Question about the meaning of a Tagore song.
sayan bhattacharyya
I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
that I am totally confused by the following lines:
je more phirabe onadore,
je more Dakibe kachhe,
tahar premer bedonay
amar mulyo aachhe
Not really translatable, but I'll try:
she who will spurn me,
she who will bid me near,
in her love's sorrow
I am valued
I am confused on the following points.
1) Is the person spoken of in the first line and that spoken of
in the second line, the same person, are they two different
persons?
2) In the third line, why is the sorrow called "_her_" sorrow?
If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
(onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
Comments?
Apratim Sarkar
bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
Thank you very much, Sayan, for posting these lines! Puro gaan'ta post
korbe? Bhalo mone nei, gungun korte gele keno ke jane Purano janiya
cheyo na amare eta mone poRe jachchhe.
Apratim.
--
Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
- Arun Kumar Sarkar.
Zunaid Kazi
In article <54qnip$6...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>
>I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
>
>
> she who will spurn me,
> she who will bid me near,
> in her love's sorrow
> I am valued
>
>I am confused on the following points.
All comments are IMHO.
>1) Is the person spoken of in the first line and that spoken of
> in the second line, the same person, are they two different
> persons?
It appears to me that lines one and two are referring to the same
person. Makes more sense in the context of the song in general and
the "tahar" in the third line specifically.
>2) In the third line, why is the sorrow called "_her_" sorrow?
> If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
> lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
> (onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
> sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
> her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
> wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
I parse the phrase as _tahar premer_ _bedonay_ (emphasis mine).
Where "tahar prame" seems to me "love for her". I would pass it off
to poetic license for the mismatch of the semantics and syntax. Unrequited
love has a long and wondrous tradition in Bangla gaan and literature.
Which reminds me of Sunil's "byartho prem" kobita. I tried my hand at
translating it:
Unrequited Love
Each urequited love fills me with new pride
I stand taller as a man
Pain permeates every cell of my body
Away from humanity
I walk in slow steps
An unknown road
I cannot stand the sight of a succesful man
I buy morsels for a street mongrel
Cigarettes for a rickshaw puller
A blind man's cane
Falls at my feet
I am imbued with infinite generousity
I feel closer to the world
For having been turned away
I leave my home
In freshly laundered garb
My clean shaven face
I myself caress
In secret
I am a clean man
My body is free of
Even an iota of dirt
The inspiration of envy shines as an halo
Around my head
I see it
Even if no one else does
Dejection brings a subtle smile to my lips
I step carefully
So as not to strike the ground
I am not to cause anyone pain
Bangla transliteration of the original
--------------------------------------
(My transliteration schema can be persued at
http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bangladesh/bd_bhasha.html)
bartho prem
-----------
shuneel gongopAdhoy
protiTi bartho premi AmAke notun awhonkAr dae
Ami mAnush hishebe iktu lombA hoe uThi
du:kho AmAr mAthAr chool theke pAer Angul porjonto
chorie jAe
Ami shomosto mAnusher theke AlAdA hoe ak
awcena rAstA die dheere pAe
he(n)Te jAi
sharthok mAnushder Aro chai mukh AmAr shojho hae na
Ami pather kukurke biskuT kine dei
rickshawAlA ke dei sigareT
andho mAnusher shAdA laThi AmAr pAer kAche
khoshe pare
AmAr du hAt bhorti aDhel daeA, AmAke keu
firie diechhe bole goTA duniATAke
mone hae khub Apon
Ami bAri theke berui notun kAcha
pyant shArT pore
AmAr shoddo dAri kAmano nawrom mukh-khAnike
Ami nijei Ador kori
khoob gopone
Ami akjon porichonno mAnush
AmAr shorbAnge kothau
ektuo moilA nei
ahonkArer protibha jyotribaloy hoe thAke AmAr
mAthAr pichone
Ar keu dekhuk ki nAi dekhuk
Ami Thik Ter pAi
obhimAn AmAr oshThe ene dae snigdho hAsh-sho
Ami amon bhAbe pA pheli jeno mATir bukeo
AghAt nA lAge
AmAr to kAruke du:kho debAr kothA nei
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Zunaid Kazi ka...@asel.udel.edu (or @cis or @strauss)
CompSci & Robotics http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/
ASEL http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bangladesh/
Mohammad Harunuzzaman
In article <54qnip$6...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>
>I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
>
>Not really translatable, but I'll try:
>
> she who will spurn me,
> she who will bid me near,
> in her love's sorrow
> I am valued
>
>I am confused on the following points.
