DERJA
Nasir T.
put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and feeling
part of their glorious past. When the french invaders and their puppets in
the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic, now
they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
replacement. It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it, when
the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in this
street language. It was with great resentment that the African American
leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
Fodil
Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Nassir,
Derja means spoken Algerian arabic, it has no FRENCH in it, some french
words were added after the colonization. Derja should stay ALIVE in the
algerian culture, it should remain alive in our music and our daily
conversations and I believe that even the president should address the
Algerians in it. There is no arab country that speak a pure form of arabic,
if there is, name it!..
All berber languages/dialects and Derja are essential elements of the
Maghreb, they are the only components that can link us to the Maghreb..
Fodil
>
>
Sid Ahmed Ali TOUATI
> Derja means spoken Algerian arabic, it has no FRENCH in it, some french
> words were added after the colonization.
toi meme tu dis "banene" au lieu de "mawz".
ad noughal.
Nasir T.
agglomerations. These DERJAS use at different levels Berber, french and
Arabic in more or less ratios, and can be in many cases very confusing for
one who lacks enough knowledge in any one of them. At times the same word
can mean different things from one region to the next, and it can be plain
offensive in some others.
It is true that DERJA exists, but one should not elevate it to no more than
what it is: a street language. Yes it could be used for weddings, sport's
shouting, street fighting, and market yelling but not in academia, or when
time calls for diplomacy and etiquette. To go as far as having it taught in
schools or the president be required to address the people in it, I think is
not only low class but politically dangerous. In a sense which DERJA should
he speak to the people. Would he use that of WAHRAN which uses words that
can be conceived very offensive in the South. Or should he use the
Q-SOMTINI, and be confuse his Ts with THs. If we have to vote for one
DERJA, I say let him speak SOUFI, and you will see at least one Arab country
whose leader speaks perfect Arabic, for SOUAFA DERJA is as close to pure
Arabic as anything on this earth is. It more unifying to have the president
address the people in Arabic where he can show signs of being smart and
educated, or in french where he can show that he is educated and puppet to
his Masters as he really is, but not in DERJA where he can confuse and may
divide the people.
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DHTI4.21119$y4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber. Attempting
> to
> > put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> > cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and
feeling
> > part of their glorious past. When the french invaders and their puppets
> in
> > the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic, now
> > they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> > replacement. It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it,
> when
> > the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in
this
> > street language. It was with great resentment that the African American
> > leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> > instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> > resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> > prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
> >
>
> Nassir,
>
> Derja means spoken Algerian arabic, it has no FRENCH in it, some french
gou...@my-deja.com
langue nationale et officielle de l'Algerie
et pour certains egares et complexes , retrouver
leurs sources
corrompus par la colonization francaise, arabe,
et turque.
In article <1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Nasir T." <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber.
Attempting to
> put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and
feeling
> part of their glorious past. When the french invaders and their
puppets in
> the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic,
now
> they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> replacement. It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking
it, when
> the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in
this
> street language. It was with great resentment that the African
American
> leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Fodil
> There is not only one DERJA but as many as Algerian cities and
> agglomerations. These DERJAS use at different levels Berber, french and
> Arabic in more or less ratios, and can be in many cases very confusing
for
> one who lacks enough knowledge in any one of them. At times the same word
> can mean different things from one region to the next, and it can be plain
> offensive in some others.
There is only ONE Algerian language, ONE!, and of course many different
accents ..
The derja does NOT have to use any level of anything, it's plain ARABIC.
I don't know what kind of derja you speak, I've heard people from Biskra
speak it, I couldn't see a major difference with the one they speak in
Algiers and/or Oran..
What words?, name few!!, they are known to everybody..
>
> It is true that DERJA exists, but one should not elevate it to no more
than
> what it is: a street language. Yes it could be used for weddings, sport's
> shouting, street fighting, and market yelling but not in academia, or when
WHY!?, why do you have to put RESTRICTIONS on the AKLGERIANS liberties??!,
are you a MILITARY-JUNTA?, or what!?..It shouldn't?!, it should!..
> time calls for diplomacy and etiquette. To go as far as having it taught
in
> schools or the president be required to address the people in it, I think
is
I didn't say it should be taught in schools??!, standars arabic is taught in
school.
I don't see anything wrong with the PRESIDENT adressing the ALGERIANS in
their NATIVE language, I think it's stupid and rediculous addressing them in
a language that most had to learn in school!!??, Derja is the SPOKEN
language of the ALGERIANS, and standard arabic is their written language,
probably when he writes them, he can write them in their written language..
> not only low class but politically dangerous. In a sense which DERJA
should
> he speak to the people. Would he use that of WAHRAN which uses words that
What low class?!, low class is he who thinks that the native language of the
Algerians is low!!?, dos your people in the Sahara speak classical arabic?
Are you sure you are from Algeria, you are starting to sound like Blanca,
and probably Reda is making sense..What derja of Wahran??!, he speaks in his
OWN accent!, do you find ALGERIAN songs hard to understand??!, when I listen
to Rai, hawzi or chaaabi, I don't see much differencs, actually the chaabi
of el-Hadj(Algerois) used to be very difficult to understand..
Souafa speak the same language as the Algerois! or anybody else's..
Nobody can converse in pure classical arabic!, do you?, do you speak it at
home!..
If one RESPECTS the ALGERIANS, he must SPEAK to them in their own native
language..
You should NOT IMPOSE your desires on others, you should be able to accept
and understand others, when you became president, you can speak to the
Algerois, Wahranis and others in Souafa's derja, Bouteflik is
Tlemcani(Oujdi), he has his own accent..He is not from Oued souf, and the
Souafa will have no difficulties understanding him..
I don't mind wahrani, q'santini our soufi accents..I heard Khlifi Ahmed, he
is perfect!..
Relax!, Algerians have been brainwashed to hate themselves and their own
heritage, it is a SAD fact..
> can be conceived very offensive in the South. Or should he use the
> Q-SOMTINI, and be confuse his Ts with THs. If we have to vote for one
> DERJA, I say let him speak SOUFI, and you will see at least one Arab
country
> whose leader speaks perfect Arabic, for SOUAFA DERJA is as close to pure
> Arabic as anything on this earth is. It more unifying to have the
president
> address the people in Arabic where he can show signs of being smart and
> educated, or in french where he can show that he is educated and puppet to
> his Masters as he really is, but not in DERJA where he can confuse and may
> divide the people.
>
>
> "Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:DHTI4.21119$y4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber.
Attempting
> > to
> > > put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> > > cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and
> feeling
> > > part of their glorious past. When the french invaders and their
puppets
> > in
> > > the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic,
now
> > > they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> > > replacement. It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it,
> > when
> > > the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in
> this
> > > street language. It was with great resentment that the African
American
> > > leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> > > instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> > > resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> > > prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
> > >
> >
bmadani
Hold it right there. I was in agreement with you until you came up with
this. I am in favor of the President speaking to the people in their own
language. Darja is one language, with regionalistic differences, which
are really accents, and a few vocabulary differences. Some use more
french than others. Some add Spanish or other influences, but it's still
really the same language.
> and probably Reda is making sense..
>What derja of Wahran??!, he speaks in his
> OWN accent!, do you find ALGERIAN songs hard to understand??!, when I listen
> to Rai, hawzi or chaaabi, I don't see much differencs, actually the chaabi
> of el-Hadj(Algerois) used to be very difficult to understand..
>
> Souafa speak the same language as the Algerois! or anybody else's..
>
> Nobody can converse in pure classical arabic!, do you?, do you speak it at
> home!..>
They can, but most feel ridiculous doing so.
> If one RESPECTS the ALGERIANS, he must SPEAK to them in their own native
> language..
>
> You should NOT IMPOSE your desires on others, you should be able to accept
> and understand others,>
Why don't you say the same for Tamazight?
Nasir T.
and it is more of a fad and cultural submission to colonial france than
anything. DERJA of the country side uses mainly Arabic, or in some regions
Berber, with of course and understandably so, plenty of country accent.
This is not simply a matter of accent, just as is the difference between a
Texan and a Bostonian in English, but more in the vocabulary and grammar
since one bases his spoken language on the native languages, Arabic and
Berber, and the other corrupts it to some extent with french.
I am sorry but I don't agree with you at all of respecting Algerians meaning
to replace the Arabic language with the DERIJA. ADDARIJA is a street
language, and should not invade any corridors of the schools, government,
and the official business buildings of the Algerian people. It is however
permissible for the DARIJA to be utilized where it is currently used. The
DARIJA has served so far as a transitional medium between an all
francophonized administrative system to a more standard one that is based on
the native language of the people: Arabic. The more time passes the less
francophnized this DARIJA become. We should not waist time and energy to
render this incoherent Esperanto into a language, and try to define it as a
language with grammar, vocabulary and syntax. It is not a language in this
sense. It does not have literature or any influence on literature and
science to support its use. More importantly it is changing in time and
what was true about it in 1965, was not in 1975, which and neither the
previous was in 1985, which and all the previous were not in 1995, and most
likely will not be in 2005 and beyond. It has grown thinner in french
influence across the country, and heavier in Arabic. It varies also from
region to region, and this can be very problematic from a political point of
view. A BISKRI does not understand a DZIRI. Take the word ASHBAH for
example, a BISKRA says AHZAG! Yes you can laugh until your teeth show,
because believe it or not that's what they say in BISKRA.
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:xD%I4.22074$y4.7...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
> DERJA of Algiers, and the major cities in general use a lot of french in it,
> and it is more of a fad and cultural submission to colonial france than
> anything.
It is not a cultural submission. It's a process. That's how languages
remain alive and grow. One adapts foreign words and makes them one's
own.
DERJA of the country side uses mainly Arabic, or in some regions
> Berber, with of course and understandably so, plenty of country accent.
> This is not simply a matter of accent, just as is the difference between a
> Texan and a Bostonian in English, but more in the vocabulary and grammar
> since one bases his spoken language on the native languages, Arabic and
> Berber, and the other corrupts it to some extent with french.>
My aunt-in-law doesn't know a word of French but she understands both
Algerois and Wahrani, so it can't be all that different.
>
> I am sorry but I don't agree with you at all of respecting Algerians meaning
> to replace the Arabic language with the DERIJA. ADDARIJA is a street
> language, and should not invade any corridors of the schools, government,
> and the official business buildings of the Algerian people.>
Why not?
It is however
> permissible for the DARIJA to be utilized where it is currently used.>
I'm sure the people thank you for small favors. It would have left some
mute otherwise.
> The
> DARIJA has served so far as a transitional medium between an all
> francophonized administrative system to a more standard one that is based on
> the native language of the people: Arabic.>
If you're speaking of classical or modern standard Arabic, that is no
one's native language, unless you're from the right tribe in Saudi
Arabia.
> The more time passes the less
> francophnized this DARIJA become.
It's never going to be pure Arabic. If not French, it will be something
else, but people do pick up foreign words through the media, business,
technology, etc.
We should not waist time and energy to
> render this incoherent Esperanto into a language, and try to define it as a
> language with grammar, vocabulary and syntax.>>
It has grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. It is a language by the
definition of a language. It is plain snobbery to say otherwise.
It is not a language in this
> sense. >>
It most certainly is. It is obvious you do not have any knowledge of
linguistics.
It does not have literature or any influence on literature and
> science to support its use.>
That has nothing to do with having a viable language. The literature can
come if people want it to. English didn't have any literature until
Shakespeare. Before that it was all oral tradition. Arabic didn't have
any influence on science until after it learned from the Greek, and then
made its dent. It just takes using the language in that direction. No
language is incapable of this.
More importantly it is changing in time and
> what was true about it in 1965, was not in 1975, which and neither the
> previous was in 1985, which and all the previous were not in 1995, and most
> likely will not be in 2005 and beyond. >>
Living languages develop. They are not static. If they are, they are
dead and useless. Even Modern Standard Arabic is not Classical Arabic,
and it is not exactly the same everywhere. There are some differences in
the use of vocabulary. Not major, but there was a PhD dissertation on
this subject where Lebanese journalists and Egyptian journalists were
compared in their use and understanding of media Arabic, and it was
found that they did not always understand the same thing because words
were used differently in the two countries. And this was written
(formal) modern standard Arabic.
