The Gladiator--movie distors North African history
bmadani
This
movie is being shown in several countries, release dates coming up soon,
within this month. I know Germany is one of the countries on the list in
a
couple of weeks, so I presume France will be getting it fairly soon as
well.
I saw this movie myself yesterday, so I am speaking as an eye-witness,
and
not just from hearsay.
This film takes place during the Roman empire in 180 AD. About 45
minutes
into the film, the location changes to North Africa. At least, it's
suppose
to be North Africa, a town called Zucchabar, which it describes as a
Roman
Province. This is one of its minor errors. Zucchabar is modern day
Miliana in
Algeria. It's a daira in the mountains not far from Khemis Miliana. What
is
presented as a 2nd century North African town is a "flea-infected"
slave-trading market, with men in turbans and long robes, dressed as
Arabs
and speaking in a patois Arabic (darja) (it's suppose to be Berber
according
to the book, but someone didn't know the difference!). Slave-trading did
not
exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later, around
the
early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
traders.
The major character is Maximus, who is suppose to be a Roman general
from the
Provinces, who is taken as a slave by the "berber-speaking" "bedouin"
named
Proximo to fight as a gladiator. Gladiators were taken from criminals,
and a
few Jews and later Christians were also thrown in the coliseums. But
slaves
at this time were normally taken from wars, as booty, or they were
children
of slaves or orphans. These were not made into gladiators. According to
the
film, Carthage was a slave-trading center, another fallacy for the
period.
To top it off, Maximus's friend, another slave-turned gladiator, named
Juba,
and described as a Numidian, is played by a black west African
(Nigerian). It
appears the filmmakers meant to portray a Nubian, but got their terms
confused. But then, the entire story is confused. This film was partly
filmed
in Morocco. They spent $100 million dollars on this gory extravaganza,
even
creating an authentic-looking coliseum. At the start of the film,
there's a
few lines about Rome's empire, and it appears that it could be a
historical
film. Characters such as Marcus Aurelius and Commodius were Roman
emperors,
and they have important roles in the film. You don't get notified that
it is
not historical fact until after all the credits at the end of the film,
something very few are going to wait around to read (it takes over 10
minutes
to get through all the credits). I did only because I knew they had to
legally have something somewhere.
I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
stereotype
Arabs as slave-traders, but messed up in their history since there were
no
Arabs or Bedouins in those days in this area (bedouins appear in Egypt
in the
700s and in north Africa in the early 11th century), and ended up
seriously
distorting North African reality in those days, and thus maligning the
Imazighen, the people of North Africa.
A letter sent by Dr. Helene Hagan to various newspapers across the USA,
as
well as Dreamworks and Universal Studios can be seen at:
http://www.waac.org/amazigh/gladiators_misrepresents_imazighen.html.
This letter can be copied by those interested in letting the world know
that
North Africa was Amazigh, not Arab during the Roman empire. They were
not
slave traders. In fact, there is no documentation of slaves during this
period in the area. The few Roman families (which were not found in
Zucchabar) had servants, from the area, but they are not described as
slaves,
while those in Rome were. And "Numidian" is an ancient Roman term for
the
Amazigh of central and western Algeria to the Tunisian border.
Another commentary on the issue can be found at:
http://www.waac.org/amazigh/gladiator_false_history.html.
Movies can entertain, but they also influence. Too many people are too
disinterested in reading history. They get their "facts" from what they
see.
Films leave impressions and reinforce stereotypes, in this case,
negative and
seriously erroneous stereotypes. While it's about ancient history, it's
about
OUR ancient history. If they can get the coliseum right, they can get
the
people and life of North Africa right.
Thank you,
Blanca
Fodil
Blanca go fish!..
N. Africans and ALL berbers were BEDOINS, Numedians=Nomadics, someone
already explained it to you. Slave trading was part of the N.Africans since
begining of history, Massinissa himself was a slave trader, Carthagians
attacked him because he broke the agreement about slave trading, he was not
suppose to trade N.Africans with the spaniards at that time, one of the
reasons of the first punic wars and Massinissa called the ROMANS for help to
DESTROY Carthage and the phoenicians. The North Africans did speak
arabic-patois since the begining of history, it's called DERJA, Imazighen is
just a MYTH, they never existed as one nation, it is just a MIKKI dream,
that's all, it's a fantaZy and Ibn Khaldun was right!
Don't worry, we all know that the true berbers are composed of mostly of
todays Arabophones(the ones that also consider DERJA as their native
language), some of them are from Meliana!..It has nothing to do with the
mountain Imazighen at all!, don't worry your people are not targeted, nobody
knew about them at that time..
It's NOT YOUR ancient history, it's OURS and WE DO NOT give a SHIT what
others say about US, WE know who we are!!, and certainly NOT jews nor Ima Z
GHEN!, we were never such people, never!..
Fodil
.
Bmadani52
already explained it to you.>>
The Numedians were not nomadic. How could they have built a city like Cirta, if
they were nomadic? Use your brains, and quit being an idiot.
And no one needs to explain to me the history of my own people. I have studied
Mediterranean ancient history my entire life because it is the history of my
people. My parents made sure that I knew more than I was going to get in school
here. My paternal grandfather had an immense library, with hundreds of books,
including in Latin and Greek about the history of the Mediterranean in ancient
times. His kids, and most of his grandkids have names from ancient history
because of his love for that history. So it's in my blood, Fodil. I was weaned
on north African and southern European history. And not just from word-of-mouth
since my family was highly-read. I myself studied Latin, and read their history
books, so don't come in here and start re-inventing history to suit your
tastes.
>>It's NOT YOUR ancient history, it's OURS>>
No, yours is the history of Arabia.
>> and WE DO NOT give a SHIT what
others say about US, WE know who we are!!, and certainly NOT jews nor Ima Z
GHEN!, we were never such people, never!..>>
According to you, history and language began in the 7th century.
Go fly a kite.
Fodil
if so you are lying, because Tamazight was just recently invented..
How come you agreed with the other dude that said Numedians=Nomadics in
berber!, what about the TOUAREG, they are still NOMADIC ups to today..
How come MOST if NOT all people in Qsantina do NOT speak or never heard of
this TAMAZIGHT, they never heard of the word Imazighen either until
recently..You are a liar, you have NO ROOTS in N.Africa, you are just saying
this because someone hired you to say so, to try to "prove" that this NEW
breed of IMAZIGHEN existed in N.Africa!, they never existed!, never!, since
begining of history, N.Africans lived as separate and different tribes,
until the MUSLIMS-ARABS showed up, they found mostly Arabic-derja-speakers,
their forfathers and they were WELCOMED, except one jew opposed them and she
became their lover, and that is the truth!..By the way, how come the
N.African jews speak ARABIC-derja?, how come?, some where there before the
Muslims?, did they teach them arabic also?..Go take a hike!..
Fodil
Bmadani52 <bmad...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000509081010...@ng-md1.aol.com...
diasp...@my-deja.com
> Slave-trading did
> not
> exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later, around
> the
> early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> traders.
Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
scholar thing!!
Even your spiritual guru(lavigerie)did not go that far!
Have you ever heard of 'intellectual honesty'?
> I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
> stereotype
> Arabs as slave-traders
But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
makroud and eat it too!!
--
diaspora.
dz ithalli...dz assa...dz athacha...algeria forever.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
diasp...@my-deja.com
> And no one needs to explain to me the history of my own people.
How did you get in? You ain't one of us!! Unless you mean north african
a la camus. But that does not count!
> My paternal grandfather had an immense library
You mean your paternal arab grandfather? Make up your mind, rootless
thing! Do you want a quote or two from your old posts?
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> O.K., what LANGUAGE your grand father spoke in ALGERIA?, was it Tamazight,
> if so you are lying, because Tamazight was just recently invented..>>
I have never said my grandfather spoke Tamazight. If he did, I don't
know about it. He knew Arabic and several other languages. I never even
heard the word until a few years ago. I only knew about Berber. However,
Tamazight was not just recently invented. Ignorance of something doesn't
mean it did not exist.
>
> How come you agreed with the other dude that said Numedians=Nomadics in
> berber!, what about the TOUAREG, they are still NOMADIC ups to today..
Fodil, we're talking about the Numidians, about the people under the
Roman empire, which did not extend to the desert. I don't know what dude
you're talking about.
> How come MOST if NOT all people in Qsantina do NOT speak or never heard of
> this TAMAZIGHT, they never heard of the word Imazighen either until
> recently..>>
You asked them? Considering that both Chaouis and Kabyles have migrated
to Constantine, that would be rather surprising.
You are a liar, you have NO ROOTS in N.Africa, you are just saying
> this because someone hired you to say so, to try to "prove" that this NEW
> breed of IMAZIGHEN existed in N.Africa!, >>
I can't believe you'd pull that. You got upset when someone accused you
of being hired by the government. More than upset, you freaked out. Now
you turn around and do it to me. Don't you know you shouldn't do unto
others what you don't want done unto you? You know that's pure BS. I
can't be bought, Fodil. The only thing that works with me is honesty and
logic. I have no patience for hypocrites or idiots.
And don't tell me I have no roots in north Africa. I've known it all my
life. It's on every census I have ever filled out, explanation of
"other," which I've always used to describe ethnicity since I started
first grade many years ago. Keep this up, and I'll start accusing you of
being nothing more than an Ottoman mongrel whose grandmother was French
because her birth certificate described her as Algerian at a time when
no Muslim Algerian was described as such. That would make you an
invader, not Algerian. :)))
they never existed!, never!, since
> begining of history, N.Africans lived as separate and different tribes,
> until the MUSLIMS-ARABS showed up,>>
More nonsense. Voodoo history as someone calls it.
>>they found mostly Arabic-derja-speakers,
> their forfathers and they were WELCOMED, except one jew opposed them and she
> became their lover, and that is the truth!..>>
You have quite an imagination. You said she was raped. Since when is a
man a lover when he rapes you? Either way, it's all more of your
inventions.
