So "Kocaoglan of SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government" apologizes for his blatant lies and forgeries (again) - what else is new anyway?
Serdar Argic
>Merhaba Elin, I may have mixed you up with a Soviet immigrant that
>got in trouble for some of his notes, if so I certainly apologize
This 'SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government crook' is nothing but a
typical Armenian idiot. But, "it" is more than that.
::>[referring to a Turk telling me in e-mail that the Ottoman
::> Turkish government
:And this 'Kane-the-pathological-liar' malaise lasted all of thirty
:seconds. I hate to further publicly humiliate you, Mr 'compulsive
:liar', but there was no "Turkish Government" prior to 1923.
>The only one you're humiliating is yourself.
That beacon of net-fraud just goes on 'blatantly lying' on the Armenian
genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people. Your fabrications looked just
like 'SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government' crap/BS. Again, where is
this magical non-existent list of scholars and scholarly sources
to back up your non-existent SDPA garbage, Mr 'compulsive liar'?
Lost in the 'Armenian Church Garbage'?
>The Ottoman Empire did indeed have a government, and it was controlled
>by Turks.
Still looking for 'Elvis' in your bathroom? That's why the 'SDPA
zoo' is a nice place for you to graze. See, you were caught blatantly
lying again. According to 99.99% of the scholars, you are a 'net-fraud'.
The following is not my idea, this is the idea of 99.99% percent of
the historians in the United States who specialize on this subject.
"From the fourteenth century until 1922, the area currently known as
Turkey, or more correctly, the Republic of Turkey, was part of the
territory encompassing the multi-national, multi-religious state known
as the Ottoman Empire. It is wrong to equate the Ottoman Empire with the
Republic of Turkey in the same way that it is wrong to equate the
Hapsburg Empire with the Republic of Austria. The Ottoman Empire, which
was brought to an end in 1922, by the successful conclusion of the
Turkish Revolution which established the present day Republic of Turkey
in 1923, incorporated lands and peoples which today account for more
than twenty-five distinct countries in Southeastern Europe, North
Africa, and the Middle East, only one of which is the Republic of
Turkey."
J. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of
the Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.
Bernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,
Princeton University.
Halil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of
the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.
Peter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.
Stanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at
Los Angeles.
Thomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research
Institute, University of Pennsylvania.
Ronald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,
University of Illinois.
Howard Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.
Dankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political
Science, City University Graduate School, New York.
John Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History,
University of Chicago.
John Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of
California at Berkeley.
Alan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.
Avigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.
Andreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California
at Los Angeles.
Kathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.
Roderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.
Walter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.
Caesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.
Tom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
Tibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.
Justin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.
Jon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).
Robert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.
Madeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.
James Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.
.......so the list goes on and on and on.....
Still have it? Your 'moronian' face, that is.
>In _Armenia, Survival of a Nation_, by Christopher Walker, Croom Helm Ltd.,
>London, 1980, we find the following:
Why not, Mr 'pathological liar'? Owhat a joy...
During World War II, while the Turkish Government was giving
asylum to many Jews fleeing from Hitler's tyranny, anti-Semitism
engulfed the Armenian circles in the Nazi-occupied territories.
A publication of the Armenian Information Service in New York,
entitled Dashnak Collaboration With The Nazi Regime, purports
to show that Armenian sympathies with racism had reached dangerous
proportions. The following quotation from the Armenian daily
Hairenik of 19, 20 and 21 August 1936 exposes something much more
than prejudice and bigotry:
''Jews being the most fanatical nationalists and race-worshippers...
are compelled to create an atmosphere..of internationalism and
world citizenship in order to preserve their race...As the
British use battleships to occupy lands..Jews use internationalism
or communism as a weapon..Sometimes it is difficult to eradicate
these poisonous elements when they have struck deep root like
a chronic disease. And when it becomes necessary for a people
to eradicate them...these attempts are regarded revolutionary.
During a surgical operation, the flow of blood is a natural
thing...Under such conditions, dictatorships seem to have a role
of saviour [1].''
In May 1935 the Armenians of Bucharest attacked the Jews of that
city, while the Greeks of Salonika attacked the Jews in the August
of the same year. During World War II, Armenian volunteers, under
the wings of Hitler's Germany, were used in rounding up Jews and
other ''undesirables'' destined for the Nazi concentration camps.
The Armenians also published a German-language magazine, with fascist
and anti-Semitic tendencies, supporting Nazi doctrines directed to
the extermination of 'inferior' races [2].
This is confirmed by Armenophil Christopher J. Walker, who admits
that the Armenians collaborated with the Nazis. According to him,
members of the Dashnak Party, then living in the occupied areas,
including a number of prominent persons, entertained pro-Axis
sympathies. A report in an American magazine went so far as to
claim that the Nazis had picked on the Dashnaktsutiun to do fifth-
column work, promising the party an autonomous state for its
cooperation. Walker goes on to claim that relations between the
Nazis and the Dashnaks living in the occupied areas were close and
active. On 30 December 1941 an Armenian battalion was formed by a
decision of the Army Command (Wehrmacht), known as the 'Armenian
812th Battalion'. It was commanded by Dro, and was made up of a
small number of committed recruits, and a larger number of Armenians.
Early on, the total number of recruits was 8,000; this number later
grew to 20,000. The 812th Battalion was operational in Crimea and
the North Caucasus.(These are the dates and numbers given by Walker[3].)
A year later, on 15 December 1942, an Armenian National Council
was granted official recognition by Alfred Rosenberg, the German
Minister of the occupied areas. The Council's president was
Professor Ardashes Abeghian, its vice-president Abraham Giulkhandanian,
and it numbered among its members Nzhdeh and Vahan Papazian. From that
date until the end of 1944 it published a weekly journal, Armenien,
edited by Viken Shant (the son of Levon), who also broadcast on Radio
Berlin. The whole idea was to prove to the Germans that the Armenians
were 'Aryans'. With the aid of Dr.Paul Rohrbach they seemed to have
achieved this as the Nazis did not persecute the Armenians in the
occupied lands [3].
[1] Quoted by James Mandalian: 'Who are the Dashnags?' Boston,
Hairenik Press, 1944, pp.13-4.
[2] Turkkaya Ataov: 'Hitler and the Armenian Question',
Ankara 1984, p.91.
[3] C.J. Walker: 'Armenia',
London, 1980, pp.356-8.
>It is quite understandable that the current Turkish government would
>want to distance itself from the Ottoman Empire which preceded it.
Not at all. That's why we demand justice for 2.5 million of our
people cold-bloodedly slaughtered by the Armenians in 1914. That's
why what we have is a demand from the fascist government of
x-Soviet Armenia to redress the wrongs that were done against
our people.
Source: "From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne" by Avetis Aharonian. The
Armenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.
p. 52 (second paragraph).
"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders
of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged
massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is
intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a file of official documents
on the table - look at this, here in December are the reports of the last
few months concerning ruined Tartar villages which my representative
Wardrop has sent me. The official Tartar communique speaks of the
destruction of 300 villages."
p. 54 (fifth paragraph).
"Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Tartars is stopped
and the three chiefs are not removed from your military leadership I
hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition."
"...it is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who
during the past months have raided and destroyed many Tartar villages in
the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar. There are
official charges of massacres."
>But do they have to be dishonest about it?
You crook don't get it - do you? The Muslim historic homeland, emptied
of its native population until today, remains occupied by the x-Soviet
Armenian Government. Today, x-Soviet Armenia covers up the genocide
perpetrated by its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this
crime against humanity. x-Soviet Armenia must pay for its crime of
genocide against the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making
reparations to the Turks and Kurds.
:>Notice Argic does not tell you about the Muslim atrocities against
:>Armenians. He presents a one-sided story to try to convince you that
:So it is your head that isn't screwed on just right.
