Hindi Culture Vs Imperialism Part -2
Amitabh Hajela
Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> Imperialism through trash-export
>
> To comprehend this fact and re-arrange oneself is a tall claim from the
> North and West Indian leaders , their culture does not allow them to go
> so deep in delving . Their attitudes of being in the Center and having a
> birth-right of dictating others has diluted their tenacity and
> perseverence of learning anything new.
>
> But they need to export cultural hegemonism .So they have found a rather
> easy soultion .They have figured that if the whole of Russia, the Western
> Asia and the Muslim Central Asia can get swayed by Bollywood culture ,
> why not bengal ??? So the endeavour is to drop all finesse from Hindi
> linguistic tradition and then attack others with the bag of trash . This
> bag would be more effective if some bengalees and Tamilians and South
> Indians are incorporated in the package . So here comes a Kishore Kumar
> ,Askhok Kumar (born and brought up in Indore) and some
> run-of-the-mill-good-for-no-position-in-Bengal like Kumar Shanu and then
> some turncoats like Bapi Lahiri(after becoming Bappi he finds it
> difficult to speak in bengalee with the correct pronunciation and
> intonation) .. They are trying for 50 years , they have almost succeeded
> but gets a beating from time to time and those beatings are pretty big .
> (The recent news is EL-TV - a part of Z TV- is becoming popular again ,
> other popular items contain FM Radio , Jibanmukhi movment and the folk
> culture movment and the higly sofisticated culture of Hidnustani culture
> , interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
> Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
> Dhaka is being swayed by this new cultural-imperialism , yet the new
> sentinels from WestBengal and the ever cautious Bangladeshee
> intellectuals are exporting the fight there and are putting up a very
> strong fight .
> The last word is not said though .
>
> New crusadors in the fight against Imperialism
>
> Very reassuringly a band of new crusaders are on the battle ground .
> Suman sent the word up in Bangladesh in every program of his "Bondhura
> Apnara Hindi Samrajyobad ar adhipottyobader birudhe rNukhe dNaran ,
> apnara swadhinota songram korechen , e songram aro gurutwopurono, aro
> kothin , eta amader mayer jonnye songram".
> Nochiketa ,PratulDa and others are putting up their fight very strong
> through different media .FM radio has really become a rallying point in
> this fight . However popular the Bollywood trash is , it is not getting a
> wasy win or walkever.
>
> The Bollywood imperialism takes a optimisitc view from the demise of
> Multani,other Rajasthani languages,Chattisgarhi, Pubi and other
> languages.Maithili is putting up the last ditch battle , but they
> miscalculated totally about South Indian and Eastern language .
>
> Hindi has lost all its sophsticatiion and striking capability to win
> over highly developed language systems like those in the East and the
> South .Trash can gain some short time battles but never the war .
>
> Hindi has now gone into the dungeons of a deep identity crisis .BJP is
> trying heavily to Sanskritize and Brahminize the language by putting in
> Sanskrit constructs absolutely not comprehended by the general public .
> And yet they make so silly mistakes that shows the un-preparedness and
> non-professionality in this approach and thus they are construed at a
> lower level by the "others" One classic example …Even Mr Vajpayee said
> "Hum unke paribaroN ke liye Somobedona PROKOT kar raha hNu" , BJP uses
> this word in many places.This is so unbecoming of Mr Vajpayee. From the
> Protyo and Butpatti point of view Prokot is WRONG , it connotes a
> negative value , one which came out undesiredly , the word should be
> PRAKASH , a common word in Hindi .By any measure of Paniini Grammar this
> is a silly mistake , ask a bengalee or a maithili , they would never have
> imagined such a word to express the same sentiment .Now this is not a
> mere mistake , it betrays their identity crises (they do not know what
> they are doing ), the common in the North Indian cow belt would in any
> case never have used such a construct .Now this effort tries
> unnecessarily to elitize the language only in one direction , the vast
> majority becomes linguistically dis-enfranchised and margnialised and
> they do not take part in the fight of the "bare sarkars" . With such a
> small minority (the North-Indian Brahmins especially) do not stand any
> chance to fight the whole bengalees who are very near to their languages
> or dialects .Thus the only army left on the Hindi side is the Bollywood
> regiment , well owing to their trash ("Dum hilani-wali tradition") they
> would never make a mark in the literary circle or the stage where people
> carry it over through generations.
>
> Surprise Comrades in the fight
>
> A very pleasant addition to this fight is the inclusion of a strong
> group of Hindi-speaking intellectuals .
> Calcutta is coming up as another strong center of the Hindi culture (in
> its pristine value) through the performing artists ,(Shyam Jalan, Usha
> Ganguli, The rathods and poets like Kusum Jain,Arjun Sing and the
> urdu/hindi writers in Calcutta , many urdu/hindi intellectuals have moved
> in to Calcutta) . Added to this is the tremendous wave of the Hindustani
> Classical tradition in Bengal . We are in a process of seeing a form of
> Hindi bereft of the bollywood-trash and at the same time cleansed off of
> the nefarious plot of the North Indian Brahminical religious-minorityism
> ..We look forward to that day when Hindi would be again a receptacle of
> all the local and foreign traditions and would give us a linguistic
> culture to be proud of.
>
> The last battle against Hindi Imperialism would be fought by the
> conscientious Hindi speaking popoulation .