Fodil
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38F4A3F3...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
Of course I do, I've been SAYING it all the time for CRYINING OUT LOUD!, are
you blind, can't you read..TAMAZIGHT is a KABYLE LANGUAGE, it's THEIR
LOCAL-national LANGUAGE, they should address THEIR PEOPLE in THEIR OWN
language!!, Was I ever against it??
TAMAZIGHT is NOT the LANGUAGE of ALL ALGERIANS, only FEW people speak it,
and some of them do NOT consider themselves ALGERIANS anymore, because being
an Algerian is adhering to Arabite and Islamite also, it's what the
CONSTITUTION says..
O.K. when Ouyahia or Ait Ahmed become the Presisdent than they'll be able to
speak Tamazight to THEIR own people!..I don't care..
Fodil
Nasir T.
another woman, fantasizes about two men, encourages homosexuality such as it
is practiced in france, and dreams of widespread bestiality as she imagines
in Egypt, now has another weird Ph.D. thesis to prove something about DARJA.
Well, call your auntie and tell her is it ok to say AHZAGTIHA AALA ANNAS
ANTAA SCA, and tell us what she would tell you. If your auntie understands
BISKRI, she would tell you to go easy on us in SCA and talk in simple
language and not be so difficult. If she does not, and I am sure she does
not she would laugh and will never forget the day when you said that you
have AHZAGTIHA.
Go ahead, it is not as bad as when Mrs. Scholar Lady, the one who wishes to
be called a bitch, dreams of doing another woman, fantasizes about two men,
encourages homosexuality such as it is practiced in france, and dreams of
widespread bestiality as she imagines in Egypt, now has another weird Ph.D.
thesis to prove something about DARJA.
"bmadani" <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38F526EA...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> "Nasir T." wrote:
> >
> > DERJA of Algiers, and the major cities in general use a lot of french in
it,
> > and it is more of a fad and cultural submission to colonial france than
> > anything.
>
> It is not a cultural submission. It's a process. That's how languages
> remain alive and grow. One adapts foreign words and makes them one's
> own.
>
> DERJA of the country side uses mainly Arabic, or in some regions
> > Berber, with of course and understandably so, plenty of country accent.
> > This is not simply a matter of accent, just as is the difference between
a
> > Texan and a Bostonian in English, but more in the vocabulary and grammar
> > since one bases his spoken language on the native languages, Arabic and
> > Berber, and the other corrupts it to some extent with french.>
>
> My aunt-in-law doesn't know a word of French but she understands both
> Algerois and Wahrani, so it can't be all that different.
>
>
> >
> > I am sorry but I don't agree with you at all of respecting Algerians
meaning
> > to replace the Arabic language with the DERIJA. ADDARIJA is a street
> > language, and should not invade any corridors of the schools,
government,
> > and the official business buildings of the Algerian people.>
>
> Why not?
>
> It is however
> > permissible for the DARIJA to be utilized where it is currently used.>
>
> I'm sure the people thank you for small favors. It would have left some
> mute otherwise.
>
> > The
> > DARIJA has served so far as a transitional medium between an all
> > francophonized administrative system to a more standard one that is
based on
> > the native language of the people: Arabic.>
>
> If you're speaking of classical or modern standard Arabic, that is no
> one's native language, unless you're from the right tribe in Saudi
> Arabia.
>
> > The more time passes the less
> > francophnized this DARIJA become.
>
> It's never going to be pure Arabic. If not French, it will be something
> else, but people do pick up foreign words through the media, business,
> technology, etc.
>
> We should not waist time and energy to
> > render this incoherent Esperanto into a language, and try to define it
as a
> > language with grammar, vocabulary and syntax.>>
>
> It has grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. It is a language by the
> definition of a language. It is plain snobbery to say otherwise.
>
> It is not a language in this
> > sense. >>
>
> It most certainly is. It is obvious you do not have any knowledge of
> linguistics.
>
> It does not have literature or any influence on literature and
> > science to support its use.>
>
> That has nothing to do with having a viable language. The literature can
> come if people want it to. English didn't have any literature until
> Shakespeare. Before that it was all oral tradition. Arabic didn't have
> any influence on science until after it learned from the Greek, and then
> made its dent. It just takes using the language in that direction. No
> language is incapable of this.
>
> More importantly it is changing in time and
> > what was true about it in 1965, was not in 1975, which and neither the
> > previous was in 1985, which and all the previous were not in 1995, and
most
> > likely will not be in 2005 and beyond. >>
>
Fodil
I didn't say that they should replace standard arabic with derja, no!!.But
it does NOT do any harm to speak to the GHASHI-CHAAB, the Algerian people in
their own native language!, how many non0educated Algerians in the rural
areas understand standard arabic..How can you speak to a Fellah in classical
arabic, lazam taqra a3lih surat el-fatiha..
O.K., you taught us ONE different word..
I know for a fact that a BISKRI woman singer (a3roubia) started the "smaat"
in ALGIERS, all Algerois women understood her language and her songs and
that was years ago..When I think of Derja, I don't think of the one the
youth speank on the streets!!??, NO!, my father does NOT speak a street
language!!??, what are you talking about..
I can write you a speech to the President in ALGERIAN ARABIC better than any
classical standard Arabic than you can dream of, and it will TOUCH every
heart in Algeria, ya el-Ghalet!!, with NO single french word, nor berber
word for that matter..the FELLAH does NOT understand classical arabic, and
65% of algerians are still Fellahin..Ot Am I mistaken..Maybe those people do
not count for you..
Fodil
Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:ih9J4.1518$PV.9...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Fodil
Believe me, I understand what you want to say, it's the Algerois dialect
that you find snobish, because the young generation like to color it with
french words(izweqou b' elgweria). But trust me on this, there is NOT even
ONE single french word in the original Algerois dialect, not even one..As a
matter a fact, you must say "An3am" and not "ih" or "ah", my father used to
tell me when I call you say "An3am" Baba, and not "Ah!!??", he used to tell
me I'm not your STREET friend, speak to me in Algerian Arabic, b' Lughatna.
I used to mix french words also, he usually reminded me (Allah yarhmu),
especially my oncles from the heart of algiers, my father grew up FELLAH by
the way and he died a Muslim (Allah yarhmu), he never spoke french in his
life, except to the DOG!, he used tell him "Allez Boubi, viens
ci..cherches..!":)))
Relax, I know that some people of the east and some of the Sahara think that
the Algerois are snobish, I know that some of them are, but it's just
superficial.My father used to love Khlifi Ahmed, Khlifi Ahmed sings in pure
ALGERIAN ARABIC..
Come on, give us some respect!, you may say that the derja was polluted by
other foreign words than I agree with you, but to completly deny it, I don't
agree with you.
I don't believe that it is a language with its own grammaire or nhew wa
Ssarf!!??, Blanca is just pushing it, it is a Western(Maghrebin) spoken
Arabic..
Btw, I have a brother-in law from Biskra, he is the first one that sent us a
letter written in DERJA using arabic characters, I laughed then, now I think
that I'm the idiot to have laughed at it, I used to write in french..We just
do NOT respect ourselves, we always want to be who we are not, we never
respected our native language, never!!. Even standard arabic was thought of
to be the language of the religion!!??, they never taught us about us but
about others..
Fodil
Fodil
Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:bW9J4.1603$PV.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
> Mrs. Scholar Lady, the one who wishes to be called a bitch, dreams of doing
> another woman, fantasizes about two men, encourages homosexuality such as it
> is practiced in france, and dreams of widespread bestiality as she imagines
> in Egypt, now has another weird Ph.D. thesis to prove something about DARJA.>
I see you still haven't learned how to debate intelligently. Your only
way is to attack in a stupid and filthy way about nonsense. What's your
IQ, 50?
You are no representative of Algerians as you tried to tell one poster.
You are a low-life who no matter what you say, ends up telling us how
much you really love murder.
You may fool some, Nasir, but your evil comes across much too clearly to
fool all. There isn't a decent bone in your body, and you can't even
pretend correctly.
Nasir T.
Arabic characters, and he must have done the same when he read yours of
slang written in french, if you actually did send him one. The trouble is
that the slang was never meant to be medium of written or formal
communications, letters or anything else. Slang is supposed to be quick-fix
to communication, and letters or presidents' speeches are supposed to be
elaborate way of communication and need more thinking and leave little room
for misinterpretation or error. Slang can not be taken seriously, and this
is why everyone laughs at it when it is written, and in what characters:
usually those of Roman or Arabic languages, since slang never reaches any
sophistication to have its own characters to become a real language by
itself.
By the way I just remembered four more words that people in the East and
Southern East part of Algeria would find strange but spoken all the time in
the West: WAH, SHASHRA, GH-RAOUIL, the four word is very bad in the East
that I can write in here. I am sure if one is concerned with this matter
will find plenty of difference, the least of which is of how to say YES in
every region: WAH, ANAAM, HIH, A'N-HAH ...etc
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6xaJ4.23879$y4.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> other foreign words than I agree with you, but to completly deny it, I
don't
> agree with you.
> I don't believe that it is a language with its own grammaire or nhew wa
> Ssarf!!??, Blanca is just pushing it, it is a Western(Maghrebin) spoken
> Arabic..
>
> Btw, I have a brother-in law from Biskra, he is the first one that sent us
a
> letter written in DERJA using arabic characters, I laughed then, now I
think
> that I'm the idiot to have laughed at it, I used to write in french..We
just
> do NOT respect ourselves, we always want to be who we are not, we never
> respected our native language, never!!. Even standard arabic was thought
of
> to be the language of the religion!!??, they never taught us about us but
> about others..
>
> Fodil
> Fodil
>
>
>
>
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:bW9J4.1603$PV.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
us...@sprintpipe.com
>> Fodil wrote:
>> >
>Of course I do, I've been SAYING it all the time for CRYINING OUT LOUD!, are
>you blind, can't you read..TAMAZIGHT is a KABYLE LANGUAGE, it's THEIR
>LOCAL-national LANGUAGE, they should address THEIR PEOPLE in THEIR OWN
>language!!, Was I ever against it??
Whoever u are
Tamazight is not exculsively the language of the Kabyles.
Tamazight is the berber language, and that includes
all the spoken variations of it from Kabylie,Aures, Southern
Algeria, Algiers, and the many places in Algeria where they speak
tamazight.
Stop misunforming the readers of this group.
>
>TAMAZIGHT is NOT the LANGUAGE of ALL ALGERIANS, only FEW people speak it,
Only few people ?
You are a psycho-liar..
There are millions of
tamazight speakers in Algeria.
>and some of them do NOT consider themselves ALGERIANS anymore, because being
>an Algerian is adhering to Arabite and Islamite also, it's what the
>CONSTITUTION says..
Thatb means the algerian constitution has to be rewritten and address
the concern of these people.
>O.K. when Ouyahia or Ait Ahmed become the Presisdent than they'll be able to
>speak Tamazight to THEIR own people!..I don't care..
Ait Ahmed yes but Ouyahia ???
>Fodil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Massine
ceux qu'ils disent aux infos, ou ecrivent sur les journaux?
Actuellement ils sont plus de 70% ( des moins de 30 ans ) a ne pas
comprendre la langue arabe classique, cela est du a votre systeme
fondamental "fawdha mental", a l'arabisation sauvage, plus les ecoles
detruites par le terrorisme! Quand allez vous comprendre que c'est aux
elus de parler un langage comprehensif par le peuple mais non au peuple
de faire des efforts pour les ecouter! Il y a un decalage terrible.
Par la sacralisation de la langue arabe et pour faire la distinction,
les societes dites arabes sont divisees en deux, les notables, les
bourgeois s'exprimant en arabe academique, les bouhyouf, le petit
peuple s'expriment en arabe dialectales, c'est une forme de societe
maitre-esclave!
Massine.
sa...@my-deja.com
Fodil
> I am sure you laughed when you received his letter of slang written in
> Arabic characters, and he must have done the same when he read yours of
No, I laughed because I was surprised to see something so unusual to be
real. I laughed because I was stupid, ignorant and I was brainwashed into
believing that my native language is WORTHLESS and I don't have one, my
mother never understood Classical arabic, when I read the letter for her, I
didn't have to read it TWICE or translate it into her native tongue.
The letter started like this: salam 3alykum wash rakum, rana labass wa
el-handu Allah wa tkun ghir ssaha..
Not like: Salam aalaykum wa salam aala min tabi3a el-huda..
