Poita (fwd)
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
On 28 Feb 1997, Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> Poita is the name of the sacred thread that the Brahmins of Bengal wear.
> The ceremony that bestows this sacred thread is also known as Poita.
> The sacred thread is what gives a Brahmin his Bramhin status. When I had
> my Poita, we had to stay in a room for three days and we could not look
> at any Non-Brahmins. We had to cook our own food and could not use salt.
Isn't there also a stipulation that you are not allowed to see the sun?
At least, that's what I was told when I had mine. There's also a
tradition of getting your ear pierced, and getting your head shaved on
the day of the poita.
> When Non-Brahmins came to see us we had to cover our face. I still
> remember couple of Non-Brahmin women who brought fruits and sweets for us
> and did "Pronam" (salutation) before us even though they were of the same
> age as my mother. Among non-brahmins I think people of the "Baidya" caste
> in Bengal has Poita (I could be wrong though).
> [Note: I don't wear Poita. Last time I put on Poita was during my
> marriage when it was a part of the attire.]
I lost my poita somewhere too, but when I went back to India this time, I
got another one. I just didn't feel right in Kashi without one, you know?
If nothing else, I think of it as a link to the homeland (my Jetu was the
one who gave me the poita), and feel the need to have one on me whenever
I go back.
> If you feel that castesim is irrational then caste symbols are irrational
> too!.
In a certain sense, you are correct. However, I view my poita more as a
symbolic past (i.e. it comes from my Jetu, to him from my grandfather, to
him from his father, to him from his...). As such, I ascribe meaning to
it that, though it may be irrational, is logical at some level. Symbols
are important, too, despite what objectivists say. But I don't view it as
a symbol of my caste; rather, as a symbol of my heritage and family.
> --
> Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
__________________________________________________________________________
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
sapt...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
"What form does caste have? I have never seen it, brother, with these
eyes of mine"
-- Lalon Phakin (1774-1890)
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay (sapt...@cehpx34.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Isn't there also a stipulation that you are not allowed to see the sun?
: At least, that's what I was told when I had mine. There's also a
: tradition of getting your ear pierced, and getting your head shaved on
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: the day of the poita.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I did not have my ears pierced. The head was shaven though. The ban on
seeing the sun was also there.
: In a certain sense, you are correct. However, I view my poita more as a
: symbolic past (i.e. it comes from my Jetu, to him from my grandfather, to
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: him from his father, to him from his...). As such, I ascribe meaning to
: it that, though it may be irrational, is logical at some level. Symbols
: are important, too, despite what objectivists say. But I don't view it as
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: a symbol of my caste; rather, as a symbol of my heritage and family.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I understand you Saptarshi. When I wrote about my expatriate relations I
forgot to mention that
a)None of their children know Bengali (can't even speak)
b)These relations always spoke of India in a very derogatory terms when
they went for a visit. Their whole attitude was that they are somehow
great because they earn their income in dollars. I once told an uncle of
mine that India became poor and dirty the day he flew away from Dum Dum
and US became rich and prosperous the day he landed in JFK.
In your case I can understand the Poita being a symbol of heritage. I
don't understand my uncles, whose children have no idea of the beautiful
and the sublime in our literature and language, who have no taste for
Indian food but who will still perform the Poita!
I reacted to Joydeep's post because I sensed the same high browed
attitude in his post.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Joydeep Bhattacharya
In article <5f8upp$2ds$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya says...
[..]
>I reacted to Joydeep's post because I sensed the same high browed
>attitude in his post.
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Excuse me, but which post of mine is being referred to here?
Joydeep
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone talks about apathy, but no one does anything about it!
Joydeep Bhattacharya
Marshall School of Business, USC
Los Angeles CA 90025
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joydeep Bhattacharya
>
>: Isn't there also a stipulation that you are not allowed to see the sun?
>: At least, that's what I was told when I had mine. There's also a
>: tradition of getting your ear pierced, and getting your head shaved on
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: the day of the poita.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>I did not have my ears pierced. The head was shaven though. The ban on
>seeing the sun was also there.
[...]
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
If I remember correctly, you don't have to have your ears pierced or head
shaved if you are below a certain age (11 or 13). These have to be done as
part of "praischitto" if you are older. You may also be asked to do all this if
you have "crossed the seas".