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
>
> > Slave-trading did
> > not
> > exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later, around
> > the
> > early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> > traders.
>
> Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
> scholar thing!!
> Even your spiritual guru(lavigerie)did not go that far!>>
We're talking about slave trading in north Africa, and it did not exist
at that time. Rome obtained its slaves through numerous ways: criminals,
wars, orphans, children of slaves, Jews when the Romans felt like
persecuting them, etc.
> > I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
> > stereotype
> > Arabs as slave-traders
>
> But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
> north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
> makroud and eat it too!!
I didn't say Arabs introduced slave-trading. I said historians say that
Arabs introduced it in north Africa, and that was centuries afterwards.
Nevertheless, not all Arabs have been slave-traders by any means, and to
constantly depict them as such is stereotyping. In fact, the
slave-traders in Africa are not even Arabs. They are arabized people.
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > > Slave-trading did
> > > not
> > > exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later,
around
> > > the
> > > early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> > > traders.
> > Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
> > scholar thing!!
> > Even your spiritual guru(lavigerie)did not go that far!>>
> We're talking about slave trading in north Africa
Yep, that is what we are talking about, scholar thing. Slave-trading
was practiced in north africa during the roman era. History 101.
> > > I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
> > > stereotype
> > > Arabs as slave-traders
> > But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
> > north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
> > makroud and eat it too!!
> I didn't say Arabs introduced slave-trading. I said historians say
that
> Arabs introduced it in north Africa
Same izzane! Same shit because you stated as a historical fact and you
didn't disputed it. Do your ghobari(math)!
> Nevertheless, not all Arabs have been slave-traders by any means, and
to
> constantly depict them as such is stereotyping.
Good point, but your little post depicted them as such, and you know it!
Have you ever heard of something called 'intellectual honesty'?
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> bmad...@aol.com (Bmadani52) wrote:
>
> > And no one needs to explain to me the history of my own people.
>
> How did you get in? You ain't one of us!! Unless you mean north african
> a la camus. But that does not count!
I didn't say I was one of YOU. Heaven forbid!
> > My paternal grandfather had an immense library
>
> You mean your paternal arab grandfather? Make up your mind, rootless
> thing! Do you want a quote or two from your old posts?
That should have been great-grandfather. My paternal grandmother's
father. Of course I thought my grandfather was Arab. Like many people, I
thought north Africans were Arabs in the present and Berbers in the
past. The term Arab was used to describe Muslims when my grandfather was
born. It was a differentiation from the Christians. I am not going to
apologize for having been ignorant. What matters is not to remain
ignorant when information is available, and one just needs to go after
it.
us...@sprintpipe.com
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
>
>> Slave-trading did
>> not
>> exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later, around
>> the
>> early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
>> traders.
>
>Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
>scholar thing!!
>Even your spiritual guru(lavigerie)did not go that far!
>
>Have you ever heard of 'intellectual honesty'?
She is correct.
There was
no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
at that time.
If you have any reference about slavery in North Africa
AD, please provide
us with titles. I am interested.
>
>> I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
>> stereotype
>> Arabs as slave-traders
>
>But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
>north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
>makroud and eat it too!!
>
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > bmad...@aol.com (Bmadani52) wrote:
> >
> > > And no one needs to explain to me the history of my own people.
> >
> > How did you get in? You ain't one of us!! Unless you mean north
african
> > a la camus. But that does not count!
> I didn't say I was one of YOU. Heaven forbid!
"US" means Algerians/North Africans, and YES THANKS GOODNESS that you
are not one of US. Because we don't care for a desperado foreign
aythith with no principals, who is in the habit of changing her
positions more often than changing her underwears. A foreign missionary
with $$ as her moral compass!
> > > My paternal grandfather had an immense library
> > You mean your paternal arab grandfather? Make up your mind, rootless
> > thing! Do you want a quote or two from your old posts?
> That should have been great-grandfather. My paternal grandmother's
> father. Of course I thought my grandfather was Arab.
But we are talking just a few weeks ago? Do you want the quote?
> Like many people, I
> thought north Africans were Arabs in the present and Berbers in the
> past.
What happened to all the books you read? What happened to the
scholarship song you have been singing? Don't tell me a scholar of your
calibar would not know the difference between an arab and a berber!
You are nothing but foreign recycled material. Your position/identity
depends on the the HAT you are wearing at the moment. That is all!!
Happy trails, desperado thing!
diasp...@my-deja.com
> >> Slave-trading did
> >> not
> >> exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later,
around
> >> the
> >> early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> >> traders.
> >Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
> >scholar thing!!
> She is correct.
> There was
> no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
> at that time.
No, she is wrong! She said "arabs introduced slave-trading to north
africa." That is fiction! The Romans practiced slave trading in North
Africa. It was not on a large scale, but it was there.
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Yep, that is what we are talking about, scholar thing. Slave-trading
> was practiced in north africa during the roman era. History 101.<
Well seems like you'd better retake History 101 or try a teacher that's
read the Roman books. If you have proof of such slave-trading during the
period in question (180 AD) in that particular part of the world
(Numidia), then please post.
>> Same izzane! Same shit because you stated as a historical fact and you
> didn't disputed it. Do your ghobari(math)!>
That was not the topic of what I had written, and I have no reason to
dispute it as I have seen nothing to contradict it. Nevertheless, I
didn't say it. Historian specialists on that particular subject have.
I'm not coming out with it out of thin air like you are about
slave-trading in north Africa in the 2nd century.
>
> > Nevertheless, not all Arabs have been slave-traders by any means, and
> to
> > constantly depict them as such is stereotyping.
>
> Good point, but your little post depicted them as such, and you know it!
>
> Have you ever heard of something called 'intellectual honesty'?
BS. Saying that they brought slave-trading is not saying that Arabs are
slave-traders. I am not going to deny historical information just
because it doesn't sound pretty. If the bad and the good are portrayed
side-by-side, there is no problem. The problem lies when people are
stereotyped in one very negative image. It's like films about Muslim
terrorists. They exist, and no one can deny it. But when you have film
after film depicting the same garbage with none that show perfectly
normal Muslims, then that is stereotyping and maligning of a people. In
this particular case, the film is suppose to take place where the
Amazigh lived. The slave-trader is described as a Berber, the area as a
flea-infected market (this is a place in the mountains with natural
springs in reality--Zucchabar, now Miliana). The people are speaking
Moroccan darja, which is suppose to be Berber, and the movie is
historically inaccurate in almost everything except the names of the
Roman rulers at the time. Yet, the film is shown as if it's history,
with only the statement needed by law placed where most people will
never see it--after the credits, just before lights out.
My statements had very little in reality to do with the Arabs except to
note that the filmmakers were thinking of them instead of the Imazighen
because of their ignorance. However, you're twisting the real problem
with the film and trying to make me out as anti-Arab. Forget it,
Diaspora. Quit the hypocrisy. I'm not a racist. But it's quite obvious
you'll stoop to anything because of your tendencies against the
Imazighen. And don't give me that you are Amazigh because you're Chaoui.
You are a sell-out. You have no pride as a Choaui. Regionalism, yes. But
you're no Amazigh.
diasp...@my-deja.com
> >> Same izzane! Same shit because you stated as a historical fact and
you
> > didn't disputed it. Do your ghobari(math)!>
> That was not the topic of what I had written
It was a pat of your post! you said,"arabs introduced slave- trading
into north africa.". I am saying you are wrong!
> and I have no reason to
> dispute it as I have seen nothing to contradict it.
In other words you subcribe to the theory that that the arabs were the
first ones to intruduce slave- trading into north africa.
> > > Nevertheless, not all Arabs have been slave-traders by any means,
and
> > to
> > > constantly depict them as such is stereotyping.
> >
> > Good point, but your little post depicted them as such, and you
know it!
> > Have you ever heard of something called 'intellectual honesty'?
> you're twisting the real problem
> with the film and trying to make me out as anti-Arab.
No, I did not see the film and I didn't say it was anti-arab. All I did
was disput what you said: the arabs introduced slave-trading in North
Africa!
> Forget it,
> Diaspora. Quit the hypocrisy.
Hypocracy is your middle name:
-Playing different cards is hypocracy.
-Playing algerian against algerian is hypocracy.
-Trying to be something you are not is hypocracy
-Flip fopping is hypocracy!
In short you are a HYPOCRITE FOREIGN SCHMUCK, errih ili eji yaddik!!
> I'm not a racist. But it's quite obvious
> you'll stoop to anything because of your tendencies against the
> Imazighen.
This one deserves a little tozayza....tozzzzzzzz!
>And don't give me that you are Amazigh because you're Chaoui.
Your shawititis is flaring up, poor foreign recycled garbage!
> You are a sell-out.
Hachak, foreigh ho!! The sell-out is the foreign recycled garbage who
has $$$ as her moral compass : YOU!
> You have no pride as a Choaui.
Poor desperado!! Being Chaoui is the very essence of my being, foreign
aythith!! Something a MISSIONARY ROOTLESS CREATURE will never
understand!! It is a soul thing, something souless creature like
yourself will never understand!!
A spit form a Chaoui is better than your entire pathetic missionay
life!! Shawis are syadek! Never forget that, settut!
> Regionalism, yes.
That is what you are adovacting, queen of secterism!! Your dream is to
see Algeria turned into TRIBES WITH FLAGS!
Happy trails, missionary schmuck!!
Fodil
<us...@sprintpipe.com> wrote in message
news:3918d51...@news.pipeline.com...
> diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> >
> >> Slave-trading did
> >> not
> >> exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later, around
> >> the
> >> early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> >> traders.
> >
> >Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
> >scholar thing!!
> >
>
> She is correct.
> There was
> no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
> at that time.
> AD, please provide
> us with titles. I am interested.
>
>
I have PROOF that Massinissa used to sell the forfathers of todays KABYLES
to the spaniards and the King of Carthage kicked his ass for that..