Well, they've certainly destroyed the Hindi lanaguage, all right. Hindi
as a language could have been so rich, with its simple grammar and
enormous, earthy, descriptive vocabulary. Instead, they took Urdu,
threw out all the Perso-Arabic words, substituted Sanskrit ones, and
voila, there was Hindi. What they should have done was, instead of
looking to Sanskrit to enrich the language, they should have gone to the
various Hindi dialects (Braj, Awadhi, Bhojpuri, etc.) for inspiration.
These dialects are a gold-mine of genuine Hindi words and expressions.
In my opinion, the pure Hindi is (or was, I don't know about nowadays)
in the villages. Hindi has so many diverse and beautiful, rich and
expressive dialects, with SO much folk and oral literature, a
fountainhead of natural, down to Earth, tadbhav vocabulary. From
Marwari and Haryanvi in the west, Chhatisgarhi in the middle, Pahari and
Dogri in the north, Maithili and Magadhi in the east, the three dialects
I mentioned above, and others, a composite Hindi could have been
created, with the same grammar it has today, but a vastly more "Hindi"
vocabulary.
Sadly, those dialects are all on their way out today. The wisdom and
development of hundreds of years, KILLED by the loser Hindi elite
literati.
By the way, Bengali is just as sanskritised, so don't even go there!
You people had no more regard for your various spoken dialects in
framing your standard, than we did.
Soumitra Bose
Sambit Basu
Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>But they need to export cultural hegemonism .So they have found a rather
>easy soultion .They have figured that if the whole of Russia, the Western
>Asia and the Muslim Central Asia can get swayed by Bollywood culture ,
>why not bengal ??? So the endeavour is to drop all finesse from Hindi
>linguistic tradition and then attack others with the bag of trash . This
>bag would be more effective if some bengalees and Tamilians and South
>Indians are incorporated in the package . So here comes a Kishore Kumar
>,Askhok Kumar (born and brought up in Indore) and some
>run-of-the-mill-good-for-no-position-in-Bengal like Kumar Shanu and then
>some turncoats like Bapi Lahiri(after becoming Bappi he finds it
>difficult to speak in bengalee with the correct pronunciation and
>intonation) ..
Ei oporer ongsho-ta poDle gNajakhuri hindi chhobi-r
script-writer hishebe apnake-o luphe nito - scrictly on the
basis of merit jodi-o.
>, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
>Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
Interesting, indeed. Baniye baniye bollen naki?
Sambit
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Sambit Basu wrote:
>So here comes a Kishore Kumar
> >,Askhok Kumar (born and brought up in Indore) and some
> >run-of-the-mill-good-for-no-position-in-Bengal like Kumar Shanu and then
> >some turncoats like Bapi Lahiri(after becoming Bappi he finds it
> >difficult to speak in bengalee with the correct pronunciation and
> >intonation) ..
>
> script-writer hishebe apnake-o luphe nito - scrictly on the
> basis of merit jodi-o.
>
Ekhane Thik kon kothata tomar bhul mone holo Sambit, Khandwa-kendrik
bhul (?) tothyo-ti chchaRa ?
> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>
> Interesting, indeed. Baniye baniye bollen naki?
Kyano, tomar ki mone hoy ?
Shoumyo.
================================================================
"... Shada bhat thik uThbei phute tarapunjer moto,
Purono Gaaner bismrito-kotha phirbe tomar shwor-e
Premik milbe premikar shaathe Thik-i
Kintu Shanti pabena, pabena, pabena..."
('Shongoti', Ode to Amiya Chakroborti
- Shoheed Kadri)
Siddhartha Duttagupta
Shoumyo Dasgupta <txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> wrote:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
>> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>>
>
>Kyano, tomar ki mone hoy ?
Amar ei tai nitpicking achey jey kolkata shobshomoyei classical music-er
center chilo, "fast becoming" bolley shonai jeno eta ajker ghotona.
Jokhon allauddin khan ebong tar shishyora rajotto korto (ali akbar
rabishankar) tokhon kolkata could be called the capital of this genre
of music (whatever that means);))
Kishore Kumar-er shongey ek line-ey Kumar Shanur nam na mention
korai uchit. Onar chilo shotyi oshadharon protibha (tar gan
shombondhyey jai motamot thakuk na keno).I am just proud that
people like him, hemanta, SD, RD, manna dey, geeta dutt, bimal
roy tader kajer modhyey diyey banglar shonshkritikey baki
bharatborsher audience-er modhyey choratey pereychen.Culture
joto exclusive joto gharana-ised hobey toto tar mrityu taratari
hobey.Porey jokhon lokey boley jey ekshomoyey amader emon know-how
chilo jey lohai morchey porto na tokhon boro depressing lagey.
Boyosh hoyey geychey tai eto bajey boka. Ekhon shudhu ektai
prarthona "koi lauta dey mere bite huyey din";))
regards, siddhartha
Arnab Gupta
Posting for Sambit...
Arnab.
*****************************************************************
Shoumyo Dasgupta writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>So here comes a Kishore Kumar
>> >,Askhok Kumar (born and brought up in Indore) and some
>> >run-of-the-mill-good-for-no-position-in-Bengal like Kumar Shanu and then
>> >some turncoats like Bapi Lahiri(after becoming Bappi he finds it
>> >difficult to speak in bengalee with the correct pronunciation and
>> >intonation) ..
>>
>> Ei oporer ongsho-ta poDle gNajakhuri hindi chhobi-r
>> script-writer hishebe apnake-o luphe nito - scrictly on the
>> basis of merit jodi-o.
