Origin of a few Bengali words
Gautam SenGupta
What are the origins of the following Bengali words: Janala (window),
Chabi (key) and Balti (bucket)? Any one cares to guess!
Zia Hassan
I think "balti" is a portuguese word, or perhaps its origin was portuguese.
--
Zia Hassan
zi...@iastate.edu
Skolastika
of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
Delft, The Netherlands. I suppose the word 'Kamra' came from Dutch. The
often misused European origin Indian word is 'Plus,' which ought to be
'Pliers'.
A S M ASHRAF AHMED
> This is a quiz for the Bengalis and others who love the Bengali language.
> What are the origins of the following Bengali words: Janala (window),
> Chabi (key) and Balti (bucket)? Any one cares to guess!
>
>
Portuguese I guess !
Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar
In article <4j6f03$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, skola...@aol.com (Skolastika) writes:
|> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
|> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
|> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
|> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
(n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu
Zia Hassan
>
>|> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
>|> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
>|> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
>|> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
> ^^^^^^^^^
> The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
>(n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
>It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
>--
>Pradipta Sarkar
>psa...@iastate.edu
There might be another reason why pauruti is called pauruti. During the
start of the first bakeries in Bangladesh/Bengal, the dough (mixing of
flour) was made in a huge container, inside which people with bare feet
would stump on the flour mix, to make the dough. Someone once told me that
this has been done even until the late 70s in Dhaka. Because the feet or
"pa" were used in the making of the bread or "ruti", that it is called the
"pauruti".
I know that in french "pain" (pronounced as 'pa', as you have already
explained more correctly), but you haven't mentioned how the portuguese
missionaries could have spread the french word, or if they did.
--
Zia Hassan
zi...@iastate.edu
Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar
In article <4j7s9e$o...@news.iastate.edu>, zi...@iastate.edu (Zia Hassan) writes:
|> Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar <psa...@iastate.edu> wrote:
|> >
|> >|> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
|> >|> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
|> >|> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
|> >|> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
|> > ^^^^^^^^^
|> > The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
|> >(n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
|> >It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
|> >--
|> >Pradipta Sarkar
|> >psa...@iastate.edu
|>
|> There might be another reason why pauruti is called pauruti. During the
|> start of the first bakeries in Bangladesh/Bengal, the dough (mixing of
|> flour) was made in a huge container, inside which people with bare feet
|> would stump on the flour mix, to make the dough. Someone once told me that
|> this has been done even until the late 70s in Dhaka. Because the feet or
|> "pa" were used in the making of the bread or "ruti", that it is called the
|> "pauruti".
|>
just opposite to my school. That was in late 70's and may be in early
80's as well. I remember that I stopped eating "pa(n)u ruti" (for a few
days only) after I came to know about it for the first time.
|> I know that in french "pain" (pronounced as 'pa', as you have already
|> explained more correctly), but you haven't mentioned how the portuguese
|> missionaries could have spread the french word, or if they did.
|>
|> --
|> Zia Hassan
|> zi...@iastate.edu
Zia, not necessarily all the foreign words in Bengali were spread
by the Portuguese. Dutch and French people came to Bengal as well. As a
matter of fact my hometown was under French occupation till 1950
(Yes even after 1947).
Pradipta (Chhando) Sarkar
--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu
Swagato Basumallick
kedara(b) == cadeira(P)
almari(b) == almoire(f)
bastra(b) == Vastra(d)
paadri(b) == padre(d? p?)
aro mone porle pore likhbo..
Kjetil Helstrup
|>
|> In article <4j6f03$f...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, skola...@aol.com (Skolastika) writes:
|> |> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
|> |> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
|> |> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
|> ^^^^^^^^^
|> The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
|> (n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
|> It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
|> --
|> Pradipta Sarkar
|> psa...@iastate.edu
More likely from Portuguese 'pao' with a nasal. It sounds almost exactly
as you describe the Bangla word.
Kjetil
K.M. Maniruzzaman
>
> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
> often misused European origin Indian word is 'Plus,' which ought to be
> 'Pliers'.
