Bangladeshis take Hypocratic Oath (Re: What A Hypocrat/ite)
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Khaleda Zia said that the fundamentalist Jamaat-E-Islami campaigned
> against the Independence of Bangladesh.
> Well is that hypocracy or what?
> Typical Bangladeshi. Isn't she?
What do you mean? Hypocrisy is a Bangladeshi genetic trait?
What kind of self-loathing psyche is this..?
--
----------------------------------------------
Naeem Mohaiemen
na...@ix.netcom.com
nmoha...@aol.com
naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
naeem_m...@mercermc.com
http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
-----------------------------------------------
"Bengali, Bengali
Shelve your Western Plans"
['Bengali in Platforms'- Morrissey]
Soumitra Bose
There is somthing called"self-criticism-ism " or "self-cynicism" .
I think this is an affront on all bengalees to assert like that.
If it is really so why donot the author stop him/her consider as a
bangldeshi ..I am reminded of the first folk poet of BEngal Abdul HAkim
who for the first time started the concept of BEngalee nationalism . HE
went up to saying those who live in bengal and do not consider it their
own country and do not respect their own people are "bejonmas"
I appreciate the nettors concern but why put the blame of some corrupt
politicians on to every one ?
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> I think this is an affront on all bengalees to assert like that.
> If it is really so why donot the author stop him/her consider as a
> bangldeshi .......................................................
A person can be tall and fair simultaneously. There is no rule
that a tall person cannot be fair or a fair person cannot be
tall, because the length and the colour of the the skin are two
features of a person which are not mutually exclusive. Similarly
there is no problem if a person considers himself Bengali and
Bangladeshi simultaneously. You consider yourself a Bengali and
Indian simultaneously, is there anything wrong with that? You also
use the term West Bengali. Bangladeshi is a similar term used
instead of East Bengali ( because in the modern days East Bengal is
known as Bangladesh). It will make me very happy if we could use
the term Bengali in all sence. But one third of Bengal belongs
to India. IF they can EARN their INDEPENDENCE and join with the
Land of Bengalis, then we will have the opportunity to use
Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians, Bangladeshis, West
Bengalis etc. ( East Bengalis has already done their part of
EARNING INDEPENDENCE ).
---Zakir
Sumon Shahed
na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen ) wrote:
>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Opekkha-e roylam.
Anno-der khapanor age amrai-ba amon ki unnoto prani she-tao vaba uchit
noi ki ? ;)
Tobe relatively 'cha-er cup' -er beparta amoro mone hoi shotti...
Bangali bole zader eato gorbo tader 'New Market' (Nutun Bazar :))
er shob dokaner nam gulo an-no bhashai keno ?
Shevessha
Sumon
Naeem Mohaiemen
>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
Opekkha-e roylam.
--
__________________________________
Naeem Mohaiemen
na...@ix.netcom.com
nmoha...@aol.com
naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
naeem_m...@mercermc.com
http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
__________________________________
Dasgupta
Aro kho(n)cha maro mia. Amra jukti/abeg/torko/goppo kortey kortey finish
hoye jabo, kintu ora "je shob buro khoka bangla bhengey bhaag" korechchey,
tara telapokar moto bidwesh-o chchoriye diye gechchey. E kaam shohojey hoibona.
Kintu, tumi opekhkhatei thako bhai, ami lege porechchi.
Shoumyo.
sayan bhattacharyya
>
>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>
It must be remembered that linguistic or ethnic chauvinism is at least
as worse as religious chauvinism.
Suppose that Bengal becomes "independent" of India. What will likely
happen in such a case is that the oppressed masses in Bengal will then
continue to be oppressed by a pan-Bengali elite instead of by a pan-Indian
elite as before. So from the point of view of those oppressed, it will
change nothing.
Real "independence" comes with economic and political empowerment, end
of oppression, and establishment of social equality. For this, inclusion
within this country's political border or that country's, is completely
irrelevant. Marx and Engels said in the Communist Manifesto that "working
people have no country; they are international". While I disagree with
Marx on many points, I think that on this one point they were absolutely
correct.
-Sayan.
Soumitra Bose
>
>In article <4e780g$q...@cloner3.netcom.com>, soum...@ix.netcom.com
>(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>> I think this is an affront on all bengalees to assert like that.
>> If it is really so why donot the author stop him/her consider as a
>> bangldeshi .......................................................
>
>
>A person can be tall and fair simultaneously. There is no rule
>that a tall person cannot be fair or a fair person cannot be
>tall, because the length and the colour of the the skin are two
>features of a person which are not mutually exclusive. Similarly
>there is no problem if a person considers himself Bengali and
>Bangladeshi simultaneously. You consider yourself a Bengali and
>Indian simultaneously, is there anything wrong with that? You also
>use the term West Bengali. Bangladeshi is a similar term used
>instead of East Bengali ( because in the modern days East Bengal is
>known as Bangladesh). It will make me very happy if we could use
>to India. IF they can EARN their INDEPENDENCE and join with the
>Land of Bengalis, then we will have the opportunity to use
>EARNING INDEPENDENCE ).
>
>---Zakir
>
>
Wonderful kind of stuoid remarks and naivete to understand the reality.
WHo the hell said that BEngalis in India consider them
"not-independant"? PAkistanis behaved in a way in Pakistan with the
BEngalees , does in no way mean that the rest of Indians do the same
way with the bengalees. India is a multi-racial countr where
competition always goes on among linguistic nationalities.But we still
know how to live together even if we differ in many issues.Any country
which is formed from one language , one relgion, one race etc is
inherently fascist . The fact that the democractic process is still
going through a testing time in Bangladesh is because of this
psycho-fascism coming out of ultra-nationalism. Bangladeshis are
loosing the experience of living with neighbours together even in case
of differences.We have earned that.Hardly any bengali would be
available in Wbaengal to give up their Indian Identity , though they
would fight at the same time any imposition of any other culture on
them.That is the democratic principle of unity and struggle. Now many
naive intellectuals have vainly tried to inculcate their fascism within
Wbengal,They come to Calcutta to publish their books and views at a
cheaper rate from Cal and to a bigger audience and then after complete
"Bhuri bhoj" go back and shout with their fascist views.Nothing has
affected our Indianness , nor will antyhing affect our BEngaliness .If
you have a problem with that too bad so sad. WE are not going to make
it Saudi bangla nor a Hindu BAngla.
Soumitra Bose
) writes:
>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>
>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have
the
>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>
>
>
>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>
>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>
>Opekkha-e roylam.
>--
>__________________________________
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>
>na...@ix.netcom.com
>nmoha...@aol.com
>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>__________________________________
Kolkathar jonogon bale r nationalistic biplob koreo na , ba onno karo
sahajyo niye benche borte thake na . tara nijer chestai lorai shur
korechilo ajo ta cholche bibhinno rupe .Kolkata o Poschim banglar
jonogon manush ke mahush bole chinte shikheche , derite holeo ba
khunriye khunriye shikhechye , tara lungi tule dharmo ba jatiota dekhe
na , tara mehonoti manush er modhye bangalee obangalee bhed kore na .
Tai Hidni imposition er birudhe aj Shyamananda JAlane r moto
"oongobhashi bangaleerao" lore. Kolkatar jonogon ontoto ei ekta byapare
onke beshi insaan , kupomonduk noi.
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <4evt6h$1...@news.eecs.umich.edu>, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
SB> Real "independence" comes with economic and political empowerment, end
SB> of oppression, and establishment of social equality.
Gandhi believed real "independence" comes when the "soul is freed"
(according to Louis Fischer's biography). It is the belief in oneself
and self-confidence that frees the man from other shackles.
-Shubu
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shubu Mukherjee Univeristy of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
amitabha bandyopadhyay
In <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com> na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen
) writes:
>
>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>
>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have
the
>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>
>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>
What happens after W.Bengal becomes independent and joins Bangladesh?
67% of the population will be Muslims and they would be the ruling
elite? Hindus will suffer the same fate as they are suffering in
Bangladesh. They are second class citizens deprived of jobs, education,
and dignity as human beings. Rape of Hindu women, coercion and
humiliation are part of the Hindus life in Bangladesh. It is now a
Muslim nation with an agenda against all non-muslims.
See what they have done to the tribals of Chattogram. Hindu bengalies
have no fate in an unified Bengal because Muslims will never give up
there agenda of converting Hindus and dominating them as they have done
for centuries in Bengal.
Raja
T.H.Sanyal.
says:
>One dreams of times when nations will cease to exist, giving way to
>corporations. India will be replaced by India.inc.
>All laws will be corporate laws. And we will live happily ever after.
Or, the lawlessness of the corporations will rule as the law of God.
Good one, Indranil.
ths.
Dasgupta
has written in thie regard.
Shoumyo.
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
: What happens after W.Bengal becomes independent and joins Bangladesh?
: 67% of the population will be Muslims and they would be the ruling
: elite? Hindus will suffer the same fate as they are suffering in
: Bangladesh. They are second class citizens deprived of jobs, education,
: and dignity as human beings. Rape of Hindu women, coercion and
: humiliation are part of the Hindus life in Bangladesh. It is now a
: Muslim nation with an agenda against all non-muslims.
: See what they have done to the tribals of Chattogram. Hindu bengalies
: have no fate in an unified Bengal because Muslims will never give up
: there agenda of converting Hindus and dominating them as they have done
: for centuries in Bengal.
: Raja
I just want to record my objection to your stereotyping. My reading of
our history had told me that the single most important cause for many of
the trajedies of Bengal lie in the fission between the two prominent
religious communities of Bengal. My understanding of this dichotomy is
that the Bengali Hindus also had their share of blame.
This is a very busy time for me and I had planned to keep out of internet
for some time. However, your stereotyping of Bengali Muslims is dangerous
because it lumps the tolerant component with the intolerant components
among the Bengali Muslims.
We might have also avoided the trauma of partition if the Bengali
Bhadralok Hindu understood that under the democratic ethos Bengal would
be ruled by the Muslim Bengalis simply because they are the numerical
majority in Bengal. Recommended reading : "Bengal Divided-Joya chatterjee.
Having been born and brought up in a Bengali Hindu environment I can
personally vouchsafe that there is considerable stereotyping of the
Bengali Muslim in the Bengali Hindu mind. Reading some of the posts in
soc.culture.bengali and soc.culture.bangladesh as well as
soc.culture.india and soc.culture.pakistan, I think that there is a
corresponding stereotyping among the Muslims about the Hindus. It is time
that all of us understand that religion should be a private affair and
that involvement of religion in affairs of the state is a sure
prescription of misery.
I am not making any statement on the proposition that West Bengal should
separate and join Bangladesh to form a greater Bengali nation. The reason
I am not making any statement is that I am really pressed for time and
the issue deserves a treatment at a much detailed level than is possible
for me at this moment. However, is not one forgetting the Bengalis of
Assam, Bihar, UP and Orissa when discussing the topic of forming a
Bengali nation comprising of Bangladesh and West bengal?
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
B. Bhattacharya
>sayan bhattacharyya (bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu) wrote:
>[..]
>
>: Real "independence" comes with economic and political empowerment, end
>: of oppression, and establishment of social equality. For this, inclusion
>: within this country's political border or that country's, is completely
>: irrelevant. Marx and Engels said in the Communist Manifesto that "working
>: people have no country; they are international". While I disagree with
>: Marx on many points, I think that on this one point they were absolutely
>: correct.
>
>: -Sayan.
>
>corporations. India will be replaced by India.inc.
>All laws will be corporate laws. And we will live happily ever after.
>
>
Pardon my naivette, but what is wrong with a working man feeling
patriotic, or wanting to belong to some country/ethnicity? Is it
necessary that by virtue of one's willingness to work, one has to give up
all other identities?
Thanks,
Baidurya.
Indranil DasGupta
PSAHA
be one country, I don't agree with that. As a Bangladeshi we are alright.
Soumitra Bose
I completely endorse the views of Nalinaksha .
Parmeshwar Coomar
>
>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>
>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>
>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>
>
>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>
>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>
>Opekkha-e roylam.
>--
>__________________________________
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>
>na...@ix.netcom.com
>nmoha...@aol.com
>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>__________________________________
Dadara toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori- gano projantantro
bharoter poishai kori. Amra bharoter odhin ba swadhen hothe jabo kano? Amra tho
bharoter ak bishesh anggo. Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader shikhai.
Apnader Pakistaner shathe balobasha meeta jathe pare thobe amader ak chokhe
dhekben na. Amra BHAROTER shathe bhalo ahchhi. JAI HIND!!!