>>
>Ekhane Thik kon kothata tomar bhul mone holo Sambit, Khandwa-kendrik
>bhul (?) tothyo-ti chchaRa ?
Byapra-ta holo je, oi "So here comes a Kishore Kumar..." ityadir
aage ekti bakyo chhilo (jeti tumi kete uDiye diyechho):
"This bag would be more effective if some bengalees and
Tamilians and South Indians are incorporated in the package ."
Ei balokochito cause-effect diye ekti conspiracy theory khaDa
kora (bolai bahulyo, tothyer konorokom shomorthon chhaDa)
amar kaachhe, gNajakhuri-r theke kono ongshe kom mone hoyna.
Asha kori bojhate perechhi.
>> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
>> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>>
>> Interesting, indeed. Baniye baniye bollen naki?
>Kyano, tomar ki mone hoy ?
Mone hoy, bhul.
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
Sambit Basu wrote:
>
> Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >But they need to export cultural hegemonism .So they have found a rather
> >easy soultion .They have figured that if the whole of Russia, the Western
> >Asia and the Muslim Central Asia can get swayed by Bollywood culture ,
> >why not bengal ??? So the endeavour is to drop all finesse from Hindi
> >linguistic tradition and then attack others with the bag of trash . This
> >bag would be more effective if some bengalees and Tamilians and South
> >Indians are incorporated in the package . So here comes a Kishore Kumar
> >,Askhok Kumar (born and brought up in Indore) and some
> >run-of-the-mill-good-for-no-position-in-Bengal like Kumar Shanu and then
> >some turncoats like Bapi Lahiri(after becoming Bappi he finds it
> >difficult to speak in bengalee with the correct pronunciation and
> >intonation) ..
>
> script-writer hishebe apnake-o luphe nito - scrictly on the
> basis of merit jodi-o.
Bappi LA te eshechilo , amar songye byaktigoto bhabe kotha hoiechhe ,
kotha tokhoni shunlam . nijer chele der sathe she hindi tei kotha bole
....
>
> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>
> Interesting, indeed. Baniye baniye bollen naki?
Bochore Kota classical songeet sommelon hoi jano, kota dosh bochor age
hoto seta dekhecho ? Ami to sudhu dokshin shorotolir kotah jani , ekhon
batsorik ontoto pachta hoi , tar ekta sonarpur e ekta baruipur onchole ,
dosh bochore eshob kichui chilo na . Ami eta jani karon Rashid ekhon amar
parai eshe flat kineche ...
>
> Sambit
Soumitra Bose
I could not agree with you more , that is what we needed in Hindi
>
> By the way, Bengali is just as sanskritised, so don't even go there!
> You people had no more regard for your various spoken dialects in
> framing your standard, than we did.
Now I can say with a little relief that the trend of 19th century of
sanskritisation of BEngalee has actually been checked and changed a lot
..The present day bengalee literature after MAnik to now Anil Ghorai is a
totally different picture altogether . The recent literatures are writing
novel completely in dialects , even the narration .
Soumitra Bose
Siddhartha Duttagupta wrote:
>
> Shoumyo Dasgupta <txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> wrote:
> >Sambit Basu wrote:
> >> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
> >>
> >
>
> center chilo, "fast becoming" bolley shonai jeno eta ajker ghotona.
> Jokhon allauddin khan ebong tar shishyora rajotto korto (ali akbar
> rabishankar) tokhon kolkata could be called the capital of this genre
> of music (whatever that means);))
Majhkhaner shomoita ekebare shunshan morubhumi hoie giyechilo ekebare .
Aj pray somosto instrumente , pray shob ghoranar lok powa jai ei banglai
Y. Malaiya
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> One classic example …Even Mr Vajpayee said
> "Hum unke paribaroN ke liye Somobedona PROKOT kar raha hNu" , BJP uses
> this word in many places.This is so unbecoming of Mr Vajpayee. From the
> Protyo and Butpatti point of view Prokot is WRONG , it connotes a
> negative value , one which came out undesiredly , the word should be
> PRAKASH , a common word in Hindi .
Use of "prakat" is common, "prakash" in this context is never used.
Why is it negative?
Yashwant
Siddhartha Duttagupta
In article <5njjjn$3...@er6.rutgers.edu>,
>>> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>
>
> baDchhe? Purono bhalo conference-gulo-r modhye akmatro Dover
>
> Onyodik-e Maharashtra borong, Hindustani classical-er
> center stage hoye uthechhe - Bombay byatireke-i.
>
Netaji indoor-ey amio beshi bhirdekhini. Kintu stateman-ey ekta
article dekheychilam, ebong HMVr shongey jukto ektibhodroloker
kachey shuneychi jey banglai classical music-er casette etc.
ekhon ager thekey onek beshi bikri hoi. I don't know how this
is adjusted for population inflation but thegentleman said
that popularisationof classical andsemi-classical music is the
reason. Actually semi-classical music sales have really shot
up.Etar thekey bangalir modhyey robindrosangeter dik thekey
semiclassicaler dikey jhokar ektatrend acheyboleiamar
money hoi.
Jehetu sambit babu HMVr shongeyjukto chilen (?) uni hoyto
eibyaparey beshi janben.
As for Maharashtra, Pune has always been the biggest center
stage for classical music. It is amazing that when you see
even Marathi folk drama, the all pervasive influence of
classical. Jehetu Pune-is a sortof second home for us now,
it is a great opportunity to listen to all the luminaries
in the field. (though fortunately or unfortunately most
of them now keep touring the states;))
Incidentally (not to brag about it) Rochester, NY is
Bhimsen Joshi's home in the US. His brother-in-law
is a professor in the department of statistics here.
