Fformby-Smythe
<my_sp...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Terence Fformby-Smythe wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:30:10 -0000, "Lucky Larry"
>> <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >It was the relevation by the Ex Mayor of Pecham, herself a Nigerian and also
>> >a Princess that West Indians regularly attacked and robbed Nigerians as well
>> >as verbally abusing them with racial ephitets, that it was reluctanly
>> >accepted that it was indeed a racist attack by both the Police and the BBC.
>>
>> The pot calling the kettle black?
>
>Don't you mean, pot calling kettle non-white?
>
Did someone mention Nigeria? Please, not again :-)
Lucky Larry
dormouse <sorry.b...@isnt.real> wrote in message
old fashioned avarice?
dormouse
money
> at
> > the taxpayers expense if they jumped on to the bandwagon and called it a
> > racist crime.
> >
> Are you Equating Blackness and lawyer with parasitic behaviour or just
good
> old fashioned avarice?
>
I refuse to answer on the grounds that this has been cross-posted to
uk.legal the abode of said lawyers. :-)
--
dormouse
Alan Hope
that Hugh Mather-Farquhar <h...@nym.alias.net> had gnawed a message
into the bark of a tree, which read:
>Paul Hammond wrote:
>>How is it racist to state the fact that most racism in this country
>>is performed by white people against black people?
>You are imposing a cultural stereotype by your implications that:
> a) Whites have a greater tendency to racism than non-whites
> b) Non-whites have a lesser tendency to racism than whites
There's no difference between those two points, so they become one.
And they become one which does not follow from what the man said. He
spoke of most racists being white. That's self-evidently true, since
the vast majority of the population is white. He made no argument as
to proportional representation.
You got confused and thought he meant whites were more racist than
non-whites. I believe that to be true also, unless we're speaking of
thought-crimes. Most non-whites are not in a position to put their
racism into practice, so while they may detest the colour of the
boss's skin, that sort of racism is of no importance compared to the
racism of the white boss, who is in a position to make his hatred of a
non-white skin count.
But, as I say, you're jumping to a conclusion based on something he
didn't say.
>Until you can produce figures that quantify the absolute amount of racism
>of whites and the percentage amount of racism of whites and compare these
>with the relevant figurees for non-whites, you are merely telling us your
>feelings.
No. He described a situation which is not even arguable. It was also,
to be honest, fairly meaningless. As you point out, some kind of
weighting for population would be needed. As I just pointed out, it's
important, also, to take into account the power of the racist to give
his prejudices a concrete impact. The racism of a policeman, for
example, is not cancelled out by the racism of a shopkeeper. One has
infinitely more power to affect the object of his hatred. His racism
is more important. It follows that the priority is to wipe out racism
among the police before we think about the countervailing racism of
Asian shopkeepers. And so on for judges, politicians, newspaper
editors, captains of industry and so on. It's instructive to note that
it was militantism on the part of the non-white communities which led
to the introduction of anti-discrimination legislation like the Race
Relations Act. Why? Because any racist feelings harboured up to that
point against white people had no effect on anyone. I'd say that's by
and large still the case.
>In the absence of those figures, we can look at crime figures which show,
>according to Sir Paul Condon, that inter-racial crime is primarily a one-way
>street with whites being far more prone to attack by non-whites than vice
>versa.
Crime is a whole separate issue. Crime is, or should be, colour-blind.
If you're mugged, it makes no difference if your mugger was black or
white. It may be that the police will act more diligently if a white
person is mugged by a black youth, but that's all to the good,
frankly. The police could do with being roused to a little more
diligence, in the main.
The problem arises if they're dismissive of black-on-black crime to
the extent of slacking. Even worse, if they swing the lead on
white-on-black incidents. There's no evidence to suggest they do
(other than in cases involving rival gangs, where it's only politic to
stay out of the way so long as innocent citizens are not endangered --
and that's done as much for Yardies as it is for all-white gangs).
Perhaps the odd anecdote here and there. In any case, the failure of
police to investigate crimes reported to them to a reasonable extent
is cuplable regardless of the ethnicity of those involved. What the
fuck are the police *for* if not that?
>Of course, those figures don't prove racism on the part of the non-white
>attackers. They just prove that, proportionately, whites are more likely
>to be robbed, raped or murdered by non-whites than whites.