On the whole, my poite was a satisfying experience. In the process, I at least
managed to commit the Gayatri Mantra to memory! I regret that I never got
around to perform the "shondhye aannik" on a regular basis although I was
aware of the "stress-relieving" properties of such a ritual.
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Joydeep Bhattacharya (joyd...@rcf.usc.edu) wrote:
: In article <5f8upp$2ds$1...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya says...
: [..]
: >I reacted to Joydeep's post because I sensed the same high browed
: >attitude in his post.
: >Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
: Excuse me, but which post of mine is being referred to here?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: Joydeep
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------
: Everyone talks about apathy, but no one does anything about it!
: Joydeep Bhattacharya
: Marshall School of Business, USC
: Los Angeles CA 90025
: -----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was a different Joydeep - one from Cornell University. I found
his post after searching dejanews and I am posting it below, in extensio,
for your perusal.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
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_________________________________________________________________
Article 11 of 28
Subject: Re: Fiddling while the country burns?
From: hb...@cornell.edu (Helle Bunzel)
Date: 1997/02/20
Message-Id: <5ei24q$l...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>
Sender: hb...@cornell.edu (Verified)
References: <5e5kqc$kgn$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu> <sugato-1902970046130001@141.2
11.238.87> <5ef7ar$f6k$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu> <sugato-2002...@141.211.
238.87>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Organization: Cornell University
Mime-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bengali
In article <sugato-2002...@141.211.238.87>, sug...@umich.edu
says...
[...]
> There is always the notion
>that is handed down for generations that education is to be used for the
>job and the rest of life is to be governed by traditional ways.
[...]
>Sugato Bhattacharyya
Isn't this more a reflection of the kind of "education" we get out of our
education system rather than a statement about the failure on our part to
internalize it? After all, we all (Sayan don't jump on me now!) led double
lives while we were back home. I went to an english-medium missionary school
and was taught "western rationality" and a "western way of thinking". At
home, my parents systematically tried to downplay the role of what we learnt
in school emphasizing that this western mode of thinking was to be used only
in the workplace ("Saheb der kaach theke shekar ek matro jinish holo karjo
khetre ki bhabe saffollo orjon kora jai"). A classic conflict I am sure we
have all faced, is over the issue of privacy. School taught us the
importance of the "individual"; home taught us the importance of sacrificing
the individual for the greater good of society/family. And it was clear that
privacy could not be the centerpiece of a body of thought if it failed to
recognize the "individual". Hence the conflict.
IMHO, ever since the British introduced english-medium education and
"western philosophy" into our lives, we have never been comfortable or
successful in merging the east and the west in our lives. The easy way out
is to lead a double life. Many of us who hated this are here today! We gave
up this nonsensical struggle (often with a vengeance!) when we came here.
Our education system showed us no other way. This is not to say that we came
here only to get out of this mess.
In the years ahead, this issue will fade in importance; after all, part of
the problem was that while our parents went to Ballygunge Govt School or
Hare for their education, we chose St.Xaviers etc. Hopefully the next
generation will not have to lead such a dual existence. Or maybe they'll
face the conflict of duality between MTV-gen-X values in school and ours at
home!
Joydeep
(posting from a friend's a/c)
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Sharmila Mukherjee
Joydeep Bhattacharya wrote:
[...]
I regret that I never got
> around to perform the "shondhye aannik" on a regular basis although I was
> aware of the "stress-relieving" properties of such a ritual.
>
> Joydeep
ANya! She ki! Shondhya-aahnik koro na? Aabar nijeke bamun thakur
hishebe porichoi dao? Chhee, chhee!
Sharmila
--
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success
is sure.
-- Mark Twain
Rajiv Shukla
Joydeep Bhattacharya (joyd...@rcf.usc.edu) wrote:
:
: >Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
:
: If I remember correctly, you don't have to have your ears pierced or head
Actually you don't have to do anything, I had my "poita" last year,
paid a hefty sum and got my thread ;-) One of the stupidest ceremony there is.
Rajiv
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajiv Shukla My opinions are mine.
ra...@ctt.bellcore.com I don't speak for my
Bell Communications Research employer.
Robin Chatterjee
Amar poite besh late e hoeche (at the age of 25).Truly speaking aaj
kalkar dine sandhya aanik kara khubi mushkil .Here I am cooped up in a
windowless cubicle under artificial lighting ,sandhya hoeche ki sakal
hoeche kono ter paoa jay na.