So whenever he comes to the states he makes it a point
to come here. Once he blessed us poor students by
performing in their living room. Can you imagine the
thrill, three feet away from God?;)))
regards, siddhartha
Y. Malaiya
Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> Y. Malaiya wrote:
> >
> > Soumitra Bose wrote:
> >
> > > One classic example …Even Mr Vajpayee said
> > > "Hum unke paribaroN ke liye Somobedona PROKOT kar raha hNu" , BJP uses
> > > this word in many places.This is so unbecoming of Mr Vajpayee. From the
> > > Protyo and Butpatti point of view Prokot is WRONG , it connotes a
> > > negative value , one which came out undesiredly , the word should be
> >
> > Use of "prakat" is common, "prakash" in this context is never used.
> > Why is it negative?
> >
> > Yashwant
>
> and "okta" .The last one shows that it is coming out breaking barriers
> ..But Prakash is expression .PAnnini has clearly explained . What is
> commonly used is of no value grammatically .
Going by vyutpatti, we should use the term "taila" ("tel" meaning oil)
only if it is from "tila" (sesame) and not from mustard, coconut etc.
Do you say "It's me" or the grammatically correct "It is I"?
Yashwant
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> amader moto eNdo parai Dokshini songget sommelon hoi eta boro
> kotha .
>
KorNatoki bolchcho ki ? Shono ekta anonder ghotona.
[Claim: Bangali chchaRah Uttor Bharoter onyo kono bhasha-bhashi
bharotiyo ayto KorNatoki shongeet aytota bhalobashen-na ba appreciate
koren-na.]
Kono proof dite parbo na, paThok: te-eNte jhogRa korben-na. Amar
obhigyota.
Ekta ghotona boli.
Balamurali Krishna eshechchen State College-e shebar. BhiR upchche
poRchche. Choturdike shona jachche Tamil ar Telugu bhasha. Er modhye
ekta dol theke Banglay onurodh elo : Paramathmudu Veligey gaite hobe,
gaite hobe Mayamalavagowlai. Balamurali rakhlen shei kotha. Bangla je
bhaloi bojhen tar aro proman dilen oi duti ganer por "Akash Bhora Shurjo
tara" geye. Bangali doltir dike anonder shonge matha ghuriye bollen
ekjon Dokhkhin bharotiyo bondhu - 'Sure you are Bengali. Wherever you
guys smell culture, at least one bengali must be there.'
KoThata hoyto otishoyokti.
Kintu,
Oboshyoi, aykshobar nijeder bhalota bolbo. Jekhane amra kharap, shekhane
koThor atmo-shomalochona korbo.
Shoumyo.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Sambit Basu
Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>Jeta jano na setake kichu hotashabad diye rohsiye likhle anondobajar e
>lekha chapano jai , kintu tate boktobbo pesh hoi na .
E byapar-ta apnar theke ke aar bhalo jaanbe!
>Sadarang hoi hoi
>kore cholchhe,
Kirokom hoi hoi? Tansen? Calcutta Music circle?
>Wb govt ekhon ekadhik program korchhe ,( oboshyo sorkari
>program jinish tate amar oniha achhe , tate fact paltai na ) Probashi
>anondobajar e e shob conference er khobor beroi , beshh i bhir hoi .
Kirokom "beshh i"? "Anandabjar"-er khobor-e apnar astha
phire elo kobe Soumitrababu?
>SRA
>besh bhalo bhabe cholchhe ,
Kirokom bhalo bhabe? Eshob agDom-bagDom "besh i bhir hoy",
"bhalo bhabe cholchhe" ityadi solid tothyer opor bhitti
kore boktobyo pesh korle-i jodi, kolkata aar WB hindustani
classical music-er center stage dokhol kore phelto, ta'le
shob bhabna chuke jeto. Kumarprasad Mukhopadhyay-er moton
lok-ke boi likhe khed prokaash korte hotona, "shob-i
jokhon jahannam-e jachchhe tokhon uchcho-shongeet niye
amader moton puratonponthee buDo haabDa-der akkhep kisher?"
(Tobe boi-ti Ananda Publication-er).
>ekhon shruti nondon hochhye , shobii
>tollygunge e . Doskhine o uttore conference bhaloi hoi . uttorpara ekhon
>besh boro korei hoi. ..
UttorpaDa bohudin dhore-i hochchhe, notun noy.
>Parar jolosha ageo hoto ekhono hoi, tatei ba ki
>apottyi erokom jolosha te bangla gan i beshi gaowa hoi. "Konthi" der
>protipottyi komechhe , eta ghotona .
Amader alochona-y e proshongo obaantor.
>Rashid Khan charao SRA theke onekei
> gann korchhen , sei porjaie utha oto sohoj noi.
Maharashtra theke ato bhalo vocalist uthchhen ki kore ta'le?
Amar moton non-avid follower-i topatop jona-pNachek-er naam
kore debo.
Maharasshtre (Bombay-te) besh kichhu chhoto chhoto cassette company
aachhe jNara muloto uchchang-shongeet o marathi-natyogeeti
prokash koren. Kolkata-y kota aachhe? Oishob chhoto company-r
cassette kolkata-te ashe-o na, bikkiri hoyna bole.
>Ekta market gore
>uthcchhe , amader moto eNdo parai Dokshini songget sommelon hoi eta boro
>kotha .
