'Arts'-er meye ki fyalna? seriously concerned...

[Sharmila K. Mukherjee]

Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond
korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer
byapaare meye jodi kono arts subject niye pora-shona kore thaakey, tobey
biyer bajaare tar dor kome jai, e rokom kono ghotona ki aapnader chokhe
poreche? Aami deshe thaakte du-aakjon-er mukhe e rokom shunechilaam,
je tara science/engg.-er meye biye korte aagrohi. Taader modhye
aakjon-ke kaaron jiggesh koraate she janalo je he wants to have
"meaningful, intelligent and logical" conversations with his wife
and if the girl is from science/engg.stream, the probability of
having such is greater. Tini science-pora meye-i biye korechilen
kintu conversation-e kotota successful hote perechen aamar
oboshyo khoNj kora hoi ni. Tobey aami ota minority opinion bhebe
taamon patta dei ni.
E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o
Arts-er meye biye korte taamon utshaahi non. Kaaron? TNader boktobbyo
je bou-era to baarite boshe thaakbe na, bore hoye jaabe. Taader aakta
kichu kora dorkaar.Aakta kichu bolte aajkaal je jinishta khub cholche
ta holo programming.Chaaridik-e dekhchi je onek-e biye kore desh thekey
bou niye aashche, tara eshe-i jhot-pot du-chaarte language shikhe felche.
Tarpor jodi work-permit peye jai, tobey to kella fotey! Chotokhato chaakri
peye jachche. Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron, again,
the probability of their learning the languages very fast and consequently
getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom
discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara
daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
na? Aapnara ki bolen?
Iti chintito,
Sharmila

[Somdev Sen]

Eta sotti ekta boro samajik problem hoe d(n)aratey paare. Amar mone
hoi oi 'Darwinian theory of Natural Selection'-take amra boddo beshi
seriously nie phelechhi aar nijeder moto ortho kore nie joto gondogol
badhachhi. Kintu jotodin amader samaj-ey ei moddhojugio protha-ta chaalu
thaakbe je essentially chhele-rai meye-der pochhondo korte paarbe, not
the other way round, totodin ei vicious circle theke beronor kono rasta
aachhe ki ? Amar to mone hoina.

Tobe h(n)aa, ei programming ba language shikhe jhot-pot chaakri paoa
byapar-ta(jodio sotti) kintu besh mojar concept.

iti
dukkhito
Somdev.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Supratik Das]

Amar mone hoy jehetu arranged marriage-er modhey ekta 'deal' korar
byapar ache, sehetu economics, apart from looks, je important hobe seta
khub sababhik. Dui eksonge pele to kella fote. Besides economics
ebong geography ekhon Science-er modhey gonno, sehetu arts subject bolte
bishesh kichu pore thake na. Obosyo apni jodi performing arts er kotha
bolen tahole bolte hoy sekhane khub ekta discrimination nei. Amar labmate
recently jake biye koreche sey English MA. Kintu ekhon sunchi programming
ba related kichu niye porbe, mane sei ghure phire economics.

Iti Supratik.

[sayan bhattacharyya]

Sharmila K. Mukherjee <s...@bcm.tmc.edu> wrote:

>Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron, again,
>the probability of their learning the languages very fast and consequently
>getting jobs is greater.

I don't see why learning a programming language should be necessarily any
harder for a humanities student than it is for an arts or humanities student.
After all, I once saw a quote in a programming textbook: "Programming is an
art, not a science" :-)

All that is needed in learning to program is logical thinking. Now this is
is a skill which is needed in _all_ disciplines, not just in the sciences.

In the subfield of computer science that I did my master's thesis in,
namely natural language understanding, there are substantial numbers of
workers who were trained in the humanities, e.g. English or linguistics.
One of my co-workers in the project I worked on, was an American student
with a B.A. in English literature.

In my current field of work within computer science (artificial intelligence)
there are any number of people who were trained as cognitive psychologists
or even as philosophers. They do not have any difficulty in learning to
program that I can see.

-Sayan.

[saugata basu]

s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:

: discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara

: daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
: bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
: joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
: hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
: na? Aapnara ki bolen?

biye je kortei habe ta ke boleche ? na korlei to holo. jana sankhya kambe.
tar fale ar eto meyeder ar "arts" porte habena. sabai science ba engineering
pore computer program korte parbe. ar apnar chintao kambe.

tabe ei byaparta khali meyeder belai ki projojyo -- ami to shunechi je
kolkatai ar dari wala, tholi jholano arts para chelera ar meyeder akarshan
kore na. ekta mba ba ca degree na thakle naki biye-fiye besh muskil.

saugata.

[Rajiv Shukla]

In article <4m5910$j...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:
>Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond
> korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer
>byapaare meye jodi kono arts subject niye pora-shona kore thaakey, tobey
>biyer bajaare tar dor kome jai, e rokom kono ghotona ki aapnader chokhe
>poreche?

Jodi pore thake tahole ki habe?

Rajiv

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

sayan bhattacharyya wrote:

>
> I don't see why learning a programming language should be necessarily any
> harder for a humanities student than it is for an arts or humanities student.

Right, it is not, but how many people wait to think about it? My point
was that this is a prevailing misconception adding fuel to a very
unjustified discrimination. I guess the majority are looking for an
easy, secure way out. Like I said, the vicious circle of probability, :)

Regards,
Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

saugata basu wrote:
>
> biye je kortei habe ta ke boleche ?

Keu bole ni.

na korlei to holo. jana sankhya kambe.

Eta aapni shei shob baba ma-der bojhan jara meyer biyer byabostha korte
parchen na bole heart-er oshukhe bhugchen.

> tar fale ar eto meyeder ar "arts" porte habena. sabai science ba engineering
> pore computer program korte parbe. ar apnar chintao kambe.

She ki? Shobai aamader majority SCB jonotader moto shob shomoi
gurugombhir aalochona kore peter oshukhe bhugbe? Ki je bolen...

>
> tabe ei byaparta khali meyeder belai ki projojyo

Umm..ta oboshyo noi. Tobe e khane aakhon aeita niye-i aalochona kora
jaak, ki bolen?

-- ami to shunechi je
> kolkatai ar dari wala, tholi jholano arts para chelera ar meyeder akarshan
> kore na. ekta mba ba ca degree na thakle naki biye-fiye besh muskil.

>
Hmm.... mondo bolen ni kotha ta. Tobe aakorshon kora aar biye kora ki
ayak holo? Tobe jai hok, tai niye pore aalochona kora jete paare.

Regards,

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Somdev Sen wrote:
>
> Eta sotti ekta boro samajik problem hoe d(n)aratey paare.

Dhonyobaad, aamar lekha sharthok; at least aak jon aei niye du-charte
chinta korchen. So this goes to prove that you always dont have to use
sensationalism to draw attention to your self/self ideas, :)

Kintu jotodin amader samaj-ey ei moddhojugio protha-ta chaalu
> thaakbe je essentially chhele-rai meye-der pochhondo korte paarbe, not
> the other way round, totodin ei vicious circle theke beronor kono rasta
> aachhe ki ? Amar to mone hoina.

Maane byapaarta ki janento, aei rokom discrimination oboshyo cheleder
khetre-o aache. Jodi arranged marriage kortei hoi, tobe aakjon M.Ba.-r
dor kintu M.A.-r theke beshi meye-der chokhe, :). Kintu jai hok, aamra
aakhon oi problem discuss korchi na. Sheta na hoi bhobishshoter jonyo
tola thaaklo.

>
> Tobe h(n)aa, ei programming ba language shikhe jhot-pot chaakri paoa
> byapar-ta(jodio sotti) kintu besh mojar concept.

Aare mojar ki bolchen, ayake-baare shonai-shohaga. Miya-bibi dujonei
khushi,:)

>
> iti
> dukkhito
> Somdev.

Iti shomodukhi,
Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Supratik Das wrote:
>
> Amar mone hoy jehetu arranged marriage-er modhey ekta 'deal' korar
> byapar ache, sehetu economics, apart from looks, je important hobe seta
> khub sababhik.

Nishchoi, undeniable. Kintu art-s pora meye, maane aei dhorun history,
sanskrit, education etc., tara je aakebaare murkho, incapable; aamon
bhabar kono karon aache ki?

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Rajiv Shukla wrote:
>

> Jodi pore thake tahole ki habe?
>
> Rajiv

Jab baba, hobe aabar ki? Poreche kina tai jante chaichilaam. Maane
discrimination-ta kotota widespread, tai jante chaowa aar ki.

Sharmila

[Sambit Basu]

s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:

>Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom

> discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara
>daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
>bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
>joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
>hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
>na? Aapnara ki bolen?

> Iti chintito,

Er theke-o boDo chintar byapar achhe. Scene-ta ektu bodle
erokom kore din:

"Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon *chhelera*, jara
*Adonis* noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni;
motaa-muti bhabe BA/MA*/BSc/MSc/BE/ME/BTech/MTech/MBBS/MD/
BCom/MCom/MBA...* paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o

nei je oporpokkher joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe;
chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki hobe?

(Highlighted ongshogulo ami bodlechhi)

Ei set-ta kintu onek beshi boDo. Eder niye-o ektu chinta korun!!

Regards,
Sambit

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Sharmila K. Mukherjee (s...@bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
: Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond

: korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer
: byapaare meye jodi kono arts subject niye pora-shona kore thaakey, tobey
: biyer bajaare tar dor kome jai, e rokom kono ghotona ki aapnader chokhe

: poreche? Aami deshe thaakte du-aakjon-er mukhe e rokom shunechilaam,

: je tara science/engg.-er meye biye korte aagrohi. Taader modhye
: aakjon-ke kaaron jiggesh koraate she janalo je he wants to have
: "meaningful, intelligent and logical" conversations with his wife
: and if the girl is from science/engg.stream, the probability of
: having such is greater. Tini science-pora meye-i biye korechilen

Eiyrokom amio sunechi|

: kintu conversation-e kotota successful hote perechen aamar

: oboshyo khoNj kora hoi ni. Tobey aami ota minority opinion bhebe
: taamon patta dei ni.
: E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o
: Arts-er meye biye korte taamon utshaahi non. Kaaron? TNader boktobbyo
: je bou-era to baarite boshe thaakbe na, bore hoye jaabe. Taader aakta
: kichu kora dorkaar.Aakta kichu bolte aajkaal je jinishta khub cholche
: ta holo programming.Chaaridik-e dekhchi je onek-e biye kore desh thekey
: bou niye aashche, tara eshe-i jhot-pot du-chaarte language shikhe felche.
: Tarpor jodi work-permit peye jai, tobey to kella fotey! Chotokhato chaakri

: peye jachche. Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron, again,

: the probability of their learning the languages very fast and consequently

: getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom

This is not true. Sharmila, my friend's wife is an MA in History,
a mother of two kids and has never worked out before. Yet she
had no problems learning a Multimedia/GUI course in Visual
Basic. It was pretty amazing how she handled programming . She
was helped along the way by her husband. The only reason I guess
any arts girl might find it difficult to program is a lack
of confidence, which is a common tendency in many of us for any
new endeavour. However it was a pleasure to watch her progress
and do well.
That brings me to the question that if anyone can do programming
then what is the halo associated with computer science? In non
computer science disciplines, I can say from a numerical programming
view point that the daunting things are probably the maze of
symbols in a book, dealing with applied mathematics. (Also
a lot of hidden physical concepts).
On the other hand programming as Sayan has pointed out requires
mostly logical thinking and anyone with confidence and practice
can do it.
As about programming being the in-thing, let's face the fact
that the society is changing from a mnufacturing to information one.
You do not really need technology to build bridges/car any more.
Let Japanese Engineeers do it for you at a cheaper rate while
you keep track of their salries in your database.

: discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara

: daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
: bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
: joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
: hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
: na? Aapnara ki bolen?

People in this newsgroup have cried hoarse about how the
survival for the fittest technique should be applied to
everything in life.
However as the post-modernism movement shows, there is a tremendous
place for intuitive thinking and the arts subjects like music
probably help in that.

: Iti chintito,
: Sharmila

One question to sayanbabu:-

Where those "nakal buddhi"(Artificial Intelligence)" has
a place in his anarcho-syndicalist commune?

Speaking for Chinta Sharmila
Snehasis

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <31875F...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

SM> sayan bhattacharyya wrote:

>> I don't see why learning a programming language should be necessarily any
>> harder for a humanities student than it is for an arts or humanities student.

SM> Right, it is not, but how many people wait to think about it? My point
SM> was that this is a prevailing misconception adding fuel to a very
SM> unjustified discrimination.

Now we are quibbling about discrimination based on whether someone can
learn a programming language! Boy, I love this newsgroup! :-)

-Shubu

--

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <318764...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

SM> Maane byapaarta ki janento, aei rokom discrimination oboshyo cheleder
SM> khetre-o aache. Jodi arranged marriage kortei hoi, tobe aakjon M.Ba.-r
SM> dor kintu M.A.-r theke beshi meye-der chokhe, :). Kintu jai hok, aamra
SM> aakhon oi problem discuss korchi na. Sheta na hoi bhobishshoter jonyo
SM> tola thaaklo.

E to bhari moja. Ekhon dekhi discussion-eo ghor discrimination!!

Arranged marriage-e shobai shubhide-badi. Amar baba-ma-ra meyeder
gan-bajna-ranna-banna shikiyechhe bhalo biye dewar jonno. E juger
baba-ma-ra tar shong-e NIIT-te programming shekhab-e meyder.
Competitive market! Ki aar korben bolun? :-)

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <318765...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

>> Amar mone hoy jehetu arranged marriage-er modhey ekta 'deal' korar
>> byapar ache, sehetu economics, apart from looks, je important hobe seta
>> khub sababhik.

SM> Nishchoi, undeniable. Kintu art-s pora meye, maane aei dhorun history,
SM> sanskrit, education etc., tara je aakebaare murkho, incapable; aamon
SM> bhabar kono karon aache ki?

Ek kaaj korun. Arts-er meyeder arts-er chheleder shong-e biye diye
din. Jhamela shesh!! Naki tat-e oshubhidhe achhe? :-)

[Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar]

In article <4m5910$j...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:
|> Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond
|> korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
|> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

|> E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o
|> Arts-er meye biye korte taamon utshaahi non. Kaaron? TNader boktobbyo
|> je bou-era to baarite boshe thaakbe na, bore hoye jaabe. Taader aakta
|> kichu kora dorkaar.Aakta kichu bolte aajkaal je jinishta khub cholche
|> ta holo programming.Chaaridik-e dekhchi je onek-e biye kore desh thekey
|> bou niye aashche, tara eshe-i jhot-pot du-chaarte language shikhe felche.
|> Tarpor jodi work-permit peye jai, tobey to kella fotey! Chotokhato chaakri
|> peye jachche. Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron, again,
|> the probability of their learning the languages very fast and consequently
|> getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom

|> discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara
|> daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
|> bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
|> joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
|> hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
|> na? Aapnara ki bolen?

Ki mushkil !!! jodi kono gun-i na thake tahole ki kore cholbe ?
"daana kata pori" noi, "programming/Science jane na", "babar
poisa nei", "chakri-o nei" tahole ki kore hobe ? Niden pokkhe kibhabe
chhele -der potate hoi seta to ayotto kora uchit tahole.
Chupi chupi bole rakhi : generally
"nice guy" -der pakrao kora soja. Eta specialization-er jug kina,
tai kono ekta quality-te specialize to kortei hobe :-)

Amar ki mone hoy janen? Eder abostha sei sab chheleder mato - jara
lekhaporai khub sadharon, Engg./Med. entrance -e batil, kono janoganer
college-e B.Com ba B.Sc. Pass course niye pora, babar business -o nei,
baper temon poisa-o nei je ghush diye bhalo chakri jutiye debe, abar nijer
kobjir jor-o nei je mastani/gundami/rajniti korbe, tai kono chhotokhato
office-e chhotokhato chakri kore, ..... sejonno dirghodiner premika hothat
kono daktar/MBA ba US basi computer professional -er sathe biyer offer
peye jhot kore take bhule champot diyechhe. Eder katha kakhono
bhebechhen ki ?

|> Iti chintito,
|> Sharmila
|>

Ato chinta kore shudhu shudhu nijer time/energy kharoch korben na.
"Chintamoyi" -i sakol chinta korchhen, sakol -i t(n)ahar -i ichachha,
amra sabai nimitto matro :-)
Shubhechhante
Pradipta.