Proof:
One day, a good friend of mine and I, he is 100% and sang pour sang MISS
TAMURT but NOT part of the IMAZIGHEN, he thinks it is just TIKHARBISHIN(he
is from TIZI) and NOT a Zdimoh..We were having some coffee (kuna nsherbu
qhawi, rak ta3ref wa anta tradiuziha kima habit), and suddenly this dude
showed up, my friend told me to take a look at this guy and in his own words
he said to me" Hada min tawa3na", "this guy is one of us", he thought he was
MOKRANE from his village, after a brief verbal exchange, we found out that
this Mokarane's native language is spanish from el-Salvador!..How did
Mokrane happened to be born in el-Salvador?!!. A:The conquisatadors were in
el-Salvador..
Donc, puisKe kayen des mexicains QBAYEL, c'est sur et certain que Massinissa
les a vendu aux espagnols!..
Fodil
>
>
>
> >
> >> I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
> >> stereotype
> >> Arabs as slave-traders
> >
> >But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
> >north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
> >makroud and eat it too!!
> >
Fodil
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3918CA9B...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > O.K., what LANGUAGE your grand father spoke in ALGERIA?, was it
Tamazight,
> > if so you are lying, because Tamazight was just recently invented..>>
>
> I have never said my grandfather spoke Tamazight. If he did, I don't
> know about it. He knew Arabic and several other languages. I never even
> heard the word until a few years ago. I only knew about Berber. However,
> Tamazight was not just recently invented. Ignorance of something doesn't
> mean it did not exist.
>
>
> >
> > How come you agreed with the other dude that said Numedians=Nomadics in
> > berber!, what about the TOUAREG, they are still NOMADIC ups to today..
>
> Fodil, we're talking about the Numidians, about the people under the
> Roman empire, which did not extend to the desert. I don't know what dude
> you're talking about.
>
The dude, "the expert in egyptology", you know the scandinavain Muslim(he
believes in the cow also), he thinks all Algerians believe in the cow..
He wrote down Numedians is NOMADICS in greek and you even THANKED him for
that, you did!..How can you have memory lapses..
O.K., I believe that yo have N.African roots, what do you mean your grand
father spoke many different languages!?!, so..
WHAT WAS YOUR GRAND FATHER NATIVE LANGUAGE?, what was HIS MOTHER TONGUE!?, I
didn't ask you HOW MANY languages he spoke?, they claim that Ait-Ahmed speak
SEVEN languages!, but his MOTHER tongue is KABYLO-ARABIC ..
There was NEVER ONE TAMAZIGHT language?, if it did exist?, who spoke it?..
Did the forfathers of today CONSTANTINOIS , ANNABIS and TUNISIANS, if so?,
how come that this WORD is NOT part of their CULTURE and/or part of their
vocabulary!..I'm 100% sure that this WORD was NEVER used by any ALGERIAN or
MAGHREBIN until after BOUMEDIENNE said 'Laqad qarrarna...."..
The birth place of the ones that you are claiming to be Amazigh people such
as:
St augustin, Yughurta, Massinissa are in the EAST, what was Tunisia, and 99%
of Tunisian don't know anything about this MIKKI-NEWS!, nothing!, neither do
the Algerians in the East part of Algeria..If those people spoke any other
language, they must have spoke what today Tunisians, Constantinians and
annabi, Biskris speak or a language very simillair to it!, they spoke
DERJA!, a western SEMITIC-ARABIC language!...The Kabyle and chaoui dialects
are just an other type of DERJA, Tamazight was just recently Kreated by the
KKI!.period, and it is THEIR language, they should learn it and cherish it!,
it has nothing to do with the N.Africans semitic Maghrebins people!..
Are you telling us that the kabyles used to be in Konstantine and they
migrated to Djurdjura?!!, why?, how come the others remained!?, are you
telling us that the constantinois are originally KABYLES people?, and they
USED to speak KABYLE??!!, are they claiming so?..or they just INVADED the
Kabyles and the Kabyles moved to the mountains??!. be DIRECT!..Are the
Kabyles semitic or indio-european people?
Fodil
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> "US" means Algerians/North Africans, and YES THANKS GOODNESS that you
> are not one of US. Because we don't care for a desperado foreign
> aythith with no principals, who is in the habit of changing her
> positions more often than changing her underwears. A foreign missionary
> with $$ as her moral compass!>>
I am half north African, whether you like it or not. Probably more,
considering that the north Africans populated Spain, as well.
Personally, I wish one could say one's people were all wonderful, but
there is always some to remind us that we need to take the trash out
every day.
I've got more principals than you and your cronies can ever hope to
attain. You think that with all your insults, you'll make me shut up.
You think I don't know the games? Don't forget, babe, I've known your
tactics for over 2 years. You gave me advice on occasions in the past
and explanations. Maybe you've forgotten, but I haven't. You are
hilarious, if it wasn't that I have to waste my time responding to you
every once in a while so the unwary aren't fooled.
> > That should have been great-grandfather. My paternal grandmother's
> > father. Of course I thought my grandfather was Arab.
>
> But we are talking just a few weeks ago? Do you want the quote?>>
A few weeks ago? Don't waste your time. You'll be taking out of context
as usual.
>
> > Like many people, I
> > thought north Africans were Arabs in the present and Berbers in the
> > past.
>
> What happened to all the books you read? What happened to the
> scholarship song you have been singing? Don't tell me a scholar of your
> calibar would not know the difference between an arab and a berber!
You know perfectly well that the books in the west talk about berbers
as nothing more than exotic illiterates from the mountains or as the
blue men. Prior to college, all you get are the blue men. In fact, when
I went to school, there were still those studies found in the
encyclopedia Funk & Wagnalls about races, with shape of head, etc., that
represented the Berber, and he was a "blueman." Except for ancient
history, the berbers are on the periphery in books. In ancient history,
they are given different names. I studied them as Numidians, Mauris,
Libyans, Afrikiyyans, everything but Berbers. Give me a break. Algerians
themselves don't seem to know what berbers are. I have heard many of
them use the term with the nose up in the air. The berbers are savages
in their mind. Fodil has perfectly depicted the mentality on many
occasions. Scholars don't always know everything. The point is to learn.
>
> You are nothing but foreign recycled material. >>
We are all recycled, Diaspora. And of course, I'm foreign. I'm born in a
land that is not the land of my ancestors. And I'm foreign to you
because you don't know what it means to be honest, no matter that one
has to swallow one's pride and admit that one was wrong at one time. You
haven't the guts to admit you're wrong even if you realize it.
Your position/identity
> depends on the the HAT you are wearing at the moment. That is all!!>
> Happy trails, desperado thing!
At least I change mine when I realize it's dirty.
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> us...@sprintpipe.com wrote:
>
> > >> Slave-trading did
> > >> not
> > >> exist in this part of the world until hundreds of years later,
> around
> > >> the
> > >> early 11th century, brought in, according to historians, by Arab
> > >> traders.
>
> > >Nonsense! Slave-trading did exist during the Roman era. History 101,
> > >scholar thing!!
>
> > She is correct.
> > There was
> > no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
> > at that time.
>
> No, she is wrong! She said "arabs introduced slave-trading to north
> africa." That is fiction! The Romans practiced slave trading in North
> Africa. It was not on a large scale, but it was there.
>
> --
> diaspora.
Prove it, or quit with your nonsense. Prove me wrong. Your words don't
count, Diaspora. You are nobody. You're just a name. A name with no
transparency whatsoever. So come up with your proof.
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> I have PROOF that Massinissa used to sell the forfathers of todays KABYLES
> to the spaniards and the King of Carthage kicked his ass for that..
>
> Proof:
>
> One day, a good friend of mine and I, he is 100% and sang pour sang MISS
> TAMURT but NOT part of the IMAZIGHEN, he thinks it is just TIKHARBISHIN(he
> is from TIZI) and NOT a Zdimoh..We were having some coffee (kuna nsherbu
> qhawi, rak ta3ref wa anta tradiuziha kima habit), and suddenly this dude
> showed up, my friend told me to take a look at this guy and in his own words
> he said to me" Hada min tawa3na", "this guy is one of us", he thought he was
> MOKRANE from his village, after a brief verbal exchange, we found out that
> this Mokarane's native language is spanish from el-Salvador!..How did
> Mokrane happened to be born in el-Salvador?!!. A:The conquisatadors were in
> el-Salvador..
>
> Donc, puisKe kayen des mexicains QBAYEL, c'est sur et certain que Massinissa
> les a vendu aux espagnols!..
>
> Fodil
That's your "proof"? What an imbecile. The conquistadors were conversos.
They were more than likely of berber descent. These were former Muslims
and Jews who had to convert (conversos). As for Spain, the legions of
armies that went there under the Romans were berbers, as well as under
the Arabs. And even before that, people had gone back and forth. The two
countries aren't that far apart geographically. There is archaeological
proof that even 900 million years ago, the pre-humanoids in Spain were
the exact ones found in Algeria. Scientists are trying to figure out how
they got there when they are not found in the east. Only Spain, Algeria,
and one of the Mediterranean islands--I forget which one. So it is not
at all strange to find Latin Americans who will look like Algerians.
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Same izzane! Same shit because you stated as a historical fact and
> you
> > > didn't disputed it. Do your ghobari(math)!>
>
> > That was not the topic of what I had written
>
> It was a pat of your post! you said,"arabs introduced slave- trading
> into north africa.". I am saying you are wrong!>>
You can say whatever you please. Prove otherwise. Historians can be
wrong, but we need proof.
> > and I have no reason to
> > dispute it as I have seen nothing to contradict it.
>
> In other words you subcribe to the theory that that the arabs were the
> first ones to intruduce slave- trading into north africa.>>
I acknowledge the possibility. Arabs were traders, and if the people
weren't Muslim, they saw nothing wrong with it. They took slaves as
booty in their conquests. Are you going to deny that too? What do you
want to do, whitewash Arab history?
> No, I did not see the film and I didn't say it was anti-arab. All I did
> was disput what you said: the arabs introduced slave-trading in North
> Africa!