Eta-i ki apnar buk-chaapdano-r akmatro karon?
>Hotasha choriye nijer dispepsia o omlo onnoder modhye chorano Anondobajar
>onek dhorei chalu korechhe , tar akta market o achhe , tobe seta byapok
>manush ke narai na , ashabad e kaj hoi. Atmoroti te noi.
Bote-i to. Ashabaad aar Tothyo-er Somorthon ChhaDa
altu-faltu boke jaowa-ke jodi somarthok dhore neowa
jay, tobe-i.
Apnar ei manoshik-balyo dhore rakhar rohoshyo-ta ki
Soumitrababu?
Sambit
Soumitra Bose
> >kotha tokhoni shunlam . nijer chele der sathe she hindi tei kotha bole
> >....
>
> BTW, Bappi baaDi-te lungi porben na pajama porben, she
> niye-o ki apnar kono strong opinion aachhe?
>
> >> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
> >> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
> >>
>
> >hoto seta dekhecho ? Ami to sudhu dokshin shorotolir kotah jani , ekhon
> >batsorik ontoto pachta hoi , tar ekta sonarpur e ekta baruipur onchole ,
> >dosh bochore eshob kichui chilo na . Ami eta jani karon Rashid ekhon amar
> >parai eshe flat kineche ...
>
> bondho hoye gyachhe. Tai diye kichhu-i promanito hoyna.
> Lok-shongkhya joto baaDchhe, shei tulona-y ki sangeet sammelon
> baDchhe? Purono bhalo conference-gulo-r modhye akmatro Dover
> doshek aage-o timtim kore hoto, akhon bodhoy bondho-i
> hoye gyachhe. Bochhor pNach-chhoy aage obdi, WB Govt.
> Netaji Indoor-e je conference koren, ta'te addhek-er
> beshi seat phNaka jete dekhechhi. (Tobe name-brand
> gaan ba bajna hole, oboshyo-i, ticket-er akaal.)
>
> (Classical conference-er tulona-y hajaargun beDechhe
> paDay paDay jolsha-r bahar, aar boDo stage-e "Tochon
> Ghosh-er nibedon" type-er onushthan.)
>
> Onek dhaak-dhol pitiye SRA arombho hoyechhilo to,
> Rashid Khan chhaDa aar akjon-o national level-er shilpi
> beriyechhen?
>
> Onyodik-e Maharashtra borong, Hindustani classical-er
> center stage hoye uthechhe - Bombay byatireke-i.
>
Jeta jano na setake kichu hotashabad diye rohsiye likhle anondobajar e
lekha chapano jai , kintu tate boktobbo pesh hoi na . Sadarang hoi hoi
kore cholchhe, Wb govt ekhon ekadhik program korchhe ,( oboshyo sorkari
program jinish tate amar oniha achhe , tate fact paltai na ) Probashi
anondobajar e e shob conference er khobor beroi , beshh i bhir hoi .SRA
besh bhalo bhabe cholchhe , ekhon shruti nondon hochhye , shobii
tollygunge e . Doskhine o uttore conference bhaloi hoi . uttorpara ekhon
besh boro korei hoi. ..Parar jolosha ageo hoto ekhono hoi, tatei ba ki
apottyi erokom jolosha te bangla gan i beshi gaowa hoi. "Konthi" der
protipottyi komechhe , eta ghotona . Rashid Khan charao SRA theke onekei
gann korchhen , sei porjaie utha oto sohoj noi. Ekta market gore
uthcchhe , amader moto eNdo parai Dokshini songget sommelon hoi eta boro
kotha .
Hotasha choriye nijer dispepsia o omlo onnoder modhye chorano Anondobajar
Soumitra Bose
Y. Malaiya wrote:
>
> Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> > "Hum unke paribaroN ke liye Somobedona PROKOT kar raha hNu" , BJP uses
> > this word in many places.This is so unbecoming of Mr Vajpayee. From the
> > Protyo and Butpatti point of view Prokot is WRONG , it connotes a
> > negative value , one which came out undesiredly , the word should be
Sambit Basu
Soumitra Bose <soum...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>Bappi LA te eshechilo , amar songye byaktigoto bhabe kotha hoiechhe ,
>kotha tokhoni shunlam . nijer chele der sathe she hindi tei kotha bole
>....
Amar point je sheta noy, onyo ekti post-e janiyechhi.
BTW, Bappi baaDi-te lungi porben na pajama porben, she
niye-o ki apnar kono strong opinion aachhe?
>> >, interestingly Calcutta and Wbengal is fast becoming the centre-stage of
>> >Hidnustani classical tradition ) .
>>
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Sambit Basu wrote:
>
> Onyodik-e Maharashtra borong, Hindustani classical-er
> center stage hoye uthechhe - Bombay byatireke-i.
Eta ekta chomothkar shotyo. Ekjon MaraThi bondhu bujhiyechchilen ekdin,
kibhabe graam theke shohor ar mofoshshol-e chchoRiye poRechche
ragprodhan shongeet oi rajye, ar tar karon-ta ki.
MaraThi moncher ek bishesh akorshon holo MaraThi Natyogeeti ar
Bhav-geeti. Kokhono kokhono obhineta (jader shotyi-i anekshomoye gayok-o
hote hoy) bhalo gan korle dorshok/srota bar bar ganti gaite onurodh
koren - emonki kokhono kokhono chaliye jete bole thaken.
Ei natyogeeti ar Bhav-geeti-r mool bahon amader Raagmala. Ete kore
ontoto eite shombhob hoyechche je ekta byapokotoro jonoshadharoN-er
kachche Margo-shongeet akta abedon rakhte perechche.
Ebhabe bishleshon korle oboshyo Siddhartha-r bondhu-r totwo-ta dNariye
jay. Hoyto 'popular' madhyome-i raagshongeet chchoRiye poRchche.
Kimba hoyto eibhabeo bola jete pare je raagshongeet-er to lokhkhyo-i
chchilo jono-monoronjon - ar shei orthe amra tar theke jyano durei shore
gechchi khanikta ?
Shoumyo.
Soumitra Bose
Y. Malaiya wrote:
>
> Soumitra Bose wrote:
> >
> > Y. Malaiya wrote:
> > >
> > > Soumitra Bose wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Hum unke paribaroN ke liye Somobedona PROKOT kar raha hNu" , BJP uses
> > > > this word in many places.This is so unbecoming of Mr Vajpayee. From the
> > > > Protyo and Butpatti point of view Prokot is WRONG , it connotes a
> > > > negative value , one which came out undesiredly , the word should be
> > >
> > > Use of "prakat" is common, "prakash" in this context is never used.
> > > Why is it negative?
> > >
> > > Yashwant
> >
> > Please check out the butpattyi of Prakat vs PRakash . Pro purbak kr dhatu
> > and "okta" .The last one shows that it is coming out breaking barriers
> > ..But Prakash is expression .PAnnini has clearly explained . What is
> > commonly used is of no value grammatically .
>
> only if it is from "tila" (sesame) and not from mustard, coconut etc.
>
> Do you say "It's me" or the grammatically correct "It is I"?
>
> Yashwant
That is not so much of butpattyi , that is connotation which has changed
..
I admit connotation do change , but that change is due to the change of
the user and its common. IT is true that if Vajpayee go on using this for
about a decade , it will be like this .YET it is wrong .
Like Upolabdh in BJP-hindi means produced , but it is actually (as per
sanskrit grammar) "onudhavona" . Connotations are in the hands of people
or the intellectuals. Every language has similar words whose meaning
should not be as it is today . That exactly was my point .The identity
crises is exactly here . You cannot go on extending something to a very
high extent which would not have any relationship with the base usage of
the people .
Y. Malaiya
Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> Imperialism through trash-export
> But they need to export cultural hegemonism .So they have found a rather
> easy soultion .They have figured that if the whole of Russia, the Western
> Asia and the Muslim Central Asia can get swayed by Bollywood culture ,
> why not bengal ??? So the endeavour is to drop all finesse from Hindi
> linguistic tradition and then attack others with the bag of trash .
> .. They are trying for 50 years , they have almost succeeded
> but gets a beating from time to time and those beatings are pretty big .
> (The recent news is EL-TV - a part of Z TV- is becoming popular again ,
....
I too once thought Bollywood was trash, enjoyed only by rickshawallas,
and I thought "nautanki" was trash too, enjoyed by ignorant villagers.
And then I realized that what is today trashy, can become classic
after a few years.
A significant part of Bollywood output is indeed trash, but a good part
of it is very enjoyable and time to time they do create some
outstanding things that can be compared against the best in the
world.
Yashwant
Soumitra Bose
Y. Malaiya wrote:
>
> Soumitra Bose wrote:
> >
> > Imperialism through trash-export
> .....
>
> > easy soultion .They have figured that if the whole of Russia, the Western
> > Asia and the Muslim Central Asia can get swayed by Bollywood culture ,
> > why not bengal ??? So the endeavour is to drop all finesse from Hindi
> > linguistic tradition and then attack others with the bag of trash .
> > but gets a beating from time to time and those beatings are pretty big .
> > (The recent news is EL-TV - a part of Z TV- is becoming popular again ,
>
> I too once thought Bollywood was trash, enjoyed only by rickshawallas,
> and I thought "nautanki" was trash too, enjoyed by ignorant villagers.
> And then I realized that what is today trashy, can become classic
> after a few years.
NAutanki and bollywood are poles apart .Though in Central bihar there is
a special XXX rated nautanki , done by the whores in the houses of the
upper-caste jotedars and jamindars . These are concocted forms , but
Nautanki was and still is a folk-lore and folk-art . We have some
wonderful Nautankis in Bihar countryside . Tijan BAi's form is a form of
Nautanki too .
>
> A significant part of Bollywood output is indeed trash, but a good part
> of it is very enjoyable and time to time they do create some
> outstanding things that can be compared against the best in the
> world.
Of course there would be some good parts , that does not change the basic
intent of bollywood and character of it , the trash-industry only to
propagate Hindi imperialism in the name of national intergrity . The
integrity of the hoodlum and satta world , a direct effect the
video-isation of the rape of muslim teens in Bombay and then distributing
them throughout the world.
>
> Yashwant
Uday Reddy
Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> Prakash is definitely a verb , to express , prokot means to come out
> without much desire . I was talking not about present Hindi connotation ,
> but the original Sanskrit meaning .
Well, then, you would do well to quote a Sanskrit dictionary. From my
little knowledge of Hindi (as well as the way these Sanskrit roots are
used in Telugu), prakat means to declare and prakAsh means to shine.