>
>
Kamra, I seem to remember, came from Arabic. The word 'camera'
has the same root.
Manir
ma...@okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp
ma...@asami.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp
URL: http://www.urban.rcast.u-tokyo.ac.jp/due/okabelab/manir/manir.html
[Do visit my award-winning web pages if you have time to waste]
Sutapa Chattopadhyay
|> In article <4j7n8k$n...@news.iastate.edu>, psa...@iastate.edu (Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar) writes:
|> |>
|> |> |> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
|> |> |> of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
|> |> |> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
|> |> |> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
|> |> The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
|> |> (n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
|> |> It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
|> |> --
|> |> Pradipta Sarkar
|> |> psa...@iastate.edu
|>
|> More likely from Portuguese 'pao' with a nasal. It sounds almost exactly
|> as you describe the Bangla word.
|>
|> Kjetil
Portuguese ra ranna kore onekta amader moto. Dhone-jire lonka
diye. Ekta Portuguese restaurant e giyechilaam kichudin aage. Macher jhol
khelaam, tobe tate chingDi maach o chilo bole taste ta ektu
onnorokom chilo.
--
Sutapa Chattopadhyay.
Anindya Ghoshal
: Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They also formed part of the sea pirates/dacoits and were known as 'Mog Dushyos
' in the Gangetic delta in Bengal. Some of them even found their way into
Bengali dramas and literature of last century.
: of Indianized Portugese word in Bengali and Hindi. Chabi is definitely
: one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
: of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
: Delft, The Netherlands. I suppose the word 'Kamra' came from Dutch. The
: often misused European origin Indian word is 'Plus,' which ought to be
: 'Pliers'.
anindya.
--
email address: agho...@eng2.uconn.edu
Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar
I found a few more Bengali words of foreign origin. Can you guess the languages?
1. turup
2. hartan
3. ruhitan
4. iskaban
5. dinemAr
I'll post the answers on Sunday.
--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu
Aninda S Mitra
: Skolastika (skola...@aol.com) wrote:
: : Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: They also formed part of the sea pirates/dacoits and were known as 'Mog Dushyos
Aaaah, and I guess thats how the Somalian capital, Mogadishu, its name
huh? It was, and I suppose still is, a major hangout for pirates, dacoits,
smugglers, terrorists, warlords, you name it....
Zia Hassan
I think that their origin is Farsi (Iranian Language).
--
Zia Hassan
zi...@iastate.edu
rajav
another guy, a surd to
"amar bana chooshbi" at which he got really beaten up.
wanna tell me what it means and the origins (i mean i got the general
drift..)
Mohammad A. Rahin
agho...@newsserver.uconn.edu (Anindya Ghoshal) wrote:
>Skolastika (skola...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>They also formed part of the sea pirates/dacoits and were known as 'Mog
I think you are making a mistake there. "Mogs" are from Burma, more
specifically from Arakan or neabaouts. In fact in Sandvip, an island off
Chittagong coast a village is called "Moghdhara". Sandivp was taken and ruled
by Mogs for some time. One local chieftain Dilal formed an army to drive out
the Mogs from Sandvip, they are cornered to that part of Sandvip and hence the
name "Mogdhara". On the other hand "Harmad" may have originated from (Spanish)
armada. Also I always wondered about the word "Olondas" in history books,
later found that it originated from "Hollandaise". Incidentally many from
Sandvip, mostly illiterate or very porrly educated worked as merchant sailors.
They have given some funny names to some well known places, like "Boya Biscit"
for "Bay of Bisquay", "Shinnir Shohor" for "Sydney".
- Rahin
Cyrill Muratov
: Ei proshonge aaro koyekta mone porlo -
`d' maane ki? Vastra to sanskrito shobdo.
Indranil.
Cyrill Muratov
: a bong friend (iam not really sure on that yet, read on) once told
Soumitra-babu, ghumiye porlen naki? Ekhane ektu sub-altern fundaa chai.
Indranil.
Chaitali Basu
> Skolastika (skola...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> They also formed part of the sea pirates/dacoits and were known as 'Mog Dushyos
> ' in the Gangetic delta in Bengal. Some of them even found their way into
> Bengali dramas and literature of last century.