--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <318761...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

SM> She ki? Shobai aamader majority SCB jonotader moto shob shomoi
SM> gurugombhir aalochona kore peter oshukhe bhugbe? Ki je bolen...

Gurugombhir? Gotakotok a(n)tel chhara (count me out) ei newsgroup-e
aar keu gurugombhir kina amar ghor shondeho!

[Indranil DasGupta]

Sharmila K. Mukherjee (s...@bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:

Prothomei bola dorkar je kono meye-i phalna noy.

Tobe biyer bapaare, market anujai dam bare kome. Ak shomoy gaan-faan
janle chahida beshi chhilo. Akhon chakri-r potential-ta-i chokhe pore
beshi (byektigoto obhigyota). Tobe khNati shotyi kotha bolbo?
Feminist-ra tere ashben, kintu mukhosrir shorbotro joy. Arts-i hok ar
science-i hok, ajkalkar chhok-rara jotoi baro baro `intelligent
conversation'-er kotha boluk, ashole shokolei ekti mishti-mukh dekhbe
bole boshe achhe. Birol kichhu chheler mukhe ektu be-line-er kotha
shunechhi. Apnader priyo ak netter amay bolechhe:
"Khub beshi shundori hole cholbe na Guru. Rakhte parbo na!"

Apnar oi science bhokto chheletike ekti dana kata pori ene din. Totla,
boba, shob cholbe.

Karon biyeta to loke thik kotha bolar jonyo kore na. Tahole to Apratim
ar Sayan-babu-r biye keu thekate parto na.

Indranil.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether
they will be interested in working outside the home, which
the greed for money/survival needs/society-orientation in
America dictates.
Snehasis

[Sharmila K. Mukherjee]

Sambit Basu (sam...@gandalf.rutgers.edu) wrote:

: Er theke-o boDo chintar byapar achhe. Scene-ta ektu bodle
: erokom kore din:

: "Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon *chhelera*, jara
: *Adonis* noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni;
: motaa-muti bhabe BA/MA*/BSc/MSc/BE/ME/BTech/MTech/MBBS/MD/
: BCom/MCom/MBA...* paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o

: nei je oporpokkher joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe;
: chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki hobe?

: (Highlighted ongshogulo ami bodlechhi)

: Ei set-ta kintu onek beshi boDo. Eder niye-o ektu chinta korun!!

Eta ektu barabari hoye jaachche naki? Etao problem shotti, kintu
aamader deshe aakhono obibahito konya obibahito putre-r thekey beshi
jontronadayok. Uporokto opogun(?) thaka-te jodi cheler biye na hoi, tobe
baba ma bolben, jaa re, chore kha. Kintu aajker shomaaj byabosthai she
rokom kotha konya ke bolte paren kojon baba ma?

: Regards,
: Sambit

Regards,
Sharmila

[Sharmila K. Mukherjee]

Snehasis Ganguly (sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu) wrote:
: .............. Tini science-pora meye-i biye korechilen

: Eiyrokom amio sunechi|

Jak baba, tahole aarekjon witness paowa galo; noile loke
mone korto je e shob aamar mon gora, :)

: E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o.........
: the probability of their learning the languages very fast and

consequently getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat!

: This is not true. Sharmila, my friend's wife is an MA in History,

: a mother of two kids and has never worked out before. Yet she
: had no problems learning a Multimedia/GUI course in Visual
: Basic. It was pretty amazing how she handled programming . She
: was helped along the way by her husband. The only reason I guess
: any arts girl might find it difficult to program is a lack
: of confidence, which is a common tendency in many of us for any
: new endeavour. However it was a pleasure to watch her progress
: and do well.

Aare ki aashchorjyo! Aami ki aaykbaar-o bolechi je arts-er
meyera parbe na? Aamar-o to shei kotha, je biyer patro-ra shei
rokom misconception-e bhugchen. Fole, bemaaloom discrimination!

Aar yea, maane kichu mone koro na, programming/comp.science-er
goon gaowa oboshyo bhalo, kintu ektu(khub ektu) topic-er baire
chole jaachche na ki? :)

Speaking for Chinta Sharmila
Snehasis

Aar, maane, aami kichu chinta korechi bote tobe "Chinta Sharmila"
upadhi paowa-r moto noi bodh hoi, :)

Sharmila

[chitro...@fmr.com]

Sharmila Mukherjee wrote:
Ekta byapar surprising laagchey - ontoto amra jokhon kolkatay chilaam 6-7
years aage, tokhon kintu public arts-er meyeder niyei beshi golpo korto.
For example, Jadavpur Univ. Arts-er meye manei cheleder chokhe ek
sanghatik bastoo. Sei tulonai science-r "serious-looking", logical-minded
meyeder demand ba chahida kom chilo. Concept-gulo ki din-din paalte
jacchey, naki biyer byapare loke moner theke mathar prayog beshi korchey?

Iti -
bisway-sahakare,
Chitravanu

[D.Ray]

Arts er meyera fyalna noi...Issue ta onektai orthonoitik. E dese
jara kichudeen holo achen, tara nischoi dekchen ekjoner pokhkhe
songshar chalano ta ektu difficult. Ekta family te swami-stree
dujonei rojgar korle, onektai arthik sachchondo ashe.

Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
holo software engineering i.e programming jana. Jodio software
engineering korte temon konoi pre-reqs lage na (hoito, ei dik theke
programming khub kom subjects er ekti jekhane science/arts/engg
theke je keu aste pare), tobuo bongo sontanera science/engg er
background er meyeder ke pochondo kore bhobishshoter stree hisebe,
karon, tara (hoito) bhabe je science/engg er meyeder necessary
background ache. Ei background ki ? Math/Physics/Chem kinba
bivinno Engg discipline er course ?? Ami software engineer hoye
bolte pari, kichuta logically bhabna chinta korar khomota chara
temon kichu 'pre-req' proyojonio noi programming korte. Ja kichu
proyojon, ta khub ekta kath-khor na puriye sekha jai. Arts pora
meyerao software e aste pare. Hnaa, ekta osubidhe hote pare univ'r
admissions office e pre-req courses niye. Tobe once they can get
admitted (hoito ektu convincing korte hobe admissions office e)
it should be no big deal to do software engineering.

Tobe, arts pora meyeder sudhu software engineering keno, aro kichu
area tei tara e dese porashona kore chakri korte pare. Udahoron: Business
degree niye bank e kaj kora jete pare. Biology/Chem e pore
pharmaceutical companies e chakri paoa jai. Education e degree niye
school e porano jai. Tobe, shikar korbo je software industry te
chakri paoar sujog onek beshi.

Sutorang, amar mote, arts er meyeder ekhankar bengali cheleder
stree hisebe opochonder karon duti:
1. Arts er meye ki kore programming etc shikbe, jeta kore sohoje
chakri paoa jai ?
2. (Related to 1) Arts er meyera ki kore sohoje chakri korbe ?
School e na jete parle/chakri na pele barite bose bored hobe.

Konotai puro-puri thik noi. Bondhu-bandhob der modhdhe jara ei bhabe
bhabna - chinta kore, tader ke chesta kora jete pare ei reasoning
er bhul bojhate...e chara, jani na ...

Shubechchante, Debapriya.

ps. Ami ei newsgroup sob somoi follow kori na. Keu discussion korte chaile
amake sorasori email korte paren.

[D.Ray]

Snehasis, from what I have heard about current living conditions in
cities in India, a 2-person earning family is very essential for
'good' living. (Of course, the definitions of 'good' may vary from
person to person, which might be yet another topic for discussion).
However, I agree with your observation...Regards, Debapriya.

[Sharmila K. Mukherjee]

Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar (psa...@iastate.edu) wrote:

: Ki mushkil !!! jodi kono gun-i na thake tahole ki kore cholbe ?

: "daana kata pori" noi, "programming/Science jane na", "babar
: poisa nei", "chakri-o nei" tahole ki kore hobe ? Niden pokkhe kibhabe
: chhele -der potate hoi seta to ayotto kora uchit tahole.

Ta ja bolechen, tobe byaparta ki janen? Chele potano ki shoja
byapaar naaki? Baap re, aajkaalkar chelera pot-tei chai na; gaan shonabo,
bhalo ranna korte cheshta korbo, aei shob bolle-o na, :(

: Chupi chupi bole rakhi : generally

: "nice guy" -der pakrao kora soja.

Ektu funda-ta din na, deshe mass-scale-e chithi chari.

: Amar ki mone hoy janen? Eder abostha sei sab chheleder mato - jara

: lekhaporai khub sadharon, Engg./Med. entrance -e batil, kono janoganer
: college-e B.Com ba B.Sc. Pass course niye pora, babar business -o nei,
: baper temon poisa-o nei je ghush diye bhalo chakri jutiye debe, abar nijer
: kobjir jor-o nei je mastani/gundami/rajniti korbe, tai kono chhotokhato
: office-e chhotokhato chakri kore, ..... sejonno dirghodiner premika hothat
: kono daktar/MBA ba US basi computer professional -er sathe biyer offer
: peye jhot kore take bhule champot diyechhe. Eder katha kakhono
: bhebechhen ki ?

Bhabi ni ki aar! She to ulto khetre-o projojyo, maane ja niye
aami bolchilaam aar ki! Kintu tai bole aakta problem-er shaamne
aarekta problem-ke dNaar koriye dile kichu laabh hoi ki? Konotar-ee
to shomadhan hoi na.

: |> Iti chintito,
: |> Sharmila
: |>

: Ato chinta kore shudhu shudhu nijer time/energy kharoch korben na.
: "Chintamoyi" -i sakol chinta korchhen, sakol -i t(n)ahar -i ichachha,
: amra sabai nimitto matro :-)
: Shubhechhante
: Pradipta.

:
Aare bangali ke chinta korte baron korchen? Tahole bNaachbo ki
kore? Aar Chintamoyi thaakle-o kaaj to nimitto-der diyei hobe, ki
bolen? Aar aei aamar lekha pore aakjon bachelor-er-o jodi ektu
chaitonyo hoi, tobei aami nijekey dhonnyo mone korbo, :)

Aapnake-o shubhechcha,
Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Snehasis Ganguly wrote:
>
> I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
> girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether
> they will be interested in working outside the home, which
> the greed for money/survival needs/society-orientation in
> America dictates.
> Snehasis

Aei baar ritimoton uthe dNarate hochche. Tar maane tumi bolte chaicho
je science/engg. meyera arts-er meyeder thekey baire kaaj korte beshi
utshahi? E rokom blatant generalization-er kono karon aache ki? Aar
"working outside"-er shongey "working inside"-er ki shomporko? Duto to
completely different issue. Shoto 'outside' work-o 'inside' work rukhte
pereche ki?
Tomar aei kotha-r opor further aalokpater ashai,
Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

chitro...@fmr.com wrote:

> Ekta byapar surprising laagchey.............................. Concept-gulo ki din-din paalte

> jacchey, naki biyer byapare loke moner theke mathar prayog beshi korchey?
>
> Iti -
> bisway-sahakare,
> Chitravanu

Aapni ashol kotha-ta nijei thik dhore felechen. Shombondho kore biye
jokhon, tokhon aar moner proshno aashche kothai bolun? She ta to puro
subtle-maacher-baajar. Tobey eta thik, je jai boluk, inflation-er
jonyo-i hok aar jai hok, shudhu roop-e aajkaal aar cholche na,
aakeybaare chokh dNaadhiye deowar moto na hole. She rokom roop aar kota
chokhe pore bolun?

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Indranil DasGupta wrote:
Tobe khNati shotyi kotha bolbo?
> Feminist-ra tere ashben, kintu mukhosrir shorbotro joy. Arts-i hok ar
> science-i hok, ajkalkar chhok-rara jotoi baro baro `intelligent
> conversation'-er kotha boluk, ashole shokolei ekti mishti-mukh dekhbe
> bole boshe achhe.

Aare tahole to problem-ee chilo na, maane mishti mukh(dana kata pori
noi) pele-i jodi cholto, tahole ki eta aato boro issue hoto? Chelera
chaichen mishti mukh aabar bhalo chaakri-o, gaacher-o aabar tolar-o, :).
Aakhon aabar jeta chalu hoyeche, je mishti mukh laagbe na, dekhle chokh
firiye nitey hoi, aamon bhoyonkor na holei holo, kintu chaakri chai-ee
chai. Eta aamar nijer kaane shona.

Birol kichhu chheler mukhe ektu be-line-er kotha
> shunechhi. Apnader priyo ak netter amay bolechhe:
> "Khub beshi shundori hole cholbe na Guru. Rakhte parbo na!"

Aare dur moshai, sheto onyo shomoshya. Aar shei shomoshya meyeder nei
mone koren? Phew!

>
> Apnar oi science bhokto chheletike ekti dana kata pori ene din. Totla,
> boba, shob cholbe.

aami aar kotha thekey ene debo bolun? jar jar bhaggyo, :)

>
> Karon biyeta to loke thik kotha bolar jonyo kore na. Tahole to Apratim
> ar Sayan-babu-r biye keu thekate parto na.
>
> Indranil.

Objection, eta kintu personal attack hoye jaachche. Aamra ekhane
objectively discuss korar cheshta korchi, :).AAr kotha heen biye?
Shunlei to bhoi korche, :)

Sharmila

PS Aapnara kara kara tere aashchen, tai hisheb rekhe aami aapnader
actual monobhaab jana-r khub cheshtai aachi, :)

[sayan bhattacharyya]

Snehasis Ganguly <sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu> wrote:

> I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
> girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether
> they will be interested in working outside the home,

I don't get this. What does the motivation to work outside the home
have to do with whether one is a science graduate or an arts graduate?

Secondly, I think the word "girl" as you and others are using in
this discussion is derogatory and disrespectful. You should have
the courtesy to use the word "woman" instead. Unless, of course,
you are advocating child marriage, in which case the word "girl"
would have been appropriate. (The Bengali word "meye" means both
"girl" and "woman", depending on the context, and in this context,
since the discussion was about nubile females, clearly the sense
of "woman" and not "girl" was intended.)

-Sayan.

[Sharmila K. Mukherjee]

D.Ray (debap...@vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
: Arts er meyera fyalna noi...Issue ta onektai orthonoitik. E dese
...........(stuff deleted)........................................
: Konotai puro-puri thik noi. Bondhu-bandhob der modhdhe jara ei bhabe

: bhabna - chinta kore, tader ke chesta kora jete pare ei reasoning
: er bhul bojhate...e chara, jani na ...

: Shubechchante, Debapriya.

Khub bhalo laaglo aapnar lekha pore. Aapni je aamar post-ta
sincerely porechen, aamar motei mot diyechen aar more importantly, kichu
upai baatlechen,tate aami kritogyo. Onek dhonyobaad.

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Shubu Mukherjee wrote:

>
> E to bhari moja. Ekhon dekhi discussion-eo ghor discrimination!!

Shububabu, aapnar shob reply-gulo pore mone holo aakmaatro aei
tatei kichu bola jete paare. Aapni discrimination kothai dekhlen? Aami
shudhu bolechi je aykta problem-er ghare aarekta problem na chaapiye
sheguli individually discuss kora hok.

>
> Arranged marriage-e shobai shubhide-badi. Amar baba-ma-ra meyeder
> gan-bajna-ranna-banna shikiyechhe bhalo biye dewar jonno. E juger
> baba-ma-ra tar shong-e NIIT-te programming shekhab-e meyder.
> Competitive market! Ki aar korben bolun? :-)

Eta kintu ektu mushkil byapaar. Aei bhaabe din-e din-e
lokeder chahida change hobe, aar tar shonge pallaa dite giye boyoshko
manush-ra je him-shim khaben, sheta ki khub uchit hobe? Tar cheye
arranged marriage jodi korte-i hoi, tobe sheta ki bhabe improve kora
jai, tai chinta korle bhalo hoi na ki? Ki bolen?

Sharmila
>
> -Shubu
> --
>

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
name for programmers.

[Dasgupta]

I felt the same way as Chitrabhanu did in this issue. Presidency-teo dekhechchi
Science Stream-er chchelera English honours-er meyeder ektu shombhrom-er chokhe
dekhto. Onekshomoye English/Political Science/Philosophy-r meyera IIT-r
chcheleder preme-i poDto.

Amar ekjon priyo nettor-er didi, amar bondhu, IIT-r ekjon chomothkar chcheler
shongey prem korey ekhon besh aachchey. Shey to Philosophy Honours poDto.
Kobey thekey hothath eishob bodley Science-er meyeder chahida baDlo ?

