A Tribute To Nirad
Abhijit Mitra
Taken from www.hindunet.org/hvk
--------------------------------
Picture this Nirad - The Pioneer
Kanchan Gupta ()
22 November 1997
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Title: Picture this Nirad
Author: Kanchan Gupta
Publication: The Pioneer
Date: November 22, 1997
This Sunday an Indian unknown to most of his countrymen will
enter the one hundred and first year of his life far away from Indian
shores at his semi-detached house on Lathbury Road in Oxford. If
he was unknown in 1951 when his first book, Autobiography of an
Unknown Indian, was published to critical acclaim abroad and
savage criticism at home, there is little reason to believe that
Nirad C Chaudhuri is well-known today - in India, at least. After all,
Three Horse men of the New Apocalypse, which he wrote in the
99th year of his life and is feast for those who delight in reading
Chaudhuri's scathing, incisive commentary on our times, found
rare mention in the native media.
That, in a sense, is the tragedy of this scholar who travelled all the
way from obscure Kishorganj (now in Bangladesh) to his present
abode in Oxford - a journey punctuated by books that shall
survive well beyond the next 100 years. Three classes of Indians
have bothered to take note of this remarkable journey that spans
two centuries, beginning in the year of the Diamond Jubilee of
Queen Victoria. The first comprises people like me who can read
both Bengali and English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter
language even while asserting the Bengali identity. People like
me who are fascinated by Niradbabu's intellect.
The second comprises the "subaltern" variety who delight in
rubbishing that which they are unable to comprehend. Their
knowledge of Niradbabu's work is limited to the oft-quoted but
least understood dedication of his first book: "To the memory of
the British Empire in India....." In the not so-distant past, they were
content to quote the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto, not
having read behind that.
The third comprises those other Indians like Vidya Naipaul
according to whom "Chaudhuri's Autobiography (of an Unknown
Indian) may be the one great book to have come out of the
Indo-English encounter," whose understanding of this land and its
people is far superior than that of their critics at home and, in some
ways, share Niradbabu's tragedy.
Everybody who is anybody in the Indian establishment raced to
greet Arundhati Roy after she won the Booker. The media went
into a tizzy trying to outdo each other in dishing out hype that was
nothing more than tripe. One would be curious to know how many
in the establishment have bothered to send a congratulatory letter
to Niradbabu, if only for the fact that he is this year's winner of the
Vidyasagar award and has completed almost a century of
scholastic pursuit undeterred by the a appalling poverty that
haunted him for many years and the absence of a steady income
after being denied an honour able pension when he retired from
All India Radio.
"Anglo phile", "proud" and "anti-Indian" are some of the epithets
that have been hurled at Niradbabu from time to time. That is
primarily because he has never reneged on his thesis that the
Bengali 'bhadralok' - he is one of the that remain of the original
breed - could not have been what he is but for exposure to all that
was good about the Empire, especially European Enlightenment.
To deny this fact would be to deny the truth. He has preserved an
identity that combines the best of both traditions and in distinctly
different - as well as superior - from what we today know as the
"cosmopolitan identity" that combines the worst of the East and
the West.
"Anglophile" yes, but not an uncritical admirer of the West. On the
contrary, Niradbabu has never spared the West, or for the matter
the Empire, for all that was wrong and has since been going
wrong with Western perceptions and practices. In a sense, he
presents a curious picture of contradictions that seek to outweigh
each other but which he is able to combine in perfect harmony.
When Nirad babu's name comes up during a discussion among
his critics, the image is that of a man dressed in an impeccable
Savile Row suit, bowler hat and bow tie. What is ignored is the
other image of Niradbabu in dhoti and kurta, pottering about his
Oxford home and telling you a thing or two about Hindu cultural
traditions.
Such assertions would make the "subaltern" variety pounce upon
Niradbabu and accuse him of being a "Hindu communalist". After
all, he did refuse to criticise the destruction of the Babri structure -
"I say the Muslims do not have the slightest right to complain
about the desecration of one mosque. From 1000 AD every
Hindu temple from Kathiawar to Bihar, from the Himalayas to
Vindhyas has been sacked and refined..." - and he ago once told
BJP president L.K. Advani that if he had a daughter, he would
have ever allowed her to wear salwar-kameez as it was not a
"Hindu dress" - and has refrained from using the word Indians,
instead substituting it with "Hindu."
For a full explanation, one needs only to go through the opening
essay in The Continent of Circe. "The concept of such an
exclusive society (the dominant human group beyond the Indus)
was naturally associated with the word 'Hindu', and therefore it did
not long remain the simple geographical definition which at first it
was... Indeed, whenever I use it (the word 'Hindu') I feel its cultural
connotation very strongly, and I wish to evoke a cultural type..."
Although forced into exile by Indians who delight in being unkind
to those who prefer to remain unknown rather than conform to
conventional wisdom, Niradbabu has waged a constant battle to
keep this "cultural type" from being stamped out by those who
slavishly pander to all that is depraved about the West even while
claiming to represent the East.
As for that other charge of unremitting pride that is often labeled by
fellow Bengalis, Niradbabu himself answered it through an essay
in Ananda bazar Patrika in 1994. Explaining that any comparisons
that he makes are not with his standards of achievement but
between Bengal's past intellectual glory and present intellectual
poverty, he savages his critics in his inimitable manner, reminding
them that they never accorded his works their due place in the
pantheon of Indian writing - either in Bengali or in English. As I said
in the beginning, Niradbabu's tragedy is that recognition has
come his way not from home but abroad. That is a pity. As is the
fact that most of the people among whom he is not an "unknown
Indian" remember him merely as the author of Autobiography of an Unknown
Indian
(Viking has just published a limited number
edition of this book as a centenary tribute) while his other books
have fetched little or no notice at bell. For instance, The Continent
of Circe is easily the best analysis that has Penned of post 1947
India, placing the present in the larger context of India's past.
Similarly, most Bengalis are ignorant of the bulk of his Bengali
works which, starting from Bangali Jeebane Ramoni, have
systematically analysed the decline and fall of Bengali culture
and traditions.
If a reason must be attributed to this callous disregard for one of
the greatest Indian writer of our times, it is our inability to honour
our achievers while they are alive. Moreover, our callousness
proves our contempt for intellectual pursuit, riveted as we are by
the antics of small, hollow men in high places who have come to
substitute the men who ruled India when it was a part of the British
Empire Happy birthday, Mr Chaudhuri. People like me will fondly
remember you on your jonmodin'.
(Kanchan Gupta works at the S.P. Mookerjee Foundation)
Arnab Gupta
Abhijit Mitra wrote:
>
> Taken from www.hindunet.org/hvk
> --------------------------------
>
> Picture this Nirad - The Pioneer
>
> Kanchan Gupta ()
> 22 November 1997
..[deleted]..
The first comprises people like me who can read
> both Bengali and English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter
> language even while asserting the Bengali identity. People like
> me who are fascinated by Niradbabu's intellect.
>
..[deleted]..
> When Nirad babu's name comes up during a discussion among
> his critics, the image is that of a man dressed in an impeccable
> Savile Row suit, bowler hat and bow tie. What is ignored is the
> other image of Niradbabu in dhoti and kurta, pottering about his
> Oxford home and telling you a thing or two about Hindu cultural
> traditions.
>
I am curious why Kanchan Gupta chose to point out an insignificant
encounter between Niradbabu and L K Advani and stress his "hinduness"
but totally ignored a discussion on NC's book on Hinduism.
Can any knowledgable nettor post few lines on Niradbabu's conception
of Hindusim as expressed in that book ?
Incidentally, there is something funny about that encounter with
L K Advani. The BJP affection for Niradbabu suddenly surged after
his comment on Babri Masjid dispute. Now Niradbabu, as far as
hospitality goes, is truly a "bhadralok" to the core...several
important people who have been to his place have spoken highly
about this (Read Nabanita Deb Sen's article in the last issue of
Desh, e.g.). LKA took an appointment from him and then appeared
at his door on the particular day with an entire group of BJP
leaders and sympathisers! Niradbabu was not really polite when
he pointed out this "abhadrajonochito aachoron" of LKA in a later
interview.
> Such assertions would make the "subaltern" variety pounce upon
> Niradbabu and accuse him of being a "Hindu communalist". After
> all, he did refuse to criticise the destruction of the Babri structure -
> "I say the Muslims do not have the slightest right to complain
> about the desecration of one mosque. From 1000 AD every
> Hindu temple from Kathiawar to Bihar, from the Himalayas to
> Vindhyas has been sacked and refined..." - and he ago once told
> BJP president L.K. Advani that if he had a daughter, he would
> have ever allowed her to wear salwar-kameez as it was not a
> "Hindu dress" - and has refrained from using the word Indians,
> instead substituting it with "Hindu."
This is indeed funny, coming from a person whose "image is that of a
man dressed in an impeccable Savile Row suit, bowler hat and bow tie".
And all the more funny because Kanchan Gupta finds it admirable,
when he himself belongs to that breed who can "read both Bengali and
English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
asserting the Bengali identity". When it comes to confused identity,
it seems that staunch rightists are surprisingly close to their leftist
counterparts in India.
..[deleted]..
Thanks,
Arnab.
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <gup...@mse.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>when he himself belongs to that breed who can "read both Bengali and
>English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
>asserting the Bengali identity". When it comes to confused identity,
I don't think it is necessarily a sign of confused identity. In fact,
it can be a sign of the security the person feels of his Bengali identity,
that he knows that speaking in English is not going to dilute his Bengali
identity in any way.
Arnab Gupta
> >English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
>
> I don't think it is necessarily a sign of confused identity. In fact,
> it can be a sign of the security the person feels of his Bengali identity,
> that he knows that speaking in English is not going to dilute his Bengali
> identity in any way.
Agreed. But I meant something entirely different! Both Kanchan Gupta
and Nirad C find themselves comfortable in English language/attire
but becomes critical of women who wear Salwar-Kameez since
it is supposedly a "non-Hindu" dress. That's what I referred to as
a case of confused identity.
Thanks,
Arnab.
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <gup...@mse.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>>
>> Arnab Gupta <gup...@mse.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
>>
>> I don't think it is necessarily a sign of confused identity. In fact,
>> it can be a sign of the security the person feels of his Bengali identity,
>> that he knows that speaking in English is not going to dilute his Bengali
>> identity in any way.
>
>Agreed. But I meant something entirely different! Both Kanchan Gupta
>and Nirad C find themselves comfortable in English language/attire
>but becomes critical of women who wear Salwar-Kameez since
>it is supposedly a "non-Hindu" dress. That's what I referred to as
>a case of confused identity.
I think it is not so much a case of confused identity as one of male
chauvinism, i.e. it is okay for males to adopt non-traditional attire
or mores, but women will have traditionalism forced down their throats.
An example of this is the recent case, cited in scb, of the Ashutosh
College principal forbidding women students to wear salwar kameez (I
am sure Mr. Shubhankar Banerjee, the said principal, did not issue
any corresponding edict forcing male students of the college to eschew
wearing trousers in favor of dhotis). Double standards enshrining
differential treatment and social attitudes towards male and female
are one of the most characteristic hallmarks of decaying patriarchal
societies, of which Bengali bhadralok society is an excellent specimen.
Supratik Das
On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > >when he himself belongs to that breed who can "read both Bengali and
> > >English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
> > >asserting the Bengali identity". When it comes to confused identity,
> > I don't think it is necessarily a sign of confused identity. In fact,
> > it can be a sign of the security the person feels of his Bengali identity,
> > that he knows that speaking in English is not going to dilute his Bengali
> > identity in any way.
> Agreed. But I meant something entirely different! Both Kanchan Gupta
> and Nirad C find themselves comfortable in English language/attire
> but becomes critical of women who wear Salwar-Kameez since
> it is supposedly a "non-Hindu" dress. That's what I referred to as
> a case of confused identity.
Three corrections:
1) Although NC writes mainly in English, he has written several essays,
critiques, commentaries, etc in Bengali. There are not many Bengalies at
present who has a proper understanding and control of either English or
Bengali to the extent that NC has.
2) NC is considered to be one of the rare Bengali experts on various
aspects of Bengali culture starting from history of Bengali language,
customs, dress, cuisine, history, literature to religion, etc. I cannot
think of a contemporary Bengali academic with such a repertoire.
3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
Western and Eastern dresses.
My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
reading of NC.
NC has a big attitude and is definitely arrogant. Some of his mannerisms
are obnoxious and some ideas obsolete. In short he deserves criticism in a
number of areas but not unqualified ones.
While I disagree completely with NC on a number of issues e.g. his views
on Netaji and other leaders, etc I have to admit that he is an academic
and writer of rare talent and is certainly ahead by miles when compared to
the professional pen pushers posing as intellectuals in present day
progressive Bengal.
Arnab wanted to know about his views on Hinduism. I suggest that you read
the couple of books he has on the subject coz it is too vast to discuss on
ngs. I wish I could discuss NC on this ngs but it is too vast to start
typing a discussion and I don't want to do a humbug progressive job by
denouncing or praising him in a couple of sentences. One warning though.
The gentleman is highly critical of the Bengali Hindu psyche (IMO quite
correctly). So be prepared to take the flak.
Happy reading.
Supratik
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > >English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter language even while
>
> > > I don't think it is necessarily a sign of confused identity. In fact,
> > > it can be a sign of the security the person feels of his Bengali identity,
> > > that he knows that speaking in English is not going to dilute his Bengali
> > > identity in any way.
>
> > Agreed. But I meant something entirely different! Both Kanchan Gupta
> > and Nirad C find themselves comfortable in English language/attire
> > but becomes critical of women who wear Salwar-Kameez since
> > it is supposedly a "non-Hindu" dress. That's what I referred to as
> > a case of confused identity.
