SUMAN CHATTERJEE-CALCUTTA'S PRIDE???
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <GUP...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> I arrived in US about four months back. About
>two to three weeks before I left Calcutta Suman
>Chatterjee became involved in an incident which may
>not be fit enough in keeping with the `bhadro biplobi
>bangali' image that he spreads (or some quarters of the
>media helps him in spreading).
Could you please mention the names of some of the media
that help him "spread his image" ? I lived in Calcutta
for the entire duration of 1994, and I noticed that the
print media was uniformly hostile to him.
>The reporter had to
>leave the theater with his wife and young daughter. The
>latter was reported to be crying when all this was going
>on. Oh! What a great singer , and what an encouraging fan
>following!!!
Sudipto Chatterjee, a film-maker based in New York, who sometimes
participates in soc.culture.bengali, is making a documentary on
Suman Chatopadhyay. (I am cc:ing Sudipto a copy of this posting
and asking him to post a rejoinder if possible). Sudipto had
a telephone conversation with Suman in which Suman denied having
abused this Aajkaal reporter. I am curious to know if you were
present during the incident yourself, or if you are posting a
second-hand account.
> Actually Suman Chatterjee, in plain and simple
>bengali, is a `shubidhabaj'. This was noted from the
>very beginning of his career. He efficiently used the
>CPI(M) platform to promote himself and later to keep
>up his image of `biplobi' started criticising (read abusing)
>them.
Can you please tell me when and where Suman was associated with
the CPI(M) platform? Please be specific.
>In another
>performance on hearing a request for a song from a young
>girl who addressed him as `uncle' he abused her parents
>for not teaching her to say `kaku'. Great!
I probably would have done the same.
>increase the list since there is almost no end to it. Just
>a bit of addition to the reporter incident. Biplob Chattopadhyay,
>the noted Bengali film actor, had protested against the incident
> involving the Aajkal reporter. He started receiving abusive telephone
>calls which were later detected by the Police to be made
>from Sumon Chatterjee's personal phone.
I have live audio footage from a concert just after this "incident"
in which Suman presented his side of the story. He says that he
never made any such calls and claims that this was a pre-planned political
victimization campaign to malign him. It is the police's word against
Suman's. No evidence was ever presented by the police in an open trial.
Why isn't Biplob Chattopadhyay suing Suman for the phone calls? I believe
in the principle of believing someone innocent until __proven__ guilty.
>p.s Forgot to mention about the `no Rabindranath, yes Rabindranath'
>incedent. I hope the readers are aware of that.
I don't know of this incident. What is it?
-Sayan.
Ranjan Maitra
decent or appropriate of him to take up the stage to abuse his critic from
Anandabazar Patrika (I forget his name) on a day (and that too, with his back
turned to the audience) as revered to Bengalis as ponchishe boishakh (Tagore's
birthday) and at a function to commemorate Rabindranath!
Also, what sort of artiste is someone who can't take criticism of his
abilities? Surely not one to match the greats which Bengal abounds in - a
minnow wanting to be a titan!
Regards,
Ranjan
Sambit Basu
>I can bet any stake if
>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB group.
Koto taka phelchhen?
kichhu phNaka taka pete agrohi,
Sambit
Samarjit Mitter
Bose ) writes:
>Sayan was right , This is epistemic violence on part of the parents of
>the kid. If no one is at least sarcastic to the cultural boot-licking
>then what is the point. A kid is today a kid , but one must point it
to
>the kid that the parents are leading herself to be a "dalal". Any
>self-esteemed political and cultural person should have reacted much
>more fiercely than Suman. What kind of attitude is that "Aha baba ma
ke
>kichu bola jabe na " "tara pobitro".These craps are the ones against
>which Suman is fighting.
Are you saying that the bane of Bengali culture is due to parents who
teach their children to respectfully address an elder as 'Uncle'
instead of 'Kaku'?? I had no idea who the hell Suman Chatterji was
till this thread in the newsgroup. But if "These craps are the ones
against which Suman is fighting " (nice language by the way), then he
is as ignorant as you.
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <GUP...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>First of all, I must make one point clear. It is not possible
>for me to keep a `specific' account (I hope Mr. Bhattacharya
>refers to exact dates and locations) of every public activity
>of Suman Chatterjee. I hope he will agree that to keep a
>relatively careful account of what's happening around one needs
>to go through few of the daily newspapers.
This is wonderful. So all of your litany of stories about Suman
is either anecdotal evidence or culled from mass-circulation
newspapers. I cannot believe that you are so naive as to imagine
that reading newspapers gives you an unbiased picture. Newspapers
run on advertisements, and they need to keep the advertisers happy.
Their editorial policy usually reflects this. Suman has always taken
a strong, courageous and independent stance against big moneyed
interests (recall that he did concerts to raise money for the Kanoria
Jute Mill workers). So it is not a surprise at all that big newspapers,
which depend on funding from the moneyed interests for support, will
attack him.
>
>Regarding media, I can just say that it is sad if all those
>eulogies and praises (in fact Aajkaal was in the forefront)
>towards Suman has missed Mr. Bhattacharya's attention. If I
>remember correctly the `hostility', if it really can be called
>so, started in 1995 after all these incidents.
Two points:
(1) It is strange that you mention Aajkal's "adulation" of Suman
and at the same time you mention an incident which purportedly
originated from an Aajkaal reporter's criticism of Suman!
(2) About "hostility started in 1995" : I clearly remember reading
a full-page article lampooning Suman (and with a cartoon portrait
of him) attacking him in the Sunday edition of Anandabajar Patrika
in October/November 1994. The hostility started earlier.
>Suman did use the CPI(M) platform. He sang in CPI(M) election
>meetings. I am sorry I cannot give the date, location and
>time when he appeared on the stage, but if one goes through
>the articles published on Suman in Calcutta (specifically
>I will mention one that appeared in one of the special
>Saturday pages of Anandabazaar, some time in the beginning
>of this year, called GAANHIN GAANWALA) one can find reference
>to those.
Frankly, I take reports appearing in Anandabajar with more than a
pinch of salt. That paper has little credibility.
>
>Regarding the reporter incidence, I do not really know what
>to reply. Yes, I was not present during the incedent. Yes, I
>read it from the newspapers (remember Statesman, Telegraph,
>AnandaBazaar, Bartaman, ...and of course Aajkaal). And oh yes!
>I am sorry if all these newspapers (who are uniformly hostile
>to Suman) lied which lead me to know about this not to good
>side of Mr. Suman Chatterjee. And also I am sorry if the police
>department is so corrupted so as to ask the telecom department,
>who are also so corruped and so much against Suman so as to
>falsely detect the abusive calls to the latter's personal
>number.
The incident happened like this : Suman was summoned by telephone
to Lalbazar for an "enquiry". When he went there, he was told that
"You have made these phone calls!". He was not even told who the
supposed calls had been made to. BUT -- here is the clincher --
as he was leaving the police station he saw photographers of the
newspapers standing outside who snapped his photo as he walked out.
Who informed the newspapers that Suman was being called to Lalbazar
for an enquiry? Does this not suggest that there was a collusion
between the police and the newspapers to character-assassinate
Suman Chatterjee?
And Suman's denial? I would also have done the same.!!!
Well, if it's Suman's word against the police's, then given the
reputation of Calcutta police (recall that this is the same Calcutta
police which has been guilty of numerous atrocities such as the
brutality on Archana Neogy, death of Idris in police custody, and
countless others), I would rather believe Suman than believe Calcutta
police.
>Lastly coming to the Rabindranath incident, I hope you will remember
>the interviews that Suman gave initially. On being asked why he
>had quit singing Rabindrasangeet he replied something to the
>effect that he found the lyrics and tune not bold enough to
>express his feelings about `current day realities'. He even tried
>to prove his point by citing examples from Tagore and pointing to
>their `bhashagato durbolota'. As expected the Bengalis sprang to
>the defence of their `Gurudeb'. Suman facing this and also some other related
>problems (the sale of his cassettes were falling-this is not my
>view, for verifying I refer you to HMV sources) performed a
>unique volte-face. He even came out with a cassette of some
>popular Rabindrasangeets-yes, from the same old HMV. I cannot
>resist the temptation of quoting a certain reporter -"I
>wonder what has changed, present day reality, or Suman's
>perception of it?"
Again, I don't see why this is a big deal. Every creative artist keeps
changing and developing. He has every right to change his mind about
Rabindranath. Changing one's mind is not necessarily synonymous with
double standards!
-Sayan.
Bhaskar DasGupta
>Soumitra Bose writes
........
>>>BULLSHIT , HORSESHIT .....You have no idea who Suman is ...let alone
>>>his history . You have no clue as to what his roots are and why (even
>>>if wanted) Suman could never have become CPM. Please when you have
>>>something to say be sure of the content. You have pretty little idea
>>>about the brawl with him and Anandabazar Group.Ican bet any stake if
>>>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB group.
.........
> And I am amazed at your language Soumitra-babu. BULLSHIT!!!!
>HORSESHIT!!!!! From somebody who wouldn't like Bengali children to call their
>"kaku" uncle ???
> Regards
> Srabani Banerjee
Saratchandra Chattopadhyay once said about some trends in modern literature
and culture, "khub korbo, besh korbo, gorjan kore nongra katha-i bolbo,
etai hochhe kichhu adhunik sahityer mulmontro".
Reading various posts of our extremely respected knowledgeable Soumitra-babu,
I have to agree that Saratchandra was right. I just hope that Suman
Chatterjee also does not fall in the same group.
Regards,
Bhaskar
Srabani Banerjee
>In article <4d6o26$4...@nntp5.u.washington.edu>,
>Ranjan Maitra <mai...@oscar.stat.washington.edu> wrote:
>>Whatever Mr. Chatterjee's inflated sense of self-worth, it was hardly right,
>>decent or appropriate of him to take up the stage to abuse his critic from
>>Anandabazar Patrika (I forget his name) on a day (and that too, with his back
>>turned to the audience) as revered to Bengalis as ponchishe boishakh (Tagore's
>>birthday) and at a function to commemorate Rabindranath!
>A few comments:
>(1) On "taking up the stage" to air protest : Suman has publicly stated that,
> being a public performer, he prefers the public arena of the performing
> space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known, rather than
> express this dissent through the more private space of the printed page.
> I don't see anything wrong with this.
It would have been helpful if you could specified the nature of the `protest'.
Suppose I have a personal grudge against you. And I prefer the public arena of
the performing space, namely this newsgroup, to make my dissent known, rather
than express this dissent through the more private space of an e-mail. And
additionally, I do this in a manner which is generally considered to be
indecent. Do you see anything wrong with this?
>(3) I don't see why such hullabaloo is being raised because Suman supposedly
took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently some
Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe boishakh
we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" ! Tagore
himself would have disliked such an idea intensely. I don't see anything
wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after all
Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir", of
which Suman is a living embodiment.
Do you object to people expressing "reverence" to a person whose birth
anniversary is being celebrated? Or do you object to the concept of
celebrating a person's birth anniversary?
As for `holy cows', Sayanbabu, we all have them, don't we? For someone,
it is Rabindranath, for someone else it is Suman, right?
Regards
Srabani
sayan bhattacharyya
Sambarta <srak...@ecs.umass.edu> wrote:
>
> it was clearly established that the calls were
>made from Suman's home phone and Suman admitted later to the police that he
>did indeed make those phone calls.
I have an audio recording of Suman's Kala Mandir concert (August 1995)
in which he denies making the calls. I am curious to know what is the
date of this supposed "confession" to the police.
>Do you have any evidence that Biplab Chattopadhyay was linked to any political
>group ? If not, how can you believe (as apparently you do) that he would
>allow himself to be used as a tool in a victimization campaign ?
Biplab C. may not have allowed himself to be used. It is quite possible that
someone did make abusive phone calls to him, and he complained to the police
and then the police and/or government used this opportunity to scapegoat
Suman.
> Just like to mention that another distasteful thing about Suman Chattopadhyay
>is his habit of drinking openly on stage. If someone insists on giving
>lessons to kids (referring to the kaku incident) this would hardly be the
>example he is expected to set.
I have attended at least five live concerts by Suman Chatterjee. He did
drink water during the performance, as most singers would if they had to
give a performance continuously for three hours. Of course I did not peer
into his glass to see if it was water or alcohol. Even if it was alcohol
(which I doubt, but you seem to think it is), that is his personal matter,
and he certainly didn't appear drunk or intoxicated. So I am not sure
how the "setting an example" issue arises here.
-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
Ranjan Maitra <mai...@oscar.stat.washington.edu> wrote:
>Whatever Mr. Chatterjee's inflated sense of self-worth, it was hardly right,
>decent or appropriate of him to take up the stage to abuse his critic from
>Anandabazar Patrika (I forget his name) on a day (and that too, with his back
>turned to the audience) as revered to Bengalis as ponchishe boishakh (Tagore's
>birthday) and at a function to commemorate Rabindranath!
A few comments:
(1) On "taking up the stage" to air protest : Suman has publicly stated that,
being a public performer, he prefers the public arena of the performing
space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known, rather than
express this dissent through the more private space of the printed page.
I don't see anything wrong with this.
(2) In a previous post someone mentioned that the "critic" was from Aaajkal.
Now Mr. Maitra says that he was from Anandabajar. This is very strange.
It seems that, as far as maligning Suman is concerned, anything goes, and
not even the pretence of checking or verifying facts is necessary!
(3) I don't see why such hullabaloo is being raised because Suman supposedly
took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently some
Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe boishakh
we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" ! Tagore
himself would have disliked such an idea intensely. I don't see anything
wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after all
Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir", of
which Suman is a living embodiment.
(4) I wonder how many of the people posting on this thread have actually
physically attended a live Suman concert. I have attended quite a few,
and he has always come across to me as an artiste with good taste
and humility. Yes, he expresses anger against injustice, and does it
on stge without any apologies. I admire him for doing so.
-Sayan.
Indranil DasGupta
: BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Srabani Banerjee) writes:
: >Soumitra Bose writes
: ........
: .........
: Regards,
: Bhaskar
Soumitra-babu ki deshe phire (biplob korar shomoy) eishob ingriji slang
chalaben? Tahole jombe bhalo kintu. Swadeshi `shala, banchot'er shathe
`Horse shit-bullshit' blend kore ja cocktail hobe, bhebei lom khara hoye
jachchhe.
Apratim-er moto markini white collar-ra jokhon deshe phire feudalism
chalabe, tokhon tader shathe lorai korte erokom mojbut bhashar-i
proyojon hobe. Apni thik track-e achhen soumitra-babu.
Poshto deyal likhon dekhte pachchhi:
Bullet-er din noy odyo, bullshit tule nao comrade.
Indranil.
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4d710d$9...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> In article <4d6kip$k...@risky.ecs.umass.edu>, Sambarta <srak...@ecs.umass.edu> wrote:
>> it was clearly established that the calls were
>> made from Suman's home phone and Suman admitted later to the police that he
>> did indeed make those phone calls.
SB> I have an audio recording of Suman's Kala Mandir concert (August 1995)
SB> in which he denies making the calls. I am curious to know what is the
SB> date of this supposed "confession" to the police.
Yeah right! Someone else made those calls in the middle of the night
from Suman's bedroom! The only possible explanation would be that
Suman's wife was sleeping with someone, who made those calls.
[As far as I know police reports confirmed that the calls came from
Suman's bedroom phone number in the middle of the night.]
>> Just like to mention that another distasteful thing about Suman Chattopadhyay
>> is his habit of drinking openly on stage. If someone insists on giving
>> lessons to kids (referring to the kaku incident) this would hardly be the
>> example he is expected to set.
SB> I have attended at least five live concerts by Suman Chatterjee. He did
SB> drink water during the performance, as most singers would if they had to
SB> give a performance continuously for three hours. Of course I did not peer
SB> into his glass to see if it was water or alcohol. Even if it was alcohol
SB> (which I doubt, but you seem to think it is), that is his personal matter,
SB> and he certainly didn't appear drunk or intoxicated. So I am not sure
SB> how the "setting an example" issue arises here.
There are plenty of singers who drink before performing. Personally,
I have seen Bhupen Hazarika doing this on the Houston stage. My
father was impressed the way Ali Akbar Khan played the Sarod at the
Calcutta University stage after getting totally drunk. [My father had
escorted Ali Akbar to the stage, so he knew this.]
But make no mistake. I wouldn't dare compare Suman with Ali Akbar.
-Shubu
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
sh...@cs.wisc.edu http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~shubu
Apratim Sarkar
>This is wonderful. So all of your litany of stories about Suman
>is either anecdotal evidence or culled from mass-circulation
>newspapers. I cannot believe that you are so naive as to imagine
>that reading newspapers gives you an unbiased picture. Newspapers
>run on advertisements, and they need to keep the advertisers happy.
>Their editorial policy usually reflects this. Suman has always taken
>a strong, courageous and independent stance against big moneyed
>interests (recall that he did concerts to raise money for the Kanoria
>Jute Mill workers). So it is not a surprise at all that big newspapers,
>which depend on funding from the moneyed interests for support, will
>attack him.
So, what (other than Suman's own statements - BTW Sayan I cannot
believe that you are so naive as to imagine that listening to only
the parties involved in a dispute gives you the complete unbiased
picture) would you consider to be a source of unbiased information?
(Dekhi jodi tate Suman'ke kichhu bhul-bhal bala hoye thake - na,
Suman'r pechhone laga'r amar kono ichchhe nei, ektu Sayan'r pechhone
lgbo bhabchhilam.)
>The incident happened like this : Suman was summoned by telephone
>to Lalbazar for an "enquiry". When he went there, he was told that
>"You have made these phone calls!". He was not even told who the
>supposed calls had been made to. BUT -- here is the clincher --
>as he was leaving the police station he saw photographers of the
>newspapers standing outside who snapped his photo as he walked out.
>Who informed the newspapers that Suman was being called to Lalbazar
>for an enquiry? Does this not suggest that there was a collusion
>between the police and the newspapers to character-assassinate
>Suman Chatterjee?
What is your source and how are you sure that _that_ is
unbiased, not Arnabbabu's?
>Well, if it's Suman's word against the police's, then given the
Also, don't forget to throw in a half-dozen newspapers in the
bargain. Newspapers which are not particularly biased in favor
of the CP, or so it seems from their coverage.
>reputation of Calcutta police (recall that this is the same Calcutta
>police which has been guilty of numerous atrocities such as the
>brutality on Archana Neogy, death of Idris in police custody, and
>countless others), I would rather believe Suman than believe Calcutta
>police.
>
>Again, I don't see why this is a big deal. Every creative artist keeps
>changing and developing. He has every right to change his mind about
>Rabindranath. Changing one's mind is not necessarily synonymous with
>double standards!
Besides, it is nowhere written on stone that one has to practise
what one preaches. The question, if you haven't really got it Sayan,
was not one of rights. I am surprised to see that finally you of
all people are falling back to rights-front. I will duely remind
you of this statement of yours next time an issue of basic principle
comes up in a socio-political debate - about what is and what isn't
a big deal.
>-Sayan.
Apratim.
--
No doubt the world is entirely an Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
imaginary world, but it is only once are my own and shouldn't be construed in
removed from the true world. any way to represent that of my employer.
- Issac Bashevis Singer.
Arnab Gupta
In one of his articles Mr. Sayan Bhattacharya writes:
>>Biplab C. may not have allowed himself to be used. It is quite possible that
>>someone did make abusive phone calls to him, and he complained to the police
>>and then the police and/or government used this opportunity to scapegoat
>>Suman.
I refer readers to a previous article of Mr. Bhattacharya in which he writes
"I believe in the principle of believing someone innocent until __proven
__guilty". I wonder why most of his articles in defence of Suman assumes
so much of `this might have happened'.
In another article he writes:
>>A few comments:
>>(1) On "taking up the stage" to air protest : Suman has publicly stated that,
>> being a public performer, he prefers the public arena of the performing
>> space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known, rather than
>> express this dissent through the more private space of the printed page.
>> I don't see anything wrong with this.
Excellent!! I have no more argument against this. One who can take such a
liberty can also "show" whatever he likes. Indeed, if one has not got
anything logical to say, the best thing is to get things done physically.
The "Sangh Parivar" also did that in breaking down the mosque. Nothing
wrong in it. This is human nature you know!!!
>>(2) In a previous post someone mentioned that the "critic" was from Aaajkal.
>> Now Mr. Maitra says that he was from Anandabajar. This is very strange.
>> It seems that, as far as maligning Suman is concerned, anything goes, and
>> not even the pretence of checking or verifying facts is necessary!
A simple mistake in quoting the name of the newspaper Mr. Bhattacharya. I
did not expect you to try exploit this in proving your point. Ask the
filmmaker who made that film, it was the Aajkaal reporter.
>>(3) I don't see why such hullabaloo is being raised because Suman supposedly
>> took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently some
>> Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe boishakh
>> we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" ! Tagore
>> himself would have disliked such an idea intensely. I don't see anything
>> wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after all
>> Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir", of
>> which Suman is a living embodiment.
I do admit Tagore "would have" disliked the idea of "setting up holy cows"
and "speak(ing) in hushed tones", but I am not sure whether he would have
enjoyed a free-for-all display of one's `pashchatdesh' on his birthday. I wonder
whether Mr. Bhattacharya is sure of that.
>>(4) I wonder how many of the people posting on this thread have actually
>> physically attended a live Suman concert. I have attended quite a few,
>> and he has always come across to me as an artiste with good taste
>> and humility. Yes, he expresses anger against injustice, and does it
>> on stge without any apologies. I admire him for doing so.
>>-Sayan.
Does not prove anything!!!
Oh yes!! I forgot to ask a question. Anandabazaar does represent big money
interests. I wonder what revolutionary interest the GOENKA's represent.
After all they bring out the cassettes of this living embodiment of
"CHITTO JETHA BHOISHUNYO" under the banner of H M V music company. Mr.
Bhattacharya, please do reply. I am really ignorant about this revolutionary
singer stuff.
Thanks
Arnab
ARNAB GUPTA
DEPT. OF MATERIAL SCIENCE AND ENGG.
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY.
Apratim Sarkar
>BULLSHIT , HORSESHIT .....You have no idea who Suman is ...let alone
>his history . You have no clue as to what his roots are and why (even
>if wanted) Suman could never have become CPM.
Dekho bhai, antoto tinjan bolechhe Suman'r atmojibani'te naki bala
achhe je Suman CPM'r stage'e geyechhe. Ekhon, dhopachchhe ke?
Tumi, na Suman? (Ami boi-ta'r copy jogaR'r chestai achhe - quotation
post korbo.)
>Please when you have
>something to say be sure of the content. You have pretty little idea
>about the brawl with him and Anandabazar
Arnabbabu'r mon'r katha tumi janle ki kore balo dekhi!? Mairi, tomra
antorjami hoye jachchho naki?
>Group.Ican bet any stake if
>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB group.
Tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe? Ami ekta dime e-i tabil'e rakhlam.
Abashyo jodi tumi balo je Suman etoi kharap gai je CPM'r statge'e
na gaile tabei o CPM'r upakar korto, tabe alada katha.
>Sayan was right , This is epistemic violence on part of the parents of
>the kid.
Bangla-i bhujhiye balo ki bolte chaichho.
>If no one is at least sarcastic to the cultural boot-licking
>then what is the point.
Of what?
>A kid is today a kid , but one must point it to
>the kid that the parents are leading herself to be a "dalal".
Horseshit'r bangla ki balo to Soumitra?
>Any
>self-esteemed political and cultural person should have reacted much
>more fiercely than Suman.
Where does Soumitra get _these_ biblical revealations from? Sayan,
any idea (mane tumi Soumitra'r lekhapatro'r manetane Sambit'ke besh
pranjol kore bujhiye dichchhile kina, tai bhablam)?
>What kind of attitude is that "Aha baba ma ke
>kichu bola jabe na " "tara pobitro".These craps are the ones against
>which Suman is fighting.
Suman tabe gan gaowa chheRe diyechhe? Eta ekta kaj'r kaj korechhe!
