Separate But Equal? West Bengal & Bangladesh
Naeem Mohaiemen
>Pavel on DADAGIRI thread<
>>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
> 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye sahittey
> egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
Na.
Dadagiri is not my term, Ahmod Sofa's. And I don't agree with all HIS
implications.
I [only me] interpret it as a lip service to: One Bengal, one people,
one culture, we have to share to survive, etc, BUT when it comes to
brass tacks, it seems that we always make more of an effort.
A small example, and maybe it's not representative:
RITWIK GHATAK film festival happened.
His stories are all WB based except for TITASH.
I posted like mad to newsgroups. Called/cajoled/harrassed people to
every show.
There were many Bangladeshis and there were many from Calcutta at all
shows.
Yet, when we have MUKTHIR GAAN showing, does the entire Calcutta
community go nuts and try to bring dol-bol to it?
Yes there are many factors: RITWIK was high profile/lincoln
center-for-gods-sake,etc, while MUKTHI was all the way out in the Queens
boonies.
Yes, yes, yes.
But still something seems missing from YOUR side..
KENO: Why do many BDs read Shunil with such enthu, and yet Calcutta is
never agog to that degree w any of our writers?"
Why do we always go all out for Satyajit, Mrinal, but amader bhalo
director der keu tene hicher festival nithe hoi?
KENO: after so many years, DESH only just started printing pieces by
Humayun Ahmed 2+ years ago. Ethodin kothai chilen? [and HA isn't even
our best, but we'll start with pulp even]
KENO: Mrinal Sen filmed all over India but never in Bangladesh. And
when we, in the sudience in 94 in Dhaka asked him, why did you never
film here, his only response was a really disappointing "Amar passport
tho Indian, mela jhamela"
ICCHA THAKILE UPAI HOI
KENO: Dui Bangla r shommilitho attempt JUKTHAKKHOR, an excellent
enterprise I want it to succeeed, they printed a fairly weak, rambling
piece of mine-- I was very proud and faxed it around like a child_of_7.
KINTHU, keno keno eshob cheshta shobshomoy Calcutta theke. Keno kono
shomoy apnara chan na je Dhaka e rastha rastha e shobai Bangla bole,
JUJTHAKKHOR er jokhon financial difficulty hocchilo, thokhon ekbar Dhaka
e anar kotha bhable na?
KENO: Bare bare ami Oberlin College e ebong ekhon amar bhai, moha
enthusiasim nie Satyajit ray film festival, Mrinal Sen retro, itthyadi
korar cheshta kori, KINTHU koi apnara tho konodin GOLAPI EKHON TRAIN E,
SHURJO DIGHOL BARI, SHIMANA PERIE, SHOOTIR GHONTA, DOOMOR ER FOOL,
SHARENG BOU, etc dekhabar jonnyo moria hoe poren na?
KENO: WB er kritthi prothiti director er filmography amader tana
mukhostho, othocho amar Calutta friends [esp younger ones] cannot name
10 Bangladeshi films they have even seen?
Ami ki shudhu emotional nationalist, only-seeing-bad-ignoring-good, naki
er moddhye kichu ache?
APnader ki shei iccha-ta ache?
I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for people to write:
"Naeem you're full of ____ ! The following 100 examples are situations
where Calcutta Dhaka cultural exchange is equal, loving, respectful"
I want to be wrong on this.
This is not an attack on WB. It is an appeal to ask homestly if Two
Bengals will ever have an EQUAL dialogue of culture. Hya amader bohu
ajebaje lekhok ache. But shetai ki shob. naki aro ghotona ache
pechone.
Apnara hothi iccha kore oboggya korchen na..kinthu result tho ek-i
Shahajjo korun, amader shathe kaj korun, Bangla ke aro shokthishali
korun, kinthu amader nyajjo SHomman tio dien. Dhonnoyobad
--
An over-emotional diatribe from
Naeem Mohaiemen
HBO Interactive Media
Pavel
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
:> >Pavel on DADAGIRI thread<
:>
:> >>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
:>
:> > 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye
sahittey
:> > egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
:>
:> Na.
:>
:> Dadagiri is not my term, Ahmod Sofa's. And I don't agree with all
HIS
:> implications.
Most of the cases i agree with you, kintu torko kortey icchey hochchey
:> I [only me] interpret it as a lip service to: One Bengal, one people,
:> one culture, we have to share to survive, etc, BUT when it comes to
:> brass tacks, it seems that we always make more of an effort.
>
:> A small example, and maybe it's not representative:
>
:> RITWIK GHATAK film festival happened.
>
:> His stories are all WB based except for TITASH.
>
:> I posted like mad to newsgroups. Called/cajoled/harrassed people to
:> every show.
origin..
I obisshi eto cinema-pagol na.. :)
:> There were many Bangladeshis and there were many from Calcutta at all
:> shows.
They enjoyed .. if they did not , they were looser.. if they liked it
they won.. But if are seeing a movie by Mr. Zontu and if i cannot enjoy
u r lost.. So origin is not a matter..