You have not disputed it. You are simply filling these boards, as usual,
with a bunch of "izzane." Prettier sounding word than the English
equivalent.
> Your shawititis is flaring up, poor foreign recycled garbage!>
Don't flatter yourself, Diaspora. I like Chaouis, but there is always
the exception or two, in every group.
> > You are a sell-out.
>
> Hachak, foreigh ho!! The sell-out is the foreign recycled garbage who
> has $$$ as her moral compass : YOU!>>
You bet I have my own moral compass. I respect honor, truth, justice,
and I will fight for what is right. I'm no "ho," Mr. Diaspora. Whores
sell themselves. I can't be bought. Whores don't care about anything
except what they get in exchange. I care only about what is right, and I
give myself only in love. You're the "ho," Mr. Diaspora.
> Poor desperado!! Being Chaoui is the very essence of my being, foreign
> aythith!! Something a MISSIONARY ROOTLESS CREATURE will never
> understand!! It is a soul thing, something souless creature like
> yourself will never understand!!
LOL! I've got a soul, Mr. Diaspora. A soul and a heart. You appear to
have left yours in the Aures.
> A spit form a Chaoui is better than your entire pathetic missionay
> life!! Shawis are syadek! Never forget that, settut!
You are just one, and there's always that one rotten apple to spoil
things. That's probably why they kicked you out of the Aures.
> > Regionalism, yes.
>
> That is what you are adovacting, queen of secterism!! Your dream is to
> see Algeria turned into TRIBES WITH FLAGS!>>
You are tribal in your regionalistic mentality, Diaspora. There are good
things about tribal society, but you've adopted the negative aspects of
it.
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3918CA9B...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Fodil wrote:
> > >
> > > O.K., what LANGUAGE your grand father spoke in ALGERIA?, was it
> Tamazight,
> > > if so you are lying, because Tamazight was just recently invented..>>
> >
> > I have never said my grandfather spoke Tamazight. If he did, I don't
> > know about it. He knew Arabic and several other languages. I never even
> > heard the word until a few years ago. I only knew about Berber. However,
> > Tamazight was not just recently invented. Ignorance of something doesn't
> > mean it did not exist.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > How come you agreed with the other dude that said Numedians=Nomadics in
> > > berber!, what about the TOUAREG, they are still NOMADIC ups to today..
> >
> > Fodil, we're talking about the Numidians, about the people under the
> > Roman empire, which did not extend to the desert. I don't know what dude
> > you're talking about.
> >
>
> The dude, "the expert in egyptology", you know the scandinavain Muslim(he
> believes in the cow also), he thinks all Algerians believe in the cow..
>
> He wrote down Numedians is NOMADICS in greek and you even THANKED him for
> that, you did!..How can you have memory lapses..>>
What do you do? Memorize everything I say? I'm not the Qu'ran, you know.
I didn't thank him for his definition of Numedians. European rulers have
always screwed up in identifying people. Berber means foreigner. Leave
it to a European people to call someone in their own land a foreigner.
>
> O.K., I believe that yo have N.African roots, what do you mean your grand
> father spoke many different languages!?!, so..
>
> WHAT WAS YOUR GRAND FATHER NATIVE LANGUAGE?, what was HIS MOTHER TONGUE!?, I
> didn't ask you HOW MANY languages he spoke?, they claim that Ait-Ahmed speak
> SEVEN languages!, but his MOTHER tongue is KABYLO-ARABIC ..>>
My grandfather's mother died when he was still a baby. Therefore, I
don't know what his MOTHER tongue should have been.
> There was NEVER ONE TAMAZIGHT language?, if it did exist?, who spoke it?..
>
> Did the forfathers of today CONSTANTINOIS , ANNABIS and TUNISIANS, if so?,
> how come that this WORD is NOT part of their CULTURE and/or part of their
> vocabulary!..I'm 100% sure that this WORD was NEVER used by any ALGERIAN or
> MAGHREBIN until after BOUMEDIENNE said 'Laqad qarrarna...."..>>
In my opinion, it's because in the large cities, there was more foreign
influence: Phoenician, Arab, Ottoman Turk, and French.
> The birth place of the ones that you are claiming to be Amazigh people such
> as:
>
> St augustin, Yughurta, Massinissa are in the EAST, what was Tunisia,>>
Excuse me, but they were born in what is today Algeria. Massinissa's
kingdom extended to the border area of Tunisia in the east, but it was
not IN Tunisia, nor was he from there. Neither was St. Augustin. I don't
remember where Yughurta was born. It doesn't matter where they were
born, but where their empire extended, and their descendants went.
and 99%
> of Tunisian don't know anything about this MIKKI-NEWS!, nothing!, neither do
> the Algerians in the East part of Algeria..If those people spoke any other
> language, they must have spoke what today Tunisians, Constantinians and
> annabi, Biskris speak or a language very simillair to it!, they spoke
> DERJA!, a western SEMITIC-ARABIC language!...The Kabyle and chaoui dialects
> are just an other type of DERJA, Tamazight was just recently Kreated by the
> KKI!.period, and it is THEIR language, they should learn it and cherish it!,
> it has nothing to do with the N.Africans semitic Maghrebins people!..>>
You think that what you know today must have always been and will always
be.
> Are you telling us that the kabyles used to be in Konstantine and they
> migrated to Djurdjura?!!, why?, how come the others remained!?, are you
> telling us that the constantinois are originally KABYLES people?, and they
> USED to speak KABYLE??!!, are they claiming so?..or they just INVADED the
> Kabyles and the Kabyles moved to the mountains??!. be DIRECT!..Are the
> Kabyles semitic or indio-european people?
> Fodil
Neither. They are "hamitic," or as classified today, Afro-Asiatic. The
Amazigh went into the mountains at first to escape the Romans who had
changed their lands into latifundas. They did not want to work the lands
for the Romans and be nothing more than their slaves.
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > "US" means Algerians/North Africans, and YES THANKS GOODNESS that
you
> > are not one of US. Because we don't care for a desperado foreign
> > aythith with no principals, who is in the habit of changing her
> > positions more often than changing her underwears. A foreign
missionary
> > with $$ as her moral compass!>>
> I am half north African
"North african" a la camus does count, lavigerie!!
> Personally, I wish one could say one's people were all wonderful, but
> there is always some to remind us that we need to take the trash out
> every day.
That is where you come in, foreign trash!, and you stink, pewwwwwwh!!
We need some jawi here!!
> I've got more principals
You don't know the meaning of the word pricipal, settut kharrabet el
buyut!!
Your principals: settutism, khobthism, $$$, playing algerian against
algerian, wearing 100's hats, issarkess(lies), just to name a few.
> You think that with all your insults, you'll make me shut up.
You know the rule, you insult me, you get insulted. Very simple!
And no, I don't want to shut you up! You are the subject of my research
and I hate see you go! You are a classic case : a foreign missionary
with $$ as her moral compass!
You are free to say whatever you want. But your issarkess(lies), half-
backed stats/studies, division games, half truths would not go
unchallenged!
> > > That should have been great-grandfather. My paternal grandmother's
> > > father. Of course I thought my grandfather was Arab.
> > But we are talking just a few weeks ago? Do you want the quote?>>
> A few weeks ago? Don't waste your time. You'll be taking out of
context
> as usual.
Translation: you lied!!
> > > Like many people, I
> > > thought north Africans were Arabs in the present and Berbers in
the
> > > past.
> > What happened to all the books you read? What happened to the
> > scholarship song you have been singing? Don't tell me a scholar of
your
> > calibar would not know the difference between an arab and a berber!
> You know perfectly well that the books in the west talk about berbers
> as nothing more than exotic illiterates from the mountains
When you were claiming that you background was arab, you were singing
the scholarship song. That is the point, desperado creature!
> > You are nothing but foreign recycled material. >>
>
> And of course, I'm foreign.
Good, girl. Just don't try to pass(as you have been doing).
> Your position/identity
> > depends on the the HAT you are wearing at the moment. That is all!!>
> > Happy trails, desperado thing!
> At least I change mine when I realize it's dirty.
Your whole pathetic life is dirty, foreign aythith!!
Happy trails, desperado!
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > > and I have no reason to
> > > dispute it as I have seen nothing to contradict it.
> > In other words you subcribe to the theory that that the arabs were
the
> > first ones to intruduce slave- trading into north africa.>>
> I acknowledge the possibility. Arabs were traders, and if the people
> weren't Muslim, they saw nothing wrong with it. They took slaves as
> booty in their conquests. Are you going to deny that too? What do you
> want to do, whitewash Arab history?
Don't confuse issues, settut! The issue is: who introduced slave-
trading to N africa. You are saying the arabs. I am saying you wrong!
> > No, I did not see the film and I didn't say it was anti-arab. All I
did
> > was disput what you said: the arabs introduced slave-trading in
North
> > Africa!
> You have not disputed it. You are simply filling these boards, as
usual,
> with a bunch of "izzane." Prettier sounding word than the English
> equivalent.
You say shit, I say izzane. It is the same shit :)
> > Your shawititis is flaring up, poor foreign recycled garbage!>
> I like Chaouis
Tozzzzzz!! Not that we care.
> > > You are a sell-out.
> > Hachak, foreigh ho!! The sell-out is the foreign recycled garbage
who
> > has $$$ as her moral compass : YOU!>>
>
> You bet I have my own moral compass.
I know: $$$$
> truth
In the words of jack," you cannot stand the truth." You version of the
truth is based on the color of the HAT you are wearing at the time!
> I can't be bought.
This one deserves a big tozayza...TOZZZZZZZ!
> I care only about what is right
Your "what is right" is determined by: $$$ and the hat you are wearing
at the time!!
> You're the "ho," Mr. Diaspora.
Hachak, kahub, foreign aythith/good for nothing!!
> > Poor desperado!! Being Chaoui is the very essence of my being,
foreign
> > aythith!! Something a MISSIONARY ROOTLESS CREATURE will never
> > understand!! It is a soul thing, something souless creature like
> > yourself will never understand!!