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <GUP...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>In one of his articles Mr. Sayan Bhattacharya writes:
>
>>>Biplab C. may not have allowed himself to be used. It is quite possible that
>>>someone did make abusive phone calls to him, and he complained to the police
>>>and then the police and/or government used this opportunity to scapegoat
>>>Suman.
>
>I refer readers to a previous article of Mr. Bhattacharya in which he writes
>"I believe in the principle of believing someone innocent until __proven
>__guilty". I wonder why most of his articles in defence of Suman assumes
>so much of `this might have happened'.
>
It is precisely __because__ I believe in presuming someone innocent until
proven guilty, that I wrote the paragraph quoted above. So far, all we have
seen are allegations by the police against Suman. Nothing has been proven in
a court of law. No fair trial has been held. No court case has been instituted.
Suman has not been given a chance to clear his name or to defend his side of
the story in court.
Because there are many alternatives scenarios that explain what might have
happened, this is precisely the reason why I would continue to presume Suman
innocent until he is proven guilty. The onus is not on Suman to prove his
inocence. The onus is on those accusing him to prove him guilty. And I
will only consider something as "proof" if it is presented in a fair and open
trial, not in a kangaroo court.
>>>(1) On "taking up the stage" to air protest : Suman has publicly stated that,
>>> being a public performer, he prefers the public arena of the performing
>>> space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known, rather
>>> than
>>> express this dissent through the more private space of the printed page.
>>> I don't see anything wrong with this.
>
>Excellent!! I have no more argument against this. One who can take such a
>liberty can also "show" whatever he likes. Indeed, if one has not got
>anything logical to say, the best thing is to get things done physically.
>The "Sangh Parivar" also did that in breaking down the mosque. Nothing
>wrong in it. This is human nature you know!!!
>
I don't see the relevance of this association. By breaking the mosque the
fundamentalists were breaking the law of the land. If you think that by
turning his back to the audience Suman was breaking any laws, fine : file
an FIR against him and prosecute him. If he did break any obscenity laws
in the Indian penal code, why isn't the police arresting him?
>I do admit Tagore "would have" disliked the idea of "setting up holy cows"
>and "speak(ing) in hushed tones", but I am not sure whether he would have
>enjoyed a free-for-all display of one's `pashchatdesh' on his birthday.
>I wonder
>whether Mr. Bhattacharya is sure of that.
Frankly, I don't see why this is a big deal. Apparently this critic was
in the audience and Suman said (I'm paraphrasing): "Apni to amar pechchone
lagchhen, to ei ami apnar dike pechhon phire dNaralam." Then he stood on stage
with his back to the audience for a couple of seconds. As simple as that.
I don't see why netters are exploding in paroxysms of pishima-marka prudery
at such a simple incident.
If you read "Tasher Desh", you will see that Tagore was always on the side
of iconoclasts who challenged useless tradition. Recall also that charges of
"indecency" were levelled at the "Kallol" writers like Buddhadeb Bose and
Premen Mitra, Tagore took their side against that of the establishment. That
is why I feel that had Tagore been alive, he would have been on the side of
Suman and not on the side of the big newspapers.
>Oh yes!! I forgot to ask a question. Anandabazaar does represent big money
>interests. I wonder what revolutionary interest the GOENKA's represent.
>After all they bring out the cassettes of this living embodiment of
>"CHITTO JETHA BHOISHUNYO" under the banner of H M V music company. Mr.
>Bhattacharya, please do reply. I am really ignorant about this revolutionary
>singer stuff.
Well, Suman has never made any secret of the fact that his music is a means of
earning a living to him. This is the way he supports himself, his wife and
kids. He is quite aware of this contradiction himself. If you read his songs
you will find that he has described himself as "bharaTiya gayok suman"
(hired singer Suman) and has said "taderi gayie ami sajano jolsay" (I am
a singer hired by the establishment in set-up concerts). He is attacking
and destabilising the establishment from within, not from the outside. Sometimes
this is a more effective way of subverting the establishment.
-Sayan.
Arnab Gupta
>>It is precisely __because__ I believe in presuming someone innocent until
>>proven guilty, that I wrote the paragraph quoted above. So far, all we have
>>seen are allegations by the police against Suman. Nothing has been proven in
>>a court of law. No fair trial has been held. No court case has been instituted.
>>Suman has not been given a chance to clear his name or to defend his side of
>>the story in court.
>>Because there are many alternatives scenarios that explain what might have
>>happened, this is precisely the reason why I would continue to presume Suman
>>innocent until he is proven guilty. The onus is not on Suman to prove his
>>inocence. The onus is on those accusing him to prove him guilty. And I
>>will only consider something as "proof" if it is presented in a fair and open
>>trial, not in a kangaroo court.
Errr... just a minute. Has not the police accused him of something. Biplob
Chatterjee did not file a case in a kangaroo court, I admit. But the police
did. Suman, the epitome of social justice, could have filed a case of
defamation. This is the best option that comes to any sane mind. No he
did not do that. Instead he abused some people as a form of protest. After
all the court is a kangaroo court. I wonder what form of social justice
will exist if people had the right to accept or reject government
institutions as it suits them. Will Mr. Bhattacharya support rejection
of all government institutions ( of which we are beneficiaries) to close
down because a part of it is corrupted!
>>I don't see the relevance of this association. By breaking the mosque the
>>fundamentalists were breaking the law of the land. If you think that by
>>turning his back to the audience Suman was breaking any laws, fine : file
>>an FIR against him and prosecute him. If he did break any obscenity laws
>>in the Indian penal code, why isn't the police arresting him?
"Law of the land"!!! You beleive in something like that? I understood all
laws are `kangaroo' laws to you! Anyway, Suman did break something called
civility in plain English and bhadrota in plain bengali. Of course you
may support this. Since from your reply to Srabani's article it seems
that bringing out a personal grudge against someone on public stage is
highly supportable.
>>Frankly, I don't see why this is a big deal. Apparently this critic was
>>in the audience and Suman said (I'm paraphrasing): "Apni to amar pechchone
>>lagchhen, to ei ami apnar dike pechhon phire dNaralam." Then he stood on stage
>>with his back to the audience for a couple of seconds. As simple as that.
>>I don't see why netters are exploding in paroxysms of pishima-marka prudery
>>at such a simple incident.
I hope, if this minimum civility of maintaining decency on stage is "pishima
marka prudery" then the pishimas remain for ever with their prudery.
>>If you read "Tasher Desh", you will see that Tagore was always on the side
>>of iconoclasts who challenged useless tradition. Recall also that charges of
>>"indecency" were levelled at the "Kallol" writers like Buddhadeb Bose and
>>Premen Mitra, Tagore took their side against that of the establishment. That
>>is why I feel that had Tagore been alive, he would have been on the side of
>>Suman and not on the side of the big newspapers.
What is useless tradition -not abusing on stage? Please do not bring in the
Kallol writers. The question is totally different. In their case it was
whether sex is allowable as a subject openly in literature (broadly).
In this case it is whether a performer should maintain civility or not.I
have never heard of Kallol writers abusing their opponents. Yes, not
even when "Shanibarer Chithhi" was trying its best to make them do so.
>>Well, Suman has never made any secret of the fact that his music is a means of
>>earning a living to him. This is the way he supports himself, his wife and
>>kids. He is quite aware of this contradiction himself. If you read his songs
>>you will find that he has described himself as "bharaTiya gayok suman"
>>(hired singer Suman) and has said "taderi gayie ami sajano jolsay" (I am
>>a singer hired by the establishment in set-up concerts). He is attacking
>>and destabilising the establishment from within, not from the outside. Sometimes
>>this is a more effective way of subverting the establishment.
>>-Sayan.
So that justifies everything!!! One can take as much one likes of a
system and then accuse (or abuse) it. Oh, now I understand everthing.
Goenka is a supporter of revolution while Anandabazaar is against it-that
is from Suman Chatterjee reference frame. In some case it may be just the
oppsite. Pretty confusing stuff, this revolution, seems I have to learn
relativity to understand it. Otherwise I may fall into the trap of
misjudging it once again as `hypocrisy'.
Thanks
Arnab
Srabani Banerjee
>In article <4d96iq$3...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>Suppose I have a personal grudge against you. And I prefer the public arena of
>>the performing space, namely this newsgroup, to make my dissent known, rather
>>than express this dissent through the more private space of an e-mail.
>So far, I do not see anything wrong with this.
>>And
>>additionally, I do this in a manner which is generally considered to be
>>indecent. Do you see anything wrong with this?
>I don't see anything wrong with this, provided the dissent is not dishonest
>(i.e. no false claims or character assassination is being done). As for
>decency, everyone has their own standards. I won't impose my standard of
>decency on someone else -- that would be censorship.
You won't impose your standard of decency on someone else because that is
censorship. But you don't find anything wrong when people try to set other
standards on people, e.g., whether parents should teach their children to
say `kaku' instead of `uncle'. In fact you actually support this. Do you really
understand or believe what you are saying?
>This is precisely what is
>happening, some people are now trying to censor and silence Suman. This is
>a common fate of dissident singers like Suman. The same thing happened to
>Pete Seeger (he was blacklisted for being a member of the U.S. communist
>party), Woody Guthrie (blacklisted for the same reason), Wolf Biermann
>(censored because of his opposition to the East German dictatorship of
>Honecker).
Sayanbabu, why bring in the government and establishment into this. I know
of quite a number of people who used to be die-hard Suman fans who have now
turned away from his antics in disgust. And, believe me, they are the common
people, without political affiliations. Now before you jump at that, by
`political affiliations', I mean support for any of the political parties
in West Bengal (or India).
>> Do you object to people expressing "reverence" to a person whose birth
>>anniversary is being celebrated?
>No, but I object to the so-called reverence being taken to a ridiculous
>extreme.
When you say `ridiculous extreme' aren't you imposing your own standard?
>>Or do you object to the concept of
>>celebrating a person's birth anniversary?
>I do not object to it, although I think it is rather hypocritical to pay lip
>service to the ideals of a man for only one day of the year and forget
>him for the remaining 364 days.
O.K., so do I. But how do you know that people who object to Suman's antics
(forgive me Sayanbabu, but I have no other word for what he did) forget
Rabindranath for the rest of the year?
> As for `holy cows', Sayanbabu, we all have them, don't we? For someone,
>it is Rabindranath, for someone else it is Suman, right?
>Presumably you are hinting that I am an uncritical adulator of
>Suman. Note however that none of my arguments have been based on
>"adulation" -- I have tried to provide logical reasoning to substantiate
>each of my arguments. The word "holy cow" on the other hand is associated
>with blind faith and not with reason.
>-Sayan.
You presume rightly, Sayanbabu. Convince me that your support of Suman
lashing out at parenta vis-a-vis your refusal to set standards of decency on
people is not an example of `uncritical adulation', and I will happily
withdraw what I've said.
Regards
Srabani
Soumitra Bose
(sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>In article <4d6o26$4...@nntp5.u.washington.edu>,
>Ranjan Maitra <mai...@oscar.stat.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>>Whatever Mr. Chatterjee's inflated sense of self-worth, it was hardly
right,
>>decent or appropriate of him to take up the stage to abuse his critic
from
>>Anandabazar Patrika (I forget his name) on a day (and that too, with
his back
>>turned to the audience) as revered to Bengalis as ponchishe boishakh
(Tagore's
>>birthday) and at a function to commemorate Rabindranath!
>
>A few comments:
>
stated that,
performing
> space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known,
rather than
> express this dissent through the more private space of the printed
page.
> I don't see anything wrong with this.
>
>(2) In a previous post someone mentioned that the "critic" was from
Aaajkal.
> Now Mr. Maitra says that he was from Anandabajar. This is very
strange.
> It seems that, as far as maligning Suman is concerned, anything
goes, and
> not even the pretence of checking or verifying facts is necessary!
>
supposedly
> took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently
some
> Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe
boishakh
> we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" !
Tagore
anything
> wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after
all
> Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir",
of
> which Suman is a living embodiment.
>
actually
> physically attended a live Suman concert. I have attended quite a
few,
> and he has always come across to me as an artiste with good taste
> and humility. Yes, he expresses anger against injustice, and does
it
> on stge without any apologies. I admire him for doing so.
>
>-Sayan.
>
>
>
is anti-civil, pretty obnoxious then why shoudl not one register one's
wrath ? Showing the back-side is indecent ,but what about imposing
upper 5% 's culture on the people , what about the Hindi filmi dances
overt exposure of the pelvic stances in the dances? What about
imposing one low-low culture on the people of India . What about the
concept of Hope'86 and onwards ? what about the whole culture which the
media puts forth .Which is indecent , which is civil ?
Soumitra Bose
(Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>>BULLSHIT , HORSESHIT .....You have no idea who Suman is ...let alone
>>his history . You have no clue as to what his roots are and why (even
>>if wanted) Suman could never have become CPM.
>
> Dekho bhai, antoto tinjan bolechhe Suman'r atmojibani'te naki
bala
> achhe je Suman CPM'r stage'e geyechhe. Ekhon, dhopachchhe ke?
> Tumi, na Suman? (Ami boi-ta'r copy jogaR'r chestai achhe -
quotation
> post korbo.)
Ota CPM er program noi , SFIer ek unioner program . oto regular
JAdavpur er program kore ,seta tar nijer College , etodin projonto
MAkura sekhane union chalato . Ar setao onek din age jokhon bantola
niye she gan lekhe ni. bantolar por SFI DYFI ekebare trahi trahi rob
charlo ?
>
>>Please when you have
>>something to say be sure of the content. You have pretty little idea
>>about the brawl with him and Anandabazar
>
> Arnabbabu'r mon'r katha tumi janle ki kore balo dekhi!? Mairi,
tomra
> antorjami hoye jachchho naki?
>
Ekahane moner kotha to asheni. Ami bolechi Sumaner songye , ebong tar
itihas er songye porichoi thakle boro kono shotruo Suman ke MAku bolbe
na?
>>Group.Ican bet any stake if
>>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB group.
>
> Tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe? Ami ekta dime e-i tabil'e rakhlam.
> Abashyo jodi tumi balo je Suman etoi kharap gai je CPM'r statge'e
> na gaile tabei o CPM'r upakar korto, tabe alada katha.
>
>>Sayan was right , This is epistemic violence on part of the parents
of
>>the kid.
>
> Bangla-i bhujhiye balo ki bolte chaichho.
>
Eta ki nyaka sajjo na ektu ?
>>If no one is at least sarcastic to the cultural boot-licking
>>then what is the point.
>
> Of what?
>
>>A kid is today a kid , but one must point it to
>>the kid that the parents are leading herself to be a "dalal".
>
> Horseshit'r bangla ki balo to Soumitra?
>
>>Any
>>self-esteemed political and cultural person should have reacted much
>>more fiercely than Suman.
>
> Where does Soumitra get _these_ biblical revealations from?
Sayan,
> any idea (mane tumi Soumitra'r lekhapatro'r manetane Sambit'ke
besh
> pranjol kore bujhiye dichchhile kina, tai bhablam)?
>
Ami bolechi "should have" jekono political personalityr kach theke
etuku commitment ar ghar teramo ashai kora jai .
>>What kind of attitude is that "Aha baba ma ke
>>kichu bola jabe na " "tara pobitro".These craps are the ones against
>>which Suman is fighting.
>
> Suman tabe gan gaowa chheRe diyechhe? Eta ekta kaj'r kaj
korechhe!
Tomar songram sommondhe dharonata ki boloto? shudhu bonduk niye mathe
nama? na lorai er bohu rokomer rup achye, achha majhe majhe etota bhaja
machti ulte na khete na para(mane nyaka nyaka ) bhab na dekhalei ki
noi. Tumi to kolkatatei tomar koishor katiyecho , mongol grohoe to
chile na.
Apratim Sarkar
>(1) On "taking up the stage" to air protest : Suman has publicly stated that,
> being a public performer, he prefers the public arena of the performing
> space, namely "the stage" or podium, to make his dissent known, rather than
> express this dissent through the more private space of the printed page.
> I don't see anything wrong with this.
But Sayan, people pay Suman, a professional musician, to listen to his
music, not to his dissents. Hence people are upset when he got
sidetracked.
>(2) In a previous post someone mentioned that the "critic" was from Aaajkal.
> Now Mr. Maitra says that he was from Anandabajar. This is very strange.
> It seems that, as far as maligning Suman is concerned, anything goes, and
> not even the pretence of checking or verifying facts is necessary!
Does it make any difference to the actual issue, whether Suman's
behavior was appropriate, Sayan, as to whether the reporter was from
Ajkaal or AnandaBajar?
>(3) I don't see why such hullabaloo is being raised because Suman supposedly
> took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently some
> Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe boishakh
> we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" ! Tagore
> himself would have disliked such an idea intensely. I don't see anything
> wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after all
> Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir", of
> which Suman is a living embodiment.
Very true. PNochishe boishakh itself is not a "holy cow". The matter,
however, is a little different. Assume, for example, you go to
a conference in AI. There, while presenting your paper, you start to
"make your dissents known" about person XYZ, which has nothing to
do with the AI conference as such. The conference is no holy cow,
but is your behavior appropriate? Suman was there to celebrate
Tagore's birthday and not make his dissents known, right? He could have
called a press conference for that purpose. IMO, Suman simply used the
situation to his personal benefit. And that was in bad taste.
Of course, if the reporter's criticism and Suman's dissent were linked
with Tagore's birthday in some way, you have a point.
>-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>Yeah right! Someone else made those calls in the middle of the night
>from Suman's bedroom! The only possible explanation would be that
>Suman's wife was sleeping with someone, who made those calls.
>
>[As far as I know police reports confirmed that the calls came from
>Suman's bedroom phone number in the middle of the night.]
>
How do you know the police reports are not fabricated? Remember that
this is the same Calcutta police that murdured Idris in police custody
to prevent its dirty secrets from leaking out.
-Sayan.
Anindya Basu
In article <4dc97i$e...@inet-nntp-gw-1.us.oracle.com>, asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
> In article <4dc67u$6...@eclair4.cs.cornell.edu> ba...@cs.cornell.edu (Anindya Basu) writes:
> >why does x-windows take such a $%^&* long time to compile?
>
> Try DLLs in MS-Windows. the fun begins there. :-)
ms-windows? MS-WINDOWS? now why would i waste my time on that shit? linux rules,
folks!
-anindya
sayan bhattacharyya
Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> And (this is in reference to another of your postings) do you truly believe
>that just because nobody is forcing me to buy tickets, I have no right to
>comment on the nature of a performance.
Of course you have a right to comment (just as I have a right to reply to your
comments). Both you and I are exercising these two rights respectively.
Your comment above would have been relevant if I had attempted to censor
you or intimidate you into not posting to usenet. Did I do so? I disagreed
with the content of your posting, which did not violate your right in any
way.
>And while I don't mind
>you referring to me as Srabani, if you somehow have some objection to my
>surname, I do object to Srabani Mukherjee.
I apologize for the error.
-Sayan.
//// Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal \\\\
//// Support striking Detroit newspaper workers \\\\
//// Visit the Activist Resource Home Page \\\\
//// URL: http://www.sils.umich.edu/~plefr/HomePage2.html \\\\
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4dbqaq$a...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Srabani Banerjee) writes:
Directed at Sayan:
SB> You won't impose your standard of decency on someone else because that is
SB> censorship. But you don't find anything wrong when people try to set other
SB> standards on people, e.g., whether parents should teach their children to
SB> say `kaku' instead of `uncle'. In fact you actually support this. Do you really
SB> understand or believe what you are saying?
Nope Srabani-debi. That's the beauty of it.
Sayan openly claims
1. He doesn't practice what he preaches.
2. Its justified for people to be a bundle of contradictions.
3. People can change their opinions frequently.
4. Standards are always flexible.
Now I see why Sayan takes after Suman Chatterjee!! Here is the man
with an elastic morality! :-)
-Shubu
PS: Sayan -- no personal offence meant! Really!
Apratim Sarkar
>Mukh na khulleo(jeta ami ek lekhai Apratim ke
>bolechilam - oi ki keta obolombon kora arki) etakei bolle babapontha ,
>nijer shunnota .
Bujhlam na. Ektu detail korbe, amar reference ashchhe kotha theke?
>>Hya(n)! Lorai'er bohu rup! Jar modhyey aykta holo chhayar shonge
>lorai|
Chhaya'r shange loRai'r byapare tumi anek jano bodh hochchhe. Tomar
kachh theke tabe ekta purono proshno verify koriye nei. Sukumar Ray
jemon bolechhilen, gaye ki thik temni-i byatha hoi? Na ota gultappi?
>protyek ta swadhinotar dabi o
>lorai boroi dukhodayok, ta bole loke seta na kore dalalir noibedyo
>sajiye boshe thake?
Tai to dekhi America probashi kichhu kichhu purono biplobi'ke korte.
Tara exception na rule, jani na. Tomar ki mone hoi?
Soumitra Bose
GUP...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Arnab Gupta) writes:
>In his article Mr. Soumitra Bose writes:
>
>>>When the whole society is anti-human , when everything in the
society
>>>is anti-civil, pretty obnoxious then why shoudl not one register
one's
>>>wrath ? Showing the back-side is indecent ,but what about imposing
>>>upper 5% 's culture on the people , what about the Hindi filmi
dances
>>>overt exposure of the pelvic stances in the dances? What about
>>>imposing one low-low culture on the people of India . What about the
>>>concept of Hope'86 and onwards ? what about the whole culture which
the
>>>media puts forth .Which is indecent , which is civil ?
>
anti-civil,
>pretty obnoxious. ENTIRE SOCIETY!!! I do not know which society Suman
>belongs to being a human being himself. Or may be I am wrong. Maybe
>Suman is another AVATAAR (oi jara kakhono kakhono ashen arki amader
>moto papi-tapi'te bhora `anti-civil, pretty obnoxious' soceity'ke
>shudhrate).
In general society means the existing social-system- the institution
which putsw down its hegemonistic mores as social norms . In that sense
yes the entire society i,e the social-system is obnoxious .Not the
people or the sub-altern which never can assert thei own norms and
mores in the "national" society .
>
>So finally Suman's `back side showing' gets a sound support. Good! But
>I did not expect it will bring him down to the modern Bombay filmworld
>level. Frankly speaking, I myself shudder to think about this
comparison.
>
>In another article he writes:
>
>>>Ekahane moner kotha to asheni. Ami bolechi Sumaner songye , ebong
tar
>>>itihas er songye porichoi thakle boro kono shotruo Suman ke MAku
bolbe
>>>na?
>
>Amra to Suman bishoye beshi jani na| Oi `boroloker dalal' kagojgulo
>jara Suman'er lekha chhape, jara tar gan shonai amader tader shutro
>dhorei eshob kotha ar ki! taderi akjon onar atmojiboni chhape( jate
>uni nijer proshongshapatro'o chhapen), ar sheshob porei amra ei
>biplobitike jani| Ar eshob pore to onake `Maku' bolei mone hoi|
>Oboshyo ei shob biplobira boro shanghatik!!! Sayanbabu HMV theke
>cassete bar korake defend koren `destabilizing the establishment
>from within, not from the outside'. Aha! ki bhalo jukti!! Keu kichhu
>bolte parbe na! Ami amar shubidha moto jatotuku darkar niye nebo|
>Tarpor galie bhut bhagabo| Well common people call it hypocrisy. They
>are not so educated in this advanced theories of revolution. My
>father sums it up saying `making fish out of water'. I cannot but
>suggest (like Sayanbabu often does) that HMV must have liked this
>unique form of publicity. After all they prefer profit making.
>
Apnar "mone"howata odbhut. Banglar itihas ebong bishesh jore sottor
poroborty itihas sommondhye kono general knowledge o nei mone hochye .
Suman er atmojiboni saradiyo ajkal e chapano hoiechilo , kothai tate
achye je Suman Maku? Tar Chatrojibone jader naam kora hoiechye , je
ghotonar kotha bola hoiechey , segulote kothai MAkuder kotha ache ?