Not true even in your wildest dreams. White people are far and away
more likely, on average, to be the victims of white criminals
(assuming they're victims at all) than of any other group. Far and
away more likely. It's only common sense. Most people are white, and
most criminals are white. It follows that most victims are the victims
of white criminals.
--
AH
Dave Plowman
Alan Hope <ah...@skynet.be> wrote:
Just about the most sense I've seen here for many a day.
--
* The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Lucky Larry
Alan Hope <ah...@skynet.be> wrote in message
news:j3mh6to866kg2qaas...@4ax.com...
population, the whites are more likely to be attacked and murdered by Blacks
than by whites, despite shipman.
For such a small minority within a law abiding population, Blacks are
amazingly prolific in the amount of crime they commit.
They outnumber every other racial ethnicity in our prisons, why do you think
that is?
High visibility perhaps?
Police Racism?
Heaven forbid it's anything to do with them being so incompetent that they
are easy to catch!
DAVID SAMUELS
society are much more likely to commit crime with a property related motive
than the prosperous, the employed and those comfortably within the
mainstream - 'white-collar crime' and insider share-trading notwithstanding.
Black people in this country, especially Afro-Caribbeans are - through no
fault of their own (and to say different IS racist) - much more likely to be
in one or more of those categories than whites or people of other
ethnicities.
Thus it is hardly surprising to find that black individuals are
over-represented in relation to their involvement in property crime - even
that which has a dimension of violence - compared to their percentage of the
community as a whole.
This is a pretty incontrovertible syllogism
Black people do not 'outnumber every other racial ethnicity in our prisons',
the percentage merely exceeds their percentage of blacks in our population.
This is partly because of the above syllogiism, but also partly because
indeed of police racism - which is acknowledged by most high-ranking police
officers and therefore hardly worth debating with the pea-brained racist
side of this argument
Lucky Larry <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94cuv5$d3vlb$1...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de...
Barton Whoops
<SAMN...@samuels20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Lets face it, the poor, the unemployed and those alienated from mainstream
>society are much more likely to commit crime with a property related motive
>than the prosperous, the employed and those comfortably within the
>mainstream - 'white-collar crime' and insider share-trading notwithstanding.
>
>Black people in this country, especially Afro-Caribbeans are - through no
>fault of their own (and to say different IS racist) - much more likely to be
>in one or more of those categories than whites or people of other
>ethnicities.
To say different is NOT necessarily racist. You have to ask why black
people are in this alienated group. You obviously attribute it to
racism. Here are two articles by *black* writers who say that the the
problems of black society are self-made, the solution lies in their
own hands and continually blaming the problem on 'white society' is
not only wrong, but damaging to ALL concerned.
Black youth culture blamed as pupils fail
================================
http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4053484,00.html
A respected black academic last night sparked a furious debate after
he claimed his community was 'not interested' in intellectual activity
and blamed black youth culture for the poor school record of
Afro-Caribbean boys and girls.
In an exclusive interview with The Observer, Tony Sewell, a university
lecturer who has just finished an inquiry into soaring levels of
exclusions among black pupils from a London school, claimed that too
much concern with money and consumer goods was almost as damaging to
black pupils' chances as racism.
He warned that fashionable black youth culture inevitably crossed over
to white teenagers, and said tackling it would benefit all pupils.
'What we have now is... not only the pressure of racism, but black
peer grouping [which] has become another pressure almost as big as
institutional racism was.'
Black children had gained much-needed self-esteem from their youth
culture becoming part of the mainstream, he conceded. 'But that
culture is not one that, for example, is interested in being a great
chess player, or intellectual activity.
'It is actually to do with propping up a big commercial culture to do
with selling trainers, selling magazines, rap music and so on.'
Sewell's comments provoked an angry response from others in the black
community and ignited an acrimonious debate about the real causes of
under-achievment in British schools. Black community leaders accused
him of encouraging a 'blame the victim' culture.
The Commission for Racial Equality (CRE) is already investigating a
string of allegations that head teachers unfairly excluded black
children. Official figures show that this is four times as likely to
happen to Afro-Caribbean children as to whites. A report to be
published tomorrow by the United Nations Committee for the Elimination
of Racial Discrimination is expected to criticise the UK.
Lee Jasper, who advises London Mayor Ken Livingstone on race
relations, said: 'Tony Sewell... is somebody who gets attention for
saying the things that well-meaning white liberals would naturally
agree with.
