Some Kabyles are a real shame to Algeria
Khalid Lasfar
On Thu Jul 4 18:48:05 1996, jza...@aol.com (JZarow):
>>>>
As a non-Algerian 'gringa' student of Algeria, Africa, and lurker on this
list, it is clear to me that Jomaa,et al are particularly confused. One
need only to compare the conventional notion of
"a homogenous and harmonuous (harmonious)society"
and the stated vitriol
"despise those..."
It is evident Jomaa is filled with the disharmonious hatred while
condescending to allow the little natives to preserve a language like a
living artifact on display. In the States, the sarcastic response would be
'thank you mastah (master), can I shuffle to get you something? would you
like me to sing one of those slave spirituals you like to hear?'
<<<<
In the States, my friend, only one word could describe Natives;
discrimination and discrimination. In the States, how many percent of the
jobs in the government are held by American Natives, in Canada visible
minorities including the Canadian Natives hold 3% of the federal
government jobs, despite the fact that visible minorities represent about
30% of the Canadian population.
In Algeria or Morocco, anyone will tell you that's the Kabyles and the
Shlouha, get the best jobs and own the corner store at the end of every
street.
>>>>
Jomaa either cannot, or does not want, to understand the relationship
between 'radical ' and 'root'. It is often necessary to cut through the
layers and get to the bottom of things in order to really understand.
There can be no question that historically, Arabs understood the concept,
thus their success at great cost to others.
<<<<
I will ask you to bring your proof of genocide by the Arabs against
others, otherwise shut up!
>>>>
Algerian pain, past and present, gives rise to sadness. But it is with
greater dismay that from the lack of wisdom, and apparent unwillingness to
rise to the demands of the current struggle, notable on this list, the
future is not bright either.
<<<<
Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
the French colonizers.
When I say French colonizers I mean the one who invaded our land and
degraded our people, and the one who keep getting mixed in our interior
politics. There are also the French who welcomed with open arms millions
of our brothers and sisters, the anti-fascist French who fought for the
freedom of oppressed peoples everywhere, the ones who refused to leave
France during the colonization to go and oppress other people, the ones
who became our concubines, and the ones who became our brothers and
sisters in Islam.
Were is you crystal ball? What do you know about the future? Could you
talk about it a bit longer?
>>>>
I wish you all, your families and your country peace. Peace is not the
absence of conflict. It is related to how you deal with it.
JAZ
<<<<
What you are wishing Algerians is not peace, it's civil war because you
are accusing the Arabs of a crime they never committed against the
Amazighens. You call yourself an outsider, you demonstrated your
ignorance of North Africa's history. The Berbers (or Amazighens) are no
ordinary natives or first nations, nor a 'little natives', in the Maghreb
context, they represent a large portion of the population. If they really
felt mistreated, they could declared civil war at the time when the French
colonizer give them full support to do so.
Another important thing you should know, the Berbers occupy key position
in the governments and everywhere else in the maghrebin society. For a
comparison I challenge you to show me a native American or Canadian in a
high position or who own a big corporation. Unlike the Canadian natives,
who can vote only since the sixties, the Berbers in my homeland always
have them say in the Maghreb's daily life. Indeed in Morocco the Berbers
never obeyed a government until the late 19th century, it was called 'bled
siba' the ungovernable land.
Next time before insulting and mistreating my friend Mr. Ben Yassine,
please listen to him carefully, you'll see that he's one of the most open
minded people you'll ever encounter in your life, because all he wish for
us is to live in a united and strong Maghreb where every one will
benefit, including the Berbers.
--
Khalid Lasfar E-mail is---> Cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
fd
Small message for those who see "collaborations" in each fraction of
rationnal ideas : We, algerians, kabyles and non-kabyles, get our
independence because we fought for it. Right ?
I understand that some "others", who get their independence in a less
heroic way want to show their heroic possibilities on Internet.
The best period to that is of course summer : Everybody is on hollidays,
they can shout, cry, do what ever they want, nobody's beeing disturbed.
On the other hand, I'm glad to learn that there are "Shlouha" in
Algeria. Certainly nearby the famous "kabylits" ? When we do know nothing
about a subject, we'd better shut up.
F.
PS : Mes amities aux Shlouhas du Maroc, qui pourraient mal-interpreter.
Et d'ailleurs, s'il y en a qui lisent ce message, je m'etonne de leur
silence quand on raconte des choses fausses sur eux.
Rebecca Romani
For someone who has no idea where Timgad is, Khalid has acquired quite a
bit of knowledge about the Berbers recently. Must have been doing a
little late night reading?
Makhlouf Redjdal
tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
One Kabyle out of many,
-makhlouf
_____________________
In article <4rsj5f$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Khalid Lasfar) writes:
|> .....(deleted)...
|> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
|> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
|> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
|> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
|> the French colonizers.
|> .....(deleted)...