Suman jokhon College e chilen tokhon Makuder kono songhothon ki JU te
chilo? Ar oi atmojiboni ta mon diye porun , Suman je chatrosongothontar
songye chilo tara bamponthio chilo na . pore Nicaraguar poroborty
porjaie tar karjokolape kothai MAku chap ta ache ektu shuni ? Tobe
hai(n) apnar kache jodi bampnthi karjokolapi Maku britti hoi tobe bolte
hochhe je jekono class 5 er bachar thekeo apnar gyan gommi kom , nijer
obhigyota na thakle , lekhar age ektu porashuno korun , ba ektu
kolkatar thekgulote adda din , onek khobor paben.Suman niye kolom
dhorechen , othocho Suman sommondhye basic fact guloi janen na . Sei
amoler Chatro andolon janen na, Timirboron ke janen na(jake niye
Atmojiboni te lekha ache ) , Sesh porjonto nijer pandityo follalen
BAbar dohai diye , Mukh na khulleo(jeta ami ek lekhai Apratim ke
bolechilam - oi ki keta obolombon kora arki) etakei bolle babapontha ,
nijer shunnota .
>>>Eta ki nyaka sajjo na ektu ?
>
>Sheta to holo| Kintu apnar uttor'ta paoa gyalo ki? Aapni to pray lokke
>dhomke kaku bolanoi bishwashi| Edike mukhe American slang chhara
kichhu
>beroi na| Oboshyo bangla galagal kheleo je khub khushi hotam ta noi|
Ke
>ar khamoka galagal khete bhalobashe bolun? Tobu akta shwasti thakto
>je galagali deoai apni akdom hypocrite non|
>
>>>Tomar songram sommondhe dharonata ki boloto? shudhu bonduk niye
mathe
>>>nama? na lorai er bohu rokomer rup achye, achha majhe majhe etota
bhaja
>>>machti ulte na khete na para(mane nyaka nyaka ) bhab na dekhalei ki
>>>noi. Tumi to kolkatatei tomar koishor katiyecho , mongol grohoe to
>>>chile na.
>
>Hya(n)! Lorai'er bohu rup! Jar modhyey aykta holo chhayar shonge
lorai|
Chayata to mental construct . Apnar kache cultural ba ideological
reality ke oshikar kore utpakhir moto thaka . PRithibir shob loraii
kintu oi mental construct ba "chaya" r songyei hoi. Sekhane MAnush
Chayake protinidhitto kore .Lorai ta bajhik bhabe dui manusher modhye
holeo antosottai ta hoi duto mental construct er modhye orthat duto
chayar modhye.
>Tobe er phol'ta temon shukhodayok hoi na|
BEsh gonoker ar dadu er moto word of wisdom charlen to . Age theke jene
gechen konta sukhodayok hobe ki hobe na. Ar hai(n) jibone kon bikash ta
suklhodayak bolte paren ? kon srijonshil break ta sukhodayok ?
Anondodayok jinish kitu prothom biochare ba tatkhonik porjaie
sukhodayok khub kom somoiei hoi.jemon protyek ta swadhinotar dabi o
Apratim Sarkar
>> bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>>
>> >(3) I don't see why such hullabaloo is being raised because Suman supposedly
>> > took issue with this gentleman on pNochishe boishakh. Apparently some
>> > Bengalis are fond of setting up holy cows, and so on pNochishe boishakh
>> > we should all speak in hushed tones and express "reverence" ! Tagore
>> > himself would have disliked such an idea intensely. I don't see anything
>> > wrong with Suman expressing dissent on Tagore's birthday : after all
>> > Tagore himself wrote "chitto jetha bhoyshunyo, uchcho jetha shir", of
>> > which Suman is a living embodiment.
>>
>> Very true. PNochishe boishakh itself is not a "holy cow". The matter,
>> however, is a little different. Assume, for example, you go to
>> a conference in AI. There, while presenting your paper, you start to
>> "make your dissents known" about person XYZ, which has nothing to
>> do with the AI conference as such. The conference is no holy cow,
>> but is your behavior appropriate? Suman was there to celebrate
>> Tagore's birthday and not make his dissents known, right? He could have
>> called a press conference for that purpose. IMO, Suman simply used the
>> situation to his personal benefit. And that was in bad taste.
>>
>
>about tagore and if suman decided to make his dissent known, it would be an
>appropriate forum. you can question the suman's taste on his criticizing
>tagore during his birthday celebration but you cannot say that suman's criticism
>had nothing to do with the occasion since both the dissent and the occasion concern
>the same person. whether suman used the occasion to his personal benifit is a moot
>point - we cannot be sure of his motives in this respect. maybe he attended the
>celebration simply in order to make his dissent known.
I am confused here. Was Suman's dissent about Tagore or about one
particular reporter who had nothing to do with Tagore? I thought it
was the later. If it is the former, then I retract my comment with
apologies, and agree that Suman had a good point in choosing PB as the
occasion to let his dissent known.
Can someone please clarify? Thanks.
>-anindya
>
>why does x-windows take such a $%^&* long time to compile?
Try DLLs in MS-Windows. the fun begins there. :-)
Apratim.
Indranil DasGupta
amar-o buro kan chulke othe. Kintu tai bole bachcha meyer shamne erokom
byektigoto bishoy niye tar baba/ma ke opoman korata bod-ruchi chhara ar
kichhu noy.
Srabani Banerjee has argued very well. I think it's time to beat a
retreat on this front.
On the other fronts (Arnab,Apra,Sambarta etc) so far you have been
walking a razor's edge. Granted that a man is innocent until proven
guilty. But even forgetting about the Biplob Chatujje incident , there
is no law against displaying bad-taste on stage. Rest assured that no
one will hang Suman for his alleged misconduct.
I personally do not find it too offensive if a singer turns his back on
the audience in jest. But kaku:uncle was definitely an overkill.
Indranil.
Srabani Banerjee (BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: Sayan Bhattacharya writes
: >In article <4d96iq$3...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
: >Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
: >>Suppose I have a personal grudge against you. And I prefer the public arena of
: >>the performing space, namely this newsgroup, to make my dissent known, rather
: >>than express this dissent through the more private space of an e-mail.
: >So far, I do not see anything wrong with this.
: >>And
: >>additionally, I do this in a manner which is generally considered to be
: >>indecent. Do you see anything wrong with this?
: >I don't see anything wrong with this, provided the dissent is not dishonest
: >(i.e. no false claims or character assassination is being done). As for
: >decency, everyone has their own standards. I won't impose my standard of
: >decency on someone else -- that would be censorship.
: You won't impose your standard of decency on someone else because that is
: censorship. But you don't find anything wrong when people try to set other
: standards on people, e.g., whether parents should teach their children to
: say `kaku' instead of `uncle'. In fact you actually support this. Do you really
: understand or believe what you are saying?
: >This is precisely what is
: >happening, some people are now trying to censor and silence Suman. This is
: >a common fate of dissident singers like Suman. The same thing happened to
: >Pete Seeger (he was blacklisted for being a member of the U.S. communist
: >party), Woody Guthrie (blacklisted for the same reason), Wolf Biermann
: >(censored because of his opposition to the East German dictatorship of
: >Honecker).
: Sayanbabu, why bring in the government and establishment into this. I know
: of quite a number of people who used to be die-hard Suman fans who have now
: turned away from his antics in disgust. And, believe me, they are the common
: people, without political affiliations. Now before you jump at that, by
: `political affiliations', I mean support for any of the political parties
: in West Bengal (or India).
: >> Do you object to people expressing "reverence" to a person whose birth
: >>anniversary is being celebrated?
: >No, but I object to the so-called reverence being taken to a ridiculous
: >extreme.
: When you say `ridiculous extreme' aren't you imposing your own standard?
: >>Or do you object to the concept of
: >>celebrating a person's birth anniversary?
: >I do not object to it, although I think it is rather hypocritical to pay lip
: >service to the ideals of a man for only one day of the year and forget
: >him for the remaining 364 days.
: O.K., so do I. But how do you know that people who object to Suman's antics
sayan bhattacharyya
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>Suman has done much more than merely do an occasional "charity
>program" for the striking Kanoria jute mill workers.
I forgot to mention in my last post that Suman had also been to
Phuleswar (where Kanoria Jute Mill is located) several times to
lend his personal moral support to the KJM workers. Further, he
sang for and with the workers at the mill to keep up their
spirits.
Someone once said "It is easy to give money, it is much harder
to give oneself." Suman has not only raised money by doing
benefit programs for the KJM workers, but he has also given
himself to them. This is a sign of his commitment to the
principles that he sings in his songs.
Arnab Gupta
Soumitrababu
Aapnaar chithhi porlam| beshi kichhu labh korlam na, tobe
a(y)kta shikhha pelam - tarko korte hole bhadroloker shongei kora
bhalo| Aapni prothom je chithhita likhechhilen tar jobab
ami diini| Tar karon apnaar pokhyey shombhob holeo amar pokhhe
thik atota niche nama shombhob noi| Dwitio chithitar (jeta amake
uddeshyo kore lekha noi) jobab diei bhulta korlam|
Ami Suman Chattopadhyay kolkatar gorbo kina shei bishoye
kichhu proshno korechhilam| Na ami sottor'er Banglar kotha jani
na (ki kore janlen ke jane), Timirboron'er kotha khub beshi jani
na, kintu tai bole Suman'er pichhon dyakhanote (ba aro onyanyo je
ghotonagulor kotha likhechilam) kharap lagle protibad korte parbo
na-amon tathwo kothai pelen ke jane| Aapni akhono porjonto kono
obhijog'er jobab dyanni, shudhu chechiyechen ami katota jani na
ta proman korte| Ota kora apnar pokhyey shombhob noi, eta class
five'er gyan thakleo aapni bujhte parten|
Jakge chitkar kora aapnar dharmo jodi hoi tahole korun|
Tobe tate bishesh kichhu proman hoi na, jemon hoini e khetreo|
Ei dharaner torker Kanpur'e bochhor duek thakar shomoi ami khub
shammukhin hotam| Jara masjid bhengechhilo, jara muslim samprodai
kyano bharote thakbe ei niye proshno tole, tarao erokom tarko
kore| Onekta shei class five'er bachhader moto "tui beshi janish?"
Athocho jegulo proshno sheiguloi erie jaoa|
Aapnar chithir uttor deoar oporadh shikar kore niye
Arnab Gupta
Apratim Sarkar
>How do you know the police reports are not fabricated? Remember that
>this is the same Calcutta police that murdured Idris in police custody
>to prevent its dirty secrets from leaking out.
Tahole Sayan, Kolkata pulish'r past behavior'r context'e present
behavior analyze kara holo ekdam niyammafik, kintu onno alochana-i
purono context tene anlei ta holo debate'r ain bhanga!? ;-)
Ar jodi Suman sure-i hoi je phone-gulo or baRi theke hoini, don't
you think that he "should" (borrowing a word for you) not waste this
golden opportunity to "expose" (borrowing a word from Parthababu) the
establishment (being the bold social critique that he is) by filing a
defamation suit?
>-Sayan.
Apratim Sarkar
>Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>> But Sayan, people pay Suman, a professional musician, to listen to his
>> music, not to his dissents. Hence people are upset when he got
>> sidetracked.
>
>Nobody is forcing these people to buy tickets for Suman shows. For me,
>a Suman performance consists of Suman's music as well as Suman's social
>commentary. Indeed, I think one cannot be separated from the other, and
>the two together make up Suman's Weltanschauung.
>
>I recognize that other people might be interested only in the music. If
>they feel offended, they should not buy tickets. People who pay for tickets
>are buyers (recall Suman's song "jodi bhabo kinchho amay"), and like all
>buyers, the principle of caveat emptor applies to them.
Whoa, wait, Sayan! I have no inclination to discuss what other people
"should" do. I find that anodhikar charcha. I was trying to explain
to you why, perhaps, the people found Suman's behavior inappropriate,
which for some reason it seemed that you were unable to comprehend
before. Since you have mentioned above that you do recognize it now,
I have nothing to add.
>> Suman was there to celebrate
>> Tagore's birthday and not make his dissents known, right? He could have
>> called a press conference for that purpose. IMO, Suman simply used the
>> situation to his personal benefit. And that was in bad taste.
>
>No, Suman was there to give a performance.
That too. The two events were not disjoint or orthogonal, Sayan,
not at least in the perception of a sizable section of the audience,
as was clear from their reaction re PNochishe Boishakh etc.
But assuming even that they are, just change my statement to "Suamn
was there to give a performance and not ...".
>And he never hides the fact that
>he considers social commentary and criticism a part of performance. Tagore's
>birthday may have been the occasion for the performance, but the performance
>itself was autonomous of Tagore.
The hoopla over was personal grievances AFAIK, not over any social
issues. Unless you consider Suman's personal grievances to be
broader social issues in the context of contemporary Bengali society.
Perhaps not many will agree with you there.
>And it was not to his personal benefit . Consider : given the clout that
>big newspapers have, there is no benefit in antagonozing them.
Suman had already anatagonized the newspapers, he was trying to win
the audience over to his side, IMO.
Look, cribbing about personal grievances in public is never beneficial.
But still people pull such stunts hoping to win over a few supporters.
They are immature fools, and the action costs them dearly in the long
run. But that doesn't mean that they didn't hope to reap some benefits
when they first pulled the stunt.
Sudeshna Das
: asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
: > Dekho bhai, antoto tinjan bolechhe Suman'r atmojibani'te naki
: bala
: > achhe je Suman CPM'r stage'e geyechhe. Ekhon, dhopachchhe ke?
: > Tumi, na Suman? (Ami boi-ta'r copy jogaR'r chestai achhe -
: quotation
: > post korbo.)
: Ota CPM er program noi , SFIer ek unioner program . oto regular
SFI'r political affiliation jeno kon baRo party'r shange?
Tumi to Kolkata'i anek thek merechho Soumitra, dekhi to eta jano
kina?
: JAdavpur er program kore ,seta tar nijer College , etodin projonto
: MAkura sekhane union chalato . Ar setao onek din age jokhon bantola
: niye she gan lekhe ni. bantolar por SFI DYFI ekebare trahi trahi rob
: charlo ?
Onek din age pare'r katha ami to bolini. Tumi bolechhile "konodin"'r
katha. Ekhon chepe dhorte "HNyan bohudin age amon ektu hoye gechhilo,
ar hoi na." - ei bolchho?
: >>Please when you have
: >>something to say be sure of the content. You have pretty little idea
: >>about the brawl with him and Anandabazar
: >
: > Arnabbabu'r mon'r katha tumi janle ki kore balo dekhi!? Mairi,
: tomra
: > antorjami hoye jachchho naki?
: >
: Ekahane moner kotha to asheni. Ami bolechi Sumaner songye , ebong tar
: itihas er songye porichoi thakle boro kono shotruo Suman ke MAku bolbe
: na?
Ta to tumi balo ni guru. Ki bolechhile nijei pore dekho. Actually
uttejito hoye poRle tumi eto baje bako, jak ge, ebar jeta bolchho,
sheta probably very true. Suamn CPM noi bolei amar dharona. Ta bole,
konodin ga ghNyasha ghNyashi-tao je koreni, ta kintu noi. Ki balo?
Ta, emontaro chhNok chhNok behavior ki khub principled lok'r lokkhon?
: >>Group.Ican bet any stake if
: >>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB group.
: >
: > Tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe? Ami ekta dime e-i tabil'e rakhlam.
: > Abashyo jodi tumi balo je Suman etoi kharap gai je CPM'r statge'e
: > na gaile tabei o CPM'r upakar korto, tabe alada katha.
Abar jigesh korchhi, tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe. Katha'r daam thakle
rakho Soumitra.
: >>Sayan was right , This is epistemic violence on part of the parents
: of
: >>the kid.
: >
: > Bangla-i bhujhiye balo ki bolte chaichho.
: >
: Eta ki nyaka sajjo na ektu ?
Guru, kaku'ke uncle bala'ke epistemic violence bala, e amar kachhe
almost epistemic rape, violence shabda-ti'r opor. Violence'ke ar
kibhabe, balo Soumitra, trivialize kara sambhab?
: >>If no one is at least sarcastic to the cultural boot-licking
: >>then what is the point.
: >
: > Of what?
Abar boli, of what?
: >>A kid is today a kid , but one must point it to
: >>the kid that the parents are leading herself to be a "dalal".
: >
: > Horseshit'r bangla ki balo to Soumitra?
Bolle na, jano na to? O-i to, chhotobelai keu shekhai ni tai aaj
tomar e-i aboshtha. Dalal dekhle chinte paro?
: >>Any
: >>self-esteemed political and cultural person should have reacted much
: >>more fiercely than Suman.
: >
: > Where does Soumitra get _these_ biblical revealations from?
: Sayan,
: > any idea (mane tumi Soumitra'r lekhapatro'r manetane Sambit'ke
: besh
: > pranjol kore bujhiye dichchhile kina, tai bhablam)?
: >
: Ami bolechi "should have" jekono political personalityr kach theke
: etuku commitment ar ghar teramo ashai kora jai .
Political personality ar self-esteemed political and cultural
person - e duto ek holo? Arek epistemic rape, na ki?
: > Suman tabe gan gaowa chheRe diyechhe? Eta ekta kaj'r kaj
: korechhe!
: Tomar songram sommondhe dharonata ki boloto? shudhu bonduk niye mathe
: nama? na lorai er bohu rokomer rup achye, achha majhe majhe etota bhaja
: machti ulte na khete na para(mane nyaka nyaka ) bhab na dekhalei ki
: noi. Tumi to kolkatatei tomar koishor katiyecho , mongol grohoe to
: chile na.
Ki mairi! Kotha'r theke kothai! Ke tullo sangram'r katha? Suman'r
gaan'r lyrics amar weak lage, tai o gaan chheRe dile ekta kaj'r
moto kaj korbe, etai amar mat. Ekdam personal. Ekhane nyakami dekhchho
kothai?
Apratim.
Kuntal Sengupta
Suckeye (OSU) people... 5+ years of experience in supporting a losing
team tells me that the Michigan people are always right, and they will
always win the battle, whether it is football, or Suman Chattujje...
OSU people (from kcgl): please quit, the battle is not to be won by us
losers :-) ...(Hey, blame Cooper and his 1/cos(C) daughter and not me!)
(just kiddin')
BTW, sticking to the topic, Suman sings pretty well..I would listen to
him rather than Snoop Doggy Dog's gangsta rap, or say Pearl Jams
crying ... :-) Whether he is CPM, or Congress, or AIADMK, who gives..
-KSG
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4da3n9$6...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> In article <SHUBU.96J...@providence.cs.wisc.edu>, Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>> Yeah right! Someone else made those calls in the middle of the night
>> from Suman's bedroom! The only possible explanation would be that
>> Suman's wife was sleeping with someone, who made those calls.
>>
>> [As far as I know police reports confirmed that the calls came from
>> Suman's bedroom phone number in the middle of the night.]
>>
SB> How do you know the police reports are not fabricated?
Were you in OJ's defense team?
-Shubu
PS: How do you know Suman is not lying?
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <GUP...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>Do not know when Suman has always adopted a strong, courageous and
>independent stance. Kanoria jute mill - Tell me what the big deal
>it is to go and sing for it. It is a commendable deed, I admit, but
>in what way is it courageous, bold and bla bla bla. Aren't we used
>to seeing charity raising programs? Name a single Bengali singer
>who has never attended such a programme.
>
Suman has done much more than merely do an occasional "charity
program" for the striking Kanoria jute mill workers.
(I) He has mentioned and saluted the brave workers of Kanoria
Jute Mill in almost all his concerts (I can speak of 1994, that
was the year I spent in Calcutta). This has helped to raise the
consciousness among the people at large who came to hear his
concerts, about the issue.
(2) He has touched on the struggle of Kanoria in at least two of
his songs : "Chholat chhol" and "Haal chheRo na bondhu". In
the latter song, he always used to add on an additional line
" dekha hobe tomay amay kanoria-r "door"-e " whenever he sang
it in concert.
-Sayan.
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4dblc2$j...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> Frankly, I don't see why this is a big deal. Apparently this critic was
SB> in the audience and Suman said (I'm paraphrasing): "Apni to amar pechchone
SB> lagchhen, to ei ami apnar dike pechhon phire dNaralam." Then he stood on stage
SB> with his back to the audience for a couple of seconds. As simple as that.
SB> I don't see why netters are exploding in paroxysms of pishima-marka prudery
SB> at such a simple incident.
There is a certain level of decency that society lives with. I don't
care how worthy were the "ends" he was trying to achieve. His "means"
was definitely crude, vulgar, and idiotic -- something you don't
expect from a famous person like Suman Chatterjee, who is supposed to
set examples for others. That is, his ends do not justify his means.
SB> If you read "Tasher Desh", you will see that Tagore was always on the side
SB> of iconoclasts who challenged useless tradition.
Sure, let's make "mooning" a part of Bengali culture. Instead of
shaking our hands, we will show our butts. Boy! Won't that be nice?
:-) Maybe we can shake our butts too ...
SB> Recall also that charges of
SB> "indecency" were levelled at the "Kallol" writers like Buddhadeb Bose and
SB> Premen Mitra, Tagore took their side against that of the establishment.
SB> That
SB> is why I feel that had Tagore been alive, he would have been on the side of
SB> Suman and not on the side of the big newspapers.
Heavens no!! Tagore said
Chitto jetha bhoi shunno
Uchho jetha shir
NOT
Pachha jetha unmukto
Pistho jetha maan
-Shubu
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4dbqaq$a...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Srabani Banerjee) writes:
Directed at Sayan:
SB> You won't impose your standard of decency on someone else because that is
SB> censorship. But you don't find anything wrong when people try to set other
SB> standards on people, e.g., whether parents should teach their children to
SB> say `kaku' instead of `uncle'. In fact you actually support this. Do you really
SB> understand or believe what you are saying?
Nope Srabani-debi. That's the beauty of it.
Sayan openly claims
1. He doesn't practice what he preaches.
2. Its justified for people to be a bundle of contradictions.
3. People can change their opinions frequently.
4. Standards are always flexible.
Now I see why Sayan takes after Suman Chatterjee!! Here is the man
with an elastic morality! :-)
-Shubu
PS: Sayan -- no personal offence meant! Really!
sayan bhattacharyya
Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>SB> How do you know the police reports are not fabricated?
>
You don't get it. "Innocent until proved guilty" is a cardinal
principle. The onus is not on Suman to prove that he is innocent.
The onus is on the police to prove that he is guilty. The fact that
the police have NOT initiated criminal proceedings against Suman
speaks volumes about the fact that that the so-called "evidence"
against him would not stand up in a court of law.
We all know instances where due to corruption in Calcutta Telephones,
STD calls made from one number show up in another number's telephone
bill. That being so, how can we trust Calcutta Telephones when they
say that the so-called abusive calls were made from Suman's number?
Soumitra Bose
>
>Soumitra Bose (soum...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>: > Dekho bhai, antoto tinjan bolechhe Suman'r atmojibani'te naki
>: bala
>: > achhe je Suman CPM'r stage'e geyechhe. Ekhon, dhopachchhe ke?
>: > Tumi, na Suman? (Ami boi-ta'r copy jogaR'r chestai achhe -
>: quotation
>: > post korbo.)
>
>: Ota CPM er program noi , SFIer ek unioner program . oto regular
>
> SFI'r political affiliation jeno kon baRo party'r shange?
> Tumi to Kolkata'i anek thek merechho Soumitra, dekhi to eta jano
> kina?
Ekta Union jokhon dake seta ar party program alada thake . Amra
Presidency te shobai ke daktam emon ki pa(n)r rightistder , tara ki
tobe "Ugro" ponthi shob . Mone poreche ekbar , Sunil o PRanab Mukherjee
eshechilo. Darun jomto tahole , edero chap mara hoie jabe.
>
>: JAdavpur er program kore ,seta tar nijer College , etodin projonto
>: MAkura sekhane union chalato . Ar setao onek din age jokhon bantola
>: niye she gan lekhe ni. bantolar por SFI DYFI ekebare trahi trahi rob
>: charlo ?