Why did you idiot delete the rest of the Armenian sources
on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people?
I guess 'SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government' must have
fed you too much crap/BS, Mr 'pathological liar'. Five
days later that beacon of net-fraud expired. Now tell
us Mr 'compulsive liar', why did you blatantly lie on
the net about 'Bilal Simsir' and his scholarly sources
on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people?
Why did you forge the publicly available 'Western'
sources on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim
people? Why did you post your non-existent crap to cover
up the Armenian crime of genocide perpetrated against
2.5 million Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia and
Eastern Anatolia? Did you net-fraud get paid by the
fascist x-Soviet Armenian Government/SDPA to cover
up the slaughter of 2.5 million Muslim people by
the Armenians?
This is 'The Jewish Times' on the first genocide
of this century committed by your fascist Armenian
handlers' criminal grandparents against 2.5 million
of our people.
"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."
(Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)
"I killed Turks (Azeris) by every means possible. Yet
it is sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The
best way is to gather all of these dogs and throw
them into wells and then fill the wells with big &
heavy stones, as I did. I gathered all of the women,
men and children, threw big stones down on top of
them. They must never live on this earth."
--One of the architects of the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people reporting in 1918.
SOURCE: A. Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok
(Revolutionary East), No: 2-3,
Moscow, 1936
"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population
of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to
the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks."
(Mikael Kaprilian - 1919)
>the name of the man who admitted in e-mail conversation
>with me that Ottoman Turks did participate in extermination
See, you still fling your blatant lies in all directions.
There was no "Turkiye" prior to 1923. Now, where is your
non-existent list of scholars and scholarly sources to back
up your SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government BS/junk? Here is
mine:
J. C. Hurewitz, Professor of Government Emeritus, Former Director of
the Middle East Institute (1971-1984), Columbia University.
Bernard Lewis, Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern History,
Princeton University.
Halil Inalcik, University Professor of Ottoman History & Member of
the American Academy of Arts & Sciences, University of Chicago.
Peter Golden, Professor of History, Rutgers University, Newark.
Stanford Shaw, Professor of History, University of California at
Los Angeles.
Thomas Naff, Professor of History & Director, Middle East Research
Institute, University of Pennsylvania.
Ronald Jennings, Associate Professor of History & Asian Studies,
University of Illinois.
Howard Reed, Professor of History, University of Connecticut.
Dankwart Rustow, Distinguished University Professor of Political
Science, City University Graduate School, New York.
John Woods, Associate Professor of Middle Eastern History,
University of Chicago.
John Masson Smith, Jr., Professor of History, University of
California at Berkeley.
Alan Fisher, Professor of History, Michigan State University.
Avigdor Levy, Professor of History, Brandeis University.
Andreas G. E. Bodrogligetti, Professor of History, University of California
at Los Angeles.
Kathleen Burrill, Associate Professor of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.
Roderic Davison, Professor of History, George Washington University.
Walter Denny, Professor of History, University of Massachusetts.
Caesar Farah, Professor of History, University of Minnesota.
Tom Goodrich, Professor of History, Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
Tibor Halasi-Kun, Professor Emeritus of Turkish Studies, Columbia University.
Justin McCarthy, Professor of History, University of Louisville.
Jon Mandaville, Professor of History, Portland State University (Oregon).
Robert Olson, Professor of History, University of Kentucky.
Madeline Zilfi, Professor of History, University of Maryland.
James Stewart-Robinson, Professor of Turkish Studies, University of Michigan.
.......so the list goes on and on and on.....
>campaigns against Armenians from 1915 to 1923.
See, you were caught blatantly lying again.
Source: K. S. Papazian, "Patriotism Perverted," Baikar Press, Boston, 1934.
p. 25.
"We were defeated".
p. 38.
"The fact remains, however, that the leaders of the Turkish Armenian section
of the Dashnagtzoutune did not carry out their promise of loyalty to the
Turkish cause when the Turks entered the war...and a call was sent for
Armenian volunteers to fight the Turks on the Caucasian front."
p. 38.
"Thousands of Armenians from all over the world, flocked to the standards of
such famous fighters as Antranik, Kery, Dro, etc. The Armenian volunteer
regiments rendered valuable service to the Russian Army in the years of
1914-15-16."
Source: Gurun, Kamuran, "The Armenian File," Weidenfeld & Nicholsan Ltd,
London, 1985, pp. 192-193.
"Felix Valyi has written:
'In April the Armenian revolutionaries seized the town of Van, established
an Armenian `General Staff` there under the command of Aram and Vardan, which
delivered up the town to the Russian troops on the 6th of May, after having
`freed` the district of Van from Mohammedans....
Amongst the most notorious of the Armenian chiefs was Karakin Pastermadjian,
a former member of the Turkish Parliament, known by the name of `Garo`,
who put himself at the head of the Armenian volunteers at the time of the
opening of hostilities between Turkey and Russia, and the Turks accuse him
of having set fire to all the Mussulman villages he found on his way and
of massacring their inhabitants. It is known that the attempts made by
Turkey to win the support of the `Dachnakzoutioun` party against Russia at
the beginning of the War were repulsed in the month of September, 1914,
by the Armenian Congress at Erzurum, which declared itself `neutral`.
Nevertheless the thousands of Russian bombs and muskets which were found
in the hands of its members prove what this neutrality meant....'"
Extracts from the November 1914 issue of the "official Armenian Gazette
Huntchak," published in Paris, France, by the Armenian Revolutionary
Committee of the "Armenian Nation." This was a "call to Turkish Genocide."
"...The entire Armenian nation will join forces, moral and material,
and waving the sword of revolution, will enter this World conflict...
as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly Russia.
They will cooperate with the allies, making full use of all political
and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia,
Caucasus, Azerbayjan...heroes who will sacrifice their lives for the
great cause of Armenia...Armenians proud to shed their blood for the
cause of Armenia..."
Extracts from a letter dated January 27, 1918, and published in the
London Times on January 30, 1918, signed by Boghos Nubar, the recognized
leader of the Armenian Revolutionary Committee Huntchak to the peace
conference at which the treaty between Turkey and the allies was signed
in Lauzanne, Switzerland.
"............The fact well known only to a few that ever since the
beginning of the war, Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on
all fronts...Armenians have been belligerents 'de facto' since their
indignant refusal to side with the Turks...our volunteers fought in
Syria and Palestine (at the time part of the Ottoman Empire) in the
decisive victory of General Allenby...After the breakdown of Russia,
the Armenian legions were the only forces to resist their advances of
the Turks whom they held in check until the armistice was signed. Thus
they helped the British forces in Mesopotamia (at the time also part
of the Ottoman Empire) by hindering the German/Turkish forces from
sending troops elsewhere."
Extracts from the manifesto, delivered by Hovhanes Katchazouni, prime
minister of the Armenian Republic (established after the first World
War) at the convention of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, in
Bucharest, Romania, July 1923. This was the nature of a report.
"...in the fall of 1914, when Turkey had not yet entered the war but
was already making preparations, Armenian revolutionary bands began to
form with great enthusiasm...The Armenian Revolutionary Federation had
active participation in the formation of these bands and the military
action against Turkey...This was an inevitable result of the
psychology on which the Armenian Nation had been nourished during an
entire generation...the winter of 1914 and the spring of 1915 were
periods of great activity, greatest enthusiasm and hopes...We had no
doubt that the war would end with complete victory for the Allies and
Turkey would be defeated and dismembered, and its Armenian population
would at least be liberated...We had embraced Russia wholeheartedly
without any compunction... we believed that the Tsarist government
would grant us self government in the Caucasus and in the Armenian
vilayets (Turkish provinces where many Armenians resided), liberated
from Turkey, as a reward for our loyalty, our efforts and our
assistance. Unfortunately Russia did not keep its word..."