Naeem Mohaiemen
>toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori
Orthath? Bangladesh er thoofan onnyer poisha-e?
>Amra bharotke shikhai
Bote..
>amader ak chokhe dhekben na
>JAI HIND!!!
Besh tho civilized debate hocchilo, ekhane abar eyshob "JAI" itthyadi
prolap insert korthe gelen keno?
lembu pani khan, matha thanda hobe :-)
--
__________________________________
Naeem Mohaiemen
na...@ix.netcom.com
nmoha...@aol.com
naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
naeem_m...@mercermc.com
http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
__________________________________
"There was an unimportant fire in the London
borough of Camden on 20 Nov.No alarm rang,
the fire extinguishers were empty, the exits
were blocked.
Mrs. Abdul Karim, A Bangladeshi woman, and her
5 year-old son and 3 year old daughter died of
suffocation. They had been housed in London Lets
at 280 Pds a week. Death-traps are not always
economical, it would appear."
["An Unimportant Fire"-Salman Rushdie/1984]
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> .........................................Hardly any bengali would be
> available in Wbaengal to give up their Indian Identity.............
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;
Your words sound like the words of our father's generation. During 40's
and 50's most of the East Bengalis loved to think them as a Pakistani.
It took 25 years for the East Bengalis to realize how FALSE that sence
of belongingness was. May be it will take 75 years in your case. I
heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi. The status of
West Bengalis in India hurts the pride of the East Bengalis ( along
with the fact that success of people like Sattajit Ray etc. make
us very very proud) after all we belong to the same culture.
Shoumitra, I know that you will give a big lecture,but the truth is
the political and economic power in India are still concentrated
on the hands of West Indians.
---Zakir
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> ..........................................................Nothing has
> affected our Indianness , nor will antyhing affect our BEngaliness .If
> you have a problem with that too bad so sad..........................
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I am not upset or sad with your Indianness or Bengaliness. It
is you who complained against the use of the word Bangladeshi.
If your Indianness does not affect your Bengaliness, Why
sombody's Bangladeshiness will affect his Bengaliness?
---Zakir
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> ............................... India is a multi-racial countr where
> competition always goes on among linguistic nationalities..........
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
You may think it as a competition, but I will say it exploitation.
East Indian states are basically hinterland of West India. I
can give you references of west Bengali writers who think in
the same way. Actually in 1947 India was divided for the
convience of exploitation. West Indian Muslims and Hindus
avoided the competition in that way. They were the leaders
of Muslim League and Congress respectively. They never allowed
pararrel leadership fron East India. Congress kicked out
Shubash Bose and Muslim league kicked out Fazlul Haque
---Zakir
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> .........................................................Any country
> which is formed from one language , one relgion, one race etc is
> inherently fascist .................................................
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I must admit that I don't have enough knowledge to understand this.
If the above is true then the definition of COUNTRY is inherently
fascist. OR what do think, sould be the definition of a country.
Again what is the basis of your Indian nationalism? Why do you
think that a person from Kerala is closer to you than a person
from Burma? Though the later is geographically is much closer to
you?
You also praised Poet Abdul Hakim for propagating the idea of
Bengali Nationalism, though you hate linguistic nationalism.
Let me ask you one question: everybody says to love all human
beings equally, but the fact is everybody has a special feelings
for his family members. Do you think that is bad or fascist?
---Zakir
mer...@engvms.unl.edu
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> ................................................... Bangladeshis are
> loosing the experience of living with neighbours together even in case
> of differences.We have earned that..................................
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
True. But Bangladesh is gaining great experience of living with
it's neighbour India, along with Muslim majority Pakistan,
Hindu majority Nepal, Buddist majority Sri Lanka and communist
China. I don't understand why India's leaders from Uttar Pradesh
which has earned experience about how to live with
neighbours have failed to develop a good relation with
ANY of it's neighbours.
---Zakir
Soumitra Bose
(Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>
>In article <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com>, na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem
Mohaiemen ) says:
>>
>>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>
>>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have
the
>>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>>
>>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>>
>>Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
>>
>>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>>
>>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>>
>>Opekkha-e roylam.
>>__________________________________
>>Naeem Mohaiemen
>>
>>na...@ix.netcom.com
>>nmoha...@aol.com
>>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>>__________________________________
>
projantantro
>bharoter poishai kori. Amra bharoter odhin ba swadhen hothe jabo kano?
Amra tho
>bharoter ak bishesh anggo. Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader
shikhai.
>
>Apnader Pakistaner shathe balobasha meeta jathe pare thobe amader ak
chokhe
>dhekben na. Amra BHAROTER shathe bhalo ahchhi. JAI HIND!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
nijeder poishai kori , onner kache dhar kori na , ba onner dike tirher
kaker moto cheye thaki na .
Soumitra Bose
Mohaiemen ) writes:
>>coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>
>>toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori
>
>Orthath? Bangladesh er thoofan onnyer poisha-e?
>
>>Amra bharotke shikhai
>
>Bote..
>
>>amader ak chokhe dhekben na
>>JAI HIND!!!
>
>Besh tho civilized debate hocchilo, ekhane abar eyshob "JAI" itthyadi
>prolap insert korthe gelen keno?
>
>lembu pani khan, matha thanda hobe :-)
>--
jemon Joi bangla . Amra ki lafalafi korechi . Nijer desh sommondhe Joi
dewota oporadher kothai .Se to ar kauke gal deini, nijer desher
joiodhoni diyeche tate tomar ushmar karon ki . Bangalee 1859 theke sara
bharotborsho mukto korar jonne loreche , alada kore banglar jonne to
lore ni. \Keu jodi du mnombori kore tate onner opor rag kore nijer nak
katar dorkar ki shuni. Amader kaj amra korbo , age bangla i shudhu ektu
onnorokom bhabto , ajke somosto purbo-bharot se pothe vbhabche , kalke
shara bharoti se pothe bhabbe , amra ki bhoi peye nijer ghore sendhobo
naki.
MANZUR MORSHED
In article <4f6sju$h...@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com> coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>From: coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar)
>
>>In article <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com>, na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen ) says:
>>
>>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>
>>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>>
>>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>>
>>Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
>>
>>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>>
>>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>>
>>Opekkha-e roylam.
>>--
>>__________________________________
>>Naeem Mohaiemen
>>
>>na...@ix.netcom.com
>>nmoha...@aol.com
>>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>>__________________________________
>
>Dadara toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori- gano projantantro
>bharoter poishai kori. Amra bharoter odhin ba swadhen hothe jabo kano? Amra tho
>bharoter ak bishesh anggo.
Obosh-shoii, Obosh-shoii toofan apnara apnader babar, bharoter poishai
korben na to ki Bangladesher poishai korben naki! Tobe apnader ei
cha-er cup e toofan tolar baparta kintu shorbojon bidito, ar ei
baparta jodi Olempic er ekta event hoy tobe apnader pokkhe kintu empty
field e gole di-e gold medel ta nite ektu o koshto hobe na. Naeem babu
to apnader ei exceptional gun tir i kirton korechen, dosher ki bolun?
>Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader shikhai.
Ta Parmeshwar babu apnara bharot ke ki shekhan? Ta ki ei rokom :-
a) Kivabe Bangladesh ke Gangar panir nej-jo paona theke bonchito kora jabe.
b) Kivabe Chakmader ke ushkani di-e Bangladesh ke betibasto rakha jabe.
c) Kivabe Nepal theke cheap rate er pathor (Stone) kena theke
Bangladesh ke bonchito rakha jabe.
d) Bangladesh jate economically developed hote na pare tar jonno
shobrokom cheshta kora.
etc. etc. etc...........
>Apnader Pakistaner shathe balobasha meeta jathe pare thobe amader ak chokhe
>dhekben na. Amra BHAROTER shathe bhalo ahchhi. JAI HIND!!!
>
Prarthona kori apnara BHAROTER shathe bhalo thakun shustho thakun ar
ontor (Heart) ta ke Pecific ocean er moto na hole o ontoto Indian
ocean er moto proshosto korun. Amra gorib hole o shadhin achi, valo
achi kahake o hujur hujur korte hoy na. BANGLADESH JINDABAD.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
mor...@csce.kyushu-u.ac.jp (Manzur Morshed)
Department of Computer Science and Communication Engineering
Faculty of Engineering, Kyushu University
Fukuoka, 812 JAPAN
Soumitra Bose
berote hobe .Sara jibon gundami kore ar 7oi Marche gola fatiye
che(N)chiye ekmatro Bangladeshei jatir pita howa jai. Jai hok
Bangladesher sadharon loker pechoner kapor dewoar obostha nei, tader
poisha kothai je amra tar poishai toofan tulbo.Bharot amader baba noi
,Amader MA , Matribhumi.Amra tar jonne lori , toofan tar jonnei tuli .
Cha er Cupei jodi hoi setao to kabliat. Onner theke dhar kore lafai na.
Amra shob nijeder khomotai kori .Hari jiti amader mathabyatha, jara
konodin nijeder paiye da(n)rate janlo na , nijeder producing force
shoshon kore Singapore e nati r jonmodin e bajar korte ashe ar je
desher mohan Bilpobira porjonto NY majhe majhe bideshi(NGO) poishai
biplob korte ashe(ekhon ekjon lecture diye berachhen) tader kach theke
jotodin eishob gyan na niye thakte pari totodini bhalo thakbo.
MANZUR MORSHED
There are some part which has been missed unfortunately, so I repost the reply.
>In article <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com>, na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen ) says:
>>
>>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>
>>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>>
>>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>>
>>Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
>>
>>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>>
>>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>>
>>Opekkha-e roylam.
>>--
>>__________________________________
>>Naeem Mohaiemen
>>
>>na...@ix.netcom.com
>>nmoha...@aol.com
>>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>>__________________________________
>
>Dadara toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori- gano
projantantro bharoter poishai kori. Amra bharoter odhin ba swadhen
hothe jabo kano?
Obosh-shoii, Obosh-shoii toofan apnara apnader babar, bharoter poishai
korben na to ki Bangladesher poishai korben naki! Tobe apnader ei
cha-er cup e toofan tolar baparta kintu shorbojon bidito, ar ei
baparta jodi Olempic er ekta event hoy tobe apnader pokkhe kintu empty
field e gole di-e gold medel ta nite ektu o koshto hobe na. Naeem babu
to apnader ei exceptional gun tir i kirton korechen, dosher ki bolun?
>Amra tho bharoter ak bishesh anggo.
Apnara bharoter ak bishesh onggo! Bujhlam na Parmeshwar babu ki rokom
bishesh onggo apnara. Tobe ki apnara bharoter oi Tamilnadu, Panjab,
Kashmir, Tripura, Nagaland er moto bishesh onggo? O-der kintu khu-ub
himmoth ache. Jemon dhorun Tamilnadu te Hindi vasha (language) ta
kintu ekhon porjnoto 2nd stage to durer khotha 3rd stage ei ekhono
shon-man nie darate pareni, ar ek-ii shathe kolkatar obosthar kothata
chinta korun, dekhben Hindi vasha ta to prothom class bote-ii uporunto
kolkatar jonogoner mother tounge (Bangla vasha) ta ekhon tader jonno
dead language hote choleche. Parmeshwar babu apnader patriotism ta
kintu besh khurdhar patriotism, jetate shekhbar moto kichu na
thakle-o, dekhbar moto onek kichu ache.
>Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader shikhai.
Ta Parmeshwar babu apnara bharot ke ki shekhan? Ta ki ei rokom :-
a) Kivabe Bangladesh ke Gangar panir nej-jo paona theke bonchito kora jabe.
b) Kivabe Chakmader ke ushkani di-e Bangladesh ke betibasto rakha jabe.
c) Kivabe Nepal theke cheap rate er pathor (Stone) kena theke
Bangladesh ke bonchito rakha jabe.
d) Bangladesh jate economically developed hote na pare tar jonno
shobrokom cheshta korte hobe.
Amitabha Bandyopadhyay
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
----------------------------------------------
My point of view:
I think that your ideas are at par with that of most so-called Bengali
intellectuals or liberalists, i.e. to say that you are not in touch with
reality. The reality is that Bangladesh is right now a Muslim country
which has forsaken its committment to secularism. You have probably
never been a citizen of Bangladesh or stayed over their for a long time.
My family comes from Narayangunj. The reason my family fled was because
the family servants who were muslims started killing and looting. We
lost a few family members. This is not only my story. I have heard the
same story repeated over and over again, from the maid who took care of
me. She fled from Khulna, once (1946 census) a Hindu-majority district.