>
> Onek din age pare'r katha ami to bolini. Tumi bolechhile
"konodin"'r
> katha. Ekhon chepe dhorte "HNyan bohudin age amon ektu hoye
gechhilo,
> ar hoi na." - ei bolchho?
>
Ami bolechi se CPM er kono program kore ni , ekjon to bollen CPMer
election campaign korechen , tai ami bolechilam BULLSHIT. OTA hoi na .
SFI er union er program onek din age hoiechilo , ekhon SFI ba DYF
Suman ke union meetinge ghunakhoreo dakbe na.
>: >>Please when you have
>: >>something to say be sure of the content. You have pretty little
idea
>: >>about the brawl with him and Anandabazar
>: >
>: > Arnabbabu'r mon'r katha tumi janle ki kore balo dekhi!? Mairi,
>: tomra
>: > antorjami hoye jachchho naki?
>: >
>: Ekahane moner kotha to asheni. Ami bolechi Sumaner songye , ebong
tar
>: itihas er songye porichoi thakle boro kono shotruo Suman ke MAku
bolbe
>: na?
>
> Ta to tumi balo ni guru. Ki bolechhile nijei pore dekho. Actually
> uttejito hoye poRle tumi eto baje bako, jak ge, ebar jeta
bolchho,
> sheta probably very true. Suamn CPM noi bolei amar dharona. Ta
bole,
> konodin ga ghNyasha ghNyashi-tao je koreni, ta kintu noi. Ki
balo?
> Ta, emontaro chhNok chhNok behavior ki khub principled lok'r
lokkhon?
>
Ga ghy(n)sha ghe(ns)shi je koreni tar boro proman , Suman er ichhe
thakleo CPM take chu(m)be na , jokhon CPMer totkalin boro chatroneta
"CHingri"(se konodin tinti chele jogar korte pareni 71 thke 74 sale)
ekhon CPMer MP. Suman er itihas theke ar jeu hok CPM bhalo shiksha nei.
>: >>Group.Ican bet any stake if
>: >>you can prove that Suman ever did anything favouring CPM or AB
group.
>: >
>: > Tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe? Ami ekta dime e-i tabil'e rakhlam.
>: > Abashyo jodi tumi balo je Suman etoi kharap gai je CPM'r statge'e
>: > na gaile tabei o CPM'r upakar korto, tabe alada katha.
>
> Abar jigesh korchhi, tomar gaRi-ta baji rakhbe. Katha'r daam
thakle
> rakho Soumitra.
>
>: >>Sayan was right , This is epistemic violence on part of the
parents
>: of
>: >>the kid.
>: >
>: > Bangla-i bhujhiye balo ki bolte chaichho.
>: >
>: Eta ki nyaka sajjo na ektu ?
>
> Guru, kaku'ke uncle bala'ke epistemic violence bala, e amar
kachhe
> almost epistemic rape, violence shabda-ti'r opor. Violence'ke ar
> kibhabe, balo Soumitra, trivialize kara sambhab?
>
Baba tobe ar ki. Jokhoni MAster er culture ke impose korano hoi kochi
mone, setakei to dictionary onujaii epistemic violence bole ....
>: >>If no one is at least sarcastic to the cultural boot-licking
>: >>then what is the point.
>: >
>: > Of what?
>
> Abar boli, of what?
>
>: >>A kid is today a kid , but one must point it to
>: >>the kid that the parents are leading herself to be a "dalal".
>: >
>: > Horseshit'r bangla ki balo to Soumitra?
>
> Bolle na, jano na to? O-i to, chhotobelai keu shekhai ni tai aaj
> tomar e-i aboshtha. Dalal dekhle chinte paro?
>
Shunle chena jai , kaj dekhle bojha jai.
Ar Horseshiter bangla bolar dorkar nei , karon oi lekhata ami ingrezite
likhechilam ek ingrezi lekhar uttore, muloto jar songye ami er age
kokhono bangali chithi chapati korini.
Je bhashai proshno sei bhasha te uttor parotopokshe deoata uchit bole
amar bishash(amar nijer kache). Ami ki tobe take Saontali ba Deutsche
ditam ?
>: >>self-esteemed political and cultural person should have reacted
much
>: >>more fiercely than Suman.
>: >
>: > Where does Soumitra get _these_ biblical revealations from?
>: Sayan,
>: > any idea (mane tumi Soumitra'r lekhapatro'r manetane Sambit'ke
>: besh
>: > pranjol kore bujhiye dichchhile kina, tai bhablam)?
>: >
>: Ami bolechi "should have" jekono political personalityr kach theke
>: etuku commitment ar ghar teramo ashai kora jai .
>
> Political personality ar self-esteemed political and cultural
> person - e duto ek holo? Arek epistemic rape, na ki?
>
Rajniti jodi politics ba hoie polytricking hoi , tobe hoito alada.
>: > Suman tabe gan gaowa chheRe diyechhe? Eta ekta kaj'r kaj
>: korechhe!
>
>: Tomar songram sommondhe dharonata ki boloto? shudhu bonduk niye
mathe
>: nama? na lorai er bohu rokomer rup achye, achha majhe majhe etota
bhaja
>: machti ulte na khete na para(mane nyaka nyaka ) bhab na dekhalei ki
>: noi. Tumi to kolkatatei tomar koishor katiyecho , mongol grohoe to
>: chile na.
>
> Ki mairi! Kotha'r theke kothai! Ke tullo sangram'r katha? Suman'r
> gaan'r lyrics amar weak lage, tai o gaan chheRe dile ekta kaj'r
> moto kaj korbe, etai amar mat. Ekdam personal. Ekhane nyakami
dekhchho
> kothai?
Sangramer kotha ami tulechi , karon Sumaner gaan tar songramer
bohiprokash, eta taro mot .Tai se gan ba(n)dhe ar gan gai songram
hishebe , se songram Sorbahar nao hote pare , Wolf Biermann nijeke
sorboharar neta bolen na , Suman o bolen na .Ta(n)r nijosho songram
apotkalin institutioner birudhe.. Ami ta(n)r ediktar onugrahi .Tai ami
sei alokei dekhi .
>
> Apratim.
>
>
Sudeshna Das
: Ekta Union jokhon dake seta ar party program alada thake . Amra
Eta byaktigata matamat, na absolute truth?
: Presidency te shobai ke daktam emon ki pa(n)r rightistder , tara ki
: tobe "Ugro" ponthi shob . Mone poreche ekbar , Sunil o PRanab Mukherjee
: eshechilo. Darun jomto tahole , edero chap mara hoie jabe.
Wait, Suman Bam ki Dan, ta niye amar kono matamat nei. Tumi be-line'e
chole jachchho Soumitra. Suman CPM'r stage gaile tabe ki chokhe take
dekha uchit ta niye to ami kichhu bolini, geyechhe ki gaini sheta
niyei amar proshno chhilo.
: Ami bolechi se CPM er kono program kore ni ,
Tomar uporakto matamat-ti absolute truth hole, tumi thik-i bolechho.
Noile, noi.
: ekjon to bollen CPMer
: election campaign korechen , tai ami bolechilam BULLSHIT. OTA hoi na .
Onno ke ki bolechhe sheta tumi amake shonachchho keno? Ami
horseshit'r Bangla jante pelei khushi.
: SFI er union er program onek din age hoiechilo , ekhon SFI ba DYF
: Suman ke union meetinge ghunakhoreo dakbe na.
Ta niye ki ami kichhu bolechhi? Safai deba'r proyojon jagchhe keno?
: Ga ghy(n)sha ghe(ns)shi je koreni tar boro proman , Suman er ichhe
: thakleo CPM take chu(m)be na , jokhon CPMer totkalin boro chatroneta
: "CHingri"(se konodin tinti chele jogar korte pareni 71 thke 74 sale)
: ekhon CPMer MP. Suman er itihas theke ar jeu hok CPM bhalo shiksha nei.
Suman'r ichchhe thakleo ki habe/hote pare, sheta'r age ichchhe'ta
achhe/chhilo kina, she byaparta clear hok?
: Baba tobe ar ki. Jokhoni MAster er culture ke impose korano hoi kochi
: mone, setakei to dictionary onujaii epistemic violence bole ....
Imposition kothai? Kar opor? Master-i ba ke? Ektu detail korbe?
: Shunle chena jai , kaj dekhle bojha jai.
: Ar Horseshiter bangla bolar dorkar nei , karon oi lekhata ami ingrezite
: likhechilam ek ingrezi lekhar uttore, muloto jar songye ami er age
: kokhono bangali chithi chapati korini.
: Je bhashai proshno sei bhasha te uttor parotopokshe deoata uchit bole
: amar bishash(amar nijer kache). Ami ki tobe take Saontali ba Deutsche
: ditam ?
Eta khub bhalo bishwash. E-i angle theke ebar Suman'r behavior-ta
analyze kore balo, ki mone hochchhe?
: Rajniti jodi politics ba hoie polytricking hoi , tobe hoito alada.
Tumi to nije anek rajniti korechho, lokmukhe shuni ekhon naki
disillusioned, tomar ki mone hoi? _Eta personal attack hishebe niyo
na, eta sincere proshno, tomar experience'r katha mone rekhe._
: Sangramer kotha ami tulechi , karon Sumaner gaan tar songramer
: bohiprokash, eta taro mot .Tai se gan ba(n)dhe ar gan gai songram
: hishebe , se songram Sorbahar nao hote pare , Wolf Biermann nijeke
: sorboharar neta bolen na , Suman o bolen na .Ta(n)r nijosho songram
: apotkalin institutioner birudhe.. Ami ta(n)r ediktar onugrahi .Tai ami
: sei alokei dekhi .
Ami gaan jinish-ti e angle theke dekhi na, so no comments.
Apratim.
Soumitra Bose
>
>Soumitra Bose (soum...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>
> Eta byaktigata matamat, na absolute truth?
Somoshya , er uttor dite gele rajnoitik dolgulor party program jante
hobe , ontoto pokshe makuder karjokolap o podhotti study korte hobe,
oboshyo ta korte gele serious howa dorkar , hoi porashuno and/or
onudhabon kora dorkar.
>
>: Presidency te shobai ke daktam emon ki pa(n)r rightistder , tara ki
>: tobe "Ugro" ponthi shob . Mone poreche ekbar , Sunil o PRanab
Mukherjee
>: eshechilo. Darun jomto tahole , edero chap mara hoie jabe.
>
> Wait, Suman Bam ki Dan, ta niye amar kono matamat nei. Tumi
be-line'e
> chole jachchho Soumitra. Suman CPM'r stage gaile tabe ki chokhe
take
> dekha uchit ta niye to ami kichhu bolini, geyechhe ki gaini sheta
> niyei amar proshno chhilo.
>
Er uttor onek agei diyechi , ota CPMer stage noi. seta Gononatyo
songher ek ta program ar college unioner dwitwiyo program . Ei dutotei
bohu CPM birodhi loko achen , tara ekebare khub kormi levelo na .
Dinobondhu Andrews Colleger SFI porichalito hoto ekta shomoie Azisul
Huq der netritye , oto sohoj bhabe uttor hoi na . Amar uttor chilo oi
Arnab er montobbe "dekhe sune Suman ke MAku bolei mone Hoi" Amar ekhon
dharona hochye Arnab MAku bolte jabotiyo bamponthider bujhiyechilo
hoito.
>: Ami bolechi se CPM er kono program kore ni ,
>
> Tomar uporakto matamat-ti absolute truth hole, tumi thik-i
bolechho.
Ei Absolute Truth byapar ta ki bujhi na , er uttore Sayaner boktobyo
khub porishkar . Adau absolute truth byaparta konorokom mental
construct er abhidhanik ortheo pore kina proshno achye...
>
> Noile, noi.
>
>: ekjon to bollen CPMer
sayan bhattacharyya
Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>>
>>I forgot to mention in my last post that Suman had also been to
>>Phuleswar (where Kanoria Jute Mill is located) several times to
>>lend his personal moral support to the KJM workers. Further, he
>>sang for and with the workers at the mill to keep up their
>>spirits.
>>
> amar mone hoi. Kintu tumi ki Julia Roberts'ke Suman'r level'e
> rakhbe?
>
Apratim, I am sorry but I don't know who Julia Roberts is. Could
you clarify? Who is she?
>--
>No doubt the world is entirely an Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
>imaginary world, but it is only once are my own and shouldn't be construed in
>removed from the true world. any way to represent that of my employer.
> - Issac Bashevis Singer.
You should correct the typo in your signature file (it's "Isaac" not
"Issac" as far as I know).
-Sayan.
Rajiv Shukla
>
>
>why does x-windows take such a $%^&* long time to compile?
What is "x-windows" ? A technical person like you should know that it's
^
"X Window" or "X" if I understand you correctly. An amazing number of
technical people seem to make the same mistake, I wonder why!
Rajiv
P.S Once I read a book on X Window system administration where the author
mentioned that he usually got furious when people used to say "x windows",
according to him that one mistake proved the concerned person knew nothing
about "X".
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.
Sudipto Chatterjee
: In article <SHUBU.96J...@providence.cs.wisc.edu>,
: Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
: >
: >SB> How do you know the police reports are not fabricated?
: >
: >PS: How do you know Suman is not lying?
: You don't get it. "Innocent until proved guilty" is a cardinal
: principle. The onus is not on Suman to prove that he is innocent.
: The onus is on the police to prove that he is guilty. The fact that
: the police have NOT initiated criminal proceedings against Suman
: speaks volumes about the fact that that the so-called "evidence"
: against him would not stand up in a court of law.
: We all know instances where due to corruption in Calcutta Telephones,
: STD calls made from one number show up in another number's telephone
: bill. That being so, how can we trust Calcutta Telephones when they
: say that the so-called abusive calls were made from Suman's number?
: -Sayan.
: //// Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal \\\\
: //// Support striking Detroit newspaper workers \\\\
: //// Visit the Activist Resource Home Page \\\\
: //// URL: http://www.sils.umich.edu/~plefr/HomePage2.html \\\\
--
________________________________________________________________________
___ __ __
________| ___ ____________|___ _________\___________
/ || | \_/| |___ / | _ || /|| / | / | \ |
\_||/| | _| | / | | / ||_/ || | | \ | / |
/ | | | \__/ |_/ \_ |_/\ | || \__| / | \__|
/\ __/ *
\/\
_______________________________________________________________________
100 Bleecker Street, Apt. #7C, New York, NY 10012.
Tel: (212) 979-6466 Fax: (212) 995-4094
Indranil DasGupta
: I forgot to mention in my last post that Suman had also been to
: Phuleswar (where Kanoria Jute Mill is located) several times to
: lend his personal moral support to the KJM workers. Further, he
: sang for and with the workers at the mill to keep up their
: spirits.
: Someone once said "It is easy to give money, it is much harder
: to give oneself." Suman has not only raised money by doing
: benefit programs for the KJM workers, but he has also given
: himself to them. This is a sign of his commitment to the
: principles that he sings in his songs.
: -Sayan.
At the surface this looks like an ideal symbiotic relationship. But only
time will tell if both parties gained.
Indranil.
Apratim Sarkar
>In <4di597$1...@news.bu.edu> sude...@bu.edu (Sudeshna Das) writes:
>> Eta byaktigata matamat, na absolute truth?
>
>Somoshya , er uttor dite gele rajnoitik dolgulor party program jante
>hobe , ontoto pokshe makuder karjokolap o podhotti study korte hobe,
>oboshyo ta korte gele serious howa dorkar , hoi porashuno and/or
>onudhabon kora dorkar.
Thik achhe, parashuno kore eshe tarpar bolo. Question-ta
bhobishyat'r jonye jama roilo.
>> Wait, Suman Bam ki Dan, ta niye amar kono matamat nei. Tumi
>be-line'e
>> chole jachchho Soumitra. Suman CPM'r stage gaile tabe ki chokhe
>take
>> dekha uchit ta niye to ami kichhu bolini, geyechhe ki gaini sheta
>> niyei amar proshno chhilo.
>>
>
>Er uttor onek agei diyechi , ota CPMer stage noi. seta Gononatyo
>songher ek ta program ar college unioner dwitwiyo program . Ei dutotei
>bohu CPM birodhi loko achen , tara ekebare khub kormi levelo na .
>Dinobondhu Andrews Colleger SFI porichalito hoto ekta shomoie Azisul
>Huq der netritye , oto sohoj bhabe uttor hoi na .
Takhan Ajijulbabu'r purono party'r membership chhilo ki? Jodi
thake, onar birodhita swatteo uni purono party'r-i lok. Dekho,
amaer shoja proshno, shoja uttor pelei lyata chuke jai - ami
tar theke ki conclusion draw korbo sheta amar. Lok'r detailed
position analysis kore amar stance-ti tomake thik kore dite to
ami bolini; ar tumi sheti na karar chesta korlei ami badhito hoi.
Tomar shange tothyo niye katha hochchhilo, bichar niye noi. Eta
ki pranjol kore bujhiye dete perechhi?
>Amar uttor chilo oi
>Arnab er montobbe "dekhe sune Suman ke MAku bolei mone Hoi" Amar ekhon
>dharona hochye Arnab MAku bolte jabotiyo bamponthider bujhiyechilo
>hoito.
Hoito tai, ke jane? Tabe tumi na jeneshune jhat kore ekta khisti
diye boshle, eta kemon holo balo? Anekta tomar o-i Suman'r public'r
shamne nake kNada'r motoi na bhebechinte. Jai hok, Arnabbabu'r kachhe
khyama cheye nao, taholei habe - bondhubhabe e-i amar tomake
advice.
>> Tomar uporakto matamat-ti absolute truth hole, tumi thik-i
>bolechho.
>
>Ei Absolute Truth byapar ta ki bujhi na , er uttore Sayaner boktobyo
>khub porishkar . Adau absolute truth byaparta konorokom mental
>construct er abhidhanik ortheo pore kina proshno achye...
Shetai to amaro proshno. Sayan bollo Soumitra absolute truth
mane na. Tumio guru anekta she line-i, ekhane. Kintu gyan jakhan
dao khisti khasta mere, takhan nijer byaktigata matamatguli
to ekebare absolute truth'r bolchho jeno, e-i gambhirje balo.
Apratim.
--
No doubt the world is entirely an Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
imaginary world, but it is only once are my own and shouldn't be construed in
removed from the true world. any way to represent that of my employer.
- Isaac Bashevis Singer.
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4djf0q$r...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> In article <SHUBU.96J...@providence.cs.wisc.edu>, Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>>
>> There have been too many accusations against Suman. It is very hard
>> to believe that he is not responsible for some of them.
SB> Suppose I and some others get together and post one post a day on
SB> s.c.b., saying that "Shubu steals other people's clothes from washing
SB> machines.". By your logic, if we accuse you a sufficient number of times,
SB> that is enough to convince others that you do actually steal clothes,
SB> right?
Its the people who accuses that matters (i.e. not you). For Suman
this includes the police and newspapers. His vulgar behavior in
public adds to the fuel.
-Shubu
Soumitra Bose
(Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>In article <4dcuj1$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>>In article <4dcpa3$t...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
>>sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>>
>>>program" for the striking Kanoria jute mill workers.
>>
>>Phuleswar (where Kanoria Jute Mill is located) several times to
>>lend his personal moral support to the KJM workers. Further, he
>>sang for and with the workers at the mill to keep up their
>>spirits.
>>
>>Someone once said "It is easy to give money, it is much harder
>>to give oneself." Suman has not only raised money by doing
>>benefit programs for the KJM workers, but he has also given
>>himself to them. This is a sign of his commitment to the
>>principles that he sings in his songs.
>
>
>>-Sayan.
>
> Apratim.
>
> PS: Katakkha'ta tomake, Sayan, Suman'ke noi. Amar to shobi
> shona khabor, Suamn'r e-i kaaj'ti kintu proshongsharho bolei
> amar mone hoi. Kintu tumi ki Julia Roberts'ke Suman'r level'e
> rakhbe?
>
>
>
>
>No doubt the world is entirely an Disclaimer: The opinions
expressed are
>imaginary world, but it is only once are my own and shouldn't be
construed in
>removed from the true world. any way to represent that of my
employer.
Julia Roberts Haiti te nijer naam chorate gechilo , activist hishebe
noi. Suman seta korechen ,gan sekhane ekta chotto ongsho.Doinondin
andolone ar panchjon activister moto lorai korechen .policer lathio
poreche , tar birudhe na jowar huliao chilo.
sayan bhattacharyya
Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>
>Its the people who accuses that matters (i.e. not you). For Suman
>this includes the police and newspapers. His vulgar behavior in
>public adds to the fuel.
Unless the newspapers are hiring private detectives to investigate Suman
(which I doubt), they are merely reporting the police's accusations.
So the accusers of Suman are only the police. Since you seem to think
that a police force as corruption-riddled as Calcutta Police is the
only entity that "matters", I have nothing more to say.
Incidentally, someone posted a while ago that Suman has allegedly
"confessed" his crime. I asked for the date of this so-called confession
(since I have in my possession a tape dating from August 1995 in which Suman
denies having made any phone calls). No one has responded so far. What
am I to conclude from this?
-Sayan.
-Sayan.
Sudeshna Das
: In article <4dc97i$e...@inet-nntp-gw-1.us.oracle.com>, asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
: > In article <4dc67u$6...@eclair4.cs.cornell.edu> ba...@cs.cornell.edu (Anindya Basu) writes:
: > >why does x-windows take such a $%^&* long time to compile?
: >
: > Try DLLs in MS-Windows. the fun begins there. :-)
: ms-windows? MS-WINDOWS? now why would i waste my time on that shit? linux rules,
: folks!
DNarao mama, age industry'te dhoko. Amon to amiyo grad school'e
thakte ... ekhon amar group'r 100% customer o-i platform'e. (Keno,
amai jigiyo na. ;-))
MS-windows ekti bichitro jantor, sheti gato deR mash dhore haRe haRe
upolobdhi korchhi .....
Linux download kara jai kotha theke bolte paro? Amar ek bondhu
cheyechhe, deshe niye jetam. Email koro - asa...@us.oracle.com'e.
: -anindya
Apratim.
sayan bhattacharyya
Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
> Ta ja bolechhen. Ekebarey shahosh hoi na. Kintu connection'ta
>to bujhlam na. Apni ki boltey chaichhen je jehetu Suman Nicaragua'tey
>morenni, ar ami morar cheshtao korini, tai Suman Kolkatar stage'ey kichhu
>korley amar tai niyey kichhu bola uchit noi?
This was in connection with a subthread started by Apratim in which he
compared Suman's visits to Kanoria Jute Mill to the tour of Haiti by someone
called Julia Roberts .
>Suman'er katha shunley amar'o sherokom monet hoi.
~~~~~
Aren't you going only by impression (pun unintended) here? :-)
>Srabani
-Sayan.
Apratim Sarkar
>In article <4du2kr$l...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Ta ja bolechhen. Ekebarey shahosh hoi na. Kintu connection'ta
>>to bujhlam na. Apni ki boltey chaichhen je jehetu Suman Nicaragua'tey
>>morenni, ar ami morar cheshtao korini, tai Suman Kolkatar stage'ey kichhu
>>korley amar tai niyey kichhu bola uchit noi?
>
>This was in connection with a subthread started by Apratim in which he
>compared Suman's visits to Kanoria Jute Mill to the tour of Haiti by someone
>called Julia Roberts .
Tahole to amakeo field'e namte hoi. Balo to Sayan
1. Suman'r Nicaragua'te kirtikalap'r Suman'r boi-ti chhaRa ar
kono independent evidence achhe? Jigesh korchhi e-i karone, tumi
to Suman'r against'e Kolkata press ja bole shab kichhutei num kam
dekho, kintu Suman'r case'e ta noi keno? Eta ki "holy cow" syndrome?
Again, katakkho-ta tomake - Suman'ke noi.