Curious,

Shoumyo.

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <3187CE...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

SM> Shubu Mukherjee wrote:

>> E to bhari moja. Ekhon dekhi discussion-eo ghor discrimination!!

SM> Shububabu, aapnar shob reply-gulo pore mone holo aakmaatro aei
SM> tatei kichu bola jete paare. Aapni discrimination kothai dekhlen? Aami
SM> shudhu bolechi je aykta problem-er ghare aarekta problem na chaapiye
SM> sheguli individually discuss kora hok.

That was supposed be a joke! Kothai kothai discrimination tulchhen
apni, kintu jei chheleder kotha utlo, apni bollen, por-e sheshob kotha
hob-e! Sheta discrimination noi? :-)

>> Arranged marriage-e shobai shubhide-badi. Amar baba-ma-ra meyeder
>> gan-bajna-ranna-banna shikiyechhe bhalo biye dewar jonno. E juger
>> baba-ma-ra tar shong-e NIIT-te programming shekhab-e meyder.
>> Competitive market! Ki aar korben bolun? :-)

SM> Eta kintu ektu mushkil byapaar. Aei bhaabe din-e din-e
SM> lokeder chahida change hobe, aar tar shonge pallaa dite giye boyoshko
SM> manush-ra je him-shim khaben, sheta ki khub uchit hobe? Tar cheye
SM> arranged marriage jodi korte-i hoi, tobe sheta ki bhabe improve kora
SM> jai, tai chinta korle bhalo hoi na ki? Ki bolen?

Shomoyer shong-e manush jodi na paltai, tahole natural law of
evolution (survival of the fittest) will take care of them.

Actually, "boyoshko manush" factor-ta jodi baad diy-e den, dekben onek
problem kom-e jab-e.

[Indrani DasGupta]

Sharmila Mukherjee writes...

>Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond
> korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------

>Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer
>byapaare meye jodi kono arts subject niye pora-shona kore thaakey, tobey
>biyer bajaare tar dor kome jai, e rokom kono ghotona ki aapnader chokhe
>poreche? Aami deshe thaakte du-aakjon-er mukhe e rokom shunechilaam,
> je tara science/engg.-er meye biye korte aagrohi. Taader modhye
> aakjon-ke kaaron jiggesh koraate she janalo je he wants to have
>"meaningful, intelligent and logical" conversations with his wife
> and if the girl is from science/engg.stream, the probability of

> having such is greater. Tini science-pora meye-i biye korechilen

> kintu conversation-e kotota successful hote perechen aamar
>oboshyo khoNj kora hoi ni. Tobey aami ota minority opinion bhebe
> taamon patta dei ni.

> E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o
> Arts-er meye biye korte taamon utshaahi non. Kaaron? TNader boktobbyo
> je bou-era to baarite boshe thaakbe na, bore hoye jaabe. Taader aakta
> kichu kora dorkaar.Aakta kichu bolte aajkaal je jinishta khub cholche
> ta holo programming.Chaaridik-e dekhchi je onek-e biye kore desh thekey
> bou niye aashche, tara eshe-i jhot-pot du-chaarte language shikhe
felche.
>Tarpor jodi work-permit peye jai, tobey to kella fotey! Chotokhato
chaakri
>peye jachche. Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron,
again,

>the probability of their learning the languages very fast and
consequently

>getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom

> discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara
>daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni;
motaa-muti
>bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher

>joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki

>hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o
jootbe
>na? Aapnara ki bolen?

> Iti chintito,
> Sharmila
>

E aar ashchojje-r ki aachhe? Eta to khub shoja. Maitreyee Debi-ke (daana
kaata pori-i hoyto tNake bola jete parto) ekti chhele dekhte eshe reject
korechhilo uni lomba chhilen na bole...chhele-ti nije besh bNete chhilo.
Ta shey jokhon arekti bNete meye-ke baatil koraar shomoy taar besh lomba
thakuma-r dike taakiye bolechhilo - "ba, apni to khub lomba dekhchhi?"
Tokhon tini haath ghuriye bolen..."kintu taile-o to bachha tomake ami
biya kotte parmuni!"

Apni 'Arts'-er jaygay 'ujjol shyamborna-orophe kaalo' ityaadi boshiye
din. Shob-i ak. Shombondho kore biye maane-i discrimination. Sheta hoy
biye-r aage noy pore hoye thhake. Tokhon language bolte shoshur-shaashuri
othoba 'bor'-ke 'tushto' korbaar buli chhaDa aar kichchhu shikhe ba aauDe
laabh nei.

Indrani.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Sharmila Mukherjee (s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
: Rajiv Shukla wrote:
: >

: > Jodi pore thake tahole ki habe?
: >
: > Rajiv

:
: Jab baba, hobe aabar ki? Poreche kina tai jante chaichilaam. Maane
: discrimination-ta kotota widespread, tai jante chaowa aar ki.

: Sharmila

Eiy kaar chokhey ki poreche(beralchana na dhulo) eiy
discussion ta bhari adbhut. Eta onekta Nazi officer ke
Jew der against -etey discrimination hochhe kina jigyesh
korar moton|
Chokey chosma lagiye
Snehasis

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Sharmila Mukherjee (s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
: Supratik Das wrote:
: >
: > Amar mone hoy jehetu arranged marriage-er modhey ekta 'deal' korar

: > byapar ache, sehetu economics, apart from looks, je important hobe seta

Eiy deal ta Love marriage etey hoena, er kono proman
aache ?

: > khub sababhik.

: Nishchoi, undeniable. Kintu art-s pora meye, maane aei dhorun history,
: sanskrit, education etc., tara je aakebaare murkho, incapable; aamon
: bhabar kono karon aache ki?

Karon kichu nei.. tobey ami ekta implicit kotha
bolchi..loke bhabey eiy sob subject etey "bhatona"
jai, maney brain na use kore chaliye dewaa jai aar ki|
Amader India te to tai hoey..edeshe hoena..
Ekhaney arts subject eteo bhaloi khatuni..bhatiye
berona mushkil

: Sharmila

Snehasis

[Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar]

In article <4m8dhc$n...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:
|> Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar (psa...@iastate.edu) wrote:
|>
|> : Ki mushkil !!! jodi kono gun-i na thake tahole ki kore cholbe ?
|> : "daana kata pori" noi, "programming/Science jane na", "babar
|> : poisa nei", "chakri-o nei" tahole ki kore hobe ? Niden pokkhe kibhabe
|> : chhele -der potate hoi seta to ayotto kora uchit tahole.
|>
|> Ta ja bolechen, tobe byaparta ki janen? Chele potano ki shoja
|> byapaar naaki? Baap re, aajkaalkar chelera pot-tei chai na; gaan shonabo,
|> bhalo ranna korte cheshta korbo, aei shob bolle-o na, :(
|>

Bolen ki pote na mane ! Fatafat pote jai. Mairi bolchhi, ekdom
dibbi diye, last ek bachhor-e amar
porichito 5 ta case-er modhye 4-te successful. Shudhu ekta khetre case ektu
kelo hoye gechhe. On the other hand, amar porichito anek chhele-i
bivinno meye-r preme habudubu kheyechhe/khachchhe, kintu gato ek bachhor-e matro
1 jon-i successful hoyechhe, ar ekta case ekhono jhule achhe ... baki sab
daha fail :-(

|> : Chupi chupi bole rakhi : generally
|> : "nice guy" -der pakrao kora soja.
|>
|>
|> Ektu funda-ta din na, deshe mass-scale-e chithi chari.
|>

E ar ami ki bolbo. Apnar bandhobi-der jigges korun; tader modhye nishchoy
emon kono ostad peye jaben je bhalo funda dite parbe ... Tobe in general
kichhu strategy to kaj korei thake. Jemon dhorun theatre, Nandan
ba kono cinema hall -e bhalo movie dekhte jabar amontron janano, ba kono
restaurent ityadi ar ki ... Bangali meyeder abar aro ekta advantage achhe -
esab khetre tader poisa-r chintao korte hoy na, generally chhelerai seta
deye. Sutorang nothing to lose, hole holo na hole ektu furti kora gelo
onner poisai :-)

Tobe sab theke bhalo upai holo GRE TOEFL diye kono rakom-e jekono American
University -te jekono stream-e (ta se History, Pol Sc., Fashion Technology
jai hok na keno ... ) MA korte chole asa. Edeshe Bangali chhele
meye-r distribution-ta jerakom skewed, onno ek netter -er bhashaye
"ekebar-e dekhe mukh firiye nebar mato na hole" chance is very high that she
will be able to find a nice guy. Sekhetre computer jana na-jana, Science
bojha na-bojha kono samosya-i na. Bola jai na bhagya bhalo thakle
handsome American citizen-o jute jete pare :-) Jodio ekta bhoy thekei jai
je kono din sakale uthe se hoito bole boslo "Sweetie, I don't feel love
for you anymore". Tobe erakam je hobei tar to kono katha nei. Let's hope for the
best.

|>
|> : Amar ki mone hoy janen? Eder abostha sei sab chheleder mato - jara
|> : lekhaporai khub sadharon, Engg./Med. entrance -e batil, kono janoganer
|> : college-e B.Com ba B.Sc. Pass course niye pora, babar business -o nei,
|> : baper temon poisa-o nei je ghush diye bhalo chakri jutiye debe, abar nijer
|> : kobjir jor-o nei je mastani/gundami/rajniti korbe, tai kono chhotokhato
|> : office-e chhotokhato chakri kore, ..... sejonno dirghodiner premika hothat
|> : kono daktar/MBA ba US basi computer professional -er sathe biyer offer
|> : peye jhot kore take bhule champot diyechhe. Eder katha kakhono
|> : bhebechhen ki ?
|>
|>
|> Bhabi ni ki aar! She to ulto khetre-o projojyo, maane ja niye
|> aami bolchilaam aar ki! Kintu tai bole aakta problem-er shaamne
|> aarekta problem-ke dNaar koriye dile kichu laabh hoi ki? Konotar-ee
|> to shomadhan hoi na.
|>

Na na ami ekta problem er samne ar ekta problem d(n)aar koriye dichchhi
na. Ami boli ki duto problem -er samadhan ek sathe holei bhalo hoy na ki?
Dekhun Sharmila (***, please use the suffix of your choice; SCB -te debi, manobi
thread-er por ami bhishon confused, kake ki bole sambodhon korbo, - didi,debi,
manobi na shudhu nam dhore ... ) , amar mone hoy ki je eisab samosyar jonno
chheleder theke meyerai beshi dayi - antato amra ei SCB -r beshir bhag netter
to middle class Bangali family theke esechhe, ei middle class family gulote
meyera mukhe baro baro katha bole kintu kajer belay kissu na. Bangali
professional chhelera to tao kichhu Arts pora meye-ke biye kore. Kintu
ulto-ta kota dekhechhen bolun dekhi ? Engg./Med. pora meyera hoito
kakhono kono Arts pora prem kore thakte pare. Kintu kajer belay
sei nyaka nyaka "amar hat dhore tumi niye chalo sakha ami je path chini ne"
type -er gan gaite ar ager bhalobasha bhule tathakothito "supatrer" sathe
biye kore chompot dite ostad. Jedin
Bangali Engg./Computer professional/Science graduate or whatever ...
meyera sahos kore B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course chheleder biye korte
parbe - bhalobeshe, chape pore noi, sedin-i ei samosyar samadhan hote pare.
Otherwise hobe na, apni ami jatoi chinta kori na keno.

|> : |> Iti chintito,
|> : |> Sharmila
|> : |>
|>
|> : Ato chinta kore shudhu shudhu nijer time/energy kharoch korben na.
|> : "Chintamoyi" -i sakol chinta korchhen, sakol -i t(n)ahar -i ichachha,
|> : amra sabai nimitto matro :-)
|> : Shubhechhante
|> : Pradipta.
|> :
|> Aare bangali ke chinta korte baron korchen? Tahole bNaachbo ki
|> kore? Aar Chintamoyi thaakle-o kaaj to nimitto-der diyei hobe, ki
|> bolen? Aar aei aamar lekha pore aakjon bachelor-er-o jodi ektu
|> chaitonyo hoi, tobei aami nijekey dhonnyo mone korbo, :)
|>
|>
|> Aapnake-o shubhechcha,
|> Sharmila

Amio nijeke dhonno mone korbo, jodi middle class Bangali meyera
oisab B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course, kobji o takar jor bihin sadashidhe
sarol moti chheleder pashe d(n)ariye tader dike sahajjer hat bariye deye
tahole. Jani na kota Bangali meyer serakom sahos ba ichchhe achhe?

Anek dhanyabad o shubhechchha-saha
Pradipta.

"Sakol-i tomar-i ichchha, ichchha moyi tara tumi ....."

--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu

[Rajiv Shukla]

In article <SHUBU.96M...@providence.cs.wisc.edu> sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) writes:
>
>>>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:
>
>DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
>DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.
>
>Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>
>The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
>name for programmers.
>

>-Shubu
>--
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
>
>

In case you didn't know, *programming* is also a well-established area
in computer science.

Rajiv

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Shomyobabu,
Aapni jeta bolte chaichen, sheta aamar thread-er thekey ektu aalada. E
bishoi-e kono shondeho nei je in general college-e pora kalin cheleder
bhir Arts dept.-er dike beshi thaakey. Aami JU-te-o tai dekhechi.
Prothom kotha hochche je aami nije pochondo kore biyer kotha aykbaar-o
bolchi na. Eta khub shabhabik je if someone is looking for a meaningful
relationship, they would start with the basics and out of which, looks
are very important. Tarpor jar jerokom pochondo, she khNuje nebe. Nijer
pochonder moto jibon shathi paowa to bhagyer byapaar. Kintu aamar
boktobbyo holo je jNara shombondho kore biye korte jaachchen, she je
karonei hok, tNader selection criteria-r opor. Please note that here I
am not trying to dictate as to what you ought and ought not to do. I am
merely ponting out the trend. Shekhaane-i aami dekhchi je jNara arts-er
meye biye korte chaichen na due to my previously mentioned reasons,
tNader modhye onekei aachen jNara college-e pora kalin shudhu Arts
lobby-te-i ghora fera korten. Biyer byapaare eshe tokhon tNara
discrimination shuru korlen. Aei trend-ta aaro joralo aei deshe, tai
aamar SCB-te lekha.
Aasha kori aami aamar point clear korte perechi. Jodi na pere thaaki,
onayashe aaro proshno korte paren.

Regards,

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> Snehasis Ganguly <sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu> wrote:
>
> > I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
> > girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether
> > they will be interested in working outside the home,
>

> ......(stuff deleted).Secondly, I think the word "girl" as you and others are using in

> this discussion is derogatory and disrespectful. You should have
> the courtesy to use the word "woman" instead.

> -Sayan.

Sayan, I dont think that Snehasis meant any disrespect when he said
girl. It is a literal tranlation of meye. Had it been a girl child as
you were suggesting, then there would have been no question of whether
she is from arts or science? Right? :)
Just thought I would clarify the point being a "girl" myself, :)

Regards,
Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Shubu Mukherjee wrote:

>
> That was supposed be a joke!

Bhaggyish bollen, aami to bujhtei pari ni, :)

Kothai kothai discrimination tulchhen
> apni,

Baare! Kothai kothai kothai tullam? aykbaar-ee to bolechi...

kintu jei chheleder kotha utlo, apni bollen, por-e sheshob kotha
> hob-e! Sheta discrimination noi? :-)

Aykdom noi, jodi aapni aamar porer explanation ta mon diye pore
thaaken, :)

>
> Shomoyer shong-e manush jodi na paltai, tahole natural law of
> evolution (survival of the fittest) will take care of them.

Shob kichu aar kothai paltachche bolun? Aei to kobekaar purono arranged
marriage, aaj obdhi chole ashche.

>
> Actually, "boyoshko manush" factor-ta jodi baad diy-e den, dekben onek
> problem kom-e jab-e.
>
> -Shubu
> --
>

Baad diye debo? Aapni jodi nijey "boyoshko manush" hoten , tobey aamon
kotha bolte parten?

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Indrani DasGupta wrote:

> Apni 'Arts'-er jaygay 'ujjol shyamborna-orophe kaalo' ityaadi boshiye
> din. Shob-i ak. Shombondho kore biye maane-i discrimination. Sheta hoy
> biye-r aage noy pore hoye thhake. Tokhon language bolte shoshur-shaashuri
> othoba 'bor'-ke 'tushto' korbaar buli chhaDa aar kichchhu shikhe ba aauDe
> laabh nei.
>
> Indrani.