I have heard it from the rickshaw driver in Murshidabad who fled
Dinajpur. In the countryside, the story goes like this. The local thugs
and village elders, mostly Muslims and sometimes colloborating Hindus
who want to save their skin, round up minorities from the villages, give
them some money and ask them to leave within a given period. If they
don't there is extortion. The first to leave are families with young
girls who fear them being taken away forcibly. Then they leave one by
one, emptying village after village. The thugs acquire all the property
under the 'Enemy property Act'. Mr. Bhattacharya my ideas do not come
from reading very thick books or great philosophy. I talk to real people
and hear real stories. None of the people I talked to have any hatred
towards Muslims, neither do I. In fact most of them recollect with a
tinge of sadness how they miss the good old times when everything was
hunkydory. However, all I am saying is accept reality and don't run
after utopian dreams. The Bangladesh that you and I would wish is no
more. There is very little place left for Hindus as a communtiy in
Bangladesh. I don't care if Shamsur Rehman is exchanging notes with
Sunil Gangopadhay, what I am interested in is if the commoner is leading
a secure life. Nowhere in my post I stereotyped muslims. I have deep
regards for their religion and culture. I have seen many so-called
intellectual friends sitting on the staircases of Presidency college and
dreaming such dreams; what I am saying is that be aware of reality. The
reality is that Hindus are being sidelined in every aspect of
Bangladesh's politico-economic life. It is very difficult for the Hindus
who have a higher percentage of educated people, to get jobs. Most
Hindus are migrating from villages to cities or to West Bengal. Places
like Chattogram,etc hotbeds for Jamaat,etc are dangerous for all
minorities. Most hindus now move to small business in order to support
their family. Only last year hindus got permission to lead Janmastami
processions in Dhaka. When you talk of Bengali unity you forget certain
historical facts. Since 25 years of nationhood Bangladesh has never
publicly acknowleged the enormous humiliation the hindus had to go
through at the hand of Pakis. None of the killers were arrested.
Bangladesh has never asked or taken initiative to ensure that the
millions of Hindus displaced by the war return to their country. My
feeling is that those in Govt. think that we are good riddance. This is
why my generation has no love for Bangladesh though theoritically my
family has lived there probably for eons. Many say so what: are the
Muslims in W. Bengal any better? I say yes at least under the communists
they are much better, they have a chance to live with human dignity.
Hindus in Bangladesh are garbage, except perhaps the rich who can pay
their way through. Mr. Bhattacharya these word may appear strong to you
but they come from a hurt soul, a soul that yearns for Bangladesh but
knows will never be able to be part of it.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>gundami kore..ekmatro Bangladeshei jatir pita howa jai
Keno, Indira gandhi o tho goonda
-Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale er mritho deho
-Emergency Rule
-Naxal
>Onner theke dhar kore lafai na
Orthath 71 e shob kichu dhar kore lafano?
>desher mohan Bilpobira porjonto NY majhe majhe bideshi(NGO) poishai
>biplob korte ashe(ekhon ekjon lecture diye berachhen)
Farhad Mazhar? :-)
--
__________________________________
Naeem Mohaiemen
na...@ix.netcom.com
__________________________________
Indranil DasGupta
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
: I think that your ideas are at par with that of most so-called Bengali
: intellectuals or liberalists, i.e. to say that you are not in touch with
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: reality. The reality is that Bangladesh is right now a Muslim country
The above is an unproven accusation (i.e I am not in touch with reality)
: which has forsaken its committment to secularism. You have probably
: never been a citizen of Bangladesh or stayed over their for a long time.
: My family comes from Narayangunj. The reason my family fled was because
: the family servants who were muslims started killing and looting. We
: lost a few family members. This is not only my story. I have heard the
My parents originated in Sylhet. I have never been to Sylhet. I know
Sylheti. I was born and brought up in Assam. I have experience of a
different kind of discrimination and rioting- that done by the Assamese
against the Bengalis. I can understand the rage and anger one feels when
one is the victim of terrorism by an organised band with overt or covert
state support. The point is that in this thread we were not discussing
the discriminatory behaviour done by a section of the Bangladeshis
against the minorities with the overt or covert support of their
government. You are welcome to highlight the case of atrocities against
Hindus in Bangladesh. What I objected to is your stereotyping the whole
of Bengali Muslims in a very negative fashion.
: same story repeated over and over again, from the maid who took care of
: me. She fled from Khulna, once (1946 census) a Hindu-majority district.
: I have heard it from the rickshaw driver in Murshidabad who fled
: Dinajpur. In the countryside, the story goes like this. The local thugs
: and village elders, mostly Muslims and sometimes colloborating Hindus
: who want to save their skin, round up minorities from the villages, give
: them some money and ask them to leave within a given period. If they
: don't there is extortion. The first to leave are families with young
: girls who fear them being taken away forcibly. Then they leave one by
: one, emptying village after village. The thugs acquire all the property
I am quite sure that your narrations are true. However, they do not
indicate that the whole of Bengali Muslims need to be tarred with the
same brush. The stories of discrimination and oppression have one element
in common. They vividly illustrate what happens when religion is allowed
to have a say in public affairs. I have come across Muslim accounts that
sound remarkably like your account except in those narrations Hindus are
blamed.
: under the 'Enemy property Act'. Mr. Bhattacharya my ideas do not come
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: from reading very thick books or great philosophy. I talk to real people
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would highly recommend that you also try to formulate some of your
ideas by reading books. I have discovered the following after reading books.
-that Hindus in Bengal did not accept food from Muslims.
-that Zaminders and Money lenders were mostly Hindu.
-that the Hindus considered the touch of Muslims to be polluting.
-that the Congress sidelined popular mass based leaders of Bengal like
Sarat Bose and Subhas Bose and propped up stooges like Bidhan Roy (yes
the same B.C.Roy of Bengal who agreed to freight equalisation policy and
got show pieces like Kalyani and Durgapur).
: and hear real stories. None of the people I talked to have any hatred
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: towards Muslims, neither do I. In fact most of them recollect with a
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: tinge of sadness how they miss the good old times when everything was
: hunkydory. However, all I am saying is accept reality and don't run
: after utopian dreams. The Bangladesh that you and I would wish is no
: more. There is very little place left for Hindus as a communtiy in
: Bangladesh. I don't care if Shamsur Rehman is exchanging notes with
: Sunil Gangopadhay, what I am interested in is if the commoner is leading
: a secure life. Nowhere in my post I stereotyped muslims. I have deep
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: regards for their religion and culture. I have seen many so-called
I quote from your earlier post.
QUOTE
What happens after W.Bengal becomes independent and joins Bangladesh?
67% of the population will be Muslims and they would be the ruling
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
See what they have done to the tribals of Chattogram. Hindu bengalies
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
have no fate in an unified Bengal because Muslims will never give up
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
there agenda of converting Hindus and dominating them as they have done
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
for centuries in Bengal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UNQUOTE
I maintain that your post shows clear evidence of sterotyping.
: historical facts. Since 25 years of nationhood Bangladesh has never
: publicly acknowleged the enormous humiliation the hindus had to go
: through at the hand of Pakis. None of the killers were arrested.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
May I point out that Bangladesh cannot possibly have any responsibility
for the action of Pakistanis. Also isn't it true that Bangladesh has not
punished the Rajakars that raped and murdered Bengali Muslims also. The
trajedy of rapists and murderers going scot free is not a Hindu trajedy,
rather it is a Bengali trajedy.
The topic of this thread was whether West Bengal and Bangladesh should
join to make a Bengali nation. If your contention is that at present such
a scenario is unlikely because of the present dominance of fundamentalism in
Bangladesh Politics, then say so. What I object to is your stereotyping
the Bengali Muslims as rapists and oppressors of Hindus? Our forefathers
cultivated these stereotypes and the result was disasterous. It is upto
us to work towards rectifying that mistake.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
T.H.Sanyal.
<aban...@aecom.yu.edu> says:
>My family comes from Narayangunj. The reason my family fled was because
>the family servants who were muslims started killing and looting. We
Servants? Plural? You had servants and you are wondering why the
servants might not have taken too kindly to their masters? There is
clearly a class dimension in your story.
>under the 'Enemy property Act'. Mr. Bhattacharya my ideas do not come
>from reading very thick books or great philosophy. I talk to real people
>and hear real stories. None of the people I talked to have any hatred
>towards Muslims, neither do I. In fact most of them recollect with a
>tinge of sadness how they miss the good old times when everything was
>hunkydory. However, all I am saying is accept reality and don't run
And you have never heard stories of Hindus killing Muslims, is that it?
Did you ever wonder whether everything was hunkydory for the servants
of your family?
>dreaming such dreams; what I am saying is that be aware of reality. The
>reality is that Hindus are being sidelined in every aspect of
>Bangladesh's politico-economic life. It is very difficult for the Hindus
It is also a reality that Calcutta and West Bengal matters little in
the larger scheme of things known as the Sovereign Secular Socialist
Democratic Republic of India.
ths.
K.M. Maniruzzaman
>
> In article <4f6sju$h...@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com> coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>
> There are some part which has been missed unfortunately, so I repost the reply.
>
Fortunately, we didn't really 'miss' it.
Manir
------------------------------------------
Economically, these days, there is no national
sovereignty. Strategically, borders are becoming
meaningless. Scientifically, only the globe and the
universe matter. What is left that is ours? Culture
and historical memories expressed in our language.
--Shimon Peres.
Coomar
>>coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>
>>toofan kori ar nai kori ta amader babar poishai kori
>
>Orthath? Bangladesh er thoofan onnyer poisha-e?
>
Bangladesher poisha acch -e? Amar jana chhelo na? Bangladesh neje khete
pai na - aber porke khawabe?
>>Amra bharotke shikhai
>
Bhule jaben na bharoter kacch theke amrao onek shikhechi!! Bharot amader
'ultimate guaranteer of peace' - to keep of the neighboring wolves that
are planning to destroy us - by this forcible "anchluss" er mane janen
ki?
>Bote..
>
>>amader ak chokhe dhekben na
>>JAI HIND!!!
>
Bote - e -tho???? Bangladesher aurthat East Pakisthaner bhalobasa "
...... murgi pooosa" Apnara kobe je kake bhalobasen!!!! Apnara jodi
"Allah Ho Akbar" bolte paren thobe amrai ba kano 'JAI HIND' bolbo na.
Apnara tho kono din-e- secular cheelan na - thobe Bharoter kaach theke
shikhun!!! We love and honor our muslim citizens .......Hind shune kharap
laglo naki - thobe 'Islamic Republic' shune kharap lager khotha noi!!!
United Bengaler - shai nam hobbe naki??
>Besh tho civilized debate hocchilo, ekhane abar eyshob "JAI" itthyadi
>prolap insert korthe gelen keno?
>
>lembu pani khan, matha thanda hobe :-)
>--
>__
Amar lembu pani khaowar aaggee apni shopno dakha chHere din!!!! JAI HIND
JAI HIND JAI HIND JAI HIND .................................morreee jabo
thobuo Bharot charbo na!!!!!!
________________________________
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>
>na...@ix.netcom.com
>nmoha...@aol.com
>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>__________________________________
>"There was an unimportant fire in the London
> borough of Camden on 20 Nov.No alarm rang,
> the fire extinguishers were empty, the exits
> were blocked.
> Mrs. Abdul Karim, A Bangladeshi woman, and her
> 5 year-old son and 3 year old daughter died of
> suffocation. They had been housed in London Lets
> at 280 Pds a week. Death-traps are not always
> economical, it would appear."
>["An Unimportant Fire"-Salman Rushdie/1984]
so why are you guys after Salman Rushdie - is persecution common
behaviour in your culture!!!!!
Naeem Mohaiemen
>heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi.
When Aparna Sen visited Dhaka a couple of years back, she wrote about
the experience of landing in ZIA airport and noticing with pleasant
surprise that the taxi license plates were in Bengali.
--
Naeem Mohaiemen
na...@ix.netcom.com
______________________________________________________
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Bangladesher poisha acch -e? Amar jana chhelo na? Bangladesh neje
>khete pai na - aber porke khawabe?
Oh ho, mokkhom khocha! Byatha peyechi, byatha peyechi. Ammu bari jabo,
ar khelbo na! I think I will curl up and hide from your shukkho
sarcasm.
[as the kids would say: NOT!]
>Apnara jodi "Allah Ho Akbar" bolte paren thobe amrai ba kano 'JAI
>HIND' bolbo na.
Asholeo tho. Amar post e tho ami "Allah Hu Akbar" diechilam! Dekhie
deowar jonnyo dhonnyobad. Invisible ink die kora tho..