>
> in the second line, the same person, are they two different
> persons?
>
> If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
> lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
> (onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
> sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
> her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
> wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
>
>>
I will give it a try.
1) It is most likely the same person. Tagore is well-known for
juxtaposing opposites. I read somewhere that Tagore often tried to
articulate the theme of coexisting dual essences that supposedly
pervades the universe and the human condition. Please refer to
other such dual pairs as "hashi kanna", "bhalo manda" and "nache
jiban nache mrittu" in the song that begins with "momo chitte."
In this particular poem, Tagore probably references a common
human exprience. It is not unusual for a lover to alternately invite
and spurn a loved one. Love, like many other human emotions, is
neither fixed nor pure, and does have many nuances. More on this in the
next paragraph.
2) It could be either the first or the second person. It could be the
first person if you consider love to be both a joyful and excrutiating
experience. It could also be the second person for the reasons you
discussed. One of the beauties of Tagore's poetry is that it not only
plays on dual themes but that often it is done with the intent of
shrouding the meaning with some mystery.
Do you agree? Thanks for providing an opportunity to discuss something
other than politics. It was getting tiresome. Best regards.
M. Harun uz Zaman, Ph.D.
The Ohio State University
Indrani DasGupta
sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
Eta "je" hobe..."se" na.
> ("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
> that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
>
> Not really translatable, but I'll try:
>
> she who will spurn me,
> she who will bid me near,
> in her love's sorrow
> I am valued
>
> I am confused on the following points.
>
> 1) Is the person spoken of in the first line and that spoken of
> in the second line, the same person, are they two different
> persons?
Mon-e to hoy akjon-er kotha-i. "Tahar" achhe na?
>
> 2) In the third line, why is the sorrow called "_her_" sorrow?
> If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
> lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
> (onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
> sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
> her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
> wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
Er maane gaan-ti-r dwitio line-ei paowa jaay.
Je chhilo amaar shWoponocharinee...
Taare bujhite paarini, taare bujhite paarini.
The entire song is imbued with a sense of guilt, loss and self-pity. The
speaker was not "spurned" without reason.
>
> Comments?
Indrani.
Supratik Das
On 25 Oct 1996, sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
> she who will spurn me,
> she who will bid me near,
> in her love's sorrow
> I am valued
> Comments?
Prothomoto 'she' babohar korata thik noy karon ekhane subject premika
nao hote paren, bhogoban ba paramatma hote paren. Ekhane mul object holo
sei subjecter prem jeta du rokom bhabe prokash pete pare 1) je more
phirabe onadore 2) je more dakibe kache. Jokhon se/tini dure soriye
dicchey/dicchen tokhon ta tar obhiman (premika hole) ba khed (poromatma
hole) prokash korche/korchen jar utpotti kobir proti tar prem thekei. Ei
durokom obhibaktitei subjecter prem prokash pacchey kintu du rokom bhabe.
Je bhabei sei bhaab obhibakto hok ta kobi ke bar bar mone korachey je
subjecter (premikar/poromatmar) kache kobir mulyo achey orthat kobi aar
subjecter (premika/poromatmar) modhey je premer bondhon taar mulyo achey.
Supratik
Kaberi Chakrabarty
In article <32714C...@american.edu>, Indrani DasGupta
<id2...@american.edu> wrote:
> sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
> >
> > I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
> > ("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
> > that I am totally confused by the following lines:
> >
> > je more phirabe onadore,
> > je more Dakibe kachhe,
> > tahar premer bedonay
> > amar mulyo aachhe
> >
> > Not really translatable, but I'll try:
> >
> > she who will spurn me,
> > she who will bid me near,
> > in her love's sorrow
> > I am valued
My mother's opinion:
The person from the first line and the person from the second line are the same.