> LOL! I've got a soul, Mr. Diaspora.
No wonder the flip flopping
No wonder settutism
No wonder playing all cards
No wonder playing algerian against algerian
I could go on, but I will stop for now.
> there's always that one rotten apple to spoil
> things.
That is where you came in, recycled foreign garbage!
> > > Regionalism, yes.
> > That is what you are adovacting, queen of secterism!! Your dream is
to
> > see Algeria turned into TRIBES WITH FLAGS!>>
>
> You are tribal in your regionalistic mentality, Diaspora.
yes, I am a tribal man, and my tribe is ALGERIA!! The same Algeria you
are portraying as land of TRIBES WITH FLAGS!!
Happy trails, foreign aythith!!
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > > She is correct.
> > > There was
> > > no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
> > > at that time.
> > No, she is wrong! She said "arabs introduced slave-trading to north
> > africa." That is fiction! The Romans practiced slave trading in
North
> > Africa. It was not on a large scale, but it was there.
> Prove it, or quit with your nonsense. Prove me wrong. Your words don't
> count, Diaspora. You are nobody. You're just a name. A name with no
> transparency whatsoever. So come up with your proof.
Shalom mrs"Tlemcen was 60% jewish",
Does " The Berbers by Brett & Fentress" ring a bell? It should!,
because it the same book you used many times without giving the authors
any credit. And by 'using' I don't mean ideas. I mean sections of the
books. In short, PLAGIARIZE! Do you want the posts ?
Now, you said " arabs introduced slave trading to North Africa."
" A customs tariff from the south-eastern borders of Mauretania mention
a tax on slaves, which suggests they were brought up from the south. A
geography called the the Expositio Totius Mundus et Gentium names
slaves as the principal export of Mauretania..." The Berbers by Brett &
Fentess, 1996, p 68. Also, check what St Augustine letters say. Same
reference.
us...@sprintpipe.com
Effectively , the above was stated in Brett's book.
thanks for the reference.
Concerning Arabs, the island of Zanzibar
was one of the location where they traded
slaves. Arabs did not introduce slavery
in North Africa but they perpetuate
its legacy. In facts Tourags do still
practice slavery nowadays.
An example where Arabs still
practice slavery today is Soudan.
Mo Benali
Mediocrity continues...
Fodil wrote in message ...
>
>
>I have PROOF that Massinissa used to sell the forfathers of todays KABYLES
>to the spaniards and the King of Carthage kicked his ass for that..
>
>Proof:
>
>One day, a good friend of mine and I, he is 100% and sang pour sang MISS
>TAMURT but NOT part of the IMAZIGHEN, he thinks it is just TIKHARBISHIN(he
>is from TIZI) and NOT a Zdimoh..We were having some coffee (kuna nsherbu
>qhawi, rak ta3ref wa anta tradiuziha kima habit), and suddenly this dude
>showed up, my friend told me to take a look at this guy and in his own
words
>he said to me" Hada min tawa3na", "this guy is one of us", he thought he
was
>MOKRANE from his village, after a brief verbal exchange, we found out that
>this Mokarane's native language is spanish from el-Salvador!..How did
>Mokrane happened to be born in el-Salvador?!!. A:The conquisatadors were in
>el-Salvador..
>
>Donc, puisKe kayen des mexicains QBAYEL, c'est sur et certain que
Massinissa
>les a vendu aux espagnols!..
>
>Fodil
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> I am convinced this is another propaganda film that intended to
>> >> stereotype
>> >> Arabs as slave-traders
>> >
>> >But you said the arabs were the ones who introduced slave-trading to
>> >north africa, so what is the big deal, settut? You cannot have your
>> >makroud and eat it too!!
>> >
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Now, you said " arabs introduced slave trading to North Africa."
>
> " A customs tariff from the south-eastern borders of Mauretania mention
> a tax on slaves, which suggests they were brought up from the south. A
> geography called the the Expositio Totius Mundus et Gentium names
> slaves as the principal export of Mauretania..." The Berbers by Brett &
> Fentess, 1996, p 68. Also, check what St Augustine letters say. Same
> reference.
>
> --
> diaspora.
Diaspora, Mauretania, the country of Mauretania, which is entirely in
the Sahara desert, is not generally considered part of North Africa.
Some include it, but it was not historical north Africa, and I
specifically talked about the area once called Afrika/Afrikiya, which
includes only the countries I've mentioned before: Morocco, Algeria,
Tunisia, and part of Libya (although I prefer to consider Libya as a
whole). The area that the historians referred to, the ones that based
their records on the Romans, was, in fact, north of the Sahara, although
today, we don't want to split the countries, and we take the whole of
these north African countries. Mauretania is not included.
However, your reference concerning St. Augustine's letters, which
according to the book have been newly discovered (an important piece of
information you conveniently left out) is interesting. However, from
what St. Augustine says, the slave trading was done overseas. Slaves
were not sold in north Africa from what he says. He refers to Africa,
and because of the spelling and the English (original not given), I
don't know if he's talking about only north Africa or the entire known
area of the continent. Terms changed so often, I can't find when the
continent started being called Africa, and not just the northern area,
as it was called still in the 2nd century. Either way, he does not
mention slave-trading in the area, but the exportation of them overseas.
Which does not contradict the information I have, which says slaves in
the Roman province of north Africa were from orphans, criminals, etc.
What historians say is that the Arab traders brought it to the area of
north Africa. In other words, they were being bought and sold INSIDE
north Africa.
bmadani
us...@sprintpipe.com wrote:
>
> Effectively , the above was stated in Brett's book.
> thanks for the reference.
> Concerning Arabs, the island of Zanzibar
> was one of the location where they traded
> slaves. Arabs did not introduce slavery
> in North Africa but they perpetuate
> its legacy. In facts Tourags do still
> practice slavery nowadays.
> An example where Arabs still
> practice slavery today is Soudan.>
These are Sudanese, no different from their Christian counterparts
ethnically speaking, who happen to be Arabic-speaking and Muslim. Real
Arabs should really do something about their name being smirched by
others :))
Fodil
The arabs were the first ones to introduce WHITE slavery!, they abolished
black slavery and they started selling the romans and others in the
Market(fi souk). TRUE..
Fodil
<us...@sprintpipe.com> wrote in message
news:39197d2f...@news.pipeline.com...
> diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> > > She is correct.
> >> > > There was
> >> > > no such thing as slave trading in North Africa
> >> > > at that time.
> >
> >> > No, she is wrong! She said "arabs introduced slave-trading to north
> >> > africa." That is fiction! The Romans practiced slave trading in
> >North
> >> > Africa. It was not on a large scale, but it was there.
> >
> >> Prove it, or quit with your nonsense. Prove me wrong. Your words don't
> >> count, Diaspora. You are nobody. You're just a name. A name with no
> >> transparency whatsoever. So come up with your proof.
> >
> >Shalom mrs"Tlemcen was 60% jewish",
> >
> >Does " The Berbers by Brett & Fentress" ring a bell? It should!,
> >because it the same book you used many times without giving the authors
> >any credit. And by 'using' I don't mean ideas. I mean sections of the
> >books. In short, PLAGIARIZE! Do you want the posts ?
> >
> >Now, you said " arabs introduced slave trading to North Africa."
> >
> >" A customs tariff from the south-eastern borders of Mauretania mention
> >a tax on slaves, which suggests they were brought up from the south. A
> >geography called the the Expositio Totius Mundus et Gentium names
> >slaves as the principal export of Mauretania..." The Berbers by Brett &
> >Fentess, 1996, p 68. Also, check what St Augustine letters say. Same
> >reference.
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >diaspora.
>
Fodil
Oh!, you found a lot of latin Americans that look like algerians and
Maghrebins, but this dude looked like a typiKal KABYLE a la miss tamurt!...
Of course HANNIBAL took slaves with him while comquering spain..I've been
telling you that the TRUE BERBERS are the ones that have Arabic-Derja as
their mother tongue and/or combination of arabo-kabyle language!, others are
just MIXED and mixed up!..Slave trading was born in North africa!, the arbs
were the first ones to introduce whute slavery, the Muslims never sold other
Muslims..(The berbers did sell each others)..
Fodil
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:39193A5D...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
>
> >
> > I have PROOF that Massinissa used to sell the forfathers of todays
KABYLES
> > to the spaniards and the King of Carthage kicked his ass for that..
> >
> > Proof:
> >
> > One day, a good friend of mine and I, he is 100% and sang pour sang MISS
> > TAMURT but NOT part of the IMAZIGHEN, he thinks it is just
TIKHARBISHIN(he
> > is from TIZI) and NOT a Zdimoh..We were having some coffee (kuna nsherbu
> > qhawi, rak ta3ref wa anta tradiuziha kima habit), and suddenly this dude
> > showed up, my friend told me to take a look at this guy and in his own
words
> > he said to me" Hada min tawa3na", "this guy is one of us", he thought he
was
> > MOKRANE from his village, after a brief verbal exchange, we found out
that
> > this Mokarane's native language is spanish from el-Salvador!..How did
> > Mokrane happened to be born in el-Salvador?!!. A:The conquisatadors were
in
> > el-Salvador..
> >
> > Donc, puisKe kayen des mexicains QBAYEL, c'est sur et certain que
Massinissa
> > les a vendu aux espagnols!..
> >
> > Fodil
>
>
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> Ya el-Ama Zighiou!..
>
> The arabs were the first ones to introduce WHITE slavery!, they abolished
> black slavery and they started selling the romans and others in the
> Market(fi souk). TRUE..
>
> Fodil
Very funny. Color in slavery was not an issue for centuries later,
introduced by the Europeans in the New World.
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> Oh!, you found a lot of latin Americans that look like algerians and
> Maghrebins, but this dude looked like a typiKal KABYLE a la miss tamurt!...>>
Fodil, I didn't say I found a lot of Latin Americans that look like
them. You mentioned the looks, and I said that those who came over were
conversos, i.e., Moors, and thus Amazigh, which would explain the look
among some. I wouldn't say A LOT look like Algerians or Maghrebins.