>His name is:
>Burak Epir (ig...@vaxb.acs.unt.edu)
>Of course, we've seen Erol Esen publicly admit this, too.
Oboy, oboy, oboy. You net-fraud are counting on a self-admitted/
exposed 'portakalian' to prove something for you? No wonder that
idiot even denies the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people.
Ditto.
While still anxiously awaiting for 'esen' to visit a library and
obtain the following scholarly sources on the Armenian genocide
of 2.5 million Muslim people...
What is the deal here, 'esen'?
And referring to notes from the personal diary of Russian General L.
Odishe Liyetze on the Turkish front, he wrote,
"On the nights 11-12 March, 1918 alone Armenian butchers bayoneted
and axed to death Muslim people in areas surrounding Erzincan. These
barbars threw their victims into pits, most likely dug according to
their sinister plans to extinguish Muslims, in groups of 80. My adjutant
counted and unearthed 200 such pits. This is an act against our world
of civilization."
On March 12, 1918 Lieut-colonel Griyaznof wrote (from an official
Russian account of the Turkish genocide),
"Roads leading to villages were littered with bayoneted torsos,
dismembered joints and carved out organs of Muslim peasants...
alas! mainly of women and children."
"The killings were organized by the doctors and the employers, and
the act of killing was committed solely by the Armenian renegades...
Large holes were dug and the defenceless Turks were slaughtered like
animals next to the holes. Later, the murdered Turks were thrown into
the holes. The Armenian who stood near the hole would say when the
hole was filled with the corpses: 'Seventy dead bodies, well, this
hole can take ten more.' Thus ten more Turks would be cut into pieces,
thrown into the hole, and when the hole was full it would be covered
over with soil.
The Armenians responsible for the act of murdering would frequently
fill a house with eighty Turks, and cut their heads off one by one.
Following the Erzincan massacre, the Armenians began to withdraw
towards Erzurum... The Armenian renegades among those who withdrew
to Erzurum from Erzincan raided the Moslem villages on the road, and
destroyed the entire population, together with the villages."
Enjoy it...
How could anyone? Even Armenian scholars, including Varandian, Kaprielian
and Ohannessian, admit the fact that Armenians exterminated 2.5 million
Muslim people because of race, religion and national origin.
Here is 'Varandian' again (at the beginning of third paragraph):
"The first aim of the Dashnaktsutiun was the instigation of internal revolt.
It was hoped that this would lead to the same results as had been achieved
in Bulgaria and the Lebanon."[1]
[1] M. Varandian, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun," p. 85.
And stick around, more to come.
>If you don't mind I will check these sources you have provided.
At least, you have started to learn 'something' from Oflazer, Akman,
Mutlu, Vedat, Ismet, Cosar, Parlakbilek and other scholars. Anxiously
awaiting...
>And if they are there then
'If'? We will carefully examine them together and step-by-step because it
is always a pleasure to repeatedly expose the crimes of the ASALA/SDPA/ARF
idiots/crooks in public. First, I must provide you with the paragraph
numbers of the quotes that I have failed to include in my earlier posting,
though (given your level of understanding). Would you mind? In the meantime,
please locate a library and the following sources. Deal?
Source #1: M. Varandian, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun," p. 85.
(At the end of second paragraph)
'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in
whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children
also should be killed as they form a danger to the
Armenian nation.'
Source #2: Esat Uras, "The Armenians in History," Documentary
Publications (Istanbul), 1987.
p. 695.
(At the beginning of third paragraph - a total of three lines)
"The slogan of the Armenians ran:
'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them and in
whatever circumstances you find them. Turkish children
also should be killed as they form a danger to the
Armenian nation.'"
Source #3: (left as a homework problem for you clown - please locate
the page number?)
Leading the first Armenian units who crossed the Ottoman border in the
company of the Russian invaders was the former Ottoman Parliamentary
representative for Erzurum, Karekin Pastirmaciyan, who now assumed the
revolutionary name Armen Garo. Another former Ottoman parliamentarian,
Hamparsum Boyaciyan, led the Armenian guerrilla forces who ravaged
Turkish villages behind the lines under the nickname "Murad", especially
ordering that
"Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the
Armenian nation."
Another former Member of Parliament, Papazyan, led the Armenian
guerrilla forces that ravaged the areas of Van, Bitlis and Mush.
In March 1915, the Russian forces began to move toward Van. Immediately,
in April 11, 1915 the Armenians of Van began a revolt, massacring all
the Turks in the vicinity so as to make possible its quick and easy
conquest by Russians. Little wonder that Czar Nicholas II sent a
telegram of thanks to the Armenian Revolutionary Committee of Van in
April 21, 1915, "thanking it for its services to Russia." The Armenian
newspaper Gochnak, published in the United States, also proudly
reported in May 24, 1915 that
"only 1,500 Turks remained in Van the rest having been slaughtered."
>I'll question those who accuse you of making this stuff up.
So you clown 'are' for real.
<1991Jan10.1...@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>
ah...@eecg.toronto.edu (Parlakbilek Ahmet)
Subject: YALANCI, LIAR : DAVIDIAN
Keywords: Davidian, the biggest liar
>From: d...@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
>Message-ID: <11...@urartu.SDPA.org>
>In article <1991Jan4.1...@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ah...@eecg.toronto.
>edu (Ahmet Parlakbilek) asked a simple question:
>[AP] I am asking you to show me one example in which mutlu,coras or any other
>[AP] Turk was proven to lie.I can show tens of lies and fabrications of
>[AP] Davidian, like changing quote , even changing name of a book, Anna.
>The obvious ridiculous "Armenians murdered 3 million Moslems" is the most
>outragious and unsubstantiated charge of all. You are obviously new on this
>net, so read the following sample -- not one, but three proven lies in one
>day!
> - - - start yalanci.txt - - -
[some parts are deleted]
>In article <1990Aug5.1...@cbnewsd.att.com> the usenet scribe for the
>Turkish Historical Society, h...@cbnewsd.att.com (hasan.b.mutlu), continues to
>revise the history of the Armenian people. Let's witness the operational
>definition of a revisionist yalanci (or liar, in Turkish):
>[Yalanci] According to Leo:[1]
>[Yalanci]
>[Yalanci] "The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks
>[Yalanci] and on the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding
>[Yalanci] their own affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed,
>[Yalanci] the war was actually being waged between the Committee of
>[Yalanci] Dashnaktsutiun and the Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and
>[Yalanci] savage war in defense of party political interests. The Dashnaks
>[Yalanci] incited revolts which relied on Russian bayonets for their success."
>[Yalanci]
>[Yalanci] [1] L. Kuper, "Genocide: Its Political Use in the Twentieth Century,"
>[Yalanci] New York 1981, p. 157.
>This text is available not only in most bookstores but in many libraries. On
>page 157 we find a discussion of related atrocities (which is title of the
>chapter). The topic on this page concerns itself with submissions to the Sub-
>Commission on Prevention of Discrimination of Minorities of the Commission on
>Human Rights of the United Nations with respect to the massacres in Cambodia.
>There is no mention of Turks nor Armenians as claimed above.
- - -
>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!
>The depth of foolishness the Turkish Historical Society engages in, while
>covering up the Turkish genocide of the Armenians, is only surpassed by the
>ridiculous "historical" material publicly displayed!
>David Davidian <d...@urartu.SDPA.org> | The life of a people is a sea, and
Receiving this message, I checked the reference, L.Kuper,"Genocide..." and
what I have found was totally consistent with what Davidian said.The book
was like "voice of Armenian revolutionists" and although I read the whole book,
I could not find the original quota.