The speaker feels honored even to be spurned by such a person; his value
as a person is defined by her rejection.
--
_______________________/--\_________
/|\ | / /| /| |
/ | \ | / / | / | |
\ | | \ \ | \ | |
\| | \ \| \| |
*
sayan bhattacharyya
Kaberi Chakrabarty <kabe...@starnetinc.com> wrote:
>The speaker feels honored even to be spurned by such a person; his value
>as a person is defined by her rejection.
Interesting idea. Maybe if I apply to IBM for a job and get rejected, I
should put a line in my resume saying "IBM rejected me" to prove how
valuable I am :-)
Srabani Banerjee
Supratik Das writes:
>On 25 Oct 1996, sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>> je more phirabe onadore,
>> je more Dakibe kachhe,
>> tahar premer bedonay
>> amar mulyo aachhe
>
>> she who will spurn me,
>> she who will bid me near,
>> in her love's sorrow
>> I am valued
>
>> Comments?
>
>
>Prothomoto 'she' babohar korata thik noy karon ekhane subject premika
>nao hote paren, bhogoban ba paramatma hote paren.
Supratik-babu, everytime you open your mouth, you keep digging
bigger holes for yorself. Why don't you read `Mayar Khela' and
tell us how you conclude `bhogoban ba paramatma hote paren'.
Srabani
mbho...@aardvark.ou.edu
In article <54th3p$q...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, BANE...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Srabani Banerjee) writes:
> Indrani writes:
>
>>sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>>>
>>> I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>>
>>
>>> that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>>>
>>> je more Dakibe kachhe,
>>> tahar premer bedonay
>>> amar mulyo aachhe
>>>
>>>
>>> she who will bid me near,
>>> in her love's sorrow
>>> I am valued
>>>
Most of the confusion arose due to some critical errors
in the original posting. Unless I have a misprinted
version of "Gitobitan" --the song goes differently than
written above. The meaning becomes clearer if it is read
in context : it is in the form of a reply by the character,
Amar in Mayar Khela in response to queries from Shanta.
The song goes like this :
Je chhilo amar swapanocharinee
tarey bujhitey parini
din choley gechhey kh(n)ujitey kh(n0ujitey.
ke more firabey onadorey
ke more dakibey kachhey
kahar premer bedonai---amaar mulya achhey--
a nirontar shongshoyey aar parine jujhitey,
tomarei shudhu perechhi bujhitey.
Change of 'je' to 'ke' makes all the diffrence.
Now all can try their skills in translation once again.
Best wishes,
Bilayet Hossain.
>>>
>>> 1) Is the person spoken of in the first line and that spoken of
>>> in the second line, the same person, are they two different
>>> persons?
>>
>>Mon-e to hoy akjon-er kotha-i. "Tahar" achhe na?
>>
>>>
>>> 2) In the third line, why is the sorrow called "_her_" sorrow?
>>> If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
>>> lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
>>> (onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
>>> sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
>>> her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
>>> wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
>>
>>Er maane gaan-ti-r dwitio line-ei paowa jaay.
>>
>> Je chhilo amaar shWoponocharinee...
>> Taare bujhite paarini, taare bujhite paarini.
>>
>>The entire song is imbued with a sense of guilt, loss and self-pity. The
>>speaker was not "spurned" without reason.
>
> 1. Are you sure the `shwoponocharinee' of the first line is the
> same person as the one in the lines that Sayan quotes?
>
> 2. Haven't heard the song for a long time, so I'm probably wrong,
> but somehow I keep feeling those lines were actually `ke more phirabe
> onadore/ke more dakibe kachhe/kahar premer...'Especially because the
> next line goes `e nirontor-o shongshoy ar pari ne jujhite...'
> Somebody with a Geetobitan?
>
>
>
> Srabani
Srabani Banerjee
Indrani writes:
>sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>>
>> I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>
>Eta "je" hobe..."se" na.