>
> Three corrections:
>
Kaar correction korchhen ? Batasher shathey jhogra kora shobhab naki
aapnaar ?
> 1) Although NC writes mainly in English, he has written several essays,
> critiques, commentaries, etc in Bengali. There are not many Bengalies at
> present who has a proper understanding and control of either English or
> Bengali to the extent that NC has.
>
Koto janen! "Finding oneself comfortable in English language/attire"
bolle Bangla-Ta baad porey naki ?
> 2) NC is considered to be one of the rare Bengali experts on various
> aspects of Bengali culture starting from history of Bengali language,
> customs, dress, cuisine, history, literature to religion, etc. I cannot
> think of a contemporary Bengali academic with such a repertoire.
>
True. But then again his writing has a fair share of garbage disguised
as logic, IMO. Add to this his narrowness in certain aspects (as with
the "dress-code" for Indian women, I mentioned above). What's more
pathetic is that he tries to analyse today's Bengali mindset from his
own experiences. And when was the last time he was in Calcutta/WB/
India ?
> 3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
> to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
> Western and Eastern dresses.
>
So ?
> My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
> obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
> reading of NC.
>
I have only criticised NC's confused views about the relation of
a person's dress with his/her identity. Nothing more. Read
properly before you jump in with your "obvious guesses".
EkTu pore bolun noito shobTai je shei Rabindranath-er shoponocharini-r
moddhe poromeshwor-er bhut dyakhar moto hoye jaabe Supratikbabu! :-)
> NC has a big attitude and is definitely arrogant. Some of his mannerisms
> are obnoxious and some ideas obsolete. In short he deserves criticism in a
> number of areas but not unqualified ones.
>
No one deserves unqualified criticism. Apnio non, shotti bolchhi!
> While I disagree completely with NC on a number of issues e.g. his views
> on Netaji and other leaders, etc I have to admit that he is an academic
> and writer of rare talent and is certainly ahead by miles when compared to
> the professional pen pushers posing as intellectuals in present day
> progressive Bengal.
>
EkTu agei "unqualified criticism" niye kishob bollen je! Erokom khoney
khoney scale change koren kyano ?
> Arnab wanted to know about his views on Hinduism. I suggest that you read
> the couple of books he has on the subject
Kon kon boi ? AykTa jani "Hinduism, a religion to live by". Onyogulor
naam janan.
coz it is too vast to discuss on
> ngs. I wish I could discuss NC on this ngs but it is too vast to start
> typing a discussion and I don't want to do a humbug progressive job by
> denouncing or praising him in a couple of sentences.
Thik..Thik...amaro tai mot...ager obhiGYota gulo bhalo noi e byapare
bujhlen. Purono SCB-ite-ra e byapare hoito amar shonge aykmot hoben...
kintu tNara to aar ashen na apnaar "denouncing or praising" everyone "
in a couple of sentences." portey.
Dhonyobaad,
Arnab.
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Arnab,
Supratik er opar besh bhaloi jharle. Chede dao chede dao-Amritang
Supratik Bhashitam!!
Nirad C.Chaudhuri er English boi gulo aami pori ni. Kichu Bangla lekha
porechhi (sorry Naam bote parbo na)-ta pore aamar ja mone hoyechhe ta
hochhe je
a) Bhadralok oprashongik bhabe nijer dhak petan.
b) Onar argument gulo beshir bhag i anecdotal. Ei dhoroner argument er
upar amar motei shroddha nei.
Ei duto karone aami Nirad er English boi porte utshaho bodh korini-jibon
e to aar shob boi pora jabe na!
Tomar Jana -Gana er article ta thik thak kore likhe phelo-shonirboddho
onurodh.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
http://finance.commerce.ubc.ca/~bhatta
"The lifestyle of the Indian elite is amazing...I've never seen
such opulence even in America"---Noam Chomsky in New Delhi in 1996
Arnab Gupta
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
..[deleted]..
> Tomar Jana -Gana er article ta thik thak kore likhe phelo-shonirboddho
> onurodh.
>
hmmm... cheshTa kortey hobey...maybe I'll also request Dinesh
Agrawal or Nachiketa Tiwari to keep a copy in the HinduNet (after
all Mr. Das said somewhere that RSS has changed its views on
Janaganamana now). :-)
It seems, repenting for ealier sins is an "in" thing now. The Communist
Party of India has already started it back home by publishing their
archived "sensitive" documents. It's really amusing how our leftists
and rightists get "inspiration" from each other! :-)
Thanks,
Arnab.
sayan bhattacharyya
Arnab Gupta <gup...@mse.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>It seems, repenting for ealier sins is an "in" thing now. The Communist
>Party of India has already started it back home by publishing their
>archived "sensitive" documents. It's really amusing how our leftists
>and rightists get "inspiration" from each other! :-)
>
That is a somewhat cynical thing to say. Both individuals (people)
and collectives (organizations) do change their views over time.
We all do. It is a natural human truth that views do not stay
static over time.
To suspect hypocrisy *simply* because someone changed their
views is a trifle hasty. I think what one should watch for is
whether the supposedly changed views are accompanied by
corresponding changes in *behavior*. If they are not, that
is when the cynicism is justified, but not before. And this
holds for both the so-called leftists and for the right-wingers.
Supratik Das
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > Three corrections:
> Kaar correction korchhen ? Batasher shathey jhogra kora shobhab naki
> aapnaar ?
Apnar oboshoyi. Batasher songe jhogra thik noi. Apni bhul bolchilen tai
khei dhoriye dilam.
> > 1) Although NC writes mainly in English, he has written several essays,
> > critiques, commentaries, etc in Bengali. There are not many Bengalies at
> > present who has a proper understanding and control of either English or
> > Bengali to the extent that NC has.
> Koto janen!
Irrelevant point. You were arguing that he wrote only in English to which
I pointed out he wrote equally well in Bengali.
"Finding oneself comfortable in English language/attire"
> bolle Bangla-Ta baad porey naki ?
I guess thats what my point was!! That he wrote equally well in both
languages.
> > 2) NC is considered to be one of the rare Bengali experts on various
> > aspects of Bengali culture starting from history of Bengali language,
> > customs, dress, cuisine, history, literature to religion, etc. I cannot
> > think of a contemporary Bengali academic with such a repertoire.
> True. But then again his writing has a fair share of garbage disguised
> as logic, IMO. Add to this his narrowness in certain aspects (as with
> the "dress-code" for Indian women, I mentioned above).
Thats his opinion. I don't see whats so narrow about it. If I don't like
Bengali women wearing bikini thats my opinion. You can claim it to be a
conservative viewpoint but not narrowness.
What's more
> pathetic is that he tries to analyse today's Bengali mindset from his
> own experiences. And when was the last time he was in Calcutta/WB/
> India ?
A valid arguement. However, I don't think the present mindset of the
Bengali has changed much from his time. Again thats my opinion.
> > 3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
> > to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
> > Western and Eastern dresses.
> So ?
A self-contradictory question!!!
Anyway, so, it means that he is not uncomfortable in dhoti just becoz he
may be comfortable in a suit.
> > My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
> > obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
> > reading of NC.
> I have only criticised NC's confused views about the relation of
> a person's dress with his/her identity. Nothing more. Read
> properly before you jump in with your "obvious guesses".
'Confused' is the last word I'll use about NC. 'Opinionated' - yes. Again
it shows you have
very little idea about his works.
> EkTu pore bolun noito shobTai je shei Rabindranath-er shoponocharini-r
> moddhe poromeshwor-er bhut dyakhar moto hoye jaabe Supratikbabu! :-)
Don't worry. I read very carefully. However, make sure you write
carefully. It is unlikely you will get away with making garbage statements
on scb.
> > NC has a big attitude and is definitely arrogant. Some of his mannerisms
> > are obnoxious and some ideas obsolete. In short he deserves criticism in a
> > number of areas but not unqualified ones.
> No one deserves unqualified criticism. Apnio non, shotti bolchhi!
Good to know that.
> > While I disagree completely with NC on a number of issues e.g. his views
> > on Netaji and other leaders, etc I have to admit that he is an academic
> > and writer of rare talent and is certainly ahead by miles when compared to
> > the professional pen pushers posing as intellectuals in present day
> > progressive Bengal.
> EkTu agei "unqualified criticism" niye kishob bollen je! Erokom khoney
> khoney scale change koren kyano ?
I guess I can safely claim to have read NC and some contemporary
literature as well to come to the conclusion. My main objection to NC is
what you correctly stated as his lack of objectivity vis-a-vis
contemporary Bengal and his political analysis is biased by his
anglo-philia, etc, etc. However, as you will notice I have mentioned in
the last line that it would not be possible to go into detailed discussion
on NC in the ngps. The above line merely is a statement. I have based it
on the recent works that have come out in Bengali literature of which I am
highly critical off. Anyway that perhaps constitutes a seperate thread.
> > Arnab wanted to know about his views on Hinduism. I suggest that you read
> > the couple of books he has on the subject
> Kon kon boi ? AykTa jani "Hinduism, a religion to live by". Onyogulor
> naam janan.
I'll try to compile a list and send it to you if I find the time.
> coz it is too vast to discuss on
> > ngs. I wish I could discuss NC on this ngs but it is too vast to start
> > typing a discussion and I don't want to do a humbug progressive job by
> > denouncing or praising him in a couple of sentences.
> Thik..Thik...amaro tai mot...ager obhiGYota gulo bhalo noi e byapare
> bujhlen. Purono SCB-ite-ra e byapare hoito amar shonge aykmot hoben...
> kintu tNara to aar ashen na apnaar "denouncing or praising" everyone "
> in a couple of sentences." portey.
It is irrelevant what I have to say. I do not claim to be a progressive
humbug. I am a very ordinary human being with enough intelligence to see
through that your criticism of NC was emperical in certain aspects. Hence,
I pointed them out to you.
Having done that I'll keep off this discussion for reasons stated above.
Supratik
Supratik Das
On 12 Dec 1997, Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> Nirad C.Chaudhuri er English boi gulo aami pori ni.
You should. You will disagree on a number of counts but you will agree
that he has tremendous control over the language and is a writer par
excellance.
Kichu Bangla lekha
> porechhi (sorry Naam bote parbo na)-ta pore aamar ja mone hoyechhe ta
> hochhe je
> a) Bhadralok oprashongik bhabe nijer dhak petan.
At times, yes.
> b) Onar argument gulo beshir bhag i anecdotal. Ei dhoroner argument er
> upar amar motei shroddha nei.
It is not clear to me what you mean by the above.
> Ei duto karone aami Nirad er English boi porte utshaho bodh korini-jibon
> e to aar shob boi pora jabe na!
Same as above.
Raghu Seshadri
sayan bhattacharyya (bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
: wearing trousers in favor of dhotis). Double standards enshrining
: are one of the most characteristic hallmarks of decaying patriarchal
: societies, of which Bengali bhadralok society is an excellent specimen.
No argument with your main point about
double-standards, which is true enough,
but I think you are too harsh on Bengali
bhadraloks. After all Islamic societies
are patriarchal and are notorious for
their double standards, but they are not
decaying at all, they are flourishing like
the green bay tree. So I don't see where
you got the "decaying" bit.
RS
sayan bhattacharyya
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Kon kon boi ? AykTa jani "Hinduism, a religion to live by". Onyogulor
>> naam janan.
>
>I'll try to compile a list and send it to you if I find the time.
Why send it to Arnab privately? Why not post the list here on the net
so that all of us can benefit?
Thanks,
-Sayan.
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > Three corrections:
>
> > Kaar correction korchhen ? Batasher shathey jhogra kora shobhab naki
> > aapnaar ?
>
> Apnar oboshoyi. Batasher songe jhogra thik noi. Apni bhul bolchilen tai
> khei dhoriye dilam.
Ki bhul ?
>
> > > 1) Although NC writes mainly in English, he has written several essays,
> > > critiques, commentaries, etc in Bengali. There are not many Bengalies at
> > > present who has a proper understanding and control of either English or
> > > Bengali to the extent that NC has.
>
> > Koto janen!
>
> Irrelevant point. You were arguing that he wrote only in English to which
> I pointed out he wrote equally well in Bengali.
Let me call you a liar. Prove that I said "he wrote only in
English"
>
> "Finding oneself comfortable in English language/attire"
> > bolle Bangla-Ta baad porey naki ?
>
> I guess thats what my point was!! That he wrote equally well in both
> languages.
If you understood it, then what did you find wrong in my statement ?
Haat nishpish korey naki obantor kotha lekhar jonyo ?
>
> > > 2) NC is considered to be one of the rare Bengali experts on various
> > > aspects of Bengali culture starting from history of Bengali language,
> > > customs, dress, cuisine, history, literature to religion, etc. I cannot
> > > think of a contemporary Bengali academic with such a repertoire.
>
> > True. But then again his writing has a fair share of garbage disguised
> > as logic, IMO. Add to this his narrowness in certain aspects (as with
> > the "dress-code" for Indian women, I mentioned above).
>
> Thats his opinion. I don't see whats so narrow about it. If I don't like
> Bengali women wearing bikini thats my opinion. You can claim it to be a
> conservative viewpoint but not narrowness.
>
There is definitely something narrow in it. If you understand the
meaning of the term "hypocrisy" (which NC has displayed amply here
by setting two different standards for himself and Bengali women)
you will understant what's very narrow in it. But I guess you will
overlook it, just like Mr. Kanchan Gupta did.
> What's more
> > pathetic is that he tries to analyse today's Bengali mindset from his
> > own experiences. And when was the last time he was in Calcutta/WB/
> > India ?