Indrani, lets not be closed-minded here. Arranged marriage is still here
and I am not yet convinced that it is not useful anymore. Aamar
charidik-e aami aamon onek-ke dekhte pai, from both sexes, jNara
bhodrolok, ruchishommoto; ayk-kothai eligible, kintu nijey pochondo kore
biye korte parchen na. E deshe tar aykta main karon holo je bangali
cheleder tulonai meye kom. Tai cheshta kore-o kichu korte parchen na
dekhe onek-e badhyo hoye deshe giye arranged marriage kore aashchen.
Deshe-o dekhechi,jNara kokata/delhi-r baire kaaj koren, tNara-o tamon
bangali meye-r shannyidhye aashen na, ogottya kolkatai fire arranged
marriage. Aakhon aapni jodi bolen je bangali meye-i biye korte hobe
aamon matha-r dibyie ke diyeche, tobe kichu bolar nei. Aami shudhu shona
kotha bolchi. Shutoraang aamar kotha holo when arranged marriage is here
to stay for some time, lets make the best out of it.
Aar shoshur-shashurir kotha aar nai ba tullen. Aajkaal khub kom meye-i
aamon aachen jNara barite kurukkhetro koren na, jodi mone koren je poti
debota tNar shoshur-shashuri-ke(maane meyer baba ma-ke) upojukto
importance/morjada dichchen na, :)

Sharmila

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <4ma9l3$h...@athos.cc.bellcore.com>, ra...@ctt.bellcore.com (Rajiv Shukla) writes:

R> In article <SHUBU.96M...@providence.cs.wisc.edu> sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) writes:

>>>>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

>> Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>> engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>>
>> The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
>> name for programmers.

R> In case you didn't know, *programming* is also a well-established area
R> in computer science.

Now what makes you think that? :-)

You can't name a single department in the US that lists programming as
one of its main areas!

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar wrote:
>
> Bolen ki pote na mane ! Fatafat pote jai. Mairi bolchhi, ekdom
> dibbi diye, last ek bachhor-e amar
> porichito 5 ta case-er modhye 4-te successful. Shudhu ekta khetre case ektu
> kelo hoye gechhe. On the other hand, amar porichito anek chhele-i
> bivinno meye-r preme habudubu kheyechhe/khachchhe, kintu gato ek bachhor-e matro
> 1 jon-i successful hoyechhe, ar ekta case ekhono jhule achhe ... baki sab
> daha fail :-(

Aei to! Maha shomoshya holo! Aami bolbo pote na, aapni bolchen pote,
aakhon er shomadhan hobe ki kore?

>
> E ar ami ki bolbo. Apnar bandhobi-der jigges korun; tader modhye nishchoy
> emon kono ostad peye jaben je bhalo funda dite parbe

She na hoi korlaam, kintu aapni chele hoye aashol chabi kathi-ta ditey
parben...maane male point of view aar ki, kishe aapnara poten ityadi, :)

>
> Tobe sab theke bhalo upai holo GRE TOEFL diye kono rakom-e jekono American

> University -te.....(stuff deleted).............................

Aare dur moshai, e deshe aasha meyer kotha bolchi na, tNara to nijer
bhaggyo nijei toiri kore neben. Aami deshe pore thaka shadharon meyeder
kotha bolchi.

amar mone hoy ki je eisab samosyar jonno
> chheleder theke meyerai beshi dayi - antato amra ei SCB -r beshir bhag netter
> to middle class Bangali family theke esechhe, ei middle class family gulote
> meyera mukhe baro baro katha bole kintu kajer belay kissu na. Bangali
> professional chhelera to tao kichhu Arts pora meye-ke biye kore. Kintu
> ulto-ta kota dekhechhen bolun dekhi ? Engg./Med. pora meyera hoito
> kakhono kono Arts pora prem kore thakte pare. Kintu kajer belay
> sei nyaka nyaka "amar hat dhore tumi niye chalo sakha ami je path chini ne"
> type -er gan gaite ar ager bhalobasha bhule tathakothito "supatrer" sathe
> biye kore chompot dite ostad. Jedin
> Bangali Engg./Computer professional/Science graduate or whatever ...
> meyera sahos kore B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course chheleder biye korte
> parbe - bhalobeshe, chape pore noi, sedin-i ei samosyar samadhan hote pare.

Aei re! Apni je below the belt marte shuru korlen! Yea, maane, eta khub
shotti kotha je in general shot-patro bolte Engg./Med. pora chelei
bojhai. Tobe tar pichone to economic factor aache. Maane aami jodi BA/MA
pash kora be-chakure hoi, tobe to exactly same
qualification/disqualification-wala chele biye korle na kheye morte
hobe. Tobe hain, e kotha thik je successful(kormo khetre) meyeder
not-so-successful cheleder bish chokhe dyakha uchit noi (ebong aapni je
solution-er kotha bolchen, that is an ideal situation.) Tobe tar
pechone-o to aamader shomaj bybostha. Loke bolbe - emaa, tui nije aato
successful hoye aamon aykta biye korli? She rokom shomaaj-pressure
upekkha korar moto moner jor ko jon meyer aache bolun? Ayakta jinish
kheyal raakhben amar puro artilce-tai kintu shadharon meyeder opor base
kore, oshadharon meye-der opor noi.

>
> Amio nijeke dhonno mone korbo, jodi middle class Bangali meyera
> oisab B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course, kobji o takar jor bihin sadashidhe
> sarol moti chheleder pashe d(n)ariye tader dike sahajjer hat bariye deye
> tahole. Jani na kota Bangali meyer serakom sahos ba ichchhe achhe?

Prarthona korun, aami-o korchi, prithibi-te shobai hinksha bhule
mile-mishe thaakun; shob solution-ee jano giye ideal solution-e thyake,
:)
>
Aapnar honest reaction-er jonyo dhonyobaad,

Iti,
Sharmila

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <3188B6...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

>> Actually, "boyoshko manush" factor-ta jodi baad diy-e den, dekben onek
>> problem kom-e jab-e.

SM> Baad diye debo? Aapni jodi nijey "boyoshko manush" hoten , tobey aamon
SM> kotha bolte parten?

Absolutely. Amar shontan-der bolbo "chor-e khao." Boyoshko
manush-era jodi tader motamot ebong idea na paltan (with time, that
is), tahole next generation-er boro problem hoye darai.

Think about going through life like driving a car through Chicago
downtown. You always have to adapt your driving to the speed changes
of other vehicles, constructions, psychos trying to run you over, etc.

Bottomline: you need to adapt yourself continuously to the environment
around you. Amader agekar juger boyoshko manush-era sheta thik pere
othen na.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Sharmila Mukherjee (s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:

: Snehasis Ganguly wrote:
: >
: > I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
: > girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether

: > they will be interested in working outside the home, which

: > the greed for money/survival needs/society-orientation in
: > America dictates.
: > Snehasis

: Aei baar ritimoton uthe dNarate hochche. Tar maane tumi bolte chaicho
: je science/engg. meyera arts-er meyeder thekey baire kaaj korte beshi
: utshahi? E rokom blatant generalization-er kono karon aache ki? Aar

Ami kono generalization korchi naa, ebong kono personal
opinion o raakhi ni, ami to observation thke bolchi|
BTW, I was talking about people's worries and concern...which
means they have doubts.. Whether they are suffering from
paranoia or greed, is not for me to comment.

I thought this was not obvious or not clearly put, so I
wrote it explicitly..

: "working outside"-er shongey "working inside"-er ki shomporko? Duto to

: completely different issue. Shoto 'outside' work-o 'inside' work rukhte
: pereche ki?
: Tomar aei kotha-r opor further aalokpater ashai,
: Sharmila

PS: It is possible to work from home also, you are correct here
and housework is probably as difficult as outside work.

Snehasis

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: >>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

: DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
: DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

: Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
: engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

: The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
: name for programmers.

: -Shubu
: --

This may be a buzzword, but this is not a one time
craze. The boom in this area marks a distinct change in
technological progression. You are
also using the word programmer in a derogatory sense. However
a lot of BS and MS Engineers do programming.
These Americans respect evryone's job, including a Janitor's.

Snehasis

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Shubu Mukherjee wrote:
>

> SM> Baad diye debo? Aapni jodi nijey "boyoshko manush" hoten , tobey aamon
> SM> kotha bolte parten?
>
> Absolutely. Amar shontan-der bolbo "chor-e khao." Boyoshko
> manush-era jodi tader motamot ebong idea na paltan (with time, that
> is), tahole next generation-er boro problem hoye darai.

Aapni nije ke diye shobai ke bichaar korben na. Aapni parle-o shobai
na-o partey pare, tai bole tader opor diye maaDiye jete hobe, aamon kono
kotha aache ki? Aar aapnar shontanera aapnakey ki bhabe paltate bolbe
tar kichu matro idea-o aakhon aapnar nei. Tokhon hoito dekhben je you
yourself, who is so much keen on the older generation changing to keep
up with the younger one, would find it very hard to do so, :). Just a
thought.

Sharmila

[Snehasis Ganguly]

sayan bhattacharyya (bhat...@heron.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
: Snehasis Ganguly <sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu> wrote:

: > I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
: > girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether
: > they will be interested in working outside the home,

: I don't get this. What does the motivation to work outside the home

: have to do with whether one is a science graduate or an arts graduate?

I thought this was really obvious. In the Bengali
middle class society, parents tend not to push their daughter
to science subjects if they beleive that her role will
be mainly restricted to home, which was the norm till sometimes
back.

: Secondly, I think the word "girl" as you and others are using in

Exactly till what age, a woman is called girl
and after when she becomes a girl?
If you can specifically answer this question,
and also throw light on what definition you will
use in your commune, I will be happy.

: this discussion is derogatory and disrespectful. You should have

!!! How? What about advertisements for
a boy in internet? And what about "A suitable Boy?"

: the courtesy to use the word "woman" instead. Unless, of course,

: you are advocating child marriage, in which case the word "girl"
: would have been appropriate. (The Bengali word "meye" means both
: "girl" and "woman", depending on the context, and in this context,
: since the discussion was about nubile females, clearly the sense

Once again the term nubile woman appeared to me more
derogatory than the use of the word girl.
Can you prove that the English word girl doesn't
include woman of all ages?

: of "woman" and not "girl" was intended.)

: -Sayan.

[saugata basu]

s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila Mukherjee) writes:
: saugata basu wrote:

: Eta aapni shei shob baba ma-der bojhan jara meyer biyer byabostha korte
: parchen na bole heart-er oshukhe bhugchen.

prothomoto apni bodh hoi subject line'ta paribartan na kore follow-up karar kaidata
jenenna. ota shikhe nin noile fibonaccir kharghoser moton threader sankhya barte
thakbe.

dwitioto, pashim banglar f/m ratio last census anujayi besh kam. 930/1000 moton
jotodur mone porche. tai biye habena eta samasya noi. hoito green card dhayi
iiww jutbena. tate je khub eta khati ney ta eder bojha uchit.

: > tar fale ar eto meyeder ar "arts" porte habena. sabai science ba engineering
: > pore computer program korte parbe. ar apnar chintao kambe.
:
:
: She ki? Shobai aamader majority SCB jonotader moto shob shomoi
: gurugombhir aalochona kore peter oshukhe bhugbe? Ki je bolen...

eta bujhlam na.

saugata.

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <4makav$n...@library.erc.clarkson.edu>, sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu (Snehasis Ganguly) writes:

SG> Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

SG> : >>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

SG> : DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
SG> : DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

SG> : Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
SG> : engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

SG> : The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
SG> : name for programmers.

SG> This may be a buzzword, but this is not a one time
SG> craze. The boom in this area marks a distinct change in
SG> technological progression. You are
SG> also using the word programmer in a derogatory sense. However
SG> a lot of BS and MS Engineers do programming.
SG> These Americans respect evryone's job, including a Janitor's.

I am not using anything in a derogatory sense. Depending on the area,
programming itself can be a heck of a challenge.

BUT, I like calling a spade a spade. I just laugh when I hear people
trying to glorify themselves by saying, "I am a software
professional!" What's wrong with being a software programmer? Now, I
don't think it is derogatory. Maybe the person who uses the phrase
"software professional" thinks the word programmer is derogatory!

-Shubu

PS: On the other hand, routine programming can be boring as well. I
have friends from Computer Science, who are tired of programming
jobs in the industry. Some of them are trying to get other
degrees.

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <3188D4...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

SM> Shubu Mukherjee wrote:

SM> Baad diye debo? Aapni jodi nijey "boyoshko manush" hoten , tobey aamon
SM> kotha bolte parten?

>> Absolutely. Amar shontan-der bolbo "chor-e khao." Boyoshko
>> manush-era jodi tader motamot ebong idea na paltan (with time, that
>> is), tahole next generation-er boro problem hoye darai.

SM> Aapni nije ke diye shobai ke bichaar korben na.

These are separate issues. You brought my personal life into this!

SM> Aapni parle-o shobai
SM> na-o partey pare, tai bole tader opor diye maaDiye jete hobe, aamon kono
SM> kotha aache ki?

Both yes and no. Its for the individual to decide. I have a close
Tamil friend, whose parents want to arrange his marriage, whereas he
is absolutely scared of arranged marriages. He actually wants to find
a woman by himself. His parents, however, will cut off all contacts
with him if they come to know that he even dates in the US.

Now how do you solve this problem? What would you do if you were the
parent here? Would you change for your kid? Or would you stick to
your age-old values and the stubborn society around you?

SM> Aar aapnar shontanera aapnakey ki bhabe paltate bolbe
SM> tar kichu matro idea-o aakhon aapnar nei. Tokhon hoito dekhben je you
SM> yourself, who is so much keen on the older generation changing to keep
SM> up with the younger one, would find it very hard to do so, :). Just a
SM> thought.

Who said life is easy? Life consists of a series of problems that you
solve one by one. There is never any equilibrium.

-Shubu

[Debjeet Pal]

Sharmila K. Mukherjee (s...@bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
: Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond

: korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....

: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer

Ki kando??!! Eto shotti chintaar bapar. Amaar porichito dui
chelay to bangla-ay B.A. pass meye, er Geography-te M.A. pass meye biye
koraychen. Chelera dujonayi England-a born and brought up. Aar amaar to
arts-er meyederi generally beshi bhalo laagay....... Kolkata-ay onek
science/engg.-er meye dekhechi, who express themselves as if they
definitely have something to prove. (e.g. "I have succeeded in getting into
Medicine/Computing/Engineering so I am superior to my fellow bandhobi's who
are studying arts) HyNa, aro ekjoner kotha bolay feli. Ekhanay ek daktar-er
bou art-s a graduate. Khub bhalo artist/painter, naam Millie Basu (maiden
surname ta monay aschay na). Millie-dir onek painting ekhanay kichu galary,
exhibition-a chance payachay. Ekta to exhibition theke churi-i hoye gelo!!
Or duti chobi "Menaakshi" o "Protiksha" kolkata-ay Metro-tay-o achay.......

Ami nijay computer scientist hoye ei "jhot-pot du-chaartay language shikhay
fele chakri peye jaye" dhoroner kotha-batra shuntay/portay besh odhbhooth
feel kori.

Computer Science is a young,in-depth, and a fascinating science and has
much much more to do than learning Word/C++/Visual Basic etc.........

It is a revolution in its own class which has influenced us, in the last
20-30 years, in a way that nothing has ever done before.

Ja hok, "Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
na? " er uttoray ami bolbo "oboshoi jutobay".

Debjeet.

[Debjeet Pal]

Sharmila Mukherjee (s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:

: Snehasis Ganguly wrote:
: >
: > I would add that the main reason people are worried about arts
: > girls is not whether they can learn programming but whether

: > they will be interested in working outside the home, which
: > the greed for money/survival needs/society-orientation in
: > America dictates.
: > Snehasis

: Aei baar ritimoton uthe dNarate hochche. Tar maane tumi bolte chaicho
: je science/engg. meyera arts-er meyeder thekey baire kaaj korte beshi
: utshahi? E rokom blatant generalization-er kono karon aache ki? Aar

: "working outside"-er shongey "working inside"-er ki shomporko? Duto to
: completely different issue. Shoto 'outside' work-o 'inside' work rukhte
: pereche ki?
: Tomar aei kotha-r opor further aalokpater ashai,
: Sharmila

Ami to kichui bujjhi na...... Amaar onno post-a jay B.A. pass meye-tir
kotha likhechi, shay to ekhon ekhanay ek school-a porachchay. Arts-er meye
er bairay kaajer ki relation? tara to school, college, uni tay poratay
paray, boi likhtay paraay, chobi aNaktay paraay, echara onek rokom bairer
kaaj-i kortay paaray. Is journalism a science or art?