There are many mixes in Latin America.
So, he looked like a typical Kabyle. Maybe his genes mixed in the right
way to come out with that look, or maybe his ancestors were Kabyles.
What's the big deal?
Fodil
It was an issue!..
the ARABS and in particular the MUSLIMS introduced WHITE slavery...
A reason why most Black people became Muslims, they were treated equally..
Fodil
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > Oh!, you found a lot of latin Americans that look like algerians and
> > Maghrebins, but this dude looked like a typiKal KABYLE a la miss
tamurt!...>>
>
> Fodil, I didn't say I found a lot of Latin Americans that look like
> them. You mentioned the looks, and I said that those who came over were
> conversos, i.e., Moors, and thus Amazigh, which would explain the look
No, they WERE NOT AMAZIGH!, NO WAY!, they were the forfathers of todays
ARABOPHONES, and they are mainly olive-skinned people and semitic..
The AMAZIGH/IMAZIGHEN is a NEW term used to designate some people in KABYLIE
grande', and most of them do believe that they are INDIO-EUROPEANS and
arabic is NOT their native language..CAPICE.
There are TWO GROUPS of KABYLES IN Algeria, if you don't believe me ask the
old-timers.
There is no word for race , semitic or indio-european in OUR DERJA, but now
I came to understand what my father tried to explain to me in my youth..
Kabyles come in two TWO GROUPS:
1. KABYLES-HURR = (Kabyles-FREE) that my father and his forfathers think
that they are the SAME people.
2. KABYLE-HARTANIS (mixed amd mixed up), mainly today's IMA Z GHEN and the
ones with the FLAG, basically the ones that think of themselves as
INDIO-EUROPEANS..
The Kabyles that think of themselves as SEMITIC people think ARABIC and
ISLAM is their LANGUAGE/CULTURE so is KABYLE dialect, others that do NOT
think of themselves as semitic think that Arabic and DERJA and ISLAM is a
FOREIGN.
There is NO big deal, the truth is MASSINISSA SOLD today's KABYLES
forfathers to the SPANIARDS, because he thought that they were
FOREIGNERS(berbers)..
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
Fodil, over half of the slaves in Rome around the 1st or 2nd century
were Greeks. To my knowledge, Greeks are not black. Romans also enslaved
Amazigh, as well as others from their various provinces. According to
the Jews, the Egyptians made slaves of them in ancient times. Were these
black Jews?
You speak nonsense after nonsense.
Fodil
Nobody sold the ROMANS, except the arabs!, they used to sell them in the
market.."Thlatha b' 3ashreen wa arfed ya guellil!"..
According to my knowledge greeks and jews are not white..
Fodil
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3919B31F...@worldnet.att.net...
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3919AA9E...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> No, they WERE NOT AMAZIGH!, NO WAY!, they were the forfathers of todays
> ARABOPHONES, and they are mainly olive-skinned people and semitic..>>
Since when is the color of the skin a determinant? The entire
Mediterranean world has mixed colors, including within families, ranging
from very fair to olive tones. They may originally have come with these
mixtures. No reason why not as the environmental conditions would not
require that skin be one color or the other to better survive. As for
the semitic (which is a language, and not a race), looks vary, and not
only from group to group but also through time. What they look like
today is not necessarily what they looked like 5000 years ago or even
1400 years ago.
> The AMAZIGH/IMAZIGHEN is a NEW term used to designate some people in KABYLIE
> grande', and most of them do believe that they are INDIO-EUROPEANS and
> arabic is NOT their native language..CAPICE.>
Fodil, Amazigh is a very old term used to designate the people from the
Canary Islands to the Siwa in Egypt. The international Amazigh
association includes people from all over. They are not just Kabyles.
And not just Kabyles in Algeria, either.
How can you say that "most of them" believe they are Indo-European? Have
you ever read anything serious written by them? Have you ever gone to an
event sponsored by the Imazighen and talked to the people? Even here on
this SCA, did you ever hear Soucha or Bourras say they were European?
Did Mo ever say he was European? Has Massine? You have new posters. Ask
them if they think they are European. You're only one-third right in
your statement. They believe, no, correction, they KNOW that Arabic is
not their native language.
> There are TWO GROUPS of KABYLES IN Algeria, if you don't believe me ask the
> old-timers.>
Which old-timers, Fodil? The arabophones from Algiers?
> There is NO big deal, the truth is MASSINISSA SOLD today's KABYLES
> forfathers to the SPANIARDS, because he thought that they were
> FOREIGNERS(berbers)..>
Can you please give me a reference for this. I have checked into
everything I can find about Massinissa, and I have yet to find anything
that says he sold the Amazigh into slavery.
And why the Spaniards? Are you trying to pick on my other half?
diasp...@my-deja.com
> >Does " The Berbers by Brett & Fentress" ring a bell? It should!,
> >because it the same book you used many times without giving the
authors
> >any credit. And by 'using' I don't mean ideas. I mean sections of the
> >books. In short, PLAGIARIZE! Do you want the posts ?
> >
> >Now, you said " arabs introduced slave trading to North Africa."
> >
> >" A customs tariff from the south-eastern borders of Mauretania
mention
> >a tax on slaves, which suggests they were brought up from the south.
A
> >geography called the the Expositio Totius Mundus et Gentium names
> >slaves as the principal export of Mauretania..." The Berbers by
Brett &
> >Fentess, 1996, p 68. Also, check what St Augustine letters say. Same
> >reference.
> Arabs did not introduce slavery
> in North Africa
That is the point of our discussion!
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> Nobody sold the ROMANS, except the arabs!, they used to sell them in the
> market.."Thlatha b' 3ashreen wa arfed ya guellil!"..
>
> According to my knowledge greeks and jews are not white..
> Fodil>>
Greeks are European, Fodil. The original Greeks. Today's Greeks are a
mixture of peoples like all Mediterranean. And they are not black.
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:3919B31F...@worldnet.att.net...
> >
> >
> > Fodil wrote:
> > >
> > > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
Fodil
Blnaca!..
Bear in mind that you just read about the KABYLES, I came from THEM..You
cannot teach me who the KABYLES are, what I wrote down is the TRUTH 100%..
Soucha said himself that he IS NOT semitic!, Bouras is an ARAB 100%..He just
believes in HISTORY and theory..He knows nothing about the Kabyles, he is
from MELIANA..Soucha learned about the Kabyles by visiting villages,
actually he knows more about their habits and traditions than most Kabyles
do, he studied them. He is the only one that answered my questions regarding
where the best Olive oil is produced, and NOT in KABYLIE GRANDE'..
Massine is just lost, not only he believes in history but also in Islam??!,
and he still thinks he is part of the IMAZIGHEN after one of them made fun
of him..
NONE of the IMAZIGHEN believes in THE ALGERIAN-MAGHREBIN state, they all
think that ISLAM and ARABIC are part of Arab Colonization.
Which is WRONG! and FALSE. The TRUE berbers have been speaking several
related dialects, and one of them is la DERJA which is the closest to modern
arabic, this tells you that the berbers are just an other group of the
arabs, who came first has to be studied further. (the berber or the arab?),
the chicken or the egg?.
Arabic is NOT foreign, for the simple reason that OUR derja still exist..
Tradtionally, there has been no DIFFRENCE between an "ARAB" and a KABYLE,
and the difference has been in the mounatin dialect, Kabyles tend to use
more DERJA of the DERJA.period..
Ask them to translate the following in their LANGUGAE that they speak at
home:
After READING some BOOKS, we the IMAZIGHEN found out that HISTORY says that
the Tamazight LANGUAGE existed and the KABYLES did READ and did WRITE this
tamazight. But As a simple HUMAN BEING and a MUSLIM, I BELIEVE that
IMAGINATION is better than KNOWLEDGE..
We, the KABYLES COUNT in arabic, and we use arabic NUMBERS, because arabic
has been the LANGUAGE of our ANCESTORS and Islam is our RELIGION. Tamazight
Language can be LEARNED by the ALGERIANS if only if the IMAZIGHEN admit that
this LANGUAGE is FULL of ARABIC and NOT just MIKKI stuff.
Fodil(be dhad)
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3919BB0F...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
?
diasp...@my-deja.com
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Now, you said " arabs introduced slave trading to North Africa."
> >
> > " A customs tariff from the south-eastern borders of Mauretania
mention
> > a tax on slaves, which suggests they were brought up from the
south. A
> > geography called the the Expositio Totius Mundus et Gentium names
> > slaves as the principal export of Mauretania..." The Berbers by
Brett &
> > Fentess, 1996, p 68. Also, check what St Augustine letters say. Same
> > reference.
> Diaspora, Mauretania, the country of Mauretania, which is entirely in
> the Sahara desert, is not generally considered part of North Africa.
Guess again!!
> Some include it, but it was not historical north Africa, and I
> specifically talked about the area once called Afrika/Afrikiya, which
> includes only the countries I've mentioned before: Morocco, Algeria,
> Tunisia, and part of Libya (although I prefer to consider Libya as a
> whole). The area that the historians referred to, the ones that based
> their records on the Romans, was, in fact, north of the Sahara
Parts of Today's Mauritania was under the Roman ifluence!
> However, your reference concerning St. Augustine's letters, which
> according to the book have been newly discovered (an important piece
of
> information you conveniently left out) is interesting. However, from
> what St. Augustine says, the slave trading was done overseas. Slaves
> were not sold in north Africa from what he says. He refers to Africa,
> and because of the spelling and the English (original not given), I
> don't know if he's talking about only north Africa or the entire known
> area of the continent. Terms changed so often, I can't find when the
> continent started being called Africa, and not just the northern area,
> as it was called still in the 2nd century. Either way, he does not
> mention slave-trading in the area, but the exportation of them
overseas.