>
> A valid arguement. However, I don't think the present mindset of the
> Bengali has changed much from his time. Again thats my opinion.
>
kuo-te baash koren naki ?
> > > 3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
> > > to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
> > > Western and Eastern dresses.
>
> > So ?
>
> A self-contradictory question!!!
> Anyway, so, it means that he is not uncomfortable in dhoti just becoz he
> may be comfortable in a suit.
>
And where did I contradict that ?
> > > My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
> > > obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
> > > reading of NC.
>
> > I have only criticised NC's confused views about the relation of
> > a person's dress with his/her identity. Nothing more. Read
> > properly before you jump in with your "obvious guesses".
>
> 'Confused' is the last word I'll use about NC. 'Opinionated' - yes. Again
> it shows you have
> very little idea about his works.
>
Do you have reading disability ? I have written "confused views about
the relation of a person's dress with his/her identity". Where did
I comment about him in general ?
> > EkTu pore bolun noito shobTai je shei Rabindranath-er shoponocharini-r
> > moddhe poromeshwor-er bhut dyakhar moto hoye jaabe Supratikbabu! :-)
>
> Don't worry. I read very carefully. However, make sure you write
> carefully. It is unlikely you will get away with making garbage statements
> on scb.
>
I'm not making up things. Sayan asked the meaning of the second stanza
of je chhilo amar shoponocharini". You did have an absurd explanation
for that. People pointed it out to you that you probably haven't read
the original Tagore composition otherwise you wouldn't have said
something so stupid. Check out dejanews, if you wish.
..[deleted]..
> > EkTu agei "unqualified criticism" niye kishob bollen je! Erokom khoney
> > khoney scale change koren kyano ?
>
> I guess I can safely claim to have read NC and some contemporary
> literature as well to come to the conclusion. My main objection to NC is
> what you correctly stated as his lack of objectivity vis-a-vis
> contemporary Bengal and his political analysis is biased by his
> anglo-philia, etc, etc. However, as you will notice I have mentioned in
> the last line that it would not be possible to go into detailed discussion
> on NC in the ngps. The above line merely is a statement. I have based it
> on the recent works that have come out in Bengali literature of which I am
> highly critical off. Anyway that perhaps constitutes a seperate thread.
>
Thanks for the explanation. I was implied something else. If you
object to unqualified criticism of NiradC you should not judge other
viewpoints in the way you do on this newsgroup.
> > > Arnab wanted to know about his views on Hinduism. I suggest that you read
> > > the couple of books he has on the subject
>
> > Kon kon boi ? AykTa jani "Hinduism, a religion to live by". Onyogulor
> > naam janan.
>
> I'll try to compile a list and send it to you if I find the time.
>
Post on this newsgroup, preferably when this discussion is going on.
> > coz it is too vast to discuss on
> > > ngs. I wish I could discuss NC on this ngs but it is too vast to start
> > > typing a discussion and I don't want to do a humbug progressive job by
> > > denouncing or praising him in a couple of sentences.
>
> > Thik..Thik...amaro tai mot...ager obhiGYota gulo bhalo noi e byapare
> > bujhlen. Purono SCB-ite-ra e byapare hoito amar shonge aykmot hoben...
> > kintu tNara to aar ashen na apnaar "denouncing or praising" everyone "
> > in a couple of sentences." portey.
>
> It is irrelevant what I have to say. I do not claim to be a progressive
> humbug.
Not so sure about the first adjective. But the second one - yes,
you are.
..[deleted]..
> Having done that I'll keep off this discussion for reasons stated above.
>
What reasons ? Are you going to search for names of books ? It seems
we have to wait for a lifetime then.
Thanks,
Arnab.
Arnab Gupta
Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I was implied something else. If you
Sorry, that should read "I implied something else"
Thanks,
Arnab.
Sambit Basu
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu> wrote in article
<66ql1o$8cl$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>...
> Double standards enshrining
> differential treatment and social attitudes towards male and female
> are one of the most characteristic hallmarks of decaying patriarchal
> societies, of which Bengali bhadralok society is an excellent specimen.
Eta-o ki Suman-er baani?
Sambit
Arindam Banerjee
> Title: Picture this Nirad
> Author: Kanchan Gupta
> Publication: The Pioneer
> Date: November 22, 1997
>
> This Sunday an Indian unknown to most of his countrymen will
> enter the one hundred and first year of his life far away from Indian
Living up to 100 is Niradbabu's greatest achievement.
> shores at his semi-detached house on Lathbury Road in Oxford. If
> he was unknown in 1951 when his first book, Autobiography of an
> Unknown Indian, was published to critical acclaim abroad and
> savage criticism at home,
I do not think this was savagely criticised, certainly not as much as
"Continent of Circe" - a most exquisite insult, that title.
there is little reason to believe that
> Nirad C Chaudhuri is well-known today - in India, at least. After all,
> Three Horse men of the New Apocalypse, which he wrote in the
> 99th year of his life and is feast for those who delight in reading
> Chaudhuri's scathing, incisive commentary on our times, found
> rare mention in the native media.
Niradbabu has made himself quite irrelevant, that is why. He got a lot
of foreign attention by rubbishing Indians, in fact it is obvious from the
copious Latin, French stuff in his writings that he does not write for the
Indian. I suppose rubbishing Indians does not pay that much these days
when Western society is looking for alternative models.
>
> That, in a sense, is the tragedy of this scholar who travelled all the
> way from obscure Kishorganj (now in Bangladesh) to his present
> abode in Oxford - a journey punctuated by books that shall
> survive well beyond the next 100 years.
His books are good in a way. They teach you to think, as they are
as full of sense as nonsense. Niradbabu is at least a good if selective
observer.
Three classes of Indians
> have bothered to take note of this remarkable journey that spans
> two centuries, beginning in the year of the Diamond Jubilee of
> Queen Victoria. The first comprises people like me who can read
> both Bengali and English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter
> language even while asserting the Bengali identity. People like
> me who are fascinated by Niradbabu's intellect.
I found Niradbabu's intellect selective, shallow and self-serving. He is
quite witty, though, and that is something in the Indian context.
He is usually completely wrong. The way he dismisses Buddhism in
"C. of C" is appalling. Besides, he shows a low opinion for engineers,
the leaders to worthwhile changes. He says Hinduism is a new religion
which peaked in the nineteenth century!
>
> The second comprises the "subaltern" variety who delight in
> rubbishing that which they are unable to comprehend. Their
> knowledge of Niradbabu's work is limited to the oft-quoted but
> least understood dedication of his first book: "To the memory of
> the British Empire in India....." In the not so-distant past, they were
> content to quote the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto, not
> having read behind that.
Niradbabu has been rubbished soundly for very good reasons. It is
not difficult to do that. His central thesis is that Indians are Europeans
trapped in a hot country, and thereby decadent. Now Australians are
Europeans in a hotter country, and they show no signs of decadence.
>
> The third comprises those other Indians like Vidya Naipaul
> according to whom "Chaudhuri's Autobiography (of an Unknown
> Indian) may be the one great book to have come out of the
> Indo-English encounter,"
Nonsense, this book is quite mediocre and can only appeal to those
who have no idea at all about Indian and Indians.
> whose understanding of this land and its
> people is far superior than that of their critics at home and, in some
> ways, share Niradbabu's tragedy.
So Kanchan Gupta is allowing that he is inferior to someone who has
rarely lived in India, indeed people at "home" are necessarily inferior
to critics abroad? This sort of thinking comes from deifying Max Mueller,
a man who wrote much about India without even touching her shores.
>
> Everybody who is anybody in the Indian establishment raced to
> greet Arundhati Roy after she won the Booker. The media went
> into a tizzy trying to outdo each other in dishing out hype that was
> nothing more than tripe.
And why not, she got millions of dollars and lots of Western media
association?
One would be curious to know how many
> in the establishment have bothered to send a congratulatory letter
> to Niradbabu,
Why should they bother, to do this to a man who became famous
with his face on the cover of KS's "Illustrated Weekly of India"
saying "Why I hate Indians"?
if only for the fact that he is this year's winner of the
> Vidyasagar award and has completed almost a century of
> scholastic pursuit undeterred by the a appalling poverty that
> haunted him for many years
About this poverty of Niradbabu.
I mentioned that to Mani Babu, in an interview I had with him
Mani Babu had been a close associate of Subhas Bose, and had
spent most of his life in jail. I was interviewing him because he
had been a "guest" at the Hijli jail (the old building of IIT Kharagpur).
"Sarat babu ki onakay beton diten na?" he asked quite angrily.
Another incident - I once dined at Niradbabu's dining table. I admired it,
it was really sumptuous. The owner told me he had bought if from
Niradbabu's son.
Now if Niradbabu did not make money after rubbishing Indians so
thoroughly for Westerners, he must be quite foolish.
and the absence of a steady income
> after being denied an honour able pension when he retired from
> All India Radio.
In Niradbabu's favour I must say he is a truly proud and honourable
man. A relation (a ICS officer) told me how he had gone to Niradbabu
to patch up matters. AIR wanted to overlook matters, he said. Niradbabu
proudly replied that while that may be all right for AIR, he was not relenting.
> "Anglo phile", "proud" and "anti-Indian" are some of the epithets
> that have been hurled at Niradbabu from time to time. That is
> primarily because he has never reneged on his thesis that the
> Bengali 'bhadralok' - he is one of the that remain of the original
> breed - could not have been what he is but for exposure to all that
> was good about the Empire, especially European Enlightenment.
Another half-true, half-stupid theory.
More true it is that the English became human after being brought
up by Indian ayahs. This is the essence of "The Secret Garden".
And through them, the Europeans, who now have the basis for such
peace they never experienced throughout their bloody history.
> To deny this fact would be to deny the truth. He has preserved an
> identity that combines the best of both traditions and in distinctly
> different - as well as superior - from what we today know as the
> "cosmopolitan identity" that combines the worst of the East and
> the West.
So who wants to follow in the footsteps of Mr Nirad Chaudhuri?
> "Anglophile" yes, but not an uncritical admirer of the West. On the
> contrary, Niradbabu has never spared the West, or for the matter
> the Empire, for all that was wrong and has since been going
> wrong with Western perceptions and practices.
True up to a point, but Niradbabu is revolted by modern Western ways.
As a conservative, he likes India more today because India is more
conservative than the West.
> In a sense, he
> presents a curious picture of contradictions that seek to outweigh
> each other but which he is able to combine in perfect harmony.
> When Nirad babu's name comes up during a discussion among
> his critics, the image is that of a man dressed in an impeccable
> Savile Row suit, bowler hat and bow tie. What is ignored is the
> other image of Niradbabu in dhoti and kurta, pottering about his
> Oxford home and telling you a thing or two about Hindu cultural
> traditions.
Hunmph.
NIradbabu's thighs are not strong enough to hold together two
boats tending to go in different directions. Like a bird, he can only
hop from one to another.
> Such assertions would make the "subaltern" variety pounce upon
> Niradbabu and accuse him of being a "Hindu communalist". After
> all, he did refuse to criticise the destruction of the Babri structure -
> "I say the Muslims do not have the slightest right to complain
> about the desecration of one mosque.
I do not accuse him of being a communalist, but one possessed of
a totally wrong perspective. The Muslims have every right to protest
against a crime in present India....
From 1000 AD every
> Hindu temple from Kathiawar to Bihar, from the Himalayas to
> Vindhyas has been sacked and refined..." - and he ago once told
... no matter what the history.
> BJP president L.K. Advani that if he had a daughter, he would
> have ever allowed her to wear salwar-kameez as it was not a
> "Hindu dress" - and has refrained from using the word Indians,
> instead substituting it with "Hindu."
So it was okay for her to wear a micro-miniskirt?
Such words are of course music for Advaniji, but one would strongly
hesitate to make Niradbabu of all persons a champion of Hindutva, so
much is his contempt for Hinduism and Hindus, as a sort of closet
fundamentalist Christian, even though he prefers to call himself free
from religion. (In his book "Hinduism")
> For a full explanation, one needs only to go through the opening
> essay in The Continent of Circe. "The concept of such an
> exclusive society (the dominant human group beyond the Indus)
> was naturally associated with the word 'Hindu', and therefore it did
> not long remain the simple geographical definition which at first it
> was... Indeed, whenever I use it (the word 'Hindu') I feel its cultural
> connotation very strongly, and I wish to evoke a cultural type..."
Again music for Advaniji.
He should read what NC has to say about banias.
> Although forced into exile by Indians who delight in being unkind
> to those who prefer to remain unknown rather than conform to
> conventional wisdom,
No one forced him to go away. The delights of the Bodlein (sp?) library
in Oxford cannot be matched. Anyway a chap who publishes his
autobiography can hardly be said to be one who prefers to remain unknown.
>
> If a reason must be attributed to this callous disregard for one of
> the greatest Indian writer of our times, it is our inability to honour
> our achievers while they are alive.
A greater inability lies in not even knowing let alone recognising who
the real achievers in India are.
Moreover, our callousness
> proves our contempt for intellectual pursuit, riveted as we are by
> the antics of small, hollow men in high places who have come to
> substitute the men who ruled India when it was a part of the British
If we must admire the white British so much, let us see how and why
the brown British (NC is the supreme example) have failed.
> Empire Happy birthday, Mr Chaudhuri. People like me will fondly
> remember you on your jonmodin'.
My reaction is lukewarm. It is sad that a land which produced Rabindranath,
Bankim, Nazrul, Saratchandra, Aurobindo, Vivekanand and so many
others is expected to look up to Nirad Chaudhuri.
Arindam Banerjee
Disclaimer: My opinions do not involve my employer.