But there was one more thing to check:The original posting of Mutlu.I found
the original article of Mutlu.It is as follows:
> According to Leo:[1]
>"The situation is clear. On one side, we have peace-loving Turks and on
> the other side, peace-loving Armenians, both sides minding their own
> affairs. Then all was submerged in blood and fire. Indeed, the war was
> actually being waged between the Committee of Dashnaktsutiun and the
> Society of Ittihad and Terakki - a cruel and savage war in defense of party
> political interests. The Dashnaks incited revolts which relied on Russian
> bayonets for their success."
>[1] B. A. Leo. "The Ideology of the Armenian Revolution in Turkey," vol II,
======================================================================
> p. 157.
======
QUATO IS THE SAME, REFERENCE IS DIFFERENT !
DAVIDIAN LIED AGAIN, AND THIS TIME HE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL POSTING OF MUTLU
JUST TO ACCUSE HIM TO BE A LIAR.
Davidian, thank you for writing the page number correctly...
You are the biggest liar I have ever seen.This example showed me that tomorrow
you can lie again, and you may try to make me a liar this time.So I decided
not to read your articles and not to write answers to you.I also advise
all the netters to do the same.We can not prevent your lies, but at least
we may save time by not dealing with your lies.
And for the following line:
>Vay sarsak, vay yobaz, vay yalanci! Vay Turk milletinin yuz karasi Mutlu vay!
I also return all the insults you wrote about Mutlu to you.
I hope you will be drowned in your lies.
Ahmet PARLAKBILEK
<1991Jan11.0...@cs.umn.edu>
co...@tera.cs.umn.edu (A.Coras)
Keywords: Fake-Quote by David Davidian
>From: d...@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
>Subject: Davidian Addressing Accusations I
[AC] >From: d...@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
[AC] >Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
[AC] dd>According to Esat Uras [1], 2,345 Armenians were removed from Istanbul
[AC] dd>on April 24-26, 1915 and were murdered. Go get the book, Uras has been
[AC] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[AC] Where did you find the "1915 AND WERE MURDERED" LIAR David Davidian?
[AC] >From a text you don't have! Besides I have Yale University to back me up!
[AC]
[AC] Who says that I don't have the "text"? Here is the Turkish Text:
[AC]
[AC] Source: Esat Uras, "Tarihte Ermeniler ve Ermeni Meselesi," Belge
[AC] Yayinlari, 1976 (2nd Edition).
[AC]
[AC] p. 612.
[AC]
[AC] "Bununla beraber Istanbul'da oturan 77,735 Ermeniden soz konusu olan
[AC] ihtilallere katilmaktan sanik olarak yalniz 2345 kisi tutuklanip,
[AC] digerlerinin huzur ve rahatla is ve gucleriyle mesgul olduklari ve
[AC] buyuk bir guvenlik icinde yasadiklari goz onune alinirsa, bu
[AC] tedbirlerin herhalde gerekli oldugu ve Ermenilere karsi hicbir hareket
[AC] anlamini tasimadigi meydana cikar."
[AC]
[AC] in English:
[AC]
[AC] However, considering the fact that only 2345 of the 77,735
[AC] Armenians living in Istanbul were arrested because of joining
[AC] the mentioned revolutions, and the others have been living and
[AC] continuing their activities with peace and comfort in a
[AC] great security, it becomes clear that these precautions
[AC] were necessary and was not a move against Armenians [as a nation]
[AC] Where did you find the "1915 AND WERE MURDERED" David Davidian? Or are
[AC] you a Liar?
>No liar. Based on your source, you are simply correct for Uras directly wrote
>that 2,345 Armenian were arrested (tutuklamak). Those Armenians were deported
>and eventually murdered. Note, I didn't add quotations around the text
Where did you find the "eventually murdered" Davidian? Any sources, references?
>associated with Uras. He simply supported my contention that Armenians from
Now trying to twist after claiming that it was true by giving it with a
reference to Esat Uras. Why did you, then, give it with a reference to
Esat Uras? You little duckling, and why did it take you so long to say that
it was not a quote from Esat Uras? Why didn't you accept it 1 month before
when I first asked it. Why did you prefer to say that:
>From: d...@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast
>Subject: Read Before You Write - You Looked in the Wrong Book!
>Keywords: Turkish Re-Write of History
>Message-ID: <11...@urartu.SDPA.org>
>Date: 21 Dec 90 15:26:31 GMT
Now, tell me Davidian. Which one is trying to Re-Write history? Which one is
playing around quotes? Which one is quoting non-existing quotes? Which one
is adding "1915 and were murdered" and when caught on revision, trying to
escape saying that "I didn't put it in quotes"? You insisted that it was
"correct". You gave "correct" references for me to find, and now you say
"it was not a quote"? You are a truly a very low life form Davidian.
>Istanbul were arrested, deported and were murdered. Read my original postings
>with the 1988 English version of Uras's text. You were so zealous in your
>attempt to discredit me, you forgot the original purpose of our "discussion"!
Original purpose? I am only exposing your lies, that's all. It is a very
simple task, I go and check everything you say and find your lies.
>I showed that Istanbul Armenians were indeed deported during the genocide. You
Only 2345 out of 77,735 , and those who were involved in revolutions.
>spent so much time calling me a liar, you forgot to address the real issue! If
Why? Didn't I expose your lies? Isn't that an issue for you? Who are you?
Aren't you the Davidian that I have been exposing his lies for one month?
>you recall, Cosar, you asked me to prove that Armenians from Istanbul were
>removed...and I did, but you never provided a refutation.
"Removed"? Where did you get it? They were arrested that's all in those
paragraphs, where did you find the "rest"? Please give me the reference
and quote.
>In contrast, however, I did include quotes around the following text:
> On December 7th, 1915 the German Ambassador Metternich informed Berlin
> that 4,000 Armenians have been deported from Istanbul and that the total
> up to that time was 30,000 deported and that "gradually a clean sweep will
> be made of the remaining 80,000 Armenians of the Ottoman capital".
This contradicts with your Esat Uras paragraph. Which one do you believe in?
How could 30,000 Armenians out of 77,735 be deported and still 80,000 of
them remain? Aren't you again a little bit off mathematics?
>Turkish source, meaning it from "your side" -- not mine), what about the
>30,000 "already deported", and another "4,000", etc., from the German source?
Tell me about the Armenian population in Istanbul, with references and quotes,
then I will give you another lecture on mathematics, ok?
[AC] Himm, a typical example of Rewriting-History. When the original document
[AC] does not support you, have it translated to English by an "independent
[AC] Armenian Translator" and then use it to support your lies.
>Again, Cosar, you are so much of a zealot, still after my pants, you failed to
We saw the one after pants, didn't we?
>note that I have nothing to do with the Yale Journal, nor do Armenians. I
How about Dadrian? Or better "Dadrain"?
>never mentioned about translations, the Yale Journal is in English.
Yokh yav? Thanks for the info.
[AC] > "The accuracy of the sources used in this article was verified by
[AC] > an independent translator jointly hired by the Yale Journal of
[AC] > International Law and Professor Dadrain (the author). The Journal
[AC] > ^^^^^^^
[AC] > took this unprecedented step because the location of the sources
[AC] > and the variety of foreign languages in which the material appear
[AC] > made an exhaustive review by the Journal staff impossible.
[AC] I think you mean "Dadrian", don't you? Are we again trying to hide the
[AC] Armenian-Connection Mr. Davidian?
>No Cosar, it's called a typographical error. If you get a copy of Yale Journal
If this "typo" is done by someone who "forgets" to put quotes around his
quotes, then claims them to be true for one month and then say, "Oh, I did
not put quotes around them", then one better suspect.
>you will read Dadrian. I am not hiding anything. In contrast, in TEL you
Who, you? The one who claimed his "fake-quote" as true for one month?
>claimed that Cosar is your real name, not Coras!