'I don't believe that any community can suffer the levels of
unemployment and missed education that we have had without suffering
from the kind of problems that are now apparent.
'It is a "blame the victim" culture yet again - if it's not the
Government saying it's lone mothers that are the problem, it's the
aggressive nature of black kids.'
British schools were suffering a 'race crisis', particularly over
exclusions, said Jasper. 'There is a raft of evidence that white
female teachers find black boys intimidating, difficult to deal with.
They have an expectation about their behaviour which tends to dictate
the quality of teaching,' he said.
An Ofsted survey last year found that Afro-Caribbean boys were often
the lowest- performing group in GCSE exams. It asked schools urgently
to establish 'what is happening to Afro-Caribbean boys to cause a good
start in primary schools to turn into such a marked decline, and take
action to reverse it'.
Maxie Hayles, chair of the Birmingham Racial Attacks Monitoring Unit,
said in his submission to the UN that black children 'are often
labelled by teachers as disruptive and less intelligent than white
pupils', creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.
'It would be daft to think that all social exclusions are based around
institutional racism,' he said.
'But I would never attack black culture... Black youths need
something: they feel debased, they need something to idenitify with.'
Sewell, a lecturer at the University of Leeds who investigated black
parents' allegations of unfair exclusions from Malory comprehensive
school in Lewisham, south-east London, said he was telling a truth
that liberal white researchers dare not.
He admits he was one of the lucky few blacks to succeed academically:
'I teach 400 trainee teachers and there is not one black face.'
The next article, some strange ideas but some valid points too.
'From rage to responsibility'
=====================
'The other Jesse's' groundbreaking new book on curing the race problem
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21413
Question: Why would a black minister -- who for years has spent his
time and resources successfully mentoring inner-city black youths to
be responsible young men -- find himself the target of racism? And not
from whites, but from blacks.
Answer: Because the Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson has dared to ask black
Americans, particularly black men, to give up their "victim" status
and the anger that goes with it -- especially the anger over past
wrongs committed against their race.
They are individuals of free will, says Peterson, who have the ability
to choose their own path without blaming others for their
life-problems, which, he adds, only serves to hinder their personal
growth.
Now that's a message not heard from Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. In
fact, Peterson's ideas -- which he has put into action for the past
nine years in a spectacularly effective counseling program -- have
earned him the title of "Uncle Tom" and even "traitor" from some
blacks who accuse the activist of "thinking like a white man."
Peterson, founder and director of the Brotherhood Organization of a
New Destiny, has teamed up with social researcher Brad Stetson to
write "From Rage To Responsibility" -- a blunt, often provoking
analysis of black society. In it, Peterson accuses "self-appointed"
civil rights leaders, such as Jackson and Sharpton, of drawing color
lines in America and intentionally perpetuating racial tensions
through what he dubs the "race industry" -- a "tremendously profitable
business," he says.
"Far too many black 'leaders' urge us to incorporate the sins of the
past into our consciousness today, and manifest today the anger that
was warranted then. They do this because they have found great social
and political capital in anger," Peterson writes.
That "rage" mentality, he asserts, has shaped every aspect of life for
too many black Americans -- from relations between the sexes and the
breakdown of the family to immigration and education.
Peterson issues a challenge to members of his race to adopt
"Pro-American Individualism."
"This is the land of freedom and innovation," he writes, "which
provides people with opportunity for social and economic advancement
unrivaled anywhere on the globe. If people adopt the values that make
for personal success -- hard work, careful spending of money,
sustained effort, delayed gratification -- and keep themselves
psychologically healthy by rejecting rage and resentment as the
controlling attitudes of their lives, they will do well."
Perhaps the most controversial theme in the book is summed up early
on: "The undeniable fact is that the greatest enemies to black
progress today are within the black community itself," writes
Peterson, "not in American society at large." Many middle-class
Americans, black and white, share Peterson's views but have been
afraid to say so for fear of being labeled a "racist."
But Peterson, a courageous crusader who has endured many death
threats, is much like the child in "The Emperor's New Clothes." He is
articulating truths that most Americans already know deep down. But
hearing them spoken boldly, without judgment or guile, by one of the
nation's new crop of black leaders, is helping to stir up a renewed
conversation about race relations and the condition of black Americans
Paul Hammond
Barton Whoops wrote in message <3a6b32ea...@news.claranews.com>...