Uday
Supratik Das
On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Amitabh Hajela wrote:
> Soumitra Bose wrote:
> > Imperialism through trash-export
> as a language could have been so rich, with its simple grammar and
> enormous, earthy, descriptive vocabulary. Instead, they took Urdu,
> threw out all the Perso-Arabic words, substituted Sanskrit ones, and
> voila, there was Hindi. What they should have done was, instead of
> looking to Sanskrit to enrich the language, they should have gone to the
> various Hindi dialects (Braj, Awadhi, Bhojpuri, etc.) for inspiration.
> These dialects are a gold-mine of genuine Hindi words and expressions.
> In my opinion, the pure Hindi is (or was, I don't know about nowadays)
> in the villages. Hindi has so many diverse and beautiful, rich and
> expressive dialects, with SO much folk and oral literature, a
> fountainhead of natural, down to Earth, tadbhav vocabulary. From
> Marwari and Haryanvi in the west, Chhatisgarhi in the middle, Pahari and
> Dogri in the north, Maithili and Magadhi in the east, the three dialects
> I mentioned above, and others, a composite Hindi could have been
> created, with the same grammar it has today, but a vastly more "Hindi"
> vocabulary.
I agree with many aspects of your posts, specially about languages like
Bhojpuri, Maithili, chattisgarhi which are very sweet and lyrical.
However, that one-eyed idiot Soumitra doesn't understand that what is
being promoted through Films and TV is not Hindi but an Urduised
Hindusthani which is more properly followed perhaps in Pakistan than in
India. But I don't expect that nincompoof called Soumitra to understand
so.
Soumitra Bose
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Amitabh Hajela wrote:
>
>
> > > Imperialism through trash-export
>
> > enormous, earthy, descriptive vocabulary. Instead, they took Urdu,
> > threw out all the Perso-Arabic words, substituted Sanskrit ones, and
> > voila, there was Hindi. What they should have done was, instead of
> > looking to Sanskrit to enrich the language, they should have gone to the
> > various Hindi dialects (Braj, Awadhi, Bhojpuri, etc.) for inspiration.
> > These dialects are a gold-mine of genuine Hindi words and expressions.
> > In my opinion, the pure Hindi is (or was, I don't know about nowadays)
> > in the villages. Hindi has so many diverse and beautiful, rich and
> > expressive dialects, with SO much folk and oral literature, a
> > fountainhead of natural, down to Earth, tadbhav vocabulary. From
> > Marwari and Haryanvi in the west, Chhatisgarhi in the middle, Pahari and
> > Dogri in the north, Maithili and Magadhi in the east, the three dialects
> > I mentioned above, and others, a composite Hindi could have been
> > created, with the same grammar it has today, but a vastly more "Hindi"
> > vocabulary.
>
> Bhojpuri, Maithili, chattisgarhi which are very sweet and lyrical.
> However, that one-eyed idiot Soumitra doesn't understand that what is
> being promoted through Films and TV is not Hindi but an Urduised
> Hindusthani which is more properly followed perhaps in Pakistan than in
> India. But I don't expect that nincompoof called Soumitra to understand
> so.
Again the same mistake of spelling , the same thing twice , shows the
attitude of BJPs , not to learn any more . This attitude is evident in
the fact that Supratik das has never listened to PAkistani Urdu or read
or asked any pakistani . Pakistani Urdu has changed quite a lot , in the
opposite direction of BJP Hindi. BJP Hindi is grammatically wrong , it
does not create big turmoil as no one understands that "created" language
.. Supratik has shown very openly that he understood nothing of the
article , the essence went tangent .That gives me a reassurance that my
categorisation of BJPs as uneducated and uncultured are very true ...
"Bish ta hole jotha sthanei lagiachhe noile daga bNadhibar proyojon
porilo keno " This is a test for Supratik and BJPs , whose quote was it
????
afku
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> afku wrote:
> > Soumitra Bose wrote:
> > > afku wrote:
> > > > Are oi Soumitra babu. Eto khepen kayan ? Huh ?
> > > > Ligantorito kore dieche bole ki eto goshsha ? Ta keu zodi korei fele
> > > > tahole na raag kore, aapnar mordamir ek khan foto pathaya den dekhi
> > > > zate kore hogoloei buzbar pare ze aapni ekjon morod. Khotna fotna niya
> > > > matha ghamanor dorkar nai. Heida na hoileo cholbo.
> > > > Faiz Kabir
> > > Mian eibar thikka banankhan shudho koira likhhyen , ashole sobdho gulani
> > > jodi eirokom charabera koira thon mone hoi halai kono maura r loge kotha
> > > koi naki????
> > Are are shotti shotti dekhi tikidhari bone gelen. Boli bangrejir ki kono
> > dictionary ber korechen naki ze ta dhekhe banan korte hobe. Eito aapnar
> > shobdho nie to bipake pore gechi. Zemon "thikka". Eta ki pakistaner shei
> > 'Tikka Khan' theke shikhechen naki ? "Shudho" ta ki *Shudhdho* hobe na
> > onno kichu .?
> > Ta aapnar jonno ei chora ta upohar dilam.
> > **Khepe zeye lafai bhishon khepa kola beng
> > Talgulie nachte thake ding denga deng deng.
> > Benger darun goshsha ebar keno shobai bole
> > Ki naki shob lege aache benger pachar tole.**
> > Ha ha ha......
> > Faiz Kabir
> > P.S : scb tei alap korlam. Karon aapnar raag aamar jonno onuraag hoe zak
> > ta aami chai na. After all aapni chaileo aami homo hote chai na. Ha ha
> > ha.....