>
>> ("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>> that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>>
>> je more phirabe onadore,
>> je more Dakibe kachhe,
>> tahar premer bedonay
>> amar mulyo aachhe
>>
>> Not really translatable, but I'll try:
>>
>> she who will spurn me,
>> she who will bid me near,
>> in her love's sorrow
>> I am valued
>>
>> I am confused on the following points.
>>
sayan bhattacharyya
>Supratik Das writes:
>>Prothomoto 'she' babohar korata thik noy karon ekhane subject premika
>>nao hote paren, bhogoban ba paramatma hote paren.
The feminine "swoponocharinee" (note: not the masculine "swoponocharee")
in the first line justifies the usage of "she" in the translation.
sayan bhattacharyya
Kaberi Chakrabarty <kabe...@starnetinc.com> wrote:
>I seem to remember an anecdote about Indians (and others?) who would put a
>line on their resumes or letters or something, about "Oxon, failed".
>Better to have failed from Oxford than to have graduated from some other
>college, I guess.
eTa oboshyo THik-i bolechhen | bangla khoborer kagojer "patro chai"/"patree
chai" stombhe "B.A. onutteerna" jatio bisheshon pani-prarthee-r gourob-byanjok
tokma hisabe shobha pete dekhechhi ekadhikbar :-)
Indrani DasGupta
Srabani likhechhe:
Guliye dish na! Ota "kahar" na "tahar"? Thhik kore bol.
Sayan,
puro gaan-ta post koro, please. Amaar kachhe shudhu "puja"-r section-ta
achhe. Puro Geetobitaan-ta nei. Khub oshowasti hochchhe, bishesh kore
Srabani-r khNochani-tar por.
Indrani.
Kaberi Chakrabarty
In article <54ta47$k...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu
(sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
I seem to remember an anecdote about Indians (and others?) who would put a
line on their resumes or letters or something, about "Oxon, failed".
Better to have failed from Oxford than to have graduated from some other
college, I guess.
sayan bhattacharyya
Srabani Banerjee <BANE...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>2. Haven't heard the song for a long time, so I'm probably wrong,
> but somehow I keep feeling those lines were actually `ke more phirabe
> onadore/ke more dakibe kachhe/kahar premer...'Especially because the
> next line goes `e nirontor-o shongshoy ar pari ne jujhite...'
> Somebody with a Geetobitan?
That may be true. I was transcribing based on what I heard, and I may have
heard wrongly. If Srabani is right, this explains everything very neatly.
Kaberi Chakrabarty
In article <54tjtj$6...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
> Kaberi Chakrabarty <kabe...@starnetinc.com> wrote:
>
> >I seem to remember an anecdote about Indians (and others?) who would put a
> >line on their resumes or letters or something, about "Oxon, failed".
> >Better to have failed from Oxford than to have graduated from some other
> >college, I guess.
>
> eTa oboshyo THik-i bolechhen | bangla khoborer kagojer "patro chai"/"patree
> chai" stombhe "B.A. onutteerna" jatio bisheshon pani-prarthee-r gourob-byanjok
> tokma hisabe shobha pete dekhechhi ekadhikbar :-)
There are way too many unfamiliar words here for me to figure out what's
going on. After B. A. , approximately 70% of the words are unknown to
me.:-(
Chaitali Basu
sayan bhattacharyya (bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
Yes Srabani is right.
Ke more firabe onadore Ke more dakibe kachhe
Kahar premer bedonaye amar mulyo achhe
E nirontoro shongshoye paari ne jujhite
Ami tomareyi perechhi bujhite.
Eta Mayarkhelar gaan. Amar-er golaye. Promoda-ke
bujhte na pere Shanta'r kachhe fire eshe gaowa.
So it means two different people.
Chaitali
:
:
:
:
:
Chaitali Basu
Indrani DasGupta (id2...@american.edu) wrote:
: Je chhilo amaar shWoponocharinee...
: Taare bujhite paarini, taare bujhite paarini.
:
: The entire song is imbued with a sense of guilt, loss and self-pity. The
: speaker was not "spurned" without reason.