2. Suman jodi minefield'e hNete asha'r poreo mature na kore, event'r
relative importance guliye fele pNach bachhar'r bachchha'r moto
public anusthane kNadte shuru kare, tabe bodhhai o'r mental bayesh
chirodin-i o-i pNach, tai Nicaragua'te giye mine field'e hNatte
hNatte bujhte pareni fete jete pare. Dekho, amaon ekta experience
kothai lok'ke mature, stitodhi korbe, ta noi ekhono lok'e kothakar
kon reporter ki bollo tai niye public'r shamne chillachchhe. Satyajit
to mine field'e hNaten ni - kintu uni Rudramoshai'ke ja bala'r thik'i
bolte prechhilen uttejito na hoye. Maturity'r byapar. Er theke amar
dharona, Suman megalomaniac. Ar, megalomaniac'ra bejai mithyebadi hoi.
Tai, tumi amake ekta-duto independent corroboration ene dao Suman'r
Nicaragua porjai'r, tabe bishwas'r byapar othe. Age otheni, Suman'r
kathai jathesto chhilo, karam Suman je megalomaniac sheta jana chhilo
na.
3. Ar jodi shotti-i hoi, tabe kato Contra'o to minefield'e mara gechhe.
Tader'o tumi nishchoi Suman'r motoi shroddha'r chokhe dekho?
>-Sayan.
Apratim.
--
No doubt the world is entirely an Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
imaginary world, but it is only once are my own and shouldn't be construed in
removed from the true world. any way to represent that of my employer.
- Isaac Bashevis Singer.
sayan bhattacharyya
Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>
> 1. Suman'r Nicaragua'te kirtikalap'r Suman'r boi-ti chhaRa ar
> kono independent evidence achhe?
I do not have any other independent evidence (which is not to say
that other independent evidence does or does not exist).
People I know who have known Suman pretty closely confirm that he did
resign from his job as broadcaster at Voice of America (a job he had
taken to earn dollars to buy musical equipment for the Bengali music
group he envisaged forming after returning to Calcutta) in the
eighties, in order to go to Nicaragua.
Now, in the eighties Nicaragua was a war zone -- there was
a civil war raging between the Sandinistas and the U.S. -backed contras
who were operating from Honduras. This was the infamous "dirty war"
for which Oliver North was laundering Iranian money in the iran-contra
affair. It is an incontrovertible documented fact that there were
hundreds of thousands of casualties in the Nicaraguan civil war. No
place in Nicaragua was safe at this time from guerilla attacks and
sabotage by the contras.
That being the case, the very fact that Suman chose to go to Nicaragua,
a war zone, voluntarily giving up his comfortable job, says to me
something about his courage and conviction. All eyewitness accounts
of Nicaragua in that period that I have read have speak of the fact
that roads were mined right and left by the contras during this period.
Thus although I have no direct evidence of the veracity of Suman's
statement, I do have pretty strong circumstantial evidence that he
was speaking the truth.
> 2. Suman jodi minefield'e hNete asha'r poreo mature na kore, event'r
> relative importance guliye fele pNach bachhar'r bachchha'r moto
> public anusthane kNadte shuru kare,
Apratim, I am curious to know if you have attended any public
performance by Suman yourself.
I have been to several, and in none have I seen him "whine" as you suggest.
The word I would use for what he does, is "lash out".
> 3. Ar jodi shotti-i hoi, tabe kato Contra'o to minefield'e mara gechhe.
> Tader'o tumi nishchoi Suman'r motoi shroddha'r chokhe dekho?
>
The contras were hired thugs in the payroll of the USA. They were paid
agents in the dirty war. Suman, however, had no call to go to Nicaragua
and he did not get paid for doing so. In fact he could have held on to
the cushy little job as VOA broadcaster and stayed on in the USA if he
wanted to. Thus his action was selfless, which the action of the contras
was not.
-Sayan.
Apratim Sarkar
>In article <4di597$1...@news.bu.edu>, Sudeshna Das <sude...@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Suman CPM'r stage gaile tabe ki chokhe take
>> dekha uchit ta niye to ami kichhu bolini, geyechhe ki gaini sheta
>> niyei amar proshno chhilo.
>>
>
>A stage whose wood was supplied by CPI(M) members? Or carpenters who
>built the stage were CPI(M) workers? If a college union is run by the
>SFI (elected through democratic elections) and this union then organizes
>a college function (not a union function), then does the podium become
>a "CPI(M) podium"?
My interpretation (not a definition) of CPM'r stage:
A stage where a program is taking place, the program being organized
under the banner of an organization (1) whose mainstream political
philosophies are endorsed by the mainstream theoriticians and policy
makers of the CPI(M) party in their official capacities and (2) which
draws it's support, political, organizational, financial or otherwise
from the same, or under the official banner of CPI(M) itself.
BTW, Sayan, won't you agree that it looks bad if one accuses others of
being literalists in one debate and then him/herself does the same in
another?
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4dq213$o...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> In article <SHUBU.96J...@providence.cs.wisc.edu>, Shubu Mukherjee <sh...@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
>> Its the people who accuses that matters (i.e. not you). For Suman
>> this includes the police and newspapers. His vulgar behavior in
>> public adds to the fuel.
SB> Unless the newspapers are hiring private detectives to investigate Suman
SB> (which I doubt), they are merely reporting the police's accusations.
SB> So the accusers of Suman are only the police.
Excellent ___assumptions___ Sayan-babu!! The Calcutta press is a
schmuck, Calcutta police is corrupted, and Suman Chatterjee is the
Moses of modern Bengal!
Butts off to you (in Suman Chatterjee's language)!!
-Shubu
PS: Check out the NewsTrack videos that should be available in your
library. These may change your views about the Indian press.
Srabani Banerjee
>In article <4dsn1t$7...@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
>Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Lokta to Nicaraguate more jete parto , sekhane giye moha rightist Suman
>>manusher kache elo.
>This is true. Suman has written how it happened so many times during
>his stay in Nicaragua that local Sandinista officials would come and
>warn him "Comrade, sabdhane jaben, ei rastay mine pata aachhe" (the
>mines having been laid by the U.S.-backed contras). So Suman literally
>put his life on the line many times by walking through minefields just
>because he cared about his principles. How many of the cynical and
>smirking posters who cast snide aspersions on Suman in this newsgroup
>would have had the courage to risk their life in a similar way?
>-Sayan.
Ta ja bolechhen. Ekebarey shahosh hoi na. Kintu connection'ta
to bujhlam na. Apni ki boltey chaichhen je jehetu Suman Nicaragua'tey
morenni, ar ami morar cheshtao korini, tai Suman Kolkatar stage'ey kichhu
korley amar tai niyey kichhu bola uchit noi?
Ar ekta katha shahosh korey bolei pheli,apni jemon Bangla khabarer
kagaj dekhen `with a pinch of salt', Suman'er katha shunley amar'o sherokom
monet hoi.Cynical hoata amader janmogato odhikar, ki bolun?
Srabani
Soumitra Bose
(sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>In article <4ds5fu$c...@news.bu.edu>, Sudeshna Das <sude...@bu.edu>
wrote:
>>
>> Poshchimbanger bartaman mukhyamantree'o to e shobi bohu din
>> dhoe korechhen. Takeo tabe tumi nishchoi Suman'r motoi shroddha
>> karo?
>
>
>Ponchasher doshoke jokhon Communist Party banned chhilo ebong Jyoti
Basu
>underground activist hishebe polatok theke organizational work korten,
>setar jonye t(N)ake shrodhha kori boi ki | Yes, he changed colors
later on.
>But I think it is important to recognize that no one is completely
black or
>completely white. Everyone is a shade of grey.
>
>
>> Dekho, ami thik bujhte parchhi na Suman emon ki korechhen
>> ja kina abahaman kal'r dhandabaaj political activist'ra nijer
>> kaaj gochhate na kore ashchhe, keno tomra oke alada chokhe dekho.
>> Ektu bujhiye dao na guru? Rajnoitik gimmick dekhlei amar
kemontaro
>> sandeho hoi ...
>
>You forget that Suman is not a politician. He does not contest
elections.
>Going to Kanoria and putting his back on the line to face police
laTHis
>would not buy him any votes. It would not even help sell his albums.
So
>why did he do it, if not for his beliefs?
>
>-Sayan.
>
>
>
Jyoti babu "wnet underground " and stayed in the house of Kiranshankar
Roy's house , the same person who implemented the ban and in whose
insistence Communist Party was banned (though it was vehemently but
vainly opposed by Nehru).
sayan bhattacharyya
sayan bhattacharyya
Sambit Basu
>"BEsh kyokdin dhore biblobi thaka ek jinish ar sara jobon dhore biplobi
>thaka ar ek jinish " e montobnboke extrapolate kore biplobi r jaigai
>jodi protibadok dhora jai , tahole 62 r pore Jyoti babu ar seta koren
>ni. Suman ekhono korecholeche , dekha jai kotodin kore,,,,asha chere
>debo keno.
Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>RAjnoitik gimmick pete gele Suman onek atmoprocharer moddhye
>diye jete parten , jeta prothom theke Salil babu korechilen ,
Jamon? Sumanbabu kirokom atMoprochar-er alo-t modhye
diye jete parten, jeta Salilbabu korechhilen?
>Unio
>Communist party member chilen , Nirmolendur moto konodin whole-timer
>chilen na , konodin abscond koren ni, khub komi grame thekechilen.
Soumitrababu apni thik janen Salilbabu konodin abscond
koren ni? (Amar kaachhe onyo tothyo chhilo. apni jodi apnar
tothyer utsho-ti janan tobe sheti khNuje amar bhul info.-ti
shudhre nite pari. Dhonyobaad.) Sumanbabu korechhen? Aar
sangskritik biplob korar akta pre-requisite biplobi-ke abscond
korte hobe sheta kothay lekha aachhe Soumitrababu?
[...]
In another post:
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>Lokta to Nicaraguate more jete parto , sekhane giye moha rightist Suman
>>manusher kache elo.
>This is true.
[...]
>So Suman literally
>put his life on the line many times by walking through minefields just
>because he cared about his principles. How many of the cynical and
>smirking posters who cast snide aspersions on Suman in this newsgroup
>would have had the courage to risk their life in a similar way?
>-Sayan.
Sayan, as far as I am concern, I don't have anything to say
about Suman's politics. He might be a very staunch and
focussed person to his ideas. My whole point is that, his
political views and his ability (or lack of it) to stick
to them do not make him a better or worse musical personality,
nor do they make his rendition of Rabindrasangeet better
or worse.
Regards,
Sambit
Sudeshna Das
: Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
: >
: > 1. Suman'r Nicaragua'te kirtikalap'r Suman'r boi-ti chhaRa ar
: > kono independent evidence achhe?
: I do not have any other independent evidence (which is not to say
: that other independent evidence does or does not exist).
[...]
: Thus although I have no direct evidence of the veracity of Suman's
: statement, I do have pretty strong circumstantial evidence that he
: was speaking the truth.
So, circumstantial evidence is acceptable in this case? Nun kam
ekebarei poReni? Again, Sayan, a question that you sidetracked last
time, is this prompt acceptance of circumstantial evidence favoring
Suman and rejection of that against Suman sympotamatic of hero
worship on your part?
: > 2. Suman jodi minefield'e hNete asha'r poreo mature na kore, event'r
: > relative importance guliye fele pNach bachhar'r bachchha'r moto
: > public anusthane kNadte shuru kare,
: Apratim, I am curious to know if you have attended any public
: performance by Suman yourself.
No.
: I have been to several, and in none have I seen him "whine" as you suggest.
My comments were made after reading your post where you described
how Suman acted in that one particular performance with quotations.
All my comments are about that one performance, based on your
narration. Don't tell me that it was wrong on my part to depend on
your narration, that you misrepresented facts, in which case I have to
reconsider my opinion!
: The word I would use for what he does, is "lash out".
Well, five year old kids also "lash out", often inappropriately.
Then they are disciplined for that.
: > 3. Ar jodi shotti-i hoi, tabe kato Contra'o to minefield'e mara gechhe.
: > Tader'o tumi nishchoi Suman'r motoi shroddha'r chokhe dekho?
: >
: The contras were hired thugs in the payroll of the USA. They were paid
: agents in the dirty war.
Not all Contras. Regardless of whether you like their philosophy
or not, coloring them all in a broad stroke of your brush as hired
thugs is immature. The Contras were figthing to seize power just
as the Sandinistas were to preserve it. As for your comments regarding
selflessness and such, remember that the Sandinistas were fighting
to save their own skins, too. And, hence, their action was no more
selfless than that of the Contras.
: Suman, however, had no call to go to Nicaragua
: and he did not get paid for doing so. In fact he could have held on to
: the cushy little job as VOA broadcaster and stayed on in the USA if he
: wanted to. Thus his action was selfless, which the action of the contras
: was not.
Aha, but all we have in that front is circumstantial evidence,
right, Sayan?
: -Sayan.
Apratim.
sayan bhattacharyya
>
> Again, Sayan, a question that you sidetracked last
> time, is this prompt acceptance of circumstantial evidence favoring
> Suman and rejection of that against Suman sympotamatic of hero
> worship on your part?
I don't think there is much circumstantial evidence against Suman (I
presume you are talking about the telephone call incident). As a matter
of fact the circumstantial evidence in that incident actually favors
Suman (the two pieces of circumstantial evidence I have in mind are
(1) that Suman is highly critical of the WB government and it is in
the interest of the WB government to make him look bad, and (2) Calcutta
Police is a highly corrupt as well as a highly politicized organization
that often takes its orders from Alimuddin Street rather than
from Lalbazar.
> My comments were made after reading your post where you described
> how Suman acted in that one particular performance with quotations.
My quotations were all from the interview published in "Arobdho" magazine,
and they were on the issue of Rabindrasangeet. I did not __quote__ anything
from the concert, I merely reported it. Please reread my posts.
Here is, NOW, an exact quote from the concert, which I have on tape :
Ami telephone tule kauke galagal diy na. Ami samnasamni diye
thaki! (laughter from audience) Telephone tule kauke bola (Suman
starts speaking in a funny , nyaka-nyaka voice) "ei, toke marbo",
"ei, apnake bhishon marbo" eisob bola amar dhormo noy (massive
laughter from audience).
Etogulo kagoj, etogulo protishthan mile jodi EKTA lok-ke chup
koriye na dite pare, tobe bhebe dekhun bodhura -- amra sokole
jodi songoTHito hoi, tahole desh koto unnoto hobe. Eta bishesh
kore amar onurodh -- apnader modhye amar onujprotim, emonki amar
sontanprotim jara royechhe -- tader kachhe. SongoTHito hoy bondhura,
bhalo lokera songoTHito hon !
Oneke amake bolen, jesob chhoto chhoto chhelemeyera amar
onushTHan dekhte ase, eishob kotha bole tader samne ami ki drishTanto
sthapon korchhi? Ami jani ami khub ekta bhalo dristTanto sthapon
korchhi na. Kintu tara ontoto dekhuk je ekta lok samne dNaRiye
rag korcche! (applause from audience)
Hardly sounds like someone who is whining, don't you agree? (By the way,
you and other netters can obtain a copy of this live concert, which has
some inspired songs including the great "america probasee bangalir gaan"
which every expatriate bengali IMHO ought to listen to, by writing to
Sudipto Chatterjee who occasionally posts on this newsgroup, in return
for a small fee. I bought it from Sudipto myself and it is money well spent.
Sudipto is selling these cassettes with Suman's permission to raise money
for the documentary film he is making.)
> Not all Contras. Regardless of whether you like their philosophy
> or not, coloring them all in a broad stroke of your brush as hired
> thugs is immature. The Contras were figthing to seize power just
> as the Sandinistas were to preserve it. As for your comments regarding
> selflessness and such, remember that the Sandinistas were fighting
> to save their own skins, too. And, hence, their action was no more
> selfless than that of the Contras.
>
Agreed, but we were not discussing sandinistas versus contras; we were
discussing Suman versus contras, i.e. whether they deseve the same
respect (which was the question you asked).
__Suman__ did not HAVE to go to Nicaragua unless he wanted to,
because he was not a sandinista and so he did not have the moive for
preserving power for himself. So Suman's action is selfless whereas
that of the contras (and yes, the sandinistas too) was not.
>: Suman, however, had no call to go to Nicaragua
>: and he did not get paid for doing so. In fact he could have held on to
>: the cushy little job as VOA broadcaster and stayed on in the USA if he
>: wanted to. Thus his action was selfless, which the action of the contras
>: was not.
>
> Aha, but all we have in that front is circumstantial evidence,
> right, Sayan?
I really don't understand you here. Are you saying that Suman never
went to Nicaragua? That the whole story of his visit to Nicaragua was
a lie and a fabrication? Perhaps he was really hiding in Bhowanipore
all the time, eh?
If this is what you are suggesting, then I have to say that your
imagination is as prolific as that of the Michigan Militia which
thinks that the U.N. is about to take over the U.S. :-)
-Sayan.
Debashis Bhattacharya
.. deleted ...
> MS-windows ekti bichitro jantor, sheti gato deR mash dhore haRe haRe
> upolobdhi korchhi .....
>
> Linux download kara jai kotha theke bolte paro? Amar ek bondhu
> cheyechhe, deshe niye jetam. Email koro - asa...@us.oracle.com'e.
>
There is a fairly complete version of Linux at ftp.uu.net.
Debashis.
saugata basu
: A few comments of mine on this Suman Chatterjee-Calcutta Pride thread:
: (i) I wouldn't fault Sayan for being circumspect of the news provided
: by the newpapers like Aajkaal and Anandabazar. From my own experience
: reportings of a few incidents of which I had first hand knowledge of or
: on personalities whom I happen to know in personal life I had found
: that Aajkaal and Anandabazaar did provide news which are either half
: truths or scurrilous writings bordering to yellow journalism. A notable
i had read those reports and i don't think they constituted yellow
journalism in any sense. it is difficult to extract information about
ragging from an iit hostel as we all know -- and as far as i remember the
reports always quoted students who described the episodes. thats as much
a reporter can do. i am not saying that ab or ajkal are apostles of truth.
but in this particular matter i think they did a good public service.
....
: those engineering students who had goes to residential institutions
: are nothing short of barbarians and commits inhuman crimes in the name
: of ragging. But again there were a very few who did resort to extremes
^^^^^^^^
: in the name of ragging and deserves none's sympathy and who should be
: summarily expelled from the institutions. But those few students' wrong
this "very few" is pure nonsense. in the late eighties i would say more than
50% of the ug population in iit kgp campus engaged in ragging which were
quite inhuman by my standards.
...
: (ii) Neither however I would condone Mr. Suman Chatterjee's behavior on
: a public stage if he indeed resorted to showing his 'poschadesh' to the
: audience. And his comments on being called of Uncle instead of kaku
: by that little girl who was rebuked by Mr. Chatterjee as being anglicized
: is a tragic case of intellectual bankruptcy of Mr. Chatterjee and the
: body of leftist intellectuals that he is a representative of..If I were
: there I would definitely asked him that 'did he never wore a pair of
: trousers ?? or used a guitar in his music or subscribed to a political
: ideology which owes its roots to England and Germany??' I mean
: what type of dualism (read hypocrisy) is this?
can you explain to me how a single alleged act of sc becomes a "tragic
case of ..." of a whole body of people that you claim sc is representing ?
: (iii) Calcutta's /WB/ Eastern India's pride of the 90's and next century
: are Arvind Agarwalla of the Vedika (FACT) fame, Swraj Paul of the
: Caparo group of industries, Dr. Chatterji of the Soros group, Vinod
: Gupta of AIB (?) or even Dr. Shankar Sen the Power Minister..these
: are the people who are bringing in jobs and capital back to Bengal
: and actively participating in the process of industrial rejuvenation
: of Bengal. They would be the ones who would be catalyst in the well-
: being of the common man...not some itsy-bitsy lazy intellectual whose contribution to Bengal's future is next to nothing. Mr. Suman Chatterjee
: probably would have been Calcutta's pride in the fifties but sorry not
: in the '90s..or maybe I should rephrase it saying he may be a pride to
: some aatels (or pontels ;-)) but not to many others like me.
^^^^ ^^^^
is the words "some" juxtaposed with the "many" used later in the
sentence supposed to convey some quantitative comparison ?
what exactly do you mean by "contributing to Bengal's future" ?
does one needs to be rich or be a minister to contribute to Bengal's
future ? do you think that one can be a singer and an intellectual
and still contribute to Bengal's future, or is that impossible ?
what about being a poet, mathematician or a historian ?
or is Bengal better off in the future without such people?
is it because suman is "itsy-bitsy lazy" that he cannot contribute to
Bengal's future or there are other reasons behind his inability to
contribute to Bengal's future? should he then start learning some c++
or hot-java to try to contribute to Bengal's future ?
or since vedika software is the only employment opportunity should it be
ms windows95 instead ? he sure does not have enough money to start a
suman chatujje school of management at iit kharagpur or does he ?
:
: Anindya.
saugata.
Sambit Basu
>I don't think there is much circumstantial evidence against Suman (I
>presume you are talking about the telephone call incident). As a matter
>of fact the circumstantial evidence in that incident actually favors
>Suman (the two pieces of circumstantial evidence I have in mind are
>(1) that Suman is highly critical of the WB government and it is in
>the interest of the WB government to make him look bad, and (2) Calcutta
>Police is a highly corrupt as well as a highly politicized organization
>that often takes its orders from Alimuddin Street rather than
>from Lalbazar.
Taar maane akhon "aajkaal" aar Sumanbabu jodi contradictory
kotha bolen, ta'le tumi "aajkaal"-er kotha mene nebe; kanona
"aajkaal" is highly critical of Suman. Taito?
>__Suman__ did not HAVE to go to Nicaragua unless he wanted to,
>because he was not a sandinista and so he did not have the moive for
>preserving power for himself. So Suman's action is selfless whereas
>that of the contras (and yes, the sandinistas too) was not.
Amon-ta jodi hoy je Sumanbabu boi-lekha-r roshod jogaD
korte gechhilen, je boi chhapa hole ortho hobe, josh
hobe? Ta'le-o ki kaaj-ta selfless thaake? Again these
are not to question Sumanbabu's actions, but your line
of logic.
BTW, did you get a chance to check whether Sumanbabu resigned
from his VOA job to go to Nicaragua?
And as you are a self-employed referee on SCB, especially
regarding these matters, would you mind asking Soumitrababu
the questions about Salilbabu and Sumanbabu that I'd asked him
a few days back? Thank you.
>-Sayan.
Regards,
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
>"BEsh kyokdin dhore biblobi thaka ek jinish ar sara jobon dhore biplobi
>thaka ar ek jinish " e montobnboke extrapolate kore biplobi r jaigai
>jodi protibadok dhora jai , tahole 62 r pore Jyoti babu ar seta koren
>ni. Suman ekhono korecholeche , dekha jai kotodin kore,,,,asha chere
>diye jete parten , jeta prothom theke Salil babu korechilen , Unio
>Communist party member chilen , Nirmolendur moto konodin whole-timer
>chilen na , konodin abscond koren ni, khub komi grame thekechilen.
>aro sudure chute jeten na , tao nijer riske . HAi(n) Sumano ge9N)jiye
>jete pare , tobe jotodin na jai , totodin keno amra asha rakhbo na .
>Lokta to Nicaraguate more jete parto , sekhane giye moha rightist Suman
>mante parlen na , ekhono swapno dekhte o dekhate bhalobashen , ei
>bha(n)tar shomoie , setai gurutwopurno, ar setai parthokko.
Asha, faith, eshob niye alochana kore labh nei. Particularly jakhan
amar cynicism dinke din baRchhe. Ta ta Soumitra. Tomar (ishwar-)
bishwas niye tumi thako. Suman'r gNyejiye jaowar lokkhonguli chokh
buje ignore korte thako. Parer dashak'e e niye tomar shange katha habe.
Apratim Sarkar
>In article <4ds5fu$c...@news.bu.edu>, Sudeshna Das <sude...@bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Poshchimbanger bartaman mukhyamantree'o to e shobi bohu din
>> dhoe korechhen. Takeo tabe tumi nishchoi Suman'r motoi shroddha
>> karo?