Anindya Ghoshal
Abhijit Mitra wrote:
>
> Taken from www.hindunet.org/hvk
> --------------------------------
>
> Picture this Nirad - The Pioneer
>
> Kanchan Gupta ()
> 22 November 1997
>
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>
> Title: Picture this Nirad
> Author: Kanchan Gupta
> Publication: The Pioneer
> Date: November 22, 1997
>
>
>
>
>
> Niradbabu and accuse him of being a "Hindu communalist". After
> all, he did refuse to criticise the destruction of the Babri structure -
> "I say the Muslims do not have the slightest right to complain
> about the desecration of one mosque. From 1000 AD every
> Hindu temple from Kathiawar to Bihar, from the Himalayas to
> Vindhyas has been sacked and refined..." - and he ago once told
> BJP president L.K. Advani that if he had a daughter, he would
> have ever allowed her to wear salwar-kameez as it was not a
> "Hindu dress" - and has refrained from using the word Indians,
> instead substituting it with "Hindu."
NC also asked LK Advani how can he claim to be Hindu or a Hindu
leader if he doesn't know Sanskrit. NC quoted the first verse
of KumaraSambhava and Mr. Advani failed to recognize from which book
it was. NC found out Mr. Advani haven't read any of Kalidasa's works
neither had he any knowledge of the Vedas. To which NC threw out
LK Advani and his chelas from his house. This episode
reminded of an interview that Advani gave to The Telegraph before
he embarked on his Hanuman jatra. In that interview, he clearly defined
himself to be an atheist and that he hardly ever attends religious
ceremonies. Unless he is a Charvak-panthi which he is not, by any stretch
of definition NC seems to be correct in assuming that Advani is anything
but a Hindu. It is curious that Mr. Gupta failed to mention the full
episode..the rightist Hindu fundees have rendered NC as anti-Hindu
and it looks like if Mr. Gupta's article is any indicator then the RSS
folks are re-assessing NC now.
Anindo.
Pradip Gangopadhyay
Anindya Ghoshal <ani...@teamqsi.com> wrote:
>Subject: Re: A Tribute To Nirad
>NC also asked LK Advani how can he claim to be Hindu or a Hindu
>leader if he doesn't know Sanskrit.
>.......
>Anindo.
How many hindus in today's India know Sanskrit? NC seems to have a very narrow
definition for a Hindu. NC's definition would make the bulk of todays Hindus
non-hindus!
Pradip
Anindya Ghoshal
Well I think it is fair of NC to enquire whether Advani knew Sanskrit as Advani
claimed to be leader of the party that is supposed to expouse Hindutva. I myself
don't see anything wrong of NC, to ask of such a person, whether he has enough
knowledge of the scriptures and other main Hindu literature which are mostly
written in Sanskrit. Advani's lack of Sanskritic background and knowledge in
most Hindu literatures gave away his pretensions of understanding Hindutva.
It is just a mere reflection of how RSS/SanghParivar/BJP led mob are trying
to hijack the Hindutva plank (i) without themselves having adequate knowledge
in Hinduism and (ii)using Hinduism to gain power. That's what all those monkey
dance all about: POWER!!!
> Pradip
BTW, NC claimed himself to be a Bengali, Hindu and an Englishman. Wasn't the
other article by this same Kanchan Gupta ridiculed Nehru for considering himself
the Last Englishman? Why the dichotomy in Mr. Gupta's analysis? NC doesn't even
consider himself to be an Indian.
Anindo.
--
Pradip Gangopadhyay
Anindya Ghoshal <ani...@teamqsi.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: A Tribute To Nirad
>Well I think it is fair of NC to enquire whether Advani knew Sanskrit as
>Advani claimed to be leader of the party that is supposed to expouse Hindutva
>. I myself don't see anything wrong of NC, to ask of such a person, whether
>he has enough knowledge of the scriptures and other main Hindu literature
>which are mostly written in Sanskrit. Advani's lack of Sanskritic background
>and knowledge in most Hindu literatures gave away his pretensions of
>understanding Hindutva.
Advani is not claiming to be a leader. He is the leader because he has the
support of a large number of people. If those people do not care about his
lack of knowledge of Hindu scriptures why should NC?
There is also the other point that I was trying to make. It is impossible to
define a Hindu since it spans from the Lokayat position to theistic position
to monistic position to monistic and theistic position to no position at all.
A person's knowledge of Sanskrit has nothing to do with it. There are many
Tamil Hindus who worship in Tamil without a trace of Sanskrit. As far as I
know Advani claims that he is not a religious Hindu but a cultural one. So why
on earth should he read the Hindu scriptures? Who is NC to decide whether a
person is a Hindu or not? Also, there is no mention in the Hindu scriptures
about the necessity of knowing Sanskrit.
>It is just a mere reflection of how RSS/SanghParivar/BJP led mob are trying
>to hijack the Hindutva plank (i) without themselves having adequate knowledge
>in Hinduism and (ii)using Hinduism to gain power. That's what all those monkey
>dance all about: POWER!!!
Yes, I agree with you. But then show me which politician or political
party in India is not selling something to gain power. Some monkeys are
selling communism, some caste and some Hinduism. It just seems to me that
those who are not able to sell well are jealous of the Hinduism sellers. It
also seems to me that a large number of people are currently tired of the
leftist and caste sellers and taking a look at the Hinduism sellers.
[....]
>Anindo.
Pradip
Supratik Das
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > Apnar oboshoyi. Batasher songe jhogra thik noi. Apni bhul bolchilen tai
> > khei dhoriye dilam.
> Ki bhul ?
Abar prothom theke shuru korte hobe naki? I suggest you go through the
thread and find out yourself. I have better things to do than spoon feed
immature adults.
> > Irrelevant point. You were arguing that he wrote only in English to which
> > I pointed out he wrote equally well in Bengali.
> Let me call you a liar.
Let me call you a dickhead. Wouldn't solve a single problem with hurling
abuses at each other. Those who tried that with me have failed so far. You
want to try, dickhead?? I am all game.
Prove that I said "he wrote only in
> English"
Your mail implied that. In fact that was one of your major complaints.
You are back tracking now.
> > "Finding oneself comfortable in English language/attire"
> > > bolle Bangla-Ta baad porey naki ?
> > I guess thats what my point was!! That he wrote equally well in both
> > languages.
> If you understood it, then what did you find wrong in my statement ?
> Haat nishpish korey naki obantor kotha lekhar jonyo ?
I think you have backtracked from your original position and are trying
to cover up by acting smart. I'll let you go on this as you have basically
reverted to my point.
> > > True. But then again his writing has a fair share of garbage disguised
> > > as logic, IMO. Add to this his narrowness in certain aspects (as with
> > > the "dress-code" for Indian women, I mentioned above).
> > Thats his opinion. I don't see whats so narrow about it. If I don't like
> > Bengali women wearing bikini thats my opinion. You can claim it to be a
> > conservative viewpoint but not narrowness.
> There is definitely something narrow in it.
Conservative yes, narrow no.
If you understand the
> meaning of the term "hypocrisy" (which NC has displayed amply here
> by setting two different standards for himself and Bengali women)
> you will understant what's very narrow in it. But I guess you will
> overlook it, just like Mr. Kanchan Gupta did.
We have no arguements about NCs anglophilia. Since you are getting more
and more off the original point, let me remind you that my original post
had showed that you had three mistakes which I corrected. If you have
forgotten go back and check out.
I have no great sympathy for NC but I think he is one of the best Bengali
writer's at present (you may disagree with the content of what he writes)
and that he is an authority on various aspects of Bengali culture as he is
on English culture.
> > What's more
> > > pathetic is that he tries to analyse today's Bengali mindset from his
> > > own experiences. And when was the last time he was in Calcutta/WB/
> > > India ?
> > A valid arguement. However, I don't think the present mindset of the
> > Bengali has changed much from his time. Again thats my opinion.
> kuo-te baash koren naki ?
Bujhlam Na er songe kuote bash korar somporko ki!!! Apni okarone chalaki
marar chesta korchen. You are trying very hard to sound sarcastic. Gotta
do better.
> > > > 3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
> > > > to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
> > > > Western and Eastern dresses.
> > > So ?
> > A self-contradictory question!!!
> > Anyway, so, it means that he is not uncomfortable in dhoti just becoz he
> > may be comfortable in a suit.
> And where did I contradict that ?
Again you have moved from your original point. I don't think this
discussion is going anywhere since your stand is continously shifting.
You are going around in circles like the dog trying to grab his tail.
> > > > My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
> > > > obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
> > > > reading of NC.
> > > I have only criticised NC's confused views about the relation of
> > > a person's dress with his/her identity. Nothing more. Read
> > > properly before you jump in with your "obvious guesses".
> > 'Confused' is the last word I'll use about NC. 'Opinionated' - yes. Again
> > it shows you have
> > very little idea about his works.
> Do you have reading disability ?
Not really. Just have difficulty in understanding dimwit morons.
I have written "confused views about
> the relation of a person's dress with his/her identity". Where did
> I comment about him in general ?
So the person is not confused but his views are!!! Interesting!! Are we
going into self and non-self!!??
> > > EkTu pore bolun noito shobTai je shei Rabindranath-er shoponocharini-r
> > > moddhe poromeshwor-er bhut dyakhar moto hoye jaabe Supratikbabu! :-)
> > Don't worry. I read very carefully. However, make sure you write
> > carefully. It is unlikely you will get away with making garbage statements
> > on scb.
> I'm not making up things. Sayan asked the meaning of the second stanza
> of je chhilo amar shoponocharini". You did have an absurd explanation
> for that. People pointed it out to you that you probably haven't read
> the original Tagore composition otherwise you wouldn't have said
> something so stupid. Check out dejanews, if you wish.
I don't know what this has got to do with the present discussion unless
you are bringing it to score a point. I am also surprised that you guys
are so happy with such a minor point - wrong explanation of a stanza. It
proves that you are in desperate need of points to put me down. So you
haven't read much of certain things and I haven't read much of certain
things. Whazza big deal?
As we have finally agreed on most of the points I raised that he cannot be
painted with a one-sided picture of an anglophile wearing a bowling hat
and utterly critical of everything Indian/Bengali, etc (which is also a
fact to a great extent) but that there are other aspects of him too which
needs to be appreciated - there is no point in continuing this discussion
(I am short on time, anyway).
As for the books - on second thoughts I will skip that part. I don't think
you are looking for books but another brownie point.
Supratik
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > Apnar oboshoyi. Batasher songe jhogra thik noi. Apni bhul bolchilen tai
> > > khei dhoriye dilam.
>
> > Ki bhul ?
>
> Abar prothom theke shuru korte hobe naki? I suggest you go through the
> thread and find out yourself. I have better things to do than spoon feed
> immature adults.
>
Kete porben na. The accusation was yours. State clearly (quoting me)
where I was wrong.
> > > Irrelevant point. You were arguing that he wrote only in English to which
> > > I pointed out he wrote equally well in Bengali.
>
> > Let me call you a liar.
>
> Let me call you a dickhead. Wouldn't solve a single problem with hurling
> abuses at each other. Those who tried that with me have failed so far. You
> want to try, dickhead?? I am all game.
>
It's something more than an abuse..it's a statement of fact
that you have lied and I have provided proof of it.
> Prove that I said "he wrote only in
> > English"
>
> Your mail implied that. In fact that was one of your major complaints.
> You are back tracking now.
>
Quote me and prove that I "said" "he wrote only in English".
> > > "Finding oneself comfortable in English language/attire"
> > > > bolle Bangla-Ta baad porey naki ?
>
> > > I guess thats what my point was!! That he wrote equally well in both
> > > languages.
>
> > If you understood it, then what did you find wrong in my statement ?
> > Haat nishpish korey naki obantor kotha lekhar jonyo ?
>
> I think you have backtracked from your original position and are trying
> to cover up by acting smart. I'll let you go on this as you have basically
> reverted to my point.
>
You falsely accused me based on a faulty reading of my post. Apnakey
bhodrolok jaanley aykTa khoma chaitum.
> > > > True. But then again his writing has a fair share of garbage disguised
> > > > as logic, IMO. Add to this his narrowness in certain aspects (as with
> > > > the "dress-code" for Indian women, I mentioned above).
>
> > > Thats his opinion. I don't see whats so narrow about it. If I don't like
> > > Bengali women wearing bikini thats my opinion. You can claim it to be a
> > > conservative viewpoint but not narrowness.
>
> > There is definitely something narrow in it.
>
> Conservative yes, narrow no.
>
> If you understand the
> > meaning of the term "hypocrisy" (which NC has displayed amply here
> > by setting two different standards for himself and Bengali women)
> > you will understant what's very narrow in it. But I guess you will
> > overlook it, just like Mr. Kanchan Gupta did.
>
> We have no arguements about NCs anglophilia.
Bhut dyakha shobhab mairi! Who's talking about NC's anglophilia ??? Read
again...I am talking about hypocrisy.
Since you are getting more
> and more off the original point, let me remind you that my original post
> had showed that you had three mistakes which I corrected. If you have
> forgotten go back and check out.
>
Three "mistakes" ??? Care to list them ? I have been asking for
them since my first reply to you!
> I have no great sympathy for NC but I think he is one of the best Bengali
> writer's at present (you may disagree with the content of what he writes)
> and that he is an authority on various aspects of Bengali culture as he is
> on English culture.
>
Irrelevant blabbering.
> > > What's more
> > > > pathetic is that he tries to analyse today's Bengali mindset from his
> > > > own experiences. And when was the last time he was in Calcutta/WB/
> > > > India ?
>
> > > A valid arguement. However, I don't think the present mindset of the
> > > Bengali has changed much from his time. Again thats my opinion.