Jomaa Ben-Hassine
makh...@acs3.bu.edu (Makhlouf Redjdal) wrote:
>
>tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
>that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
>independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
>until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
>and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
>
>One Kabyle out of many,
>-makhlouf
Hi Makhlouf,
You're absolutely right. Kabyles are the pride of Algeria and Algerians.
However, the thread was titled "SOME Kabylies are...." and I think that
what Khalid meant is "A small minority of Kabylies" and not "THE small
minority of Kabylies..." I do not think he meant to generalize to ALL
kabylies. Knowing his ideas and the fact that Kabylies are not a small
minority in Algeria, I concluded that what the statement means is not
what he intended to relay. I hope he makes that clarification himself.
As far as describing even a samll minority as such (a shame to Algeria
etc..), I think you can say that about any people or race. No race or
people are perfect.
Jomaa.
Khalid Lasfar
Makhlouf Redjdal (makh...@acs3.bu.edu) writes:
> tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
> that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
> independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
> until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
> and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
>
> One Kabyle out of many,
> -makhlouf
> _____________________
If it's physical threat you talking about in the above lines, you don't move
me. If you consider yourself as one of those from the small minority of
the kabyles who want to control us all, than my message was intended for
you too.
One Arab out of even more many Kabyles.
> In article <4rsj5f$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Khalid Lasfar) writes:
> |> .....(deleted)...
> |> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
> |> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
> |> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
> |> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
> |> the French colonizers.
> |> .....(deleted)...
fd
In article <4s135c$3...@news.bu.edu>, makh...@acs3.bu.edu (Makhlouf Redjdal) writes:
|>
|>tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
|>that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
|>independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
|>until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
|> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
|>and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
|>
|>One Kabyle out of many,
|
Azul a maxluf, azul akw,
D'i la<nayak a maxluf a gma, tixer ad'sg'elfen ama <yan. Asen tefket awal
l<ali isehan : ut fehem'nara. Aten regmet: maci d'kra ! Na<weq akw
amk anedu d'i lexluq ayi !
ar tayed'.
Fares
Khalid Lasfar
Makhlouf Redjdal (makh...@acs3.bu.edu) writes:
> tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
> that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
> independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
> until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
> and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
>
> One Kabyle out of many,
> -makhlouf
> _____________________
Even if you deny it, IMHO you have threaten me with your Kabylite friends
to do me something in this small world.
FYI I live among Berbers, some of them are Kabylites, the extremists ones
like you I always let them know they are on the wrong path because they
are hate manger and also remind them of the treacherous past some of
them, yet no one ever believed I was offensive to the point of threaten me
with physical violence like you did. Kabyles extremists always reacted
the way you do, that is why they are the target of the extremists on the
other side in Algeria.
If you have other things to do, then don't loose you time telling me what
to write and how to do it. If you're trying to to discourage me from
responding to the many lies other kabyle extremists serve us on a daily
basis, it won't work with me because many other Kabyle extremists have
tried without any succes. But as I got to understand the ways of Kabyle
extremists, they are cowards who often hide behind fake e-mail address to
say lies about North Africans and the Arabs in general, lie about them
past and insult anyone who don't agree with them.
> In article <4rsj5f$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>, cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Khalid Lasfar) writes:
> |> .....(deleted)...
> |> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
> |> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
> |> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
> |> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
> |> the French colonizers.
> |> .....(deleted)...
Khalid Lasfar
Jomaa Ben-Hassine (j...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net) writes:
> makh...@acs3.bu.edu (Makhlouf Redjdal) wrote:
>>
>>tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
>>that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
>>independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
>>until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
>> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
>>and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
>>
>>One Kabyle out of many,
>>-makhlouf
>
> Hi Makhlouf,
>
> You're absolutely right. Kabyles are the pride of Algeria and Algerians.
> However, the thread was titled "SOME Kabylies are...." and I think that
> what Khalid meant is "A small minority of Kabylies" and not "THE small
> minority of Kabylies..." I do not think he meant to generalize to ALL
> kabylies.
For your information Jooma, I am not the one who started that thread but
Nasredine (Anonymous). I also happen to agree with him 100%.
Knowing his ideas and the fact that Kabylies are not a small
> minority in Algeria, I concluded that what the statement means is not
> what he intended to relay. I hope he makes that clarification himself.
Please if you do know what my ideas are, let me know because I don't have
a clue of what you talking about. What I wrote is what I mean, IMHO many
Kabyles were collaborators and keep enjoying the fruit of them
collaboration today, because of the lands, the education and the high
positions they got during the colonization.
>
> As far as describing even a samll minority as such (a shame to Algeria
> etc..), I think you can say that about any people or race. No race or
> people are perfect.
> Jomaa.