I suppose whoever's in charge up there will forgive all our
transgressions,so why worry.life mein load kum lene ka hai types...
--
Robin Chatterjee
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/8312/ Robin's PERL Win32
Page
Chatterj...@tandem.com
mailto:rob...@star-trek.com
mailto:rob...@hotmail.com
mailto:rob...@geocities.com
http://www.angelfire.com/pg9/robin/index.html
http://free.websight.com/Chatterjee/
http://www3.pair.com/jgurney/one/a/robin.html
Joydeep Bhattacharya
In article <331B51...@vishnu.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila
Mukherjee says...
>
>Joydeep Bhattacharya wrote:
>
>[...]
> I regret that I never got
>> around to perform the "shondhye aannik" on a regular basis although I
was
>> aware of the "stress-relieving" properties of such a ritual.
>>
>> Joydeep
>
> ANya! She ki! Shondhya-aahnik koro na? Aabar nijeke bamun thakur
>hishebe porichoi dao? Chhee, chhee!
>
>Sharmila
Sharmila:
Eta ektu below the belt hoye gelo na? Du-chaar pod ranna korte pari bole eto
shob kotha shunte hobe!
:-)
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
On 4 Mar 1997, Rajiv Shukla wrote:
> Joydeep Bhattacharya (joyd...@rcf.usc.edu) wrote:
> :
> : >Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
> :
> : If I remember correctly, you don't have to have your ears pierced or head
>
> Actually you don't have to do anything, I had my "poita" last year,
> paid a hefty sum and got my thread ;-) One of the stupidest ceremony there is.
>
> Rajiv
Might I suggest that you missed out on the *true* experience? There's
nothing like seeing the sun for the first time in 3 days to foster
appreciation for the delicate balance of life and its worth. There is
nothing like sacrificing an object of vanity (your hair) as the purohit
speaks the mantra (written by those who came before you) to solidify your
position in the world as a seeker of truth and spiritual fulfillment.
There is a LOT of symbolism in the poita which is better *experienced*
than *bought*. It is one of the true "coming of age ceremonies" that is
left in the world. Now that you have your poita, might I suggest that you
take some time to contemplate its significance to you? And if you find it
meaningless, then please re-do the ceremony in spirit, if not in deed.
__________________________________________________________________________
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
sapt...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
Sharmila Mukherjee
Joydeep Bhattacharya wrote:
>
> In article <331B51...@vishnu.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila
> Mukherjee says...
> > ANya! She ki! Shondhya-aahnik koro na? Aabar nijeke bamun thakur
> >hishebe porichoi dao? Chhee, chhee!
> >
> >Sharmila
>
> Sharmila:
>
> Eta ektu below the belt hoye gelo na? Du-chaar pod ranna korte pari bole eto
> shob kotha shunte hobe!
>
> :-)
Aaha choto kyan? Borong fasto-kelaash kore korma banao dekhi, tahole
shob maap!
Samir Bhattacharya
Sharmila likhechhen:
>Joydeep Bhattacharya wrote:
>>
>> In article <331B51...@vishnu.3dem.bioch.bcm.tmc.edu>, Sharmila
>> Mukherjee says...
>> > ANya! She ki! Shondhya-aahnik koro na? Aabar nijeke bamun thakur
>> >hishebe porichoi dao? Chhee, chhee!
>> >
>> >Sharmila
>>
>> Sharmila:
>>
>> Eta ektu below the belt hoye gelo na? Du-chaar pod ranna korte pari bole eto
>> shob kotha shunte hobe!
>>
>> :-)
> Aaha choto kyan? Borong fasto-kelaash kore korma banao dekhi, tahole
>shob maap!
Thik. Upojukto 'mulyo' dhore dite parle aahnik-faahnik-er dorkar
lagena. TachhaDa Joydeep pakka ayk bochchhor kheye eshechhe TNu
shobdo-ti na kore, sheta bhulle cholbena! Ta rNadha-taki onyo boDo
kichhur jonye net-practice hochhe? Joydeep, tomake puro poribeshon-er
dik-tao dekhte hobe mone achhe to?
Samir
>Sharmila
Robin Chatterjee
hear hear !!!