>
> > kuo-te baash koren naki ?
>
> Bujhlam Na er songe kuote bash korar somporko ki!!! Apni okarone chalaki
> marar chesta korchen. You are trying very hard to sound sarcastic. Gotta
> do better.
>
Apnaar jonye oi jotheshTo. Or beshi asha korben na mairi.
> > > > > 3) NC once said that he was perhaps the only Bengali in England who dared
> > > > > to go out in public wearing dhoti. So I presume he is comfortable in both
> > > > > Western and Eastern dresses.
>
> > > > So ?
>
> > > A self-contradictory question!!!
> > > Anyway, so, it means that he is not uncomfortable in dhoti just becoz he
> > > may be comfortable in a suit.
>
> > And where did I contradict that ?
>
> Again you have moved from your original point. I don't think this
> discussion is going anywhere since your stand is continously shifting.
> You are going around in circles like the dog trying to grab his tail.
>
Don't evade the question. You said I have made three "mistakes".
Point them out clearly (quoting me).
> > > > > My views were similar to Arnab Gupta's before I read NC Chaudhuri. It is
> > > > > obvious from Arnab's sketchy criticism of NC that he has done very little
> > > > > reading of NC.
>
> > > > I have only criticised NC's confused views about the relation of
> > > > a person's dress with his/her identity. Nothing more. Read
> > > > properly before you jump in with your "obvious guesses".
>
> > > 'Confused' is the last word I'll use about NC. 'Opinionated' - yes. Again
> > > it shows you have
> > > very little idea about his works.
>
> > Do you have reading disability ?
>
> Not really. Just have difficulty in understanding dimwit morons.
>
> I have written "confused views about
> > the relation of a person's dress with his/her identity". Where did
> > I comment about him in general ?
>
> So the person is not confused but his views are!!!Interesting!! Are we
> going into self and non-self!!??
>
???
> > > > EkTu pore bolun noito shobTai je shei Rabindranath-er shoponocharini-r
> > > > moddhe poromeshwor-er bhut dyakhar moto hoye jaabe Supratikbabu! :-)
>
> > > Don't worry. I read very carefully. However, make sure you write
> > > carefully. It is unlikely you will get away with making garbage statements
> > > on scb.
>
> > I'm not making up things. Sayan asked the meaning of the second stanza
> > of je chhilo amar shoponocharini". You did have an absurd explanation
> > for that. People pointed it out to you that you probably haven't read
> > the original Tagore composition otherwise you wouldn't have said
> > something so stupid. Check out dejanews, if you wish.
>
> I don't know what this has got to do with the present discussion unless
> you are bringing it to score a point. I am also surprised that you guys
> are so happy with such a minor point - wrong explanation of a stanza. It
> proves that you are in desperate need of points to put me down. So you
> haven't read much of certain things and I haven't read much of certain
> things. Whazza big deal?
>
Bishesh kichhu na. Apnakey mone koriye dilam je na porey obantor bokaTa
apnaar shobhab.
Nirad Chowdhury porechhen na gul marchhen ?
> As we have finally agreed on most of the points I raised
Agreeing to what ? You accused me of making "mistakes". Point
them out.
that he cannot be
> painted with a one-sided picture of an anglophile wearing a bowling hat
> and utterly critical of everything Indian/Bengali, etc (which is also a
> fact to a great extent) but that there are other aspects of him too which
> needs to be appreciated - there is no point in continuing this discussion
> (I am short on time, anyway).
>
O ami jantaam. :-)
> As for the books - on second thoughts I will skip that part. I don't think
> you are looking for books but another brownie point.
>
> Supratik
;-)
As I said...I will have to wait for a lifetime to get that list of
books. Pathetic attempt at facesaving Mr. Das. Tsk tsk tsk...
Arnab.
Supratik Das
On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > Abar prothom theke shuru korte hobe naki? I suggest you go through the
> > thread and find out yourself. I have better things to do than spoon feed
> > immature adults.
> Kete porben na. The accusation was yours. State clearly (quoting me)
> where I was wrong.
As I said - go to the first post. If you still don't understand I can't
help it. And if you know me I am the last person to 'kete pora' from a
conversation with a dickhead like you.
> It's something more than an abuse..it's a statement of fact
> that you have lied and I have provided proof of it.
So you call differing interpretations of a statement lying. Is that what
they taught you at home? It seems to me that it is just that - different
interpretations.
Listen dickhead, the discussion was about NC. My first post was about your
interpretation of NC which I disagreed with. It seems you are more
interested in me than in NC now. To make an objective criticism of NC one
needs to be distanced. But most Bengalies start the discussion with
'he was a hypocrite....' and end it there. I don't think it is going to
be any different - judging from most of the posts - Arindam, Arnab, etc
and I am not interested in it coz then I'll have to give you a good pull
on your ears (deservedly) and at present I am just not interested. Got the
message. If you think you are getting the impression that I am 'kete
porche' or 'trying face saving' then thats your problem. I am capable
enough to parade you naked in front of your fourteen generations but I am
just not interested in that right now.
This is my last post in response to this.
Supratik
Rajiv Shukla
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> I am capable
> enough to parade you naked in front of your fourteen generations but I am
> just not interested in that right now.
How?
--Rajiv
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > Abar prothom theke shuru korte hobe naki? I suggest you go through the
> > > thread and find out yourself. I have better things to do than spoon feed
> > > immature adults.
>
> > Kete porben na. The accusation was yours. State clearly (quoting me)
> > where I was wrong.
>
> help it. And if you know me I am the last person to 'kete pora' from a
> conversation with a dickhead like you.
>
Proti post-ei kete porar dhandha korchhen abar halum-hulum
daak-o chharchhen!
> > It's something more than an abuse..it's a statement of fact
> > that you have lied and I have provided proof of it.
>
> So you call differing interpretations of a statement lying. Is that what
> they taught you at home? It seems to me that it is just that - different
> interpretations.
>
Ah! Now you are coming to the point. Do you realise that you accused
me of making "mistakes" based on your nonsensensical "interpretation" of
what I wrote ? You admitted earlier that "being comfortable in
English language/attire" does not necessarily exclude the act of
being comfortable in their Bengali counterparts.
And based on this "interpretation" of yours you accused me of
"saying" (note: you said "saying" not "implying") that NC wrote
only in English. I think I'm justified in calling you a liar.
What do you think ?
> Listen dickhead, the discussion was about NC. My first post was about your
> interpretation of NC which I disagreed with. It seems you are more
> interested in me than in NC now. To make an objective criticism of NC one
> needs to be distanced. But most Bengalies start the discussion with
> 'he was a hypocrite....' and end it there. I don't think it is going to
> be any different - judging from most of the posts - Arindam, Arnab, etc
> and I am not interested in it coz then I'll have to give you a good pull
> on your ears (deservedly) and at present I am just not interested. Got the
> message. If you think you are getting the impression that I am 'kete
> porche' or 'trying face saving' then thats your problem. I am capable
> enough to parade you naked in front of your fourteen generations but I am
> just not interested in that right now.
>
> This is my last post in response to this.
>
> Supratik
More irrelevant blabbering. Get to the point, Mr. Das (if you have
any). BTW, I'm waiting for your list of books. I'm really interested
in knowing about the "other" books (apart from the one I mentioned)
NC has written on Hinduism.
Arnab.
p.s: Ketey porben na.
Sambit Basu
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971219195308.28299C-100000@post>...
> This is my last post in response to this.
Supu, du-payer maajhe lyaj-te bhalo kore gNujechhen to?
Sambit
Arindam
Supratik writes:
>This is my last post in response to this.
Supratik ei khelata khelte khub bhalobashe. Particularly newsgroup discussion-e
cornered hoye porle. Tai na, Supratik?
:)
Arindam
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:07:26 -0500, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu>
wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>> Kete porben na. The accusation was yours. State clearly (quoting me)
>> where I was wrong.
>
>help it. And if you know me I am the last person to 'kete pora' from a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>conversation with a dickhead like you.
> I am capable enough to parade you naked in front of your fourteen generations but I am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>just not interested in that right now.
>
>This is my last post in response to this.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Supratik Thakur shesh porjonto ketey porlo Arnab-er jwalai? Chi chi
chi, Arnab, eto boro ekti manush jini kina apnar 14 generations key
dhorai niyey ashtey paren, takey kothai khushi hoyey bokshish deben ta
na "liar" boley gali deoa - oshojhyo. Nahoi apnar "kan tanbey"
boleychilo ta orokom gyani guni manushra bolei thaken. Tachara jar
shokti kina bhogoban-er shomogotrio (naki bolbo janata janardan),
t(n)ar lomba hath east coast thekey ohio-tey pouchotey parbey eta
obishhash kora uchit noi. Ashakori shamner kota din kan tan bhalo
korey dhekey rastai cholafera korben (baritey janla to eishomoi
bondhoi thakey, tai otota shotorkotar proyojon nei).
Supratik Thakur babu apni nishchoi ei khomota onek gobeshona korey
peyechen, ta kothai chaplen: " the journal of irreproducible
results"-ey? Reference ta pathiyey deben porey dekhar khub shokh.Ar
jodi patent niyey thaken tobey licencing (franchising ja bolun)
ki-korey neoa jai janaben amra chanda tulbo.
Bolobhai shobai dui hath tuley:
"supratik dhomkai,
to choddopurush chomkai "
regards, siddhartha
Anindya Ghoshal
Is this posting had been mis-posted to soc.culture.bengali? I don't
know whether SCB readers want to read about Mr. Das's sexual festishes
about what he regards Mr. Gupta's head as or his sexual fantasies about
how he can parade him naked in front of his fourteen generations et al..blah,
blah...!!Please post such articles to some alt.sonnyboy.sexual.festish
groups!!
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > Abar prothom theke shuru korte hobe naki? I suggest you go through the
> > > thread and find out yourself. I have better things to do than spoon feed
> > > immature adults.
>
> > Kete porben na. The accusation was yours. State clearly (quoting me)
> > where I was wrong.
>
> As I said - go to the first post. If you still don't understand I can't
> help it. And if you know me I am the last person to 'kete pora' from a
> conversation with a dickhead like you.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > It's something more than an abuse..it's a statement of fact
> > that you have lied and I have provided proof of it.
>
> So you call differing interpretations of a statement lying. Is that what
> they taught you at home? It seems to me that it is just that - different
> interpretations.
>
> Listen dickhead, the discussion was about NC. My first post was about your
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> interpretation of NC which I disagreed with. It seems you are more
> interested in me than in NC now. To make an objective criticism of NC one
> needs to be distanced. But most Bengalies start the discussion with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Distanced?????????
> 'he was a hypocrite....' and end it there. I don't think it is going to
> be any different - judging from most of the posts - Arindam, Arnab, etc
> and I am not interested in it coz then I'll have to give you a good pull
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> on your ears (deservedly) and at present I am just not interested. Got the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's called "boxing the ears" Hon'ble Mr. Das!!
> message. If you think you are getting the impression that I am 'kete
> porche' or 'trying face saving' then thats your problem. I am capable
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> enough to parade you naked in front of your fourteen generations but I am
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> just not interested in that right now.
>
> This is my last post in response to this.
Thanks!! Please make it so.
Supratik Das
To Rajiv, Arnab, Arindam and Siddhartha,
Relax. I am too busy write now to engage in such exhanges. I'll please you
guys when I have more free time.
As such when the hound is away the mongrels may have their day under the
sun. Happy Supratik-flaming till then.
Supratik
Supratik Das
On 20 Dec 1997, Sambit Basu wrote:
> Supu,
Very endearing indeed. My friends call me by that name. Pleases me to see
that the self-employed enemies like it too.
Happy Holidays.
Supratik Das
On 20 Dec 1997, Arindam wrote:
> Supratik ei khelata khelte khub bhalobashe. Particularly newsgroup discussion-e
> cornered hoye porle. Tai na, Supratik?
Onekta guerilla warfare-er moto!! What to do - with so many ramchagols
around? But this time I am off to my vacation.
I hope your trip to Calcutta went of well!!
Happy Holidays.
Supratik
Supratik Das
On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> "supratik dhomkai,
> to choddopurush chomkai "
Byata Sidhu
Tui to dekhi amare amar kore jabi!!
Sambit Basu
> > Supu,
>
> Very endearing indeed. My friends call me by that name. Pleases me to see
> that the self-employed enemies like it too.
Not at all. PaDa-r "Kalomohon" kukur-ke ki aar shobai bhalobeshe
"Kalua" bole!
Sambit
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> To Rajiv, Arnab, Arindam and Siddhartha,
>
> Relax. I am too busy write now to engage in such exhanges. I'll please you
> guys when I have more free time.
>
ei to besh kNui kNui korchhen. Porer baar Niradbabur Hinduism-er upor
baki boigulor listi antey bhulben na.
> As such when the hound is away the mongrels may have their day under the
> sun. Happy Supratik-flaming till then.
>
> Supratik
Manoshik chikitsha koran..shubidha hotey paare. Jokhon tokhon net-e
dhukey nijeke oshikshito o gaDol proman korar tagida-Ta hoito tatey
kom hobey.
Good luck!
Arnab.
Supratik Das
> > > Supu,
Tahole barite apnake oi namei dake.
Apnar chulkonita thik kothai bujhte parlam na?
Mane, amar naam dekhlei ki chulkuni bare naki??
Hothat sobai mile jerokhom jhanpiye porlen.
Supratik Das
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > Relax. I am too busy write now to engage in such exhanges. I'll please you
> > guys when I have more free time.
> ei to besh kNui kNui korchhen.
ekbar bollen halum halum korchi abar bolen knui knui korchi. Je kono ektai
stick korun.