Why are you interested in my "real" name?
>And once again, Cosar, your zealousness helped prove my point, and as a bonus
>you contradicted yourself and Professor Justin McCarthy, as follows:
Justin McCarthy? What are you talking about Davidian? Have you begun losing
your mind? May be I shouldn't have hit your head so strong, sorry if it
caused some permanent damage.
>I was referring to page 266 in the Yale Journal! -- which says "eventually
>executed" - note: the quotes.
Please give this quote Davidian, I will anyway get a copy of this issue,
but I want you to quote it yourself, will you?
>You fell into the same trap I had caught another fool in via email! You spent
Who is this fool? Give me his name. May be someone that we know ha?
Tell me who is this fool caught by your "lies"?
>so much time fighting the battle -- calling me a liar -- you lost the war! By
Again? Who made you the "referee"? Who counted the scores? What game were we
playing? The one who tells more "lies" wins! Was this the name of the game?
BTW, aren't you a little optimistic with fake-quotes, fake-references and
and a fake-translation at hand made in 1990?
>the way, can you read German?
>Now, I request you to FAX me a copy of page 612 and the copyright page of YOUR
>Uras's text. My work FAX number is (508) 872-8692. Thank you.
First you please, send a copy your Yale journal at the below address(No bombs
please, there are 600 more people living there):
Ahmet Cosar
Computer Science Department
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN 55455
>David Davidian <d...@urartu.SDPA.org ...maybe next year!
Belki yarin, belki yarindan da yakin.
A.Coras
>What will it take to get Argic to admit it?
A self-exposed/admitted pathological liar? Anyway, despite the
genocidal policy of the x-Soviet Armenian Government, during
the 78 years following the genocide, in a small portion of
Turkish historic lands there exists a Turkish Karabag in the
diaspora, the dispersed Turkish and Kurdish communities lifting
themselves from their refugee status, have become strongholds of
Turkish and Kurdish culture and national aspirations. They have,
by their existence, transformed the Muslim Question into a political
demand - the Turkish and Kurdish Case.
On this occasion, we once again reiterate the unquestioned
justice of the restitution of Turkish and Kurdish rights and...
- We demand that the x-Soviet Armenian Government admit its
responsibility for the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, render
reparations to the Muslim people, and return the land to its
rightful owners. The recognition of the Genocide has become an
issue which cannot be delayed further, and it is imperative that
artificial obstacles created for political manipulations be removed.
- We believe the time has come to demand from the the United States
that it formally recognizes the Turkish and Kurdish Genocide, adopts
the principles of our demands and refuses to accede to Armenian pressures
to the contrary.
- As taxpayers of the United States, we express our vehement
protest to the present U.S. Government policy of continued
coddling, protection and unqualified assistance towards x-Soviet
Armenia.
- We also demand that the United States return to the policies
advocated by Admiral Bristol and other enlightened statesmen,
who have undertaken a just, human and benevolent attitude
towards the rights of the Turkish and Kurdish people and the
just resolution of their Case.
- Our territorial demands are strictly aimed at x-Soviet Armenia's.
For nearly one thousand years, the Turkish and Kurdish people
lived on their homeland. The persecutions culminated in 1914:
The x-Soviet Armenian Government planned and carried out a
Genocide against its Muslim subjects. 2.5 million Turks and
Kurds were murdered and the remainder driven out of their
homeland. After one thousand years, Turkish and Kurdish lands
were empty of Turks and Kurds.
The survivors found a safe heaven in Turkiye.
Today, x-Soviet Armenian government rejects the right of Turks and
Kurds to return to their Muslim lands occupied by x-Soviet Armenia.
Today, x-Soviet Armenian government covers up the genocide perpetrated
by its predecessors and is therefore an accessory to this crime against
humanity.
x-Soviet Armenian government must pay for their crime of genocide
against the Muslims by admitting to the crime and making reparations
to the Turks and Kurds.
Turks and Kurds demand the right to return to their lands, to determine
their own future as a nation in their own homeland.
>And the most unbelievable thing that Argic does
>is quote out of Rawlinson, and Walker---as if these
>were proof of the Turks innocence.
You are the 'most idiot net-fraud' sct has ever seen. Remember,
Mr 'pathological liar', x-Soviet Armenian government got away with
the genocide of 2.5 million Muslim men, women and children and is
enjoying the fruits of that genocide. You, and those like you, will
not get away with the genocide's cover-up. Not a chance.
Source: "Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape,
30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).
(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
p. 178 (first paragraph)
"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for
arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such
search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures
had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where
valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the
existence, although they had been unable to find them."
p. 175 (first paragraph)
"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement
that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the
Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the
British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation
commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced
the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the
pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.
In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able
to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will
be referred to in due course."
Well, still anxiously awaiting...
:::Come again? How could anyone document 'a figment of your imagination
:::and SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government fabrications/non-existent crap'?
::>That's not what a fellow Turkish man told me in e-mail.
::Clear as mud. Who says genocide apologists are no damn good? Armenians
::themselves amply admitted and bragged about their crime of genocide
::they perpetrated against 2.5 million Muslim people in x-Soviet Armenia
::and Eastern Anatolia in 1914. Why do you genocide apologist deny it now?
:>Your fanaticism is muddling your comprehension abilities.
:Coming from a self-admitted/exposed compulsive liar who has just
:blatantly lied about 'Bilal Simsir', I'd take that as a compliment.
>You know I wasn't lying.
And best of all, I have the recipe for your blatant lies, fabrications
and SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian Government forgeries. Here it is:
"The Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878 was the biggest disaster ever known
in the Ottoman-Turkish history. During that war nearly four hundred
thousands Rumelian Turks were massacred. About a million of them who
fled before the invading Russian armies took refugee in the Thrace,
Istanbul and Western Anatolia.[9] The Russian invasion of eastern provinces
of Anatolia too was a real calamity for the Turkish-Muslim people of the
region.
The War of 1877-78 affected also the Armenian minority in Turkey, but in a
different way. In some remote parts of Anatolia, Armenian armed bands took
advantage of the absence of all able-bodied Turkish men and troops, and,
attacked unprotected peaceful Muslim villages. Such was the case, for
instance, in the Zeitoun region where Armenians, under the brigand Chief
Babek, attacked and looted the settlements of the neighbouring Yuruk tribes
and the Turkish villages of Lisne, Kenbul, etc. and killed unoffensive
people.[10]
[9] For details see: Bilal N. Simsir, "Turkish Emigrations from the Balkans.
Documents. Vol. I: A Turkish Exodus (1877-1878): Vol. II: A Year of
Transition (1879)," Ankara: 1968-1970.
[10] Turkey No. I (1880): "Correspondence Respecting the Commission sent by
the Porte to Inquire into the Condition of the Vilayet of Aleppo,"
London: 1880, No. 831.
p. 6.
"While Armenian merchants and shop-keepers were doing good business during
the Russian occupation, other Armenians in the Eastern regions of Anatolia
collaborated with the invading Russian armies. The Russian officers of
Armenian origin, such as Lieutenant-General Lazareff at Kars and Major
Kamsaragan at Erzurum, encouraged the local Armenians to enter Russian
service and played a certain role in obtaining their collaboration. Major
Kamsaragan, former Russian acting Consul of Erzurum, became the Chief of
the Police of the town during the Russian occupation...The presence
of the Russians in the region encouraged those Armenian collaborators to
maltreat their Turkish neighbors. Captain Trotter, the British Military
Consul at Erzurum, reported: 'There is no doubt that during the Russian
occupation the Armenians, who had been enrolled in the local police,
took advantage of the opportunity to abuse and maltreat the Mussulmans.
This has been admitted to me by the Russian acting Vice Consul...'[12]"
[12] F.O. 424/77, No. 114; Turkey No. 54 (1878), No. 355; Turkey No. 10
(1879), No. I.
p. 19.