>Apnara tho kono din-e- secular cheelan na - thobe Bharoter kaach theke
>shikhun!!!
Bote :-)
>We love and honor our muslim citizens
Heh heh. Bhanu mara jai ni. Punorjonmo labh koreche amader i majhe.
Dekhun moshai, I will not claim we treat our Hindu community well. On a
state level, our treatment of them has often been shameful.
But please don't try to tell me that Indian state is a model of
behavior towards Muslim community.
Patriotism thakuk bhalo kotha. Kinthu etho boro blinder chokhe.
Bangladesh nie gorbo kori, kinthu thar dosh bolthe lojja kori na.
Apnar tha nei.
>JAI HIND JAI HIND JAI HIND JAI HIND
>morreee jabo thobuo Bharot charbo na!!!!!!
Thai dekhchi... :-)
>so why are you guys after Salman Rushdie - is persecution common
>behaviour in your culture!!!!!
Pagol er prolap. Lekhapora korun. Na jene baje boken na.
Khomeini mane amar Islam noi.
Salman Rushdie onek ojotha khuchie kotha lekhe. Kinthu ami lekhok-er
shadhinotha e bishyashi.
Soumitra Bose
>
>Apnara bharoter ak bishesh onggo! Bujhlam na Parmeshwar babu ki rokom
>bishesh onggo apnara. Tobe ki apnara bharoter oi Tamilnadu, Panjab,
>Kashmir, Tripura, Nagaland er moto bishesh onggo? O-der kintu khu-ub
>himmoth ache. Jemon dhorun Tamilnadu te Hindi vasha (language) ta
>kintu ekhon porjnoto 2nd stage to durer khotha 3rd stage ei ekhono
>shon-man nie darate pareni, ar ek-ii shathe kolkatar obosthar kothata
>chinta korun, dekhben Hindi vasha ta to prothom class bote-ii uporunto
>kolkatar jonogoner mother tounge (Bangla vasha) ta ekhon tader jonno
>dead language hote choleche. Parmeshwar babu apnader patriotism ta
>kintu besh khurdhar patriotism, jetate shekhbar moto kichu na
>thakle-o, dekhbar moto onek kichu ache.
Kolkata ke jibone na-dekhar oporadh shudhu na ,kolkata sommondhe karo
kache jibone kichu na shonar gordhobhamo eta . Kichui janen na , lekhen
biggyer moto. BAngl chara kolkatar loke ki bhashai kotha bole tahole?
ontoto kolkatar lokera je bhasahe kotha bolbar kotha bole se bhasha ta
uccharon korte jane . je bhashai lekhe se bhashai bhikhirio kotha bole.
Kolkatar o-bongobhashirao banglai i besh-songkhok kotha bole .utai
mojar amra onnoder amader bhasha sekhai , jor kore noi , porisbesher
moddhye diye .Tai amrao bharoth ke shikhai Parameswar er kotha sorboibo
sotho.
>
>
>>Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader shikhai.
>
>Ta Parmeshwar babu apnara bharot ke ki shekhan? Ta ki ei rokom :-
>
>a) Kivabe Bangladesh ke Gangar panir nej-jo paona theke bonchito kora
jabe.
>
Ota Poschim bongo sekhai na . Poschim bongo o tar manush ache bole aj
porjonto BD er opor kono a(n)chor pore ni.Shudhu poschim banglar jonnoi
Tinbigha apnara peyechen.Poschim banglar sathe BD er bojjat netara
jogajog rekhe cholle Bd er onek upokari hoto.
>b) Kivabe Chakmader ke ushkani di-e Bangladesh ke betibasto rakha
jabe.
>
Ulte etao bola jai je Bd ke ISI er ghanti kore WBengal er birudhe
sursuri dewoa . Sorkar er lorai apni ghare kore nen keno? Apni ki
Sorkari dalal naki?
>c) Kivabe Nepal theke cheap rate er pathor (Stone) kena theke
>Bangladesh ke bonchito rakha jabe.
>
Bangladeshe to jekono jinisher dami US er dollar conversion er poreo
beshi. Kono Shubhobudhhisomponno lok keno BD theke jinish kinbe ?
Nijeder economy r barota bajiye rekhe onnoke dosh diye labh .Ei dekhun
na Bharot Sorkar kerokom notice diye Bd e dakati korche. Apnader murad
nei PeyaNj rasun folanor othocho shudhu mangsho khan , tai bharoth
cheap rate onion dei , somosto bd i ta kinte badho hoi. Kar doshe? KEno
bd nije onion ba rasun ba hansher dim pholiye WBengale bikri kore na .
Wbengal er industrialist ra gechilo ei bolte je jodi BD e industry hoi
tobe eastern india r labh hoi . kono shala shunlo na tara India theke
smuggle kore tader cheleder bidheshe pathanor taka jogar korte udgrib.
AMader musalmanera ekhon ei sujog nichhe ,tara nijera mohish kheye shob
goru bd e pachar kore dei ar prochur poisha pai. Ami nije onek border
er mussalmanke jiggesh kore dekhechi , tara porishkar bole , "ora to
bojhe na, tai amra mohish khai ar oder theke poisha kamai".
>d) Bangladesh jate economically developed hote na pare tar jonno
>shobrokom cheshta korte hobe.
>
Kono desher economic development korbe she desher loke , soto badhate o
ta egiye jai , nijera nijeder pa kete onner opor chellale ja phol hoi
ta to dekhai jache. emon ki Wbengal er mussalmanrao bujhe geche ki kore
Bd ke boka banano jai .
>etc. etc. etc...........
>
>
>>Apnader Pakistaner shathe balobasha meeta jathe pare thobe amader ak
chokhe
>>dhekben na. Amra BHAROTER shathe bhalo ahchhi. JAI HIND!!!
>
>Prarthona kori apnara BHAROTER shathe bhalo thakun shustho thakun ar
>ontor (Heart) ta ke Pecific ocean er moto na hole o ontoto Indian
>ocean er moto proshosto korun. Amra gorib hole o shadhin achi, valo
>achi kahake o hujur hujur korte hoy na. BANGLADESH JINDABAD.
>--
Prthibir emon developed desh ki ache jake huzur huzur BD kore na. Emon
ekti bochor geche jokhon bhikher jhuli niye dore dore ghurte hoi ni Bd
ke? Shob cheye boro shotru Bharoter kache o se shob byapare hat pete
ahcye .\Pakistan protimuhurte Bharoter sathe lorai koreo Bharoth ke MFN
declare kore.Byabshai ora seyana.DElhi te shobcheye boro commercial
expo dei ei shomoieo ar shobcheye beshi Bharoter market dokhol korte
egiye ashe . ar bangladesh Saudi banglar Khulafat Rashidun er swapo
dkehe che(n)ra ka(n)thai shue.
Soumitra Bose
Mohaiemen) writes:
>
>>soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>>gundami kore..ekmatro Bangladeshei jatir pita howa jai
>
>Keno, Indira gandhi o tho goonda
>
>-Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale er mritho deho
>-Emergency Rule
>-Naxal
>
>>Onner theke dhar kore lafai na
>
>Orthath 71 e shob kichu dhar kore lafano?
>
korar Wbangel line ke oshikar kore "swadhinota orjon" oboshoi dhar kore
lafano, ar tar jonnei to "Muktijoddara" Wbengal e Sidharto ray er kach
tehke bina poishar rationer jonne biplobider dhoriye diyechielo South o
North Subruban onchole ?Oishob chotoloki dalali ki Bangldesh
swadhinotar ongo naki?
>>desher mohan Bilpobira porjonto NY majhe majhe bideshi(NGO) poishai
>>biplob korte ashe(ekhon ekjon lecture diye berachhen)
>
>Farhad Mazhar? :-)
>--
Of Course !!! AMi to Ebengal er emon ki CPM ba Congress er kono neta ke
nijer ba partyr poishai bidesh ghurte dekhi na . Mohan agunkheko
biplobira kintu Bd theke shoja ekhane ure ashen .NGO r poisha ki plane
fare er jonno?
Soumitra Bose
writes:
were servants have a right to kill and loot!.YEs how come the fact that
the muslims were servants did not raise an eyebrow, how come they were
treated as servants .What did that person mean ? that servants should
always be servants? It is a matter of pride that the "servants" rose up
and looted all the property which has been accumulated on their
sweat.No wonder My forefathers are kicked out of EBengal . THen thye
came over to Wbengal and got another big thud at the back , then our
generation came to senses .We have now build up lal bangla.
Soumitra Bose
>
>In article <4eutts$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, soum...@ix.netcom.com
Today the whole of Eastern India thinks the way BEngal thinks ,
tomorrow Up would follow and just wait to see the India barring a few
western states follow suit. We would never leave the battle-ground.
Soumitra Bose
>
>In article <4eutts$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, soum...@ix.netcom.com
This is the problem.You would keep wondering throughout your life ,as
you would always wonder about the leaders. THe Indian Leadership is
reactionary but they get fixed up by the people from time to time .
Indian people do not wonder, they keep on fighting and achieving their
targets.So today whatever they are tomorrow they have to be better,as
they are always caned by the people .
Soumitra Bose
>
>In article <4eutts$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, soum...@ix.netcom.com
>(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>> which is formed from one language , one relgion, one race etc is
>> inherently fascist .................................................
>::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
>
>I must admit that I don't have enough knowledge to understand this.
>If the above is true then the definition of COUNTRY is inherently
>fascist. OR what do think, sould be the definition of a country.
>Again what is the basis of your Indian nationalism? Why do you
>think that a person from Kerala is closer to you than a person
>from Burma? Though the later is geographically is much closer to
>you?
Where it is found that a Country has to be uni-racial,uni-lingual
etc....
WE share the common history thru anti-colonial struggle .This has been
re-inforced indirectly byu the fact that not a single leader of the
Pakistani movement ever visited BRitish jails when all the NAtionlist
Muslim leaders of all parties were tortured .WE feel close to a
keralite as he/she has shared the same fate from 1757 down to now even
after 1947.SHARING IS THE KEY.
>
>You also praised Poet Abdul Hakim for propagating the idea of
>Bengali Nationalism, though you hate linguistic nationalism.
>Let me ask you one question: everybody says to love all human
>beings equally, but the fact is everybody has a special feelings
>for his family members. Do you think that is bad or fascist?
>
>---Zakir
>
When did Abdul HAkim say anything against India. How come one has to
hate others while loving one's family .We are BEngalees , we Love
therefore our BAngla and bengalees most and therefore the Bangladeshee
brothers and sisters , but we are Indians too. We will fight and
compete, not fight billigerently .
Soumitra Bose
>
>In article <4eutts$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, soum...@ix.netcom.com
>(Soumitra Bose ) writes:
>
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>> available in Wbaengal to give up their Indian Identity.............
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::;
>
>Your words sound like the words of our father's generation. During
40's
>and 50's most of the East Bengalis loved to think them as a Pakistani.
>It took 25 years for the East Bengalis to realize how FALSE that sence
>of belongingness was. May be it will take 75 years in your case. I
>heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi. The status of
>West Bengalis in India hurts the pride of the East Bengalis ( along
>with the fact that success of people like Sattajit Ray etc. make
>us very very proud) after all we belong to the same culture.
>
>Shoumitra, I know that you will give a big lecture,but the truth is
>the political and economic power in India are still concentrated
>on the hands of West Indians.
>
>---Zakir
>
If there is a non-bengali speaker then why should we force hism to
speak in bengali.If I can speak in English with a caucasion in English
in Dhaka and cAlcutta ,what is the problem in talking in Hindi.The same
people would have opposed any hindi imposition in TV at the same time
enjoying Hindi movie. I am a voracious follower of Hindi/URdu
literature and I oppose strongly any imposition.This dialectics can
only be understood in a multi-facted society.
wE pprovide 40% of the Doctors of India , we are the biggest group of
Engineers .In Computers we are seconding the Telugus .It is a
copetition out there , we are catching up .In most m,anagerial posts
BEngalees are the fastest growing group . WE will not leave the fight
and cocoon us
Mohammad Harunuzzaman
>: Mr. Bhattacharya my ideas do not come
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>: from reading very thick books or great philosophy. I talk to real people
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>I would highly recommend that you also try to formulate some of your
>ideas by reading books. I have discovered the following after reading books.
>-that Hindus in Bengal did not accept food from Muslims.
>-that Zaminders and Money lenders were mostly Hindu.
>-that the Hindus considered the touch of Muslims to be polluting.
[snipped]
>The topic of this thread was whether West Bengal and Bangladesh should
>join to make a Bengali nation.