If I read a letter written in classical language to my mother(Allah
yarham'ha), she'll stop me at the word "Huda", she'll tell me "b3id shar ya
oulidi, h'na mashi ihud, hadu wa qila ihud ya oulidi, wash maanat'ha
el-Huda?"
I THINK that PEOPLE and ALGERIANS shall be FREE to EXPRESS themselves in
their NATIVE language!, can you ALLOW me to at least THINK in YOUR
country..
Forget about chachra wa el-ghrouala..or what have you...
EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS STANDARD DERJA spoken in ALGIERS, and that is a
Fact..Because people from the EAST, WEST, SOUTH, NORTH have ties and
relatives in ALGIERS, Algiers is the CAPITAL of the ALGERIANS..
And there is NO french nor berber words in Algerian Arabic..
Maybe some people from Algiers do not understand you, but YOU do understand
them, case closed..
everybody understand "lewled", because it is from Oulid, they even
understand DHRARI, from DHARIA, DHURIA, you see ALGEROIS is 100%
ARABIC-ARABIC, so your shashra or tchatchra is also used in Algiers,
itchir=a kid, maybe it's a berber word, not kabyle..You are just trying to
find EXCUSES!, that's all..
Yes it is slang but a GOOD pure ALGERIAN ARABIC, it belongs to the Maghreb,
it's PART of us, and NO Algerian is COMPLETE without loving that SLANG..I
didn't write him baxk in french??!, or french slang, I'm NOT that rude!, I
used to write my family in french, USED to...
Wah, Ih and AH are NOT words, they have equivalents in ENGLISH YA!, YO! and
Yea..the RIGHT word is "ANAAM"="AN3am", every Algerian knows it..
There is STREET derja and there is Standard Derja and the one spoken in
ALGIERS is the purest, because Algiers is Cosmopolitan, most the inhabitants
of Algiers came from diferent parts of the country, you can find some from
Oued Souf, Bousaada, Biskra and Laghwat..
> slang written in french, if you actually did send him one. The trouble is
> that the slang was never meant to be medium of written or formal
> communications, letters or anything else. Slang is supposed to be
quick-fix
> to communication, and letters or presidents' speeches are supposed to be
> elaborate way of communication and need more thinking and leave little
room
> for misinterpretation or error. Slang can not be taken seriously, and
this
> is why everyone laughs at it when it is written, and in what characters:
> usually those of Roman or Arabic languages, since slang never reaches any
> sophistication to have its own characters to become a real language by
> itself.
>
> By the way I just remembered four more words that people in the East and
> Southern East part of Algeria would find strange but spoken all the time
in
> the West: WAH, SHASHRA, GH-RAOUIL, the four word is very bad in the East
> that I can write in here. I am sure if one is concerned with this matter
> will find plenty of difference, the least of which is of how to say YES in
> every region: WAH, ANAAM, HIH, A'N-HAH ...etc
>
> "Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > other foreign words than I agree with you, but to completly deny it, I
> don't
> > agree with you.
> > I don't believe that it is a language with its own grammaire or nhew wa
> > Ssarf!!??, Blanca is just pushing it, it is a Western(Maghrebin) spoken
> > Arabic..
> >
> > Btw, I have a brother-in law from Biskra, he is the first one that sent
us
> a
> > letter written in DERJA using arabic characters, I laughed then, now I
> think
> > that I'm the idiot to have laughed at it, I used to write in french..We
> just
> > do NOT respect ourselves, we always want to be who we are not, we never
> > respected our native language, never!!. Even standard arabic was thought
> of
> > to be the language of the religion!!??, they never taught us about us
but
> > about others..
> >
> > Fodil
> > Fodil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:bW9J4.1603$PV.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
>
>
Fodil
<us...@sprintpipe.com> wrote in message
news:38f5bf9...@news.pipeline.com...
> "Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> >> Fodil wrote:
> Whoever u are
> Tamazight is not exculsively the language of the Kabyles.
> Tamazight is the berber language, and that includes
> all the spoken variations of it from Kabylie,Aures, Southern
> Algeria, Algiers, and the many places in Algeria where they speak
> tamazight.
> Stop misunforming the readers of this group.
>
> >
> >TAMAZIGHT is NOT the LANGUAGE of ALL ALGERIANS, only FEW people speak it,
>
>
> Only few people ?
> You are a psycho-liar..
> There are millions of
> tamazight speakers in Algeria.
>
O.K., if it is spokern by MANY Algerians, why don't you have a REFFERENDUM
to have it as a NATIONAL language, why?, the GOVEERNMENT is for it..
If the Kabyles, the Chaouis, the Mouzabites and the Touareg speak the same
language, then they are LYING by saying that they don't speak the same
language, so who is lying?, if it is spoken by MANY, how come it's NOT
national??, it does NOT make sense, and it's NOT the government because the
government is saying LEAVE it to the people to decide..
Fodil
> >and some of them do NOT consider themselves ALGERIANS anymore, because
being
> >an Algerian is adhering to Arabite and Islamite also, it's what the
> >CONSTITUTION says..
>
> Thatb means the algerian constitution has to be rewritten and address
> the concern of these people.
>
It was rewritten and they included AMAZIGH, it's written down already.
Now, they want you to have a refferendum, it makes sense..
Why do you want to IMPOSE it on the ALL..
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
> > slang written in french, if you actually did send him one. The trouble is
> > that the slang was never meant to be medium of written or formal
> > communications, letters or anything else.>>
Most languages were not meant to be mediums of written or formal
communication. People make them so. Languages are for communication.
Slang is supposed to be
> quick-fix
> > to communication, and letters or presidents' speeches are supposed to be
> > elaborate way of communication and need more thinking and leave little
> room
> > for misinterpretation or error. >>
Are you crazy? Presidents' speeches, like any politician's speeches are
suppose to be open enough to interpretation to get them out of fixes
when they promise what they can't deliver.
Slang can not be taken seriously, and
> this
> > is why everyone laughs at it when it is written, and in what characters:
> > usually those of Roman or Arabic languages, since slang never reaches any
> > sophistication to have its own characters to become a real language by
> > itself.>
Languages don't all need their own characters. In that case, English
would not be a language. The letters used are Roman, and English is not
a Roman language. One can use the same alphabet with modifications as
needed.
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS STANDARD DERJA spoken in ALGIERS, and that is a
> Fact..Because people from the EAST, WEST, SOUTH, NORTH have ties and
> relatives in ALGIERS, Algiers is the CAPITAL of the ALGERIANS..
>
> And there is NO french nor berber words in Algerian Arabic..
On the berber, you're wrong. And it's idiotic to insist that Algerian
Arabic is pure Arabic with only the pronunciation different. These were
berber speakers or latin speakers that adopted the language, and you can
be sure that people would mix their language with the new. The only way
it would have been kept anywhere close to "pure" is if it had been
standardized in the classroom, and even then, once in the streets,
people would have used what was most common to them. It's logical,
Fodil, as well as fact. You're always talking about logic, use it.
I can give you a pesonal anecdote as an example. Since my domestic life
had never been conducted in English until 4 years ago, on those
occasions that I have had to come up with words normally used only in
the home or in cooking, I have a heck of a time thinking of the English.
I usually (but not always-especially with the names of herbs) know it,
but it simply isn't something I use because I never used English in the
domestic sphere, not until I married my Algerian husband, ironically,
and he ends up getting the Spanish, with a correction when I think of
the right word. This would be the same for people having to adapt a new
language. While in the street they will use certain vocabulary, but
others at home, and the comfort zone will affect the language in the
long run when it is not standardized. It will also affect grammar and
syntax, which is why darja has Tamazight to thank for its structure, as
well as some of its vocabulary, and why Algerian French is different
from standard French.
> Maybe some people from Algiers do not understand you, but YOU do understand
> them, case closed..>
Those who don't just haven't been exposed to the accent, but in time,
they figure it out. And those words that are different are learned,
especially when they can mean something embarassing to someone else. And
this is not particular to Algerian darja. These vocabulary differences
are common in other languages, possibly all. I know that in Spanish, you
have to learn some of the differences in order not to put your foot in
your mouth, and it's not only country to country, but region to region.
And the names of fruit and vegetables especially do differ. English is
the same. There are some vocabulary differences between England and the
USA, but it's still English, and some words or phrases can mean
something outlandish in one country or another. One just learns those
differences, but you still understand each other (unless it's Cockney or
hillbilly--then you've really got to get that accent down!).
> Wah, Ih and AH are NOT words, they have equivalents in ENGLISH YA!, YO! and
> Yea..the RIGHT word is "ANAAM"="AN3am", every Algerian knows it..
Why isn't "ih" a word? It's kabyle for "yes." I don't know if it's used
by other berbers, but it is used by Djudjurdians. "Yo" probably comes
from the Arabic "ya Fodil." I have not heard it used as "yes." Blacks
shout "yo Bro" just like "ya Fodil."
Which Algerians use "anaam"? I've heard "wa," "ih," "hih," and I forget
what else, but I don't recall anything like the Arabic "na'am."
> There is STREET derja and there is Standard Derja and the one spoken in
> ALGIERS is the purest, because Algiers is Cosmopolitan, most the inhabitants
> of Algiers came from diferent parts of the country, you can find some from
> Oued Souf, Bousaada, Biskra and Laghwat..>
Now that's snobbery speaking. Algerois snobbery. Not meant in a bad way.
Rather cracks me up. It's not the purest. It's the most mixed probably.
What makes it purer than Constantinian darja? Or the darja of Khemis
Miliana, where you don't hear all that French mixed in?
Fethi&Di
What do you expect of a Fox or a Bobby ?
I have a dog, berger-Allemand, i named it "White" for its colour.
My dog is well dressed.
I decided to avoid him sometimes just to learn him to stay in his right place.
.....and that's what i'm doing to that Fox and Bobby at the same moment.
Please, try your best to dress it, perhaps you succeed.
Wellah, i did but i give up, it's like to talk to a stone or ....
Good luck with a such stone.
__________________________
<us...@sprintpipe.com> wrote...
> "Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> Fodil wrote:
> >Of course I do, I've been SAYING it all the time for CRYINING OUT LOUD!, are
> >you blind, can't you read..TAMAZIGHT is a KABYLE LANGUAGE, it's THEIR
> >LOCAL-national LANGUAGE, they should address THEIR PEOPLE in THEIR OWN
> >language!!, Was I ever against it??
> Whoever u are
> Tamazight is not exculsively the language of the Kabyles.
> Tamazight is the berber language, and that includes
> all the spoken variations of it from Kabylie,Aures, Southern
> Algeria, Algiers, and the many places in Algeria where they speak
> tamazight.
> Stop misunforming the readers of this group.
> >TAMAZIGHT is NOT the LANGUAGE of ALL ALGERIANS, only FEW people speak it,
> Only few people ?
> You are a psycho-liar..
> There are millions of
> tamazight speakers in Algeria.
> >and some of them do NOT consider themselves ALGERIANS anymore, because being
> >an Algerian is adhering to Arabite and Islamite also, it's what the
> >CONSTITUTION says..
> Thatb means the algerian constitution has to be rewritten and address
> the concern of these people.
Nasir T.
the most french corrupted ones in Algeria. The minute you open up the door
for DERJA everyone will scream FOULI TAYYAB, and it you in Algiers now who
thinks that Algiers fava beans are "cookables!" I bet the same thing will
be claimed by everyone else, including OULED DARRAJ in BARIKA and MSILA.
You see what DARIJA can do, it will divide the country.
As to your mother, may she rests in peace, that was the price we had to pay
for so long period of occupation. Now with more and more people attend
schools the level of illiteracy is falling rapidly and there will be a day
when reading and writing are would be the minimum social standards. Already
Algeria has a ver high level of literacy, especially when compared with its
most recent history after the expulsion of the french. However, people come
in different levels of cultural and educational preparations, and yes one
must as well admits it now, we may never see the day when all Algerians
understand string theory. So, some of us might have to explain it to those
who do not understand it, as much we may need others to explain to us how
'MKAR-KECHETTE are made. None however can guarantee that we will
successfully make some, nor that they would be able to invent new
cosmological models based on our explanations of strings.
As to HUDA being confused with IHUD, I say HUDA is a common proper name in
Algeria, that your mother should have been aware of had she been listening
to Algerians. HUDA is not a foreign word, but a perfectly Arabic one, and
many girls are named HUDA.