Mayar khela puro bhule gachho. Promoda konodin accept-i koreni Amar-ke.
So no question of Amar not being "spurned without reason". Aar guilt
ba self-pity dekhle kothaye? Amar was attracted to the more eloquent
Promoda and he had refused Shanta. After not being accepted by
Promoda, he comes back to Shanta. Shekhane he sings this song.
: Indrani.
Chaitali
sayan bhattacharyya
In article <1996Oct26.174425.1@ucsvax>, <mbho...@aardvark.ou.edu> wrote:
> The song goes like this :
>
> Je chhilo amar swapanocharinee
> tarey bujhitey parini
> din choley gechhey kh(n)ujitey kh(n0ujitey.
>
> ke more firabey onadorey
> ke more dakibey kachhey
> kahar premer bedonai---amaar mulya achhey--
> a nirontar shongshoyey aar parine jujhitey,
> tomarei shudhu perechhi bujhitey.
Thanks for posting the correct words and the context. Indeed, this
clears up the confusion.
-Sayan.
Indrani DasGupta
Kaberi Chakrabarty wrote:
>
> In article <54tjtj$6...@news.eecs.umich.edu>,
> bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
>
> > Kaberi Chakrabarty <kabe...@starnetinc.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I seem to remember an anecdote about Indians (and others?) who would put a
> > >line on their resumes or letters or something, about "Oxon, failed".
> > >Better to have failed from Oxford than to have graduated from some other
> > >college, I guess.
> >
> > eTa oboshyo THik-i bolechhen | bangla khoborer kagojer "patro chai"/"patree
> > chai" stombhe "B.A. onutteerna" jatio bisheshon pani-prarthee-r gourob-byanjok
> > tokma hisabe shobha pete dekhechhi ekadhikbar :-)
>
> There are way too many unfamiliar words here for me to figure out what's
> going on. After B. A. , approximately 70% of the words are unknown to
> me.:-(
Kaberi, this means essentially what was implied earlier...that in the
matrimonial columns of newspapers in India, many a time, the label,
"B.A...failed", is, in effect, used as an accomplishment.
Did you ever read Sukumar Ray?
"Unishti-baar matrik-e shey ghaayel hoye thhamlo sheshe" ? :)
Indrani.
ps. Sayan, that was a nasty piece of leg-pulling, I am sorry to say.
I expected better of you.
Indrani DasGupta
Maya-r Khela-ta amaar konodin bhallagto na. Boddo pyan-pyane.
Kintu tahole tumi bolchho je ei gaan-ta amaader shudhu matro "Mayar
Khela"-r context-ei nite hobe?
Tahole Sambit-er explanation (puro gaan-ta quote kore - simplistic bole
duyo diyechhilam) mene nilaam. Puro gaan-ta poDlam. Just poDlam. Maya-r
Khela jodi bhule jaao...this reading yields a much richer meaning. I was
hoping for a deeper, more complex meaning in terms of "relationships".
And, I still get that from the song, if you take the "kahar" in the first
stanza and the "tumi" in the second to be one and same person.
Indrani.
Sambit Basu
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> writes:
>On 25 Oct 1996, sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>> je more phirabe onadore,
>> je more Dakibe kachhe,
>> tahar premer bedonay
>> amar mulyo aachhe
>> Comments?
>Prothomoto 'she' babohar korata thik noy karon ekhane subject premika
>nao hote paren, bhogoban ba paramatma hote paren. Ekhane mul object holo
>sei subjecter prem jeta du rokom bhabe prokash pete pare 1) je more
>phirabe onadore 2) je more dakibe kache. Jokhon se/tini dure soriye
>dicchey/dicchen tokhon ta tar obhiman (premika hole) ba khed (poromatma
>hole) prokash korche/korchen jar utpotti kobir proti tar prem thekei. Ei
>durokom obhibaktitei subjecter prem prokash pacchey kintu du rokom bhabe.