>
>--
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Your analysis is superb and your objectivity is remarkable. I also need
to add that a large part of the mistrust between ethnic and religious groups
may be primarily (but not entirely) due to the operation of blind historical
and sociological forces, over which the average individual has little control.
But the average individual often recognizes the need for change and often
admires others who are able to overcome the social inertia and deep-rooted
prejudices. This explains why the social reformer faces resistance and is
still able to recruit followers. This may also explain why the radical or
the revolutionary gets attention and even grudging respect from those who
outwardly oppose her(his) agenda.
I, however, am also opposed to a political union of BD and WB. I am not
particularly concerned about muslims ruling hindus or hindus ruling muslims
(BTW, a simple numerical majority does not guarantee dominance, even in
a democracy). But I believe that politically reuniting groups who have been
divided (for right or wrong reasons) may worsen the problems which led to,
or created by, the original division. We must understand that untrusting
peoples cannot be forced to trust each other by rearranging political
boundaries. Without the trust, the political rearrangement is not viable.
A better alternative is to examine and heal the wounds between such peoples
so that they are able to cooperate for the greater good of both. If this
can be achieved, the issue of political boundaries becomes moot. This
particular approach to reconciliation between peoples has added significance
in this day and age, when political boundaries may increasingly become
irrelevant (refer to the signature quote by K. Maniruzzaman).
My comments are addressed not only to those wishing a reunion of BD and WB,
but also to those advocating reunion of the entire Indian subcontinent, and
to participants in the "apology" series.
Wishing peace and forbearance to all in this holy month of Ramadhan!
M. Harun uz Zaman
The Ohio State University
Muhammed Ishfaque Samad
the province of Assam. It is the capital of Meghalaya I believe.
Maybe you went to school there. When I was at school there the students came from
all over India especially Assam (Gauhati, Dibrugarh etc).
Samad
Debashis Bhattacharya
>In <1996Feb6.162631@engvms> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>
>>heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi.
>
>the experience of landing in ZIA airport and noticing with pleasant
>surprise that the taxi license plates were in Bengali.
Naeem:
I have watched this debate in silence, wishing not to get involved in this
rather polarized debate, once again.
However, please do not cross the threshold of human intelligence (I mean
please do not fall below it)! What are the license plates in Calcutta
written in?
Have you ever been to Calcutta? I doubt it, because if you did, you would konw
that the license plates are mostly in English, and a few in Bengali. NOT ONE
in Hindi!
Debashis.
ABUL ANISUZZAMAN
>Path: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
>From: na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen)
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.bengali
>Subject: Hindi in Colcatha (Re: Bangladeshis take Hypocratic Oath)
>Date: 9 Feb 1996 07:07:18 GMT
>Organization: Netcom
>Lines: 13
>Message-ID: <4ferr6$r...@reader2.ix.netcom.com>
>References: <4e65ba$p...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <4e6i76$3...@reader2.ix.netcom.com> <4e780g$q...@cloner3.netcom.com> <1996Jan31.100438@engvms> <4eutts$d...@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <1996Feb6.162631@engvms>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: srf-ca4-17.ix.netcom.com
>X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Feb 08 11:07:18 PM PST 1996
>Xref: magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu soc.culture.bangladesh:44786 soc.culture.bengali:21415
>In <1996Feb6.162631@engvms> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi.
>When Aparna Sen visited Dhaka a couple of years back, she wrote about
>the experience of landing in ZIA airport and noticing with pleasant
>surprise that the taxi license plates were in Bengali.
>--
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>na...@ix.netcom.com
>______________________________________________________
Lincense plates in bengali? damn....what a shock..i thought they would be
written in the cambodian script. You learn something new everyday.
heheheheheheheheheheehehheehehhhe
RINKU
T.H.Sanyal.
Bhattacharyya) says:
>-that the Congress sidelined popular mass based leaders of Bengal like
>Sarat Bose and Subhas Bose and propped up stooges like Bidhan Roy (yes
>the same B.C.Roy of Bengal who agreed to freight equalisation policy and
>got show pieces like Kalyani and Durgapur).
This same B.C.Roy also acquiesced in moving hq of State Bank of India
(formerly Imperial Bank) to Bombay, did not get a fair shake during the
States Reorganization for WB, neglected to develop new electricity
plants, and his original plan for Kalyani was a complete nonsense.
Kalyani is still just a shadow of the vision put forward for it in the
BDP. Wonder why even the LF govt seem to be incapable of doing anything
sensible with Kalyani.
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Thank you for being a voice of reason in this ng.
ths.
Soumitra Bose
>
>In <1996Feb6.162631@engvms> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>
>>heard that even in tea shops people talk in Hindi.
>
>When Aparna Sen visited Dhaka a couple of years back, she wrote about
>the experience of landing in ZIA airport and noticing with pleasant
>surprise that the taxi license plates were in Bengali.
>--
>
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>na...@ix.netcom.com
>______________________________________________________
>
Pretty weak argument. In Calcutta nameplates are in English , that is
what it should be because there are people of thousands of languages.
It is not in Hindi. Recently bengali nameplates are visible too but
that is ridiculous in India. One can go ahead and have a tamil
nameplate in BEngal and no one will be able to read it ,so criminals
can go gala.
Did Aparna Sen say that the proclamations in centrally governed Metro
rail is first in Bangla then in Hindi and then in English?
Coomar
>In article <4f6sju$h...@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com> coo...@fdldotnet.com (Parmeshwar Coomar) writes:
>
>There are some part which has been missed unfortunately, so I repost the reply.
>
>
>>>
>>>> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>>>
>>>>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>>>>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have the
>>>>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>>>
>>>>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>>>
>>>Orre baba. E tho rithimotho insurrection to rebellion.
>>>
>>>Kolkatha'r jonogon cha-er cup e toofan korthe expert.
>>>
>>>Kinthu basthob er biplob korar'r himmoth ache? [hole mondo hoi na]
>>>
>>>Opekkha-e roylam.
>>>--
>>>__________________________________
>>>
>>>na...@ix.netcom.com
>>>nmoha...@aol.com
>>>naeem_m...@sfbayguardian.com
>>>naeem_m...@mercermc.com
>>>http://www.oberlin.edu/~nmohaiem
>>>__________________________________
>>
>
>projantantro bharoter poishai kori. Amra bharoter odhin ba swadhen
>hothe jabo kano?
>
>Obosh-shoii, Obosh-shoii toofan apnara apnader babar, bharoter poishai
>korben na to ki Bangladesher poishai korben naki! Tobe apnader ei
>cha-er cup e toofan tolar baparta kintu shorbojon bidito, ar ei
>baparta jodi Olempic er ekta event hoy tobe apnader pokkhe kintu empty
>field e gole di-e gold medel ta nite ektu o koshto hobe na. Naeem babu
>to apnader ei exceptional gun tir i kirton korechen, dosher ki bolun?
>
Agai bolechhi nejer poishai ar bharoter poishai toofan kori thathe kar ke
gaae agun lagchhee bola kothin. Tha dadara Bangladesh neaa tho besh
accheen aber United Bangla korar shokh holo kano. Purbea abar Mughal
rajothho korar shokh jaglo naki???
>>Amra tho bharoter ak bishesh anggo.
>
>Apnara bharoter ak bishesh onggo! Bujhlam na Parmeshwar babu ki rokom
>bishesh onggo apnara. Tobe ki apnara bharoter oi Tamilnadu, Panjab,
>Kashmir, Tripura, Nagaland er moto bishesh onggo? O-der kintu khu-ub
>himmoth ache. Jemon dhorun Tamilnadu te Hindi vasha (language) ta
>kintu ekhon porjnoto 2nd stage to durer khotha 3rd stage ei ekhono
>shon-man nie darate pareni, ar ek-ii shathe kolkatar obosthar kothata
>chinta korun, dekhben Hindi vasha ta to prothom class bote-ii uporunto
>kolkatar jonogoner mother tounge (Bangla vasha) ta ekhon tader jonno
>dead language hote choleche. Parmeshwar babu apnader patriotism ta
>kintu besh khurdhar patriotism, jetate shekhbar moto kichu na
>thakle-o, dekhbar moto onek kichu ache.
>
>
Tha Bharote ja hoi tar khobor tho apnara pan - satthi, mettha apnader
upor. Thobe Bangladesher motho choto deshee 'chakmader' are other
minorites der khun korte paren thobe Bharoter motho boro deshe gondogol
hoaai shabhabik. Tobuo amader desh-a amara du bar president korechi Mr.
Zakir Hussain ar Mr. Fakruddin Ali Ahmed kee, Maula Azad er nam hoito
communal Bangladeshe prochar hoi na thar cheaa Shurawardir puja kor le
kaj debe ke bolun?? Tamil Nadu thee Hindi boluk ar Bangla boluk thathe
kar ke eshe jai - Tamil Nadu tho kono din bole ni bharoter aodhin noi!!!
Panjab, Kashmir, Nagaland, Tripura bharoter odhin thar democratic
framework modhya khotha bolar thakle bolbe na holee ja hochee thai
hobbe!! Americar motho deshao 'civil' war hoiechhilo. Aaj o thaa methe ni
ki bolen!!! Democracy is an experiment with truth!!! Dekha jak ki hoi.
Bangladesh tho ai shobe 'military dictatorship' theke bar holo!!!
>>Amra bharotke shikhai ar bharot amader shikhai.
>
>Ta Parmeshwar babu apnara bharot ke ki shekhan? Ta ki ei rokom :-
>
>a) Kivabe Bangladesh ke Gangar panir nej-jo paona theke bonchito kora jabe.
>
Khomota thakle kicchu kore nin. Khoob tho shahoosh dekhachillen!! Amra
kori chaier cup-e toofan apnara - toofan kake bole kore dakhan!!!
>b) Kivabe Chakmader ke ushkani di-e Bangladesh ke betibasto rakha jabe.
>
Ba Ba ..... apnara korben minority khoon ar amra doshi!! Monei rakben
bharoth is proud to be the largest muslim nation in the world. Oh sorry
apnara abar bharother muslim-der manush bolee bhabeen na!!!
>c) Kivabe Nepal theke cheap rate er pathor (Stone) kena theke
>Bangladesh ke bonchito rakha jabe.
>
>d) Bangladesh jate economically developed hote na pare tar jonno
>shobrokom cheshta korte hobe.
>
>etc. etc. etc...........
>
Bangladesh economically developed hole amader ki??? India thea refugee
assha ta kom hotho!!!
Thobuoto Bharoth na hole cholle na!! Bangladesh ke shadheen korloo ke
shuni - apnader Pakisthan bhai ki bhalobeshe chherre dilo naki??? Parle
Bangladesher nam prithibi theke muchhee ditho?? Jannen Banglai akta
khotha acheea - BAIMAN - thar manee janen ki?
>
>>Apnader Pakistaner shathe balobasha meeta jathe pare thobe amader ak chokhe
>>dhekben na. Amra BHAROTER shathe bhalo ahchhi. JAI HIND!!!
>
>Prarthona kori apnara BHAROTER shathe bhalo thakun shustho thakun ar
>ontor (Heart) ta ke Pecific ocean er moto na hole o ontoto Indian
>ocean er moto proshosto korun. Amra gorib hole o shadhin achi, valo
>achi kahake o hujur hujur korte hoy na. BANGLADESH JINDABAD.
>--
Amra Bharother ak ongoo agai bolechi tha apnara ja bhabun thathe amader
ke jai ashee. Dekchi patriotism apnar kichu kom nai. Aber amake bolen
kano? Ja nea khotha ute chillo tha holo Bharoth cheere amra ki Purbeea
Mughal raj korthe rajii - aboshoii noi!!!
Coomar
nuisance!!! korle bolbe korlen kano ar na korle bolbe korlo na!!! Amader
hoiechee ak jala!!!!
T.H.Sanyal.
) says:
>Did Aparna Sen say that the proclamations in centrally governed Metro
>rail is first in Bangla then in Hindi and then in English?
Soumitrababu:
Apni kakhano Sealdah station diye jatayat karechhen? Bahu bachhar dhare
dekhe aschhi je okhane tikit katar jaygate "train"-er samay talika deya
achhe, seta ingriji ebang hindi-te, banglar sekhane jayga hayni. 1993
parjanta ei dekhechhi; ekhan kono badal haye thakle ta amar jana nei.