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7onJ4.13425$q67.4...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
Already
> Algeria has a ver high level of literacy, especially when compared with its
> most recent history after the expulsion of the french.
What do you consider high?
Nasir T.
Illiterate Medium Literate
0% [Algeria] 100%
|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|
10% 30% 50% 70% 90%
"bmadani" <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:38F64969...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> "Nasir T." wrote:
> >
> Already
> > Algeria has a ver high level of literacy, especially when compared with
its
> > most recent history after the expulsion of the french.
>
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
> You will understand better by a diagram, maybe:
>
> Illiterate Medium Literate
> 0% [Algeria] 100%
> |IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|
> 10% 30% 50% 70% 90%
Good, but where did you get your figures about Algeria? The available
official figures is only in the medium range as you have it listed
above. Algeria does not have over 90 percent literacy rate. It hasn't
even hit the 70 percent mark. The latest (1999 publication) figure is
61.6 percent of the population. Check out:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ag.html. The figure is not
available on the Algerian Statistics page, where it should be. Had to
resort to the CIA world factbook for 1999.
Nasir T.
YAKHI AAM-SHA YAKHI: Put some glasses and see, it is not in the nineties.
According to the United Nations report on literacy and during the 1987
statistics 13.8% of male under the age of 25 were illiterate. Above that
age 77.3% were illiterate, with higher numbers for women. Since most of the
Algerian population is made of youth, naturally Algeria has a high rate of
literacy. The United Nation projected that in 1995 the adult male
illiteracy rate would drop dramatically to 28.9% as of course many of the
youth become literate adults, with of course higher still literacy rates in
the under 25 years old. There are no current data on literacy other than
projections of course, and in 2000 this ratios are expected to be even more
dramatic.
To make the point through just one example, Morocco's ratio of illiteracy
was in the 1994 statistics 28.6% for the under 25 years old males. And for
the adult males 52.9%, with even more rates for females. Although these
numbers were reported 7 years after those of Algeria's they are still very
poor. For 1995 the United Nations predicted that these indicator for
Morocco reaches only 42.4%. Which is of course much higher than Algeria's
28.9%!
So the United Nations predictions were correct for 1995, literacy in Algeria
was at 71.1% for males, and jumping from 54.4% in 1987. At that ratio it
would be now at 81.5%. UN statistics would only put Morocco literacy today
at 59.6%. Similar comparisons with Tunisia would reveal healthy numbers for
Algeria.
bmadani
"Nasir T." wrote:
>
> "bmadani" <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:38F66393...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > "Nasir T." wrote:
> > >
> > > You will understand better by a diagram, maybe:
> > >
> > > Illiterate Medium Literate
> > > 0% [Algeria] 100%
> > > |IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|IIII|
> > > 10% 30% 50% 70% 90%
> >
> >
> > Good, but where did you get your figures about Algeria? The available
> > official figures is only in the medium range as you have it listed
> > above. Algeria does not have over 90 percent literacy rate. It hasn't
> > even hit the 70 percent mark. The latest (1999 publication) figure is
> > 61.6 percent of the population. Check out:
> > http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/ag.html. The figure is not
> > available on the Algerian Statistics page, where it should be. Had to
> > resort to the CIA world factbook for 1999.
>
> YAKHI AAM-SHA YAKHI: Put some glasses and see, it is not in the nineties.
> According to the United Nations report on literacy and during the 1987
> statistics 13.8% of male under the age of 25 were illiterate. Above that
> age 77.3% were illiterate, with higher numbers for women. >>
You are wrong. The literacy rate for women was (and is) very low, which
is why combined, it is only in the 60s. You cannot just mention the
men's literacy rate. Half the country is female. It is true that the
men's is 77.3 percent, but together with the women's, the national
average goes to less than 62 percent.
Since most of the
> Algerian population is made of youth, naturally Algeria has a high rate of
> literacy. The United Nation projected that in 1995 the adult male
> illiteracy rate would drop dramatically to 28.9% as of course many of the
> youth become literate adults, with of course higher still literacy rates in
> the under 25 years old. There are no current data on literacy other than
> projections of course, and in 2000 this ratios are expected to be even more
> dramatic.>
We already have the 1995 figures. It's the current ones that we don't
have.
> To make the point through just one example, Morocco's ratio of illiteracy
> was in the 1994 statistics 28.6% for the under 25 years old males. And for
> the adult males 52.9%, with even more rates for females. Although these
> numbers were reported 7 years after those of Algeria's they are still very
> poor. For 1995 the United Nations predicted that these indicator for
> Morocco reaches only 42.4%. Which is of course much higher than Algeria's
> 28.9%!
You keep saying "more" for females, with no figures, and you're lying.
What matters is the literacy rate in total. The male-female rate will
explain what is going on, and whether females are being educated
equally, but it's the national average one needs to look at.
>
> So the United Nations predictions were correct for 1995, literacy in Algeria
> was at 71.1% for males, and jumping from 54.4% in 1987. At that ratio it
> would be now at 81.5%. UN statistics would only put Morocco literacy today
> at 59.6%. Similar comparisons with Tunisia would reveal healthy numbers for
> Algeria.
That's the males only. What's a country with over half it's female
population illiterate? The national literacy, which is what we were
looking at, is in the medium range, and lower than it should be, taking
into consideration how high it rose during the Boumedienne years.
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
>
> > EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS STANDARD DERJA spoken in ALGIERS, and that is a
> > Fact..Because people from the EAST, WEST, SOUTH, NORTH have ties and
> > relatives in ALGIERS, Algiers is the CAPITAL of the ALGERIANS..
> >
> > And there is NO french nor berber words in Algerian Arabic..
>
> Arabic is pure Arabic with only the pronunciation different. These were
In Algeria, the STREET language does exist, actually WORDS spoken only on
the STREETS, it's like in the US..Youngesters do have their own ways of
STREET talk, and they better NOT use the same terms at home. In other words,
there is Slang in the slang itself..But the Home slang is the Purest, and
it's ALL Arabic, it started as ALL ARABIC and other words got introduced
gradually with time, and I'm NOT surprised that many words are of BERBER
origin!, so?, there is NO difference, berber or arabic sound the same to
me..Your personal experiences can't be compared in this matter, you have to
know the language before you can compare yourself to it..Sorry, but you
miss..
There is STANDARD Arabic derja with NO FRENCH words in it.period..
ALGEROIS is the PUREST ARABIC in ALGERIA, because ALGIERS is the capital of
the ALGERIANS, and it IS..Go Ask them to find STRANGE words of UNKNOWN
origin in the ALGEROIS (excluding street talk), there is NONE, but there are
plenty in the East, the West and the south..L'Algerois is as pure as the
Algerian arabic can be..and that is a FACT and it is NOT debatable..
Tchachra, ghrouala, barsh, zenfoula and many more cannot be found in the
Algerois dialect, because they are NOT of ARABIC origin..
Nassir said it is Oued Souf people, it's BULL!..
Everybody in ALGERIA understand l'Algerois dialect, because it is SIMPLE and
pure ARABIC and that is a FACT. To prove it, take any word and you'll find
it' origin in the ARABIC language, any word..For example, in Algiers, they
say Dhrari(or Drari) for KIDS, not shahshra or ghraoule!!?,
Because Dhrari is ARABIC derived from Dhurra ou Dhuria, it's arabic because
it can be found in the Quran (simple proof), go find out what it means.
Fodil
Fodil
> That's exactly the problem. The DERJA of Algiers is one of the worst and
> the most french corrupted ones in Algeria. The minute you open up the
door
> for DERJA everyone will scream FOULI TAYYAB, and it you in Algiers now who
> thinks that Algiers fava beans are "cookables!" I bet the same thing will
> be claimed by everyone else, including OULED DARRAJ in BARIKA and MSILA.
> You see what DARIJA can do, it will divide the country.
>
Come on!, there is ONE derja, it's ARABIC without Shakl wa nehwe was ssarf
wa kana wa akhawatiha..What foulek ttayeb, ttaybu l'rouhek..
If I speak to a Sahraoui, he'll understand me, because Fouli is Foulou
also..Just don't use the FRENCH words when speaking the algerian arabic to
the mass, that's all..
Just don't do it like Kaid Ahmed used to..
As far as Huda is concerned, HUDA is the First name of ONE of my several my
NIECES (honnest truth)..But if my mother heard the expression: "Wa salem
aala min taba3a el-Huda", she, for sure will stop me and ask me to explain
to her the proper meaning..She might think : "Ya oulidi bent khtek mazal'ha
sghira!!?, kifesh dorka habou itab3uha!!" :))))), I have to explain it to
her because it's NOT her Native language..
But she undersatands the folowing:
Salem a3likum wa salem 3ala Mohamed nabiyuna ashrafu el-morsalin !
Salem a3la h'babna wa nsebna wa salem a3la kul el-djazairein kamlin!
Salem 3ala Baya el-Bahya, a3la bent bentek Huda, Naima, Dalila wa
el-Yasmin.
Hadi kelma min Biskra bent Sahra, ouled el-kerma wa el-ourouba el-moumnin!
Natleb rebbi ikun m3akum, wa ma kun ghir el-kheir wa hadhu sninin fatou
a3lina djamrin.
Rih el-guebli rahu yadhrub, wa lef3a khardjet m' rmel wa el-Djamou3i
qorssetu dhabent "Tsi Tsin).
Wa rah yat3adheb fi elfresh, wa illa ta3arfu kesh tbib wa dwa lel mardh
hada, Kunu maa3an Ya Khawet el-Mouhsinin!
Asmaa!
Ya Nassir ya Ibn el-3ouraba, Ouled el-Djazair mazalhum fi hadi dnya hayeen.
Kima iqoulou fi el-bled illa ma amantounesh, atuna bi bourhanikum illa
kuntum min sadqueen!
Lughatna 3arbia mashi adjnabia, el-burhane wadheh wa elli ma 3andu shahed
s'bah min el-kadhbeen..
Barkana walla yazzina kima igoulou s'hab qssantsina wa s'shab diaspora
chawia lewleen!
Ma a3la balek wash rak tahder rak ghir taqli wa taqleb, wa rak hasseb ouled
Dzair h'mir bella oudhnine!..
Slat wa siyem ferdh a3likum, mashi el-harb wa el-3ounsaria, haduk illa
khdayem el-moudjrim ahlu shayateen!.
Rak fahem a3lya walla habit nzid an3awed lek b' lughat el-moutanebbi, abi
nouwess wa shu3ara el-djahleen.
Fodil(be dhad).
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:38F61096...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Fodil wrote:
> > >
> >
> > > EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS STANDARD DERJA spoken in ALGIERS, and that is a
> > > Fact..Because people from the EAST, WEST, SOUTH, NORTH have ties and
> > > relatives in ALGIERS, Algiers is the CAPITAL of the ALGERIANS..
> > >
> > > And there is NO french nor berber words in Algerian Arabic..
> >
> > On the berber, you're wrong. And it's idiotic to insist that Algerian
> > Arabic is pure Arabic with only the pronunciation different. These were
>
> In Algeria, the STREET language does exist, actually WORDS spoken only on
> the STREETS, it's like in the US..Youngesters do have their own ways of
> STREET talk, and they better NOT use the same terms at home. In other words,
> there is Slang in the slang itself..But the Home slang is the Purest, and
> it's ALL Arabic, it started as ALL ARABIC and other words got introduced
> gradually with time, and I'm NOT surprised that many words are of BERBER
> origin!, so?, there is NO difference, berber or arabic sound the same to
> me..Your personal experiences can't be compared in this matter, you have to
> know the language before you can compare yourself to it..Sorry, but you
> miss..
> There is STANDARD Arabic derja with NO FRENCH words in it.period..>
I didn't say that there had to be French words in it, Fodil. One thing
has nothing to do with the other. Obviously, it didn't have French in it
before the French invasion. However, it does have Tamazight words, and
the fact that to you the two are the same doesn't mean they are.
> ALGEROIS is the PUREST ARABIC in ALGERIA, because ALGIERS is the capital of
> the ALGERIANS, and it IS.>>
Give me a break. Pure Arabic my foot.
>.Go Ask them to find STRANGE words of UNKNOWN
> origin in the ALGEROIS (excluding street talk),>
What's that got to do with being pure? It can be known, and it won't be
Arabic in all cases, and even where it seems to be Arabic, it might not
have actually come from Arabic, but an older language.