>
>
>
Aures
Hello Makhlouf:
Don't sound so threatening!!!! It is not good for you. The Kabyles
brought this on themselves. All the facts about them are known and no
need to restate them.
............................AURES....................................
In <4s135c$3...@news.bu.edu> makh...@acs3.bu.edu (Makhlouf Redjdal)
writes:
>
>
>tired of reading your accusations towards the Kabyles. Let it be known
>that the Kabyles had their share of martyrs during Algeria's fight for
>independence. They have fought for justice and will continue to do it
>until Algeria becomes a land of the free.
> Please pay attention to what you are writing. This world is small
>and making ennemies is definitely not the way to go.
>
>One Kabyle out of many,
>-makhlouf
>_____________________
>In article <4rsj5f$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Khalid Lasfar) writes:
>|> .....(deleted)...
>|> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman
and them
>|> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small
minority of
>|> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a
better
>|> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North
Africa,
>|> the French colonizers.
>|> .....(deleted)...
Hsen Larbi
In article <4rsj5f$l...@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Khalid Lasfar) wrote:
I have a few comments to you Berber haters!
> In the States, my friend, only one word could describe Natives;
May I say that there are different kinds of discriminations? Have you
considered that instead of comparing the incomparable?
> discrimination and discrimination. In the States, how many percent of the
> jobs in the government are held by American Natives, in Canada visible
> minorities including the Canadian Natives hold 3% of the federal
> government jobs, despite the fact that visible minorities represent about
> 30% of the Canadian population.
> In Algeria or Morocco, anyone will tell you that's the Kabyles and the
> Shlouha, get the best jobs and own the corner store at the end of every
> street.
So now one cannot own a stopre. What else can you take away from the
Berbers. Just because they know how to do business enough to own a store
(because they were stripped of their lands and ended up in the arid desert
or the unfertiel mountain land). Did it occur to you that most of
Imazighen emigrated elsewehre to earn their living. And now because the
only thing they have is to do business, while some people sit on their ass
doing nothing... you consider them priveleged or having some sort of
prefered status?
Did it occur to you that the Imazighen in the govt. are nothing but people
who are there to serve themselves just like Arabs in the same positions?
[...]
> I will ask you to bring your proof of genocide by the Arabs against
> others, otherwise shut up!
Where ever Islam went there was genocide. As far as I know, and that's
what the arabs themselves taught us in school, arabs came with a sword and
forced Islam on everyone in North Africa. I guess there is no genocide
there?
As far as bringing you proof, you go ... dezz ma<ahum! go get your facts.
I gotr nothing to prove to ignorant people like you!
[...]
> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
> the French colonizers.
I wish the kabyles could control radicals like you! I just wish!
> When I say French colonizers I mean the one who invaded our land and
> degraded our people, and the one who keep getting mixed in our interior
> politics. There are also the French who welcomed with open arms millions
> of our brothers and sisters, the anti-fascist French who fought for the
> freedom of oppressed peoples everywhere, the ones who refused to leave
> France during the colonization to go and oppress other people, the ones
> who became our concubines, and the ones who became our brothers and
> sisters in Islam.
You had to add "islam" to that. As if that what makes all the difference!
Why don't you admit it. Religion rules you!
.....
> What you are wishing Algerians is not peace, it's civil war because you
> are accusing the Arabs of a crime they never committed against the
> Amazighens. You call yourself an outsider, you demonstrated your
> ignorance of North Africa's history. The Berbers (or Amazighens) are no
> ordinary natives or first nations, nor a 'little natives', in the Maghreb
> context, they represent a large portion of the population. If they really
> felt mistreated, they could declared civil war at the time when the French
> colonizer give them full support to do so.
I only the kabyles could decalre you a war....
> Another important thing you should know, the Berbers occupy key position
> in the governments and everywhere else in the maghrebin society. For a
> comparison I challenge you to show me a native American or Canadian in a
> high position or who own a big corporation. Unlike the Canadian natives,
> who can vote only since the sixties, the Berbers in my homeland always
> have them say in the Maghreb's daily life. Indeed in Morocco the Berbers
> never obeyed a government until the late 19th century, it was called 'bled
> siba' the ungovernable land.
You got something wrong with blad siba? Look at it now! Rule by someone
who claims he descends straight from the prophet's family. What an honor
to have a dictator coming directly from the roots of Islam! How lucky we
are in North Africa, we berbers! With all the dictators who made North
Africa part of the middle East, with all our dear Arab brothers! Hey
that's great! What else, just get us a few more Qaddafis and Saddams! Or
maybe another king who descends from Mohamed! That;s just great! and with
all that, since we are moslem and we are good moslems, we are all going to
heaven, right?
> Next time before insulting and mistreating my friend Mr. Ben Yassine,
> please listen to him carefully, you'll see that he's one of the most open
> minded people you'll ever encounter in your life, because all he wish for
> us is to live in a united and strong Maghreb where every one will
> benefit, including the Berbers.