Science/Eng recruitments can easily be more flashy and more rewarding
than clerical/secreterial jobs. Job satisfaction is another factor.

Debjeet.

[John Vaillancourt]

Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: >>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

: DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth

: DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

: Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software

: engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

: The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
: name for programmers.

Tofat-ta kothay keu ektu bujhiye deben? Programming-e ami akebare
zero. Software engineering-e dhNu mere dekha jete pare.

Indranil.

[Debarag Banerjee]

Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> wrote:
[...]

>boktobbyo holo je jNara shombondho kore biye korte jaachchen, she je
>karonei hok, tNader selection criteria-r opor. Please note that here I
>am not trying to dictate as to what you ought and ought not to do. I am
>merely ponting out the trend. Shekhaane-i aami dekhchi je jNara arts-er
>meye biye korte chaichen na due to my previously mentioned reasons,
>tNader modhye onekei aachen jNara college-e pora kalin shudhu Arts
>lobby-te-i ghora fera korten. Biyer byapaare eshe tokhon tNara
>discrimination shuru korlen. Aei trend-ta aaro joralo aei deshe, tai
>aamar SCB-te lekha.

Interesting observation! Apnar ei "phenomenon"-ta sambandhe amar jadiyo
kono personal experience thakte pare na, karon ami ba amar stri keu-i
"arts"-er major noi ebong amra "sambandha" kore-o biye korini. Tobuo,
ekta prosno kori: Is the converse true? Mane oi "sambondho" kore biye-r
byapare chhele-der biruddhe ki academic major niye konorakom discrimination
hay? Amar jatadur mone pare newsgroup-ei koyek-ta matrimonial posted hay
"daktar/ engineer patra chai" gochher, tai nay ki? Tar karon ki hote pare?

Just curious

-----------------------------------------
Debarag Banerjee
bane...@bme.utmem.edu

[Apratim Sarkar]

dgu...@buphy.bu.edu (John Vaillancourt) writes:
>Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

>: Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>: engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>

>Tofat-ta kothay keu ektu bujhiye deben? Programming-e ami akebare
>zero. Software engineering-e dhNu mere dekha jete pare.

E'i Fall'e BU'te SWEng.'r Grad. course'ta nao na? Ami nite pari ...

>Indranil.

Apratim.

--
Ghash parjanta durbodhya! mati Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
rahashyamaya; are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Etota rahashya bhalo noi. any way to represent that of my employer.
- Amiyo Chakrabarty.

[Dasgupta]

Sharmila:

Dukhkhito, aagey ei tophath-ta nojor eDiye gechchilo.

Ami kokhono kono negotiation dekhini. Byaparta ojana. Amar bondhura
to shobai nije pochchondo korey biye korechchey. Atmiyo-shojonder
khetre ami ongshogrohon korini negotiation-er byapare.

Tothyer bhittitey jodi apnar katha shotyo hoye thakey, tahole ami
mone kori eta khub-i chintar bishoy. Amar shoho-byatha janai.

Shoumyo.

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Debarag Banerjee wrote:

> [...]

> Interesting observation! Apnar ei "phenomenon"-ta sambandhe amar jadiyo
> kono personal experience thakte pare na, karon ami ba amar stri keu-i
> "arts"-er major noi ebong amra "sambandha" kore-o biye korini. Tobuo,
> ekta prosno kori: Is the converse true? Mane oi "sambondho" kore biye-r
> byapare chhele-der biruddhe ki academic major niye konorakom discrimination
> hay? Amar jatadur mone pare newsgroup-ei koyek-ta matrimonial posted hay
> "daktar/ engineer patra chai" gochher, tai nay ki? Tar karon ki hote pare?
>
> Just curious
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Debarag Banerjee
> bane...@bme.utmem.edu

Nishchoi discrimination hoi, jar meye joto upojukto, she toto/tar
thekey beshi upojukto patro khNoje. Tobey tar karon ki hotey pare tai
niye jodi aapni aalochona korte chan, tobey akta thread shuru korun na?
Aami ayakta jinish kichutei bujhte parchi na je aamar aei post-er palta
jobab-e onek-e aei cheleder proti discrimination-er kotha tulchen. Aamar
kotha hochche, sheta to aykta aalada issue/thread hishebe aalochona kora
jete pare, na ki pare na? Noile eta onek ta sherokom hoye dNarai na ki
je " pNuti, jama chirecho kano?" " Ma, bhombol-o to chireche!" Tate
laabh?

Iti confused,

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Shubu Mukherjee wrote:

>
> SM> Aapni nije ke diye shobai ke bichaar korben na.
>
> These are separate issues. You brought my personal life into this!

Yes I did and I am sorry about it, if you disliked it. My apologies.
Peace? :)

I have a close
> Tamil friend, whose parents want to arrange his marriage, whereas he
> is absolutely scared of arranged marriages. He actually wants to find
> a woman by himself. His parents, however, will cut off all contacts
> with him if they come to know that he even dates in the US.
>
> Now how do you solve this problem? What would you do if you were the
> parent here? Would you change for your kid? Or would you stick to
> your age-old values and the stubborn society around you?

I know I know; it is a real problem and no matter how much people may
deny it, there is and will always be a generation gap, mainly in
communication. But I am trying to put myself in our parents shoes for a
moment nad think how they must be finding all this. I mean how easy is
it to be told that what you have believed in for the last 50 odd years
is no more valid, I bet, not easy at all. It must be very unnerving and
does nothing for their morale, I guess.

> -Shubu
> --
>
> Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

Debjeet Pal wrote:

> Ki kando??!! Eto shotti chintaar bapar. Amaar porichito dui
> chelay to bangla-ay B.A. pass meye, er Geography-te M.A. pass meye biye
> koraychen. Chelera dujonayi England-a born and brought up.

Good job! Three cheers for them! Tobey biye ta arranged chilo to?

Aar amaar to
> arts-er meyederi generally beshi bhalo laagay

Aaro shukhobor!!
[...]

>
> Ami nijay computer scientist hoye ei "jhot-pot du-chaartay language shikhay
> fele chakri peye jaye" dhoroner kotha-batra shuntay/portay besh odhbhooth
> feel kori.

E kotha ta je shotti, sheta aei net-ei onek-e shikaar korechen, :)
>

> Ja hok, "Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
> na? " er uttoray ami bolbo "oboshoi jutobay".
>
> Debjeet.

Khub bhalo kotha, er thekey beshi shukhobor aar ki hotey pare, :)

Sharmila

[Sharmila Mukherjee]

saugata basu wrote:

>
> prothomoto apni bodh hoi subject line'ta paribartan na kore follow-up karar kaidata
> jenenna. ota shikhe nin noile fibonaccir kharghoser moton threader sankhya barte
> thakbe.

Thik ki bolchen bujhte parlaam na. Aapnader jaatey shomoi bNache, tai
jar lekhar opor uttor-ta dichchi, tar naam-ta rekhe dichchi, jate taakey
onyo post pore shomoi noshto na kortey hoi. Aapni jodi onyo kichu mean
korte chaichilen ta hole oboshyo aami jani na.

>
> dwitioto, pashim banglar f/m ratio last census anujayi besh kam. 930/1000 moton
> jotodur mone porche. tai biye habena eta samasya noi. hoito green card dhayi
> iiww jutbena. tate je khub eta khati ney ta eder bojha uchit.

Aei "eder" bolte aapni kader kotha bolchen ektu bolben ki?

> : She ki? Shobai aamader majority SCB jonotader moto shob shomoi
> : gurugombhir aalochona kore peter oshukhe bhugbe? Ki je bolen...
>
> eta bujhlam na.
>
> saugata.

Ota kichu na, ektu koutuk korar khudro procheshta..:)

Sharmila

[Sambit Basu]

Dasgupta <TXD...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:

>Amar ekjon priyo nettor-er didi, amar bondhu, IIT-r ekjon chomothkar chcheler
> shongey prem korey ekhon besh aachchey. Shey to Philosophy Honours poDto.
> Kobey thekey hothath eishob bodley Science-er meyeder chahida baDlo ?

Ye, maane, ami jaar kotha bhabchhi tumi jodi taar kotha-i
bole thaako, ta'le kintu oi ye kora-ta Phil. (Hons.)-er
aager jug-er case. Buddhimaan chhele-ra ebong Tata Football
Academy "catch them young" probochone bishwash koren.

Regards,
Sambit

[Debashis Bhattacharya]

Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> wrote:
>saugata basu wrote:
>>
>> biye je kortei habe ta ke boleche ?
>
> Keu bole ni.
>
> na korlei to holo. jana sankhya kambe.

Minor quibble: biye aar jana sankhyar samporko-ta e-jug-e baRo kheen (ksheen)!

>
> Eta aapni shei shob baba ma-der bojhan jara meyer biyer byabostha korte
>parchen na bole heart-er oshukhe bhugchen.
>

aamar bon-er ekhono biye hoi ni bole aami-o dukhyo pai, kintu heart-er osukhe
bhugi na. biye, sansar, etc., "sadharon" byapar gulor-o proyojon achhe,
amar mone hoi.

.. deleted ...

>Regards,
>
> Sharmila

Debashis.

[Sambit Basu]

s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:

> Eta ektu barabari hoye jaachche naki? Etao problem shotti, kintu
>aamader deshe aakhono obibahito konya obibahito putre-r thekey beshi
>jontronadayok. Uporokto opogun(?) thaka-te jodi cheler biye na hoi, tobe
>baba ma bolben, jaa re, chore kha. Kintu aajker shomaaj byabosthai she
>rokom kotha konya ke bolte paren kojon baba ma?

O, apni baba-ma-der niye chintito sheta bujhte paarini.

Ta'le thik aachhe - amar kono boktobyo nei.

Ebar, apni oi hotobhaga chhelegulo-ke niye kichhu bolun.
Apnar jonne notun thread toiri kore dilum.

Regards,
Sambit

[S Bhattacharyya]

psa...@iastate.edu (Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar) writes:

>In article <4m8dhc$n...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukherjee) writes:
>|> Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar (psa...@iastate.edu) wrote:
>|>
>|> : Ki mushkil !!! jodi kono gun-i na thake tahole ki kore cholbe ?

[[[[[[[[[[[[..................]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

>bivinno meye-r preme habudubu kheyechhe/khachchhe, kintu gato ek bachhor-e matro
>1 jon-i successful hoyechhe, ar ekta case ekhono jhule achhe ... baki sab
>daha fail :-(

>|> : Chupi chupi bole rakhi : generally
>|> : "nice guy" -der pakrao kora soja.
>|>

Eta kintu Pradipta Babu'r bhool dharona. "Nice guy" ra
chirajibaan hisheb kora life lead korechhe. Ora thanda maathay bhebe
chinte jeeban er prateeti padakhyep felechhe, jaate kore tara taRaRi
jeeben er ekta designated position e eshe daRate pare. Era ata sahaje
patbar public noye. Barang amra, jara shara jeeban baundule pana kore,
ekhon buRo boyeshe, chule kalap diye graduate school e eshe
dhukhechhi, tara meye dekhleyi ekhono le-le kore teDe jai! shara
jeeban nak jhamta kheyo keno je sheekkha hoye na, ke jane ? ...

Santanu

>|>
>|> Ektu funda-ta din na, deshe mass-scale-e chithi chari.
>|>

> E ar ami ki bolbo. Apnar bandhobi-der jigges korun; tader modhye nishchoy

>emon kono ostad peye jaben je bhalo funda dite parbe ... Tobe in general
>kichhu strategy to kaj korei thake. Jemon dhorun theatre, Nandan
>ba kono cinema hall -e bhalo movie dekhte jabar amontron janano, ba kono
>restaurent ityadi ar ki ... Bangali meyeder abar aro ekta advantage achhe -
>esab khetre tader poisa-r chintao korte hoy na, generally chhelerai seta
>deye. Sutorang nothing to lose, hole holo na hole ektu furti kora gelo
>onner poisai :-)

> Tobe sab theke bhalo upai holo GRE TOEFL diye kono rakom-e jekono American

>University -te jekono stream-e (ta se History, Pol Sc., Fashion Technology
>jai hok na keno ... ) MA korte chole asa. Edeshe Bangali chhele
>meye-r distribution-ta jerakom skewed, onno ek netter -er bhashaye
>"ekebar-e dekhe mukh firiye nebar mato na hole" chance is very high that she
>will be able to find a nice guy. Sekhetre computer jana na-jana, Science
>bojha na-bojha kono samosya-i na. Bola jai na bhagya bhalo thakle
>handsome American citizen-o jute jete pare :-) Jodio ekta bhoy thekei jai
>je kono din sakale uthe se hoito bole boslo "Sweetie, I don't feel love
>for you anymore". Tobe erakam je hobei tar to kono katha nei. Let's hope for the
>best.

>|>
>|> : Amar ki mone hoy janen? Eder abostha sei sab chheleder mato - jara
>|> : lekhaporai khub sadharon, Engg./Med. entrance -e batil, kono janoganer
>|> : college-e B.Com ba B.Sc. Pass course niye pora, babar business -o nei,
>|> : baper temon poisa-o nei je ghush diye bhalo chakri jutiye debe, abar nijer
>|> : kobjir jor-o nei je mastani/gundami/rajniti korbe, tai kono chhotokhato
>|> : office-e chhotokhato chakri kore, ..... sejonno dirghodiner premika hothat
>|> : kono daktar/MBA ba US basi computer professional -er sathe biyer offer
>|> : peye jhot kore take bhule champot diyechhe. Eder katha kakhono
>|> : bhebechhen ki ?
>|>
>|>
>|> Bhabi ni ki aar! She to ulto khetre-o projojyo, maane ja niye
>|> aami bolchilaam aar ki! Kintu tai bole aakta problem-er shaamne
>|> aarekta problem-ke dNaar koriye dile kichu laabh hoi ki? Konotar-ee
>|> to shomadhan hoi na.
>|>

> Na na ami ekta problem er samne ar ekta problem d(n)aar koriye dichchhi
>na. Ami boli ki duto problem -er samadhan ek sathe holei bhalo hoy na ki?
>Dekhun Sharmila (***, please use the suffix of your choice; SCB -te debi, manobi
>thread-er por ami bhishon confused, kake ki bole sambodhon korbo, - didi,debi,
>manobi na shudhu nam dhore ... ) , amar mone hoy ki je eisab samosyar jonno

>chheleder theke meyerai beshi dayi - antato amra ei SCB -r beshir bhag netter
>to middle class Bangali family theke esechhe, ei middle class family gulote
>meyera mukhe baro baro katha bole kintu kajer belay kissu na. Bangali
>professional chhelera to tao kichhu Arts pora meye-ke biye kore. Kintu
>ulto-ta kota dekhechhen bolun dekhi ? Engg./Med. pora meyera hoito
>kakhono kono Arts pora prem kore thakte pare. Kintu kajer belay
>sei nyaka nyaka "amar hat dhore tumi niye chalo sakha ami je path chini ne"
>type -er gan gaite ar ager bhalobasha bhule tathakothito "supatrer" sathe
>biye kore chompot dite ostad. Jedin
>Bangali Engg./Computer professional/Science graduate or whatever ...
>meyera sahos kore B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course chheleder biye korte
>parbe - bhalobeshe, chape pore noi, sedin-i ei samosyar samadhan hote pare.

>Otherwise hobe na, apni ami jatoi chinta kori na keno.