>
>
>Ponchasher doshoke jokhon Communist Party banned chhilo ebong Jyoti Basu
>underground activist hishebe polatok theke organizational work korten,
>setar jonye t(N)ake shrodhha kori boi ki | Yes, he changed colors later on.
>But I think it is important to recognize that no one is completely black or
>completely white. Everyone is a shade of grey.
Uh-huh? Only shareholders of multi-nationals are completely black,
right? (Tomar purono kichhu post'r ullekh'e, ekhon defensive keno
guru?)
>> Dekho, ami thik bujhte parchhi na Suman emon ki korechhen
>> ja kina abahaman kal'r dhandabaaj political activist'ra nijer
>> kaaj gochhate na kore ashchhe, keno tomra oke alada chokhe dekho.
>> Ektu bujhiye dao na guru? Rajnoitik gimmick dekhlei amar kemontaro
>> sandeho hoi ...
>
>You forget that Suman is not a politician. He does not contest elections.
>Going to Kanoria and putting his back on the line to face police laTHis
>would not buy him any votes.
Agreed.
>It would not even help sell his albums. So
>why did he do it, if not for his beliefs?
Are you positive? Tell me, honestly, didn't Suman's political gimmicks
influence you at least partially when patronizing his music?
Suman, IMO, would rather sell cassettes than win elections and/or bring
about social change. So ...
>-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
Sambit Basu <sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Sayan, as far as I am concern, I don't have anything to say
> about Suman's politics. He might be a very staunch and
> focussed person to his ideas. My whole point is that, his
> political views and his ability (or lack of it) to stick
> to them do not make him a better or worse musical personality,
> nor do they make his rendition of Rabindrasangeet better
> or worse.
>
Quite true. That was not what I was saying, either. The two things are
completely orthogonal. The only reason I brought this up was because
Apratim compared Suman's visit to Kanoria Jute Mill to some singer's
tour of Haiti, which he called self-promotional.
-Sayan.
Anindya Basu
In article <4dlf4t$h...@athos.cc.bellcore.com>, ra...@ctt.bellcore.com
(Rajiv Shukla) writes:
>> why does x-windows take such a $%^&* long time to compile?
>
> What is "x-windows" ? A technical person like you should know that it's
> ^
> "X Window" or "X" if I understand you correctly. An amazing number of
> technical people seem to make the same mistake, I wonder why!
who cares? everybody knows what i mean - in that sense it is unambiguous.
so take off your nit-picking hat, will you? :-)
> Rajiv
>
> P.S Once I read a book on X Window system administration where the author
> mentioned that he usually got furious when people used to say "x windows",
> according to him that one mistake proved the concerned person knew nothing
> about "X".
this author must have been one of those anal-retentive bozos who i really
dislike. and if, according to such a loser, i know nothing about x-windows,
so be it!
-anindya
Sambit Basu
>In <4du0sp$4...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Sambit
>Basu) writes:
>>
>>Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>jodi protibadok dhora jai , tahole 62 r pore Jyoti babu ar seta koren
>>>ni. Suman ekhono korecholeche , dekha jai kotodin kore,,,,asha chere
>>>debo keno.
>>
>> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
Apni moshai ato ghuriye naak dekhaan kano bolun to? Boi-te
aachhe aami-o jaani. Tothyo niye ekhane kotha hochchhe na,
kotha hochchhe apnar perception of "biplob" ebong "biplobi"
niye. Akta hNya ba na uttor dite ato deyala korchhen kano?
>>>RAjnoitik gimmick pete gele Suman onek atmoprocharer moddhye
>>>diye jete parten , jeta prothom theke Salil babu korechilen ,
>>
>> Jamon? Sumanbabu kirokom atMoprochar-er alo-t modhye
>> diye jete parten, jeta Salilbabu korechhilen?
>>
>Ekjon Communist party r member hoie sei songothoner moncho byobohar
>kore poisha banan ,
Maane apni bolchhen:
1. Party-r moncho byabohaar kore poisa banano mondo. Party-r
moncho byabohaar na kore poisa korle sheta mondo noy.
Sumanbabu SFI projojito o bikrito cassette-e gaan
geye prochar-er aloy aste sahjyo niyechhen - eta
kon dol-e poDbe? hNya ba na uttor-i jotheshtho.
2. Communist party (ebong totsoho "ban howa") bolte apni
nishchoi chollish-ponchaash doshok-er obibhokto communist
party-r kotha bolchhen. Shekhane Salil Chowdhry PC Joshi-r
odhin party-r cultural cell-er sodoshyo chhilen, jekhane
onar _kaaj_-i chhilo gaan bNadha.
3. Salil C sompurno shechchha-y party chhaDen ni, badhyo
hoyechhilen.
>ar ekjon peshadar songitshilpi hoie shramik
>andoloner jonne nijer Anandobazari pithchaprano o HMV r somporko nosto
>koren .
Sumanbabu HMV-ke galagal dite shuru korar por ontoto pNachti
cassette shekhan theke ber korechhen. She somporke apnar
ki boktobyo Soumitrababu?
>>>Unio
>>>Communist party member chilen , Nirmolendur moto konodin whole-timer
>>>chilen na , konodin abscond koren ni, khub komi grame thekechilen.
>>
>> Soumitrababu apni thik janen Salilbabu konodin abscond
>> koren ni? (Amar kaachhe onyo tothyo chhilo. apni jodi apnar
>> tothyer utsho-ti janan tobe sheti khNuje amar bhul info.-ti
>> shudhre nite pari. Dhonyobaad.) Sumanbabu korechhen? Aar
>> sangskritik biplob korar akta pre-requisite biplobi-ke abscond
>> korte hobe sheta kothay lekha aachhe Soumitrababu?
>>
>Salil chowdhury ekta brief periode naki "abscond" chilen.
Er ager posting-e je bollen _konodin_ koren ni? Jene
shune mithye kotha bolchhilen?
>Tobe tokhon
>tini chutiye gan geye berachen kolkatae o gan recording korchen HMV te
> KAngshari halder er kotha unujaii KAkdwipe konodin take dekha jai
>ni(uni kintu tai claim korten jokhon Sapath o Michil lekhen )
>]Kauke abscond hote hoi na mapkathi hishebe .
Jodi na janen, tobe janai je jokhon "Runner" HMV-te
recording hoyechhilo, SC tokhon absconding. Hemantababu-r
nijer porichalonay shei gaan-ti record hoy.
>Tobe Communist party
>banned , shobai undergrounde tokhon Slail babu bohal tobiyote kolkate
>udbastu osbhai gan gaichen ar Somnath hor ekjon chitroshilpi hoieo
>abscond thakte badhyo hochhen.
To? Ritwik Ghatak korechhilen? Onye korechhilen kina
jene to labh nei, apni hothat Salil C aar Suman C-r
absconding history niye bicholito hoye poDlen kina! Bolun to
thik kobe ebong kothay Sumanbabu abscond korechhilen? Bolun
to taar shonge Sumanbabu-r gaaner sangitik somporko kotota?
Irrespective of these discussions, amar kaachhe, Sumanbabu
musical personality hishebe "bhalo, kintu toto bhalo noy,
jotota Salil C"-i hoye thakben.
Regards,
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
> 5. Bhoddorlok-er motamuti poDashuno aachhe (maane
> "amader" theke beshi), ontoto kothabarta-y tai
> protiyomaan koren. Kothay kothay eke-oke-take
> uddhrito korte paaren, post-modernism niye du-kolom
> bolte paaren - maane shob miliye mishiye
> chotokdaar.
Don't tell me je Suman post-modernism'eo achhe!
> Suman-chatukaritay apluto hoye,
> Sambit
Sambit Basu
Taar-o aage tumi je loDe gele Sumanbabu-ke "kolkata-r gorbo"
hishebe protishtha korte, sheta songitshilpi Suman-ke na
raajniti-bishwashi Suman-ke. Duto personality orthogonal je
she kotah tumi-i shwikaar korechho.
Jodi prothom-ta hoy, tobe tumi amay bojhao je sangitikbhabe
Suman-er kon boishithye-r jonne tumi ekotha bolchho.
Aar jodi ditiyo-ta hoy, tobe ami tomay aaro bohu lok dekhiye
debo, jNara ontoto Suman-er moto kothore bishwash raakhen
nijeder raajniti-te. Tader-o taale tumi nishchoi "gourob"
bolbe. Amonki besh kichhu Nazi, jNara mone-praane
"borno-sonkor-birodhira"-y bishwas korten, tader proti-o
tumi nishchoi shei rokom-i gorbo onubhob korbe.
Aar tao jodi na hoy, tobe je sombhabona-ta baaki thakchhe,
ta holo je tomar bishwas aar Suman-er bishwas (rajnoitik)
mile jachchhe bole tumi onake "kolkata-r gourob" bolchho.
Tai jodi hoy, tobe je lok-tar shonge Suman-er rajnoitik
bishwash milbe na, she oi ak-i lok-ke "kolkata-e jonjaal"
bolte paare ebong tumi taar birodhita korte paaro na,
kanona opinion niy (ba Russell-er mot-e, values niye) torko
chole na - ja diye tumi Arnabbabu-r boktobyer birodhita
korchhile.
>-Sayan.
Onyo post-e:
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>Sambit Basu <sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>>
>> VOA-r chakri niye USA-te thaka selfish, kintu gaan geye
>> bikhyato hobar ichchhe,
>Straw man.
>"bikhyato hobar icche" oboshyo-i selish. Kintu --
>"bikhyato hobar ichhe" thekey Suman gan koren, ei assumption-ta
>ki unwarranted noy?
Ami to bhai assumption-ta akhono korini, shudhu jigesh
korchhi "bikhyato hobaar ichchhe"-ta selfish na
selfless.
Ebar ta'le bolo to Suman kano gaan koren? Jodi shudhu
nijer anonder jonne hoy (jeta-o selfish na selfless shei
niye alochona-r obokaash aachhe) tobe to HMV theke
cassette ber korar kono maane nei; nijer baaDi-te boshe
gaile-i paaren, boDojor paDa-r rok-e!
>Accha, tumi ki bolbe Rabindranath-o tahole nischoy bikhyato hobar lobhe,
>nobel prize-er lobhe likhten? jodi na bolo, tahole Suman-er sombondhe
>bolchho keno?
Josholobh boDo lobh, ortholobh-er theke kono ongshe kom noy.
Thakurmoshai sheta bilokkhon janten, ebong tini je er theke
mukto chhilen, erokom-tao jana jay na. Borong tini naki
(Satyajit Ray ba Rabishankar, ba Suman C-r moton na hole-o)
somalochonay besh kator hoye poDten.
>> nijer-chokhe dekhe kouutuhol choritartho korar ichchhe
>> selfless - er rationale-ta janabe?
>>
>Because it is not gaining him any obviously marketable skill that can
>benefit him.
Taar maane bolchho koutuhol choritaartho korar jonye je peep-show
dekhte 42nd street-e jay, aar je koutuhol choritarho korte
Nicara.-y jay, tader as such kono tophat nei! Maane dujonei
selfless.
>-Sayan.
Regards,
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
Basu) writes:
>
>Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
biplobi
>>thaka ar ek jinish " e montobnboke extrapolate kore biplobi r jaigai
>>ni. Suman ekhono korecholeche , dekha jai kotodin kore,,,,asha chere
>>debo keno.
>
> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
>
>>RAjnoitik gimmick pete gele Suman onek atmoprocharer moddhye
>>diye jete parten , jeta prothom theke Salil babu korechilen ,
>
> Jamon? Sumanbabu kirokom atMoprochar-er alo-t modhye
> diye jete parten, jeta Salilbabu korechhilen?
>
Ekjon Communist party r member hoie sei songothoner moncho byobohar
kore poisha banan , ar ekjon peshadar songitshilpi hoie shramik
andoloner jonne nijer Anandobazari pithchaprano o HMV r somporko nosto
koren .
>>Unio
>>Communist party member chilen , Nirmolendur moto konodin whole-timer
>>chilen na , konodin abscond koren ni, khub komi grame thekechilen.
>
> Soumitrababu apni thik janen Salilbabu konodin abscond
> koren ni? (Amar kaachhe onyo tothyo chhilo. apni jodi apnar
> tothyer utsho-ti janan tobe sheti khNuje amar bhul info.-ti
> shudhre nite pari. Dhonyobaad.) Sumanbabu korechhen? Aar
> sangskritik biplob korar akta pre-requisite biplobi-ke abscond
> korte hobe sheta kothay lekha aachhe Soumitrababu?
>
Salil chowdhury ekta brief periode naki "abscond" chilen.Tobe tokhon
tini chutiye gan geye berachen kolkatae o gan recording korchen HMV te
KAngshari halder er kotha unujaii KAkdwipe konodin take dekha jai
ni(uni kintu tai claim korten jokhon Sapath o Michil lekhen )
]Kauke abscond hote hoi na mapkathi hishebe .Tobe Communist party
banned , shobai undergrounde tokhon Slail babu bohal tobiyote kolkate
udbastu osbhai gan gaichen ar Somnath hor ekjon chitroshilpi hoieo
abscond thakte badhyo hochhen.
>
>In another post:
>
>bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>>Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>>Lokta to Nicaraguate more jete parto , sekhane giye moha rightist
Suman
>>>manusher kache elo.
>
>
>>This is true.
>
>[...]
>
>>So Suman literally
>>put his life on the line many times by walking through minefields
just
>>because he cared about his principles. How many of the cynical and
>>smirking posters who cast snide aspersions on Suman in this newsgroup
>>would have had the courage to risk their life in a similar way?
>
>>-Sayan.
>
>
> Sayan, as far as I am concern, I don't have anything to say
> about Suman's politics. He might be a very staunch and
> focussed person to his ideas. My whole point is that, his
> political views and his ability (or lack of it) to stick
> to them do not make him a better or worse musical personality,
> nor do they make his rendition of Rabindrasangeet better
> or worse.
>
> Regards,
> Sambit
>
Sambit Basu
>Sambit, seriously, your logical skills don't seem to be too strong.
>I had expected better from you. Maybe I just over-estimated you
>initially.
Dhomok-ta dile, kintu khub bhebe dile ki?
>>bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>>> Sambit wrote:
--------------------------------------
>>>> My whole point is that, his
>>>> political views and his ability (or lack of it) to stick
>>>> to them do not make him a better or worse musical personality,
>>>> nor do they make his rendition of Rabindrasangeet better
>>>> or worse.
>>>>
>>
>>>Quite true. That was not what I was saying, either. The two things are
>>>completely orthogonal.
--------------------------------------
Given this part of your previous post, by which logic you come
to the conclusion (1) and not (2)? Naki tumi dhore nichchho
jukti-r shonge shonge thought-reading-er-o practice-ta rakha
uchit?
The only reason I brought this up was because
>>>Apratim compared Suman's visit to Kanoria Jute Mill to some singer's
>>>tour of Haiti, which he called self-promotional.
>>
>> Taar-o aage tumi je loDe gele Sumanbabu-ke "kolkata-r gorbo"
>> hishebe protishtha korte, sheta songitshilpi Suman-ke na
>> raajniti-bishwashi Suman-ke. Duto personality orthogonal je
>> she kotah tumi-i shwikaar korechho.
>Sambit, Sambit. Read my words carefully. You were talking about "Suman's
>politics" and "Suman's rendition of Rabindrasangeet". These were the
>two things that I meant as "the two things are completely orthogonal" -- (1)
Jaani tumi shob-i bojho, tobu "musical personality"-r dike
tomar drishti-aakorshon kori.
>But in the above paragraph, you write "songitshilpi suman" ebong
>"raajniti-biswasi suman" ei duto personality orthogonal ta naki ami
>swikar korchhi. -- (2)
>Do you realize your fallacy? (1) and (2) are not equivalent, because
>"suman's rendition of rabindrasangeet" and "sangeetshilpi suman" are
>not the same thing.
Sayan khub thanda poDechhe tomader okhane? Ektu brandy khete
paaro, mogoj-ta jome jaabe na.
Ami bhai kokhon bollum, "suman's rendition of rabindrasangeet
and sangeetshilpi suman" are same. Original post-er "nor do
..." part-ta ki dNaat kyalate likhechhilum?
>Suman's rendition of rabindrasangeet is only a
>subset of his total musical personality. His total musical personality
>is NOT orthogonal to his political personality. He has himself written
>that had he not been to Nicaragua he would not have been able to write
>a line like "darun osombhobe tomake chai".
hobe hoy to!
>( Incidentally, Suman himself does not translate the word "politics" as
>"rajneeti". He (and I too) prefer the word "lokneeti" as the correct
>translation of the word.)
ami je abar raajneeti-i kori.
>> Jodi prothom-ta hoy, tobe tumi amay bojhao je sangitikbhabe
>> Suman-er kon boishithye-r jonne tumi ekotha bolchho.
>>
>> Aar jodi ditiyo-ta hoy, tobe ami tomay aaro bohu lok dekhiye
>> debo, jNara ontoto Suman-er moto kothore bishwash raakhen
>> nijeder raajniti-te.
>Based on what I wrote above, I think you can see that it is neither
>"prothomTa" nor "dwitiyoTa".
Brandy-ta khele? ebar bolo.
>> Aar tao jodi na hoy, tobe je sombhabona-ta baaki thakchhe,
>> ta holo je tomar bishwas aar Suman-er bishwas (rajnoitik)
>> mile jachchhe bole tumi onake "kolkata-r gourob" bolchho.
>I do not deny this. Certainly, whom I call "Kolkatar Gourob" will
>depend on my own Weltanschauung and my views. You have to realize
>that you will get a lot of different answers to who is "Kolkataa-r
>Gourob" depending on the person you ask. For instance, an RSS person
>may say that Shyamaprosad Mukherjee was Calcutta's greatest "gourob".
>Others on this thread have said that Agarwalla of Vedica Software is
>Kolkata-r "greatest gourob". Of course the answers have to depend on
>the world-view of the person giving the answer.
Akshobaar. amar dharona chhilo amra motamuti akta objective
jayga theke alochona kore modhyosthota-y pNouchhobo. Kintu,
tumi ja bolchho, taar ortho holo eta akta opinionated
ideas chalachali; ta'te abar amar akdom interest nei. Kanona
hoyto, tumi onek bujhiye protishtha korle je "Suman mohaan".
Ami shob shune akta opinion-er teer chhNuDe "Suman akta
baal" bole chole gelum. Sheta ki bhalo hoy?
>> Tai jodi hoy, tobe je lok-tar shonge Suman-er rajnoitik
>> bishwash milbe na, she oi ak-i lok-ke "kolkata-e jonjaal"
>> bolte paare
>Paare ; bolchheo to.
Tobe-i bojho, illogical khisti-i jodi korbo, janla khule
neighbour-ke korbo - shorir-o gorom hobe. haat byatha kore
SCB-te type korbo kano?
>> ebong tumi taar birodhita korte paaro na,
>ETa bujhlam na. Why not?
Upore dekhun. Na bujhile arek dose brandy.
>> kanona opinion niy (ba Russell-er mot-e, values niye) torko
>> chole na - ja diye tumi Arnabbabu-r boktobyer birodhita
>> korchhile.
>Tumi ektu guliye phelchho byaparTa. Suppose your neighbour is a
>communalist and during a riot, is urging local people to kill Muslims.
>That is his "values", his "subjctive opinion". So will you just stand
>back and let him do what he pleases, saying "values niye torko chole
>na" ?
Absolutely not, taar shonge akkebaare torko chole na. taake
thaatiye thappoD mere ghor-e dhukiye rakhte hoy. Pagol-der
logic-ta jana nei bole taader shonge ami tokko kori na.
BTW, tumi ki shotti bishwas koro naki je jukti diye kono
communalist-ke tumi "sot-pothe" aante paarbe! dhonni tomar
bishwas!
>> Ami to bhai assumption-ta akhono korini, shudhu jigesh
>> korchhi "bikhyato hobaar ichchhe"-ta selfish na
>> selfless.
>>
>Selfish,
>> Ebar ta'le bolo to Suman kano gaan koren?
>I think the reason he sings is because:
>(3) He thinks he has something important to communicate through his music, AND
Kore ki hobe? Aaj na hoy to eventually?
>(4) He earns money through music and supports himself, his wife and his kids
> with that money.
>Neither (3) and (4), taken singly, are SUFFICIENT answers to your question,
>alhough they are NECESSARY. If the answer were only (4), then Suman could
>have gone to Bombay and made much more money by making commercial music.
Ei assumption-ta bodhoy thik noy. Bombay-te kore khaowa
bodhoy Sumanbabu-r pokkhe sombhob hoto na.
>If
>the answer were only (3), then he wouldn't have worried about feeding his
>family and wouldn't have needed to release his albums through HMV.
>But (3) and (4), taken together, are I think a necessary and sufficient
>set of reasons that answer your question "Why does Suman sing?"
maane lok-e jaake "compromise" bole galagaal kore.
>> Jodi shudhu
>> nijer anonder jonne hoy (jeta-o selfish na selfless shei
>> niye alochona-r obokaash aachhe) tobe to HMV theke
>> cassette ber korar kono maane nei; nijer baaDi-te boshe
>> gaile-i paaren, boDojor paDa-r rok-e!
>See proposition (4) above. He is a professional singer who supports
>his family through his singing.
Pothe esho. taale nijer poribaar-er jonno, nijer jonne
kichhu kora-ta shobsomoy selfish noy; ba hole-o toto-ta
nindargho noy. taito?
Ta'le Sumanbabu-ke tumi jeorkom shaarthoheenota-r daarumurti
bole bojhachchhile, tini tamon-ti non. (And I really don't
care, just as a side note). Tini-o gaan koren shaarthe-r
kaarone, may not be _shudhu_ shaarthe-r karone;
>> Taar maane bolchho koutuhol choritaartho korar jonye je peep-show
>> dekhte 42nd street-e jay, aar je koutuhol choritarho korte
>> Nicara.-y jay, tader as such kono tophat nei! Maane dujonei
>> selfless.
>>
>On the issue of whether such an act is "selfish" or not, no, there is
>no difference. But of course there may be many other differences
>between these two hypothetical persons, such as ideological differences,
>what their politics are, what they eat for breakfast,.... So I can't
>say "as such kono tophat nei". In any case I don't know why the comparison
>between these two hypothetical persons is relevant here.
Arektu brandy.
Ashole ota tomar jonne ektu pNachil phNaak kore rakha, jaate
purota "charter-er baire" bole tumi sut kore kete poDte
paaro.
Regards,
Sambit
sayan bhattacharyya
Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>
> Are you positive? Tell me, honestly, didn't Suman's political gimmicks
> influence you at least partially when patronizing his music?
I went back to Calcutta in January 1994 after being "desh-chhaRa" for quite
a few years. I hadn't heard anything about Suman when I went back. I was
attracted to his music initially just for his musical qualities. I learnt
about his politics much later.
In any case, even if his politics have endeared him to a few people, it has
surely also alienated a much larger number of people. For instance, if you
take a head count on s.c.b. on how many people like his politics and how many
do not, you will find that the latter vastly outnumber the former, if posts
in this thread are any indication.
So obviously, if Suman wanted to flaunt his political beliefs simply as
an album-selling proposition, it would have made infinitely more financial
sense for him to flaunt a different set of beliefs, or no beliefs at all.
-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
I had expected better from you. Maybe I just over-estimated you
initially.
In article <4e92uq$b...@gandalf.rutgers.edu>,
Sambit Basu <sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>> Sambit wrote:
>>> My whole point is that, his
>>> political views and his ability (or lack of it) to stick
>>> to them do not make him a better or worse musical personality,
>>> nor do they make his rendition of Rabindrasangeet better
>>> or worse.
>>>
>
>>Quite true. That was not what I was saying, either. The two things are
>>completely orthogonal. The only reason I brought this up was because
>>Apratim compared Suman's visit to Kanoria Jute Mill to some singer's
>>tour of Haiti, which he called self-promotional.
>
> Taar-o aage tumi je loDe gele Sumanbabu-ke "kolkata-r gorbo"
> hishebe protishtha korte, sheta songitshilpi Suman-ke na
> raajniti-bishwashi Suman-ke. Duto personality orthogonal je
> she kotah tumi-i shwikaar korechho.