> there is NONE, but there are
> plenty in the East, the West and the south..L'Algerois is as pure as the
> Algerian arabic can be..and that is a FACT and it is NOT debatable...>>
I'd like to hear one single person not from Algiers who would agree with
you.
Olivier Martre
1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber.
L'anglais est un mélange incohérent de dialectes germaniques, de français,
de latin, d'apports celtiques, etc...
Le français est un mélange incohérent de bas-latin, d'apports celtiques,
germaniques, ibériques, arabes, etc...
Cela n'a pas trop nui à leur efficacité et à leur développement, non?
> Attempting to
> put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and feeling
> part of their glorious past.
Les italiens et les allemands auraient pu tenir le même raisonnement, et
l'allemand ou l'italien moderne n'aurait jamais existé. En Italie, par
exemple, l'italien s'est constitué très tardivement, fin XIXème siècle, sous
forme d'une norme commune autour du dialecte toscan qui évolue encore
aujourd'hui, les divers dialectes se maintenant plus ou moins en fonction
des régions, et continuant à influer sur la norme commune, avec en prime de
nombreux
apports étrangers
> When the french invaders and their puppets in
> the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic, now
> they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> replacement.
Même si c'est un rite bien installé de tout mettre sur le dos de la France,
cela me semble bien illusoire, et ne vise finalement qu'à esquiver le débat.
> It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it, when
> the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in this
> street language.
N'importe quoi. Vous déniez aux gens le droit de parler et d'être fier de
leur langue maternelle, et vous prétendez que ceux qui l'étudient les
insultent.
>It was with great resentment that the African American
> leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
Vous confondez majorité et minorité et vous entrez dans le jeu américain
idiot des minorités opprimées et de la guerre des races, des sexes, des
cultures, de tout.
Comment pouvez-vous comparer les algériens arabophones parlant les
différentes formes d'arabe algérien, qui représentent la très grosse
majorité des algériens, avec une minorité marginalisée?
Nasir T.
people, like myself, may find incomprehensible. It is not the spelling
though. For example a BISKRI never says KESH, but KESHMA! They don't also
say OULED EL-KERMA, since EL-KERMA is a fruit tree, but OULED INNIF WAL
LIZMIYA to mean "sons of generosity," if this is what you meant. The word
BAHYA is rarely used, and only to answer some questions to mean yes, they
say BA-HI. However this is more far to the East near the border with
Tunisia that the word BAHI and BAH-YA is used. In order to say what you
meant they say BAHA AZZAYNA. But the name BAHA is never used to call a
female. The name BAHI for BRAHIM, like ALLA for ALI, KADA for ABDEL KADER
or KADDOUR, BADDA for BADRE-EDDINE, and so goes BASSI, DASSI, 'HMAIDA,
...etc. A famous BISKRI singer, boxer, cyclist, soccer player, and crowd
mover and shaker is BAHI ERROUH, for BRAHIM THE SPIRIT. A true BISKRI does
not know EL-GUEBLI, but rather ESH-SHERGUI. EL-GUEBLI is more of a BOUSAADI
and HODHNI than BISKRI. The killer though was DHEBBENT 'TSI TSIN! A BISKRI
and many of the Southern AARAB will tell you about ANAARA or ENNAMOUS but
not this 'TSI TSIN. And there are plenty if you say in BISKRA, BATNA, SOUF,
ARRABAH, MSILA, BOUSSAADA, BLAD 'NMEMCHA, TEBESSA or anywhere in those
regions in your passage will only bring so much GHASHI around yourself to
watch you speak, and wonder which planet did you land from.
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2v2K4.31525$y4.11...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:K0rJ4.2704$WF.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > That's exactly the problem. The DERJA of Algiers is one of the worst
and
> > the most french corrupted ones in Algeria. The minute you open up the
> door
> > for DERJA everyone will scream FOULI TAYYAB, and it you in Algiers now
who
> > thinks that Algiers fava beans are "cookables!" I bet the same thing
will
> > be claimed by everyone else, including OULED DARRAJ in BARIKA and MSILA.
> > You see what DARIJA can do, it will divide the country.
> >
>
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:38F61096...@worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Fodil wrote:
> > > >
> > >
a
> > > > Fact..Because people from the EAST, WEST, SOUTH, NORTH have ties and
> > > > relatives in ALGIERS, Algiers is the CAPITAL of the ALGERIANS..
> > > >
> > > > And there is NO french nor berber words in Algerian Arabic..
> > >
> > > Arabic is pure Arabic with only the pronunciation different. These
were
> >
> > In Algeria, the STREET language does exist, actually WORDS spoken only
on
> > the STREETS, it's like in the US..Youngesters do have their own ways of
> > STREET talk, and they better NOT use the same terms at home. In other
words,
> > there is Slang in the slang itself..But the Home slang is the Purest,
and
> > it's ALL Arabic, it started as ALL ARABIC and other words got introduced
> > gradually with time, and I'm NOT surprised that many words are of BERBER
> > origin!, so?, there is NO difference, berber or arabic sound the same to
> > me..Your personal experiences can't be compared in this matter, you have
to
> > know the language before you can compare yourself to it..Sorry, but you
> > miss..
> > There is STANDARD Arabic derja with NO FRENCH words in it.period..>
>
> I didn't say that there had to be French words in it, Fodil. One thing
> has nothing to do with the other. Obviously, it didn't have French in it
> before the French invasion. However, it does have Tamazight words, and
> the fact that to you the two are the same doesn't mean they are.
>
>
arabic, therefore they should stay out..Those french words are arabized
french words and there is no need for them, one does NOt need to say
tonobile where the word siyara is the right word and many more examples,
standard arabic words can be used to replace the missing words that were
never available then, for sure car didn't exist thousand year ago, it makes
more sense to use "Siyara" instead of tonobile or voitura..
>
> > ALGEROIS is the PUREST ARABIC in ALGERIA, because ALGIERS is the capital
of
> > the ALGERIANS, and it IS.>>
>
> Give me a break. Pure Arabic my foot.
HOW do you know!, you don't know the language, you never speak it, you
probably heard it..it is 100% ARABIC and NOT hebrew..
>
> >.Go Ask them to find STRANGE words of UNKNOWN
> > origin in the ALGEROIS (excluding street talk),>
>
> What's that got to do with being pure? It can be known, and it won't be
> Arabic in all cases, and even where it seems to be Arabic, it might not
> have actually come from Arabic, but an older language.
>
What I'm saying is you don't find STRANGE foreign NON-ARABIC words in the
ALGEROIS and that is a fact, Algerian Arabic must be ARABIC in its SPOKEN
from, it came from ARABIC and NOT from HEBREW, NOT HEBREW..probably from
punic whic is an OLD ARABIC language! NOT HEBREW!.., there is NO HEBREW
words in Algerian Arabic, the JEWS used ARABIC in their daily lives..
If you know the language, show me Algerian ARABIC words that are not ARABIC,
it is that simple as that, it is the same language as that of the QURAN
which is 100% ARABIC.
Conclusion: The Spoken Arabic spoken in greater Algiers is the language of
ALL the ALGERIANS and that is a FACT, it's the same language people in Batna
and Khenchla speak, the same in Wahrane, Constantine and the Sahara, and
of course the accent differ from one city to an other (in some cases), and
sometimes the cities are NOT even 100 miles apart, and I know what I'm
talking about and apparently you have NO clue!, why are you arguing with
me?, you are suposed to learn from me about me and you CAN"t teach me about
me, so stop claiming to be me and start being YOURSELF..Algerians are
Algerians and their native language is the ALGERIAN ARABIC, and it does NOT
matter what regions they are from.period, the Guidelines of the Algerian
arabic can be found in ALGIERS, because Algiers is the ONLY ALGERIAN city
for ALL, it representst ALL and everybody, the melting pot of ALL Algerians,
therefore all can be find there, everything else is just a sub-set of it,
Algiers is the main SET and I was NOT born in Algiers nor in el-Harrach, but
I know Kmiss yesser an Beni amrane that Massine the amazigh havs no
clue..Facts are Facts and they should remain so, just FACTS and NO FAKE!.
Fodil
Fodil
> I honest a God find many strange expressions in your DARJA, that many lay
> people, like myself, may find incomprehensible. It is not the spelling
> though. For example a BISKRI never says KESH, but KESHMA! They don't
also
> say OULED EL-KERMA, since EL-KERMA is a fruit tree, but OULED INNIF WAL
> LIZMIYA to mean "sons of generosity," if this is what you meant.
Mashi el-kerma taa el-bakhssis, I meant el-karama, you see in ALGIERS
ARABIC-ARABIC is spoken, not other unknown words..Ouled nnif is used
everywhere because it is 100% arabic, LIZMIYA is NOT arabic at all!,
therefore it has NO arabic meaning..I know you hate people from Algiers, and
trust me I was NOT born neither lived in the heart of algiers noir in
el-Harach..
Kesh or keshma is the same, People in Biskra know how to use Algerois
expressions when adressing people in algiers .
The word
> BAHYA is rarely used, and only to answer some questions to mean yes, they
> say BA-HI. However this is more far to the East near the border with
It does NOT matter where it is oftenly used, but everybody in ALGERIA knows
BAHYa and BAHIA, it is probaly used more in ORAN than in Algiers..
> Tunisia that the word BAHI and BAH-YA is used. In order to say what you
> meant they say BAHA AZZAYNA. But the name BAHA is never used to call a
> female.
It's not used to call a female relaxed, but I USE it, and only I, because I
know that ALL ALGERIANS know it, regadless of ther fact that they use it or
NOT, it's an algerian ARABIC word known to ALL.
The name BAHI for BRAHIM, like ALLA for ALI, KADA for ABDEL KADER
> or KADDOUR, BADDA for BADRE-EDDINE, and so goes BASSI, DASSI, 'HMAIDA,
> ...etc. A famous BISKRI singer, boxer, cyclist, soccer player, and crowd
> mover and shaker is BAHI ERROUH, for BRAHIM THE SPIRIT. A true BISKRI
does
> not know EL-GUEBLI, but rather ESH-SHERGUI. EL-GUEBLI is more of a
BOUSAADI
What are you trying to prove!?, that Biskri does NOt know RIH el-Guebli!?,
what's your point, I know also the word SHERGUI, but I used Guebli, I did
NOT the BISKRI, do you know RIH azfzef! wa tofan!??
> and HODHNI than BISKRI. The killer though was DHEBBENT 'TSI TSIN! A
BISKRI
Of course TSI TSI is NOT ARABIC, I just used it, it just came to my mind,
probably only the educated algeriains know "the tsi tsi fly"
> and many of the Southern AARAB will tell you about ANAARA or ENNAMOUS but
> not this 'TSI TSIN. And there are plenty if you say in BISKRA, BATNA,
SOUF,
I know that, I even SMILED when I wrote it down!, RELAX, is there any SENSE
of humor where you came from!?, you always sound angry and ready to fight!!
> ARRABAH, MSILA, BOUSSAADA, BLAD 'NMEMCHA, TEBESSA or anywhere in those
> regions in your passage will only bring so much GHASHI around yourself to
> watch you speak, and wonder which planet did you land from.
Nasir, ZID fih!, go take a shower and cool off!,
EVERY ALGERIAN UNDERSTANDS the Language SPOKEN in ALGIERS, because ALGIERS
is the ONLY city of ALL ALGERIANS and that is a FACT.
Some will tell you Ruh terbeh, I say Zid Fih!.got it!..
Fodil
>
>
> "Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:2v2K4.31525$y4.11...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:K0rJ4.2704$WF.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > That's exactly the problem. The DERJA of Algiers is one of the worst
> and
> > > the most french corrupted ones in Algeria. The minute you open up the
> > door
> > > for DERJA everyone will scream FOULI TAYYAB, and it you in Algiers now
> who
> > > thinks that Algiers fava beans are "cookables!" I bet the same thing
> will
> > > be claimed by everyone else, including OULED DARRAJ in BARIKA and
MSILA.
> > > You see what DARIJA can do, it will divide the country.
> > >
> >
> > Come on!, there is ONE derja, it's ARABIC without Shakl wa nehwe was
ssarf
> > wa kana wa akhawatiha..What foulek ttayeb, ttaybu l'rouhek..
> > If I speak to a Sahraoui, he'll understand me, because Fouli is Foulou
> > also..Just don't use the FRENCH words when speaking the algerian arabic
to
> > the mass, that's all..
> >
> > Just don't do it like Kaid Ahmed used to..
> >
> > As far as Huda is concerned, HUDA is the First name of ONE of my several
> my
> > NIECES (honnest truth)..But if my mother heard the expression: "Wa salem
> > aala min taba3a el-Huda", she, for sure will stop me and ask me to
explain
> > to her the proper meaning..She might think : "Ya oulidi bent khtek
> mazal'ha
> > sghira!!?, kifesh dorka habou itab3uha!!" :))))), I have to explain it
to
Fodil
Na3oura is NOT a fly(mashi nemoussa), but some sort of a WASP, shgoul nahla
el-3amia..
Na3oura used to bite the donkeys and the mules, wa anta rah bayen a3lik
shghoul qorssetek kesh Na3oura wa bdit tzaaret ghir wahdek,
riyeh(ag3oud.wala qanbe3, guimez(lybian)) fi madhrbek ma aandek ma thadji wa
tferri wahdek, a3la balli wash kayen fi dmaghek, el-Djazairyeen a3rab bessah
mashi ahlu Sa3oud!, mazalhum Djazaryeen wa Meslmeen wa lew yahdhar fiha rih
zefzef wa moudjet ttofan, rih el-guebli houwa sirocco, wa rih shergui
shghoul rih zefzef taa tahdeem wa el-irhab, wa afhem ya elfahem, ana ngoul
lek wa anta "trduiziha, tardjamha, aqraha" kima habit. Wa el-ballout,
megraman, shouk h'mar, elguendoul, shouk lelben 3andkum fi bledkum walla
mazal ma adkhl koumsh?. Roubama aandkum shih wa zaater, rayeh "trankil"
walla idakhlou lkoum kulshi!, mashi ghir shouk wa rih el-geubli..Wa
zermoumia kifash tazgou lha fi bledkoum?, wa antouma tqoulou "qanfouha",
3ala balek shkoun iqoulo yakhi qanfouha yakhi!, qanfouhet shadi taa sheffa
dja yazhar a3lina wa haseb rouhou sbaa!?? Ah! Ah!..Take it easy!..
Asmaa ya rass el-httab!, ma tqoulish el-3asker darou halla wa anta djay
tamna3 ness min el-hurria eli a3taha lhum rebbi!..
3ala kuli hal ma ighidhaksh el-hal, rani berk ndjib bik zoudj!, ana rani
nssit bezzaf "les proverbes, el-m3ani" taa elbled, wa rani tweheshthoum,
dorka nadhrub "tilifoune" yaattu li kamel el-burhane, dallil wa tarikh.
Nass ki b'halek wa haduk eli takrahoum antaya, kunna nezgoulhum "Qom
el-Kawitchou!", dorka kayen "tchi tchi" fi dzair wa la COGNOTE taa
el-qbayel(mashi gaa el-qbyael, 0.5% berk) gana daru halla be tzenzigh wa ma
shubiha dhalik..Houma igoilou lek Rouh terbeh, bellek rebbi keshma idjib
lek..wa ana nqoul lek Zid Fih, ma qbal ma izid a3lik el-hal!, rak shwia
bayen a3lik andek el-hemma safra!..:)))) Take care, Wa Allah niyeti safia..
By the way there is a difference between Kesh and kesh ma?
Ex: Kesh ma aandkum?, kesh ma sra lkum?, kessh ma dartou?,and KESH hadja
djdida dajbtouha?, ma tqoulish ahlu el-Afghan wa ma shubiha dhalik, hadhadk
shi Hram wa la yadjouz..
Fodil(be dhad)
azo charif
azo charif
> Maghreb, they are the only components that can link us to the Maghreb..
>
> Fodil
which fodil wrote the foregoing..definitely it is not the usual fodil i
know..
subhan allah mubiddul el ahwal we el elbab..
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DHTI4.21119$y4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber. Attempting
> to
> > put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> > cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and
feeling
> > part of their glorious past. When the french invaders and their puppets
> in
> > the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic, now
> > they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> > replacement. It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it,
> when
> > the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in
this
> > street language. It was with great resentment that the African American
> > leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> > instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> > resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> > prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
> >
>
> Nassir,
>
> Derja means spoken Algerian arabic, it has no FRENCH in it, some french
> words were added after the colonization. Derja should stay ALIVE in the
> algerian culture, it should remain alive in our music and our daily
> conversations and I believe that even the president should address the
> Algerians in it. There is no arab country that speak a pure form of
arabic,
> if there is, name it!..
>
> >
> >
>
>
azo charif
when will you stop attacking defensless women?..
ya ould el kalba how many babies and women you raped and slaughtered
before you left the old country how much jewellery you've stolen from poor
helpless women ..do you think you will get away with all that? ...i dont
think so ..remember the saying:'youmehhil wa la yumhil' ya kerfa ya
attaille ya rkhis ..
Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:bW9J4.1603$PV.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> M rs. Scholar Lady, the one who wishes to be called a bitch, dreams of
doing
> another woman, fantasizes about two men, encourages homosexuality such as
it
> is practiced in france, and dreams of widespread bestiality as she
imagines
> in Egypt, now has another weird Ph.D. thesis to prove something about
DARJA.
>
> Well, call your auntie and tell her is it ok to say AHZAGTIHA AALA ANNA
> ANTAA SCA, and tell us what she would tell you. If your auntie
understands
> BISKRI, she woyuld tell you to go easy on us in SCA and talk in simple
> language and not be so difficult. If she does not, and I am sure she does
> not she would laugh and will never forget the day when you said that you
> have AHZAGTIHA.
>
> Go ahead, it is not as bad as when Mrs. Scholar Lady, the one who wishes
to
> be called a bitch, dreams of doing another woman, fantasizes about two
men,
> encourages homosexuality such as it is practiced in france, and dreams of
> widespread bestiality as she imagines in Egypt, now has another weird
Ph.D.
> thesis to prove something about DARJA.
>
>
> "bmadani" <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:38F526EA...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > "Nasir T." wrote:
> > >
> > > DERJA of Algiers, and the major cities in general use a lot of french
in
> it,
> > > and it is more of a fad and cultural submission to colonial france
than
> > > anything.
> >
> > It is not a cultural submission. It's a process. That's how languages
> > remain alive and grow. One adapts foreign words and makes them one's
> > own.
> >
> > DERJA of the country side uses mainly Arabic, or in some regions
> > > Berber, with of course and understandably so, plenty of country
accent.
> > > This is not simply a matter of accent, just as is the difference
between
> a
> > > Texan and a Bostonian in English, but more in the vocabulary and
grammar
> > > since one bases his spoken language on the native languages, Arabic
and
> > > Berber, and the other corrupts it to some extent with french.>
> >
> > My aunt-in-law doesn't know a word of French but she understands both
> > Algerois and Wahrani, so it can't be all that different.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I am sorry but I don't agree with you at all of respecting Algerians
> meaning
> > > to replace the Arabic language with the DERIJA. ADDARIJA is a street
> > > language, and should not invade any corridors of the schools,
> government,
> > > and the official business buildings of the Algerian people.>
> >
> > Why not?
> >
> > It is however
> > > permissible for the DARIJA to be utilized where it is currently used.>
> >
> > I'm sure the people thank you for small favors. It would have left some
> > mute otherwise.
> >
> > > The
> > > DARIJA has served so far as a transitional medium between an all
> > > francophonized administrative system to a more standard one that is
> based on
> > > the native language of the people: Arabic.>
> >
> > If you're speaking of classical or modern standard Arabic, that is no
> > one's native language, unless you're from the right tribe in Saudi
> > Arabia.
> >
> > > The more time passes the less
> > > francophnized this DARIJA become.
> >
> > It's never going to be pure Arabic. If not French, it will be something
> > else, but people do pick up foreign words through the media, business,
> > technology, etc.
> >
> > We should not waist time and energy to
> > > render this incoherent Esperanto into a language, and try to define it
> as a
> > > language with grammar, vocabulary and syntax.>>
> >
> > It has grammar, vocabulary, and syntax. It is a language by the
> > definition of a language. It is plain snobbery to say otherwise.
> >
> > It is not a language in this
> > > sense. >>
> >
> > It most certainly is. It is obvious you do not have any knowledge of
> > linguistics.
> >
> > It does not have literature or any influence on literature and
> > > science to support its use.>
> >
> > That has nothing to do with having a viable language. The literature can
> > come if people want it to. English didn't have any literature until
> > Shakespeare. Before that it was all oral tradition. Arabic didn't have
> > any influence on science until after it learned from the Greek, and then
> > made its dent. It just takes using the language in that direction. No
> > language is incapable of this.
> >
> > More importantly it is changing in time and
> > > what was true about it in 1965, was not in 1975, which and neither the
> > > previous was in 1985, which and all the previous were not in 1995, and
> most
> > > likely will not be in 2005 and beyond. >>
> >
> > Living languages develop. They are not static. If they are, they are
> > dead and useless. Even Modern Standard Arabic is not Classical Arabic,
> > and it is not exactly the same everywhere. There are some differences in
> > the use of vocabulary. Not major, but there was a PhD dissertation on
> > this subject where Lebanese journalists and Egyptian journalists were
> > compared in their use and understanding of media Arabic, and it was
> > found that they did not always understand the same thing because words
> > were used differently in the two countries. And this was written
> > (formal) modern standard Arabic.
>
>
Nasir T.
However, I would not also claim that Algiers dialect or someone else's is
better than any other one. From my own experience and if I were to choose I
would really wish have head the tongue of a SOUFI for it excels than many
places in the world to describe every situation with the best a language can
do. I have grown among the SOUAFA and liked every minute of it. There are
other traits that are unique to every other region, and the whole would make
one complete united and strong nation. That was my message from the
beginning, and it did never change. It angers me a lot to see some
regionalist claim one ethnic group to have credits for everything, and that
is wrong. Be it a Berberist, an Arabist, a DZIRI, WAHRANI, or a BOUSSAADI,
it makes no difference to me. We are in it together, and DARIJA which is
better than french by far as a language, still is not good enough to bond
Algerians. Algeria's languages are Arabic, SHAWIA, QBAILIA (two versions
'NNIGHAS and ALHADRA,) RIGHIA, TARGUIA, and LIMZABIA. Needless to say that
there are different dialects of all of these languages from one region to
the next, and in the day and age of communication they should not be allowed
to evolve to other languages which could hurt Algeria's future.
By the way LIZMIYA is also rooted in Arabic: IL-TIZAM, meaning strong
engagement and responsibility, which goes with 'NNIF. So if you don't know
it, that's because maybe you need to consult an Arabic dictionary. I am
sure that the word LAZEM is used in Algiers to mean engagement in the sense
of "must."
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:m16K4.32043$y4.11...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Nasir T.
these countries is not necessarily true for our country. One main
difference in these languages is that they are all either Grecko-Germanic
and/or Latin based. In a sense they are all European languages, which
evolved into more sophisticated languages, with use of foreign words which
did not exist before in their language. Case in point they all borrowed
from the Arabic the word SUCRE and ZERO for example, because they did not
exist in their languages. But this does not in an incoherent fashion.
There are well established rules when to use SUCRE and ZERO. The Arabic
language, which is mainly an Eastern Semitic language, also borrowed and
interacted with other languages, including the European ones. Case in point
are two words IMBERIALIA and DIMOQRATIA. However there are also well
established rules on how to use these words. Now it is safe to say that
SUCRE and ZERO are french words for example since they took their place in
it, and so are the words IMBERIALIA and DIMOQRATIA in Arabic. This is not
the case for Algerian slang, though. There are absolutely no rules,
grammar, vocabulary, let alone characters to support the use of anything:
It is a very chaotic medium of communication that has absolutely no value in
it other than to quickly so anything. In many cases the speaker, if he or
she chooses to speak it, must first gauge and study his audience in a
hypocritical fashion to decide what doses of french would serve his needs.