I too believe that the true significance has been lost,which is why i am
against it being done at the early are of 9 or so.Every living thing on
this plant is alive through the gift of power and light which the sun
god savitridevata has given us,so the fact that we ask the sun god or
supreme source of power to inspire our though processes seems to be a
very relevant wish..
The only problems with this ceremony are that it is somewhat narrow in
that only "Brahma's chosen ones" undergo it,and that a lot of the true
meaning has been lost through adulterations over he ages( like pancha
gabba prayaschitta,then you do not see the sun for three days because
supposedly the sun god is the god of the sudras,that's crap)
Indranil
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay (sapt...@cehpx34.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Might I suggest that you missed out on the *true* experience? There's
: nothing like seeing the sun for the first time in 3 days to foster
: appreciation for the delicate balance of life and its worth. There is
: nothing like sacrificing an object of vanity (your hair) as the purohit
: speaks the mantra (written by those who came before you) to solidify your
: position in the world as a seeker of truth and spiritual fulfillment.
: There is a LOT of symbolism in the poita which is better *experienced*
: than *bought*. It is one of the true "coming of age ceremonies" that is
: left in the world. Now that you have your poita, might I suggest that you
: take some time to contemplate its significance to you? And if you find it
: meaningless, then please re-do the ceremony in spirit, if not in deed.
Seeing the sun after 3 days? Hmmm...if that is what you need to make it
a day then visit Boston in winter. People say, it was seen over the
Soldiers Field road one afternoon in January. Ever since, I have been
making a detour through that area with a binocular in the glove
compartment.
Most of my friends who had poite, had it when they were 8 or 9 years
old. Admittedly, long before they really came of age in sweaty, restless
nights with palpitating hearts. I had mine when I was 24 and getting
married. Wore it proudly for 48 hours after which it started getting in
the way of more sportful things.
IDG
Apratim Sarkar
Indranil (dgu...@buphy.bu.edu) wrote:
: I had mine when I was 24 and getting
: married.
Bamun'r meye'ke biye kore gotro'o change korle naki?
: IDG
Apratim.
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, Robin Chatterjee wrote:
> hear hear !!!
> I too believe that the true significance has been lost,which is why i am
> against it being done at the early are of 9 or so.Every living thing on
Well, it has to be done at some point. 9 years of age may be too early,
but it should definitely be done during adolescence, as a "right of
passage" sort of event. As far as the age, I believe it should be judged
on a individual-by-individual basis, with the idea that one shouldn't
have it until one can understand the significance. I had it at age 13,
which was a good age.
[stuff deleted]
> The only problems with this ceremony are that it is somewhat narrow in
> that only "Brahma's chosen ones" undergo it,and that a lot of the true
> meaning has been lost through adulterations over he ages( like pancha
> gabba prayaschitta,then you do not see the sun for three days because
> supposedly the sun god is the god of the sudras,that's crap)
Is this the justification? If so, then I agree it's crap. I was told
that I was not allowed to see the sun so that I could appreciate it's
importance to life, and this was done by tradition. I was not told that it
is a "Sudra god". I felt good about my poita until I read this...
> --
> Robin Chatterjee
[web pages deleted]
__________________________________________________________________________
Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay
sapt...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu
"What form does caste have?
I have never seen it, brother, with these eyes of mine"
-- Baul Lalon Phakin (1774-1890)
Indranil
Apratim Sarkar (asa...@bu.edu) wrote:
: Indranil (dgu...@buphy.bu.edu) wrote:
Parle mondo hoto na. Shobai ki ar tomar moto gotro-bhagyo niye jonmay?
Nam gotro paltabar byepare meyerai egiye achhe.
Sharmila-ke dakho. Biyer age chhilen "Kunda"! Biye kore
"Mukherjee". Baper baDir lokera ki hingshe korchhe onake bhabo!
IDG
Apratim Sarkar
Indranil (dgu...@buphy.bu.edu) wrote:
: : : I had mine when I was 24 and getting
: : : married.
: : Bamun'r meye'ke biye kore gotro'o change korle naki?
: Parle mondo hoto na. Shobai ki ar tomar moto gotro-bhagyo niye jonmay?
Ami to tomake kotobar bolechhi Indranil janmo manush'r haat'e
noy, bodyi to ki hoyechhe? Ta bole ki ar ami tomar haat'r tinned
jalfrezi khabo na? Bodyi'der e complex je kobe jabe? Shunchhi
onek bodyi chhele naki bamun'r meye biye kore podobi paltano'r
kotha'o bhabchhen.