Aar apni kon shala mattobor je apnar samne knui knui korbo.
Jaate bangal, amra knui knui korina.
You are looking for a fight - you have it.
Porer baar Niradbabur Hinduism-er upor
> baki boigulor listi antey bhulben na.
Apnake kono list debar proyojon bodh korina. Ami NC porechi kina seta
ami bhalo jani - apnake proman debar proyojon neyi.
Tobey apnar songe NC niye debate korbona keno apni shuru korben
"NC was a hypocrite....." and I am not interested in discussing what a few
million Bengalies have already decided. If you have anything new to say -
say it.
> > As such when the hound is away the mongrels may have their day under the
> > sun. Happy Supratik-flaming till then.
> Manoshik chikitsha koran..shubidha hotey paare. Jokhon tokhon net-e
> dhukey nijeke oshikshito o gaDol proman korar tagida-Ta hoito tatey
> kom hobey.
I had joined the discussion with my first post which tried to make a few
points but it seems certain assholes on this ngp are more interested in
picking a fight with me than debating a point of view. Hence, I declined
to join in any further. However, with Rajiv and Sambit joining in I have
to join the fight. I am sure Rajiv and Sambit are looking for a way to get
back at me for the dressing down they usually get at my hands. Those
nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
kuri joney mile jhanpiye pore hombi tombi mere amake khub ekta bhoi
payoate parben na.
Apnar moton Ramchagoler songey beshidin discuss korle gadol hoba chara
upai neyi.
Apnar notun kichu bolar thakle bolun.
Amar pechone lagar chalaki korben na - ote subidhey hobe na.
Rajiv Shukla
Supratik Das wrote
>
> I had joined the discussion with my first post which tried to make a few
> points but it seems certain assholes on this ngp are more interested in
> picking a fight with me than debating a point of view. Hence, I declined
> to join in any further. However, with Rajiv and Sambit joining in I have
> to join the fight. I am sure Rajiv and Sambit are looking for a way to get
> back at me for the dressing down they usually get at my hands. Those
> nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
You must have been bullied a lot in your life. I pity you.
Have a nice holiday. Don't want to spoil your winter vacation.
Get the hell out of North East for a couple of weeks, if you can.
Your brain is freezing, ability to reason is bordering on zero.
And lastly, if it's covered by your health insurance, seek psychiatric
help. You need it.
Good luck,
--Rajiv
--
//My personal views only
//Rajiv Shukla
//rsh...@gte.com
Srabani Banerjee
Supratik Das wrote:
> kuri joney mile jhanpiye pore hombi tombi mere amake khub ekta bhoi
> payoate parben na.
>
saat jarman jogai ekaa, tobuo jogai loRe
bravo Supratik-babu!
Srabani
Arnab Gupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
> > > Relax. I am too busy write now to engage in such exhanges. I'll please you
> > > guys when I have more free time.
>
> > ei to besh kNui kNui korchhen.
>
> ekbar bollen halum halum korchi abar bolen knui knui korchi. Je kono ektai
> stick korun.
>
apnakey jyamon nachabo apni tyamoni nachben. Bagh bolle jodi beshi
nachen taholey nahoi porerbaar sheTai hobey.
> Aar apni kon shala mattobor je apnar samne knui knui korbo.
> Jaate bangal, amra knui knui korina.
>
Nijer ujbukponar dohai ditey shesh porjonto jaatey pouchhe gelen ?
ETar uporeo Niradbabu kichhu likhechhen naki ?
> Porer baar Niradbabur Hinduism-er upor
> > baki boigulor listi antey bhulben na.
>
> Apnake kono list debar proyojon bodh korina. Ami NC porechi kina seta
> ami bhalo jani - apnake proman debar proyojon neyi.
>
Ta nei jani. Tobey newsgroup-er onyanyora ki dosh korlo ?
Sayan jantey cheyechhilo...takey janan.
BTW, apni abar kotha ayrachchhen. Apni NiradC porechhen kina
sheTa ami jantey chaina. Ami Hinduism-er upor Niradbabur onyo
boi/boigulor naam jantey chaichhilam. Aapni boro golai janaben
bolechhilen kina.
> Tobey apnar songe NC niye debate korbona keno apni shuru korben
>
> "NC was a hypocrite....." and I am not interested in discussing what a few
> million Bengalies have already decided. If you have anything new to say -
> say it.
>
Debate ? Apnaar shonge ? Nijer megalomaniar chikitshaTa shuru
koran.
> > > As such when the hound is away the mongrels may have their day under the
> > > sun. Happy Supratik-flaming till then.
>
> > Manoshik chikitsha koran..shubidha hotey paare. Jokhon tokhon net-e
> > dhukey nijeke oshikshito o gaDol proman korar tagida-Ta hoito tatey
> > kom hobey.
>
> I had joined the discussion with my first post which tried to make a few
> points but it seems certain assholes on this ngp are more interested in
> picking a fight with me than debating a point of view.
And I never wanted your opinion on NiradC (Apart from the name
of that "other" book on Hinduism). You accused me of saying
something "wrong" and then lied on this newsgroup. I simply
wanted an explanation for that.
Hence, I declined
> to join in any further. However, with Rajiv and Sambit joining in I have
> to join the fight. I am sure Rajiv and Sambit are looking for a way to get
> back at me for the dressing down they usually get at my hands.
Megalomaniar ChikitshaTa koriyei phelun...noiley boddo deri hoye jaabe.
Those
> nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
>
> kuri joney mile jhanpiye pore hombi tombi mere amake khub ekta bhoi
> payoate parben na.
>
Peley khub kharap byapar hobey. Erokom bini poishar khorak maTi!
> Amar pechone lagar chalaki korben na - ote subidhey hobe na.
Bah re! Ei to besh hindi chhobir moto dialogue chharchhen. Chaliye
jaan.
Arnab.
p.s: Shatdin thhakbo na...asha kori phire eshey abar apnaar tamasha
upobhog korar shoubhagyo theke bonchito hobo na.
Sambit Basu
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
> However, with Rajiv and Sambit joining in I have
> to join the fight. I am sure Rajiv and Sambit are looking for a way to
get
> back at me for the dressing down they usually get at my hands. Those
> nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
Chokhe jol eshe gyalo, Supu, mon bhenge gyalo.
Nijer phNopani-te rattir-e ghum bhenge jachchhe na to?
Sambit
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:48:47 -0500, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu>
wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
>
>> ei to besh kNui kNui korchhen.
>ekbar bollen halum halum korchi abar bolen knui knui korchi. Je kono ektai
>stick korun.
Achha, apnara shobai ki shuru koreychen? Gurujon (ebong eto boro
khomotadhari) key erokom chotkanor kono maney hoi? Tao boltey hoi Supu
Thakur apni ei itor pranider shongey khela korey hath gondho korchen
keno. Apnakey baki duniyar lok eto sroddha korey tateo trishna
meteyni?
Ar Arnab key "ektai stick" kortey bolchen, ta apni jey bollen ar ei
thread-ey post korben na tar ki holo? Ami to apnar jonyo shubidha
korey notun thread khuley boshey achi okhaney choley ashun.
>Those nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ar ekta onurodh, apnar "skillfull" torko gulo banglatei beshi shobha
pai. Ingrejitey "pulling your ear", "nincompoof" bolley amar moto eto
boro chelao ektu khunno hoi. Bangal hoyey eto bhalo bhalo gali thaktey
abar ingreji bhara korar ki achey bolun?
regards, siddhartha
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:14:45 -0500, Srabani Banerjee
<BANE...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>Supratik Das wrote:
>
>> kuri joney mile jhanpiye pore hombi tombi mere amake khub ekta bhoi
>> payoate parben na.
>>
>
>saat jarman jogai ekaa, tobuo jogai loRe
>
>bravo Supratik-babu!
Apni bhuley jachhen jey Supu thakur-er oloukik khomota achey, amra
nehat manush, thuri nincompoof;))
regards, siddhartha
Arindam
Siddhartha writes:
>>saat jarman jogai ekaa, tobuo jogai loRe
>>
>>bravo Supratik-babu!
>
>Apni bhuley jachhen jey Supu thakur-er oloukik khomota achey, amra
>nehat manush, thuri nincompoof;))
>regards, siddhartha
Hmmph..Siddharthababu bule jaben na, Supu ki bolechhe juddha korar byapare:
<<Onekta guerilla warfare-er moto!! What to do - with so many ramchagols
around? But this time I am off to my vacation.>>
;)
Arindam
Supratik Das
On 23 Dec 1997, Sambit Basu wrote:
> Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>
> > However, with Rajiv and Sambit joining in I have
> > to join the fight. I am sure Rajiv and Sambit are looking for a way to
> get
> > back at me for the dressing down they usually get at my hands. Those
> > nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
> Chokhe jol eshe gyalo, Supu, mon bhenge gyalo.
>
> Nijer phNopani-te rattir-e ghum bhenge jachchhe na to?
Sambu
Bichana bhejaonito sonamoni?
Supratik Das
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Rajiv Shukla wrote:
> You must have been bullied a lot in your life. I pity you.
A lot. Specially by the likes of Rajiv Shukla. Heheheh......
> Have a nice holiday. Don't want to spoil your winter vacation.
As if you can?
> Get the hell out of North East for a couple of weeks, if you can.
> Your brain is freezing, ability to reason is bordering on zero.
> And lastly, if it's covered by your health insurance, seek psychiatric
> help. You need it.
Thanks for the help. Do you recommend the same psychiatrist you go to?
Supratik Das
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Srabani Banerjee wrote:
> Supratik Das wrote:
> > kuri joney mile jhanpiye pore hombi tombi mere amake khub ekta bhoi
> > payoate parben na.
> saat jarman jogai ekaa, tobuo jogai loRe
> bravo Supratik-babu!
Srabanidevi
Ekhon James Bond er sob movies dekchi.
Nijeke Jogai Bond bhabchi aar mone mone scb -er pantha guloke kelacchi.
Eire Rajiv abar or Psychiatrist-er kache pathabe.
Supratik Das
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Arnab Gupta wrote:
> > > > Relax. I am too busy write now to engage in such exhanges. I'll please you
> > > > guys when I have more free time.
> > > ei to besh kNui kNui korchhen.
> > ekbar bollen halum halum korchi abar bolen knui knui korchi. Je kono ektai
> > stick korun.
> apnakey jyamon nachabo apni tyamoni nachben. Bagh bolle jodi beshi
> nachen taholey nahoi porerbaar sheTai hobey.
Apniki circus-e kaaj korten. Amader local circus theke ekta jambooban
khoya gechey - apni ki sei jambuban? Jambubanra ki kola chariye khai?
Apniki kola chariye khan?
> > Aar apni kon shala mattobor je apnar samne knui knui korbo.
> > Jaate bangal, amra knui knui korina.
> Nijer ujbukponar dohai ditey shesh porjonto jaatey pouchhe gelen ?
aare dur moshai Hindi filim dekhenna. Thakur-ra sobsomoy jaat tule kotha
boley. Apni mairi boka villain.
> ETar uporeo Niradbabu kichhu likhechhen naki ?
Apni bolun na!!
> > Porer baar Niradbabur Hinduism-er upor
> > > baki boigulor listi antey bhulben na.
> > Apnake kono list debar proyojon bodh korina. Ami NC porechi kina seta
> > ami bhalo jani - apnake proman debar proyojon neyi.
> Ta nei jani. Tobey newsgroup-er onyanyora ki dosh korlo ?
Taro proyojon neyi. Debona - ki korben?
> Sayan jantey cheyechhilo...takey janan.
Dur, Sayaner songey already Medha Patkar niye jhogra hoye gechey. O abar
dekhun lal jhanda niye kon gachey chepe boshey achey. Oke niye abar keno
tana tani (Sayan baba ektu yarki marlam - tumi abar fire hoye jeyo na).
> BTW, apni abar kotha ayrachchhen. Apni NiradC porechhen kina
> sheTa ami jantey chaina. Ami Hinduism-er upor Niradbabur onyo
> boi/boigulor naam jantey chaichhilam. Aapni boro golai janaben
> bolechhilen kina.
> > Tobey apnar songe NC niye debate korbona keno apni shuru korben
> >
> > "NC was a hypocrite....." and I am not interested in discussing what a few
> > million Bengalies have already decided. If you have anything new to say -
> > say it.
> Debate ? Apnaar shonge ? Nijer megalomaniar chikitshaTa shuru
> koran.
Rajiv-er psychiatrist-er kachey jacchi. Jambubander ki psychiatric
chikitsa korano jai?
> > > > As such when the hound is away the mongrels may have their day under the
> > > > sun. Happy Supratik-flaming till then.
> > > Manoshik chikitsha koran..shubidha hotey paare. Jokhon tokhon net-e
> > > dhukey nijeke oshikshito o gaDol proman korar tagida-Ta hoito tatey
> > > kom hobey.
> >
> > I had joined the discussion with my first post which tried to make a few
> > points but it seems certain assholes on this ngp are more interested in
> > picking a fight with me than debating a point of view.
> And I never wanted your opinion on NiradC (Apart from the name
> of that "other" book on Hinduism). You accused me of saying
> something "wrong" and then lied on this newsgroup. I simply
> wanted an explanation for that.
All Bengalies find three things when they discuss NC
- hypocrisy
- anglophilia
- narrowmindedness
I find more than that in his works but you guys have too much of a
constricted view on NC - so you don't see anything beyond that. You were
basically repeating what others have said before. There were some points
you made which were wrong either by implication or by statement which I
countered. When you couldn't digest the criticism you started indulging in
other tactics. Then I said I was not interested and you kept on saying
'kete porchey'. So I came back and gave you guys some satisfaction of
a fight. Thats the summary in brief. Now go home and watch TV.