"...these Armenian mountaineers revolted again under the brigand Chief
Babek, by attacking neighbouring Turkish villages and tribes...Then they
looted several Mussulman villages....to find the mosque and government
buildings in flame..."
>Having explained that all books have been
>filed in the on-line catalog under "Armenian Genocide",
You mean the 'Armenian genocide of the Muslim people in x-Soviet
Armenia and Eastern Anatolia in 1914'. So you ended up in the 'SDPA/
x-Soviet Armenian junk yard'. Now you have landed on the right planet.
Between 1914 and 1920, 2.5 million Muslims perished of butchery at the
hands of Armenians. The genocide involved not only the killing of
innocents but their forcible deportation from the Russian Armenia.
They were persecuted, banished, and slaughtered while much of Muslim
Army was engaged in World War I. The Genocide Treaty defines genocide
as acting with a
'specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a
national, ethnic, racial or religious group.'
History shows that the x-Soviet Armenian Government intended to eradicate
the Muslim population. 2.5 million Turks and Kurds were exterminated by the
Armenians. International diplomats in Ottoman Empire at the time - including
U.S. Ambassador Bristol - denounced the x-Soviet Armenian Government's policy
as a massacre of the Kurds, Turks, and Tartars. The blood-thirsty leaders of
the x-Soviet Armenian Government at the time personally involved in the
extermination of the Muslims. The Turkish genocide museums in Turkiye honor
those who died during the Turkish massacres perpetrated by the Armenians.
The eyewitness accounts and the historical documents established,
beyond any doubt, that the massacres against the Muslim people
during the war were planned and premeditated. The aim of the policy
was clearly the extermination of all Turks in x-Soviet Armenian
territories.
The Muslims of Van, Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum and Erzincan districts and
their wives and children have been taken to the mountains and killed.
The massacres in Trabzon, Tercan, Yozgat and Adana were organized and
perpetrated by the blood-thirsty leaders of the x-Soviet Armenian
Government.
The principal organizers of the slaughter of innocent Muslims were
Dro, Antranik, Armen Garo, Hamarosp, Daro Pastirmadjian, Keri,
Karakin, Haig Pajise-liantz and Silikian.
Source: "Bristol Papers", General Correspondence: Container #32 - Bristol
to Bradley Letter of September 14, 1920.
"I have it from absolute first-hand information that the Armenians in
the Caucasus attacked Tartar (Turkish) villages that are utterly
defenseless and bombarded these villages with artillery and they murder
the inhabitants, pillage the village and often burn the village."
>all but
>that one detailed Armenian VICTIMS.
What a piece of crap...See, you were caught blatantly lying again.
Source: "From Sardarapat to Sevres and Lausanne" by Avetis Aharonian. The
Armenian Review, Vol. 16, No. 3-63, Autumn, Sep. 1963, pp. 47-57.
p. 52 (second paragraph).
"Your three chiefs, Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian are the ringleaders
of the bands which have destroyed Tartar villages and have staged
massacres in Zangezour, Surmali, Etchmiadzin, and Zangibasar. This is
intolerable. Look - and here he pointed to a file of official documents
on the table - look at this, here in December are the reports of the last
few months concerning ruined Tartar villages which my representative
Wardrop has sent me. The official Tartar communique speaks of the
destruction of 300 villages."
p. 54 (fifth paragraph).
"Yes, of course. I repeat, until this massacre of the Tartars is stopped
and the three chiefs are not removed from your military leadership I
hardly think we can supply you arms and ammunition."
"...it is the armed bands led by Dro, Hamazasp and Kulkhandanian who
during the past months have raided and destroyed many Tartar villages in
the regions of Surmali, Etchmiadzin, Zangezour, and Zangibasar. There are
official charges of massacres."
>I find it very suspicious that
>the Turkish government produced this information only AFTER Armenian
>terrorism in the 1970s.
Obrother. This is becoming 'swell'. Did you miss our letters?
Today marks the 78th anniversary of the Armenian genocide of
2.5 million Turks and Kurds in Eastern Anatolia and x-Soviet
Armenia. The following letter, which represents a small portion
of the full text, along with more than 200 pages of historical
documents, scholarly sources, eyewitness accounts and photographs,
was sent to President Bill Clinton, members of Congress, editors,
program directors and columnists of major newspapers, journals and
radio/TV stations for the 78th anniversary of the Armenian genocide
of 2.5 million Muslim people. On April 23 of every year, the people
of Turkiye remember their dead. They grieve for lost family and the
lost homes of their grandfathers. This year the Turkish Nation is
mourning and praying again for her fallen heroes who gave their
lives generously and with altruism, so that the future generations
may live on that anointed soil of the Turkish land happily and
prosperously.
------------------------- letter ----------------------------------
During the years of World War I, the x-Soviet Armenian Government
has planned and perpetrated the 'Genocide' of the Muslim people, which
not only took the lives of 2.5 million Muslim people, but was also the
method used to empty the Turkish homeland of its inhabitants. To this day,
Turkish historic lands remain occupied by the x-Soviet Armenia. In order
to cover up the fact of its usurpation of the historic Turkish homeland,
which is the crux of Turkish political demands, fascist x-Soviet Armenia
continues its anti-Turkish policy in the following ways:
1. x-Soviet Armenia denies the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide
in order to shift international public opinion away from its political
responsibility.
2. x-Soviet Armenia, employing ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism
Triangle, attempts to call into question the veracity of the Turkish
Genocide.
3. x-Soviet Armenia has also implemented state-sponsored terrorism through
the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle in an attempt to
silence the Turkish people's vehement demands and protests.
4. Using all its human, financial, and governmental resources, x-Soviet
Armenia and its tools in the United States attempt to silence through
terrorism, bribery and other subversive methods, non-Turkish supporters
of the Turkish cause, be they political, governmental and humanitarian.
Using all the aforementioned methods, the x-Soviet Armenian Government
is attempting to neutralize the international diplomatic community from
making the Turkish Case a contemporary issue.
Yet despite the efforts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its
terrorist and revisionist organizations, in the last decades, thanks
to the struggle of those whose closest ones have been systematically
exterminated by the Armenians, the international wall of silence on
this issue has begun to collapse, and consequently a number of
governments and organizations have become supportive of the recognition
of the Turkish Genocide.
With the full knowledge that the struggle for the Turkish territorial
demands are still in their initial stages, the Turkish and Kurdish people
will unflaggingly continue in this sacred struggle, therefore the victims
of the Turkish Genocide demand:
1. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government, as the heirs of the Armenian
Dictatorship, recognize the Turkish Genocide;
2. that x-Soviet Armenia return the historic homeland to the Turkish and
Kurdish people;
3. that the x-Soviet Armenian Government make material reparations for
their heinous and unspeakable crime to the victims of the Turkish Genocide;
4. that all world governments, and especially the United States, officially
recognize the Turkish Genocide and Turkish territorial rights and refuse
to succumb to all Armenian political pressure;
5. that the U.S. Government free itself from the friendly position it
has adopted towards its unreliable ally, x-Soviet Armenia, and officially
recognize the historical fact of the Turkish Genocide as well as be
supportive of the pursuit of Turkish territorial demands;
6. that the x-Soviet Republics officially recognize the historical fact
of the Turkish Genocide and include the cold-blooded extermination of
2.5 million Muslim people in their history books.
The awareness of the Turkish people of the necessity of solidarity in the
efforts to pursue the Turkish Cause is seen by the victims of the first
genocide of the 20th century as a positive step. Furthermore, a new
generation has risen - equipped with a deep sense of commitment, politically
mature and conscious, who determinedly pursue the Turkish Cause, through
all necessary means, ranging from the political and diplomatic to the
armed struggle. Therefore, the victims of the Turkish Genocide call upon
all Muslims in the United States and Canada to participate vigorously in
the political, cultural and religious activities of the 78th Anniversary
of the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people.