If he or she thinks that they are influenced and he needed to advance his
cause he must communicate to them more in french. If his audience is mainly
peasant, then he becomes, at least in his mind, stupid and talk in lay-man
terms with more Arabic in it. This where the problem lies: Algerian slang
is more of a culturally defeated way of communication that a language. It
still serves the french colonial mentality. Fortunately though, it has
shown tremendous improvement in the forty years of Algiers independence and
is more charged with Pride and Arabic, yet it still far from reaching its
goal of independent medium of communication.
As to the issue of EBONICS in the comparison is very true. In the US, the
reason why JESSE JACKSON, and African American leaders opposed the use of it
in schools is simply to instill negative stereotypes in the African American
youth, by telling them you are not smart enough to learn English.
Fortunately, the Bay Area School Board in California, returned on its
decision to go ahead and teach EBONICS instead of English to African
American neighborhoods. In Algeria, it would be exactly counter-productive
and racially discriminatory to send the same message to Algeria's youth,
that you are smart enough only to learn street language: DARIJA. Even here
the comparison is a little bit weak, since EBONICS is still mainly based on
English but with loose grammatical rules, and poor in vocabulary. DARIJA is
worst than that since it does have grammar and a very changing vocabulary
that fluctuates at random between french, Arabic, Berber and at times other
languages such as English.
"Olivier Martre" <Olivier...@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:8dafp9$cp9$1...@wanadoo.fr...
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> a écrit dans le message :
> 1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber.
>
> L'anglais est un mélange incohérent de dialectes germaniques, de français,
> de latin, d'apports celtiques, etc...
>
> Le français est un mélange incohérent de bas-latin, d'apports celtiques,
> germaniques, ibériques, arabes, etc...
>
> Cela n'a pas trop nui à leur efficacité et à leur développement, non?
>
> > Attempting to
> > put DERJA in any higher order amounts to simply promoting ignorance,
> > cultural suicide, and denying future Algerians from accepting and
feeling
> > part of their glorious past.
>
> Les italiens et les allemands auraient pu tenir le même raisonnement, et
> l'allemand ou l'italien moderne n'aurait jamais existé. En Italie, par
> exemple, l'italien s'est constitué très tardivement, fin XIXème siècle,
sous
> forme d'une norme commune autour du dialecte toscan qui évolue encore
> aujourd'hui, les divers dialectes se maintenant plus ou moins en fonction
> des régions, et continuant à influer sur la norme commune, avec en prime
de
> nombreux
> apports étrangers
>
> > When the french invaders and their puppets in
> > the government failed to promote french as an alternative to Arabic, now
> > they are compromising their demands from us by letting DERJA as the
> > replacement.
>
> Même si c'est un rite bien installé de tout mettre sur le dos de la
France,
> cela me semble bien illusoire, et ne vise finalement qu'à esquiver le
débat.
>
> > It is with great insult that we Algerians are taking it, when
> > the francophonist insist that we are only smart enough to converse in
this
> > street language.
>
> N'importe quoi. Vous déniez aux gens le droit de parler et d'être fier de
> leur langue maternelle, et vous prétendez que ceux qui l'étudient les
> insultent.
>
> >It was with great resentment that the African American
> > leadership in the USA rejected the teaching of EBONICS in the schools
> > instead of English in the African American communities, and we have to
> > resent DERJA with even more force since it is simply as racist and
> > prejudicial against all Algerians and not any minority therein.
>
brahim benbrahim
Un linguiste pourrait peut être intervenir pour nous spécifier la différence
entre "langue" et "dialecte".
.
BB
Nasir T. a écrit:
Fethi&Di
"brahim benbrahim" wrote ...
> Saha,
> Un linguiste pourrait peut être intervenir pour nous spécifier la différence
> entre "langue" et "dialecte".
Okay, let's give a trial,
*dialect =
The usage or vocabulary that is characteristic of a specific group of people.
*Language =
1. A systematic means of communicating by the use of sounds or conventional symbols
2. Communication by word of mouth
3. A system of words used in a particular discipline
4. The cognitive processes involved in producing and understanding linguistic communication
5. The mental faculty or power of vocal communication
6 The text of a popular song or musical-comedy number.
*dialect =
Synonym : accent/idiom...etc
Type of : non-standard speech....etc
Types : patois.....etc
*Language =
Synonyms : words/speech/nomenclature/lyric....etc
Type of : word/ communication/auditory communication...etc
Types : words/artificial language/source language....etc
I hope i shined up your mind.
Comme je vois, le dialecte est la base de la langue.
Un vocabulaire qui s'est octroyé une grammaire et des regles pour devenir une langue.
L'etre est un geni.
Salutations.
Fodil
> No, I don't hate Algiers or its people. No true Algerian can do that.
> However, I would not also claim that Algiers dialect or someone else's is
> better than any other one. From my own experience and if I were to choose
I
> would really wish have head the tongue of a SOUFI for it excels than many
> places in the world to describe every situation with the best a language
can
> do. I have grown among the SOUAFA and liked every minute of it. There are
I didn't say that the Algerois is the best, you said that it is the worse
because Algerois use many french words. I'm telling that you are wrong, and
it is a FACT that there is NO french words in the language spoken in Greater
algiers and vicinities, needless to say that some Algerois tend to use more
french than the ones from M'SILA!..
But Algerois is the Purest, if you don't believe me, go ahead and find a
non-arabic word spoken in the Algerois (excluding the street talk like
schkoopi, mayna wa ruh biha...."
For example, they don't say berbousha??!, what kind of word is this, but
Berkoukes exist!!, Berkoukes is derived from Baraka..
In Setif, they say Oumma lali lali wa s'tif el-3ali, sobba rashrah wa trig
b3ida, khoya madjash wa rani m'ridha, youmma lali wa rahi tshali (hadi
zad'tha min 3andi)..
Algerians do speak Algerian Language, Algiers is the capital of all
Algerians and NOT Oued souf??!!, therefore the prototytpe is Algerois and
there is no doubt about it, this does not make the Algeroi the best, but it
is the purest!!.
Just listen to the CHAABI and if you find a non-arabic word, come and tralk
to us..Remember Chaabi is one of the oldest..
Algerian Arabic link ALL Algerians.
Standar/Classical Arabic link all the Muslims in Algeria..
Fodil
> other traits that are unique to every other region, and the whole would
make
> one complete united and strong nation. That was my message from the
> beginning, and it did never change. It angers me a lot to see some
> regionalist claim one ethnic group to have credits for everything, and
that
> is wrong. Be it a Berberist, an Arabist, a DZIRI, WAHRANI, or a
BOUSSAADI,
> it makes no difference to me. We are in it together, and DARIJA which is
> better than french by far as a language, still is not good enough to bond
> Algerians. Algeria's languages are Arabic, SHAWIA, QBAILIA (two versions
> 'NNIGHAS and ALHADRA,) RIGHIA, TARGUIA, and LIMZABIA. Needless to say
that
> there are different dialects of all of these languages from one region to
> the next, and in the day and age of communication they should not be
allowed
> to evolve to other languages which could hurt Algeria's future.
Makash min ha :origine :ma kana shi min ha)
Kesh ma(not keshma, it's two words) = Ka ay shi ma..
LIZMIYA, shgoul DIGOURDI :AH!! AH!!, do you know what "digourdi" means?,
it's NOT arabic..We say F'hal or F'hula (pluriel)..
Ya Nassir: A3rib el-djoumla el-atia
El-Bakhssis idji min el-kerma wa el-karama min djazairiya!.
Inna Nassira bi el-Ouroubati Dhakirun, wa Mouzaqziqoun!
Laqd Astada Foxun Nassira fi shabeketi..
Asmaa ya Nassir, dorka telfelouk elhssabet, ardja3t ghir tatkhbet wahdek ki
3azii elli hakmettou elfekha!!..
Wa el-an anta Lazem tbni sqeff jdid aala khater(a la Fellag) tar lek
el-qarmoud, wa lew kan tdzid shiwa b' el-hbel taak, haduk zoudj qarmoudet
elli b'qwlek yadi houm rih eSHERGUI!..
Fi Dzair el-hadra b' el-Mizan:
Wahed el-merra 3ami slimane "nirva" 3ami dahmane, a3la khatesh 3ami Slimane
"Guarda" a double SIX!, wa ma doumensh!??,3ami Dahmane hakmouh les "nerfs",
wa zaaf wa qalu "ke ti bete, ke ti bete, ya Slimane!!", kifash atguardui
double six!??, 3ami Slimane qalou antuma b' el-3arab kulshi b' el-maktoub wa
el-kutibet!..
If I tell you "ke ti bete, ke ti bete" wash tafhem?,
Kima igoulu el-3djayez "illi maktouba fi el-djbeen ma inahouha el-yadeen",
wa hada shi maktoub a3likum..
Salem aalyakum wa Salem 3ala min taba3a el-Huda!
Fodil
> >
>
>
Fodil
azo charif <a...@chari.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8db5md$abn$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > All berber languages/dialects and Derja are essential elements of the
> > Maghreb, they are the only components that can link us to the Maghreb..
> >
> > Fodil
> which fodil wrote the foregoing..definitely it is not the usual fodil i
> know..
> subhan allah mubiddul el ahwal we el elbab..
>
>
15/2+
Fodil
>
> Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:DHTI4.21119$y4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:1pOI4.2533$fV.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > DERJA is an incoherent mixture of Arabic, french and Berber.
Attempting
> > to
Nasir T.
in french. If the Algeroi evolves as other dialects do, or better, in
Algeria this most certainly will make it not bad. But not best. For that
there is one dialect that is best. Maybe there is somewhere in Algeria a
better dialect, and in my judgement, which is not scientific at all, it is
the SOUFI dialect. This probably will raise the issue of which is the
better dialect in Algeria now, and it could be really academic in nature no
more and non-consequential as far as the society and people. Algerians are
all alike and should be given the same opportunity, be it AlgeROI or
AlgeRIEN. For that we are AlgeRIEN and proud of it, and would love and do
everything to see our brothers the AlgeROI in the same boat with us. And
the same remark holds true for STAIFIA or LOUHARNA or someone else with the
same level of interest.
As to CHAABI, which you seem to like very match, it could be conceived very
slow and not as rhythmic as SOB ARRACHRACH, and hence could not work for
everyone in every occasion. If it is up to me, I say lets have MENNA-I,
KHLIFI AHMED, and CHAABI together with SOB ARRACHRACH too. That does not
hurt at all, specially if it served on a plate of BERBOUCHA, or BERKOUKES
which no BISKRI by the way knows what that is but could very well propose
instead BOUM-FAWAR or AICH HAR OU HAMETH BIL-TMATEM EL NASH-FA OU FILFIL
AL-HAR 'NTAA AZAAB.
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4prK4.34678$y4.12...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:tUkK4.11027$fV.9...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > No, I don't hate Algiers or its people. No true Algerian can do that.
> > However, I would not also claim that Algiers dialect or someone else's
is
> > better than any other one. From my own experience and if I were to
choose
> I
> > would really wish have head the tongue of a SOUFI for it excels than
many
> > places in the world to describe every situation with the best a language
> can
> > do. I have grown among the SOUAFA and liked every minute of it. There
are
>
> > other traits that are unique to every other region, and the whole would
> make
> > one complete united and strong nation. That was my message from the
> > beginning, and it did never change. It angers me a lot to see some
> > regionalist claim one ethnic group to have credits for everything, and
> that
> > is wrong. Be it a Berberist, an Arabist, a DZIRI, WAHRANI, or a
> BOUSSAADI,
> > it makes no difference to me. We are in it together, and DARIJA which
is
> > better than french by far as a language, still is not good enough to
bond
> > Algerians. Algeria's languages are Arabic, SHAWIA, QBAILIA (two
versions
> > 'NNIGHAS and ALHADRA,) RIGHIA, TARGUIA, and LIMZABIA. Needless to say
> that
> > there are different dialects of all of these languages from one region
to
> > the next, and in the day and age of communication they should not be
> allowed
> > to evolve to other languages which could hurt Algeria's future.
>
diasp...@my-deja.com
"Fodil" <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> (excluding the street talk like schkoopi, mayna wa ruh biha...."
Mayna(bravo)is mainstream! Don't you think?
> For example, they don't say berbousha??!, what kind of word is this
Anta3na hathi :). It is derived from the shawi word ABARBOUCHET
(couscous).
> In Setif, they say Oumma lali lali wa s'tif el-3ali, sobba rashrah wa
trig
> b3ida, khoya madjash wa rani m'ridha, youmma lali wa rahi tshali (hadi
> zad'tha min 3andi)..