> p.s: Shatdin thhakbo na...asha kori phire eshey abar apnaar tamasha
> upobhog korar shoubhagyo theke bonchito hobo na.
Seki abar circus-e jacchen naki? Paliye jacchen nato? Dekhben apnar jonno
unmukh hoye boshey thakbo. Eirokom tamasha korar lok onek din payi ni.
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
Ei byata Sidhua. Tui majkhan theke sujog peye karnik marchis keno re?
Toke ki Alimuddin theke bhalo kono kaaj deyeni?
> >ekbar bollen halum halum korchi abar bolen knui knui korchi. Je kono ektai
> >stick korun.
> Achha, apnara shobai ki shuru koreychen? Gurujon (ebong eto boro
> khomotadhari) key erokom chotkanor kono maney hoi? Tao boltey hoi Supu
> Thakur apni ei itor pranider shongey khela korey hath gondho korchen
> keno. Apnakey baki duniyar lok eto sroddha korey tateo trishna
> meteyni?
Sobi amar lila Sidhua. Tora amar tamashar putul. Toder niye majhey majhey
football kheli.
> Ar Arnab key "ektai stick" kortey bolchen, ta apni jey bollen ar ei
> thread-ey post korben na tar ki holo? Ami to apnar jonyo shubidha
> korey notun thread khuley boshey achi okhaney choley ashun.
Tui amar choddo purush uddhar korechis onnyo thread khule.
Oi Arnab to lalkar dichhilo. Byata Boka villain. Amitabh-ke lalkar dile
dekhis na ki hoy - dishum dishum - villain flat.
> >Those nincompoofs do not even have the skills to fight it alone.
> Ar ekta onurodh, apnar "skillfull" torko gulo banglatei beshi shobha
> pai. Ingrejitey "pulling your ear", "nincompoof" bolley amar moto eto
> boro chelao ektu khunno hoi. Bangal hoyey eto bhalo bhalo gali thaktey
> abar ingreji bhara korar ki achey bolun?
Toar abar kothakar jambuban bojha day - tai sob bhasatei gaali di - asha
kono ekta togo khopri te dhukum.
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> Apni bhuley jachhen jey Supu thakur-er oloukik khomota achey, amra
> nehat manush, thuri nincompoof;))
Tothastu. Tor biya dimu Phoolan Devir songey - tor sob jhal jhaira dibey.
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 10:49:05 -0500, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu>
wrote:
>Ei byata Sidhua. Tui majkhan theke sujog peye karnik marchis keno re?
>Toke ki Alimuddin theke bhalo kono kaaj deyeni?
>
Chi Chi Chi, ei netey practically boltey geley ami apnar ekmatro
chela, tar choritro shombondheo shondeho. Alimuddin ki kono
musalman-er nam naki, chi chi chi, oi nam kokhono kortey achey. Hyan
bhalo dekhey ekta nam bolun, jemon Ram Jonmobhumi.....aaah, shara
shorirey romancho jegey othey............
pronam janben, siddhartha
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> >Ei byata Sidhua. Tui majkhan theke sujog peye karnik marchis keno re?
> >Toke ki Alimuddin theke bhalo kono kaaj deyeni?
> Chi Chi Chi, ei netey practically boltey geley ami apnar ekmatro
> chela, tar choritro shombondheo shondeho. Alimuddin ki kono
> musalman-er nam naki, chi chi chi, oi nam kokhono kortey achey. Hyan
> bhalo dekhey ekta nam bolun, jemon Ram Jonmobhumi.....aaah, shara
> shorirey romancho jegey othey............
Na re tui amar Ram bhakta hanuman.
Ram Jonmobhumi keno re beta tui to Babarer nati chili. Tor songey Akbar
keli korto, mone nei??
Arindam
One man, one thread, one change:
A Tribute to Nirad -----> A Tribute to Narad
Supratik Das, the one and only! :)
Go Supratik! :)
Arindam
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On 23 Dec 1997 11:59:07 GMT, ari...@aol.com (Arindam) wrote:
>Hmmph..Siddharthababu bule jaben na, Supu ki bolechhe juddha korar byapare:
>
><<Onekta guerilla warfare-er moto!! What to do - with so many ramchagols
>around? But this time I am off to my vacation.>>
Bujhlam na, Supu Thakur ki chagol boli chaichen naki? Ta tar jonyo
guerilla warfare korar ki dorkar, Nachiketa-key bolbo kh(n)ara niyey
ashtey, ekta Pran-obonto chagol pelei shob Lal korey debey.
Bolo bhai dui hath tuley
"Jodi Supu dhomkai
tor choddo purush chomkai"
siddhartha
Sambit Basu
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971223101723.29007A-100000@post>...
> > Chokhe jol eshe gyalo, Supu, mon bhenge gyalo.
> >
> > Nijer phNopani-te rattir-e ghum bhenge jachchhe na to?
>
>
> Sambu
>
> Bichana bhejaonito sonamoni?
Apnar oprashongik osleelota-r bod-obhyash-ti ki genetic, naki
ota apnar genius?
Sambit
Partha Chatterjee
Supratik,
Apnar rashobodh shotyi baRo kam - apnakey je 'Pagla Jagai' bala holo
eta bujhlen ki? Bujhley hathat James Bond eney phellen kaano? Sukumar
Ray'er 'LaRai Khyapa' maney nei bodh hochhey. Kobita'ta apnar khsetrey
otyonto upojukto - bhuley geley ba na poRa thakley bolben, post korey
debo - amar kachhey Signet'er original 'Abol Tabol' edition achhey.
Ei proshongey akta cinema'r katha maney poRlo - nam 'BONDITIS', eta
naki akta manoshik obostha, apnar ki tai hoyechhey? Ar holeo puro
na adhaadhi, arthat kolponatey shudhui 'dhishum-dhishum' na adi rosh'o
achhey? Je cinema'ta dekhechhilam tatey dutoi chhilo - maney 'nayok'
cheyechhilo 'Sex' component'ta, violence'ta gharey chepechhilo.
Ami Nirad C. shombondhey boktobyogulo miss korechhi - jhagra'ta shudhu
poRchhilam, kintu apnar ei post'ta dekhey tipponi katar lobh shamlatey
parlam na - rag korben na jaano.
- Shubhechhantey,
Partha
Supratik Das
On 23 Dec 1997, Sambit Basu wrote:
> Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
> <Pine.SOL.3.96.971223101723.29007A-100000@post>...
> > > Chokhe jol eshe gyalo, Supu, mon bhenge gyalo.
> > > Nijer phNopani-te rattir-e ghum bhenge jachchhe na to?
> > Bichana bhejaonito sonamoni?
> Apnar oprashongik osleelota-r bod-obhyash-ti ki genetic, naki
> ota apnar genius?
Chi chi chi Sombu tomar ki nongra mon - ami to bacha bhejano bolte oshru
jole bhejabar kotha bolechilam. Tumi oirokom nongra chinta ki bole korle?
Jao Shiv Shiv bole ganga jal mukhey chetao. Tomar ei rokom pornographic
mentality keno bacha?
Supratik Das
> Go Supratik! :)
Ki Korbo Arindam. Byatara ektu moskara chaichilo - I had to satisfy them.
Ebar prochur nindey korbey? Narad, Narad!!!
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> >Hmmph..Siddharthababu bule jaben na, Supu ki bolechhe juddha korar byapare:
> ><<Onekta guerilla warfare-er moto!! What to do - with so many ramchagols
> >around? But this time I am off to my vacation.>>
> Bujhlam na, Supu Thakur ki chagol boli chaichen naki? Ta tar jonyo
> guerilla warfare korar ki dorkar, Nachiketa-key bolbo kh(n)ara niyey
> ashtey, ekta Pran-obonto chagol pelei shob Lal korey debey.
Bhalo bolechis Sidhu. Tokey diyei shuru kori.
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Partha Chatterjee wrote:
> Apnar rashobodh shotyi baRo kam - apnakey je 'Pagla Jagai' bala holo
> eta bujhlen ki? Bujhley hathat James Bond eney phellen kaano? Sukumar
> Ray'er 'LaRai Khyapa' maney nei bodh hochhey. Kobita'ta apnar khsetrey
> otyonto upojukto - bhuley geley ba na poRa thakley bolben, post korey
> debo - amar kachhey Signet'er original 'Abol Tabol' edition achhey.
Asen asen Partha babu apnader opekhai achi. Ei Mahabharater juddhey Partha
chara to incomplete. Apni ei abol tabol ta bhalo thaorechen. James Bond
are Pagla Jagai (oi tuku dhorte perechi - bojheni to beshi porasuna nai -
bisheshoto apnago logey kichui zani na) miley - Jagai Bond. Welcome to the
show.
> Ei proshongey akta cinema'r katha maney poRlo - nam 'BONDITIS', eta
> naki akta manoshik obostha, apnar ki tai hoyechhey? Ar holeo puro
> na adhaadhi, arthat kolponatey shudhui 'dhishum-dhishum' na adi rosh'o
> achhey? Je cinema'ta dekhechhilam tatey dutoi chhilo - maney 'nayok'
> cheyechhilo 'Sex' component'ta, violence'ta gharey chepechhilo.
Eire apni to mairi aaro complicated theory dilen. Sex and violence!! Ta
Sombu aar Sidhuke dekhey sex-chinta ektu bara bari hoye jaabe aar violence
- chi chi chagoler songey violence - ramo ramo.
> Ami Nirad C. shombondhey boktobyogulo miss korechhi - jhagra'ta shudhu
> poRchhilam, kintu apnar ei post'ta dekhey tipponi katar lobh shamlatey
> parlam na - rag korben na jaano.
Nirad C. ekhun mathai uthechey - ekhon Supratik-ke niye sobai bashto -
byatake thik sobai tight diye uthte parchey na - tobe chestar truti neyi.
Apnio ashun na apnader sob biplobi bondhu bandhobder niye..
Jogai Bond
Siddhartha Duttagupta
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.971223102151.29007C-100000@post>,
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>
>On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Srabani Banerjee wrote:
>> saat jarman jogai ekaa, tobuo jogai loRe
>> bravo Supratik-babu!
>
>Srabanidevi
>Ekhon James Bond er sob movies dekchi.
>Nijeke Jogai Bond bhabchi aar mone mone scb -er pantha guloke kelacchi.
Khali marpit korlei James Bond hoa jai na, lilakhelao chai.
shobi thakurer ichhey;))
regards, siddhartha
Supratik Das
On 24 Dec 1997, Sambit Basu wrote:
> Aar nyakami - sheta-o genetic? Akjon adault-er - ontoto sharirik boyesh-er
> dik diye - ei public dhyamnamo oshojhyo.
Sombu Ki korum bol, dhymnar loygya dhymnamo koroner lagey.
Byata Arnab kintu polyahcey ei sujogey. oi byata nater guru - amarey
chimti maira kaita porlo.
Supratik Das
On 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> Khali marpit korlei James Bond hoa jai na, lilakhelao chai.
> shobi thakurer ichhey;))
Hok kotha koichish. Dudiga duita dagor dogor maiya loia type kortashi. Ami
togo oi James, James Bond - er thiyka kom ki.
Supratik Das
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Supratik Das wrote:
> togo oi James, James Bond - er thiyka kom ki.
Thuri, Bond, James Bond hoibo.
Ki korum maiya gulo boro katakutu dey.
Sambit Basu
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.SOL.3.96.971223195038.1644A-100000@post>...
>
> On 23 Dec 1997, Sambit Basu wrote:
> > Apnar oprashongik osleelota-r bod-obhyash-ti ki genetic, naki
> > ota apnar genius?
>
>
> Chi chi chi Sombu tomar ki nongra mon - ami to bacha bhejano bolte oshru
> jole bhejabar kotha bolechilam. Tumi oirokom nongra chinta ki bole korle?
> Jao Shiv Shiv bole ganga jal mukhey chetao. Tomar ei rokom pornographic
> mentality keno bacha?
Aar nyakami - sheta-o genetic? Akjon adault-er - ontoto sharirik boyesh-er
dik diye - ei public dhyamnamo oshojhyo.
Sambit
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On 23 Dec 1997 22:19:47 GMT, "Sambit Basu" <sam...@agniroth.com>
wrote:
>Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote in article
>> Sambu
>> Bichana bhejaonito sonamoni?
>Apnar oprashongik osleelota-r bod-obhyash-ti ki genetic, naki
>ota apnar genius?
This supposes genius is not through genes;))
sambit babu apnar choddopurush bodh-hoi bangal noi, thik?
taholey ei proshno korten na.
regards, siddhartha
Partha Chatterjee
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Partha Chatterjee wrote:
>
> > Apnar rashobodh shotyi baRo kam - apnakey je 'Pagla Jagai' bala holo
> > eta bujhlen ki? Bujhley hathat James Bond eney phellen kaano? Sukumar
> > Ray'er 'LaRai Khyapa' maney nei bodh hochhey. Kobita'ta apnar khsetrey
> > otyonto upojukto - bhuley geley ba na poRa thakley bolben, post korey
> > debo - amar kachhey Signet'er original 'Abol Tabol' edition achhey.
>
> Asen asen Partha babu apnader opekhai achi. Ei Mahabharater juddhey Partha
> chara to incomplete. Apni ei abol tabol ta bhalo thaorechen. James Bond
> are Pagla Jagai (oi tuku dhorte perechi - bojheni to beshi porasuna nai -
> bisheshoto apnago logey kichui zani na) miley - Jagai Bond. Welcome to the
Shabdo byabohar thik holona, purbo-bangiya (bangal) bhasha'ta jor korey
byabohar karen kaano?