>|> : |> Iti chintito,
>|> : |> Sharmila
>|> : |>
>|>
>|> : Ato chinta kore shudhu shudhu nijer time/energy kharoch korben na.
>|> : "Chintamoyi" -i sakol chinta korchhen, sakol -i t(n)ahar -i ichachha,
>|> : amra sabai nimitto matro :-)
>|> : Shubhechhante
>|> : Pradipta.
>|> :
>|> Aare bangali ke chinta korte baron korchen? Tahole bNaachbo ki
>|> kore? Aar Chintamoyi thaakle-o kaaj to nimitto-der diyei hobe, ki
>|> bolen? Aar aei aamar lekha pore aakjon bachelor-er-o jodi ektu
>|> chaitonyo hoi, tobei aami nijekey dhonnyo mone korbo, :)
>|>
>|>
>|> Aapnake-o shubhechcha,
>|> Sharmila

> Amio nijeke dhonno mone korbo, jodi middle class Bangali meyera
>oisab B.Com/B.A./B.Sc. Pass course, kobji o takar jor bihin sadashidhe
>sarol moti chheleder pashe d(n)ariye tader dike sahajjer hat bariye deye
>tahole. Jani na kota Bangali meyer serakom sahos ba ichchhe achhe?
>

> Anek dhanyabad o shubhechchha-saha
> Pradipta.
>
> "Sakol-i tomar-i ichchha, ichchha moyi tara tumi ....."

>--
>Pradipta Sarkar
>psa...@iastate.edu

[Indrani DasGupta]

Sharmila Mukherjee writes:
>
>Indrani DasGupta wrote:
>
>> Apni 'Arts'-er jaygay 'ujjol shyamborna-orophe kaalo' ityaadi boshiye
>> din. Shob-i ak. Shombondho kore biye maane-i discrimination. Sheta hoy
>> biye-r aage noy pore hoye thhake. Tokhon language bolte
shoshur-shaashuri
>> othoba 'bor'-ke 'tushto' korbaar buli chhaDa aar kichchhu shikhe ba
aauDe
>> laabh nei.
>>
>> Indrani.
>
>Indrani, lets not be closed-minded here. Arranged marriage is still here
>and I am not yet convinced that it is not useful anymore.

'Useful' kano hobena...shey to hajaar aaje baaje shamaajik byabosthha-ro
'use' aachhe. Kintu apni bodhoy bhebechhen je ami 'arranged marriage'
ta-ke dhuchchhi. Ta thhik noi. Ami bolte chaichhilaam je oi apni
'discrimination' jeta-ke bolchhen - sheta e khetre ektu beshi hoy. Kaaron
ei dhoroner biye-te shwaami-stree-r modhye 'understanding' ta ektu kom
thaake ba deri-te aashe, aar oi jonnei meyeder shojjher sheema-ta-ke
oshyabhaabik rokom baaDiye phelte hoy (aachha thhik aachhe - chheleder-o
:-)). Ta, ei dhoroner biye-ta je ekta 'chukti' eta to shwikaar korchhen?
Ta'le-i to apni jegulo-ke onodhikaar daabi bolchhen (maane - science
poDte hobe, chaakri koraar moto elem thaakte hobe, ami bollam - phorsha
hote hobe, lombaa hote hobe, Indranilbabu bollen - shundori hote hobe)
shegulo to ta'le besh juktishommoto? Kaaje-i, Art-er meye-ra ekta bishoy
fail korle-o (dhorun apnar porikkha-gulo-te) onyanno bishoy-gulo-te hoyto
mere-kete paash (dhorun amaar-gulo) hoye gelo. Ta'le distinction na
pele-o haat-e degree. Eta-i bolchhilaam. Apni to desh-er shombondho kore
biye-r kotha-i bolchhen, tai na? Maane edeshe-i dujon-e thhaake, er'om to
aar na?

>Aamar
>charidik-e aami aamon onek-ke dekhte pai, from both sexes, jNara
>bhodrolok, ruchishommoto; ayk-kothai eligible, kintu nijey pochondo kore
>biye korte parchen na. E deshe tar aykta main karon holo je bangali
>cheleder tulonai meye kom. Tai cheshta kore-o kichu korte parchen na
>dekhe onek-e badhyo hoye deshe giye arranged marriage kore aashchen.

Ekhane ekta kotha boli - edesh-e kintu 'Arts-er meye' der amader desher
chaaite onek beshi opportunities aachhe. Oboshyo jNaara 'bhNaatiye' paash
korechhen tNaader shuraha howa-ta bodhoy dui-deshei shokto. Arekta
jinish, khaat-te shobai-kei hoy. Service industry-ta ekhon edeshe
shobcheye boDo. Ami dui-ekti mohila-ke chini jNaara desh thheke English-e
MA kore eshchhen kintu ekhane eshe moner moto chaakri paachhen na. Pele-o
sheta hoyto secretarial kaaj. Ektu-adhtu Programming janle hoyto arektu
uNchu-te dhoka jete paare...kintu poisha kori emon kichhu ekta beshi hoy
bole mon-e hoyna. Aar fundamental byapaar-ta to oi, tai na? Maane ke
two-earner family income baDate beshi potu - science-wali na arts-wali?

>Deshe-o dekhechi,jNara kokata/delhi-r baire kaaj koren, tNara-o tamon
>bangali meye-r shannyidhye aashen na, ogottya kolkatai fire arranged
>marriage. Aakhon aapni jodi bolen je bangali meye-i biye korte hobe
>aamon matha-r dibyie ke diyeche, tobe kichu bolar nei.

hNya...shey to thhik-i. Kintu amaar mon-e hoy bangali chheleder
'fantasy-r patri' obangali meye-ra hoye thhakle-o, chhadnatolay beshi-r
bhaag bangali chhele-i 'kaajol-kaalo chokh' khNojen. :-) And vice-versa.

> Aami shudhu shona
>kotha bolchi. Shutoraang aamar kotha holo when arranged marriage is here
>to stay for some time, lets make the best out of it.

Amaar apnake jiggashyo holo ei: (maane ami ekjon 'Art's-er meye hishebe-i
bolchhi - shwikaar-i kore phellaam byapaarta - ekhon bodhoy amaar aar
biye-phiye hobena! ;-))

Aar eta amaader desh hisheb-ei bolchhi:

1) Biye jinish-ta ki (na ichchhe korle-o) kortei hobe? Maane ma-baba-r
hRidrog/loker kotha shona chhaDa - biye-tai je amaader desher meyeder (ba
chheleder) ekmatro goti ei dhoroner shomaaj byabostha ba maanoshikota-ta
ektu-o ki bodlayni ba bodlaabar lokkhhon dekhchhen na?

2) Apnar janashona bibaahojoggo/bibahojogga chhele-meyeder modhye ki keu
shotyi-shotyi-i bhaabe je science poDa-tai 'intelligent/logical
conversation' er ekta prerequisite? Ta'le to logic aar philosophy-r
ontorbhukto hote paarlona. Philosophy-ta to shune eshechhi ekta 'Arts'
subject. Apnar ei obhigyota-ta (oi je chhele-tir kotha bolechhen) kintu
amaaye shotyi bhabaachhe...kaaron eta to akta bhalo rokomer-i
discrimination. Aar e dhoroner monobhaab-ta amon subjective je eta-ke
shohoj-e (maane 'logic' diye) baage aana oshombhob.

3) Indranilbabu-r kotha-ta shunte kharaap laage thhik-i(oi mishti-mukh-er
byapaar-e) kintu kothata ek hishebe dhrubo shotyo. Ebong eta chhele-der
khetre-o chole. Maane adonis jaatiyo chhele-der dor beshi, shey daktaar-i
hok aar journalist-i hok. Shob kichhu-i jNeche mepe biye kora-tai holo
shombondho kore biye...oi jonnoi e dhoroner byapaar-er jonno prostut
thaka uchit, shey biye-r aage-i hok aar por-ei hok.

> Aar shoshur-shashurir kotha aar nai ba tullen. Aajkaal khub kom
meye-i
>aamon aachen jNara barite kurukkhetro koren na, jodi mone koren je poti
>debota tNar shoshur-shashuri-ke(maane meyer baba ma-ke) upojukto
>importance/morjada dichchen na, :)

Amaar to mon-e hoy khub kom 'potidebota'-i aachhen jNaader tNaader
shoshur-shaashuri-der shaathe dinadin-i theke maaniye cholte hoy. Kaajei
shey khetre morjada deoya-na-deoya-ta onno byapaar. Kaaror-i onner
kaachhe baba-ma-r 'gunogaan' shunte bhalo laagena. Aar shombondho kore
biye-te ei dhoroner 'khNocha-tocha' ektu beshi deoya hoye thhaake - eta-o
oi understanding-er byapaar. Tobe apni thhik-i bolechhen, ami ektu
out-of-topic chole gechhilaam. Shey jonne du:khito.

>Sharmila

Indrani.

[Apratim Sarkar]

Prothomei, e'i kalopojogi alochana'ti shuru kara'r janye Sharmiladebi'ke
dhanyabad janai. Arts'r meye'ra fyalna kina e proshno amar mathai konodin
asheni karon amar gushtisudhdhu Arts'r. Ami'i ekmatro Engineering poRechhi,
amar baba'r mate jeta kina vocational training orofe brityishikkha. Nijeke
Higher Sceondary pass bolei chirodin dhore eshechhi, baRi'te kono ekta
discussion hole chirodin, "Tui graduate obdhi nosh, tui ki bujhish?" e to
chirodin shune ebang mene elam.

Ta jai hok. Arts'r meyeder fyalna bala hochchhe naki? Biyete tader against'e
discriminate kara hochchhe? Biyer byapar'e discriminate kara uchit kina
eta govir proshno. Indiscriminately tin bachhar'e tinte prem kara'r jonyo
ek kale lok'r anek katha shunechhi. Kintu byapar'ta amar kharap lageni.
Besh jamati. Indiscriminately biye kara'ta'o perhaps omon jamati'i habe.

Ebang shekhetre Arts'r meye apochhando habar kono karon to ami dekhi na.
In fact, amar Jodu'r kichhu purono bondhu Science/Engg. faculty katiye
Arts'ei prem korte jeto. Tader mote, eke sample space anek baRo tai
"meye tola"'r expected value of anek beshi. Also, serious compeitition
kam, supply-demand'r khela'i. In fact, shudhu Jodu keno, IITKGP'r kichhu
janatao eki line'e chhilo bole mone paRe. Antoto dujan shonibar bhor rattire
train dhore Kolkata eshe shara weekend prem kore abar Robbar fire jeto.
Both of them are happily married now. To Arts'r meye, both of them. Antoto
ekjan'r bou parama shundari, arekjon'o definitely A-'r kam noi.

Tabe ki IDG'i thik!?

Tabe, bou chakri kara'r ekta distinct advantage achhe, nijer chakri na korleo
chale. Amar shei shukh'r din jato egiye ashchhe amiyo ahlade dagomago korchhi.
Personal experience'e, khub'i enjoyable jiban. After all, puro ekta generation
Bangali'ra o'i kore ar chandimandap'e adda diye jiban katiye gelen. Gola'r
chaal, bou'r ranna, ar ki chai? Ekhon gola'te chaal na thakle bou'r chakri
sheta substitute korte pare. (Anek'e ego problem'e bhoge, bale gala diye o bhat
naambe na. Ekta beshi sheddho kore nilei she problem mite jai.)

Sutarang, chakri'ta'o important. E'i ager je dujan'r katha bollam ekjan
MBA ekhon, prochur maine (mash'e lakh, shuni) arekjan nijer dyash'e fire
gechhe, multinational'e dollar kamai. Kintu shabar to she bhagyo hoi na.
Amar moto anekei achhen jara bou'r rojgar'r mukh cheye boshe achhen,
amar dharona.

In fact, gorib du:khi byachara chheleder shankhya'o kam noi jara kina
ektu alash, ektu ayeshi, arampriyo. BaRite thakte noRe ghash khai ni konodin,
ekhon nijer ranna khachchhe. E'i amari moto. Tader abashyo shabtheke suit
kare grihakarmanipuna potibatsal bou. E'i ager type'r chhele'ra in general
ektu beshi bhabuk prokiti'r hoi, baje bokte ektu beshi bhalobashe, Ethiopian
sahityo ki Timbuktu'r economy niye. Tader baRite khub shundar ekta division
of responsibilities hoye jai - international ja kichhu decision neowa'r,
jemon Russia'te communist'ra ashbe kina ki Akira baRo na Satyajit - e shab
chhele'rai kare, ar rojkar shongshar cholbe kibhabe, taka'r hisheb, baba-ma'r
dekhashuno, chhele-meye'r paRashuno, SCB'te dhap khaowa shwami'r ego problem
shamlano, e shab bou'r. Mash maine ene bou'r hate diye dilei holo, tarpar
chinta bhabna'r shomoi to poRe achhe.

Amar dharona, e'i tritiyo school'r lokera'i finally shabcheye anonde thake.
Emon ekti meye jodi pan, bondhugan, chhaRben na. Chirokal shukhe thakben.
Ebang, e jati'r meyeder kono Arts/Science/Engineering division hoi na,
e shab bhalo meyeder kalo chul dekhte, sharbada'i, vaari beautiful.

[Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar]

In article <4mbdbu$4...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, san...@glibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (S Bhattacharyya) writes:
|> psa...@iastate.edu (Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar) writes:
|>
|>
|> >|> : Chupi chupi bole rakhi : generally
|> >|> : "nice guy" -der pakrao kora soja.
|> >|>
|>
|> Eta kintu Pradipta Babu'r bhool dharona. "Nice guy" ra
|> chirajibaan hisheb kora life lead korechhe. Ora thanda maathay bhebe
|> chinte jeeban er prateeti padakhyep felechhe, jaate kore tara taRaRi
|> jeeben er ekta designated position e eshe daRate pare. Era ata sahaje
|> patbar public noye.

Na ora moteo "nice guy" noi, ora "sheyana public", ei dharoner
public -der katha ami bolchhi na moteo. Of course apnar definition of
"nice guy" amar definition -er theke alada hote pare. E niye amar ek
roommate-er sathe pray-i tarko hoy. "Nice guy" bolte ami basically
bhalo manush bujhiyechhi, KEBOLMATRO taka poisa sachetan business minded
person bojhai ni.

|> Barang amra, jara shara jeeban baundule pana kore,
|> ekhon buRo boyeshe, chule kalap diye graduate school e eshe
|> dhukhechhi, tara meye dekhleyi ekhono le-le kore teDe jai! shara

Ei re kelo korechhe !!! E sab ki likhchhen, sotti naki :-)

|> jeeban nak jhamta kheyo keno je sheekkha hoye na, ke jane ? ...
|>
|> Santanu
|>

--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: >>>>> In article <4makav$n...@library.erc.clarkson.edu>, sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu (Snehasis Ganguly) writes:

: SG> Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: SG> : >>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

: SG> : DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
: SG> : DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

: SG> : Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
: SG> : engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

: SG> : The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
: SG> : name for programmers.

: SG> This may be a buzzword, but this is not a one time
: SG> craze. The boom in this area marks a distinct change in
: SG> technological progression. You are
: SG> also using the word programmer in a derogatory sense. However
: SG> a lot of BS and MS Engineers do programming.
: SG> These Americans respect evryone's job, including a Janitor's.

: I am not using anything in a derogatory sense. Depending on the area,
: programming itself can be a heck of a challenge.

: BUT, I like calling a spade a spade. I just laugh when I hear people
: trying to glorify themselves by saying, "I am a software
: professional!" What's wrong with being a software programmer? Now, I
: don't think it is derogatory. Maybe the person who uses the phrase
: "software professional" thinks the word programmer is derogatory!

: -Shubu

: PS: On the other hand, routine programming can be boring as well. I
: have friends from Computer Science, who are tired of programming
: jobs in the industry. Some of them are trying to get other
: degrees.

: --

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences

--

So much for boredom in jobs shubu, even a PhD in Comp science
can get bored, so would a Doctor or a pilot.

Snehasis

[Rajiv Shukla]

In article <SHUBU.96M...@providence.cs.wisc.edu> sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) writes:
>
>
>>> Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software

>>> engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>>>

>>> The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified

>>> name for programmers.
>
>R> In case you didn't know, *programming* is also a well-established area
>R> in computer science.
>
>Now what makes you think that? :-)
>
>You can't name a single department in the US that lists programming as
>one of its main areas!
>
>-Shubu
>--

There is no need because almost all areas involve programming in general.
And if you are talking about *design of programming languages*, then there
are a plenty of schools in U.S and Europe who are pretty well known.
Also what made you think that something has to be a main area in school
curriculum to be a major area in computer science? There are companies and
research organisations who also contribute to the advancement of computer
science and technology directly and indirectly, if you are not convinced
then why don't you ask them whether programming is a major area or not.