>Je bhabei sei bhaab obhibakto hok ta kobi ke bar bar mone korachey je
>subjecter (premikar/poromatmar) kache kobir mulyo achey orthat kobi aar
>subjecter (premika/poromatmar) modhey je premer bondhon taar mulyo achey.
Madhyomik-e bhaab-shomproshaaron-e koto peyechhilen
bhaidi?
Sambit
sayan bhattacharyya
Indrani DasGupta <id2...@american.edu> wrote:
>Kintu tahole tumi bolchho je ei gaan-ta amaader shudhu matro "Mayar
>Khela"-r context-ei nite hobe?
>
>gaan-ta poDlam. Just poDlam. Maya-r
>Khela jodi bhule jaao...this reading yields a much richer meaning. I was
>hoping for a deeper, more complex meaning in terms of "relationships".
>And, I still get that from the song, if you take the "kahar" in the first
>stanza and the "tumi" in the second to be one and same person.
I agree with Indrani. When a creative artist writes something, there is
much more import to it than what the immediate context provides. This is
all the more true of someone as rich and complex as Tagore. Besides, the
songs in the geeti-naTyos and nrtya-naTyos were often autonomous songs
(note their inclusion, independent of context, in geetobitan and the like)
and it is perfectly admissible, IMHO, to consider them in isolation.
Incidentally, I would hazard a guess that Kadambari Devi's suicide may
be casting a shadow in this song, as it does in many of Tagore's writings.
S Bhattacharyya
bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>that I am totally confused by the following lines:
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
^^^^^
Are you sure this is je and not "shhe" ? If it is the latter,
it makes perfect sense. There are many of us who are most attracted to
those who turn us away, and "tahar" in the next line is simply "mine
for her", not her's.
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
>Not really translatable, but I'll try:
> she who will spurn me,
> she who will bid me near,
> in her love's sorrow
> I am valued
>
Ok, here goes an alternate version
she who spurn's me,
bid's me near,
And my sorrow for her love,
I value.
(the stupid romantic notion of
unrequited love that the poets are always eulogising!)
Hmmm... not as elegant, but perhaps more meaningful. Speaking
for myself, I a can see it all too well
Santanu "Glutton for Punishment" Bhattacharyya :-)
>I am confused on the following points.
>1) Is the person spoken of in the first line and that spoken of
> in the second line, the same person, are they two different
> persons?
>2) In the third line, why is the sorrow called "_her_" sorrow?
> If anyone has reason to feel sorry, it is the speaker, not the
> lady, right? Because it is the speaker who has been spurned
> (onadore pherot gechhen), not the lady! Or is "her love's
> sorrow" supposed to mean "the sorrow of the love I have for
> her" ? In that case, it would make sense, but then the syntax
> wouldn't seem to match the semantics.
>Comments?
Chaitali Basu
Indrani DasGupta (id2...@american.edu) wrote:
: Chaitali Basu wrote:
: >
: > Mayar khela puro bhule gachho. Promoda konodin accept-i koreni Amar-ke.
: > So no question of Amar not being "spurned without reason". Aar guilt
: > ba self-pity dekhle kothaye? Amar was attracted to the more eloquent
: > Promoda and he had refused Shanta. After not being accepted by
: > Promoda, he comes back to Shanta. Shekhane he sings this song.
:
: Maya-r Khela-ta amaar konodin bhallagto na. Boddo pyan-pyane.
"pyan-pyane" bolte ki mean korchho?
: Kintu tahole tumi bolchho je ei gaan-ta amaader shudhu matro "Mayar
: Khela"-r context-ei nite hobe?
Na ta bolini. Tobe "Mayar Khela"'r context-e gaan-tar khoob sharol
straight forward maane achhe.
: Tahole Sambit-er explanation (puro gaan-ta quote kore - simplistic bole
: duyo diyechhilam) mene nilaam.
Eta kon posting refer korchho?
: Puro gaan-ta poDlam. Just poDlam. Maya-r
: Khela jodi bhule jaao...this reading yields a much richer meaning. I was
: hoping for a deeper, more complex meaning in terms of "relationships".
: And, I still get that from the song, if you take the "kahar" in the first
: stanza and the "tumi" in the second to be one and same person.