>On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:55:00 -0000, "DAVID SAMUELS"
><SAMN...@samuels20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Lets face it, the poor, the unemployed and those alienated from mainstream
>>society are much more likely to commit crime with a property related
motive
>>than the prosperous, the employed and those comfortably within the
>>mainstream - 'white-collar crime' and insider share-trading
notwithstanding.
>>
>>Black people in this country, especially Afro-Caribbeans are - through no
>>fault of their own (and to say different IS racist) - much more likely to
be
>>in one or more of those categories than whites or people of other
>>ethnicities.
>
>To say different is NOT necessarily racist. You have to ask why black
>people are in this alienated group. You obviously attribute it to
>racism. Here are two articles by *black* writers who say that the the
>problems of black society are self-made, the solution lies in their
>own hands and continually blaming the problem on 'white society' is
>not only wrong, but damaging to ALL concerned.
>
>
One easy point - Afro-caribbean culture is certainly *not* the
fault of those teenage black boys whose educations suffer
through growing up in that culture. There is a similar 'reading
is cissy' culture amongst the white working class teenage
male, which similarly encourages routes into vandalism,
crime and drug dealing as routes to independence, rather than
A-levels and University courses, and a career in law. You
don't go around blaming those particular teenage boys for
suffering from the peer pressure of this macho culture.
Another point - if we are talking about immigrant populations,
coming into this country, they get the worst housing areas
and the worst jobs, just by not having the contacts to do
anything but work up from the bottom. It ain't necessarily
white racism that puts black people at the poorer end of
our society, and David Samuels didn't say it was.
Paul
Lucky Larry
The number of prisoners in the UK is about 58,000.
Of that number more than 50% are of Black West Indian origin, that is
recently arrived from the West Indies, Long time in the UK from the West
Indies and Born here of West Indian parents.
To deny this is to be racist.
Really think about that statement!
Denying the truth, casting the blame on others that is racism of the highest
order.
DAVID SAMUELS <SAMN...@samuels20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94fane$jd4$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Barton Whoops
<paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>>To say different is NOT necessarily racist. You have to ask why black
>>people are in this alienated group. You obviously attribute it to
>>racism. Here are two articles by *black* writers who say that the the
>>problems of black society are self-made, the solution lies in their
>>own hands and continually blaming the problem on 'white society' is
>>not only wrong, but damaging to ALL concerned.
>>
>>
><2 long articles about Afro-carribean culture snipped>
>
>One easy point - Afro-caribbean culture is certainly *not* the
>fault of those teenage black boys whose educations suffer
>through growing up in that culture.
Nope, I don't think you can 'blame' culture on any individual.
>There is a similar 'reading
>is cissy' culture amongst the white working class teenage
>male, which similarly encourages routes into vandalism,
>crime and drug dealing as routes to independence, rather than
>A-levels and University courses, and a career in law. You
>don't go around blaming those particular teenage boys for
>suffering from the peer pressure of this macho culture.
>
>Another point - if we are talking about immigrant populations,
>coming into this country, they get the worst housing areas
>and the worst jobs, just by not having the contacts to do
>anything but work up from the bottom. It ain't necessarily
>white racism that puts black people at the poorer end of
>our society, and David Samuels didn't say it was.
But some immigrant minorities eg African Asians, Indians do quite
[sometimes very] well. In stark contrast to blacks.
If I misinterpreted DSs remarks then I stand corrected.
Alan Hope
find that "Lucky Larry" <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> had gnawed a
message into the bark of a tree, which read:
>Alan Hope <ah...@skynet.be> wrote in message
>news:j3mh6to866kg2qaas...@4ax.com...
>> On 19 Jan 2001 18:35:07 -0000, we crawled outside our shelter to find
>> that Hugh Mather-Farquhar <h...@nym.alias.net> had gnawed a message
>> into the bark of a tree, which read:
>> Not true even in your wildest dreams. White people are far and away
>> more likely, on average, to be the victims of white criminals
>> (assuming they're victims at all) than of any other group. Far and
>> away more likely. It's only common sense. Most people are white, and
>> most criminals are white. It follows that most victims are the victims
>> of white criminals.
>Depending here on reports from the USA, despite an overwhelming majority in
>population, the whites are more likely to be attacked and murdered by Blacks
>than by whites, despite shipman.