> show.
>
> > Ei proshongey akta cinema'r katha maney poRlo - nam 'BONDITIS', eta
> > naki akta manoshik obostha, apnar ki tai hoyechhey? Ar holeo puro
> > na adhaadhi, arthat kolponatey shudhui 'dhishum-dhishum' na adi rosh'o
> > achhey? Je cinema'ta dekhechhilam tatey dutoi chhilo - maney 'nayok'
> > cheyechhilo 'Sex' component'ta, violence'ta gharey chepechhilo.
>
> Eire apni to mairi aaro complicated theory dilen. Sex and violence!! Ta
> Sombu aar Sidhuke dekhey sex-chinta ektu bara bari hoye jaabe aar violence
> - chi chi chagoler songey violence - ramo ramo.
Siddhartha ar Sambit to amar dharona purushder nam, na apnar ei nameo
sahapathini chhilo (Soumitri'r moto) ?
Hindu dharmey 'Gay' haoa ki politically correct? - ami thik janina, amar
dharona chhilo je Modhyo-prachye otar
procholon beshi, jaamon Islam'er behest'e(etao second-hand knowledge -
kaukey aghat ditey chaina) kochi chheler asha deoa hoi, jodio Judaism ar
Christianity etakey kharap baley.
>
> > Ami Nirad C. shombondhey boktobyogulo miss korechhi - jhagra'ta shudhu
> > poRchhilam, kintu apnar ei post'ta dekhey tipponi katar lobh shamlatey
> > parlam na - rag korben na jaano.
>
> Nirad C. ekhun mathai uthechey - ekhon Supratik-ke niye sobai bashto -
> byatake thik sobai tight diye uthte parchey na - tobe chestar truti neyi.
> Apnio ashun na apnader sob biplobi bondhu bandhobder niye..
>
> Jogai Bond
'LaRai Khyapa'r sheshey kintu Jagai mara poRechhilo - ontoto Jagai tar
diary'te oirokom likhechhilo, to apnakeo taholey har shwikar korey nitey
hoi, tai boli, michhimichhi aato laphan kaano?
- Shubhechhantey,
Partha
Siddhartha Duttagupta
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.971223200057.1644C-100000@post>,
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
>> Bujhlam na, Supu Thakur ki chagol boli chaichen naki? Ta tar jonyo
>> guerilla warfare korar ki dorkar, Nachiketa-key bolbo kh(n)ara niyey
>> ashtey, ekta Pran-obonto chagol pelei shob Lal korey debey.
>
>Bhalo bolechis Sidhu. Tokey diyei shuru kori.
>
Chi chi chi, ami apnar ekmatro chela amakei boli deben. Emonki James Bond-
o ekotha bolto na.
Ta ki kora jabey desher kukur thuri thakur-key ki feley deoa jai;))
jai ram, siddhartha
Supratik Das
On Wed, 24 Dec 1997, Partha Chatterjee wrote:
> > bisheshoto apnago logey kichui zani na) miley - Jagai Bond. Welcome to the
> Shabdo byabohar thik holona, purbo-bangiya (bangal) bhasha'ta jor korey
> byabohar karen kaano?
Ami sudhu bangal kotha byabohar korchi eta apnake ke bollo. Lokhyo korley
dekhben ami motamooti ekta mishra bhasha bybohar korchi. Apnake khusi kora
to amar kaaj noy.
> > Eire apni to mairi aaro complicated theory dilen. Sex and violence!! Ta
> > Sombu aar Sidhuke dekhey sex-chinta ektu bara bari hoye jaabe aar violence
> > - chi chi chagoler songey violence - ramo ramo.
> Siddhartha ar Sambit to amar dharona purushder nam, na apnar ei nameo
> sahapathini chhilo (Soumitri'r moto) ?
Yarkita dhorte parenni. Aar yarki explain kora aro birkotikor.
> Hindu dharmey 'Gay' haoa ki politically correct? - ami thik janina, amar
Er opor bodh kori boyi achey - 'Homosexuality in Hinduism' ba oi namer
kichu. Kamasutrateo jotodur jani homsexual sex describe kora achey.
> dharona chhilo je Modhyo-prachye otar
> procholon beshi, jaamon Islam'er behest'e(etao second-hand knowledge -
> kaukey aghat ditey chaina) kochi chheler asha deoa hoi, jodio Judaism ar
> Christianity etakey kharap baley.
Apnito behestei jaaben. Okaney apnar jonno Stalin (Kochi kina jani na)
boshey achen.
> > Jogai Bond
> 'LaRai Khyapa'r sheshey kintu Jagai mara poRechhilo - ontoto Jagai tar
> diary'te oirokom likhechhilo, to apnakeo taholey har shwikar korey nitey
> hoi, tai boli, michhimichhi aato laphan kaano?
Amake Sombu aar Sidhur songey har jit niye lorayi kortey hobey? Choh!!
Apniyo dekhi roshikota koren!!
Supratik Das
On 24 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
> >Bhalo bolechis Sidhu. Tokey diyei shuru kori.
> Chi chi chi, ami apnar ekmatro chela amakei boli deben. Emonki James Bond-
> o ekotha bolto na.
> Ta ki kora jabey desher kukur thuri thakur-key ki feley deoa jai;))
Dur Chagol!! Tui amar chela tui amake gurudokhina dibina?? Tokei agey
khabo. Ami Thakur?? Oto tor Dadu - Jyoti - ekhon banglar debota.
Siddhartha Duttagupta
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:43:04 -0500, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu>
wrote:
>On 23 Dec 1997, Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
>
>> Khali marpit korlei James Bond hoa jai na, lilakhelao chai.
>> shobi thakurer ichhey;))
>Hok kotha koichish. Dudiga duita dagor dogor maiya loia type kortashi. Ami
>togo oi James, James Bond - er thiyka kom ki.
Chi chi chi, Bharatiya Thakur-der ei durobostha hoyeychey, ey jey ghor
koli. Asha ei jey ei dukkher din dur hotey ar beshi baki nei, amader
hatey singhasan elei James Bond/Jagai Bond/Krishna Bond shob
lilakhelai chalatey parben.
Onyo proshongey apni jey amakey Babar-er nati boleychen, ekta
sattificate jogar kora jai ki apnar thekey. Ajkal mussalman background
dekhaley bhalo poisha paoa jachhey.....ager thekey onek beshi. Apnar
sattificate-ey besh kaj debey emon shona jachhey.
supur-choron-tol-asrita, siddhartha
bhu...@gmail.com
I am looking for the essay by NC - "Why I hate Indians" from the Illustrated Weekly of India - 1969.
Please let me know if you have a link / copy of the same.
Thanks,
Bhushan Kadu (bhus...@pyrogroup.com)
On Wednesday, December 10, 1997 at 1:30:00 PM UTC+5:30, Abhijit Mitra wrote:
> Taken from www.hindunet.org/hvk
> --------------------------------
>
> Picture this Nirad - The Pioneer
>
> Kanchan Gupta ()
> 22 November 1997
>
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> Title: Picture this Nirad
> Author: Kanchan Gupta
> Publication: The Pioneer
> Date: November 22, 1997
>
> This Sunday an Indian unknown to most of his countrymen will
> enter the one hundred and first year of his life far away from Indian
> shores at his semi-detached house on Lathbury Road in Oxford. If
> he was unknown in 1951 when his first book, Autobiography of an
> Unknown Indian, was published to critical acclaim abroad and
> savage criticism at home, there is little reason to believe that
> Nirad C Chaudhuri is well-known today - in India, at least. After all,
> Three Horse men of the New Apocalypse, which he wrote in the
> 99th year of his life and is feast for those who delight in reading
> Chaudhuri's scathing, incisive commentary on our times, found
> rare mention in the native media.
>
> That, in a sense, is the tragedy of this scholar who travelled all the
> way from obscure Kishorganj (now in Bangladesh) to his present
> abode in Oxford - a journey punctuated by books that shall
> survive well beyond the next 100 years. Three classes of Indians
> have bothered to take note of this remarkable journey that spans
> two centuries, beginning in the year of the Diamond Jubilee of
> Queen Victoria. The first comprises people like me who can read
> both Bengali and English, but prefer to speak and write in the latter
> language even while asserting the Bengali identity. People like
> me who are fascinated by Niradbabu's intellect.
>
> The second comprises the "subaltern" variety who delight in
> rubbishing that which they are unable to comprehend. Their
> knowledge of Niradbabu's work is limited to the oft-quoted but
> least understood dedication of his first book: "To the memory of
> the British Empire in India....." In the not so-distant past, they were
> content to quote the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto, not
> having read behind that.
>
> The third comprises those other Indians like Vidya Naipaul
> according to whom "Chaudhuri's Autobiography (of an Unknown
> Indian) may be the one great book to have come out of the
> Indo-English encounter," whose understanding of this land and its
> people is far superior than that of their critics at home and, in some
> ways, share Niradbabu's tragedy.
>
> Everybody who is anybody in the Indian establishment raced to
> greet Arundhati Roy after she won the Booker. The media went
> into a tizzy trying to outdo each other in dishing out hype that was
> nothing more than tripe. One would be curious to know how many
> in the establishment have bothered to send a congratulatory letter
> to Niradbabu, if only for the fact that he is this year's winner of the
> Vidyasagar award and has completed almost a century of
> scholastic pursuit undeterred by the a appalling poverty that
> haunted him for many years and the absence of a steady income
> after being denied an honour able pension when he retired from
> All India Radio.
>
> "Anglo phile", "proud" and "anti-Indian" are some of the epithets
> that have been hurled at Niradbabu from time to time. That is
> primarily because he has never reneged on his thesis that the
> Bengali 'bhadralok' - he is one of the that remain of the original
> breed - could not have been what he is but for exposure to all that
> was good about the Empire, especially European Enlightenment.
> To deny this fact would be to deny the truth. He has preserved an
> identity that combines the best of both traditions and in distinctly
> different - as well as superior - from what we today know as the
> "cosmopolitan identity" that combines the worst of the East and
> the West.
>
> "Anglophile" yes, but not an uncritical admirer of the West. On the
> contrary, Niradbabu has never spared the West, or for the matter
> the Empire, for all that was wrong and has since been going
> wrong with Western perceptions and practices. In a sense, he
> presents a curious picture of contradictions that seek to outweigh
> each other but which he is able to combine in perfect harmony.
> When Nirad babu's name comes up during a discussion among
> his critics, the image is that of a man dressed in an impeccable
> Savile Row suit, bowler hat and bow tie. What is ignored is the
> other image of Niradbabu in dhoti and kurta, pottering about his
> Oxford home and telling you a thing or two about Hindu cultural
> traditions.
>
> Such assertions would make the "subaltern" variety pounce upon
> Niradbabu and accuse him of being a "Hindu communalist". After
> all, he did refuse to criticise the destruction of the Babri structure -
> "I say the Muslims do not have the slightest right to complain
> about the desecration of one mosque. From 1000 AD every
> Hindu temple from Kathiawar to Bihar, from the Himalayas to
> Vindhyas has been sacked and refined..." - and he ago once told
> BJP president L.K. Advani that if he had a daughter, he would
> have ever allowed her to wear salwar-kameez as it was not a
> "Hindu dress" - and has refrained from using the word Indians,
> instead substituting it with "Hindu."
>
> For a full explanation, one needs only to go through the opening
> essay in The Continent of Circe. "The concept of such an
> exclusive society (the dominant human group beyond the Indus)
> was naturally associated with the word 'Hindu', and therefore it did
> not long remain the simple geographical definition which at first it
> was... Indeed, whenever I use it (the word 'Hindu') I feel its cultural
> connotation very strongly, and I wish to evoke a cultural type..."
> Although forced into exile by Indians who delight in being unkind
> to those who prefer to remain unknown rather than conform to
> conventional wisdom, Niradbabu has waged a constant battle to
> keep this "cultural type" from being stamped out by those who
> slavishly pander to all that is depraved about the West even while
> claiming to represent the East.
>
> As for that other charge of unremitting pride that is often labeled by
> fellow Bengalis, Niradbabu himself answered it through an essay
> in Ananda bazar Patrika in 1994. Explaining that any comparisons
> that he makes are not with his standards of achievement but
> between Bengal's past intellectual glory and present intellectual
> poverty, he savages his critics in his inimitable manner, reminding
> them that they never accorded his works their due place in the
> pantheon of Indian writing - either in Bengali or in English. As I said
> in the beginning, Niradbabu's tragedy is that recognition has
> come his way not from home but abroad. That is a pity. As is the
> fact that most of the people among whom he is not an "unknown
> Indian" remember him merely as the author of Autobiography of an Unknown
> Indian
> (Viking has just published a limited number
> edition of this book as a centenary tribute) while his other books
> have fetched little or no notice at bell. For instance, The Continent
> of Circe is easily the best analysis that has Penned of post 1947
> India, placing the present in the larger context of India's past.
> Similarly, most Bengalis are ignorant of the bulk of his Bengali
> works which, starting from Bangali Jeebane Ramoni, have
> systematically analysed the decline and fall of Bengali culture
> and traditions.
>
> If a reason must be attributed to this callous disregard for one of
> the greatest Indian writer of our times, it is our inability to honour
> our achievers while they are alive. Moreover, our callousness
> proves our contempt for intellectual pursuit, riveted as we are by
> the antics of small, hollow men in high places who have come to
> substitute the men who ruled India when it was a part of the British
> Empire Happy birthday, Mr Chaudhuri. People like me will fondly
> remember you on your jonmodin'.
>
> (Kanchan Gupta works at the S.P. Mookerjee Foundation)