Sambit, Sambit. Read my words carefully. You were talking about "Suman's
politics" and "Suman's rendition of Rabindrasangeet". These were the
two things that I meant as "the two things are completely orthogonal" -- (1)
But in the above paragraph, you write "songitshilpi suman" ebong
"raajniti-biswasi suman" ei duto personality orthogonal ta naki ami
swikar korchhi. -- (2)
Do you realize your fallacy? (1) and (2) are not equivalent, because
"suman's rendition of rabindrasangeet" and "sangeetshilpi suman" are
not the same thing. Suman's rendition of rabindrasangeet is only a
subset of his total musical personality. His total musical personality
is NOT orthogonal to his political personality. He has himself written
that had he not been to Nicaragua he would not have been able to write
a line like "darun osombhobe tomake chai".
( Incidentally, Suman himself does not translate the word "politics" as
"rajneeti". He (and I too) prefer the word "lokneeti" as the correct
translation of the word.)
> Jodi prothom-ta hoy, tobe tumi amay bojhao je sangitikbhabe
> Suman-er kon boishithye-r jonne tumi ekotha bolchho.
>
> Aar jodi ditiyo-ta hoy, tobe ami tomay aaro bohu lok dekhiye
> debo, jNara ontoto Suman-er moto kothore bishwash raakhen
> nijeder raajniti-te.
Based on what I wrote above, I think you can see that it is neither
"prothomTa" nor "dwitiyoTa".
> Aar tao jodi na hoy, tobe je sombhabona-ta baaki thakchhe,
> ta holo je tomar bishwas aar Suman-er bishwas (rajnoitik)
> mile jachchhe bole tumi onake "kolkata-r gourob" bolchho.
I do not deny this. Certainly, whom I call "Kolkatar Gourob" will
depend on my own Weltanschauung and my views. You have to realize
that you will get a lot of different answers to who is "Kolkataa-r
Gourob" depending on the person you ask. For instance, an RSS person
may say that Shyamaprosad Mukherjee was Calcutta's greatest "gourob".
Others on this thread have said that Agarwalla of Vedica Software is
Kolkata-r "greatest gourob". Of course the answers have to depend on
the world-view of the person giving the answer.
> Tai jodi hoy, tobe je lok-tar shonge Suman-er rajnoitik
> bishwash milbe na, she oi ak-i lok-ke "kolkata-e jonjaal"
> bolte paare
Paare ; bolchheo to.
> ebong tumi taar birodhita korte paaro na,
ETa bujhlam na. Why not?
> kanona opinion niy (ba Russell-er mot-e, values niye) torko
> chole na - ja diye tumi Arnabbabu-r boktobyer birodhita
> korchhile.
Tumi ektu guliye phelchho byaparTa. Suppose your neighbour is a
communalist and during a riot, is urging local people to kill Muslims.
That is his "values", his "subjctive opinion". So will you just stand
back and let him do what he pleases, saying "values niye torko chole
na" ?
>
> Ami to bhai assumption-ta akhono korini, shudhu jigesh
> korchhi "bikhyato hobaar ichchhe"-ta selfish na
> selfless.
>
Selfish,
> Ebar ta'le bolo to Suman kano gaan koren?
I think the reason he sings is because:
(3) He thinks he has something important to communicate through his music, AND
(4) He earns money through music and supports himself, his wife and his kids
with that money.
Neither (3) and (4), taken singly, are SUFFICIENT answers to your question,
alhough they are NECESSARY. If the answer were only (4), then Suman could
have gone to Bombay and made much more money by making commercial music. If
the answer were only (3), then he wouldn't have worried about feeding his
family and wouldn't have needed to release his albums through HMV.
But (3) and (4), taken together, are I think a necessary and sufficient
set of reasons that answer your question "Why does Suman sing?"
> Jodi shudhu
> nijer anonder jonne hoy (jeta-o selfish na selfless shei
> niye alochona-r obokaash aachhe) tobe to HMV theke
> cassette ber korar kono maane nei; nijer baaDi-te boshe
> gaile-i paaren, boDojor paDa-r rok-e!
See proposition (4) above. He is a professional singer who supports
his family through his singing.
>
>>Accha, tumi ki bolbe Rabindranath-o tahole nischoy bikhyato hobar lobhe,
>>nobel prize-er lobhe likhten? jodi na bolo, tahole Suman-er sombondhe
>>bolchho keno?
>
Sambit Basu
>>>> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>>
>>>Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
>>
>> kotha hochchhe apnar perception of "biplob" ebong "biplobi"
>> niye. Akta hNya ba na uttor dite ato deyala korchhen kano?
Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
>Manab mitro r boi ta sei shomoiei lekha,
Shei somoy maane kon somoy? MM deergho ponero bochhor
dhore biplob-er sangbadikota korechhen?
1980's-ee uni regularly Anandabajar-goshthi-r potrika
Desh-e-o "bidesher chithi" type-er lekha likhchhen.
>sehei shomoir tunge jokhon
>Suman Nicraguai gechilen tokhon to ar Nicaraguan lolonader stanokubjer
>rup dekhte janni. Biplob mane shudhu bonuk dhora noi, tate bipolbi
>andoloner sangbadikotao included John Reed er Mexico biplober
>sangbadikotatao tar biplobi karjokolaper ongibhuto.
Biplob sommondhe apnar gyan to chaini Soumitrababu. Proshner
hoy uttor din aar noy chepe jaan. Biplob-er gyan shonar
boyesh o gullibility konota-i aar nei.
>> Maane apni bolchhen:
>>
>> 1. Party-r moncho byabohaar kore poisa banano mondo. Party-r
>> moncho byabohaar na kore poisa korle sheta mondo noy.
>>
>Party r moncho andolon songothito korar jonno noi, ar ekjon whole-timer
>kormi onno kono poisha bananor karjokolap korte pare na ,tai se
>whole-timer , Salil chowdhury tokhon ghosito party wholetimer , kintu
>Suman ekjon peshadar songitshilopi jar kichu kichu biplobi karjokolapo
>ache , erokom onekie achen , ek shomoe Romesh shilo chilen , pore tini
>communist party te ashen, tokhon ar poisha bannani.
>> Sumanbabu SFI projojito o bikrito cassette-e gaan
>> geye prochar-er aloy aste sahjyo niyechhen - eta
>> kon dol-e poDbe? hNya ba na uttor-i jotheshtho.
>>
>Ota amar kache jananei , ba sumankeu jiggesh kore dekhechi je she kobe
>SFI er cassette gan geyeche ,seto amake challenge korei boshlo.
Apnar kaachhe jana na thakle-i to sheta bhul hoye jete
paare na. Aar jodi Sumanbabu deny kore thaken je tini
konodin SFI projojito cassette-e gaan koren ni, tahole
kothao kono gondogol hochchhe. Cassette-ta nijer sonchoy-e
aar bortomaan-e nei. Sheti na ele akjon protishthito
lok-ke daha mithyebaadi bolte ektu songkoch bodh hochchhe.
>> 2. Communist party (ebong totsoho "ban howa") bolte apni
>> nishchoi chollish-ponchaash doshok-er obibhokto communist
>> party-r kotha bolchhen. Shekhane Salil Chowdhry PC Joshi-r
>> odhin party-r cultural cell-er sodoshyo chhilen, jekhane
>> onar _kaaj_-i chhilo gaan bNadha.
>>
>Bhule gele cholbe na je Salil chowdhury Communsit party card holder
>member chilen ebong Communsit party whole timer hishebe bhata peten .
Party-r whole timer theke party-e nirdeshe party-r monche
gaan gaowa tahole tahole apnar mot-e biplob-birodhi
kaaj. Yes or No?
>> 3. Salil C sompurno shechchha-y party chhaDen ni, badhyo
>> hoyechhilen.
>>
>MAma dhop ekhon oneki dewo jai ,
Sheta ki Sumanbabu sommondhe-o bola jay na?
>tarporei Soviet er dalali ta etoi
>beshi korechen je studio banabar naam kore prakton communist State bank
>Manager kach theke koto takar rin bar kore ar kono din instalment gulo
>ferot denni, sei bechara x-communist bank manager er chakri gelo.
>Jotodin Soviet jamana , indira ar bam amole chilo biswanath babu r soi
>niye chutiye sorkari ar soviet prishtoposokota korechen .
Eta ami-o shunechhi.
>>>ar ekjon peshadar songitshilpi hoie shramik
>>>andoloner jonne nijer Anandobazari pithchaprano o HMV r somporko
>nosto
>>>koren .
"shudhu ki mukher bakyo shunechho...".
>> Sumanbabu HMV-ke galagal dite shuru korar por ontoto pNachti
>> cassette shekhan theke ber korechhen. She somporke apnar
>> ki boktobyo Soumitrababu?
>>
>>
>HMV bhalo byabosha protishtan , tar taka dorkar , tobe HMV r songye
>ekhon tar kisher kirokom somporko seta to ghorar mukh thekei shunlei
>hoi, HMV take kiki prostab diyeche ar segulo keno sumaner pokshe neyoa
>sombhob na ,se gulo niey to little mag e onek lekha beriyeche.
Little mag ghoDa-r mukh? Naki Sumanbabu?
>>>Salil chowdhury ekta brief periode naki "abscond" chilen.
>>
>> Er ager posting-e je bollen _konodin_ koren ni? Jene
>> shune mithye kotha bolchhilen?
>>
>Sei "absconder" rup takei to likhechi , ota ki jontu.
O, apnar "absconder"-er akta quantum physics diye byakhya
korchhen. SC-r abscond-kora-r somoy-ta theshold value
reach koreni jaate kore onar abscond kora-ta abscond bole
dhora jay.
>> Jodi na janen, tobe janai je jokhon "Runner" HMV-te
>> recording hoyechhilo, SC tokhon absconding. Hemantababu-r
>> nijer porichalonay shei gaan-ti record hoy.
>>
>>
>Janona ka rbarite tini abscond chilen .ektu Hemango biswaser boi ta
>pore dekho .
It's his word against SC's.
(Somoy pele SC sommondhe HB-r mot post korar ichchhe roilo).
>>>Tobe Communist party
>>>banned , shobai undergrounde tokhon Slail babu bohal tobiyote kolkate
>>>udbastu osbhai gan gaichen ar Somnath hor ekjon chitroshilpi hoieo
>>>abscond thakte badhyo hochhen.
>>
>> To? Ritwik Ghatak korechhilen? Onye korechhilen kina
>> jene to labh nei, apni hothat Salil C aar Suman C-r
>> absconding history niye bicholito hoye poDlen kina! Bolun to
>> thik kobe ebong kothay Sumanbabu abscond korechhilen? Bolun
>> to taar shonge Sumanbabu-r gaaner sangitik somporko kotota?
>>
>> Irrespective of these discussions, amar kaachhe, Sumanbabu
>> musical personality hishebe "bhalo, kintu toto bhalo noy,
>> jotota Salil C"-i hoye thakben.
>>
>Alochona ami shuru korini .
Salil C.-ke alochona-y prothom apni-i anlen Soumitrababu.
sMriti jodi bishwashghatokota kore, tobe asha kori ete
kaaj debe:
---------------------------------
>>>>>RAjnoitik gimmick pete gele Suman onek atmoprocharer moddhye
>>>>>diye jete parten , jeta prothom theke Salil babu korechilen ,
---------------------------------
>jai hok ekhon mul alochonai phire elei
>bhalo.
Muul alochona-ta ki? Suman kolkata-r gorbo na gorbo noy?
Regards,
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
Basu) writes:
>
>soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>>>>> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>>>
>>>>Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
>>>
>>> kotha hochchhe apnar perception of "biplob" ebong "biplobi"
>>> niye. Akta hNya ba na uttor dite ato deyala korchhen kano?
>
> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
>
>>Manab mitro r boi ta sei shomoiei lekha,
>
> Shei somoy maane kon somoy? MM deergho ponero bochhor
> dhore biplob-er sangbadikota korechhen?
Manab Mitro VOa thekei tar sangbadik jibon shuru koren ,Nicaragua te
jowar onek age thekei tini NY o DC te street singer der sathe kaj
korten Sudiptor Docu ta dekhben. Tar age tini JU te chilen , E niye ar
beshi kichu kotha bariye labh nei , Ajkal tar Atmojiboni o sudipto r
documentary te bistor achye .
Ekhon mushkil, Suman ke na bishwas korar moto kichu ekhono ami ontoto
paini, ontoto ei case e.
>>> 2. Communist party (ebong totsoho "ban howa") bolte apni
>>> nishchoi chollish-ponchaash doshok-er obibhokto communist
>>> party-r kotha bolchhen. Shekhane Salil Chowdhry PC Joshi-r
>>> odhin party-r cultural cell-er sodoshyo chhilen, jekhane
>>> onar _kaaj_-i chhilo gaan bNadha.
>>>
>
>>Bhule gele cholbe na je Salil chowdhury Communsit party card holder
>>member chilen ebong Communsit party whole timer hishebe bhata peten .
>
> Party-r whole timer theke party-e nirdeshe party-r monche
> gaan gaowa tahole tahole apnar mot-e biplob-birodhi
> kaaj. Yes or No?
Communist party r wholetimer theke party r moncho ba party r proyojon
chara kichu socia-cultural kaj kora party ethics birodhi.Salil
chowdhury Communist party r member hoieo dhorao porenni ebong chutiye
o -rajnoitik program korechen , ontoto ekti khetre ami jani Communist
party ke oshubidhei porte hoichilo , sei program totkalin PSP organise
kore.Elaka ta jehetu Jadavpur ami seta paribarik PSP sutre shunechi.
Little mag gulote Suman er interview beriche ,tar ekti Sayan Udhrito
korechey .
Ami etai bolechi je Salil Atmoprocharer porakashtha jeta Suman korte
parten korenni, Salil er adyopanto rajnoitik jibon alochonai eshechye
jeta te ami khub jete chaini , shudhu etuku dekhano chara je se besh
boro rokomer institutionalised chirojiboni chilo.Jol onekdur gorieyche.
Sambit Basu
>Sambit Basu writes:
>>
>>soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>>
>>>>>> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>>>>
>>>>>Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
>>>>
>>>> kotha hochchhe apnar perception of "biplob" ebong "biplobi"
>>>> niye. Akta hNya ba na uttor dite ato deyala korchhen kano?
>>
>> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>Manab mitro r boi ta sei shomoiei lekha,
>>
>> Shei somoy maane kon somoy? MM deergho ponero bochhor
>> dhore biplob-er sangbadikota korechhen?
>Manab Mitro VOa thekei tar sangbadik jibon shuru koren ,Nicaragua te
>jowar onek age thekei tini NY o DC te street singer der sathe kaj
>korten Sudiptor Docu ta dekhben. Tar age tini JU te chilen , E niye ar
>beshi kichu kotha bariye labh nei , Ajkal tar Atmojiboni o sudipto r
>documentary te bistor achye .
O apnar funda ta'le Sumanbabu-r atMojeeboni aar Sudipto
Chatterjee-r documentary (jeta akhono shesh hoyechhe kina
janina)? Eta aage bolle ato kotha-i hoto na; ami bhebechhilum
apni Sumanbabu sommondhe jotota jaanen bole bhaan korchhilen
toto-tai jaanen.
Apni Hemanga Biswas-er kotha biswas kore, Salil Chowdhury'r
kotha biswas koren na - kaorn-o dekhan na. Sumanbabu-r oteet
Sumanbabu-r bortoman boktobyo theke biswas koren, onyer khetre
koren na - karon-o dekhan na; apni little mag-er interview-ke
dhruba sotyo mone koren, Anandabajaar-e berole mone koren na.
Apnar shonge torko kora akta biDombona. Jodi konodin apnar
torker rules shikhi (durbhagyokrom-e) tobe shei cheshta
kore dekhbo, nochet tata. Apni Suman-stuti chheDe jodi rational
logic-er poth-e hNatte chaan, amar goto tinte post-e bohu proshno
aachhe, jegulo apni eDiye gachhen, shegulo jobab debar cheshta
korun.
Regards,
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
Basu) writes:
>
>Soumitra Bose writes:
>
>>>
>>>soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>>>
>>>>>>> Sumanbabu ki tahole '74-'89 biplobi chhilen na?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Oi shomoie ki koprechilen ta to boitei ache
>>>>>
>>>>> kotha hochchhe apnar perception of "biplob" ebong "biplobi"
>>>>> niye. Akta hNya ba na uttor dite ato deyala korchhen kano?
>>>
>>> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ami amar moto kore uttor debo, Amar dharona Ami bar bar bolechi je
Suamner chatrojibon theke tar kromobordhoman biplobikoroner prokriya
shuru hoeche , ekhono tar kono downward slope loskho korini.Karo oddhut
proshner shudhu ha(n)i ba na uttor dewoa amar kache hoi balkhilota
othoba puchhopakamor uttor dewo bole mone hoi. Eto bolar poreio bujhte
na parle tar dwattiyo amar opor bortai na .
>
>>>>Manab mitro r boi ta sei shomoiei lekha,
>>>
>>> Shei somoy maane kon somoy? MM deergho ponero bochhor
>>> dhore biplob-er sangbadikota korechhen?
>
>>Manab Mitro VOa thekei tar sangbadik jibon shuru koren ,Nicaragua te
>>jowar onek age thekei tini NY o DC te street singer der sathe kaj
>>korten Sudiptor Docu ta dekhben. Tar age tini JU te chilen , E niye
ar
>>beshi kichu kotha bariye labh nei , Ajkal tar Atmojiboni o sudipto r
>>documentary te bistor achye .
>
> O apnar funda ta'le Sumanbabu-r atMojeeboni aar Sudipto
> Chatterjee-r documentary (jeta akhono shesh hoyechhe kina
> janina)? Eta aage bolle ato kotha-i hoto na; ami bhebechhilum
> apni Sumanbabu sommondhe jotota jaanen bole bhaan korchhilen
> toto-tai jaanen.
>
Sei amoler onnanno der kach theke ja shunechi tar poreo amar mone
hoichye ei duto theke reference dewota onek accountable .
> Apni Hemanga Biswas-er kotha biswas kore, Salil Chowdhury'r
> kotha biswas koren na - kaorn-o dekhan na. Sumanbabu-r oteet
> Sumanbabu-r bortoman boktobyo theke biswas koren, onyer khetre
> koren na - karon-o dekhan na; apni little mag-er interview-ke
> dhruba sotyo mone koren, Anandabajaar-e berole mone koren na.
>
Suman shommondhe er baireo tar somoshamoyik o sotirhto der kach theke
ja shunechi ta er theke kichu bhinno chilo na , tai Suman er kotha
biswas na korar kono karon khu(n)je paini, ar Anadabazarer kotha biswas
na korar moto jothesto karon ekhono pachchi.
> Apnar shonge torko kora akta biDombona. Jodi konodin apnar
> torker rules shikhi (durbhagyokrom-e) tobe shei cheshta
> kore dekhbo, nochet tata. Apni Suman-stuti chheDe jodi rational
> logic-er poth-e hNatte chaan, amar goto tinte post-e bohu proshno
> aachhe, jegulo apni eDiye gachhen, shegulo jobab debar cheshta
> korun.
>
> Regards,
> Sambit
"Ratiopnal logic " kothatai khub loaded , je keu nijer khushi moto e
shobdoti sajiye nei.
sayan bhattacharyya
>>>> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
Once again, an answer is being demanded from Soumitra in terms of binary
opposites, even though it has been repeatedly pointed out in this
newsgroup that the reductionist practice of grounding everything in
terms of binary opposites is highly questionable.
Sambit Basu
>In <4egto0$9...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Sambit
>Basu) writes:
>>
>>>> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ami amar moto kore uttor debo, Amar dharona Ami bar bar bolechi je
>Suamner chatrojibon theke tar kromobordhoman biplobikoroner prokriya
>shuru hoeche , ekhono tar kono downward slope loskho korini.
Ei jobab-ta tritiyobaar-e na diye prothombaar-e dile
ato bakyobay korte hoto bole mone hoy.
>Karo oddhut
>proshner shudhu ha(n)i ba na uttor dewoa amar kache hoi balkhilota
>othoba puchhopakamor uttor dewo bole mone hoi. Eto bolar poreio bujhte
>na parle tar dwattiyo amar opor bortai na .
Ei usenet group-e kichhu-ri daawitto kaarur opor bortay
na!
>> O apnar funda ta'le Sumanbabu-r atMojeeboni aar Sudipto
>> Chatterjee-r documentary (jeta akhono shesh hoyechhe kina
>> janina)? Eta aage bolle ato kotha-i hoto na; ami bhebechhilum
>> apni Sumanbabu sommondhe jotota jaanen bole bhaan korchhilen
>> toto-tai jaanen.
>>
>Sei amoler onnanno der kach theke ja shunechi tar poreo amar mone
>hoichye ei duto theke reference dewota onek accountable .
>> Apni Hemanga Biswas-er kotha biswas kore, Salil Chowdhury'r
>> kotha biswas koren na - kaorn-o dekhan na. Sumanbabu-r oteet
>> Sumanbabu-r bortoman boktobyo theke biswas koren, onyer khetre
>> koren na - karon-o dekhan na; apni little mag-er interview-ke
>> dhruba sotyo mone koren, Anandabajaar-e berole mone koren na.
>>
>Suman shommondhe er baireo tar somoshamoyik o sotirhto der kach theke
>ja shunechi ta er theke kichu bhinno chilo na , tai Suman er kotha
>biswas na korar kono karon khu(n)je paini, ar Anadabazarer kotha biswas
>na korar moto jothesto karon ekhono pachchi.
Orthaat subjectivity. Apnar set of information theke apni
ja conclude korechhen sheta hoyto amar theke bhinno. Jodi
ak-i set of information theke duto contradictory conclusion
amra dujon reach kori, tobe sheta amader difference of values
jeta niye torko britha. Kintu jodi set of information dutoi
alada hoy, tahole shegulo share kora jete paare. Apni sposhto-i
information share korte raaji non othoba apnar kaachhe notun kono
information nei, shekhetre amader basic kichhu values alada. Dui
khetre-i ei alochona britha.
>"Ratiopnal logic " kothatai khub loaded , je keu nijer khushi moto e
>shobdoti sajiye nei.
Tai?
Regards,
Sambit
Sambit Basu
>>In <4egto0$9...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Sambit
>>Basu) writes:
>>>>> Apnar hNya ba na uttor akhono pelum na.
>Once again, an answer is being demanded from Soumitra in terms of binary
>opposites, even though it has been repeatedly pointed out in this
>newsgroup that the reductionist practice of grounding everything in
>terms of binary opposites is highly questionable.
HA, HA...
Sayan thanda ki komlo na? Mogoj akhono jome aachhe?
"Tumi aajke ghaash kheyechho?" - er uttor-e po-mo-ra
tin pata probondho phNadte paaro, kintu probondher prothom
shobdo-ta hNya (ba na) likhe dile post-modernist gyanbaaji-r
haat theke rehai pai.
"Highly questionable" kichhu hole-i sheta gorhito hoye jay
na sheta bodh kori tumi jaano! Suman-er credential-o kintu
karur karur kaachhe "highly questionable".
Regards,
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>>Ami amar moto kore uttor debo, Amar dharona Ami bar bar bolechi je
>>Suamner chatrojibon theke tar kromobordhoman biplobikoroner prokriya
>>shuru hoeche , ekhono tar kono downward slope loskho korini.
>
> Ei jobab-ta tritiyobaar-e na diye prothombaar-e dile
> ato bakyobay korte hoto bole mone hoy.
Ekta shoja bakyoke etota bhenge bola ami amar at bochorer bhagnikeu
konodin korte hoi ni. Bijhbo ki kore ajo kuke kauke "made-easy" marka
uttor dite hoi. Ar ami keno binary uttor debo , ami ki manushke gadha
bhabi naki?
>
>>Karo oddhut
>>proshner shudhu ha(n)i ba na uttor dewoa amar kache hoi balkhilota
>>othoba puchhopakamor uttor dewo bole mone hoi. Eto bolar poreio
bujhte
>>na parle tar dwattiyo amar opor bortai na .