>How are we to believe that all the Turkish documentation is not
>forgery and hoax?
You crook don't get it - do you? These are 'non-Turkish' scholars
and sources on the Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people.
A typical brainless creature.
And the year is 1914:
Source: "Adventures in the Near East" by A. Rawlinson, Jonathan Cape,
30 Bedford Square, London, 1934 (First published 1923) (287 pages).
(Memoirs of a British officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
p. 178 (first paragraph)
"In those Moslem villages in the plain below which had been searched for
arms by the Armenians everything had been taken under the cloak of such
search, and not only had many Moslems been killed, but horrible tortures
had been inflicted in the endeavour to obtain information as to where
valuables had been hidden, of which the Armenians were aware of the
existence, although they had been unable to find them."
p. 175 (first paragraph)
"The arrival of this British brigade was followed by the announcement
that Kars Province had been allotted by the Supreme Council of the
Allies to the Armenians, and that announcement having been made, the
British troops were then completely withdrawn, and Armenian occupation
commenced. Hence all the trouble; for the Armenians at once commenced
the wholesale robbery and persecution of the Muslem population on the
pretext that it was necessary forcibly to deprive them of their arms.
In the portion of the province which lies in the plains they were able
to carry out their purpose, and the manner in which this was done will
be referred to in due course."
Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers,
Inc., New York (1952).
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5
million Muslim people)
p. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).
'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'
'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'
'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'
"We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....
'I don't believe you," I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The
man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse.
I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and
went inside.
The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for
its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an
iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black
with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As
the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face
up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what
was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted,
as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so
I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his
slashed genitals."
p. 363 (first paragraph).
'How many people lived there?'
'Oh, about eight hundred.' He yawned.
'Did you see any Turk officers?'
'No, sir. I was in at dawn. All were Tartar civilians in mufti.'
"The lieutenant dozed off, then I, but in the small hours a voice woke me -
Dro's. He stood in the starlight bawling out an officer. Anyone keelhauled
so long and furiously I'd never heard. Then abruptly Dro broke into
laughter, quick and simple as child's. Both were a cover for his sense
of guilt, I thought, or hoped. For somehow, despite my boast of irreligion,
Christian massacring 'infidels' was more horrible than the reverse would
have been.
From daybreak on, Armenian villagers poured in from miles around.....
The women plundered happily, chattering like ravens as they picked over
the carcass of Djul. They hauled out every hovel's chattels, the last
scrap of food or cloth, and staggered away, packing pots, saddlebags,
looms, even spinning-wheels.
'Thank you for a lot, Dro,' I said to him back in camp. 'But now I must
leave.'...We shook hands, the captain said 'A bientot, mon camarade.' And
for hours the old Molokan scout and I plodded north across parching plains.
Like Lot's wife I looked back once to see smoke bathing all, doubtless in
a sack of other Moslem villages up to the line of snow that was Iran.'"
p. 354.
"At morning tea, Dro and his officers spread out a map of this whole
high region called the Karabakh. Deep in tactics, they spoke Russian,
but I got their contempt for Allied 'neutral' zones and their distrust
of promises made by tribal chiefs. A campaign shaped; more raids on
Moslem villages."
p. 358.
"It will be three hours to take," Dro told me. We'd close in on three
sides.
"The men on foot will not shoot, but use only the bayonets," Merrimanov
said, jabbing a rifle in dumbshow.
"That is for morale," Dro put in. "We must keep the Moslems in terror."
"Soldiers or civilians?" I asked.
"There is no difference," said Dro. "All are armed, in uniform or not."
"But the women and children?"
"Will fly with the others as best they may."
p. 360.
"The ridges circled a wide expanse, its floors still. Hundreds of feet
down, the fog held, solid as cotton flock. 'Djul lies under that,' said
Dro, pointing. 'Our men also attack from the other sides.'
Then, 'Whee-ee!' - his whistle lined up all at the rock edge. Bayonets
clicked upon carbines. Over plunged Archo, his black haunches rippling;
then followed the staff, the horde - nose to tail, bellies taking the
spur. Armenia in action seemed more like a pageant than war, even though
I heard our Utica brass roar.
As I watched from the height, it took ages for Djul to show clear. A tsing
of machine-gun fire took over from the thumping batteries; cattle lowed,
dogs barked, invisible, while I ate a hunk of cheese and drank from a snow
puddle. Mist at last folded upward as men shouted, at first heard faintly.
The came a shrill wailing.
Now among the cloud-streaks rose darker wisps - smoke. Red glimmered about
house walls of stone or wattle, into dry weeds on roofs. A mosque stood in
clump of trees, thick and green. Through crooked alleys on fire, horsemen
were galloping after figures both mounted and on foot.
'Tartarski!' shouted the gunner by me. Others pantomimed them in escape
over the rocks, while one twisted a bronze shell-nose, loaded, and yanked
breech-cord, firing again and again. Shots wasted, I thought, when by
afternoon I looked in vain for fallen branch or body. But these shots and
the white bursts of shrapnel in the gullies drowned the women's cries.
At length all shooting petered out. I got on my horse and rode down toward
Djul. It burned still but little flame showed now. The way was steep and
tough, through dense scrub. Finally on flatter ground I came out suddenly,
through alders, on smoldering houses. Across trampled wheat my brothers-in-
arms were leading off animals, several calves and a lamb."
p. 361 (fourth paragraph).
"Corpses came next, the first a pretty child with straight black hair,
large eyes. She looked about twelve years old. She lay in some stubble
where meal lay scattered from the sack she'd been toting. The bayonet
had gone through her back, I judged, for blood around was scant. Between
the breasts one clot, too small for a bullet wound, crusted her homespun
dress.
The next was a boy of ten or less, in rawhide jacket and knee-pants. He
lay face down in the path by several huts. One arm reached out to the
pewter bowl he'd carried, now upset upon its dough. Steel had jabbed
just below his neck, into the spine.
There were grownups, too, I saw as I led the sorrel around. Djul was
empty of the living till I looked up to see beside me Dro's German-speaking
colonel. He said all Tartars who had not escaped were dead."
p. 358.
"...more stories of Armenian murdering Turks when the czarist troops fled
north. My hosts told me of their duty here: to keep tabs on brigands,
Turkish troop shifts, hidden arms, spies - Christian, Red or Tartar -
coming in from Transcaucasus. Then they spoke of the hell that would
break loose if Versailles were to put, as threatened, the six 'Armenian'
vilayets of Turkey under the control of Erevan...
An Armenia without Armenians! Turks under Christian rule? His lips
smacked in irony under the droopy red moustache. That's bloodshed - just
Smyrna over again on a bigger scale."
:>I am not denying ANYTHING of what you said.
:>I AM trying to get you to study the other side of the story---
:>that Turks were just as guilty.
:>Why would a *TURKISH* man tell me this, confirm to me what I had
:>already heard hundreds of times, that 0.3 to 1.0 million Armenians
:>were killed by Turkish soldiers and citizens from 1915 to 1923?
:Lost your last brain cell in SDPA/x-Soviet Armenian garbage/junk?
>Serdar (if that REALLY is your name!)---can you not listen?
Is that how the mind of a genocide apologist works?
>A TURK TOLD ME THIS. CONFIRMING WHAT I HAD ALREADY KNOWN.
But, why should one believe you pathological liar when we have
99.99% of the scholars and thousands of scholarly sources?
Source: Prof F. Hertas, "Van Turkish Genocide Museum: Ottoman and Western
Documents on the Genocide Committed by the Armenians Against the
Turks," (Ankara, 1984).
p. 42.