Was there any "Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal"? I had the
impression that Bengal saw only Portugese jalodoshyu. I guess one
of the bengali literary works you are referring to is "Devi Chowdhurani"?
> anindya.
> --
> email address: agho...@eng2.uconn.edu
Chaitali
Pradipta ( Chhando ) Sarkar
: I found a few more Bengali words of foreign origin. Can you guess the language
s?
: 1. turup
: 2. hartan
: 3. ruhitan
: 4. iskaban
: 5. dinemAr
: I'll post the answers on Sunday.
: --
: Pradipta Sarkar
: psa...@iastate.edu
Here are the answers.
These are of Dutch origin :
1. turup
2. hartan
3. ruhitan
4. iskaban
The last one is of French origin :
5. dinemAr.
I have received several replies. Thanks to all of you.
Only one person (Archisman Rudra from New York University) has answered
the first four correctly.
--
Pradipta Sarkar
psa...@iastate.edu
K.M. Maniruzzaman
>
> Skolastika (skola...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> They also formed part of the sea pirates/dacoits and were known as 'Mog Dushyos
> ' in the Gangetic delta in Bengal. Some of them even found their way into
> Bengali dramas and literature of last century.
>
'Mog dosyus' were Burmese pirates, not Portuguese. The Portuguese were known in
general as 'Phiringee', which was later used to denote any Westerner. 'Harmada' (<Armada)
was a word used for Portuguese pirates.
K.M. Maniruzzaman
> >
> >|> Because of Portugese missionary's activity in Bengal, one can find scores
> >|> one. Balti may may be another one, but I am not certain. How about 'Pau'
> >|> of 'Pau Roti'? I was surprised to see the word 'Kamra' in a Hotel in
> > The Bengali word for bread is Pa(n)u ruti.
> >(n) : nasal "n". Origin of this word is in French - Pain.
> >It is pronounced as "pa(n)". Here also "n" is nasal.
>
> start of the first bakeries in Bangladesh/Bengal, the dough (mixing of
> flour) was made in a huge container, inside which people with bare feet
> would stump on the flour mix, to make the dough. Someone once told me that
> this has been done even until the late 70s in Dhaka. Because the feet or
> "pa" were used in the making of the bread or "ruti", that it is called the
> "pauruti".
>
Is this true, or just a myth?
The Japanese word for bread is 'pan', and it came into Japanese
from Portuguese.
> I know that in french "pain" (pronounced as 'pa', as you have already
> explained more correctly), but you haven't mentioned how the portuguese
> missionaries could have spread the french word, or if they did.
>
I don't know what the Portuguese word for bread is, but many words
in 'Latin European' languages are similar or common.
sayan bhattacharyya
Anindya Ghoshal <agho...@newsserver.uconn.edu> wrote:
> How about 'Pau'
> of 'Pau Roti'?
The "pau" could have come from several sources. Bread is "pain" in French,
"pan" in Spanish and "pao~" in Portuguese. Based on the phonetic similarity
the Portuguese origin seems to have been the most likely.
Some time ago a Brazilian friend of mine and I had a lot of fun by sitting
down and trying to identify words in Bengali which come from
Portuguese. Here are some that we came up with :
Bengali Portuguese English
------- ---------- -------
girja igreja church
chabi chave key
janala janela window
cha cha tea
pau-ruti pao~ bread
-Sayan.
Rajan P. Parrikar
sayan bhattacharyya <bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu> wrote:
>Some time ago a Brazilian friend of mine and I had a lot of fun by sitting
>down and trying to identify words in Bengali which come from
>Portuguese. Here are some that we came up with :
>
>Bengali Portuguese English
>------- ---------- -------
>
>girja igreja church
>chabi chave key
>janala janela window
>cha cha tea
>pau-ruti pao~ bread
It might interest some to know that each of the Portuguese words
above are also used in the mongrel bhasha (aka Konkani) too. No prizes
for guessing the connection.
Q: What is the bong word for penis? (I apologise to Sayanbabu in advance
for asking only about the male organ thereby displaying sexist behaviour).
r
Debashis Bhattacharya
>In article <4jc8r9$l...@bellboy.ucc.uconn.edu>,
>Anindya Ghoshal <agho...@newsserver.uconn.edu> wrote:
>
.. deleted ...
>
>Bengali Portuguese English
>------- ---------- -------
>
.. deleted ...
>cha cha tea
>pau-ruti pao~ bread
>
>
>
>-Sayan.
>
>
"cha"-ta holo na bodh-hoi. Its "cha" in Chinese (or is it Japanese?), and
I suspect the Portugese inherited the word from them (whichever is the right
group).
Debashis.
>
>
Skolastika
"Pau," it is a Portugese word. Someone suggested abour use of "Pa" or feet
to make "Roti", it is hopelessly bogus; it's kind of joke. Scores of
other Bangla words owe their origin to Portugese (Old Portugese). How
about "Girja"- it came from "Kirja". How about "Olondaj" bengali version
of the word "Holland Dutch". The word "Kamra" or room could be found in
Dutch language in modern days.
Ranjit Mathews USG
found their way into Indian languages. The only French word I have heard used
in an Indian language is "Madamma" (white woman) in Malayalam. In the case of
Bengal, the word could have come either from French or Portugese as the French
were in Chandernagore and the Portugese in Hoogly.
Amitabha Lahiri
Sayan Bhattacharyya wrote:
> Bengali Portuguese English
> ------- ---------- -------
> cha cha tea
Both `cha' and `tea' are chinese words. Cha is Cantonese, tea is Mandarin.
As far as I know, these two are the only two words used in all languages
for tea/cha. It is possible that tea first came to India via the Portugese
(who got it in Macau or thereabouts), it is also possible that the
Portugese got their first taste of tea in India (which would mean that
India had tea from China already).
Amitabha
--
Amitabha Lahiri MAPS University of Sussex A.La...@central.susx.ac.uk
No one else is responsible for what I say and vice versa.
Today it's the Bengalis, tomorrow it will be you.
Parvez
:'Mog dosyus' were Burmese pirates, not Portuguese. The Portuguese were known in
: general as 'Phiringee', which was later used to denote any Westerner.
Indeed Phiringee is a Farsi word that means foreigner especially
Europeans. Because Portugeese were the first to appear in Indian coast,
they were given this name.
: 'Harmada' (<Armada)
: was a word used for Portuguese pirates.
Exactly. 'Harmad' (I believe it is not Harmada) is a distorted form of
famous Spanish fleet 'Armada'. Since these pirates usually came from
Bombay, they were also called 'Bombetey'.
Joshua Pomeroy
: K.M. Maniruzzaman (ma...@okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp) wrote:
: :'Mog dosyus' were Burmese pirates, not Portuguese. The Portuguese were known in
: : general as 'Phiringee', which was later used to denote any Westerner.
: Indeed Phiringee is a Farsi word that means foreigner especially
: Europeans. Because Portugeese were the first to appear in Indian coast,
: they were given this name.
I think I read in a dictionary that the word `firangi' came from the
name `Frank' or `Franco'.
Indranil.
Raghu Seshadri
: As far as I know, these two are the only two words used in all languages
: for tea/cha. It is possible that tea first came to India via the Portugese
: (who got it in Macau or thereabouts), it is also possible that the
: Portugese got their first taste of tea in India (which would mean that
: India had tea from China already).
: Amitabha
Tea arrived in India from China long before the
birth of Christ. It is mentioned in several
pre - 2nd c buddhist texts. Wheeras the
portuguese only showed up post-16th c.
RS
Amitabha Lahiri
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
>: Amitabha
Of course. But tea may not have `stayed' in India in the interim period.
What I did not say (thought it was implied in Sayan's post) was that
Portugese is the only West European language in which the word for tea is
cha. If tea went to Europe from India rather than China, I would have
thought that a few more European languages would use the same word.
So I cannot be sanguine that the Portugese had their _first taste_ of tea
in India. :-) An altogether irrelevant point. :-)
Raghu Seshadri
: > Tea arrived in India from China long before the
: > birth of Christ. It is mentioned in several
: > pre - 2nd c buddhist texts. Wheeras the
: > portuguese only showed up post-16th c.
: Of course. But tea may not have `stayed' in India in the interim period.
That is a sharp observation, Amitabha. Your
guess is right. Tea seems to have disappeared
in the interim till it was reintroduced
in the 19th c by the British planters.
: What I did not say (thought it was implied in Sayan's post) was that
: Portugese is the only West European language in which the word for tea is
: cha. If tea went to Europe from India rather than China, I would have
: thought that a few more European languages would use the same word.
: So I cannot be sanguine that the Portugese had their _first taste_ of tea
: in India. :-) An altogether irrelevant point. :-)
Apparently the rough rule of thumb ( as explained
by a Chinese friend ) is - if a country got tea
first via land, it uses the word 'cha', and if
it got it via the sea, it uses 'the''.
The few examples I am aware of seem to bear this
out. Certainly all of northern India was accessible
by land from China - hence cha. South India
must have received Chinese ships along its long
coast - hence the' in all south Indian languages.
Britain - again by sea from south China - Tea.
Portugal is the exception that confounds.
RS
Amitabha Lahiri
Raghu Seshadri wrote:
>Amitabha writes -
>: Of course. But tea may not have `stayed' in India in the interim period.
> That is a sharp observation, Amitabha.
Did you expect any less? :-)
> Apparently the rough rule of thumb ( as explained
> by a Chinese friend ) is - if a country got tea
> first via land, it uses the word 'cha', and if
> it got it via the sea, it uses 'the''.
What is it in Russian?
> The few examples I am aware of seem to bear this
> out. Certainly all of northern India was accessible
> by land from China - hence cha. South India
> must have received Chinese ships along its long
> coast - hence the' in all south Indian languages.
> Britain - again by sea from south China - Tea.
> Portugal is the exception that confounds.
Well ... as I said, it's `cha' in Cantonese and `the/tea' in
Mandarin. And Cantonese is spoken in Southern China. The
Portugese were active in the South China Sea before the rest
of the Europeans arrived, so I was not surprised that they
picked up the Cantonese word. Whereas the other traders may
have landed somewhat further North in China (so as to avoid
clashes with the Portugese) and picked up the Mandarin word.
Anyway, this is really off-topic. :-)
Indrani DasGupta
says...
>
>
>Raghu Seshadri wrote:
>>Amitabha writes -
>
>>: Of course. But tea may not have `stayed' in India in the interim
period.
>
>> That is a sharp observation, Amitabha.
>
>Did you expect any less? :-)
>
>> Apparently the rough rule of thumb ( as explained
>> by a Chinese friend ) is - if a country got tea
>> first via land, it uses the word 'cha', and if
>> it got it via the sea, it uses 'the''.
>
>What is it in Russian?
I'm not sure about Russian...but in Serbian or Serbo-Croatian it is
'Chai.' The Russian word is probably similar. One thing, the importance
of the 'tea ceremony' in Russia and its literature is interesting.
Because, it seems that the importance and inimitability of coffee in its
many forms in Southern and South Eastern Europe was re-inforced by the
Turks. But, tea/chai seems to crop up in the unlikeliest places!
Indrani.
sg0...@gmail.com
> This is a quiz for the Bengalis and others who love the Bengali language.
> What are the origins of the following Bengali words: Janala (window),
> Chabi (key) and Balti (bucket)? Any one cares to guess!
What is the origin of the bengali word "dana" -- wings?
aakash...@gmail.com
> This is a quiz for the Bengalis and others who love the Bengali language.
> What are the origins of the following Bengali words: Janala (window),
> Chabi (key) and Balti (bucket)? Any one cares to guess!
Arya Raychaudhuri
rito...@gmail.com
> This is a quiz for the Bengalis and others who love the Bengali language.
> What are the origins of the following Bengali words: Janala (window),
> Chabi (key) and Balti (bucket)? Any one cares to guess!
Arya Raychaudhuri
shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/jspui/bitstream/10603/159796/10/10_chapter%208.pdf