: Nam gotro paltabar byepare meyerai egiye achhe.
: Sharmila-ke dakho. Biyer age chhilen "Kunda"! Biye kore
: "Mukherjee". Baper baDir lokera ki hingshe korchhe onake bhabo!
Kunda, na Kundu?
: IDG
Apratim.
Indranil
c0ba...@capella.physics.louisville.edu
In article <5g4ff5$g...@news.bu.edu>,
Ki koreyi ba aar bolben bolun? E duto padobiyi je DasGupta'r
theke better!
(Indrani ba Soumyo eta podish/podben na, please)
Chaitali
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Anindya Ghoshal
Apratim Sarkar (asa...@bu.edu) wrote:
: : Nam gotro paltabar byepare meyerai egiye achhe.
: : Sharmila-ke dakho. Biyer age chhilen "Kunda"! Biye kore
: : "Mukherjee". Baper baDir lokera ki hingshe korchhe onake bhabo!
: Kunda, na Kundu?
ota "gunda" noito?? ;-)
: : IDG
: Apratim.
Anindo.
--
email address: agho...@eng2.uconn.edu
Life is a series of stochastic errors.
Anindya Ghoshal
Indranil (dgu...@buphy.bu.edu) wrote:
: Saptarshi Bandyopadhyay (sapt...@cehpx34.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: : Might I suggest that you missed out on the *true* experience? There's
: : nothing like seeing the sun for the first time in 3 days to foster
: : appreciation for the delicate balance of life and its worth. There is
: : nothing like sacrificing an object of vanity (your hair) as the purohit
: : speaks the mantra (written by those who came before you) to solidify your
: : position in the world as a seeker of truth and spiritual fulfillment.
: : There is a LOT of symbolism in the poita which is better *experienced*
: : than *bought*. It is one of the true "coming of age ceremonies" that is
: : left in the world. Now that you have your poita, might I suggest that you
: : take some time to contemplate its significance to you? And if you find it
: : meaningless, then please re-do the ceremony in spirit, if not in deed.
Well Saptarshi I missed your first posting....I've full respect for your
feelings about Poite..but here's my POV: when my elder brother and I
were really small kids (something like 7-8 years old)..our best friend
Bilu (Rintu cheney okey bhalo kore..because we used to live in the
same apartment complex..) had his poite and he was like few years older
than us. Incredibly when all friends were around him he had his face
covered totally..as the night passed and the friends dispersed, Bilu
removed his cover and started talking to us (my bro. and me)..when
we enquired why he had his cover on before..he couldn't answer but only
repeated that he was told to do so..Mashima later came in and explained
since we are Brahmins it is ok for him to remove his cover from face..and
earlier he couldn't because there were non-Brahmins around..and it is
rule that one has to observe during this poite..well for us it was a
great shock of our lives..unfortunately I cannot give more details
of this whole incident as you see we are very close families and many of
our friends and our parents' friends might be reading this..But that
was such a degrading rule for us to bear with that we brothers immediately
decided not having to do anything with such a ritual. Till date after that
all our younger cousin brothers had followed our suit and poite is not
performed in our generation anymore...my dad had a different reason to
turn in his poite to the River Ganges at Benaras in his teens....well
at the age of 13 he had lost most of his family, thanks to religious
blindess that crept into human lives, humanity took a back-seat...and
the country was partitioned.
What is the use of such religions which kills and divides people and
blinds them in hatred..he surmised then ...well you see each of us
have a view on Poite depending how our lives taught us to see it..
And by_and_large it also reflects how we view our religious traditions..
: Seeing the sun after 3 days? Hmmm...if that is what you need to make it
: a day then visit Boston in winter. People say, it was seen over the
: Soldiers Field road one afternoon in January. Ever since, I have been
: making a detour through that area with a binocular in the glove
: compartment.
: Most of my friends who had poite, had it when they were 8 or 9 years
: old. Admittedly, long before they really came of age in sweaty, restless
: nights with palpitating hearts. I had mine when I was 24 and getting
: married. Wore it proudly for 48 hours after which it started getting in
: the way of more sportful things.
: IDG
rgds,
Anindya.