Rajiv

>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
>
>

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[D.Ray]

sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu (Snehasis Ganguly) wrote:
[ deleted..]
>
> Karon kichu nei.. tobey ami ekta implicit kotha
> bolchi..loke bhabey eiy sob subject etey "bhatona"
> jai, maney brain na use kore chaliye dewaa jai aar ki|
> Amader India te to tai hoey..edeshe hoena..
> Ekhaney arts subject eteo bhaloi khatuni..bhatiye
> berona mushkil
> Snehasis

Eta kintu thik kotha bolechen Snehasis. (Ami 'babu' use kori na, kichu
mone korlen na to ? ) Loker ekta bhool dharona ache je arts pora
mane holo mukhosto bidder porikhkha. Kintu, e dese seta onektai alada.
Ekhane ritimoto paper lekha, gobeshona kora, literature survey kora,
critique kora, etc onek kichui korte hoi. Eta sudhu arts noi, engineering
science school e jara amader moddhhe, Jadavpur/Calcutta Univ (ami JU'r)
proshno-pottore ovvosto, tader ektu bhebe bolte hobe, kotota problem-solving
type proshno thake compared to 'define this' othoba 'explain this' type.
Mone hoi, sedik theke IIT te onekta problem-solving type er proshno deoa
hoi, which is what it should be. Engineer hoye jodi problem solve korte
na parlam, tahole lav ta ki ? (Ei byapare jodi ektu IIT'r keu
kichu bolen to bhalo hoi). Abar, sudhu engineering keno, ekdom
school thekei dekhun na..Ekhane kintu porashona'r khetre onektai stress
deoa hoi, nijosso chinta bhabnar opore, matha khatiye solution ber korar
opore...

Ei je 'mukhosto-bidda'r dour er porikhkha, eta ki sudhu Kolkata/Jadavpur
bishwa bidyaloy tei ki hoi ? Probasi bengali jara Delhi/Bombay te porashona
korechen, tara tader oviggota theke ki bolen ?

Debapriya.

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <318912...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:

>> Now how do you solve this problem? What would you do if you were the
>> parent here? Would you change for your kid? Or would you stick to
>> your age-old values and the stubborn society around you?

SM> I know I know; it is a real problem and no matter how much people may
SM> deny it, there is and will always be a generation gap, mainly in
SM> communication. But I am trying to put myself in our parents shoes for a
SM> moment nad think how they must be finding all this. I mean how easy is
SM> it to be told that what you have believed in for the last 50 odd years
SM> is no more valid, I bet, not easy at all. It must be very unnerving and
SM> does nothing for their morale, I guess.

As Seshan said, there are two kinds of values -- absolute and relative
(in the time frame we will live). Honesty, punctuality are examples
of absolute values. Relative values are those related to religion,
abortion, etc. Relative values change with time. Absolute values are
relatively stable and span across generations.

It is with respect to relative values that most conflicts arise
between generations. The problem arises when the older generation
treats their relative values as absolute. If you treat relative
values as relative, then you wouldn't be afraid to change.

-Shubu

--

[D.Ray]

sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) wrote:
>
>>> Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>>> engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>>>
>>> The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
>>> name for programmers.
>
>R> In case you didn't know, *programming* is also a well-established area
>R> in computer science.
>
>Now what makes you think that? :-)
>
>You can't name a single department in the US that lists programming as
>one of its main areas!
>
>-Shubu

Okay dudes, what _is_ the difference between software engineering and
programming ? :-)

My take on it is, software engineering consists of a set of formalisms
and guidelines which makes programming more of a 'science' than an 'art' !!
Now, that may stir a hornet's nest ? :-)

Bhalo programming korte gele, je dhoroner design/analysis/coding dorkar
hoi, seta to software engineering er khetreo proyojonio, thik kina ? Software
engineering (IMO) er songe programming er tofat holo je software engg
e design/analysis/coding/testing/support ei sob subject guli ke cover kore, ar
programming is just programming, code likhe jao, mechanically, ja usually
kormokhetre Dilbert'er boss mone kore :-)

Ei rey, arekta debate shuru korlum naki ? :-) Subject line ta palte
dile hoi eibare..

Debapriya.

[D.Ray]

sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) wrote:
>
>>>>>> In article <318761...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
>
>SM> She ki? Shobai aamader majority SCB jonotader moto shob shomoi
>SM> gurugombhir aalochona kore peter oshukhe bhugbe? Ki je bolen...
>
>Gurugombhir? Gotakotok a(n)tel chhara (count me out) ei newsgroup-e
>aar keu gurugombhir kina amar ghor shondeho!
>
>-Shubu

'A(n)tel' kothata prochoor shunechi kolkatai...Mane ta ki ? Mone pore
chotobelai ek mastuto dada ke ei proshno korate, se gomveer bhabe
bolechilo: A(n)tel mane jader budhdhi matha theke thutni te nebe ashe.

Ritimoton budhiman lok tnara, tai na ? :-)

Debapriya.

[Sumita B. Mallick]

ei prosonge mail gulo pore amar ja mone hochche ta holo, jotodin na chale ebong
meyeder "self esteem" ta aer ektu barche, totodin erokom biyer byapare
"negotiation" choltei thakbe.

Je chelera "negotiation"er through diye "pochondo" kore biye kore tader kache
sharmila`r problem er uttor nei. Ashao kora jai na.

Uttor ta ache meyeder kache ebong seta tader i khujte hobe. Keu ese doya kore
hate tule debe na. Ba dileo seta kono sommaner kotha noi.

Ar atrs porlei "sadharon" (ja kina Sharmila bolechen) eta ami ekebarei manina.

Meyera jodi nijeder obosthan ta ektu bhalo kore bojhen ebong "self esttem" baparta
je ekta just "buli" noi, nijer life eo projojyo, seta mone rakhen taholei dheere
dheere eisob baje trend gulo samaj theke chole jabe.

sumita

[Somdev Sen]

Ektu mild apotti korchhi, as a fellow Jodubongshio, 'brittishikkha'-te ki
graduate hoa jaai na ? Tobe to khub mushkil moshai. Hothat etodin nijeke
ontoto graduate bole je aatmosontusti chhilo seta bhenge gieye dum kore
H.S. pass-e demote kore dilen ?

Jaak ge, to come back to the main topic, apnaar ei contribution-ta osadharon.
Aami to sompurnobhabe nijeke apnar description-moto oi third categoy-te phelte
paarchhi. Sukher bishoi ekhono obdhi nijer rannar khabar 'soubhagyo' ekhono
amar hoi ni, ota ekhono room-mate-der upor diei cholchhe. Tobe 'aalshemi',
'aarampriyota' ebong 'aayeshipona'-te Nobel prize thaakte seta amar kopalei
naachto. To aapni ki mone koren, ei category-r chhele-ra finally anonde
thaake. Aamar to mone hoi seta depend kore oi apanar description moto ekti
'sorbongsoha' meye jutle, unfortunately jaar sombhabona aaj kaal boroi
kom. Taai agamikaal-er dike taakie aachi with trepidation...

Somdev.

[Indranil DasGupta]

Apratim Sarkar (asa...@us.oracle.com) wrote:

: E'i Fall'e BU'te SWEng.'r Grad. course'ta nao na? Ami nite pari ...

Tumi nao, ami tomar kachh theke summary-ta jene nebo.

Indranil.

[D.Ray]

sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) wrote:
>
[ deleted...]

>
>I am not using anything in a derogatory sense. Depending on the area,
>programming itself can be a heck of a challenge.
>
>BUT, I like calling a spade a spade. I just laugh when I hear people
>trying to glorify themselves by saying, "I am a software
>professional!"

What's wrong in people trying to 'glorify' themselves ? This is a capitalist
market and one has to sell oneself. Besides, I believe that the differences
aren't that much between a 'software professional' and a 'programmer',
particularly when you are _not_ being pedantic.

>What's wrong with being a software programmer? Now, I
>don't think it is derogatory. Maybe the person who uses the phrase
>"software professional" thinks the word programmer is derogatory!

Yes, some people do think 'programmer' doesn't sound as good as
'software engineer'...but again, what's the big deal ?! At IBM,
most of the positions leading to a 1st line management job are
referred to as junion programmer, associate programmer, staff programmer
and advisory programmer. Advisory programmers are very senior folks with
typically 6-10 years of experience and they do very little 'programming'...
they are more into design/analysis/architecture/leadership...Now, would
you call that derogatory or what ?

Essentially
when you are in the ranks, its the same kind of 'coding' job which you are
doing. Now, after a few years of experience, you can definitely become,
what many orgns call, a software architect, with more design/analysis/
management responsibilities. This role will definitely involve much
less coding/programming and is a stepping-stone into management.

>
>-Shubu
>
>PS: On the other hand, routine programming can be boring as well. I
> have friends from Computer Science, who are tired of programming
> jobs in the industry. Some of them are trying to get other
> degrees.

Anything mundane *is* boring...not just software programming...there are
instances at IBM where folks in software development move to marketing or
customer service and later move back into development...

Anyways, I think the discussion is becoming quite irrelevant to the thread
proposed by Sharmila.

Deb.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: >>>>> In article <4makav$n...@library.erc.clarkson.edu>, sn...@stress.mie.clarkson.edu (Snehasis Ganguly) writes:

: SG> Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: I am not using anything in a derogatory sense. Depending on the area,

: programming itself can be a heck of a challenge.

: BUT, I like calling a spade a spade. I just laugh when I hear people
: trying to glorify themselves by saying, "I am a software

: professional!" What's wrong with being a software programmer? Now, I

: don't think it is derogatory. Maybe the person who uses the phrase
: "software professional" thinks the word programmer is derogatory!

: -Shubu

: PS: On the other hand, routine programming can be boring as well. I
: have friends from Computer Science, who are tired of programming
: jobs in the industry. Some of them are trying to get other
: degrees.

: --

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences

Shubu,
Tumi ki boltey chao jara Genetic algorithm/Neural network etey
paper lekhe naa, tara ekebarey unprofessional ?
Being professional is a totally different concept and can be applied to
any field. A computer programmer can be called a true professional,
because apart fromprogramming he has to take pains to install/download software,
keep up with the latest in PC week in post in MSN network. Do you think
doing these things is less demanding than writing papers?
Very simply put, a professional is a person who takes pride in his
work and does it well, it could be a waitress you know..
So much for putting them down..
Snehasis

[Sutapa Chattopadhyay]

Indranil DasGupta wrote:
>
> Tumi nao, ami tomar kachh theke summary-ta jene nebo.
>
> Indranil.

Ei rey, summary ta abar post korona! :-)
--
Sutapa Chattopadhyay

[in...@lehigh.edu]

In article <4m5910$j...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, s...@bcm.tmc.edu (Sharmila K. Mukher
jee) writes:
>Eta re-post. Aager baarer post-ta karur server-e otheni na keu respond
> korlen na, bujhlaam na. Ebaar response paabo, aei aashai....
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>Aakta byapaare aapnader motaamot jaante chai. "Shombondho" kore biyer
>byapaare meye jodi kono arts subject niye pora-shona kore thaakey, tobey
>biyer bajaare tar dor kome jai, e rokom kono ghotona ki aapnader chokhe
>poreche? Aami deshe thaakte du-aakjon-er mukhe e rokom shunechilaam,
> je tara science/engg.-er meye biye korte aagrohi. Taader modhye
> aakjon-ke kaaron jiggesh koraate she janalo je he wants to have
>"meaningful, intelligent and logical" conversations with his wife
> and if the girl is from science/engg.stream, the probability of
> having such is greater. Tini science-pora meye-i biye korechilen
> kintu conversation-e kotota successful hote perechen aamar
>oboshyo khoNj kora hoi ni. Tobey aami ota minority opinion bhebe
> taamon patta dei ni.
> E deshe eshe dekhi eligible bachelors-ra bolchen je tNara-o
> Arts-er meye biye korte taamon utshaahi non. Kaaron? TNader boktobbyo
> je bou-era to baarite boshe thaakbe na, bore hoye jaabe. Taader aakta
> kichu kora dorkaar.Aakta kichu bolte aajkaal je jinishta khub cholche
> ta holo programming.Chaaridik-e dekhchi je onek-e biye kore desh thekey
> bou niye aashche, tara eshe-i jhot-pot du-chaarte language shikhe felche.
>Tarpor jodi work-permit peye jai, tobey to kella fotey! Chotokhato chaakri
>peye jachche. Aakhon science/engg. meyeder chaahida beshi, kaaron, again,
>the probability of their learning the languages very fast and consequently
>getting jobs is greater.Shune to aamar mathai haat! E abar ki rokom
> discrimination! Taahole aamader desher shei shob shadharon meyera, jara
>daana-kaata pori noi; nije pochondo kore biye kore uthte paareni; motaa-muti
>bhabe BA/MA paash koreche; baaper shanghatik poisha-o nei je oporpokkher
>joutuk laabher aasha thaakbe; chaakri-baakri-o jogaar hoi ni, taader ki
>hobe? Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
>na? Aapnara ki bolen?
> Iti chintito,
> Sharmila
>
>
aapnar kotha ami puro puri mante parlam na. Arts ar may der proti prochur
chheele attracted. it totally depends on the mentality of the person.
amar mote to arts er may ra onek superior than most engg./medical girls.
Arts er may onek beshi romantic. arts er mayra onek beshi homely(homily).
They r nice talker too. oder songe ghontar por ghanta golpo kora jai. Prem ta
shuru hoy - from its simplicity. I will prefer definitely a girl with arts
background.
I guess many people go for professional girls- one of the reasons could be
- they can become financially stable.
-all these r my personal opinions only.
-indro

[B. Bhattacharya]

BeRe likhechhen, bhaya!
--Baidurya.

Apratim-babu likhlen:

>Prothomei, e'i kalopojogi alochana'ti shuru kara'r janye Sharmiladebi'ke

>dhanyabad janai....

>Ta jai hok. Arts'r meyeder fyalna bala hochchhe naki? Biyete tader against'e
>discriminate kara hochchhe? Biyer byapar'e discriminate kara uchit kina
>eta govir proshno. Indiscriminately tin bachhar'e tinte prem kara'r jonyo
>ek kale lok'r anek katha shunechhi. Kintu byapar'ta amar kharap lageni.
>Besh jamati. Indiscriminately biye kara'ta'o perhaps omon jamati'i habe.
>

>...........

>Tabe, bou chakri kara'r ekta distinct advantage achhe, nijer chakri na korleo
>chale. Amar shei shukh'r din jato egiye ashchhe amiyo ahlade dagomago korchhi.
>Personal experience'e, khub'i enjoyable jiban. After all, puro ekta generation
>Bangali'ra o'i kore ar chandimandap'e adda diye jiban katiye gelen. Gola'r
>chaal, bou'r ranna, ar ki chai? Ekhon gola'te chaal na thakle bou'r chakri
>sheta substitute korte pare. (Anek'e ego problem'e bhoge, bale gala diye o bhat
>naambe na. Ekta beshi sheddho kore nilei she problem mite jai.)
>
>Sutarang, chakri'ta'o important. E'i ager je dujan'r katha bollam ekjan
>MBA ekhon, prochur maine (mash'e lakh, shuni) arekjan nijer dyash'e fire
>gechhe, multinational'e dollar kamai. Kintu shabar to she bhagyo hoi na.
>Amar moto anekei achhen jara bou'r rojgar'r mukh cheye boshe achhen,
>amar dharona.

>.......................

[Shubu Mukherjee]

So much for your arguments Rajiv. You definitely amuse me!
Particularly so because you think programming language design is same
as programming. Yes, you surely amuse me!! :-)

-Shubu

>>>>> In article <4mct60$b...@athos.cc.bellcore.com>, rajiv@magazine (Rajiv Shukla) writes:
In article <4mct60$b...@athos.cc.bellcore.com> rajiv@magazine (Rajiv Shukla) writes:

RS> In article <SHUBU.96M...@providence.cs.wisc.edu> sh...@cs.wisc.edu (Shubu Mukherjee) writes:
>>
>>
>>>> Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>>>> engineering is a well-established area in computer science.
>>>>
>>>> The latest buzzword is "software professionals", which is a glorified
>>>> name for programmers.
>>
R> In case you didn't know, *programming* is also a well-established area
R> in computer science.
>>
>> Now what makes you think that? :-)
>>
>> You can't name a single department in the US that lists programming as
>> one of its main areas!
>>
>> -Shubu

>> --

RS> There is no need because almost all areas involve programming in general.
RS> And if you are talking about *design of programming languages*, then there
RS> are a plenty of schools in U.S and Europe who are pretty well known.
RS> Also what made you think that something has to be a main area in school
RS> curriculum to be a major area in computer science? There are companies and
RS> research organisations who also contribute to the advancement of computer
RS> science and technology directly and indirectly, if you are not convinced
RS> then why don't you ask them whether programming is a major area or not.