> Bangla bhasha ta janele ba bhalo kore bolte parle ta prothomei bojha jai
> , obodhyo o osrabyo bangla bolle tao prothomei bojha jai . Abar mon diye
> na porle ba bujhle kintu banlga ta identity crisiser modhy diyei shekhe
> manush . Nije borai korbo bangali bole kintu bhalo bangla bolte parin na
> , karin byakaron tai jani na (samprodayikotar karone ebong aloshyer jonne
> ) etato beshi barabari i shudhu na , ek dhoroner bhrasthcahr ebong
> dwatyiohinota r poricahyok .....Okhanei bojha jai ke kotodur nijer
> atmotokhollus niye atmoshlagha bodh kore ...
Ekei bole dhan bhante giye shiber geet gawa. Mathai bichi uthe gele
eirokom ee hoy. Pete thakleto ber hobe. Oteb bolar kichu na paye ekhon
bekoron niye maramari koro. Bhalo bangla aar bangalitto niye matha
chulkao aar jharfuk dao.
Boli eirokom chorui pakhir moto kichir michir kore laav nei Babu
Soumitra.
Hoy shotke poro maaf cheye na hoy zudhdho koro bir dorpe.
Min mine pen penany aar bhal lagena.
Faiz kabir
Nam Oprokashito
afku wrote:
>
> Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> > afku wrote:
>
> > > Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
> > > > afku wrote:
> > > > > Are oi Soumitra babu. Eto khepen kayan ? Huh ?
> > > > > Ligantorito kore dieche bole ki eto goshsha
> > > > Mian eibar thikka banankhan shudho koira likhhyen
> > > Boli bangrejir ki kono dictionary ber korechen naki ze ta dhekhe banan korte hobe.
> > Bangla bhasha ta janele ba bhalo kore bolte parle ta prothomei bojha jai
> Ekei bole dhan bhante giye shiber geet gawa. Mathai bichi uthe gele
> eirokom ee hoy.
"bichi"=balls
Bichi tho matha-e othe na. Kothata holo--> "Matha-e MAAL uthe jawa"
Neil Ghosh
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Javed wrote:
> I do not watch hindi movies because I found out most of them are silly
> and are for Rickshaw pullers and average indians who have little or no
> education and who take pleasure at the unrealistic fantasies depicted
> vividly in the movies. Very few hindi movies were of good quality and
> those directors should be allowed to make more of them. But the problem
> is if the movies do not cater to the needs of uneducated, poor, rickshaw
> pullers and laborers, then they can no longer do business. I understand
> the economic factors behind the hindi-movie scripts.
I just realized that the movies you speak of (not counting certain new
school movies by the likes of ratnam and company...but I also have an
opinion on those too...which I shall bring up in a moment) serve the same
role as the rap music of folks like Notorious BIG (rest his soul) and Lil'
Kim and cohorts in the United States. Both of these things (Hindi movies,
Big-Willy talk rap music like the kind just mentioned) depict unrealistic
fantasies of unlimited promiscuity, continuous violence, and an
ultra-materialistic "cristal and versace" view of the world. But these are
only subcategories of wider genres, and there are rare gems (such as Jeru
the Damaja, and Wu-Tang Clan (in rap) and other Hindi and non-Desi flicks)
which are like diamonds in the rough...on occasion! My point is that the
Hindi movies propagate a false view of achievement and society to the
poorer strata of India, which creates false hopes and illusions in them
rather than an education - which is the same thing that rap music has done
in the United States...there is an indirect influence that certain styles
of rap music (not all) have on the violence on the streets of America's
big cities. Can anyone see a parallel in the violence and despair in
India, especially among the unprivileged strata?
> Can any one tell me about the influence of middle eastern money in hindi
> movie industry? I do not know much about it!!!!
I can make a hypothesis about this one...perhaps a lot of middle eastern
money has been pumped into the hindi movie business, especially since
there is a large audience for the films in the middle east. I might be too
bold, but do you think that the middle eastern fascination with big flashy
spectacles has led to the funding of movies without plots and just a lot
of singing and dancing, interrupted only by bad acting? I don't mean any
disrespect, but it is a though.
> Also, why use so much urdu words in
hindi movies. It has made
them > urdu movies now. Is that becase of middle eastern and pakistani
> inflience or to make everyone understand these "fantasi-movies."?
I couldn't say much about this. However, I did say that there is another
facet of hindi movie business which bothers me too...what happened to the
movies which depict secular India? Even Mani Ratnam and Jhamu Sughand seem
to be interested in just stories about Hindu-Muslim conflicts, Indian
Christians, etc....nothing wrong with those, but what about movies about
just regular Indian people, living their lives, without religion or
morality beign the main focus of the movie? There are many ways to tell a
story, and if this was followed, perhaps we could be more entertained and
educated (all levels of society) at once.
- Neil
> Please let me know. BTW, does anyone out there watch hindi movies
> regularly?
>
> Javed
>
>
>
There you go.
Neil
Siddhartha Duttagupta
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.970611202719.21444D-100000@post>,
Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>> Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
>> > Imperialism through trash-export
>
>being promoted through Films and TV is not Hindi but an Urduised
>Hindusthani which is more properly followed perhaps in Pakistan than in
>India. But I don't expect that nincompoof called Soumitra to understand
And "nincompooF" is a heavily Bengalised English?
next time stick to your "mukhey hegey debo " routine.Its sweeter.;))
regards, siddhartha
PS glad to see you are able to post on the net again.
ACHILA BAS
This is really funny