Aro ektu explicitly balo.
: Indrani.
Chaitali
Chaitali Basu
S Bhattacharyya (san...@glibm5.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: There are many of us who are most attracted to
: those who turn us away, and "tahar" in the next line is simply "mine
: for her", not her's.
Ego working too strongly?:-)
Chaitali
baid...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
sayan bhattacharyya writes:
>
>I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> amar mulyo aachhe
>
(translation deleted)
>I am confused on the following points.
>
(confusion deleted)
>
>Comments?
>
Sayan,
you got some key pronouns in the song wrong. May be the cassette is worn
out :)
The correct version goes:
je chhilo amar swapano-charini (not "se chhilo amar....")
and likewise:
ke more phirabe anador-e ke more dakibe kachhe
kahar premer bedonay amar mulyo achhe
e nirantor sangshoy ar pari ne jujhite
ogo tomarei shudhu perechhi bujhite ....
now the song is probably more self-explanatory. however, you may
read/listen to "Mayar Khela", the opera/musical/dance-drama from which
this song comes from and get a better sense of the context of the song.
(basically the story goes like this: the protagonist Amar was in love with
a more-or-less heartless but exquisite creature Promoda, and dutifully
spurns the love of Shanta, who nevertheless decides to wait for him
eternally or until he comes back, whichever earlier. He does realize his
folly in the end, which is expressed through this beautiful song.)
-Baidurya.
S Bhattacharyya
c0ba...@starbase.spd.louisville.edu (Chaitali Basu) writes:
>S Bhattacharyya (san...@glibm5.cen.uiuc.edu) wrote:
Leggo of Ego!! :-)
>Chaitali
Debashis Bhattacharya
mbho...@aardvark.ou.edu wrote:
.. deleted ...
>>>
>>>> ("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>>>> that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>>>>
>>>> je more phirabe onadore,
>>>> je more Dakibe kachhe,
>>>> tahar premer bedonay
>>>> amar mulyo aachhe
>>>>
.. deleted ...
>
> ke more firabey onadorey
> ke more dakibey kachhey
> kahar premer bedonai---amaar mulya achhey--
> a nirontar shongshoyey aar parine jujhitey,
> tomarei shudhu perechhi bujhitey.
>
Exactly, that's what I remembered, but since Sayan was listening to the song, I
got momentarily confused on the assumption that he heard right, and that my
memory was betraying me. Any way, I think the correct version is quite
self-explanatory.
Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
kabe...@starnetinc.com (Kaberi Chakrabarty) wrote:
>In article <32714C...@american.edu>, Indrani DasGupta
><id2...@american.edu> wrote:
>
>> sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>> >
>> > that I am totally confused by the following lines:
>> >
>> > je more phirabe onadore,
>> > je more Dakibe kachhe,
>> > tahar premer bedonay
>> > amar mulyo aachhe
>> >
.. deleted ...
Sayan, I'm kind of surpised. Have you never been involved with a woman? If you
have been, explanation would come to you quite naturally.
Incidentally, I'm not sure your quote (in Bengali) is quite correct, either.
Have to check -- maybe my memory is failing me.
Debashis.
Apratim Sarkar
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>Sayan, I'm kind of surpised. Have you never been involved with a woman? If you
>have been, explanation would come to you quite naturally.
Sayan'r biye'r byapare ar kichhu bolbo na bole ami protignyabaddho.
Dekhun jodi apnara kichhu paren korte.
>Debashis.
Apratim.
--
Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
- Arun Kumar Sarkar.
Samir Bhattacharya
ShubuBabu'r chaar-e bodhay ar maachh aashbe-na. Bhagyish Sayan-er
shajyo-tao paoa jaachhe!
ShbuBabu'r chaar jodi pocha ghee ar chingDi-diye toiri hoy, Sayan
toiri korechhe reetimoto 'ekaanki' diye. Chalaaki noy, ota bhori-dore
bikkiri hoi. Bishwas na hole nije khNoje kore dekhte paren. (Ar amar
jonye ektu kineo raakhben, please.)