"A 30,000-strong Armenian Army captured the town of Polathane on 27.1,
erected tents in the region and carried out massacres against the Moslem
inhabitants.
Moslem women were beheaded, faces slashed, and the mutilated bodies
of Moslem men and women exhibited in a shameless way.
On 28/29.1 Orus village 16 Km.s Southeast of Polathane was raided
by the Armenian Army, and whole Moslem population was massacred."
"According to information received from the reconnaissance column in
Bayburt, an Armenian Army of 40,000, left Bayburt and withdrew to
Erzurum over Sandik inns. Before leaving Bayburt, the Armenians
treacherously murdered and burned over 22,000 Muslim people."
p. 49.
"For eight days, Armenians have been forcibly obstructing people from
leaving their homes or going from one village to the other. Day and night
they are rounding up male inhabitants, taking them to unknown destinations,
after which nothing further is heard of them. (Informed from statements
of those who succeeded in escaping wounded from the massacres around
Taskilise ruins). Women and children are being openly murdered or are
being gathered in the Church Square and similar places. Most inhuman and
barbarous acts have been committed against Moslems for eight days."
p. 57.
"As almost all Russian units opposite our front have been withdrawn, the
population loyal to us in regions behind the Russian positions are
facing an ever-increasing threat and suppression as well as cruelties
and abuses by Armenians who have decided to systematically annihilate
the Moslem population in regions under their occupation. I have
regularly informed the Russian Command of these atrocities and
cruelties and I have gained the impression that the above authority
seems to be failing in restoring order."
:>Why would a *TURK* lie about this?
:Still living in an alternate universe? The Turkish Historical
:Society has already exposed those x-Soviet Armenian Government-paid
:crooks one by one
>Listen to this expose of what the Turkish government had the
>Turkish Historical society concoct during the 1970s and 1980s:
Let us see what you compulsive liar have drivelled this time - shall we?
>In _A Crime of Vengeance: An Armenian Struggle for Justice_, The Free Press,
>New York, 1991, Edward Alexander writes that a wave of Armenian terrorism
You must be the only 'coco' left on the net to take those Armenian
soap opera producers' non-existent crap at its non-existent value.
By the way, did you know that the Russians, who have had considerable
relations with the Armenians hold a somewhat different opinion about
the Armenians?
"The Armenians are in fact a despicable community, without any
significant value. These people can only continue their survival
by exploiting others."
The criminal acts of the x-Soviet Armenian Government come directly
under the scope of the Convention on Genocide adopted by the General
Assembly of the United Nations on December 8, 1948, containing the
following provisions:
The Contracting Parties, having considered the declaration made
by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution
95 (1) dated December 11, 1946, that genocide is a crime under
international law, contrary to the spirit and aims of the United
Nations and condemned by the civilized world;
Recognizing that in all periods of history genocide has inflicted
great losses on humanity; and
Being convinced that, in order to liberate mankind from such odious
scourge, international cooperation is required;
Members agree as hereinafter provided:
Article 1. The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether
committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under
international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish.
Article 2. In the present Convention genocide means any of the
following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or
in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as
such:
A) Killing member of the group;
B) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
C) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life
calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole
or in part;
D) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
E) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group;
Article 3. The following acts shall be punishable:
a) Genocide
b) Conspiracy to commit genocide
c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide
d) Attempt to commit genocide.
Article 4. Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts
enumerated in Article 3 shall be punished, whether they are
constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private
individuals.
Had the Convention on Genocide existed before the Armenian
massacres of the Turks and Kurds, it would probably have been
difficult for the x-Soviet Armenian Government and its responsibles
to start murdering of civilian, defenseless, faithful Ottoman
citizens, children and women, (GENOCIDE AND ATTEMPT TO GENOCIDE),
to make plans to exterminate, as they have done also to Urartus
and Jews, faithful Ottoman citizens (CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT GENOCIDE),
to incite Armenians to armed revolt against the legal authority
and to commit Genocide, (DIRECT AND PUBLIC INCITEMENT TO COMMIT
GENOCIDE).
Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov, who passed through the village
of Ilica, three weeks after the massacre told us the following:
"There were thousands of dead bodies hacked to pieces, on the roads.
Every Armenian who happened to pass through these roads, cursed and
spat on the corpses. In the courtyard of a mosque which was about
25x30 meter square, dead bodies were piled to a height of 140
centimeters. Among these corpses were men and women of every age,
children and old people. The women's bodies had obvious marks of
rape. The genitals of many girls were filled with gun-powder.
A few educated Armenian girls, who worked as telephone operators
for the Armenian troops were called by Lieutenant Colonel Gryaznov
to the courtyard of the mosque and he bitterly told them to be
proud of what the Armenians had done. To the lieutenant colonel's
disgusted amazement, the Armenian girls started to laugh and giggle,
instead of being horrified. The lieutenant colonel had severely
reprimanded those girls for their indecent behaviour. When he told
the girls that the Armenians, including women, were generally more
licentious than even the wildest animals, and that their indecent
and shameful laughter was the most obvious evidence of their inhumanity
and barbarity, before a scene that appalled even veteran soldiers,
the Armenian girls finally remembered their sense of shame and
claimed they had laughed because they were nervous.
An Armenian contractor at the Alaca Communication zone command
narrated the following incident which took place on February 20:
The Armenians had nailed a Turkish women to the wall. They had cut
out the women's heart and placed the heart on top of her head.
The great massacre in Erzurum began on February 7... The enlisted men
of the artillery division caught and stripped 270 people. Then they
took these people into the bath to satisfy their lusts. 100 people
among this group were able to save their lives as the result of
my decisive attempts. The others, the Armenians claimed, were
released when they learnt that I understood what was going on.
Among those who organized this treacherous act was the envoy to the
Armenian officers, Karagodaviev. Today, some Turks were murdered
on the streets."
:Armenians amply admitted and bragged about their crime of genocide
:they perpetrated against 2.5 million Muslim people in 1914. Why do you
:net-clown deny it now?
>Get this straight, idiot. I am not denying anything. YOU ARE THE ONE
>DENYING that the Turks were guilty, too.
So, you continue to lie there with your SDPA brain off. In the
Armenian National Congress held in February 1915 in Tiflis, the
Dashnak representative gave the following report:
"As is well known, the Russian government contributed 242,900 roubles
at the beginning of the War for the provision of arms and training to
the Turkish Armenians as well as for organizing revolts in Turkish
Armenia. It is expected that our volunteer bands will penetrate the
Turkish lines, joining up with the insurrectionists and, if possible,
by creating panic in the rear of the Turkish army, help the advance
of the Russian troops and facilitate their invasion of Turkish
Armenia."
The Russian government had given Armenian politicians and activists free
rein to pursue their policies and to express their thoughts on one
condition alone: that they fulfilled their obligations to the Russians
by organizing a rebellion in Turkish Armenia within the specified time.
In accordance with the strategic plans and the orders of the Russian
military command, the Dashnaks took the following decision:
"As soon as the Armenian volunteer units commanded by Antranik approach
Van, the Dashnak fighters in the area will take to the mountains and
unfurl the flag of revolt. The plans for the rebellion will be
implemented in April 1915. The Catholicos has informed us that 10,000
armed fighters are ready to join the action."
In this way, the Dashnaks would be able to show that they had fulfilled
their obligations to the Tsar and to imperialist Russia. It is self-evident
that when tens of thousands of people take up arms in revolt against the
state immediately behind its lines of battle, that country's very existence
is at stake and the suppression of the rebellion becomes a matter of life
and death.
Serdar Argic
'We have never denied the Armenian crime of
genocide inflicted upon 2.5 million Muslim
people between 1914 and 1920.' (Agop Zahoryan)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian)