Chittagong & Gay community
Zia Hassan
Zaki Wahhaj <the...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>
>> >gay/lesbian community = obnoxious ???
>Mr. Hassan wrote :
>> Yes, it is, according to the Bangladeshi culture. Looks like many of us
>> are becoming oblivious of Bangladeshi values and morals, and being driven
>> by the Western values and morals.
Zaki Wahhaj <the...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>
>gay/lesbian community is not obnoxious = Western values and morals ???
Zia Hassan's reply:
I do not wish to get in to any personal feud with anyone in SCB, so if
I've hurt anyone's feelings for whatever reasons, I apologize for that at
first.
Second, I do not see that I need to say anything about the question that
Mr. Wahhaz posed. However, I would like to clarify what I wrote earlier.
According to the Bangladeshi culture gay/lesbian community equals
obnoxious. Islam, the religion of 87% of the population condemns the gays
directly (I hope that someone who knows more, will enlighten us about
this matter). Generally people think of this practice as morally wrong
and no gays/lesbians are respected or accepted as normal people by the
society.
--
Zia Hassan
zi...@iastate.edu
Zia Hassan
>>
>> >gay/lesbian community = obnoxious ???
>>
>> Mr. Hassan wrote :
>>
>> Yes, it is, according to the Bangladeshi culture. Looks like many of us
>> are becoming oblivious of Bangladeshi values and morals, and being driven
>> by the Western values and morals.
Zaki Wahhaj <the...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>>
>Now I write :
>
>Nothing western about the concept that all men and women are created equal.
Zaki
Please, read the other follow up I posted. Anyway, I don't quite see
where or how, what you said is relevant to what I said earlier. You now
seem to be talking about the equality of gender, whereas I was talking
about the Bangladeshi values and morality, which certainly are very
different from that of the West.
--
Zia Hassan
zi...@iastate.edu
sayan bhattacharyya
>
>According to the Bangladeshi culture gay/lesbian community equals
>obnoxious.
If this is true, then this is a defect of Bangladeshi culture which needs
to be rectified through education.
>Islam, the religion of 87% of the population condemns the gays
>directly (I hope that someone who knows more, will enlighten us about
>this matter).
Is Bangladesh an Islamic nation? Should it be one?
>Generally people think of this practice as morally wrong
~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
Speak for yourself, not for others.
>and no gays/lesbians are respected or accepted as normal people by the
>society.
Such a society is badly in need of education and reform, then.
In my own society (Bengali Hindu society) burning of widows once used
to be "accepted as normal". By your logic, then, this practice should
have continued? (after all, most people did not think it morally wrong...)
-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
>Zaki Wahhaj <the...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Nothing western about the concept that all men and women are created equal.
>
>
>where or how, what you said is relevant to what I said earlier. You now
>seem to be talking about the equality of gender, whereas I was talking
>about the Bangladeshi values and morality, which certainly are very
>different from that of the West.
Zia Hassan doesn't get it.
"All men and women are equal" does not ONLY mean that men and women
are equal. It means that all HUMAN BEINGS are equal. From which it
follows that all men and women are equally worthy of respect
irrespective of sexual orientation, because sexual orientation has
nothing to do with being or not being a human being.
And this is not a "western" value. It is (or should be) a universal
human value. As a matter of fact many in the West (e.g. the "religious"
Right and the supporters of Pat Buchanan, who are westerners, disagree
with me and agree with you).
-Sayan Bhattacharyya.
sayan bhattacharyya
>
>Islam, the religion of 87% of the population condemns the gays
Should Bangladesh be a theocratic state then? Is this what you are
suggesting?
-Sayan.
Masud Rahman
Yes, Bangladesh better be an Islamic state and prosecute the gay people...untillthen Bangladeshis (Muslims in particular) will keep condemning the homosexual
behavior even if it is distastefull to you.
-Masud
Hasan M Jamil
>
> In article <4kv3g2$d...@news.iastate.edu>, Zia Hassan <zi...@iastate.edu> wrote:
> >
> >obnoxious.
>
> If this is true, then this is a defect of Bangladeshi culture which needs
> to be rectified through education.
Watch out! My modern friends may disagree with you. It is possible
to view that the so called education is nothing but supresseing
(opression) ones sexual bias and preference to which he/she has
a god given right. Let me think about it a bit more and come up
with a brilliant suggestion :-)
- Jamil.
Hasan M Jamil
>
> Yes, Bangladesh better be an Islamic state and prosecute the gay people...untillthen Bangladeshis (Muslims in particular) will keep condemning the homosexual
> behavior even if it is distastefull to you.
Oh my god!! Why do you think Bangladesh should be an islamic state?
Under Jamaat/Shibir rule?
As for killing those gay and lesbians: Do you know most islamic
countries have so many gay and lesbians that if they have to kill all
of them, Bangladesh will have to export some of her people to run
business there. Good for us though. Islamic states? Makes me lough!!
- Jamil.
Too Long
the homosexual groups are coming of age. We Bengalis need to lighten
up!
zeeshan hasan
>In article <4kv3g2$d...@news.iastate.edu>, Zia Hassan <zi...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>>this matter).
>
>Is Bangladesh an Islamic nation? Should it be one?
Reality is that democracy = will of the people.
If the people collectively believe that homosexuality
is wrong, it is natural that homosexuals will face
arbitrary legal and social barriers.
The only way a situation like this can change in the
long term is if a brand of Islam which is more
tolerant of homosexuality spreads among the majority.
In the absence of such widespread tolerance, your
question as to whether Bangladesh should be an
"Islamic State" means little. If the state tries
to enforce pro-homosexual legislation (or any other
legislation that seems un-Islamic) before the people
are willing to accept it, the only result will be
social unrest. And probably few real changes on the
ground, because social stigma will remain regardless
of changes in the law.
>>Generally people think of this practice as morally wrong
> ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
>Speak for yourself, not for others.
His statement is perfectly accurate. It is only a small
proportion of the Westernized elite who would be at all
supportive of gay rights back home.
>>and no gays/lesbians are respected or accepted as normal people by the
>>society.
>
>Such a society is badly in need of education and reform, then.
In your opinion. The greater population is simply
exercizing its right to freedom of religious belief
and values. As it happens, you don't agree with this
particular religious belief.
farewell,
zeeshan
sayan bhattacharyya
zeeshan hasan <zee...@ksg1.harvard.edu> wrote:
>If the state tries
>to enforce pro-homosexual legislation (or any other
>legislation that seems un-Islamic) before the people
>are willing to accept it, the only result will be
>social unrest. And probably few real changes on the
>ground, because social stigma will remain regardless
>of changes in the law.
>
True. Note that this is why in my post I stressed education,
not legislation.
>>>Generally people think of this practice as morally wrong
>> ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
>>Speak for yourself, not for others.
>
>His statement is perfectly accurate.
Agreed. I have already apologized to him for using this sentence.
>It is only a small
>proportion of the Westernized elite who would be at all
>supportive of gay rights back home.
At present, yes. However, that does not mean that this state
of affairs can never change through education. I agree however
that whether such education ought to be a priority is a different
question (as there are many other existent social problems other
than homophobia which arguably need to be tackled sooner).
Incidentally, although at the present moment there may be a
correlation between "westernization" and elite status with
tolerance towards gays and lesbians, in principle there is
no a priori reason whatsoever why such tolerance should
necessarily be accompanied by westernization.
>>>and no gays/lesbians are respected or accepted as normal people by the
>>>society.
>>
>>Such a society is badly in need of education and reform, then.
>
>In your opinion. The greater population is simply
>exercizing its right to freedom of religious belief
>and values. As it happens, you don't agree with this
>particular religious belief.
Yes, and that is exactly why I am also exercizing my right to
the freedom to voice my dissent.
Masud Rahman
> Masud Rahman wrote:
> >
> > Yes, Bangladesh better be an Islamic state and prosecute the gay people...
> > untill then Bangladeshis (Muslims in particular) will keep condemning the
> > homosexual behavior even if it is distastefull to you.
>
>
> Oh my god!! Why do you think Bangladesh should be an islamic state?
> Under Jamaat/Shibir rule?
Why shouldn't I want Bangladesh be an Islamic state? If you want her to be
secular state you try for that while I motivate people towards Islam and
Islamic state.
I wish to see Bangladesh an Islamic state under true followers of Islamic
principles. If Jamaat-e-islami or Islami Chattra Shibir attains that
quality then yes they can rule, if not then there will be more capable
among others who will prevail. We are trying to bring all the islamic
thinking and practicing people together.
I believe you are another proponent of AL's politics. If AL with all
it's heinous agenda and corrupt politicians can dream to rule BD, why
can't Jamaat-e-islami do the same?
>
> As for killing those gay and lesbians: Do you know most islamic
> countries have so many gay and lesbians that if they have to kill all
> of them, Bangladesh will have to export some of her people to run
> business there. Good for us though. Islamic states? Makes me lough!!
>
> - Jamil.
>
Pardon me, which islamic countries you are talking about? As far as I
know there exist muslim majority states ruled by secular people who
doesn't implement islamic shariah. Looks like you know more about gay
and lesbian people of various countries!!
Let me make this straight, if there is an Islmic state there will not
be any gay/lesbianism. The punishment will be severe and examplry in
case of any homosexual act. So nobody will ever dare to behave or speak
about this immoral act.
I don't understand how you guys are brainwashed with this gay/lesbian
civilization, so much so that strated mockery about islamic rulings!!
The Qura'n mention so vividly about the Nation of Lut(AS) and their
destruction due to this behavior. Now you are trying to go back to that
time!! Even in this country (US) this gay/lesbinism movement didn't
started openly more than 20 yrs. The leaders didn't stand against it and
now they are facing the consequence of it. I am afraid if people don't
stand up in our country now against the proponent of this immoral behavior
our fate would be the same. And please don't call them minority, thieves
are minority also. Do you advocate thieves/robbers right too?
Riaz Osmani
From my understanding of our culture, Bangladeshi society developed
and survived over centuries based on Marriage and procreation. Islam
had a lot to do with it ofcourse. Also, poverty meant that people needed
children to depend on when they grow old. Low survival rate of children
meant that they needed more of them, so some would survive. To add
on to all this, we have a notion of making our family name last and
hence we need children. I believe that these are some of the reasons
why the entire society surrounds the notion of marriage between a
man and a woman and it is absolutely expected that we will see two or
three children born from that wed-lock.
Given this social structure where seeking out a mate, falling in love,
dating, getting married and having sex, all have an underlying reason i.e.
to procreate (give birth, which with modern technology can only happen
between a man and a woman), it should not be surprising that homosexuality
is never discussed in our country (may be somewhat these days, from what I
know from my last trip). Sexuality (heterosexuality) itself is not
discussed let alone homosexuality. I don't think there is significant
homophobia in our country, because nobody talks about the concept of
being gay like they do here in the West.
This is not to say that homosexual acts do not take place in our country.
And I'm not talking about just the close physical camaraderie between
guys or between girls, like the kind of closeness gay people in the
West wish they could enjoy in public. Most people never admit it or
never talk about it but many teenagers or older have had some sort
of experience in this. But most people however grow up and seek out their
mate of the opposite sex and procreate. That is how our culture is.
Now the point is we should not condemn people in our country or
people in other countries who want to visit our country, any of
whom might not exactly fit in to the standards of marriage that
I described above. We should not condemn just because Islam is
against homosexuality or our culture is against homosexuality. Yes
I expect a lot of flames from devout Muslims on the net after this
post and people might start calling me Kaffir and who knows, I might
get a similar honor as Taslima Nasreen got. But instead of homophobic
abuses, we should think and try to find out why Islam and our culture
is against union between two people of the same gender. I believe that
as educated people, we are free to ask these questions.
Whether many people agree or not, I believe that there are many people
even in Bangladesh who are capable of being physically attracted to
only someone of the same sex, i.e. they are gay, just like in the Western
world; homosexuality is not a Western disease. However due to the social
structure, such a union is unthinkable. Such people bow to those social
pressures and get married the traditional way. Most people don't even
question this social and personal responsibility that they have to show.
Instead of using Islamic doctrines and cultural norms to blast homosexual
acts or homosexuals themselves, we should really ask whether the purpose
of having sex is only to procreate and if it is wrong otherwise. If
homosexuals feel sexually attracted to each other and can love each other
then is it right that society forces them to get married to the opposite
gender to have children? How do feminists feel about a woman getting married
to a man and later on finding out that he is not really sexually attracted
to her. Isn't that the worst possible scenario for a girl to be in?
To follow the above reasoning one ofcourse first has to agree that
homosexuals (i.e. people who are capable of being sexually attracted
to only people of the same sex) do exist. Even if one is going to dismiss
their presence as abnormal and a social degenerate, that fact still
remains that they exist. Do they have any human rights? Due to religious
doctrines and cultural norms, we always put a blanket over anything
questionable. This is not just unique to us but is seen everywhere even
in the West where free thinking is supposedly taken for granted. If the
purpose of sex was to have children then that would make the use of
contraceptives illegal. So there must be something more to it. Instead of
bashing gays, we can ask whether such a union between a certain portion
of the population (I never said every one's gay) can fit in the social
structure. At present it will not. But we can ask whether Bangladeshi
society can adapt to accommodate this part of the population.
Flames and death-threats or comments in general are welcome.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Riaz Osmani
hos...@mwk.com
> In article <4kv3g2$d...@news.iastate.edu>, Zia Hassan <zi...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>>
>>obnoxious.
>
> If this is true, then this is a defect of Bangladeshi culture which needs
> to be rectified through education.
>
>>directly (I hope that someone who knows more, will enlighten us about
>>this matter).
>
> Is Bangladesh an Islamic nation? Should it be one?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
>
> Speak for yourself, not for others.
>
>>society.
>
> Such a society is badly in need of education and reform, then.
>
> to be "accepted as normal". By your logic, then, this practice should
> have continued? (after all, most people did not think it morally wrong...)
>
> -Sayan.
>
>
The answer is YES. More than 90% people of Bangladesh sre Muslims. It doen't
matter what you choose to call Bangladesh, it is an Islamic country. If 90%
people of Bangladesh condemn gay/lesbian activities, then it will be so. Don't
tell me you want a referrendum on this.
thanks
akhtar
Masud Rahman
You are sick!! Instead of using your brain in some good business you
are using it for propagation of homosexuality. I shouldn't have care
about your brain, it is truly yours (and what a wasteful brain!), the
reason I am responding is because you are polluting our society and SCB
as well.
You are worse than Taslima, at least she didn't advocate gay/lesbianism.
Don't worry about death threats (eedur mere hat gondho kora ucith noi),
when the natural death will come Allah will take care of you. In the mean
time, get closer to Taslima, Sayan and all other advocates of sexual
promiscuity in case you have to fight the religious fundamentalists.
If BD becomes Islamic state then wait for the severe punishment. I bet,
by that time you will change if not by Islamic techings but by the fear
of capital punisment. Am I sounding fundamentalist here??
Zaki Wahhaj
> You are sick!! Instead of using your brain in some good business you
> are using it for propagation of homosexuality...
Masud! How could you fall for Riaz's trap!!! :-)
> You are worse than Taslima, at least she didn't advocate gay/lesbianism.
Does he, though? That isn't the impression I got...
> Am I sounding fundamentalist here??
Not yet but keep working on it. There's hope yet for you. :-)
Zaki
Dasgupta
> Ami I sounding fundamentalist here ?
Aren't you ?
Shoumyo.
sayan bhattacharyya
Masud Rahman <ma...@dvorak.amd.com> wrote:
>time, get closer to Taslima, Sayan and all other advocates of sexual
>promiscuity
I am NOT a proponent of sexual promiscuity. Please furnish a post where
I have advocated sexual _promiscuity_.
What I have spoken out against, is _intolerance_ towards gays and lesbians.
The two are different things.
But then, perhaps, you do not understand the meaning of the word
"promiscuity". In that case, I will refer you to Webster's Dictionary,
and ask you to desist in future from using words whose meaning you
aren't clear about.
Hasan M Jamil
>
> > From: Hasan M Jamil <ja...@cs.concordia.ca>
>
> > Masud Rahman wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, Bangladesh better be an Islamic state and prosecute the gay people...
> > > untill then Bangladeshis (Muslims in particular) will keep condemning the
> > > homosexual behavior even if it is distastefull to you.
> >
> >
> > Oh my god!! Why do you think Bangladesh should be an islamic state?
> > Under Jamaat/Shibir rule?
>
> Why shouldn't I want Bangladesh be an Islamic state? If you want her to be
> secular state you try for that while I motivate people towards Islam and
> Islamic state.
Yes, you have every right to try that, and I wish you the best.
> I wish to see Bangladesh an Islamic state under true followers of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Wow true followers? I forgot when the last time we had true followers
of Islam in this planet (collectively speaking since we are talking
state affairs not individuals)!! Is it not true that for the want of
true followers of Islam, Islamic rule, image, etc. are going down every
day and there is no sign of revival yet? Does this mean anything?
Note that the slope is negtive all the time. This means that the ratio
of muslim and non-muslim, and again true followers versus non-true
followers, are either constant or are decreasing. How can one expect
a come back of Islam?
> Islamic
> principles. If Jamaat-e-islami or Islami Chattra Shibir attains that
> quality then yes they can rule, if not then there will be more capable
> among others who will prevail.
It is a very big IF. Their past and present do not show any positive
indication according to many. If one takes notice, he will find that
almost all the supporters of Jamaat and Shibir are those who practices
Islam in their every day life. Their support for Jamaat (if one does)
is understandable. But what percentage of non-practicing population
supports Jamaat? I guess negligible. That means, there is no one outside
the Jamaat circle who thinks Jamaat is an alternative, or can produce a
viable govt and a life style based on GOOD things. And the
non-practicing population in Bangladesh is the largest of all (they are
mostly Eid muslims, if I may say so).
> We are trying to bring all the islamic
> thinking and practicing people together.
It is a good idea, but I have my doubts about its success.
> I believe you are another proponent of AL's politics.
I can not prevent you to believe whatever you want to bilieve,
but I am not a follower of any party.
> If AL with all
> it's heinous agenda and corrupt politicians can dream to rule BD, why
> can't Jamaat-e-islami do the same?
Can't fine one for dreaming though!!
> Pardon me, which islamic countries you are talking about? As far as I
> know there exist muslim majority states ruled by secular people who
> doesn't implement islamic shariah.
Wow, self-denial!! Thinking high is good but ignoring facts and reality
isn't.
Let me make it simpler for you. Would you call Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq,
Kwait, Jordan, Syria, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc. Islamic states? Some
others like Lebanon though not solely Islamic, they have about 50%
muslim people. Why spare Bangladesh and Pakistan? Are they qualify
to be Islamic states? If they do, they all have gay and lesbian people.
A big number in each one of them. You may deny it, but I have to prove
it to you, I have to line up people in front of you, and would cost me
a hell of lot of money. But please do me a favour. Talk to native
people of any of these countries and find out the truth. I hope some
one out there can give some facts to support my claims which I gathered
from my friends from these countries. Even a die-hard Ayattollah
supporter from Iran who is never known to lie to us.
> Looks like you know more about gay
> and lesbian people of various countries!!
Is there anything wrong, or you are implying something? By the way, I
know someone from Dhaka who is gay (in the closet) and is a practicing
muslim :-) Does it tell you something?
>
> Let me make this straight, if there is an Islmic state there will not
> be any gay/lesbianism.
By law you mean? Or in reality? If you mean the latter, then you are
nowhere near the facts.
> The punishment will be severe and examplry in
> case of any homosexual act. So nobody will ever dare to behave or speak
> about this immoral act.
Yeh, like in Iraq and Saudi Arabia!! Stiiiiiill going !! Like the
energiger battery!!
> I don't understand how you guys are brainwashed with this gay/lesbian
> civilization, so much so that strated mockery about islamic rulings!!
See you are completely mistaken. No one is against Islam, at least I
am not. Although I said something that may contradict my statement. But
all I am doing is giving you the facts and reality. One should be
basing his course of action based on the reality, not hypotheses.
Then he is a sure failure.
The bottom line is, Islam is not the solution to stop homosexuality.
I don't buy it. In my view it can not be stopped. But probably, it
can be controlled in certain region by not encouraging it socially,
and educating (or forcing, you may call) young generations (the
question is how young, it may backfire) properly. I don't see much
hope in this information and invasion of cultural age. See, Z TV
already spoiled my younger brother at home, who does not want to
watch anything else but the dancing figures. An ice age may solve
the problem for quite some time. :-)
> The Qura'n mention so vividly about the Nation of Lut(AS) and their
> destruction due to this behavior. Now you are trying to go back to that
> time!!
Nobody is trying to go back to anywhere. It is going anyway!!
> Even in this country (US) this gay/lesbinism movement didn't
> started openly more than 20 yrs. The leaders didn't stand against it and
> now they are facing the consequence of it.
See, they were damn against it before. They are still now, if you did
not notice. They even discriminate people on the basis of their sexual
bias. But that did not stop the rise of this behaviour.
> I am afraid if people don't
> stand up in our country now against the proponent of this immoral behavior
> our fate would be the same.
I agree, but I see no way out.
> And please don't call them minority, thieves
> are minority also. Do you advocate thieves/robbers right too?
No matter how much you dislike it, they are minority, and thieves too,
in some way or the other.
Hope I was clear.
Thanks - Jamil.
Masud Rahman
> Subject: Re: Chittagong & Gay community
> > > Flames and death-threats or comments in general are welcome.
> > > Riaz Osmani
>
> > You are sick!! Instead of using your brain in some good business you
> > are using it for propagation of homosexuality...
> Masud! How could you fall for Riaz's trap!!! :-)
Yes, you are right. I shouldn't have fall in his trap, they must not get
any attention! Only reason Taslima, Rushdie et. al. got the attention is
that they successfully agitated us.
> > You are worse than Taslima, at least she didn't advocate gay/lesbianism.
> Does he, though? That isn't the impression I got...
>
Are you kidding? After reading his post you didn't realize that he is trying
relentlessly to make gay/lesbinism JAEZ (justify). But what's happening with
others? Can't they see the harm in these immoral behavior?
Here is my observation:
There are three catagories of people here in the net rationalizing (or silent
about) gayism.
1. Who tries to be liberal to imitate western culture and make our country
duplicate of the west thus can enjoy nudity, pornography and all other sexual
freedom.
2. Anti-Islamist (islam bashers), who takes all the opportunity to speak
against anything Islamic. Since gayism is anti-islamic that's why very subtley
portaying this as minority right and showing how britual Islam is!!
3. The people after enjoying freedom and many other nice things of west
and not seeing minority discrimination thinks everything of west is nice
and can't distinguish between goods and bads of their culture and ours.
Now you figure out Reaz, Sayan bhattachatyya, Jamil who falls in which category.
I have no sympathy for the first two but for the last one, I would request
them to stand for the goods. Don't just be disillusioned, Islam has lot goods
to offer. Take goods but not all from the west. How do you seperate between
good and evil? ofcourse by the Qura'n.
The Qura'n condemns homosexual acts, now don't tell me this behavior comes with
genes. Alcoholism, anger, cheating can come from the parents too. Would you
rationalize them?
You just need one homosexual pair to be hanged and shown in public tv and that's
it!! All those movements, rights, intellectual talks will go away forever.
> > Am I sounding fundamentalist here??
> Not yet but keep working on it. There's hope yet for you. :-)
>
> Zaki
I have been trying. Please tell me when I qualify, if you are an expert
in giving that title. BTW, Imam Khomeni as a leader I often admire. Does that
qualify?
Regards,
- Masud Rahman
Masud Rahman
Yes, indeed!! I am not good in english since you are finding my reading
disability, difficulty in understanding the meaning of words, lack of
vocabulary etc. Why don't you do me a favor? Open up an english language
class in the internet, i'll be your sincere student. Sounds good, you
english expert??
I don't have a Webster but have a Chambers, let's see what it says:
Promiscuity (n) - promiscuous sexual intercourse.
Promiscuous (adj.) - indiscriminate (now usu. referring to someone indulging
in indiscriminate sexual intercourse).
Indiscriminate (adj.) - not making distinctions, choosing at random.
In my dictionary, sex is only after marriage and with opposite gender. But
many people believe (including west) sexual relationship is with opposite
gender but marriage is not conditional. Homosexuality is a behavior where
one looses his ability to choose the right partner. It's a perversion. It's
a disease, a disability to make right distinction, a social crime. Gay and
lesbianism is a danger for any society. It's immoral.
Don't just hide behind the words, tell us your true motive.
> What I have spoken out against, is _intolerance_ towards gays and lesbians.
Oh, yeah!! intolerence towards gays and lesbians! what a compassionate!!
What is your judgment on murderers, serial killers, robbers, thieves?? They
are minority too, please write some articles on their behalf.
You know genius, you are desparately polluting our society. Take your garbage
out to some gay/lesbian newsgroup, we'll find lots of buddy there and leave us
alone with our religion, cultures and values.
Thanks,
Naeem Mohaiemen
>More than 90% people of Bangladesh sre Muslims
Others were claiming 87%.
Anyone on the net have the last census results?
>If 90% people of Bangladesh condemn gay/lesbian activities
"If".. we of course will never know, since no census has ever
been taken as to attitudes towards this issue.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
Naeem Mohaiemen
Mercer Management Consulting
1166 6th Ave, NY 10036
naeem_m...@mercermc.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Mustafizur Rahman
|>Riaz Osmani wrote:
|>> From my understanding of our culture, Bangladeshi society developed
|>> and survived over centuries based on Marriage and procreation. Islam
|>> had a lot to do with it ofcourse. Also, poverty meant that people needed
|>> This is not to say that homosexual acts do not take place in our country.
|>> Now the point is we should not condemn people in our country or
|>> people in other countries who want to visit our country, any of
|>> whom might not exactly fit in to the standards of marriage that
|>> I described above. We should not condemn just because Islam is
|>> against homosexuality or our culture is against homosexuality. Yes
|>> in the West where free thinking is supposedly taken for granted. If the
|>> purpose of sex was to have children then that would make the use of
|>> contraceptives illegal. So there must be something more to it. Instead of
|>> bashing gays, we can ask whether such a union between a certain portion
|>> of the population (I never said every one's gay) can fit in the social
In article <Dq14H...@txnews.amd.com>, ma...@dvorak.amd.com (Masud Rahman) writes:
|>You are sick!! Instead of using your brain in some good business you
|>are using it for propagation of homosexuality. I shouldn't have care
Someone writes a constructive article but gets a subjective reply!
Why is that not surprising :)
|>about your brain, it is truly yours (and what a wasteful brain!), the
|>reason I am responding is because you are polluting our society and SCB
|>as well.
|>You are worse than Taslima, at least she didn't advocate gay/lesbianism.
Neither did the orignal poster (not that there's really anything
wrong with it) :)
|>Don't worry about death threats (eedur mere hat gondho kora ucith noi),
|>when the natural death will come Allah will take care of you. In the mean
|>time, get closer to Taslima, Sayan and all other advocates of sexual
|>promiscuity in case you have to fight the religious fundamentalists.
|>If BD becomes Islamic state then wait for the severe punishment. I bet,
|>by that time you will change if not by Islamic techings but by the fear
Hey, here's someone who should be the next prime minister - beat
'em into submission, eh :)
|>of capital punisment. Am I sounding fundamentalist here??
naw :) Relax bhaijan, no need to bring Allah into this. The original
article merely pointed out a few things including facts about the
existance of homosexuality. It has survived through centuries despite
laws and social taboos and you think an Islamic state will make it go
away? It'll just drive it underground but it'll still exist - you
must certainly know that. Pre-marital hetrosexual sex is also not
permitted in Islam yet people are enjoying it fully in Islamic
states. Yes, that includes "good" Muslims. I suppose you'd want to
kill 'em off as well, eh!
rah...@bimmer.lkg.dec.com
|>> From: Hasan M Jamil <ja...@cs.concordia.ca>
|>> Masud Rahman wrote:
|>> > Yes, Bangladesh better be an Islamic state and prosecute the gay people...
|>> > untill then Bangladeshis (Muslims in particular) will keep condemning the
|>> > homosexual behavior even if it is distastefull to you.
|>> Oh my god!! Why do you think Bangladesh should be an islamic state?
|>> Under Jamaat/Shibir rule?
|>Why shouldn't I want Bangladesh be an Islamic state? If you want her to be
Do you think that non-Muslims can exist if Bangladesh becomes
an Islamic state? Probably not! Life is hard enough for them
as it is :(
|>secular state you try for that while I motivate people towards Islam and
|>Islamic state.
Why an Islamic state? Why not just motivate others towards
Islam? You can still practice Islam in a secular state but
life is tough for non-Muslims in an Islamic state. Hell, life
is hard enough for nonpracticing Muslims!
|>I wish to see Bangladesh an Islamic state under true followers of Islamic
And do you think the Islamic leaders can stay honest without
derailing from Islamic principals in Bangladesh. They'll probably
end up using Islam as a tool to gain more power and carry on with
thier corruption! This is probably not an unrealistic hypothesis.
BTW, Bangladesh as an Islamic state will push women back into
the dark ages but then again most people who want to see an
Islamic state probably want to see that anyways right! I guess
if it was not for the homosexuals who bring down Bangladesh
it must be the women going outside the home who're responsible
for all its misery :)
In theory, I don't think I really have anything against an Islamic
state but in reality an Islamic state places too many restrictions
on life and is not tolerant of peoples needs!
|>principles. If Jamaat-e-islami or Islami Chattra Shibir attains that
|>quality then yes they can rule, if not then there will be more capable
|>among others who will prevail. We are trying to bring all the islamic
|>thinking and practicing people together.
How about the non-Muslims who are bangali/bangladeshi? What do
you think will happen to them. Knowing the Islamic leaders in
Bangladesh, they'll nurture a hostile environment where non-Muslims
or even Muslims who do not follow them will be prosecuted.
|>I believe you are another proponent of AL's politics. If AL with all
|>it's heinous agenda and corrupt politicians can dream to rule BD, why
|>can't Jamaat-e-islami do the same?
At least AL would not make it illegal not to be a Muslim :) no,
I'm neither AL nor BNP no JP before someone starts taking sides!!!
|>> As for killing those gay and lesbians: Do you know most islamic
|>> countries have so many gay and lesbians that if they have to kill all
|>> of them, Bangladesh will have to export some of her people to run
|>> business there. Good for us though. Islamic states? Makes me lough!!
|>>
|>> - Jamil.
True :)
|>Pardon me, which islamic countries you are talking about? As far as I
|>know there exist muslim majority states ruled by secular people who
|>doesn't implement islamic shariah. Looks like you know more about gay
|>and lesbian people of various countries!!
|>Let me make this straight, if there is an Islmic state there will not
|>be any gay/lesbianism.
You truly believe that homosexuals do not exist say in Iran?
Do you also believe that Muslims in Iran do not take drugs?
If you do then perhaps you should try and face reality a little :)
BTW, the reason I bring up drugs is because I knew perfectly
"moral" (good) Iranian citizens who took drugs in a country
which banned alcohol. Point is, everything exist - its unrealistic
to think that anything which does not align with ones principles
can be eradicated. Even the US learned that during the prohibition!
You cannot supress people - it may take time but they'll eventually
rebel!
|>The punishment will be severe and examplry in case of any homosexual act.
|>So nobody will ever dare to behave or speak about this immoral act.
That will not remove their *existance* - they'll just continue
exist in society right next to you without your knowledge! This
reminds of an episode frm Cheers where Norm was hanging out with
a gay couple the entire time he was claiming that he knows a
gay man when he sees one!!!
BTW, just because everyone is scared to talk about this "immoral"
act will not take it out of existance even in the ideal Islamic
state. Would it be better to live in denial and turn a blind eye?
|>I don't understand how you guys are brainwashed with this gay/lesbian
Who's brainwashed. From the past posting, all people said was
that they exit in Bangladesh as in the rest of the world.
|>civilization, so much so that strated mockery about islamic rulings!!
Perhaps its not islamic rulings but abusive ruling in the name of
Islam without really adhering to Islamic principles!
|>The Qura'n mention so vividly about the Nation of Lut(AS) and their
|>destruction due to this behavior. Now you are trying to go back to that
|>time!! Even in this country (US) this gay/lesbinism movement didn't
|>started openly more than 20 yrs. The leaders didn't stand against it and
The blacks did not have voting rights until recently either.
What's your point?
|>now they are facing the consequence of it. I am afraid if people don't
So I guess the homosexuals are responsible for all the problems
that exist in US today? Damn, those people are mightly powerful.
Maybe I should "convert" before they punish me :)
|>stand up in our country now against the proponent of this immoral behavior
How can this be such an immoral act when two consenting adults
are making a choice which only involves the two of them? In case
you were not aware of it, gays and lesbians face lots of additional
obstacles in life so I doubt they want to infringe all these pain
upon themselves if they could help it!
|>our fate would be the same. And please don't call them minority, thieves
|>are minority also. Do you advocate thieves/robbers right too?
er, one big difference that you left out is that thieves and robbers
infringe upon others and violates there space/properies :)
How about opening up the mind a little :)
Mustafizur Rahman
|>It's refreshing to know that in a country of strong anti-gay culture,
|>the homosexual groups are coming of age. We Bengalis need to lighten up!
Yeah but how do you have conversations with closed minded
extremists who can't see past their immediate views and
belief system :( Also, we need to be able to participate in
debates without taking every single thing personally!
Wishful thinking ...
sayan bhattacharyya
Masud Rahman <ma...@dvorak.amd.com> wrote:
>
>There are three catagories of people here in the net rationalizing (or silent
>about) gayism.
>
You forgot a fourth category. Social fundamentalists like me who are committed
to equal rights for everyone (including gays and lesbians), not out of any
antipathy to Islam or deference to the West, but purely as a consequence of
our social fundamentalist beliefs.
I believe equality for everyone to be a fundamental social truth. I am a
fundamentalist.
-Sayan.
sayan bhattacharyya
Masud Rahman <ma...@dvorak.amd.com> wrote:
>
>Oh, yeah!! intolerence towards gays and lesbians! what a compassionate!!
>What is your judgment on murderers, serial killers, robbers, thieves?? They
>are minority too, please write some articles on their behalf.
A murder, a robbery and a theft have one thing in common : they have a
victim. Every time a murder, a robbery or a theft is committed, there is
someone whose right to live or whose right to own property is being flouted.
In short, in each of these crimes, someone is being victimized.
However, if two adults engage in a sexual act with each other's consent,
there is no "victim", no one's right is being trampled on, and therefore
it is not a crime. Therein lies the difference.
Hasan M Jamil
> In my dictionary, sex is only after marriage and with opposite gender. But
> many people believe (including west) sexual relationship is with opposite
> gender but marriage is not conditional. Homosexuality is a behavior where
> one looses his ability to choose the right partner. It's a perversion. It's
> a disease, a disability to make right distinction, a social crime. Gay and
> lesbianism is a danger for any society. It's immoral.
>
>
> Don't just hide behind the words, tell us your true motive.
>
> > What I have spoken out against, is _intolerance_ towards gays and lesbians.
>
> Oh, yeah!! intolerence towards gays and lesbians! what a compassionate!!
> What is your judgment on murderers, serial killers, robbers, thieves?? They
> are minority too, please write some articles on their behalf.
>
> You know genius, you are desparately polluting our society. Take your garbage
> out to some gay/lesbian newsgroup, we'll find lots of buddy there and leave us
> alone with our religion, cultures and values.
Masud:
I think you are partly right in what you are trying to say, but
constantly failing to see the reality. You branded me in one of your
three categories of people. I don't mind to be in all of them. I believe
in one thing,
A PERSON WHO IS LIKED BY ALMOST EVERYONE, HAS NO DISTINCT CHARCTER.
ON OTHER HAND, A PERSON WHO IS DISLIKED BY MAJORITY, IS AN EXTREMIST.
Now you have a better definition to categorize me, I think. I would
not like to categorize you in anyway like you do to others who differ
with you in their views.
I also do not think this attitude of categorizing people help any of
your cause. After all, we are all discussing things that matters to us.
I don't think anyone in this planet would like to listen to a baseless
argument and then change side. If your goal is to make people realize
and bring them to your side, you must change your strategy. But if you
already decided that you can not win them, and hence no point discussing
sense, then I have nothing to say. In that event, you are wasting your
time by participating in the discussion and ours too. It is then just
a unsubstatiated golabazi, and time killing thing.
Let me come back to your point.
We would like to see so many things in our society that refelect our
liking and disliking. We also have to realize we are in a planet now
where there is no physical boundaries. Consider yourself. If you are a
die hard muslim, in my view, you should not be in Texas. Rather, in
Saudi Arabia or Bangladesh. Why? Because you see and do (I assume. If
you say you never did, then I don't know what to say) so many things
that violate the core instructions of Islam. For example, eat non-halal
food, see almost bare breasted (forgive for saying this) women (may be
unwillingly), see non-sense TV, listen to forbidded things, etc. over
and over again. Is it not true that to keep your faith you should try to
be in a place where you can practice it properly, either by establishing
a rule of islam or being in a place that gives you that environment?
Now, you had options, going back to Bangladesh or to Saudi Arabia. But
you did not, knowing that Texas does not give you the environment nor
you can establish the rule of islam there. Why? Because you probably
thaught that you can sacrifice a bit for greater good of your self and
your next generation. And perhaps you thought that it will also give you
the opportunity to learn something that you may use to advance your
ideology and faith.
But the main point is you made some concessions. We all make. We give in
to things that we really don't like ourselves. You are right that there
are people who does things just for doing it. Or, they take anything
that comes from, say, USA. Anything form there is good for them, in this
case gay/lesbianism. But recall that it is not an US thing. It is
perhaps an age old concept that could survive islamic rule in Hazrat's
time.
With all mistakes, and concessions we are in the current time frame and
have few problems (lets address mostly ethical and ideological ones)
that we need to fix. Unless, we can do something similar to what Hazrat
himself did, and have a leader like him, I don't think Islam has a
chance. And you know, we don't have, in fact we can not have some one
like him. As a next best solution, if we have some one, either a
religious person or secular, I don't care, who is acceptably honest and
true to his/her words, that will satisfy most of us.
As far as gay and lesbian problem in Bangladesh, I don't think anyone
likes it other than who are gays and lesbians. A strict culture based on
Islam may cure or at least control the problem (yes, I recognize this as
a problem), but I don't want to be ruled by people like Golam Azam,
Saudi King, Ayatollah, etc. to eliminate homosexuality. There are so
many other stuff they can not do. For exmaple education, economy,
intelligence (oh they lack this one big), etc. Just have a look at
middle east, that will prove my point. I also would not like to be ruled
by people like Khaleda, Ershad, Hasina. They are not my role models,
and the kind of states person I would like to admire. But do we have the
choice? I don't think so.
As far as your frustation, I share it. I have a little baby. I am not
sure that I will not have to see something in my baby later that I
don't like. But I am sure, that I can not guarantee any of this. I am
sure that my parents felt the same way and I dis-appointed them in
several ways.
As a parting note, I would like to say that, you (the proponents of
die hard islam) need to wake up and take a good look at your
surroundings which I think you did not for a loooooooooong time.
At least your postings reveal that, or I am reading it wrong.
Analyze your position, your doings, your character and then put forward
an agenda. If you ask me to accept you as you are, an imprefect muslim,
like Golam Azam, then what is wrong with Hasina, Khaleda or Ershad?
I am perfectly happy with them. There is nothing wrong with Islam and
Socialism to that matter in theory. But there is definitely something
seriously wrong with the leaders of Islam and Socialism. Clean up your
acts first and then talk.
Thanks - Jamil.
Hasan M Jamil
> Now you figure out Reaz, Sayan bhattachatyya, Jamil who falls in which
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> category.
>
> I have no sympathy for the first two but for the last one, I would
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> request
> them to stand for the goods. Don't just be disillusioned, Islam has lot goods
> to offer. Take goods but not all from the west. How do you seperate between
> good and evil? ofcourse by the Qura'n.
Wow, thanks for your concern pal. But I don't really need it. :-)
I have more than enough friends. Remember, the gays and the lesbians :-)
You said Islam has lot to offer. Agreed. But don't you think Capitalism
and Socialism also have lot to offer? In theory of course. If you do
not agree, could you please point me to something that they say is wrong
in any standard? If not, then would you agree to the following
observations?
1. Islam, capitalism, and socialism are all good if implemented
properly.
2. In the past, no one could implement it properly or if they did,
failed to keep it due to their imperfections.
3. Since they are all good in theory, we can randomly pick anyone of
them to try again, if we want. No preference needed.
4. But before we attempt, we must ensure that the implementor is
qualified enough.
- Jamil.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Can't they see the harm in these immoral behavior?
Harm to us straight people? No. Perhaps you can explain.
>gayism
gayism is not a word
>Since gayism is anti-islamic that's why very subtley
>portaying this as minority right and showing how britual Islam is!!
Wake up, all religions condemn homosexuality.
There is no anti-Islam agenda here, only an anti-intolerance agenda..
>You just need one homosexual pair to be hanged and shown in public tv
>and that's it!! All those movements, rights, intellectual talks will
>go away forever.
Well said. Hey, maybe they can try that out on all the
other pesky minorities as well.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Oh, yeah!! intolerence towards gays and lesbians! what a
>compassionate!!
>What is your judgment on murderers, serial killers, robbers, thieves??
Sorry? Gay and Lesbian community is going around robbing people?
>Take your garbage out to some gay/lesbian newsgroup, we'll find lots
>of buddy there and leave us alone with our religion, cultures and
>values.
"us"?
zeeshan hasan
>A murder, a robbery and a theft have one thing in common : they have a
>victim. Every time a murder, a robbery or a theft is committed, there is
>someone whose right to live or whose right to own property is being flouted.
>there is no "victim", no one's right is being trampled on, and therefore
>it is not a crime. Therein lies the difference.
Strictly speaking, there is a victim: society,
if the majority in it doesn't want to be exposed
to homosexuality.
You continue to speak of "rights" as if they were
somehow universal. But society will always make
arbitrary demands on its members. Total personal
freedom only exists outside of society. Ever seen
Northern Exposure? It's no accident that such an
entertainingly individualist assortment of folks winds
up in Cicely, Alaska...
farewell,
zeeshan
sayan bhattacharyya
zeeshan hasan <zee...@ksg1.harvard.edu> wrote:
>
>You continue to speak of "rights" as if they were
>somehow universal.
As far as I am concerned, rights are universal. (As I
explained in a previous post, I am a fundamentalist :
I take universal rights as a fundamental and unquestionable
premise).
-Sayan.
Ahmed R Osmani
: You just need one homosexual pair to be hanged and shown in public tv and that's
: it!! All those movements, rights, intellectual talks will go away forever.