RS> Rajiv

>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
>>
>>

RS> --
RS> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
RS> Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
RS> ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
RS> Bell Communications Research employer.
RS> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

[KBARMAN]

>essentially chhele-rai meye-der pochhondo korte paarbe, not
> the other way round, totodin ei vicious circle theke beronor kono rasta
> aachhe ki ?

ke bolechhey ? saab-i paisar khela.

[Rajiv Shukla]

In article <318766...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> Sharmila Mukherjee <s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
>Rajiv Shukla wrote:
>>
>
>> Jodi pore thake tahole ki habe?
>>
>> Rajiv
>
>
> Jab baba, hobe aabar ki? Poreche kina tai jante chaichilaam. Maane
>discrimination-ta kotota widespread, tai jante chaowa aar ki.
>
>
>Sharmila

Tate apnaar labh? Bekar bekar ei sab issue niye tanatani karar mane ta ki?
Apni ki kicchu solve korte parben na solve karar iccha acche?

Rajiv
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.

ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my

Bell Communications Research employer.

[Rajiv Shukla]

Shubu Mukherjee (sh...@cs.wisc.edu) wrote:

: So much for your arguments Rajiv. You definitely amuse me!

: Particularly so because you think programming language design is same
: as programming. Yes, you surely amuse me!! :-)

: -Shubu

I don't get it, really! when you said that programming is not the main
area in schools I didn't realise what exactly you m + ant by that.
As I said programming is all pervasive in almost any fields in computer
science, the question that programming is not a major area doesn't hold good,
what I was wondering about was whether you had other issues on programming
also in mind, now I guess you were only talking about proramming courses
in which case all I can say is teaching programming languages can never
be a main area becuase as far as I know teaching how to write codes
is not really a forte for people in academics.
As for what exactly is designing programming languages I don't think
I have to learn that from you.
And as for you being amused all I can say is I seem to have a healthy
effect on people, isn't that nice?

Rajiv

P.S Also I'd like to make a suggestion to you, why don't you stick
to your typical "Meyeli pana" e.g starting threads on topics on eve teasing
in Calcutta, child abuse in bengali families and discussing 1901 books on
Indian history.

: RS> Rajiv

: RS> --
: RS> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
: RS> Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
: RS> ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
: RS> Bell Communications Research employer.
: RS> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

: --

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[sayan bhattacharyya]

Rajiv Shukla <ra...@ctt.bellcore.com> wrote:
>
>Tate apnaar labh? Bekar bekar ei sab issue niye tanatani karar mane ta ki?
>Apni ki kicchu solve korte parben na solve karar iccha acche?

No one ever "solved" any social problems by posting on the internet. No
one ever will. The best that the internet can do is to create awareness.
That too is important, because although awareness is not a sufficient
condition for solving a social problem, it is nevertheless a necessary
condition.

-Sayan.

[Shubu Mukherjee]

>>>>> In article <4mfou0$7...@athos.cc.bellcore.com>, rajiv@magazine (Rajiv Shukla) writes:

RS> P.S Also I'd like to make a suggestion to you, why don't you stick
RS> to your typical "Meyeli pana" e.g starting threads on topics on
RS> eve teasing in Calcutta, child abuse in bengali families and
RS> discussing 1901 books on Indian history.

Now now, don't cry! :-)

-Shubu

PS: What a stereotypical portrayal of women above!! :-) Achha
Shukla-ji, ranna kora, ranna-r recipe exchange kora -- etao ki
meyeli pona? Achha kon kon kaaj purush-era kor-te par-e bolun
to? Ei dhorun programming -- sheta ki meyeli pona? :-)

[sayan bhattacharyya]

Rajiv Shukla <rajiv@magazine> wrote:

>typical "Meyeli pana" e.g starting threads on topics on eve teasing

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>in Calcutta, child abuse in bengali families and discussing 1901 books on
>Indian history.

I think your sexist biases are showing, Mr. Rajiv Macho Shukla.

-Sayan.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Dasgupta (TXD...@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: Sharmila:

: Dukhkhito, aagey ei tophath-ta nojor eDiye gechchilo.

: Ami kokhono kono negotiation dekhini. Byaparta ojana. Amar bondhura
: to shobai nije pochchondo korey biye korechchey. Atmiyo-shojonder
: khetre ami ongshogrohon korini negotiation-er byapare.

: Tothyer bhittitey jodi apnar katha shotyo hoye thakey, tahole ami
: mone kori eta khub-i chintar bishoy. Amar shoho-byatha janai.

: Shoumyo.

Sotti kotha bolte eta oto chintaar bishoi naa |
eta after all manusher ruchi/pachondo..
Er thekey onek baro problem holo, aajkaal chootpot divorce
hoey jaachey, statistically ekbar porechilaam je love marriage
etey beshi hocche, tobey aajkaal arranged maarriage -eo khub hochhe
aar ki|
Btw,
amaar bandhu bandhav der modhey ami beshir bhag arranged maariage
dekhechi, tobey negotiation ami oboshyo kori ni..
eiy sob byapar besh
chintar karon.
Snehasis

[Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar]

Humm.
--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu

[Rajiv Shukla]

I don't believe any social problem in India can be solved from USA,
neither there is point in trying to create awareness as we all have come
from the same place, if you know and concerned about any particular
problem then there is no reason for you to believe that others don't know
or aren't concerned about it.

Rajiv

[sayan bhattacharyya]

Snehasis Ganguly <sneh...@Hawaii.Edu> wrote:

> Er thekey onek baro problem holo, aajkaal chootpot divorce
> hoey jaachey,

Why is that a problem? It seems to me that it may be a welcome sign,
that many people are not allowing the dead weight of tradition
any longer to trap them into meaningless relationships. For far too
long people in our society, especially women, have silently acquiesed
to abusive, humiliating and sometimes even life-threatening situatons
just because divorce wasn't socially acceptable.

[Debjeet Pal]

Sharmila Mukherjee (s...@shiva.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu) wrote:
: Debjeet Pal wrote:

: > Ki kando??!! Eto shotti chintaar bapar. Amaar porichito dui
: > chelay to bangla-ay B.A. pass meye, er Geography-te M.A. pass meye biye
: > koraychen. Chelera dujonayi England-a born and brought up.

: Good job! Three cheers for them! Tobey biye ta arranged chilo to?

HyNa, arranged boiki......

: Aar amaar to
: > arts-er meyederi generally beshi bhalo laagay

: Aaro shukhobor!!
: [...]
: >
: > Ami nijay computer scientist hoye ei "jhot-pot du-chaartay language shikhay
: > fele chakri peye jaye" dhoroner kotha-batra shuntay/portay besh odhbhooth
: > feel kori.

: E kotha ta je shotti, sheta aei net-ei onek-e shikaar korechen, :)
: >

: > Ja hok, "Aar aei 'probability'-r chokkore pore taader ki aakta chance-o jootbe
: > na? " er uttoray ami bolbo "oboshoi jutobay".
: >
: > Debjeet.

: Khub bhalo kotha, er thekey beshi shukhobor aar ki hotey pare, :)

: Sharmila

Poroborti section-ta hoyto ektu personal hoye jabay, tobay ichchay holay
uttor deben.

Sharmila-di apnar ei thread-er initial posting er consistent follow-up
dekhe monay hoy jay apnar personal life-a (maanay relatives ba bondu-bandhob)
keu ba kichu jon roychay jara " 'Arts'-er meye ki fyalna? " ei dhoroner
inferiority complex-a bhugchay. Jodi tai hoy taholay apni ektu net-a ba
paper-a ba onno kothao adv. diye dekhun na kirom response paan.....
amaar to monay hoy bhaloi response paben. Er ta jodi na hoy taholay amaar
porichito kichu eligible bachelor achay, alaap koriay deoa jetay paray!!,
ki bolen?

Debjeet.

p.s. maanay ei thread-a eto posting porchay, aapni jodi problem-ta er ektu
precisely janan (hoyto ekta different perspective-a) taholay hoyto
aro helpful hoa jabay.

[Snehasis Ganguly]

Apratim Sarkar (asa...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
: Prothomei, e'i kalopojogi alochana'ti shuru kara'r janye Sharmiladebi'ke
: dhanyabad janai. Arts'r meye'ra fyalna kina e proshno amar mathai konodin

: asheni karon amar gushtisudhdhu Arts'r. Ami'i ekmatro Engineering poRechhi,
: amar baba'r mate jeta kina vocational training orofe brityishikkha. Nijeke
: Higher Sceondary pass bolei chirodin dhore eshechhi, baRi'te kono ekta
: discussion hole chirodin, "Tui graduate obdhi nosh, tui ki bujhish?" e to
: chirodin shune ebang mene elam.

: Ta jai hok. Arts'r meyeder fyalna bala hochchhe naki? Biyete tader against'e

: discriminate kara hochchhe? Biyer byapar'e discriminate kara uchit kina

Desher khobor to janina he, kintu edeshe to amar bandhura
arts-er meye pachondo korche naa.| Sutoraang ek dhoroner
discrimination to aachei|
Tobe ekhun arts er meyeka MBA/programmer baniye pocket-ey
Dollar dhokanokey tumi indiscrimination na discrimination bolo?

: eta govir proshno. Indiscriminately tin bachhar'e tinte prem kara'r jonyo

: ek kale lok'r anek katha shunechhi. Kintu byapar'ta amar kharap lageni.
: Besh jamati. Indiscriminately biye kara'ta'o perhaps omon jamati'i habe.

: Ebang shekhetre Arts'r meye apochhando habar kono karon to ami dekhi na.

: In fact, amar Jodu'r kichhu purono bondhu Science/Engg. faculty katiye
: Arts'ei prem korte jeto. Tader mote, eke sample space anek baRo tai
: "meye tola"'r expected value of anek beshi. Also, serious compeitition
: kam, supply-demand'r khela'i. In fact, shudhu Jodu keno, IITKGP'r kichhu
: janatao eki line'e chhilo bole mone paRe. Antoto dujan shonibar bhor rattire
: train dhore Kolkata eshe shara weekend prem kore abar Robbar fire jeto.
: Both of them are happily married now. To Arts'r meye, both of them. Antoto
: ekjan'r bou parama shundari, arekjon'o definitely A-'r kam noi.

Tomra sob bhagyabaan jonota he, Kharagpur etey thakteo prem-tem
korte |

: Tabe ki IDG'i thik!?

: Tabe, bou chakri kara'r ekta distinct advantage achhe, nijer chakri na korleo

: chale. Amar shei shukh'r din jato egiye ashchhe amiyo ahlade dagomago korchhi.
: Personal experience'e, khub'i enjoyable jiban. After all, puro ekta generation
: Bangali'ra o'i kore ar chandimandap'e adda diye jiban katiye gelen. Gola'r
: chaal, bou'r ranna, ar ki chai? Ekhon gola'te chaal na thakle bou'r chakri
: sheta substitute korte pare. (Anek'e ego problem'e bhoge, bale gala diye o bhat
: naambe na. Ekta beshi sheddho kore nilei she problem mite jai.)

Eta tumi edesher reference-etey bolley na odesher? amader deshe
barite boshe thakle ekta social pressure aache to naaki?

: Sutarang, chakri'ta'o important. E'i ager je dujan'r katha bollam ekjan

: MBA ekhon, prochur maine (mash'e lakh, shuni) arekjan nijer dyash'e fire

Eta ki Dollar na Rs?

: gechhe, multinational'e dollar kamai. Kintu shabar to she bhagyo hoi na.

: Amar moto anekei achhen jara bou'r rojgar'r mukh cheye boshe achhen,
: amar dharona.

: In fact, gorib du:khi byachara chheleder shankhya'o kam noi jara kina

: ektu alash, ektu ayeshi, arampriyo. BaRite thakte noRe ghash khai ni konodin,
: ekhon nijer ranna khachchhe. E'i amari moto. Tader abashyo shabtheke suit
: kare grihakarmanipuna potibatsal bou. E'i ager type'r chhele'ra in general

Tomar tinte category koi? E'i ager ta kara? Jai hok, IMO eiydeshe
bhabuk hoey benche thakar upjukto jaiga noi | aar bhabuk holei
baajey bokey, eta kirokom kotha he ? Jaara bhabuk noi tarao to
kato sahityo sabha, party,office eiysob etey giye baajey boke.. abaar
maal, ganja eiyshob kheyeo baaje boke|( BTW, Baje Golpogulo key
nischoi baje bokatey include korcho naa..)

: ektu beshi bhabuk prokiti'r hoi, baje bokte ektu beshi bhalobashe, Ethiopian

: sahityo ki Timbuktu'r economy niye. Tader baRite khub shundar ekta division
: of responsibilities hoye jai - international ja kichhu decision neowa'r,
: jemon Russia'te communist'ra ashbe kina ki Akira baRo na Satyajit - e shab
: chhele'rai kare, ar rojkar shongshar cholbe kibhabe, taka'r hisheb, baba-ma'r
: dekhashuno, chhele-meye'r paRashuno, SCB'te dhap khaowa shwami'r ego problem
: shamlano, e shab bou'r. Mash maine ene bou'r hate diye dilei holo, tarpar
: chinta bhabna'r shomoi to poRe achhe.

: Amar dharona, e'i tritiyo school'r lokera'i finally shabcheye anonde thake.

Eiytya amader deshe to bhaloi chole.. amaar sob nikot atyiora
eiy ponthai obolomban koreche | Deshe barir kaaj-O besh labour
intensive aar prochur hassle, tai division of labour chole..
Tobey eiyrokom meye aajkal aar pawaa jai na, aajkaall to sobai
arts porbar poreo NIIT, accounting etc etc korei jaache..

: Emon ekti meye jodi pan, bondhugan, chhaRben na. Chirokal shukhe thakben.

: Ebang, e jati'r meyeder kono Arts/Science/Engineering division hoi na,
: e shab bhalo meyeder kalo chul dekhte, sharbada'i, vaari beautiful.

In other words, tumi sobaike housewife biye kortey paramarsho diye dile| Aare feminist de rkothatha bhebcho ekbaar?

: Apratim.

: --
: Ghash parjanta durbodhya! mati Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
: rahashyamaya; are my own and shouldn't be construed in
: Etota rahashya bhalo noi. any way to represent that of my employer.
: - Amiyo Chakrabarty.

Snehasis

[S Bhattacharyya]

>Apratim Sarkar (asa...@us.oracle.com) wrote:

>: In fact, gorib du:khi byachara chheleder shankhya'o kam noi jara kina
>: ektu alash, ektu ayeshi, arampriyo. BaRite thakte noRe ghash khai ni konodin,
>: ekhon nijer ranna khachchhe. E'i amari moto. Tader abashyo shabtheke suit
>: kare grihakarmanipuna potibatsal bou. E'i ager type'r chhele'ra in general

Yeah, yeah, yeah!! :-) kintu janata meye dekhte field a namlei
takhan nanan pyakhna tole - babuder Rupa Ganguly cum Prestige Pressure
Cooker er model grihakarmanipoona mahilati cum pasher baRir purano
premikati, shab kichur bundled package na hole jeno kichutei man
bharena - takhon er naakta jeno ektu tyRa, she public tar katha gulo
kemon jeno kata-kata, laat saheber nati ra aei shab bahana tulte
thake! Engg college e paRar samay shabeb der kono meyer sange saamna
saamni katha bolar kyali ta cheRe din, chokh tule takanor mata buker
pata chhilo na, aajke $ er joRe ekkebari "Now you sing Rabindrasangeet
- I like to hear!" chalachhe....
Issse to accha hay bhai, ye janta chullu bhar pani me naha ke
aye - shayad ghat me koi chhori mil jai!
(BTW pardon da Hindi, kintu gala gali korar janye ota khoob
efficient bhasha :-)

Santanu

[Anindya Banerjee [epsilon]]

Shubu Mukherjee writes:

>>>>>> In article <4m8e55$15...@rtpnews.raleigh.ibm.com>, "D.Ray" <debap...@vnet.ibm.com> writes:

>DR> Ekhon, e deser information-based somaj e chakri paoar ekta sohoj poth
>DR> holo software engineering i.e programming jana.

>Software engineering is __not__ same as programming. Software
>engineering is a well-established area in computer science.

Is it? And what does software engineering mean/entail?

Kind regards,
--anindya