> Which does not contradict the information I have, which says slaves in
> the Roman province of north Africa were from orphans, criminals, etc.
ToZZZZZZ!! Read again!
> What historians say is that the Arab traders brought it to the area of
> north Africa.
The arabs didn't introduce slave-trading to n africa!!
Read 'The berbers', chapter 2(i think). I will come back to the subject
later on.
bmadani
>
> Blnaca!..
> Bear in mind that you just read about the KABYLES, I came from THEM..You
> cannot teach me who the KABYLES are, what I wrote down is the TRUTH 100%..>>
Let's get something straight, Fodil. I didn't read ABOUT the Kabyles. I
read what they themselves have written and have listened to what they
have to say. You are perhaps descendant of them, maybe, but how many
generations? You did not live in Kabylie. You are not a Kabyle.
> Soucha said himself that he IS NOT semitic!, Bouras is an ARAB 100%..He just
> believes in HISTORY and theory..He knows nothing about the Kabyles, he is
> from MELIANA..>>
Meliana was Amazigh. Use to be called Zucchabar, and it was Amazigh.
Would you like the references?
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Diaspora, Mauretania, the country of Mauretania, which is entirely in
> > the Sahara desert, is not generally considered part of North Africa.
>
> Guess again!!
>
> > Some include it, but it was not historical north Africa, and I
> > specifically talked about the area once called Afrika/Afrikiya, which
> > includes only the countries I've mentioned before: Morocco, Algeria,
> > Tunisia, and part of Libya (although I prefer to consider Libya as a
> > whole). The area that the historians referred to, the ones that based
> > their records on the Romans, was, in fact, north of the Sahara
>
> Parts of Today's Mauritania was under the Roman ifluence!>>
Diaspora, I repeat. I am not talking about what all was under the Roman
influence--so was Syria and Spain, but they are not north Africa. I'm
talking specifically about the area they considered north Africa, called
Afrika/Afrikiyya. Mauretania is not generally considered part of north
Africa. It is included by some today, but not all. It is not
geographically in north Africa and was not part of the Roman province of
Afrika.
> > However, your reference concerning St. Augustine's letters, which
> > according to the book have been newly discovered (an important piece
> of
> > information you conveniently left out) is interesting. However, from
> > what St. Augustine says, the slave trading was done overseas. Slaves
> > were not sold in north Africa from what he says. He refers to Africa,
> > and because of the spelling and the English (original not given), I
> > don't know if he's talking about only north Africa or the entire known
> > area of the continent. Terms changed so often, I can't find when the
> > continent started being called Africa, and not just the northern area,
> > as it was called still in the 2nd century. Either way, he does not
> > mention slave-trading in the area, but the exportation of them
> overseas.
> > Which does not contradict the information I have, which says slaves in
> > the Roman province of north Africa were from orphans, criminals, etc.
>
> ToZZZZZZ!! Read again!>
You read again. St. Augustine said that slaves were exported. They were
not being sold INSIDE north Africa. We don't even know what part of
Africa he was talking about or what routes they took.
>
> > What historians say is that the Arab traders brought it to the area of
> > north Africa.
>
> The arabs didn't introduce slave-trading to n africa!!
>
> Read 'The berbers', chapter 2(i think). I will come back to the subject
> later on.
I did read it, Diaspora. I went to see exactly what it said as it
appeared to be in contradiction to other things the book had said. But
then I realized it was talking about sending these abroad. Not for the
province of Afrika. Not in north Africa.
Fodil
But what is their native language!?
They speak ARABIC-DERJA, a reason why the BERBERS are ARABS, the same
people..The BERBERS are the forfathers of the ARABIANS-Yemenites or
vice-versa..BOURAS is KAHL RAS!, no doubt about it..
The ARABIAN-MUSLIMS did NOT arabize the MAGHREBINS-BERBERS, they just
FORMALIZED and CONFIRMED them as ARABS and MUSLIMS, and that is the TRUTH.
The Maghrebins in ture Arabize the arabians, the newcomers!..DERJA was
spoken by the BERBERS before the ARABIAN-MUSLIMS set foot in N.AFRICA..The
mountain people soke an other similair N.African(Maghrebin) berber dialect
simillair to the DERJA. I think chawia contain more
N.African-Maghrebin-berber words than KABYLE, from readind Diaspora's
tachawith, it appears that it contains more WOUO than the kabyle dialect,
Kabyle is mostly arabic, because Kabylie is closer to Algiers than Aures to
Constantine..
The IMAZIGHEN are the ones that completly deny this fact.
Fodil
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
I think chawia contain more
> N.African-Maghrebin-berber words than KABYLE, from readind Diaspora's
> tachawith, it appears that it contains more WOUO than the kabyle dialect,
> Kabyle is mostly arabic, because Kabylie is closer to Algiers than Aures to
> Constantine..
This is bull. The differences between the two dialects is mainly in the
sound where some letters have replaced others or where one or the other
drops a vowel.
Fodil
HOW do you know??!,
Diaspora wrote words that do not exist in KABYLE, in Kabyle they USE
ARABIC..The truth is that the CHAWIS consider arabic and the derja as part
of their language, which makes sense because the DERJA is the language of
the BERBERS since the begining of history..
Fodil
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> > This is bull. The differences between the two dialects is mainly in the
> > sound where some letters have replaced others or where one or the other
> > drops a vowel.
>
> HOW do you know??!,
Because I've been reading on the grammar of the two and comparing the
words.
>
> Diaspora wrote words that do not exist in KABYLE, in Kabyle they USE
> ARABIC..
You have been given the Kabyle, and you refuse to accept those are the
words.
The truth is that the CHAWIS consider arabic and the derja as part
> of their language, which makes sense because the DERJA is the language of
> the BERBERS since the begining of history..
>
> Fodil
Define Choaui.
Fodil
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
>
> > > This is bull. The differences between the two dialects is mainly in
the
> > > sound where some letters have replaced others or where one or the
other
> > > drops a vowel.
> >
> > HOW do you know??!,
>
> Because I've been reading on the grammar of the two and comparing the
> words.
>
which is NOT the same in KABYLE, and many more different words..
>
> >
> > Diaspora wrote words that do not exist in KABYLE, in Kabyle they USE
> > ARABIC..
>
> You have been given the Kabyle, and you refuse to accept those are the
> words.
What words?!!, bull shit, they call TREE SADJRA, they call HUMAN BEING INSAN
or "IBN ADEM" or "3abd rebbi", they use mostly ARABIC words for everything
that they don't SEE or IMAGINE, and they TOLD you so, they use ARABIC, some
arabized french words and other berber ancient mountain words and some of
these words are completly different than the chawia, the m'zabia and have
nothing in COMMON with TARGUI, it's Kabylo-Kabyle EXCLUSIVE..
Do you think they call BOOK adles?!, or READ aru??!!.or FISH aslem!, or SEA
AVhar!!..They use ARABIC and they know it, a reason why they INVENTED
TAMAZIGHT so they won't use ARABIC anymore!..because these people think that
ARABIC is FOREIGN, which is all LIES!, LIES!..
This is just a simple proof that ARABIC has been part of the N.AFRICANS
since the begining of time
>
> The truth is that the CHAWIS consider arabic and the derja as part
> > of their language, which makes sense because the DERJA is the language
of
> > the BERBERS since the begining of history..
> >
> > Fodil
>
> Define Choaui.
Chaoui are NORTH AFRICANS, and MAGHREBINS, they believe in their
ALGERIANITE, and their CHAOUI-AURASSI characters and some of them still
speak the OLD AURASSI dialect and they speak it well, and most of them
master the DERJA like any other ALGERIAN and MAGHREBIN, they are TRUE
BERBERS!..and you translate it any which way you want, and they'll side with
the ARABS and the MUSLIMS and NOT with the Indio-Europeans Imazighen!, they
never betray their heritage, never!..
Fodil
diasp...@my-deja.com
> Diaspora, I repeat. I am not talking about what all was under the
Roman
> influence--so was Syria and Spain, but they are not north Africa.
We are talking north africa, scholar material!
-Ancient Muaretania was made of today's Morocco(mostly) and some parts
of today's Mauritania. In other words, north africa!
-Slave-trading was practiced in north africa during the roman era. It
took different forms, but it was slavery.
-Arabs did practice slave-trading, but they were not the ones to
introduced it to north africa.
Fodil
Hey! Blanka be direct!..
Your grand father would have told you about his NATIVE language, and if his
native language was ARABIC his name must have been an ARABIC name,
especially if he was a MUSLIM..We say "asmu ya3tik akhbarou", "his name
tells you all about him".Unless he was from grande Kabylie, if this is the
case his native dialect is KABYLE +DERJA(Maghrebia). You can tell by just
his FIRST and LAST name..
Be DIRECT!, we are NO FOOLS!..
And your theory that today's Kabyles forfathers used to be in CONSTANTINE
and moved to Djurdjura is balloney!, and MIKKItoiZm 100%..
Forget TUNISIA, Massinissa is from Cirta, and there is NO trace of TAMAZIGHT
in Constantine, Yughurta is from Biskra and there is no trace of Tamazight!,
guess where they found traces of Tamazight?, in mostly ARABIC-speaking
areas..
Yes they were born what is TODAY ALGERIA, but it was YESTERDAY TUNISIA(but
this is not the issue), I just want to remind you that 99% of TUNISIANS do
not believe in this Amazighomania, I wonder why?!!, that's all.
O.K. St augustine was born what is Today Souk-Ahras and lived in what is
today ANNABA, how come there is no trace of this Tamazight in these cities,
you claimed that they spoke TAMAZIGHT and that language existed!!, how did
it disapear from the ENTIRE population!, did the KABYLES take it with them?,
if so how come they NEVER WROTE it nor READ it, and they USE arabic words
for READ and WRITE, how come?..Is it maybe the TRUE ARABS are mainly the
KABYLES!?, you see we all can have theories..
