The Bengali Peshwas
Amitabha Lahiri
Some moron has confused s.c.bengali with s.c.marathi. Could we (those of us
who believe that bengalis are not marathis) please suspend our mutual
differences and tell this idiot to piss off? And let's be polite to him, no
threats, no name-calling (this post notwithstanding) no email bombing. But
if enough people write to him, maybe it will get through his skull that
Bengalis are not Marathis. It may be a good idea to quote the post, but
that is up to individual posters. Let's try to clean up s.c.b. a bit.
Amitabha
--
Amitabha Lahiri MAPS University of Sussex A.La...@central.susx.ac.uk
No one else is responsible for what I say and vice versa.
Today it's the Bengalis, tomorrow it will be you.
Supratik Das
On 20 Jun 1996, Amitabha Lahiri wrote:
> Some moron has confused s.c.bengali with s.c.marathi. Could we (those of us
> who believe that bengalis are not marathis) please suspend our mutual
> differences and tell this idiot to piss off? And let's be polite to him, no
> threats, no name-calling (this post notwithstanding) no email bombing. But
> if enough people write to him, maybe it will get through his skull that
> Bengalis are not Marathis. It may be a good idea to quote the post, but
> that is up to individual posters. Let's try to clean up s.c.b. a bit.
I am not sure in what context you were making the above comments but I
would like to point out a mistake you made as regards to the assertion that
Bengalies are not Marathis. Actually during the Maratha conquest of
Bengal, a number of Marathis settled down in Bengal and became
naturalised Bengalies. If you look around you will find out that Kar,
Karmakar, Naik, Mazumdar, Joardar, Talukdar, Sarkar to name a few are
all descended from those settlers.
> Amitabha
Regards,
Supratik
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Supratik Das (d...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
: I am not sure in what context you were making the above comments but I
: would like to point out a mistake you made as regards to the assertion that
: Bengalies are not Marathis. Actually during the Maratha conquest of
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Bengal, a number of Marathis settled down in Bengal and became
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I remember our history right, Marathas never conquered Bengal in the
sense that they never put Bengal in their administered territory. What
Marathas did was to come on a periodic looting mission (to collect
Barga-hence the name of the force was Bargi). Some more knowledgeable
person may clarify.
: naturalised Bengalies. If you look around you will find out that Kar,
: Karmakar, Naik, Mazumdar, Joardar, Talukdar, Sarkar to name a few are
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: all descended from those settlers.
Well, the surname Mazumdar, Talukdar and Sarkar are found among Bengali
Muslims too. If I remember right, all these surnames came from the name
of the official positions held by different govt. functionaries under the
Sultan of Bengal.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Apratim Sarkar
Amitabha, Thanks much for your post!
bha...@unixg.ubc.ca (Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya) writes:
>Supratik Das (d...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
>
>: I am not sure in what context you were making the above comments but I
>: would like to point out a mistake you made as regards to the assertion that
>: Bengalies are not Marathis. Actually during the Maratha conquest of
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: Bengal, a number of Marathis settled down in Bengal and became
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>If I remember our history right, Marathas never conquered Bengal in the
>sense that they never put Bengal in their administered territory. What
>Marathas did was to come on a periodic looting mission (to collect
>Barga-hence the name of the force was Bargi). Some more knowledgeable
>person may clarify.
Secondary history'te poRechhilam Maratha ashwarohi'der naam chhilo
Bargir, tar theke Bangali'ra Borgi baniye niyechhilo.
>: naturalised Bengalies. If you look around you will find out that Kar,
>: Karmakar, Naik, Mazumdar, Joardar, Talukdar, Sarkar to name a few are
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: all descended from those settlers.
Supratik, Sarkar ekti upadhi. Tar shange Maratha -kar padobi'r
kono sangjog nei. For example, Sarsh'r Sarkar family'r (jekhan theke
historian Sushobhan Sarkar ki kobi Arun Kumar Sarkar o Alok Sarkar
eshechhen) root Karnatak'e. Padobi Deb, upadhi Sarkar. Eder gNyati
sishu-sahityik Sukumar De Sarkar Deb ansho'ti'ke baad den ni.
Anyway, ashol proshne ashi. Karnatak'e kintu SS/BJP nei. SCB'te
Karnatak niye alochana'i apnar ki matamat? For that matter,
Chandannagar'ke mone rekhe SCF theke crosspost korle kemon hoi?
Kimba Portuguese jaladashyu'der sMarane SCP theke?
>Well, the surname Mazumdar, Talukdar and Sarkar are found among Bengali
>Muslims too. If I remember right, all these surnames came from the name
>of the official positions held by different govt. functionaries under the
>Sultan of Bengal.
Absolutely correct. Hindus too, though.
>--
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Apratim.
--
Likhlam Bichitra Das'ke Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
"Bohudin dekhini akash'ke| are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Ushno tomar smriti ekhono any way to represent that of my employer.
Amar e hriadyer flask'e|"
Soumitra Bose
In <Pine.SUN.3.91.960621...@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> writes:
>
>
>
>On 20 Jun 1996, Amitabha Lahiri wrote:
>
>> Some moron has confused s.c.bengali with s.c.marathi. Could we
(those of us
>> who believe that bengalis are not marathis) please suspend our
mutual
>> differences and tell this idiot to piss off? And let's be polite to
him, no
>> threats, no name-calling (this post notwithstanding) no email
bombing. But
>> if enough people write to him, maybe it will get through his skull
that
>> Bengalis are not Marathis. It may be a good idea to quote the post,
but
>> that is up to individual posters. Let's try to clean up s.c.b. a
bit.
>
>would like to point out a mistake you made as regards to the assertion
that
>Bengalies are not Marathis. Actually during the Maratha conquest of
>Bengal, a number of Marathis settled down in Bengal and became
>naturalised Bengalies. If you look around you will find out that Kar,
>Karmakar, Naik, Mazumdar, Joardar, Talukdar, Sarkar to name a few are
>all descended from those settlers.
>
>
>> Amitabha
>
>Regards,
>Supratik
>
This is not true , all the surnames that you pointed out are not
surnames but titles obtained by various officials in the Nawabi period
, they were given mainly to the office-bearers , most of them are
Hindus , well now they have continued as a family name . All these were
"below" the atghar kayets of the bengal and this title-turned-surname
became a vehicle of moving up the caste-ladder and/or to obfuscate the
caste identity. MAny of these titles have also some Brahmin people
among them.