No, the the law enforcing agencies of this country will probably gun
you down for preaching such intolerance towards people who do not
follow Islam as you would like to.
Riaz Osmani
sal...@saladin.demon.co.uk
Bangladesh are Muslims. Hence it can be called a Muslim country or
state. However, Bangladesh is not an Islamic state since the ruling
system implemented in that country is one of Capitalism in cojunction
with Nationalism. Bangladesh like 54 other Muslim states are not Islamic
states. Sadly the Muslims are without a Islamic state since the
destruction of the Khilafah in 1924.
It is true that there is a revival of Islam in Bangladesh like in many
other Muslim countries. Through this revival it is hoped that a Islamic
state (Khilafah) will come into existence. This state will be for ALL
MUSLIMS. It is important to bear in mind that MUSLIMS ARE ONE UMMAH.
There is NO PLACE for Nationalism in Islam. As such there is no such
thing as a Pakistani Muslim, Turkish Muslim or Bangladeshi Muslim.
Muslims are Muslims are Muslims i.e. Muslims are just called Muslims.
M Baki
>However, if two adults engage in a sexual act with each other's consent,
>there is no "victim", no one's right is being trampled on, and therefore
>it is not a crime. Therein lies the difference.
This is not true that there is no victim. Society and culture are victims
for sure. Who knows, their families may also be other victims. By the way,
why it is illegal to suicide. Apparently, there is no victim.
Fazle Baki
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M Baki
Masud Rahman
> Subject: Hang 'em High (Re: Chittagong & Gay community)
> > ma...@dvorak.amd.com (Masud Rahman) writes:
> >Can't they see the harm in these immoral behavior?
>
> Harm to us straight people? No. Perhaps you can explain.
I have already explained in my other posts. But may be lewdness
is not considered as harm in your eyes.
>
> >gayism
>
> gayism is not a word
homosexulaism is a word so gayism is the synonym, or I just coined the
word!!
> >Since gayism is anti-islamic that's why very subtley
> >portaying this as minority right and showing how britual Islam is!!
>
> Wake up, all religions condemn homosexuality.
>
> There is no anti-Islam agenda here, only an anti-intolerance agenda..
>
There is an anti-Islamic agenda. And it's just the first step. You break
the morality of the nation and you are successfull. Remember the tools been
used by non-muslims were always lewdness, alcohole, women, drugs etc. for
the young generations. That's why the Islamic leaders were carefull not to
penetrate those and destroy them. Also remember, British came in India just
for the business and then what happened??
May be other religions also condemn homosexuality but they are unsuccessfull,
damn loosers. BTW, do you know in bible you can find some prophet committing
adultery? Those religions even changed their scriptures to justify these acts.
(Something like, if prophets can do that, we are just the human!!)
> >You just need one homosexual pair to be hanged and shown in public tv
> >and that's it!! All those movements, rights, intellectual talks will
> >go away forever.
>
> Well said. Hey, maybe they can try that out on all the
> other pesky minorities as well.
> --
Naeem, you know very well what is called minority and what is called crime
in Islam. Also you know, the rights of the minority in Islam as well. Arn't
you behaving "Gaan Pappi" here?
The punishment in Islam for some crimes is severe. It's not just to kill
people and have joy. It's to eradicate those crimes from the society. Again
before even giving those punishments, the ruler has to make sure about the
envoronment. The cutting hand for the theft is conditional. First make sure
that the basic needs (foods, cloths, shelter) are fullfilled, even after that
if somebody indulge in stealing then only you punish them. And one punishment
can make the difference. Do you know, in USA rapist are being released because
there is no room in the prison? You didn't have to see so many rapist, if
some of them were executed openly earlier.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > ma...@dvorak.amd.com (Masud Rahman) writes:
>
> >Oh, yeah!! intolerence towards gays and lesbians! what a
> >compassionate!!
> >What is your judgment on murderers, serial killers, robbers, thieves??
>
> Sorry? Gay and Lesbian community is going around robbing people?
>
> >Take your garbage out to some gay/lesbian newsgroup, we'll find lots
> >of buddy there and leave us alone with our religion, cultures and
> >values.
>
> "us"?
OK, "us - (naeem + riaz +........) = still many of us".
Sayan please don't go. Naeem want's to hear your sermon!!
> --
> From: Naeem Mohaiemen
> Subject: Religion & gay/lesbian community
> > zi...@iastate.edu (Zia Hassan) writes:
>
> >Homosexuality is not considered to be moral according to Islam, but it
> >may be permitted in Christianity or in Hinduism, I don't know.
>
> All major religions have text that can be interpreted to condemn
> same-sex unions.
>
> The gradual acceptance of gay/lesbian community in certain nations
> has come about because:
>
> -Separation of religion and state, resulting in decline of religious
> text as basis for defining societal mores. Even with non-religious
> mores defining culture, there has been stiff resistance to
> acceptance for gay community.
>
> BOTTOLINE: More acceptance of gay community in West is not due to
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> majority religion being Christianity, etc; but rather due to
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> separation of religion and state, and a trend of individualism
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> [=individual free to choose, society/state avoids telling such
> individual what is "right and wrong"].
You just hit on the nail!! When you seperate Islam from the Politics, you
will surely see all kind of evils (including gay/lesbianism) prevailing in
the society. That's the reason, we advocate and strive for Islam as the state
policy. You just need to agree that homosexuality is evil and you'll see
the beauty of Islamic rulings.
Regards,
--Masud Rahman
Javed Alum
26 years later.
And how the world has changed.
Having read all the posts, I, a married man, just wonder and smile to myself, are the gay hating people sheep or just actors pretending to be smart.
A big lol.
No need for all this hate. Water your own garden, tend to your own flowers.
Police your own children. Remember, this is 2022. Each to their own.
For most educated kids now all around the world, religion is a great disciplinary mechanism. A beautiful thing. But, look around you in Bangladesh, honestly can you say even 10% of the public follow the correct ways?
You, who hate gays and lesbians , do you follow everything the way you should?
If yes, great. You deserve to go to heaven. If no, then don't be a hypocritical human. Love all, be good, don't criticize, dont generalise, respect women folk, and above all, learn to LOVE YOURSELF. Trust me, you will be a happier person.