Eo mane parchhe, kalkatay Park Street ebang AJB Road -er more kartabyarata
pulish-ke banglay ekta rastar katha jigges kare kono uttar paini, hindi
balay tabe ekta uttar pelam. Kalkatay kon bhashar chhayachhabi beshi chale
seta khub sambhabata apnar ajana nay. Sab theke du:kha pai jakhan dekhi
bangali jubakbrinda unnasik haye margasangit-er asare jachchhe, Fellini,
Godard, Truffaut, eisab kapchachchhe; ar tar parei saptambar Sholay
dekhar janya dourachchhe.
ths.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>>When Aparna Sen visited Dhaka a couple of years back, she wrote about
>>the experience of landing in ZIA airport and noticing with pleasant
>>surprise that the taxi license plates were in Bengali.
>Pretty weak argument.
Argument?
She wasn't arguing anything. Just stating her pleasure at an aspect
of Dhaka.
Sambit Basu
Apnar ei lekha-ti jodio Soumitrababu-ke uddesh kore lekha, tobu public
forum-e prokashito bole, ei shujog-e jodi apnar kaachhe nicher
proshnoguli rakhi, asha kori apni kichhu mone korben na.
T.H.Sanyal. <TH...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Soumitrababu:
>Sab theke du:kha pai jakhan dekhi
>bangali jubakbrinda unnasik haye margasangit-er asare jachchhe, Fellini,
>Godard, Truffaut, eisab kapchachchhe; ar tar parei saptambar Sholay
>dekhar janya dourachchhe.
Apnar du:kher karon-ta thik bujhlum na. Eo bujhlum na kano
bangali jubakbrinda maargsongeet-er ashore gele-i unnashik
hoye jaabe. TachhaDa "soptombar Sholay dekhar janye" douDonor
modhye-o je du:khojonok ki aachhe bujhlum na.
Ektu bojhaben?
>ths.
Regards,
Sambit
Mandar Mitra
Sambit Basu writes:
> THbabu,
> T.H.Sanyal. <TH...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> >Sab theke du:kha pai jakhan dekhi
> >bangali jubakbrinda unnasik haye margasangit-er asare jachchhe, Fellini,
> >Godard, Truffaut, eisab kapchachchhe; ar tar parei saptambar Sholay
> >dekhar janya dourachchhe.
>
> Apnar du:kher karon-ta thik bujhlum na. Eo bujhlum na kano
> bangali jubakbrinda maargsongeet-er ashore gele-i unnashik
> hoye jaabe. TachhaDa "soptombar Sholay dekhar janye" douDonor
> modhye-o je du:khojonok ki aachhe bujhlum na.
>
> Ektu bojhaben?
Sanyalmoshai,
oi du:kho pawar byapare amaro eki proshno chhilo. ektu bujhiye bolben?
dhonyobad,
Mandar.
---
PS: Apratim, Sambit: Bhismodeb-er gan-er alochonay ammo agrohi. tobe amar nijoshyo
motamot (at best ektu analyse korar cheshta kore) janano chhara bolar kichhu
nei. tai mukh khulini. Sambit, Anindya (ex-Denver) -ke bhuliye bhaliye ek-adhta
post korate paro?
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. The other day I rang up a number in Calcutta. A mechanised voice
informed me that the number has changed and the new number was....... The
whole message was in Hindi and English ONLY.
2. The name tags of the metro railway employees are in English and Hindi
ONLY.
3. In Indian Institute of Management, Calcutta, there were signs saying
"Don't pluck the flowers", Don't walk on the grass". etc. The signs were
on English and Bengali. I wrote to the director, saying that Bengali
signs should also be posted. I did not get any reply.
4.I have found a section of the Bengalis to try to talk in English
whenever possible. In certain cases the conversation was very peculier-I
talked in Bengali and the other party replied in English.
5.In Taj Bengal, once I had to go and meet somebody. I approached the
reception and asked for the persons room number and the permission to use
the house phone. The women in the counter was Bengali (the name tag
showed a Bengali surname). All my questions were in Bengali and all her
replies were in English.
6.In the Railway booking offices in Calcutta, reservation forms (forms
which you have to fill up before making a reservation) are in Hindi and
English ONLY.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
: Have you been to Shillong recently. I wonder how it's now that it is no longer in
I went to college there. It seems that situation is really bad.
Non-tribals have to suffer lot of extractive demands from chauvinist
tribal hooligans. The colleges and schools have 90% quotas (so I was
told) for tribals now.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Amitabha Bandyopadhyay
The point is that in this thread we were not discussing
the discriminatory behaviour done by a section of the Bangladeshis
against the minorities with the overt or covert support of their
government. You are welcome to highlight the case of atrocities against
Hindus in Bangladesh. What I objected to is your stereotyping the whole
of Bengali Muslims in a very negative fashion.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't understand your point. If a certain group of people, namely Hindus, are treated as shit
in Bangladesh why should they consider being a part of Bangladesh. So it is not a question of
highlighting atrocities only. My point is that Bangladesh is as fundamentalist and intolerant a
society as any other Islamic country. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
when you say WB and Bd should unite. For Christ's sake why? What have we to gain by joining Bd.
Bengali nationalism? I don't beleive in that bullshit. When millions of Bengali Hindus were
kicked out of Bd we were still Bengalis. Did your dear Bengali nationalists in Bd ask why
millions of Hindus have to flee Bd and live wretched lives in shanty towns besides the Bongaon
line, etc. When our Bd friends say Bengali nationalism they actually mean Bengali muslim
nationalism. Wake up my friend from your deep stupor.
----------------
I am quite sure that your narrations are true. However, they do not
indicate that the whole of Bengali Muslims need to be tarred with the
same brush. The stories of discrimination and oppression have one element
in common. They vividly illustrate what happens when religion is allowed
to have a say in public affairs. I have come across Muslim accounts that
sound remarkably like your account except in those narrations Hindus are
blamed.
----------------------------
Does it really matter if a handful of Muslims are secular when the teeming uneducated,
fundamentalist, economically and politically backward millions of Bangladeshi Muslims think
otherwise? I don't know where you heard of BENGALI HINDU atrocities on Muslims. My recollection
is that there hasn't been any major communal violence in Bengal for the last 30 years.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would highly recommend that you also try to formulate some of your
ideas by reading books. I have discovered the following after reading books.
-that Hindus in Bengal did not accept food from Muslims.
-that Zaminders and Money lenders were mostly Hindu.
-that the Hindus considered the touch of Muslims to be polluting.
-that the Congress sidelined popular mass based leaders of Bengal like
Sarat Bose and Subhas Bose and propped up stooges like Bidhan Roy (yes
the same B.C.Roy of Bengal who agreed to freight equalisation policy and
got show pieces like Kalyani and Durgapur).
------------------
Mr. Bhattacharya, I think you again missed my point. Considering my level of education you can
safely assume that I have read some books in my lifetime. My point was that people like you
live your lives in books. You think you can solve all problems simply by reading books and
putting forward theories. An example of such behavior was the failure of the Naxal movement.
Try to understand the ground realities. By putting forward a speratist ideaology you are
trying to bring up another divisive issue. We are Indians first and then Bengalis. I don't
beleive in Bd nationalism because it is bullshit to me. It has nothing in it for the Hindu.
It is people like you who give rise to the Bhrindanwala's and give enormous trouble to India
and Indians. So it is time your efforts got nipped in the bud. Your comments about the Hindus
attitude towards muslim doesn't hold ground for two reasons. 1) Upper caste Hindus treated
lower caste hindus worse than the muslims and the rulers of Bengal for the last 700 years have
been Muslims. So the Hindu zaminder was paying to the Muslim Nawab or Sultan. They were
exploiting Hindus as well as Muslims. I guess you went through your history books too quickly.
You conveniently forget that the Muslim league had a solid base in pre-partition Bengal and
that people like Suhrawardy were never going to share power with Hindus. In fact it was he who
initiated the 1946 riots. That B.C. Roy was a stooge is a figment of your imagination. This man
has had a lot of contribution towards Bengal.
BTW I don't care how my forefathers treated whom 200 years ago. What I am interested in is how
I am treated now. The common Bd would say hello to you everytime and tell you how pleased he is
that you also talk Bengali. His Bengali nationalism ends there. Don't try to cook up another
divisive theory which the Bd islamists will use to poke India as they are doing in the North
East.
Raja
Coomar
want to live within the democratic framework of India this Hindi
onslaught must be stopped!!!
Bengali language must be endorsed in Bengal!!! I wonder what our Marxist
government thinks of all this - or are they too busy with their new found
wealth - western money and corruption!!!
I wonder if this a surreptious attempt to wipe out Bengali!!! The
begining of the end.
bha...@unixg.ubc.ca (Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya) wrote:
>Some Instances:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>1. The other day I rang up a number in Calcutta. A mechanised voice
>informed me that the number has changed and the new number was....... The
>whole message was in Hindi and English ONLY.
>
This is alarming news I must admit!!!
>2. The name tags of the metro railway employees are in English and Hindi
>ONLY.
>
>3. In Indian Institute of Management, Calcutta, there were signs saying
>"Don't pluck the flowers", Don't walk on the grass". etc. The signs were
>on English and Bengali. I wrote to the director, saying that Bengali
>signs should also be posted. I did not get any reply.
>
Does this guy have a fax number or something we should try mass fax
mailing with copies to newspapers!!!
>4.I have found a section of the Bengalis to try to talk in English
>whenever possible. In certain cases the conversation was very peculier-I
>talked in Bengali and the other party replied in English.
>
This seems to be fashionable these days in Calcutta with the onslaught of
Hindi filmi mixed Western Culture.
>5.In Taj Bengal, once I had to go and meet somebody. I approached the
>reception and asked for the persons room number and the permission to use
>the house phone. The women in the counter was Bengali (the name tag
>showed a Bengali surname). All my questions were in Bengali and all her
>replies were in English.
>
As I said if she replied in Bengali then she would not be able to prove
to you that she knew English. She probably does not know in Japan or
Germany all examples of technologically advanced countries English is not
a pre-requisite to success. This is now all a product of our hotpotch
culture and what is emerging to be new India. Too bad!!!
>6.In the Railway booking offices in Calcutta, reservation forms (forms
>which you have to fill up before making a reservation) are in Hindi and
>English ONLY.
>
>--
Do you what they with forms in the South or maybe even in Assam or
Northeast!!!
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
it was good that you brought this to our notice.
Coomar
for 'Bengali nameplates on cars' movement and start a Biplob and ask for
help from our 'chhachas' on the other side of the border!!!
What a grand idea for a Biplob!! I would think it would be helpful to
educate our neighbors on the otherside of the border to allow free
trade between the two countries and allow free passage of much needed
Indian goods to Bdesh. This will make those same goods much cheaper and
easily available for people in BANGLADESH!!! It reaches them anyway thru
the blackmarket anyway.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>>In response to Nalinaksha's many anecdotes about Hindi hegemony in
Calcutta:
>What you have said is news to me and a matter of grave concern!!
>While we want to live within the democratic framework of India this
>Hindi onslaught must be stopped!!!
Hello? If all of Nalinaksha's anecdotes were new to you, how long have
you been out of Calcutta?
Ishfaque Samad
<bha...@unixg.ubc.ca> writes
I am sorry to hear that.
Anyway I went to school in St Edmund's and my sister went to Pinemount.
Well as Aretha Franklin said "these are ever changing times". Some for
the better and some for the worse.
Ishfaque Samad
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
: Mr. Nalinakhsa Bhattacharya wrote:
: The point is that in this thread we were not discussing
: the discriminatory behaviour done by a section of the Bangladeshis
: against the minorities with the overt or covert support of their
: government. You are welcome to highlight the case of atrocities against
: Hindus in Bangladesh. What I objected to is your stereotyping the whole
: of Bengali Muslims in a very negative fashion.
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: I don't understand your point. If a certain group of people, namely Hindus, are treated as shit
: in Bangladesh why should they consider being a part of Bangladesh. So it is not a question of
: society as any other Islamic country. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about
: when you say WB and Bd should unite. For Christ's sake why? What have we to gain by joining Bd.
I had categorically declined to comment on the proposition of unification
of West Bengal and Bangladesh. Please substantiate your statement.
: Bengali nationalism? I don't beleive in that bullshit. When millions of Bengali Hindus were
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do believe in Bengali Nationalism.
: kicked out of Bd we were still Bengalis. Did your dear Bengali nationalists in Bd ask why
: millions of Hindus have to flee Bd and live wretched lives in shanty towns besides the Bongaon
: line, etc. When our Bd friends say Bengali nationalism they actually mean Bengali muslim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: nationalism. Wake up my friend from your deep stupor.
: ----------------
Please substantiate your statement that "they actually mean Bengali
Muslim nationalism." Are you forgetting
-Language Movement in the face of Pakistani propaganda that Bengali is a
Hindu language.