Baki maachh-gulo edike nishchoyi aashbe. Jaabe kothay ta nahole?
...
(Sayan likhechhen):
>I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>("She who inhabited my dreams") sung by Suchitra Mitra, and I realized
>that I am totally confused by the following lines:
> je more phirabe onadore,
> je more Dakibe kachhe,
> tahar premer bedonay
> amar mulyo aachhe
...
>Comments?
Daarun chaar hoyechhe. Amar onyo gobeshonar kaaj-o kichhu hobe mone
hochhe. Swoponocharini touch-ta phata-phati!
Akhon dekhi, ShubuBabu-ke diye ja holona, sheta ekhane hoy ki!
Abar rudhho:shaas-e opekkha korchhi.
Samir
Samir Bhattacharya
Indrani likhechhe:
>sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>> I was listening to Tagore's song "se chhilo amaar swopono-charinee"
>Eta "je" hobe..."se" na.
Khub sabdhaani kintu. Sayan-er chaal dhore phelechhe.
..
>Er maane gaan-ti-r dwitio line-ei paowa jaay.
> Je chhilo amaar shWoponocharinee...
> Taare bujhite paarini, taare bujhite paarini.
Khub beshi bojhar cheshta kore laabh nei. Shob mayar khela.
>Indrani.
T-i-i-n.
Jaal-taal Thik-Thak aachhe to?
Samir
Samir Bhattacharya
>> Kaberi Chakrabarty <kabe...@starnetinc.com> wrote:
...
>Better to have failed from Oxford than to have graduated from some other
>college, I guess.
Absolutely. Even better would be not tos wim into Sayan's trap.
>--
> _______________________/--\_________
> /|\ | / /| /| |
> / | \ | / / | / | |
> \ | | \ \ | \ | |
> \| | \ \| \| |
> *
PNaach.
Ei maach-tao chhilo jantum-na.
Sambit! Sambit!!! Kothay gele jaal niye? Phyalo ebaare.
Ghate eshe tori dobalo nato?
Samir
>
Samir Bhattacharya
Srabani likhechhe:
>Indrani writes:
....
> next line goes `e nirontor-o shongshoy ar pari ne jujhite...'
Ammo na.
> Somebody with a Geetobitan?
Sambit, jaal-ta?
>Srabani
Cha-a-r.
Samir
Samir Bhattacharya
Sambit! ShubuBabu ar Sayan oNder kaajto bhaloi korechhen. Thik muhurte
tumi kothay palaale bawa?
>Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> writes:
>>On 25 Oct 1996, sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
> Sambit
Shorbonaash! Tumi jole neme poDte gele kyano?
Poi poi kore bollum... paaDe jaal hate dNadiye thako.
Ami chollum. Ar ami kichhu korte paarbo-na.
Tomra shob khela kore jao, jotokkhon na bhange.
:):):):)
Samir
PS: Sayan: E'rom obejctively kobitar rosaswadone apekkhikota-baad-ke
promaan korar jonye dhonyobaad. Samanyo chhapar bhul-tul sotteo soThik
explanation-er prachurjyo theke pranjol holo besh bypaarta.
Shobbai-ke shubhechha.
Kaberi Chakrabarty
In article <55aua7$3...@newsb.netnews.att.com>, s...@hogpa.att.com (Samir
Bhattacharya) wrote:
> > _______________________/--\_________
> > /|\ | / /| /| |
> > / | \ | / / | / | |
> > \ | | \ \ | \ | |
> > \| | \ \| \| |
> > *
>
> PNaach.
>
> Ei maach-tao chhilo jantum-na.
Amar mone hoi eita amar khubi moja lagto, judi bustepartam!
Apni nishchui janen je alada ("bait") diya alada machh ("attract") kora hobe!
> Ghate eshe tori dobalo nato?
Ummm, I'm lost again.:-(
Snehasis Ganguly
Samirbabu,
aapni sob bhetorer khobor raakhchen naki?
Tiapakhir janyo lonka pelen? Sutapdir Bagan-etey
Lal lal lonka hoey:-)
Snehasis