You go dezz ma<ahum with your friend Ben Yassine! This is
soc.culture.berber, let me give you a hint, go try soc.culture.arabic or
soc.culture.middle.east
Maybe they won't insult you! Just give it a shot.
H. Meksa
Hsen Larbi
I have a few comments to you Berber haters!
> In the States, my friend, only one word could describe Natives;
May I say that there are different kinds of discriminations? Have you
considered that instead of comparing the incomparable?
> discrimination and discrimination. In the States, how many percent of the
> jobs in the government are held by American Natives, in Canada visible
> minorities including the Canadian Natives hold 3% of the federal
> government jobs, despite the fact that visible minorities represent about
> 30% of the Canadian population.
> In Algeria or Morocco, anyone will tell you that's the Kabyles and the
> Shlouha, get the best jobs and own the corner store at the end of every
> street.
So now one cannot own a stopre. What else can you take away from the
Berbers. Just because they know how to do business enough to own a store
(because they were stripped of their lands and ended up in the arid desert
or the unfertiel mountain land). Did it occur to you that most of
Imazighen emigrated elsewehre to earn their living. And now because the
only thing they have is to do business, while some people sit on their ass
doing nothing... you consider them priveleged or having some sort of
prefered status?
Did it occur to you that the Imazighen in the govt. are nothing but people
who are there to serve themselves just like Arabs in the same positions?
[...]
> I will ask you to bring your proof of genocide by the Arabs against
> others, otherwise shut up!
Where ever Islam went there was genocide. As far as I know, and that's
what the arabs themselves taught us in school, arabs came with a sword and
forced Islam on everyone in North Africa. I guess there is no genocide
there?
As far as bringing you proof, you go ... dezz ma<ahum! go get your facts.
I gotr nothing to prove to ignorant people like you!
[...]
> Algerian pain was caused by the Colonizer be it French or Ottoman and them
> collaborators, the one you're defending right now, the small minority of
> Kabyles who want to control us on the basis that's they had a better
> education in return for them collaboration with the enemy of North Africa,
> the French colonizers.
I wish the kabyles could control radicals like you! I just wish!
> When I say French colonizers I mean the one who invaded our land and
> degraded our people, and the one who keep getting mixed in our interior
> politics. There are also the French who welcomed with open arms millions
> of our brothers and sisters, the anti-fascist French who fought for the
> freedom of oppressed peoples everywhere, the ones who refused to leave
> France during the colonization to go and oppress other people, the ones
> who became our concubines, and the ones who became our brothers and
> sisters in Islam.
You had to add "islam" to that. As if that what makes all the difference!
Why don't you admit it. Religion rules you!
.....
> What you are wishing Algerians is not peace, it's civil war because you
> are accusing the Arabs of a crime they never committed against the
> Amazighens. You call yourself an outsider, you demonstrated your
> ignorance of North Africa's history. The Berbers (or Amazighens) are no
> ordinary natives or first nations, nor a 'little natives', in the Maghreb
> context, they represent a large portion of the population. If they really
> felt mistreated, they could declared civil war at the time when the French
> colonizer give them full support to do so.
I only the kabyles could decalre you a war....
> Another important thing you should know, the Berbers occupy key position
> in the governments and everywhere else in the maghrebin society. For a
> comparison I challenge you to show me a native American or Canadian in a
> high position or who own a big corporation. Unlike the Canadian natives,
> who can vote only since the sixties, the Berbers in my homeland always
> have them say in the Maghreb's daily life. Indeed in Morocco the Berbers
> never obeyed a government until the late 19th century, it was called 'bled
> siba' the ungovernable land.
You got something wrong with blad siba? Look at it now! Ruled by someone
who claims he descends straight from the prophet's family. What an honor
to have a dictator coming directly from the roots of Islam! How lucky we
are in North Africa, we berbers! With all the dictators who made North
Africa part of the middle East, with all our dear Arab brothers! Hey
that's great! What else, just get us a few more Qaddafis and Saddams! Or
maybe another king who descends from Mohamed! That;s just great! and with
all that, since we are moslem and we are good moslems, we are all going to
heaven, right?
> Next time before insulting and mistreating my friend Mr. Ben Yassine,
> please listen to him carefully, you'll see that he's one of the most open
> minded people you'll ever encounter in your life, because all he wish for
> us is to live in a united and strong Maghreb where every one will
> benefit, including the Berbers.
You go dezz ma<ahum with your friend Ben Yassine! This is
soc.culture.berber, let me give you a hint, go try soc.culture.arabic or
soc.culture.middle.east
Maybe they won't insult you! Just give it a shot.
H. Meksa
> Khalid Lasfar E-mail is---> Cu...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA