"Desh" potrikar holo ta ki????
Soumitra Bose
Eto bhaba jai na , ebarer Desh e o darun darun shob probondho , koyekti
porar moto kobita .Holo ta ki?? Desh er bikri kome gieychilo , tai
bodhoi abar ektu chagar diey otha ... ebar to dekhi Desh MAkuder thekeo
beshi bamponthi. Ami to puro flat jokhon dekhlam Probashi Anondobajar e
Birat kore "Jolarko" potrikar review beriechhe , tate Shohid kobi AMiyo
Chattopadhayay er sesh obostha r biboron o tar sei bojkhyato kobita
"TUMI MANUSH , SEI HOK TOMAR SUNDOROTOMO BISFORON" .. Eshob ki hochhye
, bhabai jai na , byabshar jonno holeo eta to darun powa .... Ki jani
suryo sei purbo dikei othe to ??????? Ekhon to Desh ritimoto porte
bhalo lagchhe . Amar ek Nettor bondhu to bole eta Sunili HArkoti , Ek
dhoroner chokranto (Kobita chapano niye Sunil Shakti r sei ghorotoro
chapan utor mone achhye to?) Nijer ta chara ar shob bhushi mal chapale
loke shudhu Sunil kei debota bhabbe ...Ja hok shob kemon jeno ektu
beshi bhalo bhalo thekchhe , otai chintai phele ....
Dasgupta
Tothyer karone janano:
1.Desh-er kobita goto char bochchor dhorey Joy (Goswami)
dekhchchey.
2.Shankha Ghosh deergho baro bochchor por (1982-94) pher
uporodhey Desh-e likhchchen. Ekjon Robindro-joyonti
shongkhya ene dilen shedin, taate "Bhinnoruchir Odhikar"
naame ta(n)r oshadharon ekta probondho poRlam.
3.Sibnarayan Ray Jijnasar baire jekhane lekhen sheta Desh.
4.Maku party-r Joydeb Boshu-o Desh-e likhchchey ekhon.
E-shotteo Protishthaan-er kono choritro da(n)rate parena. Posharini posharini-i
theke jay. Tar nana shomoye nana chchol.
Mushkil holo, ar to keu da(n)Rate parchchena biporite. Protishthaan-er
birudhdhey to ar Protishthaan toiri kora jayna. Tobu amar bishwash
brithoth banglar onyotomo sreshtho kobira o godyokar-ra ekhono Desh-er baire
likhchchen. Udahoron: Goutom Boshu, Nirmal Haldar, mridul Dasgupta, Goutom
Choudhuri...
Shoumyo.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> Eta jodi sotyi hoi tobe boli Joy er nirbachoner ruchir opor amar shob
> shrodha chole gelo ...MAtro koyeekta (duto ) Desh e kichu porar jogyo
> kobita pelam ..Ager gulote she ki ghas khachhilo ?
>
Thik-i to.
> >
> > 2.Shankha Ghosh deergho baro bochchor por
> (1982-94) pher
> > uporodhey Desh-e likhchchen. Ekjon
> Robindro-joyonti
> > shongkhya ene dilen shedin, taate "Bhinnoruchir
> Odhikar"
> > naame ta(n)r oshadharon ekta probondho poRlam.
> >
>
> Eta ki kore hostogoto kora jai ???/
>
Tupun-ke pathiyechchi ekta copy. Tomader to adda hoy, or kaachch theke
poRey niyo.
> > 3.Sibnarayan Ray Jijnasar baire jekhane lekhen
> >sheta Desh.
> .....
> Din dini Shibanrayan babu ekjon pati marketing
> reactionary hoie uthchhen . onr oudhottyo Jyoti boshu keo chariye jai,
> Onr Biplob o Biborton proshongye Jijgnasa ti r moto eto reactionary
> ebong baje sonkhya gota Poschim BAnglai beriechhe kina sondheyo ....
"Bhinnoruchir Odhikar" poRar por tomar oporer montobyoguli poriborton
korte chao kina jigyesh korbo.
> E public ke Maku party bhaoli dhorechhe , Joydeb somproti Ganoshokti
> keo besh bhodroshto koreche dekha jachhe ..
Othocho Joydeb amake 1990-teo jorgolay bolechchey (Krishna-nagar kobi
shommelon-e) jey Desh ba Anandabajar-er kono shonkhyay o kokhono
lekheni, likhbena, karon Desh naki "Congressi-der kagoj".
........
Shoumyo.
Naeem Mohaiemen
Soumitra Bose wrote:
>Desh MAkuder thekeo beshi bamponthi.
Nahhh.. a bit blinded by your enthusiasm I think. O hothe deri.
>Nijer ta chara ar shob bhushi mal chapale loke shudhu Sunil kei debota bhabbe
Shunil ekta gobet, debotha noi kokhonoi..
Naeem
Soumitra Bose
In <96279.183...@psuvm.psu.edu> Dasgupta <TXD...@psuvm.psu.edu>
writes:
>Tothyer karone janano:
>
> 1.Desh-er kobita goto char bochchor dhorey Joy
(Goswami)
> dekhchchey.
Eta jodi sotyi hoi tobe boli Joy er nirbachoner ruchir opor amar shob
shrodha chole gelo ...MAtro koyeekta (duto ) Desh e kichu porar jogyo
kobita pelam ..Ager gulote she ki ghas khachhilo ?
>
> 2.Shankha Ghosh deergho baro bochchor por
(1982-94) pher
> uporodhey Desh-e likhchchen. Ekjon
Robindro-joyonti
> shongkhya ene dilen shedin, taate "Bhinnoruchir
Odhikar"
> naame ta(n)r oshadharon ekta probondho poRlam.
>
Eta ki kore hostogoto kora jai ???/
> 3.Sibnarayan Ray Jijnasar baire jekhane lekhen
sheta Desh.
Shibnarayan Royer ullekh kono bhabei kono potrikar shobha beshi bhabe
bordhon kore na . Amar mote Anadondobajar ei muhurte Shibnaryan babau r
theke beshi progressive role play korchhe , mani seta sudhui byaboshar
jonne , tai ba kom ki .Din dini Shibanrayan babu ekjon pati marketing
reactionary hoie uthchhen . onr oudhottyo Jyoti boshu keo chariye jai,
Onr Biplob o Biborton proshongye Jijgnasa ti r moto eto reactionary
ebong baje sonkhya gota Poschim BAnglai beriechhe kina sondheyo ....
> 4.Maku party-r Joydeb Boshu-o Desh-e likhchchey
ekhon.
E public ke Maku party bhaoli dhorechhe , Joydeb somproti Ganoshokti
keo besh bhodroshto koreche dekha jachhe ..
>E-shotteo Protishthaan-er kono choritro da(n)rate parena. Posharini
posharini-i
>theke jay. Tar nana shomoye nana chchol.
Eta to bilokshon sotyi . Moja ta hochhe posharini r interest bajare r
popular bostu ke chiniye dei , tahole ki O-pratishtanic bampontha ekhon
BAnglai kachhe beshi . etai to ashar ar mojar kotha . Anando bajar
Mussalman Modhyobitto o o-pratishtanic bam der niye ektu jeno mtechhe
mone hochhye .
>
>Mushkil holo, ar to keu da(n)Rate parchchena biporite. Protishthaan-er
>birudhdhey to ar Protishthaan toiri kora jayna. Tobu amar bishwash
>brithoth banglar onyotomo sreshtho kobira o godyokar-ra ekhono Desh-er
baire
>likhchchen. Udahoron: Goutom Boshu, Nirmal Haldar, mridul Dasgupta,
Goutom
>Choudhuri...
>
Setai ekmatro ashar kotha . AJO BANGLA PORTISHTAN KE PATTA DEI NA .
Eta tike jaak etai amader obhipsha .
>Shoumyo.
Soumitra Bose
In <325851...@hbo.com> Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com>
writes:
Mojata okhanei , BAngladeshe Sunil to ekebare Devota r Somman pai ,
okhankar progotisheel bamponthidero dekhechi little magazine poreneni
na ,Tader living room e "Desh" sthan pai , Sunil America e ele
bangldesheerai dekhi matamati kore , ekjon to NY er NAjmul ar arek dol
oi Probahsi r bashi intellectual goshthi ..Sala Birombona ekei bole .
Naeem Mohaiemen
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> Mojata okhanei , BAngladeshe Sunil to ekebare Devota r Somman pai ,
> okhankar progotisheel bamponthidero dekhechi little magazine poreneni
> na ,Tader living room e "Desh" sthan pai
Moteo na. She thomar bondhu-bandhob er majhe hoitho.. :-)
Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
"Shunil er boi lungi r motho
Porthe aram lage
Kinthun eta pore baire jaowa jai na"
[Subbing Shunil for Humayun]
T.H.Sanyal.
In article <325860...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu>, Shoumyo Dasgupta
<txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> says:
>Othocho Joydeb amake 1990-teo jorgolay bolechchey (Krishna-nagar kobi
>shommelon-e) jey Desh ba Anandabajar-er kono shonkhyay o kokhono
>lekheni, likhbena, karon Desh naki "Congressi-der kagoj".
Do I detect a slight note of disapproval of the said Joydeb here?
[I don't know who this person is]. Even if Desh can be characterized
as a pro-Congress or pro-Establishment outfit, I see no reason not
to try publishing there one's own viewpoint, because that way one can
reach a wider audience. New York Times does not publish views against
the Establishment as a routine matter, but sometimes they might
provide a crack, and if they do, it would be foolish not to take
advantage of that, IMO.
ths.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
I am not talking about essays or views, just poetry or fiction. Views
expressed in such prose or poetry are often cryptic, and taking a crack
does not serve any good to anyone, except engulfing the participant to
be identified with the Establishment.
Shoumyo.
Sambit Basu
Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
Kano?
Sambit
sayan bhattacharyya
Shoumyo Dasgupta <txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> wrote:
>> Do I detect a slight note of disapproval of the said Joydeb here?
>> [I don't know who this person is]. Even if Desh can be characterized
>> as a pro-Congress or pro-Establishment outfit, I see no reason not
>> to try publishing there one's own viewpoint, because that way one can
>> reach a wider audience. New York Times does not publish views against
>> the Establishment as a routine matter, but sometimes they might
>> provide a crack, and if they do, it would be foolish not to take
>> advantage of that, IMO.
>
>I am not talking about essays or views, just poetry or fiction. Views
>expressed in such prose or poetry are often cryptic, and taking a crack
>does not serve any good to anyone,
Shoumyo,
I don't understand you at all. You were complaining earlier (rightly)
that Desh usually publishes second-rate material as literature. Now
Desh does have a wide circulation. So if a crack appears where you
can get some first-rate material in into the pages of Desh, then the
wide readership of Desh will get a chance to be exposed to this
first-rate material. So far from "not serving any good to anyone",
the rare publication of good literature _will_ indeed do good to
this large readership of Desh (insofar as good literature can be
presumed to do good to people).
> except engulfing the participant to
> be identified with the Establishment.
It seems to me that you have got your priorities wrong. The priority
should be to _ not become_ a part of the Establishment; whether one is
_identified_ or not by other people as part of the Establishment should
not be such a big concern. If _you_ know that you are not selling out,
why should you care whether _other people_ think you are selling out
or not, or whether _they_ identify you with the Establishment or not ?
dayboddhota jinish-Ta to orokom lok-dekhani jinish noy (ontoto howa
uchit noy) | nijer "progressive image" bojay roilo kina ei niye jNara
matradhik chintito tNader borabor sondeher chokhe dekhi |
Soumitra Bose
In <325905...@hbo.com> Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com>
writes:
>Soumitra Bose wrote:
>> Mojata okhanei , BAngladeshe Sunil to ekebare Devota r Somman pai ,
>> okhankar progotisheel bamponthidero dekhechi little magazine
poreneni
>> na ,Tader living room e "Desh" sthan pai
>
>Moteo na. She thomar bondhu-bandhob er majhe hoitho.. :-)
>
>
> Porthe aram lage
> Kinthun eta pore baire jaowa jai na"
>
>[Subbing Shunil for Humayun]
anadobajar potrika bole Sunil er boi BAngladeshe beshi bikri hoiecheh..
Apratim Sarkar
Sambit bolechhe:
>Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>
>>Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>
> Kano?
BaRo hole bujhte parbe Sambit ...
> Sambit
Apra.
--
Paramagati, tomar hashi chokhe Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
Hridaye neel dheu balo ke rokhe? are my own and shouldn't be construed in
- Bishnu Dey. any way to represent that of my employer.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>
> dayboddhota jinish-Ta to orokom lok-dekhani jinish noy (ontoto howa
> uchit noy) | nijer "progressive image" bojay roilo kina ei niye jNara
> matradhik chintito tNader borabor sondeher chokhe dekhi |
>
>
Sayan:
I don't think you are interested in arguing about what we are discussing
here...it seems you have a different agenda.
Amar kon "progressive image" bojay rakhar cheshta tomar ushmar karon
holo, bujhlamna.
Shoumyo.
Sambit Basu
Apratim khNuchiyechhe:
>Sambit bolechhe:
>>Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>
>>>Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>
>> Kano?
> BaRo hole bujhte parbe Sambit ...
Nijeke ta'le, shesh obdi, publicly, prodigy hishebe-i
ghoshona korle!!
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
Sambit palta chulkonono'r taal'e bolechhe:
She bayesh ki ar achhe re dada!? Ekhon bhaloi bhaloi tomar biye'ta diye
tarpar jete parlei bNachi.
Sambit Basu
Apratim ebar lyang maarchhe:
>Sambit palta chulkonono'r taal'e bolechhe:
>>Apratim khNuchiyechhe:
>>
>>>Sambit bolechhe:
>>
>>>>Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>
>>>>>Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>
>>>> Kano?
>>
>>> BaRo hole bujhte parbe Sambit ...
>>
>>
>> Nijeke ta'le, shesh obdi, publicly, prodigy hishebe-i
>> ghoshona korle!!
> She bayesh ki ar achhe re dada!? Ekhon bhaloi bhaloi tomar biye'ta diye
> tarpar jete parlei bNachi.
Apratim, shala, kill-file koriye debo.
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu wrote:
>
> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>
> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>
>
> Kano?
Baje lekhe thai.
Plus Taslima fiasco ta the agun dieche she..
Naeem
Naeem Mohaiemen
Soumitra Bose wrote:
> anadobajar potrika bole Sunil er boi BAngladeshe beshi bikri hoiecheh..
Proof for this statement?
Sambit Basu
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>
>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>
>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>
>>
>> Kano?
>Baje lekhe thai.
Tai?
>Plus Taslima fiasco ta the agun dieche she..
E golpo-ta ki?
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Naeem Mohaiemen:
>Taslima fiasco & Sunil's role
>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>E golpo-ta ki? (What's the story?)
SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
(Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
[documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
BD.
2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
3)Bangla Academy rejects award on stated/unstated grounds:
*Anandabazar's communal past
*Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
national institution [although often sceptical of nationalist
saber-rattling, in this case I agree]
4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
*Award that Bangla Academy turns down is then given as consolation to
Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
*Bangla Academy book fair was site of huge fiasco the previous year
with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
way]
5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
"West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
6)Long standing grievances over West-Bengal neo-coloization of
Bangladesh book market, with low price WB books driving less competitive
Bangladeshi book-sellers, now rise to surface. Taslima controversy
becomes lightning rod for a whoe slew of issues surrouding un-even
cultural/book trade between the 2 Bengals.
7)Ananda Puroshkar controversy attracts govt attention, further
solidifying their resolve to ban LAJJA.
8)The infamous fatwa follows the ban, focusing international
commmunity's attention
9)BJP gets into the act by distributing translations of LAJJA,
fulfilling Ahmod Sofa's dire prediction a month before the award:
"I pray to Allah this book does not get to West Bengal, because it has
the power to fan hatred and cause riots."
Rest is known history..
Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
between West Bengal and Bangladesh.
--
Naeem Mohaiemen
HBO Interactive Media
Srabani Banerjee
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
>
>1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
>(Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
>[documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
>Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
>BD.
[...]
Ei je bollen Sunil-ke patta dyan na!
Mr. Mohaiemen, if I give you a mole-hill, will you make a mountain out of it
for me? :)
Srabani
Naeem Mohaiemen
Srabani Banerjee wrote:
>
> Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
> >SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
> >
> >1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
> >(Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
> >[documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
> >Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
> >BD.
> Ei je bollen Sunil-ke patta dyan na!
Patta dei na means thar lekha pochondo kori na, thar politics suspect
kori, thar pronouncements gulo ignore kori.
The post was about the damage he did.
> Mr. Mohaiemen, if I give you a mole-hill, will you make a mountain out of it
> for me? :)
Dhaka-iyya bhasha-e:" Jomlo na, joma-bar chesta byartho"
Palta proman thakle post korun, ar nahoi chepe jan.... :-)
-- "Mr." Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
>1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
>(Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
>[documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
>Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
>BD.
Erokom akta jugantokaari statement korar por-o apnara
Sunil-ke patta dyan na?
>2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
Sunil ekhane bajaare ashchhen ki kore?
>3)Bangla Academy rejects award on stated/unstated grounds:
> *Anandabazar's communal past
> *Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
>national institution [although often sceptical of nationalist
>saber-rattling, in this case I agree]
Sunil ekhane bajare ashchhen ki kore?
>4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
>Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
Sunil-er recommendation-er information-er source-ta
ki apnar? Grapevine noy to?
> *Award that Bangla Academy turns down is then given as consolation to
>Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
>Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
> *Bangla Academy book fair was site of huge fiasco the previous year
>with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
>showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
>was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
>way]
Sunil???
>5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
>to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
>rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
>high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
> "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
"rightly or wrongly" chheDe "slap on entire Bangladesh
intellectual community's face" - ei byapar-tai to
bujhchhi na!! "Bangladesh intellectual community"-r
oboshor binodon ki dukkho-bilash?
>6)Long standing grievances over West-Bengal neo-coloization of
>Bangladesh book market, with low price WB books driving less competitive
>Bangladeshi book-sellers, now rise to surface. Taslima controversy
>becomes lightning rod for a whoe slew of issues surrouding un-even
>cultural/book trade between the 2 Bengals.
Sunil???
>7)Ananda Puroshkar controversy attracts govt attention, further
>solidifying their resolve to ban LAJJA.
Sunil???
>8)The infamous fatwa follows the ban, focusing international
>commmunity's attention
Sunil???
>9)BJP gets into the act by distributing translations of LAJJA,
>fulfilling Ahmod Sofa's dire prediction a month before the award:
> "I pray to Allah this book does not get to West Bengal, because it has
>the power to fan hatred and cause riots."
Sunil???
"progotishilota" ki bangladeshe paranoia, conspiracy theory
ebong mud-slinging-er somarthok hoye poDechhe?
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu wrote:
>
> > Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
> >2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
>
> Sunil ekhane bajaare ashchhen ki kore?
What is the connection between the award and your question?
> >4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
> >Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
>
> Sunil-er recommendation-er information-er source-ta
> ki apnar? Grapevine noy to?
>
Nice try, but sorry-- matter of public record.
Shunil was not/is not embarrassed by his clout over ANANDO puroshkar.
> BA had to have a
> >showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
> >was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
> >way]
>
> Sunil???
Didn't say it was.
Pointing out that award instigated by Shunil snowballed into following
effects.
> >5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
> >to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
> >rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
> >high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
> > "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
> "rightly or wrongly" chheDe "slap on entire Bangladesh
> intellectual community's face" - ei byapar-tai to
> bujhchhi na!! "Bangladesh intellectual community"-r
> oboshor binodon ki dukkho-bilash?
Ki korbo, apnader motho ekhono hoe uth-the pari ni.
> "progotishilota" ki bangladeshe paranoia, conspiracy theory
> ebong mud-slinging-er somarthok hoye poDechhe?
1)Paranoia/Conspiracy theory:
You deleted my last para, which shows that I do not think this was a
conspiracy on Shunil's part. here it is:
" Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
between West Bengal and Bangladesh. "
2)mud-slinging:
Show me where I maligned Shunil's character.
--Naeem Mohaiemen
Srabani Banerjee
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>> >SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
>> >
>> >1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
>> >(Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
>> >[documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
>> >Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
>> >BD.
>
>> Ei je bollen Sunil-ke patta dyan na!
>
>Patta dei na means thar lekha pochondo kori na, thar politics suspect
>kori, thar pronouncements gulo ignore kori.
O.
Ta e-khetre `pronouncement'-ta ignore kora gyalo na keno?
>The post was about the damage he did.
>
>> Mr. Mohaiemen, if I give you a mole-hill, will you make a mountain out of it
>> for me? :)
>
>
>Dhaka-iyya bhasha-e:" Jomlo na, joma-bar chesta byartho"
Eta Dhakaiya? Kolkata-y to alada kichhu boli na amra.
>Palta proman thakle post korun, ar nahoi chepe jan.... :-)
Kisher palta proman? Apnar puro post-e Sunil-er reference dubaar -
tar modhye ekta proman shapekkho. Emniteo duto khetrei onar dosh-ta
thik ki - sheta bhalo korey bojha gyalo na. Tao jodi monet koren je
onar `high-handedness'-er karon-e BD ar WB-r shomporko kharap hoye gyalo,
tahole kintu patta-ta ektu beshi-i dichchhen.
Chepe jete bolchhen keno? Apnar shubidhe hobe, tai? :)
>-- "Mr." Mohaiemen
Bhul hoyechhe? Naeem-babu cholbe?
Srabani
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Naeem Mohaiemen (naeem.m...@hbo.com) wrote:
: SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
: 1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
: (Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
: [documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
: Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: BD.
~~~~~
I have not read this piece (Jabo Na Keno Jabo). However, I fail to see
how Sunil's advice/suggestion/request to Taslima can be seen as a
"driving wedge" between WB and BD.
: 2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did they declare the award? Or did they send some feelers to Bangla
Academy expressing their (i.e Anandabazar's) willingness to award Ananda
Puroshkar to Bangla Academy?
: 3)Bangla Academy rejects award on stated/unstated grounds:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Again, was this "rejection" AFTER or BEFORE the official declaration of
the award.
: *Anandabazar's communal past
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't know about this. References please. However, I do know that
Anandabazar did publish articles condemning Babri masjid incident. Also
there are pieces by Sunil where he has
a)Praised the Bhasha Andolan.
b)Lamented the partition of Bengal
c)Expressed an opinion that Bangladesh will be the only flag bearer of
the Bengali culture.
None of these show a communal or (as alleged elsewhere), a Talukdari
mentality.
: *Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: national institution [although often sceptical of nationalist
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: saber-rattling, in this case I agree]
Okay. If it be so then why feel insulted that the award went subsequently
to Taslima. Firstly, you state that a particular award is beneath your
stature and therefore you would not accept it. But then you feel mighty
insulted if the same award is given to another person.
: 4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
: Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How is it a slap? Bangla Academy considered beneath their stature.
: *Award that Bangla Academy turns down is then given as consolation to
: Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
: Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isn't it called the dog in the manger attitude.
: *Bangla Academy book fair was site of huge fiasco the previous year
: with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
: showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
: was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
: way]
Taslima wrote that she was physically threatened in the book fair. By
this type of argument one can allege that the famous death threat was
also issued by Taslima's pet mullah. Taslima also wrote that some youth
paraded in the book fair threatening her physically. Surely as organisers
of the book fair, Bangla Academy is responsible for physical intimidation
of authors.
: 5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Ananda Purashkar was for Nirbachito Column and not Lajja. Lajja was
published later.
: to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
: rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
: high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
: "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So let us see what happened. Ananda Pursashkar is awarded to Bangla
Academy. Bangla Academy declines the award because it is below their
stature. The award goes to Taslima. Bangladeshi Intellectuals feel that
it is a slap on their face. What kind of intelectuals will get worked up
over an award which they themselves felt was below their stature. If
anyone should at all feel insulted in the whole episode (assuming it to
be true) it should be Taslima, because she was the second choice.
: 6)Long standing grievances over West-Bengal neo-coloization of
: Bangladesh book market, with low price WB books driving less competitive
: Bangladeshi book-sellers, now rise to surface. Taslima controversy
: becomes lightning rod for a whoe slew of issues surrouding un-even
: cultural/book trade between the 2 Bengals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Books are not potatos or Illish Mach. People read books for satisfaction
of their intellectual, emotional urge. The freeer the book trade the more
is the exchange of ideas and better the intellectual climate. I suspect
that Bangladeshi publishers engineered the outcry because their monopoly
profits were being affected.
: 7)Ananda Puroshkar controversy attracts govt attention, further
: solidifying their resolve to ban LAJJA.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As mentioned before the prize was for Nirbachito column and not Lajja.
: 8)The infamous fatwa follows the ban, focusing international
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: commmunity's attention.
And pray what has happened to the fatwa givers? Taslima had to live the
life in exile away from her family and country.
: 9)BJP gets into the act by distributing translations of LAJJA,
: fulfilling Ahmod Sofa's dire prediction a month before the award:
: "I pray to Allah this book does not get to West Bengal, because it has
: the power to fan hatred and cause riots."
BJP used Lajja to further their own nefarious design. Incidentally, BJP
edited those parts of Lajja which were critical of BJP.
: Rest is known history..
: Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
: But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
: between West Bengal and Bangladesh.
You took quite a leap of logic here.
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Sambit Basu
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>> > Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>> >2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
>> Sunil ekhane bajaare ashchhen ki kore?
>What is the connection between the award and your question?
In the first place, what is the connection between
Sunil Ganguly and your statement?
>> >4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
>> >Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
>> Sunil-er recommendation-er information-er source-ta
>> ki apnar? Grapevine noy to?
>Nice try, but sorry-- matter of public record.
Kon record? Kothay paabo? Please be specific.
>> BA had to have a
>> >showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
>> >was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
>> >way]
>>
>> Sunil???
>Didn't say it was.
>Pointing out that award instigated by Shunil snowballed into following
>effects.
1. Recommendation and instigation, as far as I know, are
not synonymous.
2. According to you, all Sunil did was to _recommend_
LOJJA (should be "Nirbachito Colunm)for Ananda
Puroshkar, which is awardedf by a Business house.
If that has so much effect on "progotisheel" bangladeshis,
then you must have been miles away from truth while
commenting "Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...".
3. And if a mere recommendation by Sunil has so much
effect, I think you will be better off giving him
some more "pattha".
>> >5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
>> >to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
>> >rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
>> >high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
>> > "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
>> "rightly or wrongly" chheDe "slap on entire Bangladesh
>> intellectual community's face" - ei byapar-tai to
>> bujhchhi na!! "Bangladesh intellectual community"-r
>> oboshor binodon ki dukkho-bilash?
>Ki korbo, apnader motho ekhono hoe uth-the pari ni.
Shosta sentu hoye gyalo na? Taar theke oi "slap...face'-ta
ektu bujhiye din na.
>> "progotishilota" ki bangladeshe paranoia, conspiracy theory
>> ebong mud-slinging-er somarthok hoye poDechhe?
>1)Paranoia/Conspiracy theory:
>You deleted my last para, which shows that I do not think this was a
>conspiracy on Shunil's part. here it is:
Apnar post-e akguchchho point-e matro duti-te Sunil-er
ullekh chhilo, bakiguli-te nishchoi Sunil ganguly-r
"odrishyo kaalo haat" apni dekhechhen, noile sheguli
ei thread-e lekhar kono proyojon chhilo na.
Paranoia/Conspiracy Theory-r ullekh-er karon ei.
>" Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
>But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
>fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
>between West Bengal and Bangladesh. "
>2)mud-slinging:
>Show me where I maligned Shunil's character.
Without enough factual substantiation, you are accusing
Sunil Ganguly of planning a rift between WB and Bangladesh!
Isn't that enough?
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
> > Naeem Mohaiemen
> >> >2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
>
> >> Sunil ekhane bajaare ashchhen ki kore?
>
> >What is the connection between the award and your question?
>
> In the first place, what is the connection between
> Sunil Ganguly and your statement?
ANANDA puroshkar
> >> >4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
>
> >> Sunil-er recommendation-er information-er source-ta
> >> ki apnar? Grapevine noy to?
>
> >Nice try, but sorry-- matter of public record.
>
> Kon record? Kothay paabo? Please be specific.
Ok, will get it for you.
> >Pointing out that award instigated by Shunil snowballed into following
> >effects.
>
> 1. Recommendation and instigation, as far as I know, are
> not synonymous.
Didn't say it was.
> 2. According to you, all Sunil did was to _recommend_
> LOJJA (should be "Nirbachito Colunm)for Ananda
> Puroshkar, which is awarded by a Business house.
> If that has so much effect on "progotisheel" bangladeshis,
> then you must have been miles away from truth while
> commenting "Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...".
It had "so much effect" not because of Shunil.
But because award rejected by Bangla Academy was SUBSEQUENTLY given to
Taslima Nasrin.
> 3. And if a mere recommendation by Sunil has so much
> effect, I think you will be better off giving him
> some more "pattha".
Of course recommendation by Shunil has huge impact on ANandabazar
decisions.
What does that have to do w Bangladesh giving him pattha?
> >> >5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
> >> >to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
> >> >rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
> >> >high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
> >> > "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
> Shosta sentu hoye gyalo na? Taar theke oi "slap...face'-ta
> ektu bujhiye din na.
SLAP ON FACE:
Because Bangla Academy is our NATIONAL institution.
It is the highest [in spite of its flaws] institution carrying out
Bangla cultural activities in Bangladesh.
Slap #1: A commercial magazine [one that many Bangladeshis associate w
its role in 1948 and later communal ill-feelings; ergo cartoon on
Bhashani, etc] from West Bengal was giving an award to Bangladesh's
HIGHEST NATIONAL cultural institution. Reverse the situation, would
BICHITRA magazine think to give their yearly award to WB's highest
cultural institution? No. Because it would be seen as
oudhotthyo/arrogance
Slap #2: BA rejects the award. AB then turns around and gives it to
Taslima Nasrin. This action was seen as, to quote one newspaper article
"Taslima & Bangla Academy were brought to same level. Was Taslima
raised, or Bangla Academy lowered?}
> >> "progotishilota" ki bangladeshe paranoia, conspiracy theory
> >> ebong mud-slinging-er somarthok hoye poDechhe?
>
> >1)Paranoia/Conspiracy theory:
>
> >You deleted my last para, which shows that I do not think this was a
> >conspiracy on Shunil's part. here it is:
>
> Apnar post-e akguchchho point-e matro duti-te Sunil-er
> ullekh chhilo, bakiguli-te nishchoi Sunil ganguly-r
> "odrishyo kaalo haat" apni dekhechhen, noile sheguli
> ei thread-e lekhar kono proyojon chhilo na.
>
> Paranoia/Conspiracy Theory-r ullekh-er karon ei.
No, Idid not say his "invisble hand" in events such fatwa, BJP, etc.
I described snowballing effect of his ANANDA award efforts.
> >" Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
>
> >But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
> >fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
> >between West Bengal and Bangladesh. "
>
> >2)mud-slinging:
>
> >Show me where I maligned Shunil's character.
>
> Without enough factual substantiation, you are accusing
> Sunil Ganguly of planning a rift between WB and Bangladesh!
> Isn't that enough?
Read my last paragraph:
"Perhaps Sunil had good intentions. But result of his.."
Result is NOT EQUAL to "planning a rift".
--
Naeem Mohaiemen
Naeem Mohaiemen
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> Naeem Mohaiemen (naeem.m...@hbo.com) wrote:
>
> : SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
> : 1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
> : (Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
> I have not read this piece (Jabo Na Keno Jabo). However, I fail to see
> how Sunil's advice/suggestion/request to Taslima can be seen as a
> "driving wedge" between WB and BD.
Not this by itself. "opening salvo". Subsequent actions.
> : 2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Did they declare the award?
Announced. But I will confirm from written source.
[If I do not w/in a week, please prod me via e-mail]
> : 3)Bangla Academy rejects award on stated/unstated grounds:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Again, was this "rejection" AFTER or BEFORE the official declaration of
> the award.
-do-
> : *Anandabazar's communal past
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I don't know about this. References please.
Ok. Will do. Same comment as above.
> Anandabazar did publish articles condemning Babri masjid incident.
Yes, read it.
But but Babri is extreme incident. Would not expect AB to praise.
AB's role is subtle, patronizing, "dadagiri".
> there are pieces by Sunil where he has
> a)Praised the Bhasha Andolan.
> b)Lamented the partition of Bengal
> c)Expressed an opinion that Bangladesh will be the only flag bearer of
> the Bengali culture.
> None of these show a communal or (as alleged elsewhere)
Yes, agreed doesn't show he is communal. [I didn't allege that eiether]
>a Talukdari mentality.
No. Disagree.
Because you would mourn the passing of your taluk.
> : *Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : national
> Okay. If it be so then why feel insulted that the award went subsequently
> to Taslima.
See my response to Sambit_Basu.
In a word: placing Taslima & BA on same level.
> : 4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
> : Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> How is it a slap? Bangla Academy considered beneath their stature.
See above.
> : *Award that Bangla Academy turns down is then given as consolation to
> : Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
> : Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Isn't it called the dog in the manger attitude.
No.
> : *Bangla Academy book fair was site of huge fiasco the previous year
> : with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
> : showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
> : was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
> : way]
> Taslima wrote that she was physically threatened in the book fair. By
> this type of argument one can allege that the famous death threat was
> also issued by Taslima's pet mullah.
Note, I wrote: "never proven either way".
>Bangla Academy is responsible for physical intimidation
> of authors.
Yes. How does this go against gist of my point?
Which was: BA had stormy relationship w Taslima
> : 5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Ananda Purashkar was for Nirbachito Column and not Lajja. Lajja was
> published later.
Correct.
My mistake.
> So let us see what happened. Ananda Pursashkar is awarded to Bangla
> Academy. Bangla Academy declines the award because it is below their
> stature. The award goes to Taslima. Bangladeshi Intellectuals feel that
> it is a slap on their face. What kind of intelectuals will get worked up
> over an award which they themselves felt was below their stature. If
> anyone should at all feel insulted in the whole episode (assuming it to
> be true) it should be Taslima, because she was the second choice.
Agreed. She should have rejected it. :-)
> Books are not potatos or Illish Mach. People read books for satisfaction
> of their intellectual, emotional urge. The freeer the book trade the more
> is the exchange of ideas and better the intellectual climate. I suspect
> that Bangladeshi publishers engineered the outcry because their monopoly
> profits were being affected.
It is not a free book trade.
It is one sided. Bangladesh takes and takes. WB market has barriers.
> And pray what has happened to the fatwa givers? Taslima had to live the
> life in exile away from her family and country.
-Govt should have taken action against illegal "fatwa"
-Govt should not have banned LAJJA
But this does not go against my comments on WB's role.
> : Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
>
> : But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
> : fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
> : between West Bengal and Bangladesh.
> You took quite a leap of logic here.
Don't think so.
Pavel
Naeem,
Are we missing something here?
1. Sunilkey asoley or lekha diye judge kora uchit.. Even Taslimakeo.
Suniler upponas amar kharap lagey na.. kichu kichu beshvalo lagey. kintu
onekdin suniler kono lekha porhi na...Or kobita khub kom porechi.
2. Jodio anadobazar kolkatay khub nami potrika, etar style amar valo
lageni.. ki jani onovasey kina...So if Bnagla academy did not consider
anandobazar-pusorkar, its ok i think...
3. If Taslima accepts that rejected prize then its not at all an insult
for bangla academy and not even to bangali atel(intellectual) somaj.
4. Bangla academy is a government institution. It is tough to lead the
cuture and literature of a society under government policies and
pressure. Kintu bangla-academy is still performing very well. Kintu eta
goverment institution, kajei kono kono kobi shittiker sathey er 'ganjam'
lagbei.. So Bangla academy alone does not represent 'bangladeshi atel
somaj'.
5. We really did not handle the Taslima issue in a proper way. Somajey
Taslima-hatred dhukiye dewa hoyechey odvut vabey. Even jara jiboney or
lekha porheni tarao okey ghrina korey... Its amazing.
6. Bangladesher culturey bichitra, robbar eder bazar sotti besh komey
gachey. Jay jay din ban hobar por Khoborer kagoj, bichinta esob potrika
bazarta dhorar chesta korto. Taslima sei somoy esob potrikay likhto. Or
lekhar style amar valoi lagto. Kintu onek kichutei puro ekmot hotey
partam na. (bodhoy purus bolei). Kintu or jukti dewar khomota ar lekhoni
amar valo lagto. Kintu sotti boltey ki, or upponnasgulo ekebari silly
chilo.. kebol 'columgulo' chilo valo. Conservvative lokhjon thik eta
hojom kortey pareni. Tai they hit taslima at the first chance. I mean
taslima was not hit because she attacked religion, she was hit because
she hit the society.
7. May be she was wrong in some of her views. Kintu er jonno takey
deshchara korar kono many nei. Tobey taslima duniajorha nam peyegelo.
Janina etoborho _sahittik_ o chilo na.
8. Still we cry ' Why AB gave her the prize?'.. Amar vabtey lojja hoy
amader somajey sohonsilota eto kom jey sahittikra je kono bishoye
likhtay paren na. Humnayun ahmed was attacked by judges and doctors for
silly reason... Tumi ekta daktar chorittrokey silly dekhatey parbey na,
tumi ekjon darhiola lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. tumi kono
professioner lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. O taholey rupkothar
golpo lekho..
9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye sahittey
egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho? Etar ekmattro jobab
hochchey bangadeshey valo sahitto shriti kora. Amader natok, kobita
khubi valo. Amar money hoy amra oder cheye edutotei egiye achi.. kintu
amader upponas nei.. amader somajey adhunik sahitto astey somoy lagbey.
amader manuser pete vat nei.. tara natok dekhbey kemon korey. Tachachra
amader somaj conservative.. ekhaney nutun kotha bolley seta sohojvabey
newar lok kom.. fawta diley tar basobayan korar loker songkha kom nei...
10. I m expecting flames...:)..
'Echara nutun kichu petey holey somoyer par hoye choley jete hobey'
-Pavel
Apratim Sarkar
Kichhu proshno:
1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
1.a. Dile, keno?
1.b. Na dile, keno na?
2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
2.a. Hole, keno?
2.b. Na hole, keno na?
3. Tomar mate, Sunil'ke patta na deowa ki be-aini kore deowa uchit? [yes/no]
<Repeat questions 2.a and 2.b.>
Uttor'r protikkhai,
Apratim.
--
Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
- Arun Kumar Sarkar.
Apratim Sarkar
While response from the general reader is most welcome, the following
questions were addressed, in particular, to Sambit.
Apratim Sarkar
sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>
>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>>Baje lekhe thai.
>
> Tai?
'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
> Sambit
Apra.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Apratim Sarkar wrote:
> Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo
> Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo
> Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane|
> - Arun Kumar Sarkar.
Eta money poRchchey. Oshadharon kobita. Purota post korbey, APra ?
Ar, tar shongey, " Shinduk nei, ShworNo anini,/ enechchi bhikhkhalobdho
dhanyo/Oduti chokher taathkhoniker/ pabo ki porosh/ jothshamanyo ? "
-- oita ?
Shoumyo.
Ihtisham Kabir
Interesting.
For me the critical issue was that Taslima cried foul
about her country to people outside the country and
they egged her on. I don't care if it is India or
Uzbekistan, the point is that a foreign organization gave
her an award based on a work where she says bad things
about her country, her society, and her religion.
Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with what
she says, I resent this aspect of the situation.
- Ihtisham
ps, interesting anecdote: I remember reading a TN essay
in Dhaka where she talked about some hijackers mugging
women and taking jewelry from them. She launched into
a vicious attack on all the passersby who had stood
around and done nothing, and, as she claimed, enjoyed
the scene. Then I opened up the daily newspaper and
on the first page was a story of a hijacker who had
tried to mug a woman in Mohammedpur and a crowd had
chased him and one person from the crowd had actually
shot him. The irony was that I read both the pieces
on the same day (but they talked of two separate
incidents.)
Asif Saleh
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> Naeem Mohaiemen (naeem.m...@hbo.com) wrote:
>
> : SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
>
> : 1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
> : (Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
> : [documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
> : Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : BD.
> ~~~~~
> I have not read this piece (Jabo Na Keno Jabo). However, I fail to see
> how Sunil's advice/suggestion/request to Taslima can be seen as a
> "driving wedge" between WB and BD.
I agree with Nalinaksha here that a mere suggestion by Sunil to Taslima
can/should not be seen as an act of "driving wedge" between the two
Bengals.
>
> : 2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Did they declare the award? Or did they send some feelers to Bangla
> Academy expressing their (i.e Anandabazar's) willingness to award Ananda
> Puroshkar to Bangla Academy?
>
They declared the award thru news release and Bangla Academi after
some deliberation decided to reject the award because of the reasons
mentioned above.
> : 3)Bangla Academy rejects award on stated/unstated grounds:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Again, was this "rejection" AFTER or BEFORE the official declaration of
> the award.
After, of course.
>
> : *Anandabazar's communal past
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I don't know about this. References please. However, I do know that
> Anandabazar did publish articles condemning Babri masjid incident.
Anandabajar is one of the topmost reactionary newspapers of the two
Bengals.
The fact that Anandabajar has progressive facade makes it even more
dangerous
than papers who are known to be communal. I can give you one particular
reference of their communal attitude. I had the misfortune of being in
Calcutta when the Babri riot broke out. The very next day of the riot
when tensions were running extremely high in the city with rumors
floating
everywhere and curfew being imposed, Anandabajar comes out with a
headline
saying "Dhakeshwari Mandir in Dhaka destroyed". Result -- A worsened
and more volatile situation and worse Hindu-Muslim riot in Calcutta.
Now
was this news true? No. It was totally biased. I can only see their
communal desires behind publishing this false story. There are many
records like this.
> Also
> there are pieces by Sunil where he has
> a)Praised the Bhasha Andolan.
> b)Lamented the partition of Bengal
> c)Expressed an opinion that Bangladesh will be the only flag bearer of
> the Bengali culture.
> None of these show a communal or (as alleged elsewhere), a Talukdari
> mentality.
I agree with you here too. To accuse Sunil of creating a rift between
WB and Bangladesh is like saying Gandhi wanted a Pakistan. :-)
Sunil's track record in championing Bangladesh's cause is proven.
Those who are accusing Sunil should just go to the library and
start reading "purbo-Poshchim" once again to refresh their memories.
>
> : *Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : national institution [although often sceptical of nationalist
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> : saber-rattling, in this case I agree]
>
> Okay. If it be so then why feel insulted that the award went subsequently
> to Taslima. Firstly, you state that a particular award is beneath your
> stature and therefore you would not accept it. But then you feel mighty
> insulted if the same award is given to another person.
Maybe insult is not the correct word here, rather Anandabajar Potrika
wanted to "slap" Bangla Academy's "arrogance" by giving the award
to Taslima, who was extremely controversial at that time in Bangladesh
and
was in no way in good terms with the establishment like Bangla Academy.
Here I would like to point a factual mistake made by Naeem. Taslima was
awarded the Ananda Puroshkar not for Lojja but for her infamous
"nirbachito
column" which was written more to champion her feministic cause
rather than the anti-religion ones.
>
> : 4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
> : Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> How is it a slap? Bangla Academy considered beneath their stature.
>
See above. Although I fail to see why Sunil is solely to be blamed for
this
politics.
> : *Award that Bangla Academy turns down is then given as consolation to
> : Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
> : Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Isn't it called the dog in the manger attitude.
>
> : *Bangla Academy book fair was site of huge fiasco the previous year
> : with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
> : showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
> : was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
> : way]
> Taslima wrote that she was physically threatened in the book fair. By
> this type of argument one can allege that the famous death threat was
> also issued by Taslima's pet mullah. Taslima also wrote that some youth
> paraded in the book fair threatening her physically. Surely as organisers
> of the book fair, Bangla Academy is responsible for physical intimidation
> of authors.
>
> : 5)Taslima accepts award for LAJJA. Intended slap on BA's face is taken
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The Ananda Purashkar was for Nirbachito Column and not Lajja. Lajja was
> published later.
Oops...coming down this far I see you have already caught the mistake.
Oh well.
But yes, Lojja was published at the Boimela of 1993 and Taslima got her
award in
1992. At that fair some young hoodlums brought out a procession saying
"taslima-r phashi chai" in "protest" of her feministic writings. The
Mullahs
were not really in action at that time.
>
> : to be slap on entire Bangladesh intellectual community's face [whether
> : rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
> : high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
> : "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> So let us see what happened. Ananda Pursashkar is awarded to Bangla
> Academy. Bangla Academy declines the award because it is below their
> stature. The award goes to Taslima. Bangladeshi Intellectuals feel that
> it is a slap on their face. What kind of intelectuals will get worked up
> over an award which they themselves felt was below their stature. If
> anyone should at all feel insulted in the whole episode (assuming it to
> be true) it should be Taslima, because she was the second choice.
>
The only reason I can see Bangladeshi intellectuals feel insulted is
becuase
of the fact that all those years before 1992 Anandabaja Prokashona
just ignored the likes Shamsur Rahman, Syed Shamsul Haque and Abul Hasan
and all on a sudden they went ga ga over Taslima because of her
anti-Islam attitude. However, quoting Ahmad Sofa as the representative
of Bangladeshi intelleetuals is not wise since he is only considered
to be an extremist in Bangladeshi circle. Besides, he had
personal conflict with Taslima as well.
mmmmmmmmm ....Naeem is totally out of line there. No comment.
> --
> Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
--
Asif Saleh
Hassan Alam
Ihtisham Kabir (ka...@Eng.Sun.COM) wrote:
: Interesting.
We have to close ranks and take care of ourselves. We are on our own,
bro.
: For me the critical issue was that Taslima cried foul
: - Ihtisham
--
Hassan Alam
Pavel
Ihtisham Kabir wrote:
>
> Interesting.
>
> For me the critical issue was that Taslima cried foul
> about her country to people outside the country and
> they egged her on. I don't care if it is India or
> Uzbekistan, the point is that a foreign organization gave
> her an award based on a work where she says bad things
> about her country, her society, and her religion.
>
where she made wrong statements and critisize those. She
criticized a lot and its not always unfair to criticise.
Thats what literature for.. to find out the bad sides
of the society and its an effort to improve the society.
Have you read 'pollisamaj' by 'saratchandra'. He was
really critical of the society.
For example, Naeem informed us about the chakma issue and I appreciate
his effort to show us 'WE TREATED THEM BADLY'.. Even if some of his
information was wrong i will not say 'he is speaking goul about our
country or its army'...
> Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with what
> she says, I resent this aspect of the situation.
>
I agree. I disagreed with her in somepoints and at
some points I could not find holes in her reasoning
(and there she was probably correct).. Whether she is
correct or incorrect I find to reason to cry 'Taslimar
fashi chai' or something like this...
> - Ihtisham
>
portions deleted...
Kalpataru Barman
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
> >Naeem Mohaiemen:
> >Taslima fiasco & Sunil's role
>
> >>Sambit Basu wrote:
> >>E golpo-ta ki? (What's the story?)
>
>
> 1) Sunil said to Taslima "Taslima thui Bangladesh e ki firbi, ekhanei
> (Calcutta) theke ja!" (why would you go back, stay here in Calcutta)
> [documented in Taslima's "JABO NA KENO JABO"].
> Opening salvo of Sunil adoration of Taslima driving wedge between WB &
>
> 2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
>
> *Anandabazar doesn't have stature to give an ward to Bangladesh's
>
> Reason of course is to deliver a slap in Bangla Academy's face since:
> Taslima [even if it was given to anyone else: Nasrin Jahan. Subrata
> Augustine Gomes, etc; perceived insult would be same]
> with Taslima's last collection of feminist literature. BA had to have a
> showdown w Taslima after it was alleged that harrassment of her stall
> was actually orchestrated by Talsima supporters [never proven either
> way]
>
> rightly or wrongly]. Newspapers blow up over the news of WB's
> high-handedness. Genesis of Ahmod Sofa's famous statement:
> "West Bengal still thinks Bangladesh is their own private thaluk"
>
> Bangladesh book market, with low price WB books driving less competitive
> Bangladeshi book-sellers, now rise to surface. Taslima controversy
> becomes lightning rod for a whoe slew of issues surrouding un-even
> cultural/book trade between the 2 Bengals.
>
> solidifying their resolve to ban LAJJA.
>
>
> 9)BJP gets into the act by distributing translations of LAJJA,
> fulfilling Ahmod Sofa's dire prediction a month before the award:
> "I pray to Allah this book does not get to West Bengal, because it has
> the power to fan hatred and cause riots."
>
>
> Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
>
> But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
> between West Bengal and Bangladesh.
>
> Naeem Mohaiemen
> HBO Interactive Media
Ei thread ta thekey Bangladesh-er samprotik kaaler sahity-charcha
niye khanik-ta jana gelo. Kintu jodi WB Bangali-der samrotik-kaaler
Bangladeshi lekhok/lekhika der madhhye Taslima-ke baad diye karo naam
kortey boltey hoi, tabe kintu anekei bhaabtey bosben. Hoito prasno
korben je, apnaara Bangladesher sahitya poren, je jaanben ?
Kintu Sangeet-er khetrey taa thik noi. Aamra je Dhaka radio
sab-samaya suni ta noi, kintu Rejwana Banya Chowdhury baa Runa
Laila baa Lok-sangeet shilpi-ra kintu WB e besh janapriya.
Aar Ahmed Sofa-r baktabya thik bujhlaam naa. WB e jara riot
korey thaaken, tara kotojon Lajja porey ekaaje nemechhen jaani naa.
Pavel
Asif Saleh wrote:
>
> >
>
I agree with you & nalik at most of the points.. Still there are some
points where
i would love to add something (faltu pachal )
> Oops...coming down this far I see you have already caught the mistake.
> Oh well.
>
> But yes, Lojja was published at the Boimela of 1993 and Taslima got her
> award in
> 1992. At that fair some young hoodlums brought out a procession saying
> "taslima-r phashi chai" in "protest" of her feministic writings. The
> Mullahs
> were not really in action at that time.
>
Ok here we go.. Who were the taslima haters? Mollahs? I doubt how many
of them
read her writing or books before 1993. Mostly we are grown up in
maledominant
society (i m not saying its bad :) because i m male ). So her aggressive
feminism could not be tolerated in our culture.. Thats why we have so
many
Taslima-haters. But i found it amazing that most of the girls had some
sympathy for her even most of them do not agree with her at some points.
Even in SCB we discuss 'how is islamic inheritance law?' or something
like
this. Some of us do not even agree with that law. they were never hated
in
SCB. But Taslima came with sheer feminism. I am pretty sure that if
somebody
starts to writes with agressive feminism in SCB, she must be hated even
in
SCB.
> The only reason I can see Bangladeshi intellectuals feel insulted is
> becuase
> of the fact that all those years before 1992 Anandabaja Prokashona
> just ignored the likes Shamsur Rahman, Syed Shamsul Haque and Abul Hasan
> and all on a sudden they went ga ga over Taslima because of her
> anti-Islam attitude. However, quoting Ahmad Sofa as the representative
> of Bangladeshi intelleetuals is not wise since he is only considered
> to be an extremist in Bangladeshi circle. Besides, he had
> personal conflict with Taslima as well.
1. Its seems funny to me that Shamsur Rahman, Syed Shamsul Haque etc
would
like to compete with Taslima for anando purusker (where Sunil
recommands).
Are u saying shamsur rahman needs a recommandation from sunil?
2. If anandobazar is communal why would shamsur rahman or shamsul hoque
be aspirant for this prize? Why do we all spend so much time on it?
3. These papers like 'jay jay din', 'bichinta', 'ajker kagoj' and
'desbondhu'
created a new style in bengali literature (even culture). All the
writers in
that brand were new. Taslima was also saying something new. They got the
market.
That may be a reason the some of the old intellectuals may like those
uprising
writers. In some cases the new columnist groups were trying to create
stunt or
controversy to catch the people's attention...
4. I mean most of these intellectuals are not even that much islamic.
And taslima
got it for 'nirbachito colum' (before publishing 'lojja'). At that time
she was
famous for her extremist feminist attitude not anti-islamic attitude.
Its not
an exception the a columnist will criticise his society, poletics of his
country,
even current (social, religious) establishment. Taslima was just a bit
more
agressive and aggressive feminism was something that we could not
tolerate...
>
> Asif Saleh
(portions deleted in fear of saying too much ' i agree')
-Pavel
Mahmud Husain
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>>Naeem Mohaiemen:
>>Taslima fiasco & Sunil's role
>
>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>E golpo-ta ki? (What's the story?)
>
>SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
>
Aei Naeem chaoyal-ta borDo bipake falaya dae...aare baap tomar ki kaam babujan aar
didimoshai-go loge takko korar! Bangal chaoyal, u(n)hara hoilen giya amago bap dada
choiddo-gusthir shikkhok...amago aaji jayi dakho shob khaniktai-e ta(n)go kirpa-ey.
Kadachit bhuliyo na jadu. Aalpo boyosh to, g(h)ar taera mi aakhono rakte-r majhe
uthal pathal kore.
Be-akkal, bet-tamij ta-re aapnara maaf koira diyen nijer kiripay:)
Saarbo bangal-er pakkhey,
Mahmud Husain.
sayan bhattacharyya
I am interested in knowing Apratim's own answers to the questions as
well. I request him to submit his own answers, as I am curious about
his own stand on the issue.
-Sayan.
Apratim Sarkar <asa...@us.oracle.com> wrote:
>While response from the general reader is most welcome, the following
>questions were addressed, in particular, to Sambit.
>
>I wrote:
>
>>Kichhu proshno:
>>
>>1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
>>
>>1.a. Dile, keno?
>>
>>1.b. Na dile, keno na?
>>
>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>
>>2.a. Hole, keno?
>>
>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>
>>3. Tomar mate, Sunil'ke patta na deowa ki be-aini kore deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>
>><Repeat questions 2.a and 2.b.>
>>
>>Uttor'r protikkhai,
>>Apratim.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
>>Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
>>Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
>> - Arun Kumar Sarkar.
>
>
>--
>Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
>Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
>Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
> - Arun Kumar Sarkar.
sayan bhattacharyya
>Mostly we are grown up in
>maledominant
>society. So her aggressive
>feminism could not be tolerated in our culture.
If that is true, then I say that it is time that we changed our culture
(and I am saying this for both Bengals, not just for Bangladesh or West
Bengal).
Come guys, let us give a big push and throw this culture of ours
which does not respect women, into the nearest sea (which would be the Bay of
Bengal, I presume). We can do it if we have enough hands. Heave-ho ...
-Sayan.
P.S. Fatwas and/or manusmriti/vedic indictments will be redirected
to /dev/null.
sayan bhattacharyya
Ihtisham Kabir <ka...@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
>
>For me the critical issue was that Taslima cried foul
>about her country to people outside the country and
>they egged her on.
>I don't care if it is India or
>Uzbekistan, the point is that a foreign organization gave
>her an award based on a work where she says bad things
>about her country, her society, and her religion.
I think Ihtisham misses the point entirely.
"Foreign" organizations routinely give awards to people for writing
books or making films. Satyajit Ray, for example, won the Golden Palm
at the Cannes Film Festival for his film "Pather Panchali". At that time,
a lot of people in India (notably Nargis Dutt, then a member of parliament)
criticized Ray on the ground that he was selling India's poverty to "foreign"
audiences to win awards.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn received the Nobel prize for writing books like
"The Gulag Archipelago", in which he exposed the nefarious system of forced
labor camps that existed within the USSR. At that time, the USSR raised
the same criticism that you are raising against Taslima: namely that he was
denigrating "his country, his society" with an eye on foreign prizes.
More recently, the Nigerian Nobel prize winner, Wole Soyinka, who now
lives in exile in the West, has written a book about NIgeria called
"The Open Sore of a COntinent". As you can guess from the title, it
is not a flattering portrait of Nigeria. The vicious military junta which rules
Nigeria has complained in exactly the same terms that you are complaining
about Taslima: namely that he is denigrating his country to foreigners.
Note that I am NOT comparing Taslima Nasrin to Ray or Wole Soyinka. I am
giving the above examples to show that the "X is bad because X is denigrating
our country to foreigners in his/her work" argument is a dangerous argument
which can easily lead to blindness to one's own faults and even to fascism.
By all means, criticize Taslima. But not on the ground of whether
an organization which gave her a prize was "foreign" or not. Criticize her
on her facts and expose her factual errors if any.
szm...@alpha.cc.oberlin.edu
In article <325CFB...@hbo.com>, Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
I can believe that, because of the sheer number of people in Bangladesh
compared with people in west bengal. I don't think that everyone in WB even
reads bengali!
zaed----------------------------------Oberlin
>Soumitra Bose wrote:
>
>> anadobajar potrika bole Sunil er boi BAngladeshe beshi bikri hoiecheh..
>
>Proof for this statement?
Kalpataru Barman
Apratim Sarkar wrote:
> Kichhu proshno:
>
> 1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
> 2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
*** No. Kenona taholey Sunil matahi uthey bosbey. Aar bhalo lekhaar
kono tagid thaakbey naa.
>
> 3. Tomar mate, Sunil'ke patta na deowa ki be-aini kore deowa uchit? [yes/no]
*** No. See Ans 2.
Naeem Mohaiemen
Pavel wrote:
>
> Naeem,
> Are we missing something here?
You are adding some of the missing parts into the debate. Dhonnyobad.
> 1. Sunilkey asoley or lekha diye judge kora uchit.. Even Taslimakeo.
> Suniler upponas amar kharap lagey na.. kichu kichu beshvalo lagey. kintu
> onekdin suniler kono lekha porhi na...Or kobita khub kom porechi.
His writing should be judged to evaluate him as a writer.
I was describing the social phenomenon of Sunil's interaction w BD, some
very good [as when he said future of Bangla was in BD] and some not so
positive.
My thread was never intended as a critique of his writing.
Even my infamous {and deliberately inflammatory, and in retrospect
foolish] comment that "Shunil is a GOBET" was purely reflective of my
frustration w his role/misguided attempts to help which actually hurt
progressives by giving Jamaat a mega-weapon.
GOBET was little too much. Me being my usual hot-headed self.
But my later comments should be discussed w/out shadow of GOBET comment
over our heads.
> 2. Jodio anadobazar kolkatay khub nami potrika, etar style amar valo
> lageni.. ki jani onovasey kina...So if Bnagla academy did not consider
> anandobazar-pusorkar, its ok i think...
The issue was not it's style. But it's perceived past role.
> 3. If Taslima accepts that rejected prize then its not at all an insult
> for bangla academy and not even to bangali atel(intellectual) somaj.
Perhaps not in your eyes, but BANGLA ACADEMY and some parts of BD
society, esp Dhaka society, considered it so.
> 4. Bangla academy is a government institution. It is tough to lead the
> cuture and literature of a society under government policies and
> pressure. Kintu bangla-academy is still performing very well. Kintu eta
> goverment institution, kajei kono kono kobi shittiker sathey er 'ganjam'
> lagbei.. So Bangla academy alone does not represent 'bangladeshi atel
> somaj'.
No, but it is our highest OFFICIAL cultural body.
> 6. Bangladesher culturey bichitra, robbar eder bazar sotti besh komey
> gachey. Jay jay din ban hobar por Khoborer kagoj, bichinta esob potrika
> bazarta dhorar chesta korto. Taslima sei somoy esob potrikay likhto. Or
> lekhar style amar valoi lagto. Kintu onek kichutei puro ekmot hotey
> partam na. (bodhoy purus bolei). Kintu or jukti dewar khomota ar lekhoni
> amar valo lagto. Kintu sotti boltey ki, or upponnasgulo ekebari silly
> chilo.. kebol 'columgulo' chilo valo. Conservvative lokhjon thik eta
> hojom kortey pareni. Tai they hit taslima at the first chance. I mean
> taslima was not hit because she attacked religion, she was hit because
> she hit the society.
I agree.
That's why we should be more angry at her. She had the opportunity to
be a revolutionizing impact in Bangladesh. Can you imagine mofossol er
mey rag/bishad/ghrina nie likhche, about men infecting their middle
class wives with the germs they pick up from their prostitutes, all the
while maintaining the facade of "shob kichu thik thak" that we prize so
much? That was Taslima.
SHe had the opportunity to do so much for us. And she threw it all
away. Threw it away with the comment to Calcutta journalist that Koran
needed full revision. In one moment completely gave all her enemies in
BNP, AL, Jamaat, Bangladesh rokkhonshil shomaj, all the ammunition they
needed to bury her.
And they did..
> 7. May be she was wrong in some of her views. Kintu er jonno takey
> deshchara korar kono many nei. Tobey taslima duniajorha nam peyegelo.
> Janina etoborho _sahittik_ o chilo na.
Absolutely, BNP govt did a shameful thing by banning LAJJA and, by not
condemning the death threats, created an environment where she could be
hounded out of the country.
The sad truth? AL is just as oppportunistic and will not let her in
either.
And while we are on the subject: let's not lie about the Bangladesh
Hindu temple smashing after Babri incident.
-It happened
-Jamaat was NOT only party that did it
-BNP, AL goons also did it and stood by in many areas
> 8. Still we cry ' Why AB gave her the prize?'.. Amar vabtey lojja hoy
> amader somajey sohonsilota eto kom jey sahittikra je kono bishoye
> likhtay paren na. Humnayun ahmed was attacked by judges and doctors for
> silly reason... Tumi ekta daktar chorittrokey silly dekhatey parbey na,
> tumi ekjon darhiola lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. tumi kono
> professioner lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. O taholey rupkothar
> golpo lekho..
Your critique of BD society's unwillingness to hear any critique is spot
on.
But should keep that separate from AB award.
AB has history in this and it not simply, OH Bangladesh e amra boro
sporshokathor..there is more going on there
Naeem Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>> >> >2)Anandabazar gives ANANDA puroshkar to Dhaka's Bangla Academy
>>
>> >> Sunil ekhane bajaare ashchhen ki kore?
>>
>> >What is the connection between the award and your question?
>>
>> In the first place, what is the connection between
>> Sunil Ganguly and your statement?
>ANANDA puroshkar
Tahole shudhu Sunil Ganguly kano? Ananda ebong Ananda
Puroshkar-er shonge shonglishto aro n-jon lok non kano?
>> >> >4)Sunil recommends that AB give the rejected award to Taslima Nasrin.
>>
>> >> Sunil-er recommendation-er information-er source-ta
>> >> ki apnar? Grapevine noy to?
>>
>> >Nice try, but sorry-- matter of public record.
>>
>> Kon record? Kothay paabo? Please be specific.
>Ok, will get it for you.
Dhonyobaad.
>> >Pointing out that award instigated by Shunil snowballed into following
>> >effects.
>>
>> 1. Recommendation and instigation, as far as I know, are
>> not synonymous.
>Didn't say it was.
No, but implied the same. Once you said that Ananda puroshkar
was awarded as *recommended* by Sunil, and then you said
the award was *instigated* by Sunil. Do you see the parallel?
>> 2. According to you, all Sunil did was to _recommend_
>> LOJJA (should be "Nirbachito Colunm)for Ananda
>> Puroshkar, which is awarded by a Business house.
>> If that has so much effect on "progotisheel" bangladeshis,
>> then you must have been miles away from truth while
>> commenting "Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...".
>It had "so much effect" not because of Shunil.
Then why are you accusing Sunil?
>But because award rejected by Bangla Academy was SUBSEQUENTLY given to
>Taslima Nasrin.
>
>> 3. And if a mere recommendation by Sunil has so much
>> effect, I think you will be better off giving him
>> some more "pattha".
>Of course recommendation by Shunil has huge impact on ANandabazar
>decisions.
>What does that have to do w Bangladesh giving him pattha?
Jodi karur "recommendation"-er phol "Bangladesh-er
progotisheel"-der opor amon sudur-proshari atMo-biDombona-r
srishti kore, tobe shei lok-tir karjokolaap-ke patta
deowa "progotisheelota-r" shasthyer pokkhe bhalo.
Bangladesh-er patta-r kotha ami bolini, Bangladesh-er
"progotisheel"-er patta-r kotha bolechhi.
>SLAP ON FACE:
>Because Bangla Academy is our NATIONAL institution.
>It is the highest [in spite of its flaws] institution carrying out
>Bangla cultural activities in Bangladesh.
>Slap #1: A commercial magazine [one that many Bangladeshis associate w
>its role in 1948 and later communal ill-feelings; ergo cartoon on
>Bhashani, etc] from West Bengal was giving an award to Bangladesh's
>HIGHEST NATIONAL cultural institution. Reverse the situation, would
>BICHITRA magazine think to give their yearly award to WB's highest
>cultural institution? No. Because it would be seen as
>oudhotthyo/arrogance
That's BICHITRA's prerogative.
Bangla Academy jodi mone kore je Ananda goshthi tader ANanda
puroshkar debar jogyo noy, shei puroshkar protyakhyan korar
purno odhikar tader royechhe, amonki sheta-ke ouddhotyo bole
bhabte paare. Kintu, er pechhone kono bishesh byakti-r
chokranto aachhe - (promaan chhaDa) amon mone kora, amar
mote, heenomonyota ebong oshomeecheen.
>Slap #2: BA rejects the award. AB then turns around and gives it to
>Taslima Nasrin. This action was seen as, to quote one newspaper article
>"Taslima & Bangla Academy were brought to same level. Was Taslima
>raised, or Bangla Academy lowered?}
E duto-r akta hote-i hobe?
>> >> "progotishilota" ki bangladeshe paranoia, conspiracy theory
>> >> ebong mud-slinging-er somarthok hoye poDechhe?
>>
>> >1)Paranoia/Conspiracy theory:
>>
>> >You deleted my last para, which shows that I do not think this was a
>> >conspiracy on Shunil's part. here it is:
>>
>> Apnar post-e akguchchho point-e matro duti-te Sunil-er
>> ullekh chhilo, bakiguli-te nishchoi Sunil ganguly-r
>> "odrishyo kaalo haat" apni dekhechhen, noile sheguli
>> ei thread-e lekhar kono proyojon chhilo na.
>>
>> Paranoia/Conspiracy Theory-r ullekh-er karon ei.
>No, Idid not say his "invisble hand" in events such fatwa, BJP, etc.
>I described snowballing effect of his ANANDA award efforts.
If one wishes, this particular snowball can be traced back
to any event, remotely connected to this. All one needs
to have is a wild imagination!
>> >" Perhaps Sunil had good intentions.
>>
>> >But result of his patronizing, high-handed, "I know what's good for you"
>> >fumbling has been a controversy that did great damage to relations
>> >between West Bengal and Bangladesh. "
>>
>> >2)mud-slinging:
>>
>> >Show me where I maligned Shunil's character.
>>
>> Without enough factual substantiation, you are accusing
>> Sunil Ganguly of planning a rift between WB and Bangladesh!
>> Isn't that enough?
>Read my last paragraph:
>"Perhaps Sunil had good intentions. But result of his.."
^^^^^^^
>Result is NOT EQUAL to "planning a rift".
Naeembabu, conjectures - positive or negetive - are not
good sources for making allegations, IMO. Especially, when
you cannot establish a rational and logical cause-and-effect
relationship between your conjecture and the result.
Sambit
ps. Ei thread-e amar shesh post. "Anandabazar vs Bangladesh"
- ei shironaam diye amar kono boktobyo nei, tachhaDa alochona-r
muul proshongo onyo chhilo bole-i amar dharona.
Naeem Mohaiemen
Asif Saleh wrote:
> Sunil's track record in championing Bangladesh's cause is proven.
> Those who are accusing Sunil should just go to the library and
> start reading "Purbo-Poshchim" once again to refresh their memories.
I've read PURBO POSHCHIM.
Again I wrote, "His intentions may have been godd, but result.."
> See above. Although I fail to see why Sunil is solely to be blamed for
> this politics.
He is not to be blamed solely for it.
> The only reason I can see Bangladeshi intellectuals feel insulted is
> becuase of the fact that all those years before 1992 Anandabaja Prokashona
> just ignored the likes Shamsur Rahman, Syed Shamsul Haque and Abul Hasan
> and all on a sudden they went ga ga over Taslima because of her
> anti-Islam attitude.
You don't even have to go that far.
What about
Rudro Mohammed Shahidullah
Nasrin Jahan
Humayun Ajad
Farhad Mazhar ["Suddenly Ready For Export Woman Production Machine",
etc]
Shahid Kadri
Nirmolendu Goon?
etc.. etc
Where was AB then?
> However, quoting Ahmad Sofa as the representative
> of Bangladeshi intelleetuals is not wise since he is only considered
> to be an extremist in Bangladeshi circle. Besides, he had
> personal conflict with Taslima as well.
I didn't say he was representative.
Thing I like about him is, thar mukhe kono lagam nai. Onnyora jeta
rekhe dheke rakhe, for rpopriety, he just blurts out. Which is not to
say he is not often wrong. But at least he soeaks HIS mind, and doesn't
try to be polite.
Personal conflicts yes. But if you ACTUALLY read him, you will see he
mentions that upfront and says, in spite of our conflicts
--
Naeem "Jodi thor jukthi/chithkar keu mane na, thobe ekla cholo he"
Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>
>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>
>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>
>>>> Kano?
>>
>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>
>> Tai?
> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
O.
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
Mone hoi successfully various threads [Taliban, Sunil, Anandabazar, etc]
er maddhyome successfully antagonized ALL possible factions in the
world.
AT this point, factions jaderke khepiechei include:
leftist
rightist
calcutta
dhaka
shokol dhormio gothro
shokol lingo [purush, sthri, klib--meaning table/chair, etc]
shokol generation
shokol educational discipline
Mone hoi ey season e elections ar nambo na.. :-)
Teknaf theke Thethulia
Shobai bole... Naeemke pita
Ankur Saha
In article <53s5v4$e...@news.cc.oberlin.edu> szm...@alpha.cc.oberlin.edu writes:
>In article <325CFB...@hbo.com>, Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>I can believe that, because of the sheer number of people in Bangladesh
>compared with people in west bengal. I don't think that everyone in WB even
>reads bengali!
>
>
>zaed----------------------------------Oberlin
>
Sesh kathati hoq katha!
Ek to TV'r kalyane ekti nirokkhor projonme'r srishthi hotey cholechhey
Poschim Bongey. Amra chhotobelai je samai-ta galper boi paDtam, ekhon
kishor-kishorira TV dekhey katai.
Ar Ingreji-medium-school-->IIT-or-equivalent-->Bhalo-chakri: ei
padakkhep gulo-r moddhey ar Bangla bhalo shekhar abakash kothai!
Deshe gele lakkho kari: chenashona bangali-ra Ingreji bhul likhley ba
bolley lajja pai. Bangla'r khhetre reaction-ta thik ulto. "Janen to,
Bangla-ta amar thik ashey na!".
Disgusted! Asha korbo BD-te abosthata er cheye bhalo.
>
>
>>Soumitra Bose wrote:
>>
>>> anadobajar potrika bole Sunil er boi BAngladeshe beshi bikri hoiecheh..
>>
>>Proof for this statement?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ankur Saha
Manager, Ada WorkShop e-mail: an...@Eng.Sun.COM
SunSoft, Developer Products voice: (415) 786-9110
Naeem Mohaiemen
Ankur Saha wrote:
> Deshe gele lakkho kari: chenashona bangali-ra Ingreji bhul likhley ba
> bolley lajja pai. Bangla'r khhetre reaction-ta thik ulto. "Janen to,
> Bangla-ta amar thik ashey na!".
Fisrt came face to face w this in college here where I wopuld run into
Calcattaya s, of the 90s generation, none of whom could speak Bangla.
Also shopkeeper is bangali, he knows I am a bangal, ohtocho jor korei
amake hindi bollo..
Ihtisham Kabir
In article d...@news.eecs.umich.edu, bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
> Ihtisham Kabir <ka...@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
> >
> >For me the critical issue was that Taslima cried foul
> >about her country to people outside the country and
> >they egged her on.
>
> >I don't care if it is India or
> >Uzbekistan, the point is that a foreign organization gave
> >her an award based on a work where she says bad things
> >about her country, her society, and her religion.
>
> I think Ihtisham misses the point entirely.
No, I think you, Sayan, are missing my point.
Without criticizing her work, all I am saying is that it is
irritating for me to watch yet another pile of s**t dumped
on the people of Bangladesh who have been working very hard
to shovel away all the other s**t that has been dumped on them
since Kissinger's "International Basket Case".
For the people of Bangladesh the continued negative exposure
is *more* than just irritation (despite the positive gains
made by Bd women in recent years). Negative publicity
hurts because it turns off investors and plays into the hands
of those who are not our well-wishers.
>
> "Foreign" organizations routinely give awards to people for writing
> books or making films. Satyajit Ray, for example, won the Golden Palm
> at the Cannes Film Festival for his film "Pather Panchali". At that time,
> a lot of people in India (notably Nargis Dutt, then a member of parliament)
> criticized Ray on the ground that he was selling India's poverty to "foreign"
> audiences to win awards.
Completely irrelevant here. Ray's movies are great. Pather
Panchali shows an idyllic village childhood despite the poverty.
Nargis was crying sour grapes. Ray's work has added to India's stature
in the world. TN's work has been used to diminish Bd's stature.
>
> Alexander Solzhenitsyn received the Nobel prize for writing books like
> "The Gulag Archipelago", in which he exposed the nefarious system of forced
> labor camps that existed within the USSR. At that time, the USSR raised
> the same criticism that you are raising against Taslima: namely that he was
> denigrating "his country, his society" with an eye on foreign prizes.
Again completely irrelevant. He was speaking out against an
entrenched and evil regime.
>
>
> More recently, the Nigerian Nobel prize winner, Wole Soyinka, who now
> lives in exile in the West, has written a book about NIgeria called
> "The Open Sore of a COntinent". As you can guess from the title, it
> is not a flattering portrait of Nigeria. The vicious military junta which rules
> Nigeria has complained in exactly the same terms that you are complaining
> about Taslima: namely that he is denigrating his country to foreigners.
One more time, can you say completely irrelevant?
Soyinka is not being used like TN is. He a highly regarded writer.
Abeche's is a repressive dictatorship.
>
> Note that I am NOT comparing Taslima Nasrin to Ray or Wole Soyinka. I am
> giving the above examples to show that the "X is bad because X is denigrating
> our country to foreigners in his/her work" argument is a dangerous argument
> which can easily lead to blindness to one's own faults and even to fascism.
Perhaps, but I often wonder "Why couldn't TN become famous
by writing an epic novel, or by making a beautiful movie?" Then I
realize, others from Bd have probably done that, but they did not
become famous. TN became famous because she maligned Bd and Islam.
>
> By all means, criticize Taslima. But not on the ground of whether
> an organization which gave her a prize was "foreign" or not. Criticize her
> on her facts and expose her factual errors if any.
My criticism is not so much of her work but rather of the
(perhaps initially unintended by her) consequence of her
having played into the hands of the Islam- and Bangladesh-bashers.
It is all very well to sit in the luxury of the West and
think high and mighty thoughts about TN's work and tell Bd people
what is good for them, but I have no doubt that it has done more
harm than good for the people of Bangladesh who work very hard,
very honorably every day to earn their livelihood.
- Ihtisham, speaking his mind
>
>
>
>
>
Apratim Sarkar
Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
>
>
> Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
In article <53tktq$q...@er6.rutgers.edu> sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>>questions were addressed, in particular, to Sambit.
>
>
>>>Kichhu proshno:
>>>
>>>1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
>
>
>
>>>1.a. Dile, keno?
>
> Adhunik ebong shochchho-chinta-r lok. Oshadharon godyo
> lekhen.
>
>>>1.b. Na dile, keno na?
>
>
>
>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>
>
>
>>>2.a. Hole, keno?
>
> N/A.
>
>
>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>
Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
preference'!?
>>>3. Tomar mate, Sunil'ke patta na deowa ki be-aini kore deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>
> Na.
>
>
>>><Repeat questions 2.a and 2.b.>
>
> Same as above.
>
>
> Sambit
Pavel
Naeem
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
:> Pavel wrote:
:> >
:> > Naeem,
:> > Are we missing something here?
:>
:> You are adding some of the missing parts into the debate.
Dhonnyobad.
I really donot get enuogh chance to say anything against you.. but this
time
I got u :)
:> > 1. Sunilkey asoley or lekha diye judge kora uchit.. Even
Taslimakeo.
:> > Suniler upponas amar kharap lagey na.. kichu kichu beshvalo lagey.
kintu
:> > onekdin suniler kono lekha porhi na...Or kobita khub kom porechi.
:>
:> His writing should be judged to evaluate him as a writer.
:>
:> I was describing the social phenomenon of Sunil's interaction w BD,
some
:> very good [as when he said future of Bangla was in BD] and some not
so
:> positive.
:>
:> My thread was never intended as a critique of his writing.
:>
:> Even my infamous {and deliberately inflammatory, and in retrospect
:> foolish] comment that "Shunil is a GOBET" was purely reflective of my
:> frustration w his role/misguided attempts to help which actually hurt
:> progressives by giving Jamaat a mega-weapon.
:>
:> GOBET was little too much. Me being my usual hot-headed self.
yeah thats what i figured out.. you were hot-headed..
:> But my later comments should be discussed w/out shadow of GOBET
comment
:> over our heads.
:>
:> > 2. Jodio anadobazar kolkatay khub nami potrika, etar style amar
valo
:> > lageni.. ki jani onovasey kina...So if Bnagla academy did not
consider
:> > anandobazar-pusorkar, its ok i think...
:>
:> The issue was not it's style. But it's perceived past role.
Thats where i have not that much information. But i read some indian for
only some weeks.
:> > 3. If Taslima accepts that rejected prize then its not at all an
insult
:> > for bangla academy and not even to bangali atel(intellectual)
somaj.
:>
:> Perhaps not in your eyes, but BANGLA ACADEMY and some parts of BD
:> society, esp Dhaka society, considered it so.
But its not logical. If u get a prize and refuse it. If i m offered it
after your
rejection. If i accpet it, then how i m insulting you? Even it was given
to Nasrin Jahan or somebody else , some people would be jealous... Its
just the nature of
professional jealousy.. Whats why should we stop awarding anyone?
:> > 4. Bangla academy is a government institution. It is tough to lead
the
:> > cuture and literature of a society under government policies and
:> > pressure. Kintu bangla-academy is still performing very well. Kintu
eta
:> > goverment institution, kajei kono kono kobi shittiker sathey er
'ganjam'
:> > lagbei.. So Bangla academy alone does not represent 'bangladeshi
atel
:> > somaj'.
:>
:> No, but it is our highest OFFICIAL cultural body.
The way BA and some other intellectual bahaved it seems they did not
want
Taslima to be awarded. I donot think AB should have taken BA's consent
before
awarding Taslima...
:> > 6. Bangladesher culturey bichitra, robbar eder bazar sotti besh
You know what ? Nobody is perfect. So not everything Taslima was writing
was depicting our society. We could criticize her. Thats not the way she
was treated. The statement for which Taslima was _convicted_ was not at
all
matured one. But i think more offensive comments even went through
without any protest. Some newspapers just picked it up to hit her. She
denied that she
said it and its even possible that 'newspapers can use some
_creativity_'.
:> SHe had the opportunity to do so much for us. And she threw it all
:> away. Threw it away with the comment to Calcutta journalist that
Koran
:> needed full revision.
Its silly comment. How she can make it is not understandable to me. I
wrote
about it before...
:> In one moment completely gave all her enemies in
:> BNP, AL, Jamaat, Bangladesh rokkhonshil shomaj, all the ammunition
they
:> needed to bury her.
Yeah what ever you do some of those guys will find faults in you.
Humayun Ahmed
niriho manus.. Takeo ki kom somalochona kora hoyechey?
:> And they did..
>
:> > 7. May be she was wrong in some of her views. Kintu er jonno takey
:> > deshchara korar kono many nei. Tobey taslima duniajorha nam
peyegelo.
:> > Janina etoborho _sahittik_ o chilo na.
:>
:> Absolutely, BNP govt did a shameful thing by banning LAJJA and, by
not
:> condemning the death threats, created an environment where she could
be
:> hounded out of the country.
As matter of fact she got more fame she was due. now she became so
controversial
that everybody will read whatever she writes and noboy is going to take
her
seriously.. nobody is going to praise her...But i think she had some
real potential.
:> The sad truth? AL is just as oppportunistic and will not let her in
:> either.
Yeah they are so...Thats poletics...
:> And while we are on the subject: let's not lie about the Bangladesh
:> Hindu temple smashing after Babri incident.
>
:> -It happened
:> -Jamaat was NOT only party that did it
:> -BNP, AL goons also did it and stood by in many areas
Yes they did...
I like her in a way that she was trying to depict something that others
were afraid to touch.. But her xecellence was as a columnist not as
a novelist
:> > 8. Still we cry ' Why AB gave her the prize?'.. Amar vabtey lojja
hoy
:> > amader somajey sohonsilota eto kom jey sahittikra je kono bishoye
:> > likhtay paren na. Humnayun ahmed was attacked by judges and doctors
for
:> > silly reason... Tumi ekta daktar chorittrokey silly dekhatey parbey
na,
:> > tumi ekjon darhiola lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. tumi kono
:> > professioner lokkey kharap dekhatey parbey na.. O taholey
rupkothar
:> > golpo lekho..
:>
:> Your critique of BD society's unwillingness to hear any critique is
spot
:> on.
:>
:> But should keep that separate from AB award.
Yeah you might want to make it a separate point. But to me there is a
relation
between awards and contemporary literature. I was bored to read 'imdadul
hoque'er
panpanani premer golpo.. Humayun Ahmedo jeno eki golpo barbar likhey
cholchilen.
Tader lekha valo.. kintu jiboner somossa chilo. It was time to create
some new
subject. And the guys like Anisul hoque, Taslima Nasrin, Nasrin Jahan
they were
really creating something new. I was happy to know that somebody of new
generation
goit awarded. Some of the puronoatel did not like it.
Believe me i tried to ask people about 'humayun azad''s nari. I found no
girl
who liked it. I still believe Taslima did a better job than him. I liked
some
of Humayun azad's writing. But really Taslima's nari-bisoyok lekhagulo
Humayun
Azader cheye better chilo. She was extreme in some cases, but she went
to real
points.
I saw the guys you proposed for anando Award. I guess Taslima started to
write
ahead of Nasrin Jahan. She was a little more famous than Nasrin. Both
have
different kind of capability and lack. But the way i appreciate Taslima
she
started the trend.
Even if they awarded Nasrin Jahan. the problem would not be solved. May
be
Nasrin Jahan would be Taslima Nasrin. You probably know that Nasrin
Jahan
signed the campaign supporting Rushdie's freedom of speech. (Taslima
signed
it and the retreated). So she would be hit if she were as famous as
Taslima.
Humayun Azad himself is also controversial in that sense. But he got the
award we would have solved the problem. Becuase his nari was more
charming to
sexist guys than weman.. Thats Taliban peacefulness... Some of us donot
like it
Some of us like wars more than Taliban peacefulness...
Farhad Mazhar, Goon, Kadri kaukei award diley sobaikey khusi kora jeto
na. Ebong
tader keui oi trend ta toiri koreni.. SAid nothing new at the
contemporary time.
I liked some of Farhad Mazhar writing. Goon was great. But Lets take an
example howabout awarding on a poem
"amar kobitay ami jeno sheikh mujiber kotha boli"...
No.. its not the realy problem of the society.. Farhad Mazhar was also
interested
with silly poletical issues.. "BNP kharap AL kharap" eisob kotha jemon
amra ekhaney torkatorki kori.. esob bishoy award ditey holey dewa uchit
safiq rehmankey... (My personal choice is Anisul
Hoque[Desbondhu/Purbavas]) Even Minar Mahmud.. But I guess that
was not way too different... We were criticizing poleticians for over a
long time.
Rudro was a potential poet, but he was a spoiled guy..HE never utilized
his full
potential. Shahid Kadri was great.. (I read very few of his poems)
But the Taslima was different. She took a new subject that really
effects the society. She hit the society.. May be some of her critcisism
were not at all
justified.. but weman really started to read her. Some sexist people
started to
hate her.. Her effort was continuosly directed to an aim.. So i did not
find it
unjustified
:> AB has history in this and it not simply, OH Bangladesh e amra boro
:> sporshokathor..there is more going on there
:>
About AB you may be correct.. but i donot find anything wrong with
recommending
Taslima Nasrin for AB award..
:> Naeem Mohaiemen
Regards
-Pavel
Indranil DasGupta
Mahmud Husain (mhu...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
: >>Naeem Mohaiemen:
: >>Taslima fiasco & Sunil's role
: >
: >>>Sambit Basu wrote:
: >>>E golpo-ta ki? (What's the story?)
: >
: >SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
: >
: [deleted to enhance understanding]
: Aei Naeem chaoyal-ta borDo bipake falaya dae...aare baap tomar ki kaam babujan aar
: didimoshai-go loge takko korar! Bangal chaoyal, u(n)hara hoilen giya amago bap dada
: choiddo-gusthir shikkhok...amago aaji jayi dakho shob khaniktai-e ta(n)go kirpa-ey.
: Kadachit bhuliyo na jadu. Aalpo boyosh to, g(h)ar taera mi aakhono rakte-r majhe
: uthal pathal kore.
: Be-akkal, bet-tamij ta-re aapnara maaf koira diyen nijer kiripay:)
: Saarbo bangal-er pakkhey,
: Mahmud Husain.
Darun diyechhen! Amar-i du-kan lal hoye galo (bangal-er chhele bole).
Ar Naeem-er ja korlen tar kachhe Taslima-r boi-melar obhigyota-o dNaDay
na bodh-hoy.
IDG.
Naeem Mohaiemen
sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> In article <325F32...@cs.purdue.edu>, Pavel <n...@cs.purdue.edu> wrote:
>
> >Mostly we are grown up in
> >maledominant
> >society. So her aggressive
> >feminism could not be tolerated in our culture.
>
> If that is true, then I say that it is time that we changed our culture
> (and I am saying this for both Bengals, not just for Bangladesh or West
> Bengal).
>
> Come guys, let us give a big push and throw this culture of ours
> which does not respect women, into the nearest sea (which would be the Bay of
> Bengal, I presume). We can do it if we have enough hands. Heave-ho ...
This is an oversimplification, BUT:
It's a MALE problem more than a CULTURAL problem.
The problem is US, and we invent cultural artifacts that help us justify
our sexism.
That's why, woman hating comes up in various forms in all cultures.
Some society's have gone through reform to change, we have a long way to
go.
Perhaps push all the men [myself included] into the sea..? :-)
Completely multi-culti quote here from a John Lennon song:
"Woman is the NIGGER of the world
Yes she is
We make her paint her face and dance
And when she tries to be free
We accuse her of trying to be a MAN.."
[words a bit hodge podge]
--
Naeem Mohaiemen
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>While response from the general reader is most welcome, the following
>questions were addressed, in particular, to Sambit.
>I wrote:
>>Kichhu proshno:
>>
>>1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
Yes.
>>1.a. Dile, keno?
Adhunik ebong shochchho-chinta-r lok. Oshadharon godyo
lekhen.
>>1.b. Na dile, keno na?
N/A.
>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
No.
>>2.a. Hole, keno?
N/A.
>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
Personal preference.
Mahmud Husain
bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>
>>amake hindi bollo..
>
>and English is nowadays the language of choice of many of the sons and
>daughters of the elite class in Calcutta.
>
I haven't lived in Dhaka for a while, curious if the same holds true for the upper
classes there.
The ethnic makeup of the place is also important, does it have to do with the fact
that the financial and cultural elite of Calcutta is largely non-bengali and
all-indian and Calcutta has ceased to be a bengali city!
btw, diversity has to be celebrated and not resisted, if anything bengali language
and culture will be enriched in the long run by contributions from various
ethnicities that inhabit Calcutta.
Mahmud Husain.
sayan bhattacharyya
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>Also shopkeeper is bangali, he knows I am a bangal, ohtocho jor korei
>amake hindi bollo..
I've noticed this too. Apparently a strange dialect of mixed Hindi
and English is nowadays the language of choice of many of the sons and
daughters of the elite class in Calcutta.
sotyo seleucus bichitro bichitro ei desh (ebong bichitrotoro tahar
uchcho shreni) ...
Fortunately, the culture of the parasitic elite class does not constitute
the culture of a nation. Never has, never will. It is the common people
who nurture, and in turn are nurtured by, the language.
"So long as life can breathe or eyes can see,
You live in this, and this gives life to thee."
-- William Shakespeare.
sayan bhattacharyya
Mahmud Husain <mhu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>btw, diversity has to be celebrated and not resisted, if anything bengali language
>and culture will be enriched in the long run by contributions from various
>ethnicities that inhabit Calcutta.
True, and indeed the different ethnic communities living in Calcutta have
enriched Calcutta's cultural life (the vibrant Hindi-language theater of
Calcutta, such as Usha Ganguli's theater group "Rongokormee" and Shyamanand
Jalan's Calcutta-based Hindi-language theater unit, is a good example of this).
What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
I couldn't care less what the elites do -- they could go to hell on a
handbasket as far as I am concerned. My concern is because, just because
they have a lot of money and control of the media, the elite have the
power to disseminate and even impose their non-culture on the people. I
am certain, however, that the people will resist it, and certain developments
in the past few years (such as the popularity of Suman Chattopadhyay)
indicates to me that good culture will definitely survive.
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>In article <53tqar$l...@er6.rutgers.edu> sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>
>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>
>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kano?
>>>>
>>>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>>>
>>>> Tai?
>>
>>> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
>>
>>
>>
>> O.
> Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
O, tai?
Sambit
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>In article <53tktq$q...@er6.rutgers.edu> sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>While response from the general reader is most welcome, the following
>>>questions were addressed, in particular, to Sambit.
>>
>>>I wrote:
>>
>>>>Kichhu proshno:
>>>>
>>>>1. Tumi ki Sunil'ke patta dao? [yes/no]
>>
>> Yes.
[...]
>>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>
>> No.
[...]
>>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>
>> Personal preference.
> Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
> preference'!?
Ami to bhai, patta-na-deowa sommondhe kichhu bolini,
patta na debar karon-ta-ke contest korchhilum!
Sambit
Arnab Gupta
Sayan Bhattacharya wrote:
..[deleted]..
>True, and indeed the different ethnic communities living in Calcutta have
>enriched Calcutta's cultural life (the vibrant Hindi-language theater of
>Calcutta, such as Usha Ganguli's theater group "Rongokormee" and Shyamanand
>Jalan's Calcutta-based Hindi-language theater unit, is a good example of this).
>
>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
Aykta udahoron paoa jaabe ei `non-culture'-er ?
>I couldn't care less what the elites do -- they could go to hell on a
>handbasket as far as I am concerned. My concern is because, just because
>they have a lot of money and control of the media, the elite have the
>power to disseminate and even impose their non-culture on the people. I
>am certain, however, that the people will resist it, and certain developments
>in the past few years (such as the popularity of Suman Chattopadhyay)
>indicates to me that good culture will definitely survive.
Achha ei `elite' kara ? Uporer lekha porley mone hoi `poishaola' sreni|
Taholey ki eta dhorey nebo je `gorib' srenir lokera ei `non-culture'er
prishthoposhokota korey na ?
Arnab.
Rabbul H. Mirza
Great Title! It's one of those that reflects the attitude or to be
more precist 'the mind set' of a SCB reader/contributor.. Ha..Ha.
Let's see how many people I can get mad with this comment....
Ciou
Rabbul H. Mirza
--
^^^^^^^^
o | o
|
\___/
Mahmud Husain
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
>Mahmud Husain <mhu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>btw, diversity has to be celebrated and not resisted, if anything bengali language
>>and culture will be enriched in the long run by contributions from various
>>ethnicities that inhabit Calcutta.
>
>enriched Calcutta's cultural life (the vibrant Hindi-language theater of
>Calcutta, such as Usha Ganguli's theater group "Rongokormee" and Shyamanand
>Jalan's Calcutta-based Hindi-language theater unit, is a good example of this).
>
>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
>handbasket as far as I am concerned. My concern is because, just because
>they have a lot of money and control of the media, the elite have the
>power to disseminate and even impose their non-culture on the people. I
>am certain, however, that the people will resist it, and certain developments
>in the past few years (such as the popularity of Suman Chattopadhyay)
>indicates to me that good culture will definitely survive.
>
>
The elites historically, in bengal at least, subscribed to and promoted a norm of
cultural discourse which was alien to the larger populace. The cultural rejuvenation
of bengal in the nineteenth century was as foreign to the peasents of lower bengal
as the antasarsunnyo non-culture is to the slum dwellers of Calcutta or Dhaka. Their
descendents, us, benefit now from the cultural artifacts which may have seemed to be
irrelevant to the life and times then.
I do agree, however, that a non-culture with no local roots has to be combated since
we may not have the benefit of hindsight a hundred years hence.
Mahmud Husain.
Apratim Sarkar
sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>
>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>
>>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>>
>>> No.
>
>>>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>>
>>> Personal preference.
>
>> Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
>> preference'!?
>
> Ami to bhai, patta-na-deowa sommondhe kichhu bolini,
> patta na debar karon-ta-ke contest korchhilum!
Keno, personal preference!
> Sambit
Apratim.
Apratim Sarkar
sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>
>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>
>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>
>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>
>>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kano?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tai?
>>>
>>>> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
>>>
>>> O.
>
>> Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
>
> O, tai?
Je kono ekta dilei, jodiyo, ekhane cholto. Duto ektu beshi beshi mone
hochche.
Apratim Sarkar
GUP...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Arnab Gupta) writes:
>Sayan Bhattacharya wrote:
>>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
>
>Aykta udahoron paoa jaabe ei `non-culture'-er ?
Suman'r gaan?
[Proshno, ja age Sambit'ke korechhilum.
Grade, in a scale of 1-10, Suman vs. R. D. Barman as a composer and
Suman vs. Kishore Kumar as a singer.]
>>I couldn't care less what the elites do -- they could go to hell on a
>>handbasket as far as I am concerned. My concern is because, just because
>>they have a lot of money and control of the media, the elite have the
>>power to disseminate and even impose their non-culture on the people. I
>>am certain, however, that the people will resist it, and certain developments
>>in the past few years (such as the popularity of Suman Chattopadhyay)
>>indicates to me that good culture will definitely survive.
>
>Achha ei `elite' kara ? Uporer lekha porley mone hoi `poishaola' sreni|
>Taholey ki eta dhorey nebo je `gorib' srenir lokera ei `non-culture'er
>prishthoposhokota korey na ?
Amar to tai mone hoi. Kolkata'r kato percentage Suman shone ar kato
percentage Kumar Shanu? Aha, 'Ek laDki'ko dekha to aisa laga ...''te
Shanubabu fatiyechhilen puro! Noi?
>Arnab.
Arnab Gupta
Apratim Sarkar wrote:
>>>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>>>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>>>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
>>
>>Aykta udahoron paoa jaabe ei `non-culture'-er ?
>
> Suman'r gaan?
>
Achha `non-culture'er bangla ki `oposhongoshkriti' naki
`o-shongoshkriti'(sheta ki ?) ? Ei kothatar mane niye ami ektu chintito.
Tumi etakey kibhabey nao Apratim ?
> [Proshno, ja age Sambit'ke korechhilum.
>
> Grade, in a scale of 1-10, Suman vs. R. D. Barman as a composer and
> Suman vs. Kishore Kumar as a singer.]
R. D. Barman onek uNuchu byapar amar kachhe. Composer hishebe Suman-ke
amar khub uNchudorer kichhu mone hoi na. Shuruta besh bhalo chhilo,
shondeho nei, porerdiker shurguli aykgheyemi doshey dushto.
Gayok hishebe KK-er shonge tulona kibhabey korbo thik janina, dujoner
`field' boddo alada rokom. Aykta kotha oboshyo boltey paari - dujoner
Rabindrashongeet-i amar shubidhar laage na. Tobe onyanyo ja shunechhi
tar thheke KK-ke onek beshi `verstile' mone hoi.
..[deleted]..
>>Achha ei `elite' kara ? Uporer lekha porley mone hoi `poishaola' sreni|
>>Taholey ki eta dhorey nebo je `gorib' srenir lokera ei `non-culture'er
>>prishthoposhokota korey na ?
>
> Amar to tai mone hoi. Kolkata'r kato percentage Suman shone ar kato
> percentage Kumar Shanu? Aha, 'Ek laDki'ko dekha to aisa laga ...''te
> Shanubabu fatiyechhilen puro! Noi?
Oi gaan-ta ektu `nyaka nyaka' laage na ? Amar oi chhobir onyo gaanta
(kuchh na kaho) aro bhalo laage. Sheta Shanu mondo gai ni.
Arnab.
Apratim Sarkar
Anonymous User <nob...@rutgers.edu> writes:
Tumi nabo nabo roop'e esho praan'e ... e bhek abar keno!?
>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>
>>>>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>
>>>>>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>>>>
>>>>> Personal preference.
>>>
>>>> Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
>>>> preference'!?
>>>
>>> Ami to bhai, patta-na-deowa sommondhe kichhu bolini,
>>> patta na debar karon-ta-ke contest korchhilum!
>>
>> Keno, personal preference!
>
>
> Apratim tomar guliye jachchhe. Patta debe ki na sheta
> "personal preference", IMO. Dile (ba na dile) ki karone
> debe (ba na debe) sheta-o "personal preference".
Eddur bojha gelo.
> Kintu
> karon-ta "personal prerference" hote paare na, IMO,
Keno?
> jodi-o
> karon-er prekkhite tomar patta debar decision-ta hote paare.
>
> SaDe barota-r telephone- ke oto patta dio na, "personal
> preference" chalao.
Bujhlum na.
> Sambit
Anonymous User
>>>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>
>>>>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>>>
>>>> Personal preference.
>>
>>> Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
>>> preference'!?
>>
>> Ami to bhai, patta-na-deowa sommondhe kichhu bolini,
>> patta na debar karon-ta-ke contest korchhilum!
>
> Keno, personal preference!
Apratim tomar guliye jachchhe. Patta debe ki na sheta
"personal preference", IMO. Dile (ba na dile) ki karone
debe (ba na debe) sheta-o "personal preference". Kintu
karon-ta "personal prerference" hote paare na, IMO, jodi-o
karon-er prekkhite tomar patta debar decision-ta hote paare.
SaDe barota-r telephone- ke oto patta dio na, "personal
preference" chalao.
Sambit
Anonymous User
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>
>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>
>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>
>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kano?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tai?
>>>>
>>>>> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
>>>>
>>>> O.
>>
>>> Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
>>
>> O, tai?
>
> Je kono ekta dilei, jodiyo, ekhane cholto. Duto ektu beshi beshi > mone hochche.
Naki?
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
GUP...@er6.eng.ohio-state.edu (Arnab Gupta) writes:
>Apratim Sarkar wrote:
>
>>>>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>>>>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>>>>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
>>>
>>>Aykta udahoron paoa jaabe ei `non-culture'-er ?
>>
>> Suman'r gaan?
>
>Achha `non-culture'er bangla ki `oposhongoshkriti' naki
>`o-shongoshkriti'(sheta ki ?) ? Ei kothatar mane niye ami ektu chintito.
>Tumi etakey kibhabey nao Apratim ?
Gombhir bhabe. DARi chumrote chumrote. Khub bhabchhi emon ekta
bhab kore.
>> Amar to tai mone hoi. Kolkata'r kato percentage Suman shone ar kato
>> percentage Kumar Shanu? Aha, 'Ek laDki'ko dekha to aisa laga ...''te
>> Shanubabu fatiyechhilen puro! Noi?
>
>Oi gaan-ta ektu `nyaka nyaka' laage na ? Amar oi chhobir onyo gaanta
>(kuchh na kaho) aro bhalo laage. Sheta Shanu mondo gai ni.
HNya 'Kuchh na kaho' was very good too. Are ami Hindi bujhina,
cinema'ta'o dekhini, 'nyaka nyaka''r byapare tai no comment.
Kintu gaan'ta amar besh bhaloi legechhilo.
>Arnab.
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>Anonymous User <nob...@rutgers.edu> writes:
>
> Tumi nabo nabo roop'e esho praan'e ... e bhek abar keno!?
Netscape diye news poDchhi o likhchhi. Bhebechhilum
nijer naam-e config. korbo na. Koriye chhaDle!!
>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>
>>>>>>>2. Tomar mate, shabar'i ki Sunil'ke patta deowa uchit? [yes/no]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.b. Na hole, keno na?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personal preference.
>>>>
>>>>> Eki mairi! Naeem'r shange eto ashfalon-bishfolon'r par seshe 'personal
>>>>> preference'!?
>>>>
>>>> Ami to bhai, patta-na-deowa sommondhe kichhu bolini,
>>>> patta na debar karon-ta-ke contest korchhilum!
>>>
>>> Keno, personal preference!
>>
>>
>> Apratim tomar guliye jachchhe. Patta debe ki na sheta
>> "personal preference", IMO. Dile (ba na dile) ki karone
>> debe (ba na debe) sheta-o "personal preference".
>
> Eddur bojha gelo.
>
>> Kintu
>> karon-ta "personal prerference" hote paare na, IMO,
>
> Keno?
Taar karon, sheta hoy ghotona aar noyto ghotona-r
consequence.
Orthaat tumi jodi bolo, tribhuj-er tinti kon-er shomoshti
180 degree-r kom hole tumi Sunil-ke patta debena - sheta
"personal preference" sheta niye torko chole na, IMO.
Kintu tumi jodi bolo je tumi Sunil-ke patta dao na _karon_
tribhuj-er tin kon-er shomoshti 180 degree-r kom, tahole
oi karon-ta (tribhuj-er tin kon-er shomoshti 180 degree-r
kom)-ke "personal preference" bole katano jayna, ota-ke
contest kora jay.
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
Anonymous User <nob...@rutgers.edu> writes:
>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>
>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>
>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>
>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Kano?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tai?
>>>>>
>>>>>> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
>>>>>
>>>>> O.
>>>
>>>> Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
>>>
>>> O, tai?
>>
>> Je kono ekta dilei, jodiyo, ekhane cholto. Duto ektu beshi beshi > mone hochche.
>
> Naki?
O ebang tai'r usage'ta shaRogaro na korei notun shabdo shuru kara'ta
ki wise holo? Step at a time ...
> Sambit
Sambit Basu
asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>Anonymous User <nob...@rutgers.edu> writes:
>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
>>
>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
>>>>>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Sunil Ganguly sommondhe Naeem Mohaiemen likhechhen:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >Amra tho Shunil ke pattha-i dei na...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kano?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Baje lekhe thai.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tai?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'O.' kintu ekhane aro suprojukto hoto Sambit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> O.
>>>>
>>>>> Ekhetre, jodiyo, 'Tai?''i aro suprojukto hoto. IMHO.
>>>>
>>>> O, tai?
>>>
>>> Je kono ekta dilei, jodiyo, ekhane cholto. Duto ektu beshi beshi > mone hochche.
>>
>> Naki?
>
> O ebang tai'r usage'ta shaRogaro na korei notun shabdo shuru
> kara'ta ki wise holo? Step at a time ...
Noy? Tai?
Sambit
sayan bhattacharyya
Mahmud Husain <mhu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I do agree, however, that a non-culture with no local roots has to be combated since
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>we may not have the benefit of hindsight a hundred years hence.
Yes, the "no local roots" is the most crucial issue about the non-culture.
The 19th century Bengal renaissance that you mention, did have local roots.
The nullity of the non-culture consists of its rootlessness and resulting
vacuity.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>Ankur Saha wrote:
>
.. deleted ...
>Also shopkeeper is bangali, he knows I am a bangal, ohtocho jor korei
>amake hindi bollo..
eta ektu baRabaRi hoye gelo na ki? dokandar aapni banglai jeneo hoito English
bolte paare, kintu hindi!! naaah.
Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
>
>>>What I lamented was not the diffusion of cultural diversity
>>>or heterogeneity (which is always welcome) but homogenization of a bland
>>>non-culture, which is what the elites are professing more and more. Now
>>
>>Aykta udahoron paoa jaabe ei `non-culture'-er ?
>
> Suman'r gaan?
>
>
> Grade, in a scale of 1-10, Suman vs. R. D. Barman as a composer and
> Suman vs. Kishore Kumar as a singer.]
>
.. deleted ...
Suman'r gaan-er against-e complaint ta thik bujhlam na. gaan nanan dharoner
hoi, ebong jodio ami Indian classical music-er bhakto, tabuo anyo gaan'r form
gulo-ke uRiye dewar kono jukti dekhi na.
R.D. Barman ebong Kishore Kumar nomoshyo byakti chhilen, taNder shomoye. Suman
taar nijer shomoye ja contribute korechhe, bangla or bangalir culture-e
(gaan-e), setao hela-fela korbar moto noi. duto du-rakomer gaan, ebong ei
apples and oranges comparison arthoheen.
Suman-er gaan-er katha/baktobyo joralo (irrespective of whether I agree with
it, or not) ebong su-poribeshito. seta bangla gaan'r jagote welcome change
(given the low quality stuff that filled most of the 80's). He has managed to
create a new form of music in Bengali, which, I thought, you would welcome,
irrespective of whether you like it or not -- its a sign of life, new life in
Bengali music. Kobi o gayok er successful combination-ta anek din dhore
dhamachapa porechhilo, Bangla gaan-er jagote. Suman seta abar firiye eneche
(taar kobita ba composition-er quality niye jotoi bitorko thak na keno).
Instead, your comments read like those made by the "tarkoranto" and
"bidyabageesh" moshais, when Michael Madhusudan presented his amitrakshar
chhando to Bengalis.
> Apratim.
>
>
>
>--
.. deleted ...
Debashis.
Sambit Basu
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes about Suman:
[...]
>He has managed to
>create a new form of music in Bengali,
[...]
What is this new form and how is it new?
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
Apratim Sarkar
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>Suman'r gaan-er against-e complaint ta thik bujhlam na.
Kono complaint nei, amar bhalo lage na tai bolchhilam.
>gaan nanan dharoner
>hoi, ebong jodio ami Indian classical music-er bhakto, tabuo anyo gaan'r form
>gulo-ke uRiye dewar kono jukti dekhi na.
Ki context'e eti bolchhen (jehetu amar post'r followup korlen)?
>R.D. Barman ebong Kishore Kumar nomoshyo byakti chhilen, taNder shomoye.
ONra chirojeebi, IMHO.
>Suman
>taar nijer shomoye ja contribute korechhe, bangla or bangalir culture-e
>(gaan-e), setao hela-fela korbar moto noi.
Eta amio jorgola'i boli! Progotisheelota'r guise'e oNacha (IMHO)
gaan niye byabsha ki kore korte hoi, Bangali sheta kichhutei
dhorte parchhilo na.
>duto du-rakomer gaan, ebong ei
>apples and oranges comparison arthoheen.
Amar to orange juice apple juice'r theke bhalo lage. Apnar?
Dekhun, ami ekbaro bolchhi na absolute scale'e Suman-RD-KK'r
comparative bichar shambhab, kintu subjective personal scale'e,
relatively speaking, differring bhalo laga thakte pare na ki?
Sheti'i jante cheyechhilam lokjon'r theke.
>Suman-er gaan-er katha/baktobyo joralo (irrespective of whether I agree with
>it, or not) ebong su-poribeshito.
Katha, weak, IMHO. Chhanda-mil'r haat temon subidh'r noi bhadrolok'r.
Content to chheRei dilam. Shuru korechhilen bhalo, arithmetic series
niye. Kintu calculus to durer katha, GP'teo pNouchhote parlen na.
Meghnad Shaha, Satyen Bose'r Bangladesh'ke shudhu AP diye kaddin
bholano jabe?
Jokes aside, Suman age chinebadam'r moto bishushko batas'e nishwash
nite sikhun, tarpar tar lyric'r "jor" niye alochana'i basha jabe.
Proshongata, Shatti Tara'r Timir' bayesh'e Suman'r theke baRo'i,
bodhhai.
Ar socio-political consciousness'r byapar ele, amar paRa/shona shab
theke bhalo socio-political lyric'guli least overtly alludes to
socio-political content. Dhorun 'Where did you go my blue-eyed son'.
Subtlety'r ekta gurttwo achhe. All IMHO.
>seta bangla gaan'r jagote welcome change
>(given the low quality stuff that filled most of the 80's).
Arthat bNashbon'e sheyalraja? Eta abashyo Suman'r defence'e best jukti.
>He has managed to
>create a new form of music in Bengali, which, I thought, you would welcome,
>irrespective of whether you like it or not -- its a sign of life, new life in
>Bengali music.
E'i notun form'ti ki? Udaharan dile match karar chesta korbo.
>Kobi o gayok er successful combination-ta anek din dhore
>dhamachapa porechhilo, Bangla gaan-er jagote. Suman seta abar firiye eneche
>(taar kobita ba composition-er quality niye jotoi bitorko thak na keno).
Yes, finally amra pet topic'e pNouchhe gechi. Amar proshno hochchhe,
in absolute seriousness, kobi o gayok'r combination ki etoi joruri je
ta
mediocre vocal quality
mediocre composition
weak lyric
e'i combination'keo pate deowa'r upajukto kore tole?
>Instead, your comments read like those made by the "tarkoranto" and
>"bidyabageesh" moshais, when Michael Madhusudan presented his amitrakshar
>chhando to Bengalis.
Original creation'r byapare jakhan elam, takhan ki
create korechhe Suman, other than an impression of (meki, IMHO)
progotisheelota?
>Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Mahmud Husain <mhu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>bhat...@skynet.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) wrote:
>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>>
.. deleted ...
>>
>
>I haven't lived in Dhaka for a while, curious if the same holds true for the upper
>classes there.
>The ethnic makeup of the place is also important, does it have to do with the fact
>that the financial and cultural elite of Calcutta is largely non-bengali and
>all-indian and Calcutta has ceased to be a bengali city!
This, I resent. While it is true that large business in Calcutta is very
dominated by non-Bengalis, Calcutta is, still, a very very Bengali city.
I'm troubled by the fact that Bangladeshis often make this rather stupid
statement, that Calcutta is now a "Hindi" city. I can only imagine some sort of
an inferiority complex, or ulterior motive, or both, at play, behind the
repetition of such a vicious lie -- especially when that lie is repeated,
by-and-large, by people from BD. Propaganda like this will certainly not make
Calcutta anything different --- contrary to popular belief, a lie repeated a
1000 times, is still a lie --- and will not make BD or any part of BD like
Dhaka, anything different either.
As is being discussed in another thread, why is there a chasm between WB and
BD? Well, this kind of attitude problem on the part of many educated BDis,
i.e., "we are the Bengalis" and "WB people are really serfs of Hindusthan",
is also a major factor (notwithstanding the many other factors that have
already been discussed). We are all Bengalis, and just as many Bengalis from
WB have a "nasika rog", many (if not most) of the educated Bengalis from BD
also have a reverse "nasika rog".
prabad bale, ek hate tali baje na. ekhetre-o tai. naak ta jodi du-tarof-i
ektu nichu kore --- given that BD as a distinct political entity is a very
recent phenomenon --- to dui poksher-i bhalo hoi tate.
>btw, diversity has to be celebrated and not resisted, if anything bengali language
>and culture will be enriched in the long run by contributions from various
>ethnicities that inhabit Calcutta.
This, I agree with completely. I sincerely do not believe Calcutta will become
a "Hindi" city, ever. Calcutta, and Bengal (at least WB) will absorb and
assimilate from the rest of India, and from the rest of the world, and that
will only enrich the Bengali culture.
One only has to look at Bauls to see the impact of South Indian music style on
Bengal's folk music, or to look at our favorite vegetable (alu!!) to see the
impact of European invasion on our cuisine. However, Bauls do not sing Carnatic
style, and we do not make mashed potatoes the European way. We do our things
the Bengali style, having absorbed both of the outside influences.
>
>Mahmud Husain.
>
Debashis.
Sambit Basu
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
>>Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes about Suman:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>>He has managed to
>>>create a new form of music in Bengali,
>>
>>[...]
>>
>> What is this new form and how is it new?
>The concept of ballads in Bengali.
Counter-example:
1. "Krishnakali ami taare-i boli" - Rabindranath
2. "KhNacha-r paakhi chhilo" - Rabindranath
3. "Duur noy beshi duur oi" - Salil Chowdhury
4. "Shono kono akdin" - Salil Chowdhury
...
>Also occassionally, a nice mix of Indian classical ideas with western music
>-- tin taler gaan.
Is this new?? Start form Rabindranath, Dwijendralal, Himangshu
Datta, Dilipkuma Ray, Salil Chowdhury, Nachiketa GHosh...
nothing is new here Debashisbabu.
Sambit
Debashis Bhattacharya
sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
>Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes about Suman:
>
>[...]
>
>>He has managed to
>>create a new form of music in Bengali,
>
>[...]
>
> What is this new form and how is it new?
>
>
The concept of ballads in Bengali. It may be too close to western style, but
its new, and the language and content is very much Bengali.
Also occassionally, a nice mix of Indian classical ideas with western music
-- tin taler gaan.
These are nice experiments, IMHO, and I hope others try out such experiment
more and more. Eventually, I'm sure something that is truly superb, with
significant Indian traditional content, but new and different, will emerge.
>
> Sambit
Debashis.
Mahmud Husain
Thank you Mr.Bhattacharya for dignifying my rather thoughtless and immature post
with such edifying appelations as stupid, ulteriorly motivated, laden with
inferiority complex etc.etc.,not to speak of the vicious lies and frank propaganda.
As always, the grave import of such symbolically powerful language is never lost on
the ignorant souls inhabiting the swamps of lower Bengal.:)
The point that I tried to make in the original post, albeit unsuccessfully judjing
by the strong response elicited, is that Calcutta is and has been for quite a while
now, an all-Indian metropolis rather than a purely Bengali city and that certainly
beehoves well for both Calcutta and it's inhabitants since they can derive enormous
benefit from the social and cultural dynamism such diversity most obviosly offers. I
myself would have been priviliged to have lived in such a place rather than the
ethnically and culturally homogeneous cities that abound in the rest of Bengal.
As for the 'reverse nasika rog' supposedly displayed by a large majority of
bangladeshis, I can assure you that I am yet to be brought down by such an
affliction; quite the contrary, I am of the opinion that the epicenter of Bengali
culture and civilization is yet to move east of the Ganges though such a possibility
cannot be discounted in the near future. For the present we are still riding the
last crests of the cultural renewal of the nineteenth century that made Calcutta the
great city that it is in terms of Bengali cultural achievement.
Hope this clears up things a bit since I was obviously misunderstood in the general
context of my contentions. And another day, another night may be too late for me
since I am on such a short leash of net life!!!
Thanks once again and good day.
>>
>
>
>
>Debashis.
>
Mahmud Husain.
Arman Hossain
@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <32626F...@hbo.com>
Distribution:
Shaala, faizlaamieer zaigaa paoona. Tor gushti killai! Doi numberi
khobor dibi teile choona lagake takku kaar dungaa. Stupid, Fajil,
Gadha, jocchor, paaji, Phott. Naeem
Mohaiemen (naeem.m...@hbo.com) wrote: > Mahmud Husain wrote:
> >
> > Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
> > >>Taslima fiasco & Sunil's role
> > >
> > >>>Sambit Basu wrote:
> > >>>E golpo-ta ki? (What's the story?)
> > >
> > >SUNIL & TASLIMA: A TALE OF 2 CITIES
> > >
> > [deleted to enhance understanding]
> >
> > Aei Naeem chaoyal-ta borDo bipake falaya dae...aare baap tomar ki kaam babujan aar
> > didimoshai-go loge takko korar! Bangal chaoyal, u(n)hara hoilen giya amago bap dada
> > choiddo-gusthir shikkhok...amago aaji jayi dakho shob khaniktai-e ta(n)go kirpa-ey.
> > Kadachit bhuliyo na jadu. Aalpo boyosh to, g(h)ar taera mi aakhono rakte-r majhe
> > uthal pathal kore.
> > Be-akkal, bet-tamij ta-re aapnara maaf koira diyen nijer kiripay:)
> >
> > Saarbo bangal-er pakkhey,
> > Mahmud Husain.
> Mone hoi successfully various threads [Taliban, Sunil, Anandabazar, etc]
> er maddhyome successfully antagonized ALL possible factions in the
> world.
> AT this point, factions jaderke khepiechei include:
> leftist
> rightist
> calcutta
> dhaka
> shokol dhormio gothro
> shokol lingo [purush, sthri, klib--meaning table/chair, etc]
> shokol generation
> shokol educational discipline
> Mone hoi ey season e elections ar nambo na.. :-)
> Teknaf theke Thethulia
> Shobai bole... Naeemke pita
Anindya Ghoshal
Naeem Babu barite boshe HBO-te Sir Oracle/Undefeated Government ar Lord Eden/
gandalf-er Shodder-er modye fencing lorai deckchen...
Apratim Sarkar (asa...@us.oracle.com) wrote:
: Sambit Basu <sam...@eden.rutgers.edu> writes:
: >asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
: >
: >>Anonymous User <nob...@rutgers.edu> writes:
: >
: >>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) wrote:
: >>>
: >>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
: >
: >>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
: >>>>>
: >>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
: >
: >>>>>>>asa...@us.oracle.com (Apratim Sarkar) writes:
: >>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) writes:
: >
: >>>>>>>>>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> writes:
: >>>>>>>>>
: >>>>>>>>>>Sambit Basu wrote:
: >
rgds,
Anindo
--
email address: agho...@eng2.uconn.edu
Life is just a procrastination for death
Debashis Bhattacharya
sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
>Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>
>>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
.. deleted ...
>>> What is this new form and how is it new?
>
>>The concept of ballads in Bengali.
>
>
> Counter-example:
>
> 1. "Krishnakali ami taare-i boli" - Rabindranath
> 2. "KhNacha-r paakhi chhilo" - Rabindranath
> 3. "Duur noy beshi duur oi" - Salil Chowdhury
> 4. "Shono kono akdin" - Salil Chowdhury
Rabindranath ebong Salil Choudhury were visionaries. However, the focus of
their respective works was not ballads. They did occassionally create a few
(se to baisnab padabali-r o anek kichhukei ballad bole deoa jai).
akaron bitorker modhye na giye-o, IMHO, Suman has focussed the attention
much more (especially in recent days, since padabali, after all, is getting to
be old now) on this form of music --- sort of made it mainstream instead of
an outlier. taar mane ei kakhonoi noi je Suman-er aage keu ei prochesta kore
ni;
taar mane ei je er aage (esp. in recent times) eto manojog diye ei prochesta
keu kore ni, recent times-e.
>
> ...
>
>
>>Also occassionally, a nice mix of Indian classical ideas with western music
>>-- tin taler gaan.
>
> Is this new?? Start form Rabindranath, Dwijendralal, Himangshu
> Datta, Dilipkuma Ray, Salil Chowdhury, Nachiketa GHosh...
> nothing is new here Debashisbabu.
Again, in a very broad sense, of course not. In a more specific sense, it is
very new --- since none of the above-mentioned stalwarts created the specific
mix that Suman has created.
The issue is that all of the above-mentioned stalwarts are now dead (do not
know about Nachiketa Ghosh, but he is certainly dead figuratively). Suman
is experimenting, now, and hopefully, inspiring others to experiment too. That
is new --- since all of the above-mentioned stalwarts (while they created
great music) inspired a very "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane" kind of copy. That
makes me think there is something new in Suman's experiments, which are having
a different impact.
>
>
>
>
> Sambit
Debashis.
Sambit Basu
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
>.. deleted ...
>>>> What is this new form and how is it new?
>>
>>>The concept of ballads in Bengali.
>>
>>
>> Counter-example:
>>
>> 1. "Krishnakali ami taare-i boli" - Rabindranath
>> 2. "KhNacha-r paakhi chhilo" - Rabindranath
>> 3. "Duur noy beshi duur oi" - Salil Chowdhury
>> 4. "Shono kono akdin" - Salil Chowdhury
>Rabindranath ebong Salil Choudhury were visionaries. However, the focus of
>their respective works was not ballads.
"respective works" maane amar uddhrito gaan-er kotha
bolchhen to?
Online dictionary bolchhe:
-----
Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th Ed., Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press
/ballad/ <<"b&l@d>> n.
1. a poem or song narrating a popular story.
2. a slow sentimental or romantic song.
-----
Apni Ballad maane ki er baire onno kono dhoroner
gaan-er kotha bolchhen?
>They did occassionally create a few
>(se to baisnab padabali-r o anek kichhukei ballad bole deoa jai).
Actually, ballad-er aaro boDo akta heritage bodhoy aachhe
amader folk-e.
>akaron bitorker modhye na giye-o, IMHO, Suman has focussed the attention
>much more (especially in recent days, since padabali, after all, is getting to
>be old now) on this form of music --- sort of made it mainstream instead of
>an outlier. taar mane ei kakhonoi noi je Suman-er aage keu ei prochesta kore
>ni;
>taar mane ei je er aage (esp. in recent times) eto manojog diye ei prochesta
>keu kore ni, recent times-e.
Apni eta-ke "new" bolechhilen. Aar outlier bolte apni
ki bolchhen? RT, SC ei gaangulo likhte chaanni, haat
phoshke beriye gyachhe.
"akaron bitorker modhye na jaowa" maane ki aager kaaj
upekkha kore sheshob kaaj-er krititto/daybhaag Suman-ke
attribute kora?
>>>Also occassionally, a nice mix of Indian classical ideas with western music
>>>-- tin taler gaan.
>>
>> Is this new?? Start form Rabindranath, Dwijendralal, Himangshu
>> Datta, Dilipkuma Ray, Salil Chowdhury, Nachiketa GHosh...
>> nothing is new here Debashisbabu.
>Again, in a very broad sense, of course not. In a more specific sense, it is
>very new --- since none of the above-mentioned stalwarts created the specific
>mix that Suman has created.
Apni aar ektu specifically gaan-faan-er udahoron diye
bujhiye deben please? Ami jaante otyonto utsaahi. Specific
mix maane jodi apni bolen specific gaan-er specific
shur, ta'le oboshyo alada kotha.
>is new --- since all of the above-mentioned stalwarts (while they created
>great music) inspired a very "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane" kind of copy.
Udahoron Debashisbabu? Copy-r. "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane"
to subjective. Apni hunkaar aar gorjon kore jotokhushi
pourush-obhishikto "gaan" korun, kintu "copy"-r
udahoron-ta-te subjectivity-r scope kom.
>That
>makes me think there is something new in Suman's experiments, which are having
>a different impact.
Shudhu apni bhable-i to aar sheta "new" hoye jaabena
Debashisbabu. Hole oboshyo mondo hoto na!!
Sambit
Apratim Sarkar
bhat...@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (sayan bhattacharyya) writes:
>I am interested in knowing Apratim's own answers to the questions as
>well. I request him to submit his own answers, as I am curious about
>his own stand on the issue.
Bore koro na Sayan.
>-Sayan.
Debashis Bhattacharya
.. deleted ...
>>Rabindranath ebong Salil Choudhury were visionaries. However, the focus of
>>their respective works was not ballads.
>
> "respective works" maane amar uddhrito gaan-er kotha
> bolchhen to?
na, respective works maane tNader jibone tNara ja kichhu srishti korechhen,
taar somosti-r katha bolchhi.
Sambit, tumi akaron katha baRachho (tumi bolchhi, karon tumi Sky-er bhai,
ebong sei sutre amar-o bhai-sthanio). tumi nijeo jano je RT by SC-r main
focus ballads chhilo na.
>
> Online dictionary bolchhe:
>-----
>Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th Ed., Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press
>
>/ballad/ <<"b&l@d>> n.
>1. a poem or song narrating a popular story.
>2. a slow sentimental or romantic song.
>-----
>
> Apni Ballad maane ki er baire onno kono dhoroner
> gaan-er kotha bolchhen?
ajatha dictionary dekhar kono proyojon dekhi na (barong dictionary-te
"heritage" er ki definition diyechhe, jodi Apratim ke ektu bole dao, to amar
ekta upokar hoi -- samoi bNache).
tomar uddhrito gaan gulo nishcoi ballads (antoto amar kachhe), kintu amar
kachhe RT "krishokoli"-r jonyo-i mane rakhar moto non. tNar aaro anek kaaj
(gaan, kobita, galpo, ebong probondho) achhe, jegulo amake anek govir bhabe
naRa dei. amar dharona beshir bhag bangali-i ekotha swikar korben je RT-r kaaje
ballads-er bhumika relatively minor.
>
>
>>They did occassionally create a few
>>(se to baisnab padabali-r o anek kichhukei ballad bole deoa jai).
>
> Actually, ballad-er aaro boDo akta heritage bodhoy aachhe
> amader folk-e.
nischoi acche, kintu segulo-r modhye kono memorable kono notun development
recent times-e (goto 50 years-er modhye) hoi ni.
ek-i jinisher chorbito charban karar badole Suman notun style-e ballads
poribeshon korechhe -- se style ta jotoi Europe theke dhaar kara hok na keno.
>
>
>>akaron bitorker modhye na giye-o, IMHO, Suman has focussed the attention
>>much more (especially in recent days, since padabali, after all, is getting to
>>be old now) on this form of music --- sort of made it mainstream instead of
>>an outlier. taar mane ei kakhonoi noi je Suman-er aage keu ei prochesta kore
>>ni;
>>taar mane ei je er aage (esp. in recent times) eto manojog diye ei prochesta
>>keu kore ni, recent times-e.
>
> Apni eta-ke "new" bolechhilen. Aar outlier bolte apni
> ki bolchhen? RT, SC ei gaangulo likhte chaanni, haat
> phoshke beriye gyachhe.
ei montobyer uttor dewa nisproyojon mone kori. "new" sambondhe RT-r shesher
kobita-i je mantobyo achhe, seta etoi jathajatho (ei particular context-e), je
aapnake shesher kobitar dikei refer korlam.
aar RT, SC gaangulo nitanto anichchhai likhechhilen, emon katha aami kothao
bolechhi emon to mone paRe na. tabe, tNara je jiboner beshirbhag kaaj "ballads"
hishebe poribeshon koren ni, e-katha to bole bujhiye dite hoi na. khub sahoj,
sanchaita are geetobitan khule ektu poRlei proman hoye jai (RT). SC-r
collection ta to anek chhoto, seta screen kara aaro sahoj.
>
> "akaron bitorker modhye na jaowa" maane ki aager kaaj
> upekkha kore sheshob kaaj-er krititto/daybhaag Suman-ke
> attribute kora?
upekkha kara amar swabhab noi, korio ni. tumi kaan shunte dhan shune (bujhe)
michhei katha baRachho.
>
>
>>>>Also occassionally, a nice mix of Indian classical ideas with western music
>>>>-- tin taler gaan.
>>>
>>> Is this new?? Start form Rabindranath, Dwijendralal, Himangshu
>>> Datta, Dilipkuma Ray, Salil Chowdhury, Nachiketa GHosh...
>>> nothing is new here Debashisbabu.
>
>>Again, in a very broad sense, of course not. In a more specific sense, it is
>>very new --- since none of the above-mentioned stalwarts created the specific
>>mix that Suman has created.
>
> Apni aar ektu specifically gaan-faan-er udahoron diye
> bujhiye deben please? Ami jaante otyonto utsaahi. Specific
> mix maane jodi apni bolen specific gaan-er specific
> shur, ta'le oboshyo alada kotha.
again, Sambit, akaron tarko karar kono maane dekhi na. dwijendrolal did (in his
day) what Suman is doing today. ageo bolechhi, je amar to ei-sab stalwarts der
chhoto karar kono uddeshyo nei. what surprises me is that you are dismissing
Suman in the same spirit that Bengalis dismissed Michael, pre-Nobel RT, etc.
That is not to say that Suman deserves a nobel prize, nor is that to say that
he is the same grade as RT.
That is to say that he has made a tangible, "new" contribution to Bengali
music, and that we should give credit where credit is due. credit na deoa ta
bangali-der ekta rog, ebong ekhetreo taar kono byatikrom dekhchhi na.
>
>
>>is new --- since all of the above-mentioned stalwarts (while they created
>>great music) inspired a very "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane" kind of copy.
>
> Udahoron Debashisbabu? Copy-r. "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane"
> to subjective. Apni hunkaar aar gorjon kore jotokhushi
> pourush-obhishikto "gaan" korun, kintu "copy"-r
> udahoron-ta-te subjectivity-r scope kom.
>
ei dhorun mid-1970's onwards, kalikata-k (akashbani) te bela deRta-duto nagad
je sab program hoto, kichhu recordings aniye nin (AIR dutifully sab tape korto
bolei jaani) -- udaharoner abhab thakbe na. RT, Dwijendrolal, SC, etc.-der
"honukaran"-er ei adbhut prochesta sei boyesheo kharap lagto, ekhono kharap
lagbe bolei biswas. mid-1970's onwards bolchhi, karon taar age "gaan" ba
"gaaner mrityu" distinguish karar moto boyes hoi ni; tai ager katha bolte
paarbo na.
>>That
>>makes me think there is something new in Suman's experiments, which are having
>>a different impact.
>
>
> Shudhu apni bhable-i to aar sheta "new" hoye jaabena
> Debashisbabu. Hole oboshyo mondo hoto na!!
>
shudhu tumi abogna ebong byango korle-o kaaj ta akaaj hoye jabe na. tomar
pachhondo na hoi, besh, balo tomar pachhondo noi. tai bole agrajjho koro na --
ota baRo kharap swabhab, especially bangali-der (aar ekta thread-e nasika
rog-er galpo hochhe na, etao tai).
>
>
> Sambit
Debashis.
Sambit Basu
agho...@eng2.uconn.edu (Anindya Ghoshal) writes:
>Naeem Babu barite boshe HBO-te Sir Oracle/Undefeated Government ar Lord Eden/
>gandalf-er Shodder-er modye fencing lorai deckchen...
Apni ektu molom lagaaben?
Sambit
Sambit Basu
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> writes:
>sam...@eden.rutgers.edu (Sambit Basu) wrote:
>.. deleted ...
>Sambit, tumi akaron katha baRachho (tumi bolchhi, karon tumi Sky-er bhai,
>ebong sei sutre amar-o bhai-sthanio).
Jah, eshob bole torko-ta chotiye dilen!!
Gotakoyek kotha bole thread theke biday niy.
>what surprises me is that you are dismissing
>Suman in the same spirit that Bengalis dismissed Michael, pre-Nobel RT, etc.
Dismiss?? When did I do that? Ami Suman-er musical creativity-r
gunomugdho. Kintu ta bole uni je jinish-ta korenni sheta-r
krititto onar ghaaDe chapano-r cheshta-ta-ke mene nite hobe?
>That is to say that he has made a tangible, "new" contribution to Bengali
>music, and that we should give credit where credit is due. credit na deoa ta
>bangali-der ekta rog, ebong ekhetreo taar kono byatikrom dekhchhi na.
Ta'le, bolte badhyo hochchhi, bhul dekhchhen. Apni Suman-ke
Suman-er oprapyo credit dichchhilen bole ektu protibaad
kore rakhlum.
>>>great music) inspired a very "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane" kind of copy.
>>
>> Udahoron Debashisbabu? Copy-r. "pyan-pyane, ghyan-ghyane"
>> to subjective. Apni hunkaar aar gorjon kore jotokhushi
>> pourush-obhishikto "gaan" korun, kintu "copy"-r
>> udahoron-ta-te subjectivity-r scope kom.
>>
>ei dhorun mid-1970's onwards, kalikata-k (akashbani) te bela deRta-duto nagad
>je sab program hoto, kichhu recordings aniye nin (AIR dutifully sab tape korto
>bolei jaani) -- udaharoner abhab thakbe na. RT, Dwijendrolal, SC, etc.-der
>"honukaran"-er ei adbhut prochesta sei boyesheo kharap lagto, ekhono kharap
>lagbe bolei biswas. mid-1970's onwards bolchhi, karon taar age "gaan" ba
>"gaaner mrityu" distinguish karar moto boyes hoi ni; tai ager katha bolte
>paarbo na.
Apni jokhon specific udahoron dite parenni, tokhon counter
example diye aar chhaya-r shonge kusti korlum na. Tobe
apnake Suman-er "gaanola" gaan-ti-r pashapashi Bob Dylan-er
"Tambourine Man" gaanti, ba Suman-er "Stobdhota-r gaan"-er
paashe Paul Simon-er "Sound of Silence" shune dekhte onurodh
kori.
>shudhu tumi abogna ebong byango korle-o kaaj ta akaaj hoye jabe na. tomar
>pachhondo na hoi, besh, balo tomar pachhondo noi. tai bole agrajjho koro na --
>ota baRo kharap swabhab, especially bangali-der (aar ekta thread-e nasika
>rog-er galpo hochhe na, etao tai).
Ograjhyo korle torko-ta kortum na. Anjan Datta-r gaan niye
torko hoyna jamon.
Sambit
Shubu Mukherjee
DB> Sambit, tumi akaron katha baRachho
Sambit-bhaya:
Mon-e hochhe tomar ebar biye korar shomoy hoy-e gechhe! Biyer por-e
okaron-e keno, karon thakleo kotha barab-e na!! :-)
-Shubu
PS:
Indrani-Srabani-Sharmila-Chaitali-Sutapa-etc-di/devi/thakurun/withnotitle-ra
chopetaghaat mart-e elen bol-e!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shubu Mukherjee University of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
Sharmila Mukherjee
Shubu Mukherjee wrote:
>
> DB> Sambit, tumi akaron katha baRachho
>
> Sambit-bhaya:
>
> Mon-e hochhe tomar ebar biye korar shomoy hoy-e gechhe! Biyer por-e
> okaron-e keno, karon thakleo kotha barab-e na!! :-)
>
> -Shubu
>
> PS:
>
> Indrani-Srabani-Sharmila-Chaitali-Sutapa-etc-di/devi/thakurun/withnotitle-ra
> chopetaghaat mart-e elen bol-e!
Bolo ki Shubu?? Borong tomar mukhe ful-chondon-roshogolla...
Sharmila