>
> Ei usenet group-e kichhu-ri daawitto kaarur opor bortay
> na!
>
Etodin jantam communicationer dai ba dwattiyo communicator er , ekhon
bujhhi eta nao hote pare.
Prithibite jara "objectivity" r borai kore tara amar kache hoi "seyana
bhondo" ar na hoi ekebarei Gandu(akshorik orthei). Manusher chokh
jokhon tar budhi o dharona dwara governed tokhon kono kichui objective
noi.Manusher brain Turin machine noi je eki set of information thakle
ar ekta algorithm dite parle output eki berube . Ami jotodor jani one
of the most important criterion of an intelligent machine hochye seta
mithye bolte pare kina ba seta dodge fudge korte pare kina .Ekhaneo
intelligence er songye subjectivity dhokanor chesta hochye ar manush to
enigmatic animal botei.
Soumitra Bose
Basu) writes:
>bhat...@heron.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>>>In <4egto0$9...@gandalf.rutgers.edu> sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu
(Sambit
>>>Basu) writes:
>
>
binary
>>opposites, even though it has been repeatedly pointed out in this
>>newsgroup that the reductionist practice of grounding everything in
>>terms of binary opposites is highly questionable.
>
>
> HA, HA...
>
> Sayan thanda ki komlo na? Mogoj akhono jome aachhe?
>
> "Tumi aajke ghaash kheyechho?" - er uttor-e po-mo-ra
> tin pata probondho phNadte paaro, kintu probondher prothom
> shobdo-ta hNya (ba na) likhe dile post-modernist gyanbaaji-r
> haat theke rehai pai.
>
Konta ghash ar konta ghash noi eta ki khub porishkar ? Koloi shak kimba
japanira jake chive bole ,seguloke to bangaleera koyek doshok ageo
ghash bolto.Medinipure Mukhshedpur grame dkehechi je chashira jotedarer
dhan pholachen tara "Sara chal " kheye ache , Du mile dure loke take
bole "Sara ghaseher bichi" BAbura sorbotroi take ghash bole . L'hotel
du papa" r permanent guestra erokom onek kichukei ghashpata bhabe ,
jeta sadharon manush tariye tariye khai.Abar subjectivity.
> "Highly questionable" kichhu hole-i sheta gorhito hoye jay
> na sheta bodh kori tumi jaano! Suman-er credential-o kintu
> karur karur kaachhe "highly questionable".
>
> Regards,
> Sambit
>
>
Karur karur kache ,,,,Wonderful subjectivity. Sei eki traitgulo abar
onnannder kachye admirable.
Sambit Basu
>Sambit Basu writes:
>> Ei jobab-ta tritiyobaar-e na diye prothombaar-e dile
>> ato bakyobay korte hoto bole mone hoy.
>Ekta shoja bakyoke etota bhenge bola ami amar at bochorer bhagnikeu
>konodin korte hoi ni. Bijhbo ki kore ajo kuke kauke "made-easy" marka
>uttor dite hoi.
Apni kano bhebe nilen je amar buddhi apnar bhagni-r theke
beshi. Apni bhagni-r theke boka karur shonge kotha bolen na,
ba taar proshner jobab dan na? Ki "elitist" mairi apni!!!!
>Ar ami keno binary uttor debo , ami ki manushke gadha
>bhabi naki?
Maane jara binary uttor day, tara manush-ke gadha bhaabe.
Soumitrababu apni thamaben na, chaliye jaan.
Soumitrababu "apni jibito?" (ontoto 1000 line-er probondho
asha korchhi ekhane. Please eDiye jaaben na. Please.)
>> Ei usenet group-e kichhu-ri daawitto kaarur opor bortay
>> na!
>>
>Etodin jantam communicationer dai ba dwattiyo communicator er , ekhon
>bujhhi eta nao hote pare.
She dayitto apni palon korchhen na dekhe-i to du:khe kotha-ta
bollum.
>> Orthaat subjectivity. Apnar set of information theke apni
>> ja conclude korechhen sheta hoyto amar theke bhinno. Jodi
>> ak-i set of information theke duto contradictory conclusion
>> amra dujon reach kori, tobe sheta amader difference of values
>> jeta niye torko britha. Kintu jodi set of information dutoi
>> alada hoy, tahole shegulo share kora jete paare. Apni sposhto-i
>> information share korte raaji non othoba apnar kaachhe notun kono
>> information nei, shekhetre amader basic kichhu values alada. Dui
>> khetre-i ei alochona britha.
>>
>Prithibite jara "objectivity" r borai kore tara amar kache hoi "seyana
>bhondo" ar na hoi ekebarei Gandu(akshorik orthei).
to? Amar kaachhe jara biplob biplob kore laphay, aar USA-te
boshe boDo boDo kotha bole taader ""seyana bhondo" ar na hoi
ekebarei Gandu(akshorik orthei)" mone hoy. taate kaar ki eshe
galo?
>Manusher chokh
>jokhon tar budhi o dharona dwara governed tokhon kono kichui objective
>noi.
tai?
>Manusher brain Turin machine noi je eki set of information thakle
>ar ekta algorithm dite parle output eki berube .
Shob-somoy noy. Kintu kichhu khetre sheta na berole paglaa
gaarod aachhe.
(Turin machine ki?)
>Ami jotodor jani one
>of the most important criterion of an intelligent machine hochye seta
>mithye bolte pare kina ba seta dodge fudge korte pare kina .Ekhaneo
>intelligence er songye subjectivity dhokanor chesta hochye ar manush to
>enigmatic animal botei.
Bojho thyala!
Regards,
Sambit
Sambit Basu
>Sambit Basu writes:
>> "Tumi aajke ghaash kheyechho?" - er uttor-e po-mo-ra
>> tin pata probondho phNadte paaro, kintu probondher prothom
>> shobdo-ta hNya (ba na) likhe dile post-modernist gyanbaaji-r
>> haat theke rehai pai.
>>
>Konta ghash ar konta ghash noi eta ki khub porishkar ? Koloi shak kimba
>japanira jake chive bole ,seguloke to bangaleera koyek doshok ageo
>ghash bolto.Medinipure Mukhshedpur grame dkehechi je chashira jotedarer
>dhan pholachen tara "Sara chal " kheye ache , Du mile dure loke take
>bole "Sara ghaseher bichi" BAbura sorbotroi take ghash bole . L'hotel
>du papa" r permanent guestra erokom onek kichukei ghashpata bhabe ,
>jeta sadharon manush tariye tariye khai.Abar subjectivity.
Naaaaaaaah! po-mo-r joy hok.
Kauke jodi proshno kora hoy je she aaj ghaash kheyechhe kina,
ebong taar kaachhe bhasha-ti ebong "ghaash" shobdo-ti jodi
chena thaake, "ghaash"-er shonge _khaowa_ - ei kaaj-tar
kono association thaake, tahole she "ghaash" kaake bole
e proshno tulte jaabe na. She binary-tei uttor debe - shobai
noy oboshyo. Jamon ei apni-i.
Monoj Mitra-r "Chokhe-Angul-Dada" natok-e chokhe-angul-dada-r
bidhata-ke uddesh kore ekti proshno chhilo, "meye? meye kaake
bole bidhata?" Apni ki bolen Soumitrababu?
>> "Highly questionable" kichhu hole-i sheta gorhito hoye jay
>> na sheta bodh kori tumi jaano! Suman-er credential-o kintu
>> karur karur kaachhe "highly questionable".
>>
>Karur karur kache ,,,,Wonderful subjectivity. Sei eki traitgulo abar
>onnannder kachye admirable.
Jahshshala! "karur karur kaachhe"-te abar subjectivity kothay
pelen?
Regards
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
>
>>> "Tumi aajke ghaash kheyechho?" - er uttor-e po-mo-ra
>>> tin pata probondho phNadte paaro, kintu probondher prothom
>>> shobdo-ta hNya (ba na) likhe dile post-modernist gyanbaaji-r
>>> haat theke rehai pai.
>>>
>
>>Konta ghash ar konta ghash noi eta ki khub porishkar ? Koloi shak
kimba
>>japanira jake chive bole ,seguloke to bangaleera koyek doshok ageo
>>ghash bolto.Medinipure Mukhshedpur grame dkehechi je chashira
jotedarer
>>dhan pholachen tara "Sara chal " kheye ache , Du mile dure loke take
>>bole "Sara ghaseher bichi" BAbura sorbotroi take ghash bole . L'hotel
>>du papa" r permanent guestra erokom onek kichukei ghashpata bhabe ,
>>jeta sadharon manush tariye tariye khai.Abar subjectivity.
>
> Naaaaaaaah! po-mo-r joy hok.
>
> Kauke jodi proshno kora hoy je she aaj ghaash kheyechhe kina,
> ebong taar kaachhe bhasha-ti ebong "ghaash" shobdo-ti jodi
> chena thaake, "ghaash"-er shonge _khaowa_ - ei kaaj-tar
> kono association thaake, tahole she "ghaash" kaake bole
> e proshno tulte jaabe na. She binary-tei uttor debe - shobai
> noy oboshyo. Jamon ei apni-i.
Medinipurer oi lok gulo. jara etao jane je babura otake Ghash
bole,tader jiggesh korle ki uttor debe .Dutoi bolbe ki na eriye giye
bolbe "Sora kheyechi"
>
> Monoj Mitra-r "Chokhe-Angul-Dada" natok-e chokhe-angul-dada-r
> bidhata-ke uddesh kore ekti proshno chhilo, "meye? meye kaake
> bole bidhata?" Apni ki bolen Soumitrababu?
>
Ekta mojar kotha shonai.Go(n)ra Boishnaobder modhye ekta riti ba broto
achye janoto.Bhogobot preme apluto hoie Go(n)shaira nijer modhye radha
avishkar koren o sotti sotti mone koren kokhono kokhono tader Ritu hoi
ba ta(n)ra Rojoshola hon. ICS Asoke Mitro r jiboniteo sedin dekhlam tar
ullekh ache , oi shomoi naki Go(n)shai ra kono purusher songye dekha
koren na. Bojho ebar ..eta kintu joke noi, eta tader khetre sotti bole
o(n)ra mone koren. MEntal construct kothai jai tahole .Indranilke bolo
se tao sara rat dhore heshe kutipati hoi shokale ogyan na hoi jai.
>>> "Highly questionable" kichhu hole-i sheta gorhito hoye jay
>>> na sheta bodh kori tumi jaano! Suman-er credential-o kintu
>>> karur karur kaachhe "highly questionable".
>>>
>>Karur karur kache ,,,,Wonderful subjectivity. Sei eki traitgulo abar
>>onnannder kachye admirable.
>
> Jahshshala! "karur karur kaachhe"-te abar subjectivity kothay
> pelen?
>
Sei "karu" ta ki obkective naki ,seta to subjecter opor nirbhorshil
,ekhane subject byaktiti . Abar ekjoner modhye duto dharao thake je dui
chinta dui byakti sottar moto lore jai.Subjectivityr chorachori.Byaktir
modhye Byakti ..sei ekkotha "Ek bhenge dui hoi" Dialectical bibhajoni
bolo ar deconstruction i bolo...
>
> Regards
> Sambit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Soumitra Bose
>>> ato bakyobay korte hoto bole mone hoy.
>
>>Ekta shoja bakyoke etota bhenge bola ami amar at bochorer bhagnikeu
>>konodin korte hoi ni. Bijhbo ki kore ajo kuke kauke "made-easy" marka
>>uttor dite hoi.
>
> Apni kano bhebe nilen je amar buddhi apnar bhagni-r theke
> beshi. Apni bhagni-r theke boka karur shonge kotha bolen na,
> ba taar proshner jobab dan na? Ki "elitist" mairi apni!!!!
Eta budhir proshno na , fusioner o packaging er proshno. orthat
onobhigyora jekono jinishke shudhu analysis er madhyomei jane , orthat
bhenge tarpore hojom kore .Ar obhigyota thakle stored procedure er moto
ba built-in parsed routiner moto tar songye nijer obhigyotke map kore
ekta ortho kore nei. eTa simply obhigyotar opor nirbhor kore ,Eta to
ghotonai je amar at bochorer bhagnir obhigyota (ontoto tarka o bitorko
shastre) amar theke kom , shudhumatro boyesher hishebei kom.
>
>>Ar ami keno binary uttor debo , ami ki manushke gadha
>>bhabi naki?
>
> Maane jara binary uttor day, tara manush-ke gadha bhaabe.
> Soumitrababu apni thamaben na, chaliye jaan.
>
Of course , ekshobar..Binary te uttor dewaor othro hochye hoi she nije
gadha ,ar no hoi she eriye jete chai, ar na hoi se duniya sudhu sobaike
Gadha bhebe nijeke Brohma bhabe.
> Soumitrababu "apni jibito?" (ontoto 1000 line-er probondho
> asha korchhi ekhane. Please eDiye jaaben na. Please.)
>
Seta abar ki, Ontoto (sumaner kotha onujaii) ekhono swapno dekhi,dekhte
chai, dekahte bhalo lage , ekhono babhte pari , tai nischoi jibito
,hoito dhu(n)kchi , tobu hai(n) be(n)che achi. Suman er gan amake abar
bhabte jor dei .
>>> Ei usenet group-e kichhu-ri daawitto kaarur opor bortay
>>> na!
>>>
>>Etodin jantam communicationer dai ba dwattiyo communicator er , ekhon
>>bujhhi eta nao hote pare.
>
> She dayitto apni palon korchhen na dekhe-i to du:khe kotha-ta
> bollum.
>
Pathor ke ta dile bacha beroi na , tobe seta jodi Dim hoie pathorer
moto oshar hoie thakte pare (jodi eta sombhob hoi je ekta
anti-intelligence thakte pare-shaala positivism kothai niye geche ,
anti anti kujHN)te khunjte ekhon puro full circle tautologyte eshe
thekeche ) tobe to khel khotom shob rokom incubationeri immune gun
orjon korbe ota . setar ki kchu hobe ?
Orthaat subjectivity. Apnar set of information theke apni
>>> ja conclude korechhen sheta hoyto amar theke bhinno. Jodi
>>> ak-i set of information theke duto contradictory conclusion
>>> amra dujon reach kori, tobe sheta amader difference of values
>>> jeta niye torko britha. Kintu jodi set of information dutoi
>>> alada hoy, tahole shegulo share kora jete paare. Apni sposhto-i
>>> information share korte raaji non othoba apnar kaachhe notun kono
>>> information nei, shekhetre amader basic kichhu values alada. Dui
>>> khetre-i ei alochona britha.
>>>
>>Prithibite jara "objectivity" r borai kore tara amar kache hoi
"seyana
>>bhondo" ar na hoi ekebarei Gandu(akshorik orthei).
>
> to? Amar kaachhe jara biplob biplob kore laphay, aar USA-te
> boshe boDo boDo kotha bole taader ""seyana bhondo" ar na hoi
> ekebarei Gandu(akshorik orthei)" mone hoy. taate kaar ki eshe
> galo?
>
Tai to shobii to byakti bisheshe obhibyakti,tai subjective .
Sudipto Chatterjee
bandha karo. Sambit--tor sange mukhomukhi Suman samwandhe jakhan kathaa
hayechhilo, takhan to dekhini toke erakam taRbaR taRbaR karte? oTaa kon
dharaner subjectivity chhilo? aar jakhan Sumaner interview-Taa
transcribe karli aamaar documentary-r janye? tui Suman samwandhe aar
paa(n)janer theke ekTu beshi-i hayto jaanis, taai tor kaachh theke aar
ekTu beshi kichhu-i aashaa karchhilaam. ekhan to mane hachchhe Suman
noi, Soumitra-ke kaaThi deoaaTaai tor abhipraay. Hope I am wrong.
aar Soumitra-daa--tomaar-o baapu kono daay paReni Suman-er taa(n)bedaari
karbaar. Suman jaa, Suman taai. sab loker-i pachhanda-apachhanda aachhe.
ekhon tumi to aar kaauke ghaaR dhare Suman-premik kare tulte paarbe naa!
Sumaner bichaar habe itihaas-er kaaThgaRaay, aar jekhaanei hok, SCB-te
definitely noi!
:Sudipto
--
________________________________________________________________________
___ __ __
________| ___ ____________|___ _________\___________
/ || | \_/| |___ / | _ || /|| / | / | \ |
\_||/| | _| | / | | / ||_/ || | | \ | / |
/ | | | \__/ |_/ \_ |_/\ | || \__| / | \__|
/\ __/ *
\/\
_______________________________________________________________________
100 Bleecker Street, Apt. #7C, New York, NY 10012.
Tel: (212) 979-6466 Fax: (212) 995-4094
sayan bhattacharyya
Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Ekta mojar kotha shonai.Go(n)ra Boishnaobder modhye ekta riti ba broto
>achye janoto.Bhogobot preme apluto hoie Go(n)shaira nijer modhye radha
>avishkar koren o sotti sotti mone koren kokhono kokhono tader Ritu hoi
>ba ta(n)ra Rojoshola hon. ICS Asoke Mitro r jiboniteo sedin dekhlam tar
>ullekh ache , oi shomoi naki Go(n)shai ra kono purusher songye dekha
>koren na. Bojho ebar ..eta kintu joke noi, eta tader khetre sotti bole
>o(n)ra mone koren. MEntal construct kothai jai tahole .Indranilke bolo
>se tao sara rat dhore heshe kutipati hoi shokale ogyan na hoi jai.
>
Another similar example is that of the many mediaeval Christian saints
(including St. Francis of Assisi) who thought they had the stigmata (i.e.
the wounds inflicted on Christ's body by the nails used to nail him to the
cross) on their own bodies.
-Sayan.
William Herzog
: Pathor ke ta dile bacha beroi na , tobe seta jodi Dim hoie pathorer
: moto oshar hoie thakte pare (jodi eta sombhob hoi je ekta
: anti-intelligence thakte pare-shaala positivism kothai niye geche ,
: anti anti kujHN)te khunjte ekhon puro full circle tautologyte eshe
: thekeche ) tobe to khel khotom shob rokom incubationeri immune gun
: orjon korbe ota . setar ki kchu hobe ?
Amader modhye je Soumitra-babur moto Mohapurush achhen eta jeneo
romancho hochchhe. Sambit, eshob save kore rakho. Akdin ei `Kothamrito' boi
hoye berobe. Hoi hoi pore jabe.
Soumitra-babu, gerua nichchhen naki? Ami kintu shishyo hobo.
: >>Manusher brain Turin machine noi je eki set of information thakle
: >>ar ekta algorithm dite parle output eki berube .
: >
Manusher brain Turing machine-er cheye kono ongshe kom noy. Beshio noy.
Indranil.
sambit_basu
> Amader modhye je Soumitra-babur moto Mohapurush achhen eta jeneo
> romancho hochchhe. Sambit, eshob save kore rakho. Akdin ei `Kothamrito' boi
> hoye berobe. Hoi hoi pore jabe.
Aami Soumitrababu-ke walk-over diye dilum. Khaali ball niye gallery-te
uthe jachchhen.
Here giye,
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
writes:
>Soumitra Bose (soum...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: Pathor ke ta dile bacha beroi na , tobe seta jodi Dim hoie pathorer
>: moto oshar hoie thakte pare (jodi eta sombhob hoi je ekta
>: anti-intelligence thakte pare-shaala positivism kothai niye geche ,
>: anti anti kujHN)te khunjte ekhon puro full circle tautologyte eshe
>: thekeche ) tobe to khel khotom shob rokom incubationeri immune gun
>: orjon korbe ota . setar ki kchu hobe ?
>
>romancho hochchhe. Sambit, eshob save kore rakho. Akdin ei
`Kothamrito' boi
>hoye berobe. Hoi hoi pore jabe.
>
Ei bhek dhorte bola ta kintu deconstruct korle jachetai hobe.Amader
segregated societal-norms(ja Gupto Samrajyer por theke centralised
state machinery r proyojone hoichilo) e toiri kora holo je rasta theke
je keu eshe philosophy lorate parbe na , tar jonno gerua porte hobe
Gandhi eta bijhechilen . bhek dorlen , kolke pelen.C.R,DAs er kapor ar
paris theke istri kore elo na, jinnah bodlalen na , kolke pelen na .
Pakistan er pore sei take bhek bodlate holo. Ajo jokhon tumi gla dite
giye ba amake pagaol proman korte giye sei bheker kotha bolle obocheton
mone(collective unconscious er jonne) tumi sei bheker image ba icon ke
bhulte parle na , setai niye ele . Etai hochye purono feudalism o
colonialism er jaroj sontan.Colonialism amader shikhiyeche am jonota
Dorshon bujhbe na , SAheb ra tader bujhiye debe
bharater"Ontaratta"(jemon chesta korechilen Moksho mueller saheb), she
oboshyo onno kotha . Are Galta to ontoto icon-less bhabe debe ...
Dharmoshastro bola hoieche naki(seta i ba ki ekta open public property
noi, seta niye kotha bolte gele putoboshon poridhan korte hobe
naki.HEgo kapore bola jabe na? Ekahanei post-modernism amader bhabte
sekhai.
>
>: >>Manusher brain Turin machine noi je eki set of information thakle
>: >>ar ekta algorithm dite parle output eki berube .
>: >
>
>Manusher brain Turing machine-er cheye kono ongshe kom noy. Beshio
noy.
Turing Saheber Machine bhalobaste pare ki ?"illogical swapno ba
romanticism e bhuge kosto pai ki"Portibortoner swopne nije morar moksho
upolobdhi kore ki? Bhule jai ki abar notun kore sristhi korte pare ki?
BAeithoven ar Abbasudin ekshonge melanor swopno dekhe ki (suman kintu
Sudipto r songye alochonai erokomi ki jeno bloechilo).
>
>Indranil.
Rajiv Shukla
: sude...@bu.edu (Sudeshna Das) wrote:
: .. deleted ...
: > MS-windows ekti bichitro jantor, sheti gato deR mash dhore haRe haRe
: > upolobdhi korchhi .....
: >
: > Linux download kara jai kotha theke bolte paro? Amar ek bondhu
: > cheyechhe, deshe niye jetam. Email koro - asa...@us.oracle.com'e.
: >
: There is a fairly complete version of Linux at ftp.uu.net.
: Debashis.
Je kono natun jinish r sangei akta learning curve thake je samay ta besh
frustrating! Especially command line driven Unix world theke eshe PC r
MS Windows ta ektu uncomfortable lagbei, aste aste obbhyash hoye jabe.
By the way, apni ki MS Windows programming r katha bolcchen, tahole oboshyo
alada katha, Windows nijer anek inherent problem acche jegulo Unix e used to
hole abak lagbe, tabe NT ta besh bhalo, try kore dekhben.
Linux download kara jay bate tabe oshab niye India na jaowai bhalo, kicchui
hayto habe na tabe apni software niye international border cross korcchen
janle customs ektu jiggasha-bad korbei. India te linux paowa jay, disk e ba
CD ROM e - jeta chai!
Rajiv
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Apratim Sarkar
>Je kono natun jinish r sangei akta learning curve thake je samay ta besh
>frustrating! Especially command line driven Unix world theke eshe PC r
>MS Windows ta ektu uncomfortable lagbei, aste aste obbhyash hoye jabe.
>By the way, apni ki MS Windows programming r katha bolcchen, tahole oboshyo
>alada katha, Windows nijer anek inherent problem acche jegulo Unix e used to
>hole abak lagbe, tabe NT ta besh bhalo, try kore dekhben.
Ami Windows'e programming'r kathai bolchhi Rajivbabu. VC++ & DLL
ityadi. NT'te jaowa'r upai nei byabshagata karone ...
>Linux download kara jay bate tabe oshab niye India na jaowai bhalo, kicchui
>hayto habe na tabe apni software niye international border cross korcchen
>janle customs ektu jiggasha-bad korbei. India te linux paowa jay, disk e ba
>CD ROM e - jeta chai!
KhNoj dite paren? Email'e?
>Rajiv