>For such a small minority within a law abiding population, Blacks are
>amazingly prolific in the amount of crime they commit.
>They outnumber every other racial ethnicity in our prisons, why do you think
>that is?
>High visibility perhaps?
>Police Racism?
>Heaven forbid it's anything to do with them being so incompetent that they
>are easy to catch!
I see. So they're incompetent and easy to catch, yet somehow manage to
be prolific criminals? I wonder how that can be.
Your statements about incidence of crime look, I'll be frank, like
made-up, hate-mongering racist bullshit. I don't believe your "reports
from the USA" for a minute.
Correct me if I'm wrong, why don't you, with some supporting evidence
from reputable sources. The kind of sources, say, for whom "dressing
up to go out" doesn't involve bedsheets?
--
AH
DAVID SAMUELS
Lucky Larry <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94fmgm$dhpfi$4...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de...
Lucky Larry
just as nice or even nicer than us racists go ahead, when they kick you
unconcious in the street, because you are white, don't come crying to me.
The kind of sources, say, for whom "dressing
> up to go out" doesn't involve bedsheets?
The Klu Klux Klan don't use bedsheets, their white coveralls are made from
white cotton gingham and are tailored individually, they are treated to
throw off bloodstains and scorch marks.
If you are genuinely interested I can give you the name of my Tailor, just
mention my name for a generous discount.
>
>
> --
> AH
Lucky Larry
Go figure.
DAVID SAMUELS <SAMN...@samuels20.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94h4bi$5g9$2...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
DAVID SAMUELS
prision population just over 60,000, including young offenders in England
and Wales just over 12,000 were from the ethnic minorities. For more on
this, you fucking liar, see my posting 'LUCKY LARRY, LYING RACIST SCUM'news:94ici3$do64o$7...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de...
Lucky Larry
So they have moved the niggers out?
Or they are including Hispanics as whites?
Young offenders are not kept in prisions, they are kept in Young Offenders
Institutes.
Mixing figures up to prove a dubious point is very suspect David.
Stop Lying David!news:94mgt9$omr$2...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
DAVID SAMUELS
We don't have Hispanics' in Britain, by which I take it you mean people of
Latin American origin.
We do have Spanish people living and working here - a few thousand - they
are after all fellow members of the EU, but they are Europeans, not people
central Americans.
And don't keep calling me David - you make it sound creepy.
And its 'Young Offenders Institutions' and the Home Office, while
differentiating them, do publish a monthly figure taking them both together
for the purpose of ethnic monitoring
You are a total wanker,
Lucky Larry <ny...@nysa.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message
news:94nbhn$ee5eh$2...@ID-60076.news.dfncis.de...
Patrick Doherty
DAVID SAMUELS wrote:
> YOU TOTALLY DUMB FUCKING AMERICAN TWAT.
>
> We don't have Hispanics' in Britain, by which I take it you mean people of
> Latin American origin.
We don't? Do the hispanics living in britain know this?
--
Lucky Larry
> YOU TOTALLY DUMB FUCKING AMERICAN TWAT.
>
Congratulations David my boy.
I ain't an Americunt however.
> We don't have Hispanics' in Britain, by which I take it you mean people of
> Latin American origin.
So there are no Brazilians Peruvians, Mexicans, Colombians living here only
those nice spanishers?
>
> We do have Spanish people living and working here - a few thousand - they
> are after all fellow members of the EU, but they are Europeans, not people
> central Americans.
They are however classed as white when they most obviously ain't.
>
> And don't keep calling me David - you make it sound creepy.
>
> And its 'Young Offenders Institutions' and the Home Office, while
> differentiating them, do publish a monthly figure taking them both
together
> for the purpose of ethnic monitoring
>
> You are a total wanker,
That is not an insult, partly because it is true and partly because most men
and most women are as well.
With a population of some 60 million, your figures of a prison population of
60 thousand works out to 1 prisoner per 1thousand of the pop:
With a prison pop: of 12,000 and using the above formula, then there must be
12 million Black/Asian pop: in this country.
And a 48 million white pop:
The truth is: there is a 55 million white Pop: and a 5 million B/B pop:
48,000:55,000,000 giving a close ratio of 1:1145
12,000:5,000,000 " " " " " 1:0417
So you should be able to see that a B/B is three times more likely to get
caught and thrown in prison than a comparable Honky!