-The protest by intellectuals when Rabindra Sangeet was banned by Ayub
Khan on the ground that Rabindra sangeet was Hindu song.
-The efforts taken by many Bangladeshi Bengali Muslim intellectuals to
petition their government that governmental protection be ensured to
enable Hindus to observe their religious rites. Begum Sufia Kamal was one
such intellectual.
: Does it really matter if a handful of Muslims are secular when the teeming uneducated,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Substantiate this please. It could also be possible that a handful are
troublemakers and the rest are not.
: fundamentalist, economically and politically backward millions of Bangladeshi Muslims think
: otherwise? I don't know where you heard of BENGALI HINDU atrocities on Muslims. My recollection
: is that there hasn't been any major communal violence in Bengal for the last 30 years.
I can certainly tell you about Hindu atrocities. If you read my post I
mentioned about Hindu atrocities and not Bengali Hindu atrocities. The
reason West Bengal's post independence communal record is relatively
cleaner is the spread of left ideology. Along with their misdeeds, a
stirling achievment of left is the near complete absence of communal and
casteist paradigm in Bengal politics. Let us keep it that way.
: Mr. Bhattacharya, I think you again missed my point. Considering my level of education you can
: safely assume that I have read some books in my lifetime. My point was that people like you
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: live your lives in books. You think you can solve all problems simply by reading books and
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your points are irrelevant. You don't know me and we have not had
occasions to discuss my personal attitudes on the net about "solve(ing)
all problems".
: putting forward theories. An example of such behavior was the failure of the Naxal movement.
: Try to understand the ground realities. By putting forward a speratist ideaology you are
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please produce the relevant quote from my post to substantiate your argument.
: trying to bring up another divisive issue. We are Indians first and then Bengalis. I don't
: beleive in Bd nationalism because it is bullshit to me. It has nothing in it for the Hindu.
: It is people like you who give rise to the Bhrindanwala's and give
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
enormous trouble to India
No, it is people like Indira Gandhi, who could not bear the thought of
Punjab being ruled by the Akali Dal that gave rise to Bhindranwale.
: and Indians. So it is time your efforts got nipped in the bud. Your comments about the Hindus
: attitude towards muslim doesn't hold ground for two reasons. 1) Upper caste Hindus treated
: lower caste hindus worse than the muslims and the rulers of Bengal for the last 700 years have
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: been Muslims. So the Hindu zaminder was paying to the Muslim Nawab or Sultan. They were
: exploiting Hindus as well as Muslims. I guess you went through your history books too quickly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: You conveniently forget that the Muslim league had a solid base in pre-partition Bengal and
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have admitted that muslims were exploited and so were the lower
castes. Regarding Bengali Muslims you have to understand that Muslims in
Bengal could be divided into two classes-Ashraf and Atraf. Ashraf were
the aristocrats. They spoke Urdu and did not have any social mixing with
the Atraf who were the bulk of Bengali Muslims and as a rule knew only
Bengali as their language. Suhrawardy and Nazimuddin were Ashraf.
Suhrawardy's complicity in Bengal riots is well known. The Ashraf
mobilised the rest of the Muslim support to further their own end.
Regarding sharing of power, history possibly would have been written
differently if Congress shared power with Fazlul Huq and formed ministry
in Bengal after 1936 elections.
: that people like Suhrawardy were never going to share power with Hindus. In fact it was he who
: initiated the 1946 riots. That B.C. Roy was a stooge is a figment of your imagination. This man
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: has had a lot of contribution towards Bengal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For an account of how the Bose Brothers (Sarat and Subhas Bose) were
marginalised in Bengal congress and how Bidhan Roy was hoisted as a
stooge for Center by the Central Congress Leaders - read "Bengal
Divided"-by Joya Chatterjee. About his contribution to Bengal I have
mentioned Freight Equalisation Scheme. Mr.T.H.Sanyal has pointed out the
shifting of State Bank Headquarters out of Calcutta. The usual show
pieces that are mentioned are Durgapur, Kalyani and Salt Lake.
: BTW I don't care how my forefathers treated whom 200 years ago. What I am interested in is how
: I am treated now. The common Bd would say hello to you everytime and tell you how pleased he is
: that you also talk Bengali. His Bengali nationalism ends there. Don't try to cook up another
: divisive theory which the Bd islamists will use to poke India as they are doing in the North
: East.
The above paragraph is another perfect example of sterotyping.
For Hindu-Muslim relations in Bengal read some of the essays by
Rabindranath in his book of essays "Kalantar".
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Soumitra Bose
Bhattacharyya) writes:
>
>Some Instances:
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>1. The other day I rang up a number in Calcutta. A mechanised voice
>informed me that the number has changed and the new number was.......
The
>whole message was in Hindi and English ONLY.
>
Hindi
>ONLY.
>
>3. In Indian Institute of Management, Calcutta, there were signs
saying
>"Don't pluck the flowers", Don't walk on the grass". etc. The signs
were
>on English and Bengali. I wrote to the director, saying that Bengali
>signs should also be posted. I did not get any reply.
>
>whenever possible. In certain cases the conversation was very
peculier-I
>talked in Bengali and the other party replied in English.
>
>reception and asked for the persons room number and the permission to
use
>the house phone. The women in the counter was Bengali (the name tag
>showed a Bengali surname). All my questions were in Bengali and all
her
>replies were in English.
>
>which you have to fill up before making a reservation) are in Hindi
and
>English ONLY.
>
>--
>Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
ETai ki bhalo na , ain kore ba jor kore bangla shobjaigai boshanor
chaite? Bangla boi bikri berechye , Jibonmukhi gan er daulot e BAngla
gan manush beshi shunche , bangla boi mela bere geche , bangla niye
agroho ontoto moffoshole bereche . Compte kore egiye gelei to shreyo
poth dhora hoi tai na?
Soumitra Bose
writes:
>In article <4fhahu$r...@cloner4.netcom.com>,
soum...@ix.netcom.com(Soumitra Bose
>) says:
>
>>Did Aparna Sen say that the proclamations in centrally governed Metro
>>rail is first in Bangla then in Hindi and then in English?
>
>Soumitrababu:
>
>Apni kakhano Sealdah station diye jatayat karechhen? Bahu bachhar
dhare
>dekhe aschhi je okhane tikit katar jaygate "train"-er samay talika
deya
>achhe, seta ingriji ebang hindi-te, banglar sekhane jayga hayni. 1993
>parjanta ei dekhechhi; ekhan kono badal haye thakle ta amar jana nei.
>Eo mane parchhe, kalkatay Park Street ebang AJB Road -er more
kartabyarata
>pulish-ke banglay ekta rastar katha jigges kare kono uttar paini,
hindi
>balay tabe ekta uttar pelam. Kalkatay kon bhashar chhayachhabi beshi
chale
dekhi
>bangali jubakbrinda unnasik haye margasangit-er asare jachchhe,
Fellini,
>Godard, Truffaut, eisab kapchachchhe; ar tar parei saptambar Sholay
>dekhar janya dourachchhe.
>
Moja ta okhanei. Poschim Banglai banglake protimuhurte onek gulo ba
ontoto duto bhashar songye lorai kore nijeke protishta korte hoi, tai
sekhane banglar gunogoto man onek beshi. ager bochor theke akta
parallel boi mela shuru hoichye shudhu bangla boie , porer bar naki
unmukto prangone hobe.Proti jela sodore o onnanno sohore ekhon bangla
boi mela hochhye ,sekhane ingriji boi bikri khub kom hoi, hindi boi
dekha jai na. Ebar to shunlam urdu sahityo hindi r sathe palla diye
bikri hoiechye . Proti bochor bangla boier bikrir har ager bocherer
chaite naki pray 300% beshi , 1995 o 1996 er Wbengal theke Bokks in
print beriyeche , Americae eshe pounchehye . Ei boi gulo ki ser dore
becha hoi naki , na loke kene bolei bikri hoi? Dada shudhu ondhokar
dekha ekdhoroner bangali bilashita "hotashabad" Anadabajar to ekebare
ota beche bhalo poisha kamai.
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Naeem:
>Tachara tomar shamosto details about Calcutta are wrong.
Amar shomostho details? I only posted the anecdote about Aparna Sen.
All other detailed posts were from Nalinaksha, etc.
>Kolkuttate taxi-plates are in english (about 98%).
Seems to support A Sen's statement.
rishi bhattacharjee
Filmstar jara hoi, tara oshob ektu diyei thake. Ota nahole public figure hobe
kikore? Do you really think she cares whther it is in Bengali or English?
Tachara tomar shamosto details about Calcutta are wrong. Kolkuttate
taxi-plates are in english (about 98%). Kothao kothao ajkal dekhbe Bangla
plate tao khub kam. English is the undeclared official language and that
helps hell of a lot. Metro station - e sign boartds are in Bengali, hindi and
english to form a triple prong completion.
Hope this was helpful
Rishi-moshai
rishi bhattacharjee
Jodio apnake Sambit agei janiyeche, tabuo kautuhalbashoto jigyasha kori, apni
ki bolte chan? Bangali jubakera ki ratdin pseudo-philosophical discussion
korben? Tara margsongeeter ashore unnasik hoye jacche, Fellini-r discussion
korche, abar dashbar sholay dekhche, etai to natural hoya uchit, tai na? We
should be able to assimilate everything that is offered to us in life. It
helps us in relating to all kinds of individuals. I do not expect that all
the individuals I come across in life are going to be interested in classical
philosophy or marg-sangeet or western classical or Camus. I have many gooD
friends who are down to earth Kumar Shanu party and I like them a hell of a
lot. Ami BTW love classical (east and west and fusion) but jekhane dekhi
discussion odike hjabe na ami chepe jabo. Amar jonye keno anya public suffer
korbe, balun? Sholay amio teenbaar dekhechi. Movieta etoi bhalo chilo je I
could not help. But I have seen many good movies and trash ones more than
once. Did that change my principles, my outlooks, my belief? NO. I am still
the same person but once in a while I do this trash scavenging to get the feel
for this other side of WALL we call classicalism. Try it. You will feel
good.
Matamat janaben
Rishi-moshai
N. Tiwari
: In <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com> na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem Mohaiemen
: ) writes:
: >
: >> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
: >
: >>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
: >>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have
: the
: >>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
: >
: >>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
: >
It is interesting to see that people still exist
in B'desh, who have this notion of Bangaliyat,
when there are severe undercurrents going on
in their own Bang-desh, to transform this Bangaliat
to Islamiyat.
In wake of this trend, the origins of which can be
traced back to as early as early 18th century, it
is indeed interesting to see that Naeem advocates
a unified Bengal, free of "Indian-ness." Mr. Naeem
would do well to work towards a situation to free
the rampant Islamization of his very own homeland
before he thinks of getting rid of the Indian-ness
of his Bangla neighbors.
--
Nachiketa Tiwari
=====================================================
750 Tall Oaks Drive 118 Patton Hall
Apt. # 3600 I Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24060. Blacksburg, VA 24061.
(540)-951-3979 (540)-231-4611
=====================================================
Amitabha Bandyopadhyay
> In <96039.18...@psuvm.psu.edu> T.H.Sanyal. <TH...@psuvm.psu.edu>
> writes:
> >
> >In article <4fcd1a$d...@moonbeam.aecom.yu.edu>, Amitabha Bandyopadhyay
> ><aban...@aecom.yu.edu> says:
> >
> >>My family comes from Narayangunj. The reason my family fled was
> because
> >>the family servants who were muslims started killing and looting. We
> >
> >Servants? Plural? You had servants and you are wondering why the
> >servants might not have taken too kindly to their masters? There is
> >clearly a class dimension in your story.
> >And you have never heard stories of Hindus killing Muslims, is that
> it?
> >
> >Did you ever wonder whether everything was hunkydory for the
servants
> >of your family?
> >It is also a reality that Calcutta and West Bengal matters little in
> >the larger scheme of things known as the Sovereign Secular Socialist
> >Democratic Republic of India.
> >
> >ths.
> Well this story should have been a pointer ..Servants because they
> were servants have a right to kill and loot!.YEs how come the fact that
> the muslims were servants did not raise an eyebrow, how come they were
> treated as servants .What did that person mean ? that servants should
> always be servants? It is a matter of pride that the "servants" rose up
and looted all the property which has been accumulated on their
> sweat.No wonder My forefathers are kicked out of EBengal . THen thye
> came over to Wbengal and got another big thud at the back , then our
> generation came to senses .We have now build up lal bangla.