The truth is, all these MOUNTAIN dialects were spoken by moutain people, and
TAMAZIGHT never existed as ONE language, and the Numedians spoke punic which
is nothing more than TODAY's DERJA, the same they speak in East algeria nad
Tunisia..and all these mountain dialects contained ARABIC since the day they
set foot in N.Africa.
Your goal and the goal of most westerners is to DIVIDE the ARAB world, they
always do their best to divide them, they are all afraid for the arabs to
unify themselves, because they all know that they'll became a big POWER in
all domaines if they forme the U.S.A., a reason why you would love to see
the KABYLES marginilized, faqou!!..NOT ALL Kabyles are fools..
There is NO difference between the MAGHREBINS and The MASRIQENS..
We just have to find a way to make them understand OUR prononciations and
our distinct maghrebin flavors, so they'll understand us, because we do
understand them...And some of them started to listen to our culture
already..
Fodil
bmadani
diasp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > Diaspora, I repeat. I am not talking about what all was under the
> Roman
> > influence--so was Syria and Spain, but they are not north Africa.
>
> We are talking north africa, scholar material!
>
> -Ancient Muaretania was made of today's Morocco(mostly) and some parts
> of today's Mauritania. In other words, north africa!
Don't be stupid. Mauritania was not part of the ancient province of
Afrika. It was not considered north Africa historically. And that's the
area that we're talking about. I have been very specific about it.
> -Slave-trading was practiced in north africa during the roman era. It
> took different forms, but it was slavery.
Not proven yet.
> -Arabs did practice slave-trading, but they were not the ones to
> introduced it to north africa.
Not proven yet.
I'm not saying you can't be right, but it is yet to be proven.
bmadani
Fodil wrote:
>
> Hey! Blanka be direct!..
More so?
> Your grand father would have told you about his NATIVE language,>>
That would have been difficult considering he died when my father was
still a baby. I wasn't anywhere in the picture yet.
and if his
> native language was ARABIC his name must have been an ARABIC name,
> especially if he was a MUSLIM..>>
Names can be changed, Fodil, especially when you migrate to a different
country. Names mean nothing to me. Every generation in my family for at
least 3-4 generations have changed their name or it's been changed for
them or circumstances forced the name change, so it means nothing to me.
We say "asmu ya3tik akhbarou", "his name
> tells you all about him".>>
Not anymore, unless you believe that the numbers and letters in a name
have a meaning. Names matter when they are associated with the families
they belong to. Otherwise, you make something of the name yourself.
Unless he was from grande Kabylie, if this is the
> case his native dialect is KABYLE +DERJA(Maghrebia). You can tell by just
> his FIRST and LAST name..
> Be DIRECT!, we are NO FOOLS!..
I've already said what his name was. Someone gave me a lead on the name
because he knew a family with that name that had another branch with the
original name. That would tell you what he was too clearly, so I'd
rather not say. Particularly since I don't know 100 percent for a fact
that this particular family is necessarily the right one. I presume
there could be more than one family with the same name.
> And your theory that today's Kabyles forfathers used to be in CONSTANTINE
> and moved to Djurdjura is balloney!, and MIKKItoiZm 100%..
I never said that. I never mentioned Constantine at all. To my
knowledge, it was the people in the villages who went to the mountains,
not those in the big cities.
> Forget TUNISIA, Massinissa is from Cirta, and there is NO trace of TAMAZIGHT
> in Constantine, Yughurta is from Biskra and there is no trace of Tamazight!,
> guess where they found traces of Tamazight?, in mostly ARABIC-speaking
> areas..
Are you sure that Massinissa was from Cirta? His father ruled the area
south of Constantine (Cirta), so it doesn't sound likely. Nevertheless,
these people were Amazigh, and the ancestors of all Algerians, and his
descendants, his direct descendants could be anywhere since they didn't
just stay put in one place generation after generation.
> Yes they were born what is TODAY ALGERIA, but it was YESTERDAY TUNISIA(but
> this is not the issue), I just want to remind you that 99% of TUNISIANS do
> not believe in this Amazighomania, I wonder why?!!, that's all.
Because the country was successfully arabized. The Tunisian government
has had a very firm hand in ruling the country, and there is no real
freedom there, despite its more secular laws.
> O.K. St augustine was born what is Today Souk-Ahras and lived in what is
> today ANNABA, how come there is no trace of this Tamazight in these cities,
> you claimed that they spoke TAMAZIGHT and that language existed!!, how did
> it disapear from the ENTIRE population!, did the KABYLES take it with them?,
> if so how come they NEVER WROTE it nor READ it, and they USE arabic words
> for READ and WRITE, how come?..Is it maybe the TRUE ARABS are mainly the
> KABYLES!?, you see we all can have theories..
But theories need to be based on something tangible, not from thin air,
Fodil. It did not disappear from the ENTIRE population. Millions of
people speak the language. It was written, but it was not used to write
history books. There's a whole history there explaining why Tamazight
isn't spoken in some areas. The Amazigh were not the only people in the
country, and when in power, they did not only use Tamazight.
> The truth is, all these MOUNTAIN dialects were spoken by moutain people, and
> TAMAZIGHT never existed as ONE language, and the Numedians spoke punic which
> is nothing more than TODAY's DERJA, the same they speak in East algeria nad
> Tunisia..and all these mountain dialects contained ARABIC since the day they
> set foot in N.Africa.
If that's the truth, you better tell it to the archaeologists and
historians. They have found evidence to the contrary.
> Your goal and the goal of most westerners is to DIVIDE the ARAB world, they
> always do their best to divide them,>>
I think the arab world has done a good job of dividing itself--their
leaders, that is.
they are all afraid for the arabs to
> unify themselves, because they all know that they'll became a big POWER in
> all domaines if they forme the U.S.A.,
That could have been true at one time, if they had not had leaders who
were only interested in personal power.
a reason why you would love to see
> the KABYLES marginilized, faqou!!..NOT ALL Kabyles are fools..
Are you nuts? The Kabyles ARE marginalized.
> There is NO difference between the MAGHREBINS and The MASRIQENS..
If there was no difference, then why label it maghreb and mashreq?
> We just have to find a way to make them understand OUR prononciations and
> our distinct maghrebin flavors, so they'll understand us, because we do
> understand them...And some of them started to listen to our culture
> already..
> Fodil
Why don't you use become totally Middle Eastern? Speak their dialect,
eat their food, convert totally to their music, dress in their style,
etc. That's what you want, isn't it?
Fodil
No Blanca!,
You are NOT being DIRECT, you are HIDING the truth and twisting everything
around and I don't care about your roots, I'm convinced that there is no
TRUE berber in it.period..
No, I do not want to become like the middle-easterners, my wish is that
they'll become like us and learn OUR Maghrebin culture!, because the BERBERS
are the forfathers of the middle-easterners!, and that is a non-debatable
FACT. My wish is that the leaders of all these 22 countries start listening
to the citizens and set them FREE and let them decide and VOTE for their
UNION, the new USA..And of course ARABIC and ENGLISH as main languages, and
Maghrebin language in the Maghreb as our sole identity..(Maghrebin language
should be composed as the common ground of ALL dialects spoken in the
maghreb, so we'll exist for ever as N.Africans)
If the Numedians did not use TAMAZIGHT, who did?..
Make up your mind!, at first you claimed that the AMAZIGH were NOT nomadic
and they established CIRTA!, and now you are saying that they migrated!,
why??..
Why didn't the Kabyles remain in CIRTA?, did they originate from Cirta?,
from Souk-Ahras?, from Aures?..
Why don't you explain to us how come ARABIC words so basic are found amongst
these mountain spoken dialect?, how?, did the arabs tell them to use the
word KITEB for book, did they tell them to use the word "insan" or "3abd
rebbi" or "bni adem" for "Human being", what about words like "To think',
"to imagine" and "to walk", and TREE! :))), what about words like READ and
WRITE, and why didn't the KABYLE take TAMAZIGHT with them to DJURDJURA!,
why?, why didn't they write it and read it?, why?, what about the chawia?,
maybe it was NEVER their language!..
Maybe Sid Ahmed Ali Touati can explain it, maybe they took this Tamazight in
his village of AZZEFFOUNE!..HOW did they LOOSE an ENTIRE LANGUAGE and now
they are claiming that they FOUND it!, where did they find it??!..Did the
arabs take it from them?, why?..
Blanca, the Kabyles neither the chaouis never heard nor read nor wrote this
Tamazight, the Miss Tamurt and les SPAMist invented this Tamazight and this
is the ONLY TRUTH..
SPAM = Sans Pitie contre Arabes & Musulmans.
I personally do recognize THEIR SPAM language as THEIRS..
Hey! Blanca.
A3rbi el-djoumla tali:
Inna el-MIKKIa Khortiyun.
Fodil
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:391A8323...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
diasp...@my-deja.com
> > -Ancient Muaretania was made of today's Morocco(mostly) and some
parts
> > of today's Mauritania. In other words, north africa!
> Don't be stupid. Mauritania was not part of the ancient province of
> Afrika. It was not considered north Africa historically.
Nonsense!
"The Numidian monarchs, like their counterparts in the neighboring
Berber Kingdoom of Mauritania(in ancient times, an area that is now
mostly Morocco rather than contemporary Mauritania), ruled in the
shadow of Cartage and later Rome when the latter vanquished the Punic
empire." Algeria by John P. Entelis(1986), p 8.
> > -Slave-trading was practiced in north africa during the roman era.
It
> > took different forms, but it was slavery.
> Not proven yet.
Yes, It has been proven!
It is time you provide us with your reference.
alma
guessing that's all!
You're confused imbecil! you're neither muslim or jew, Arab or Berber,
you're just a bastard.
--
Alma.
bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:3919C340...@worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > According to my knowledge greeks and jews are not white..
> > Fodil>>
>
> Greeks are European, Fodil. The original Greeks. Today's Greeks are a
> mixture of peoples like all Mediterranean. And they are not black.
>
> > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:3919B31F...@worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > Fodil wrote:
> > > >
> > > > bmadani <bama...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message