Don't forget: Yumma lali yumma lali, yumma 3ala el camarade :)
--
diaspora.
dz ithalli...dz assa...dz athacha...algeria forever.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
azo charif
>
> azo charif <a...@chari.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8db5md$abn$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > All berber languages/dialects and Derja are essential elements of the
> > > Maghreb, they are the only components that can link us to the
Maghreb..
> > >
here something on which we both agree-..
azo
> > > Fodil
> > which fodil wrote the foregoing..definitely it is not the usual fodil i
> > know..
> > subhan allah mubiddul el ahwal we el elbab..
> >
> >
> Ya 3azo it's the same Fodil(be dhad)!, le VRAY des VRAY!..
>
> 15/2+
>
> Fodil
>
> >
> > Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:DHTI4.21119$y4.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > Nasir T. <nas...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
azo charif
form all what you call larabe maghrebin..acoording to some historians
maghrebi arabic is a natural development of the punic a phenecian dialect
spoken in carthage and around it before islam..many words and expressions
can be traced back to punic especially those of northern tunisia and north
eastern algeria....
azo
Khaled Hammadi
Olivier Martre a écrit dans le message <8dafp9$cp9$1...@wanadoo.fr>...
>
>Comment pouvez-vous comparer les algériens arabophones parlant les
>différentes formes d'arabe algérien, qui représentent la très grosse
>majorité des algériens, avec une minorité marginalisée?
>
>--
>Olivier...@wanadoo.fr
Bonjour Olivier
je crois que vous devriez faire gaffes de dire ce genre de choses sur SCA
("les algériens arabophones ...la très grosse majorité"), il y'a de ces
retours de baton dans les parages qui surprennent parfois même (et surtout)
de la part de gens avec qui vous croyez partager les mêmes conceptions ;-)
Allez salutations
Khaled
Fodil
> When I said the Algeroi is worst, I immediately followed it by its content
> in french. If the Algeroi evolves as other dialects do, or better, in
> Algeria this most certainly will make it not bad. But not best. For that
> there is one dialect that is best. Maybe there is somewhere in Algeria a
Nassir, you are deviating from the subjet, There is NO best and there is NO
worst. There is ONE Algerian(Maghrebin) Arabic, and the one closest to
ARABIC is the ones spoken in the Algerois and vicinty, and it is understood
by ALL Algerians, and that is NON-DEBATABLE fact, wa elli ma 3andou shahed
kadhab!..To find out, one has to read the "Qssidet Chaabi", you don't have
to listen to CHAABI and you don't have to LIKE it, just read it and show me
non-arabic words or french words for that matter. You heard Algerois people
speaking the Algerian dialect and using french arabized words. Forget how
the Algerois speak, not all of them speak the original language in its pure
form, but the language exists and it's mainly ARABIC-ARABIC pronounced a la
AlgeRIEN(rois)..
Ex: People from Sour el-Ghozlane have no difficulties understanding the
Algerois, neither do people from Oued Souf, do YOU, Nassir! have any
difficulties understanding the Algerois!?, obviously you don't!!, so what's
your problem..If the President want to talk to the Algerians in their native
language, he can select the most known words by ALL Algerians, ex: All
Algerians know the word "T3am and Naama" and only few know the word
BERBOUSHA!, makash kifash iqol lhum, wa Allah ya3tikum Berbrousha b'
el-ghalmi???, just an example, but TAAM b' el-ghalmi is well known to all,
because it is ALGERIEN, commun to ALL and can be found in the capital city
of all Algerians, others have their LOCAL words, some say "shleleg" others
say "qash" for Clothing, but everybody knows "hwayedj" or "ellebsa"!!..
Wa dorka anta wash khassek!?, you don't believe that ALGIERS is the common
city of ALL Algerians?!, or what?, it is the capital!..
> better dialect, and in my judgement, which is not scientific at all, it is
> the SOUFI dialect. This probably will raise the issue of which is the
There is NO better, the issue is which one is the closest to ARABIC!, in
other words in which region, one can find more non-ARABIC words.
Answer: NOT in ALGIERS and vicinty..
Fethi&Di
If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage.
But this garbage, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow enobled and none dare criticize it.
....and...
Azul mon frere,
"azo charif" wrote
> > All berber languages/dialects and Derja are essential elements of the
> > Maghreb, they are the only components that can link us to the Maghreb..
> > Fodil
> which fodil wrote the foregoing..definitely it is not the usual fodil i
> know..
> subhan allah mubiddul el ahwal we el elbab..
....and this time, Fodil moved away from his kif.
He's like a snake watch out !!!!!!!
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
>There is NO better, the issue is which one is the
closest to ARABIC!, in
other words in which region, one can find more
non-ARABIC words.>>
Khemis Miliana :)
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> >There is NO better, the issue is which one is the
> closest to ARABIC!, in
> other words in which region, one can find more
> non-ARABIC words.>>
>
Khemiss Miliana(your husband's town) does NOT even make the Algerian map..
You could've said Medea at least..
I'm telling you and this is NOT questionable nor debatable, the original
Algerois dialect/language contain more original ARABIC words than any other
regions, and that is a non-debatable fact. It is also true that french words
are mostly arabized by the Algerois, they like to make everything sounds
like arabic, needless to say that you also hear french spoken by others, but
it is NOT the norm, but when you speak of the language, you should speak of
the language itself and NOT of the people that "think" that they are
speaking the original langage:
An Algeroi may ask the other, while in a heated conversation: "wash anta wa
qila ma tafhemsh el-3arbia??", and in the same time he is using arabized
french words to explain his argument, this happens a lot..:))..
Fodil
Fodil
Fethi&Di <bl...@mikey.dz> wrote in message
news:bsKK4.7205$uJ1....@nntpserver.swip.net...
Salututti,
Azul mon frere,
"azo charif" wrote
Ya Fethi!, I never moved from my Kif, I never had nor saw the Kif,I have
always been saying the same thing, it is you that is blind!, or maybe
A3war!!??..
Arab does Not mean Sa3oudi!!??, since when?, Saoudis were out of being Arabs
in 632 A.C., the day when Omar Ibn el-3as OPENED Egypt..
Fodil
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:38FB7929...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Fodil wrote:
> > >
> > >There is NO better, the issue is which one is the
> > closest to ARABIC!, in
> > other words in which region, one can find more
> > non-ARABIC words.>>
> >
> > Khemis Miliana :)
>
> Khemiss Miliana(your husband's town) does NOT even make the Algerian map..
>
> You could've said Medea at least..>>
Why Medea? Khemis Miliana is in Ain Delfa.
> I'm telling you and this is NOT questionable nor debatable, the original
> Algerois dialect/language contain more original ARABIC words than any other
> regions, and that is a non-debatable fact.>>
I was kidding around with you, but I really have not heard any Algerois
that has as much Arabic as what I hear my husband speak with his family.
Or at least words that can conceivably have come from Arabic. Even those
Algerois who do speak a "purer" darja, as you call it. Nevertheless, I
was joshing. I have not heard all the darjas, and even if I did, would
not be able to tell.
Just giving you a hard time.
It is also true that french words
> are mostly arabized by the Algerois, they like to make everything sounds
> like arabic, needless to say that you also hear french spoken by others, but
> it is NOT the norm, but when you speak of the language, you should speak of
> the language itself and NOT of the people that "think" that they are
> speaking the original langage:>>
Language is what it evolves into, Fodil. What it was in the past doesn't
matter. If people are using an arabized French in darja, then that's the
darja. It is nonsense to say that Algerois is pure Arabic.
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:38FB7929...@worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Fodil wrote:
> > > >
> > > closest to ARABIC!, in
> > > other words in which region, one can find more
> > > non-ARABIC words.>>
> > >
> >
> > Khemiss Miliana(your husband's town) does NOT even make the Algerian
map..
> >
> > You could've said Medea at least..>>
>
> Why Medea? Khemis Miliana is in Ain Delfa.
>
same people that founded Algiers, and they were all Arab-made..
>
> > I'm telling you and this is NOT questionable nor debatable, the original
> > Algerois dialect/language contain more original ARABIC words than any
other
> > regions, and that is a non-debatable fact.>>
>
> I was kidding around with you, but I really have not heard any Algerois
> that has as much Arabic as what I hear my husband speak with his family.
> Or at least words that can conceivably have come from Arabic. Even those
I know you are joking!, if you didn't hear it, now you KNOW it
Fact: Algerois language/dialect is the Pure Algerian Arabic(most of it),
it's the main source.
Fact: Algerois people tend to use more arabized french words than others..
Fact: El-Harrach is the main source of all Algerois Slang(street talk)
In Algerois, there is no stange words of unknown origine, most of them can
be traced to ARABIC.
Example: Some, in other parts in algeria say "shleleg" to mean clothing
and/or clothes??!, the proper Algerian arabic words are "ellebsa" or
"elhwayedj" both derived of pure arabic..
But "tchaliqa" exists in the Algerois, which means a rag "chiffon" in
french, but other preffer to say "cheefoun" or "chifounna", now "tchaliqa"
may be of berber origine but it became ARABIC slang of the derja, "chifoune"
is an arabized french word, was never part of the Algerians until 1830 ..
So go ask them what is the word for "rag"?
If people are using arabized french words, they know that they are using
arabized french words and NOT Algerian arabic words..They know..The Arabized
french words are NOT part of the Algerian ARABIC, not at all!, they are part
of the slang of the Algerian arabic..
Example, they know that "eTrain" means "Train" and they also know that the
proper Algerian arabic for it is "el-Mashina" , but they preffer
"eTrain",it's simpler.. "Machine" is originally arabic derived from "Mashi"=
"walker", and most of them know the word "Qittar", if somebody wants to use
the word "train" in a formal speech, he/she must use "QITTAR". Algerians
tend to simplify the way they talk, but they also tend to complicate the way
they live, and that is a fact!..They live in controversy!!, now some of the
new generation think that Derja is a low class language and must be spoken
by the non-educated, and classical arabic is the language of the educated,
the truth is nobody speaks classical arabic in their daily lives, even the
ones in Yemen and Saoudia..We have ours, and I think we should speak it, and
they can write the other..The Algerian identity wouldn't exist without the
Algerian Arabic that you call derja, we call it "el-3arbia"=Arabic", we just
say DERJA to distinguish it from :"FOS'HA"..
Fodil
Massine
but
| Berkoukes exist!!, Berkoukes is derived from Baraka..
Fodil, pourquoi cette desinformation? Berkoukes est un plat typiquement
Amazigh, il ne derive pas de Baraka, mais bien d'un mot amazigh qui
veut dire "s'enroule sur soi-meme", la pate qui s'enroule pour fomer
des grandes graines!
Massine.
azo charif
..
> Salem aalyakum wa Salem 3ala min taba3a el-Huda!
>
> Fodil
humanity in you, but now you really are going to disappoint me as you start
scratching the backside of such a psychopath of 'terrori boutertori shaarawi
de mes couilles'..
iamnot surprised if is bukhalkhal doing it or the other one in their clique
,the one who uses a number as a name ,you see, he doesnt have even the guts
to use a name so that he has to show us the plate number of his Terma...but
iam really surprised that you do such a thing..
i hope the fox comes back to his senses ..
azo
Olivier Martre
Khaled Hammadi <Khaled....@ensigct.fr> a écrit dans le message :
> je crois que vous devriez faire gaffes de dire ce genre de choses sur SCA
> ("les algériens arabophones ...la très grosse majorité"), il y'a de ces
> retours de baton dans les parages qui surprennent parfois même (et
surtout)
> de la part de gens avec qui vous croyez partager les mêmes conceptions ;-)
Ma naïveté me perdra. Je crois tout ce que je vois dans les encyclopédies.
@+,
995522
<Olivier...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
>Khaled Hammadi <Khaled....@ensigct.fr> a écrit dans le
message :
>
>> je crois que vous devriez faire gaffes de dire ce genre de
choses sur SCA
>> ("les algériens arabophones ...la très grosse majorité"), il
y'a de ces
>> retours de baton dans les parages qui surprennent parfois
même (et
>surtout)
>> de la part de gens avec qui vous croyez partager les mêmes
conceptions ;-)
>
>Ma naïveté me perdra.
Je crois tout ce que je vois dans les encyclopédies.
Y compris le pere noel.
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