>
>
I guess you folks misinterpretated my reference to 'servants' and
unleashed your diatribe about class struggle, etc. The old Marxist way of trying to explain everything on the basis of class struggl=
e. So what are you folks doing in the US. Furthering the struggle in the US or earning dollars in the old capitalist way? BTW the pr=
oponents of 'lal bangla' should know that the best known proponent of lal bangla Mr. Jyoti Basu is busy courting capitalists. At le=
ast their is someone smart up there to realize how to get out of the glut the protagonist of lal bangla have led WB into.
Obviuosly you need to get up out of your deep slumber.
BTW, my reference to 'servants' was a simple usage of an English word. No 'class struggle' here. Anyway, I guess you don't have serv=
ants in your home in WB. Or maybe you have and your big mouth opens only on the internet. May be next time you will ask your servant=
s to kill your family.
IMHO you guys are trying to divert the real issue by bringing up silly
points. In case you have forgotten, the issue was whether WB and Bd
should unite in a federation and my response was as minorities are brutalized in Bangladesh (unlike in WB, NOT INDIA) there is no re=
ason for people in WB to join a Bangladesh which is economically, politically backward and which is currently under the sway of fund=
amentalist forces, where there is no security for minorities. So I invite you to stick to the isssue and indulge in intelligent disc=
ussion instead of trying to bring up trivial points.
Raja
Soumitra Bose
writes:
>amitabha bandyopadhyay (aban...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
>
>: In <4etm4p$i...@cloner4.netcom.com> na...@ix.netcom.com(Naeem
Mohaiemen
>: ) writes:
>: >
>: >> mer...@engvms.unl.edu writes:
>: >
>: >>one third of Bengal belongs to India. IF they can EARN their
>: >>INDEPENDENCE and join with the Land of Bengalis, then we will have
>: the
>: >>opportunity to use Bengali ONLY, forgeting the terms Indians,
>: >
>: >>East Bengalis has already done their part of EARNING INDEPENDENCE
>: >
Aa hi gaya sahaban!!!
>
>It is interesting to see that people still exist
>in B'desh, who have this notion of Bangaliyat,
>when there are severe undercurrents going on
>in their own Bang-desh, to transform this Bangaliat
>to Islamiyat.
When you are talking about Bengali culture then please try to get the
proper word for this ,( now that you have at least one Bengali-named
Hindutvavadi in the net).Bangaliyat is no word for a bengali. Whatever
the religious tinge be very few bengali-muslim in Bd do not think
themselves other than a Bengali.There is no harm in considering a part
of the bengali culture and at the same time a part of the Muslim world.
You are trying to drag Bengali culture i the same line as Islamiyat .
Soumitra Bose
>
>All other detailed posts were from Nalinaksha, etc.
>
>
ache. se kolkatai eshe bangali name-plate dekhe to kichui bujhbe na,
serokom ekta gari take chapa dile se ki number-plate bolbe shuni?
Romantikota diye ki puromatrai doinondin kaj chole? Aparna Sen to
banglai paroto pokshe interview den na , dileo hajar ta ingriji shobdo.
O(n)r garir number plate kintu banglai lekha noi, tini kortei parten ,
onekei korechen, ontoto ingrijir pashe banglai likhte parten. E shob ki
bangladeshe jokhon take sombordhona dewo hoichilo tar bhara dewoa
hoicheilo take dowat khaonao hoichilo , tar protidan hishebe mon bhalo
koranor chalaki noi to ?
Sudeshna Das
: tate kharap ta ki . Bharoter jekhanei hok je kono jaigai jowar odhikar
: ache. se kolkatai eshe bangali name-plate dekhe to kichui bujhbe na,
: serokom ekta gari take chapa dile se ki number-plate bolbe shuni?
: Romantikota diye ki puromatrai doinondin kaj chole? Aparna Sen to
: banglai paroto pokshe interview den na , dileo hajar ta ingriji shobdo.
: O(n)r garir number plate kintu banglai lekha noi, tini kortei parten ,
: onekei korechen, ontoto ingrijir pashe banglai likhte parten. E shob ki
: bangladeshe jokhon take sombordhona dewo hoichilo tar bhara dewoa
: hoicheilo take dowat khaonao hoichilo , tar protidan hishebe mon bhalo
: koranor chalaki noi to ?
Ami mairi Soumitra-ke konodin fully bujhbo na! Aparnadebi'r
dhap'r Bangla prem to nikhNut dhorechhe, abar e-i eki stunt
Sumanbabu marle-i ta epistemic rape'r protibaad hoye dNaRabe.
BTW, Left front'r education policy'r shapokkhe (Engreji tule deowa'r
byapare) -o kichhu kichhu bolechhile bole mone poRchhe Soumitra.
Ta, Bangali'ra tabe number plate dekhe chinbe ki kore Engreji'te
likhle?
Proshangata, Kolkata-i giye ekta jinish dekhe bhari bhalo laglo.
TV'te Dheu bole ekta dhap'r neku neku serial hoi, Moonmoon Sen
nayeeka, tar sur diyechhen Sumanbabu. Eddin par aste aste bhadrolok
nijer jaiga-ta khNuje pachchhen dekhe bejai bhalo laglo.
Apratim.
Soumitra Bose
Sumaner bangla prem dhoper erokom assumption holo kotha theke , amar
konodin seta mone hoini. Tumi shala shob byapare Suman ke horikathi
debe seta tomar obhiruchi.Tomar moto Suman(totha kanu)premik kom
dekhechi(Vaishnab podaboli mairi) bhalo kotha Suman ke matha theke
namate parcho na dekhe bhalo laglo
Ami konodino Makuder ingrezi tyle dewoke kokhono somorthon kori ni,
shala tar birudhe ch(n)chate giye ekbar policer kelani kheyechi.
Bangaleer acha acha projonmo hantur opor lungi,dhuti tule bujhe gelo ar
aj keno sei niye naki kanna hochye. Bihar er lok bujhte pare ar
bangalee sohure ra kon keshto bistu haridas pal shuni?
>
> Proshangata, Kolkata-i giye ekta jinish dekhe bhari bhalo laglo.
> TV'te Dheu bole ekta dhap'r neku neku serial hoi, Moonmoon Sen
> nayeeka, tar sur diyechhen Sumanbabu. Eddin par aste aste
bhadrolok
> nijer jaiga-ta khNuje pachchhen dekhe bejai bhalo laglo.
>
Sangeetshilpi sur den , tate neku buri(ekhon Munmun burii hobe) obhinoi
korche to ki.Tate suman nijer jaigai chole elo mane , erokom prejudiced
version of position kotheke pow boloto mama?
> Apratim.
>
Soumitra Bose
writes:
That is the fun! The same good if goes thru normal channels helping
people and the government of BAngladesh is Indian imperialism , but
when goes thru smuggling becomes Halal and does not stink imperialist ,
it becomes a national product for them.I guess Bangladesh is now the
unique country in the world which practices
smuggler-governed-nationalism.
Sherif911
politiccal system in Bangladesh. But it no more different than what BJP is
doing in India. We have seperated ourselves politically. There is no
question of political unification of bengal. This whole idea is absurd.
What we should consider is developing our relationship with West Bengal.
We can not deny the fact that we are Bengali. No religion can take our
identity away. Fundamentalist groups will never gain popularity in
Bangladesh. It is clear from the past two general elections. In fact the
fundamentalist groups gain popularity only when there is a political
vaccume in the country. They can cause anarchy..thats the best they can
do.But be sure that they will never never come to power in Bangladesh. We
are just not ready to accept such stupedity. Similarly it is also true
that we will develope our own culturural base based on our belief.
Bangladesh is not a land for muslims only..there are hindu and christiens,
buddists and other tribal populations in bangladesh. We are one nation and
we will be like thatalways. What we should concentrate is not teasing each
other for their religious beliefs. We should try to accept our beliefs and
be brothers..as our blood is the same.
Debashis Bhattacharya
>Its true that some fundamentalist groups are demanding Islamization of the
>politiccal system in Bangladesh. But it no more different than what BJP is
>doing in India. We have seperated ourselves politically. There is no
>question of political unification of bengal. This whole idea is absurd.
Comments and sentiments like these pain me. However, I also believe (and even
more so, after having been in some fierce firefights with some BD netters)
that its best to let each group of people find out, the hard way, as to what
is in that group's best interest. Some day, I'm sure, after much more suffering
for the majority of Bengalis on both sides of the border, you will
see the obvious shortcomings of your thoughts, views, and position ---
shortcomings that are obvious to many others, like myself. Till then, good
luck,
and happy suffering --- not to you personally, since I'm sure you are not
suffering from the current system (otherwise, you would not want its
continuation) --- to the majority of Bengalis on both sides of the border!
>What we should consider is developing our relationship with West Bengal.
>We can not deny the fact that we are Bengali. No religion can take our
>identity away. Fundamentalist groups will never gain popularity in
>Bangladesh. It is clear from the past two general elections. In fact the
BJP on the west side, and BNP on the east side of the border are clearly
proving you wrong. Perhaps you should check the pulse of the common person,
again. Prolonged division will only increase enmity.
>fundamentalist groups gain popularity only when there is a political
>vaccume in the country. They can cause anarchy..thats the best they can
>do.But be sure that they will never never come to power in Bangladesh. We
>are just not ready to accept such stupedity. Similarly it is also true
>that we will develope our own culturural base based on our belief.
>Bangladesh is not a land for muslims only..there are hindu and christiens,
Virtually in theory now, at less than 15% of the population!
>buddists and other tribal populations in bangladesh. We are one nation and
>we will be like thatalways. What we should concentrate is not teasing each
"Always" is a tricky word! I wonder how many times the East Germans used that
word!
>other for their religious beliefs. We should try to accept our beliefs and
>be brothers..as our blood is the same.
How I wish your words were the reality on the grounds of Bangladesh! How I
wish all the citizens of East Pakistan and then Bangladesh, who FLED East
Pakistan and then Bangladesh for one reason or another, and came to India,
could go back, reclaim the property that is rightfully theirs, and resettle!
I'm afraid that would be most inconvenient, though! Huh!
Debashis Bhattacharya
PS: Attempts to flame me will not yield anything. I have been to the flameland,
and have no intention of wasting my time on flames, again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED IN ANY ARTICLE POSTED BY ME VIA THE INTERNET, REPRESENT MY
OPINIONS ONLY, AND NEITHER DO THEY REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF MY EMPLOYER, NOR DO
THEY REPRESENT ANY ENDORSEMENT OF MY VIEWS BY MY EMPLOYER.
rishi bhattacharjee
without being repititous. Let us all stop mud slinging, forget the
unification plan, and work for a common bengali goal, can we? Hindu/muslim,
how l;ong shall we go on arguing about these two old religious hackneyed
differences. Our similarities are way bigger than that. Please Lebu ar
chatkaben na, aro teto berobe. Charan than.
Rishi-moshai
Nothing
hope some of the fundamentalists lurking in the murky world of cyberspace
finds your posting informative and learns something from it. Religion is
for the people, by the people and from the people. Humans evolved before
religions not the other way round. It is true that in the plateau of
Bengal, all inhabitants share a common humanity, that of being Bengali
and it must be a positive force to be reckoned with. Partriotism just
cannot stop at the border region on Jessore because that shows a
materialistic desire. Love for a nation cannot stop with a piece of land
but is much more to do with nationhood. So, let us all Muslim brothers
and sisters born in Bangladesh share a thought for our countersouls in
West Bengal. We speak the same language, recite the same Tagore, humm the
same Nazrul, so why not include them in our thoughts?!?
Sincere Regards
Nothing
sher...@aol.com (Sherif911) wrote:
>Its true that some fundamentalist groups are demanding Islamization of the
>politiccal system in Bangladesh. But it no more different than what BJP is
>doing in India. We have seperated ourselves politically. There is no
>question of political unification of bengal. This whole idea is absurd.
>What we should consider is developing our relationship with West Bengal.
>We can not deny the fact that we are Bengali. No religion can take our
>identity away. Fundamentalist groups will never gain popularity in
>Bangladesh. It is clear from the past two general elections. In fact the
>fundamentalist groups gain popularity only when there is a political
>vaccume in the country. They can cause anarchy..thats the best they can
>do.But be sure that they will never never come to power in Bangladesh. We
>are just not ready to accept such stupedity. Similarly it is also true
>that we will develope our own culturural base based on our belief.
>Bangladesh is not a land for muslims only..there are hindu and christiens,
>buddists and other tribal populations in bangladesh. We are one nation and
>we will be like thatalways. What we should concentrate is not teasing each