Here the problem is they have been succeesful to attract people from
BD. We need to think about the ways to attract people from WB. As far
as I know Humayun Ahmed is very popular in WB. Because they had a
chance to see Dhaka-TV.
:> Yet, when we have MUKTHIR GAAN showing, does the entire Calcutta
:> community go nuts and try to bring dol-bol to it?
Yeah its our failure if we could not attract them.
:> Yes there are many factors: RITWIK was high profile/lincoln
:> center-for-gods-sake,etc, while MUKTHI was all the way out in the
Queens
:> boonies.
>
:> Yes, yes, yes.
Amder cinema je koto pichoney porhey achey ta kebol purosker prapto
movie guli dekhlei bola jay. Jay duekta valo movie hoy govt/people
donot even make them high profile... Amra hoyto sabnaz ar mousmier
nach-ee beshi valobasi.. durvagger kotha Indian bangla moviero Obostha
valo na...
:> But still something seems missing from YOUR side..
:>
:> KENO: Why do many BDs read Shunil with such enthu, and yet Calcutta
is
:> never agog to that degree w any of our writers?"
>
:> Why do we always go all out for Satyajit, Mrinal, but amader bhalo
:> director der keu tene hicher festival nithe hoi?
Amader kon valo producer ektar beshi valo movie korechen? Amader
bazarey valo movie keki tiktey dewa hochchey..
Surjodhighol barhi was not seen in movie-halls in Dahaka...Did get
tickets of Humayun Ahmed's movie?
:> KENO: after so many years, DESH only just started printing pieces by
:> Humayun Ahmed 2+ years ago. Ethodin kothai chilen? [and HA isn't
even
:> our best, but we'll start with pulp even]
Kintu kei ba oder Syed Samshul Hoque, Sawkat Osmaner num sonabey? Amra
nijerai jeno koto oder boi porhi...As far as i knew once Syed Shumsul
Hoque was kind of known in WB...
:> KENO: Mrinal Sen filmed all over India but never in Bangladesh. And
:> when we, in the sudience in 94 in Dhaka asked him, why did you never
:> film here, his only response was a really disappointing "Amar
passport
:> tho Indian, mela jhamela"
You expected from him, i did not...
:> ICCHA THAKILE UPAI HOI
>
:> KENO: Dui Bangla r shommilitho attempt JUKTHAKKHOR, an excellent
:> enterprise I want it to succeeed, they printed a fairly weak,
rambling
:> piece of mine-- I was very proud and faxed it around like a
child_of_7.
>
:> KINTHU, keno keno eshob cheshta shobshomoy Calcutta theke. Keno kono
:> shomoy apnara chan na je Dhaka e rastha rastha e shobai Bangla bole,
:> JUJTHAKKHOR er jokhon financial difficulty hocchilo, thokhon ekbar
Dhaka
:> e anar kotha bhable na?
>
:> KENO: Bare bare ami Oberlin College e ebong ekhon amar bhai, moha
:> enthusiasim nie Satyajit ray film festival, Mrinal Sen retro,
itthyadi
:> korar cheshta kori, KINTHU koi apnara tho konodin GOLAPI EKHON TRAIN
E,
:> SHURJO DIGHOL BARI, SHIMANA PERIE, SHOOTIR GHONTA, DOOMOR ER FOOL,
:> SHARENG BOU, etc dekhabar jonnyo moria hoe poren na?
Eta puropuri valo lagar bepar.. Ami johkon balak chilam tokhon
'sattajit',
'upendrakishore' porhtam.. tarpor 'humayun ahmed'.. tarpor ajey bajey
potrika 'bichitra' 'robbar' 'desh' esober uponnos porhtam.. amar kotha
hochchey jodi amader movie ora na dekhey er koron hoy amar thikmoto
publicity ditey parini noy amra regular valo movie banatey parchi na.
HAtey gonar biyerey amader valo movie nai. Ami jokhon deshey jabo,
takhon
kokhono natok dekhtey jetey parhi.. panpanani movier voye cinema halley
jabo na...
Tarcheye boli kothao kenu nai movie holey besh valo hoto. Keno valo valo
golpo niye movie hochchey na.. amader ki ploter akal porhecehy?
:> KENO: WB er kritthi prothiti director er filmography amader tana
:> mukhostho, othocho amar Calutta friends [esp younger ones] cannot
name
:> 10 Bangladeshi films they have even seen?
amader kritti porichito kara? Ekta ba duita film korechey jara? Tader
porichiti
hoyni karo kacheyi. Othoba
amjad hossain chashi nozrul.. They are way too behind from Sattajit
roy...
I donot expect them to compete.. But i can rely on guys who write
TV-natok
Humayun Ahmed, Muntasir mamun, Selim AL din, Mamumur Rashid, MomtazUddin
etc? I can recommend somone to see our 'moncho natok'...I mean you need
to be really good to get international market.. Or extremely commercial.
Beder meye jotsna got a market in WB...
:> Ami ki shudhu emotional nationalist, only-seeing-bad-ignoring-good,
naki
:> er moddhye kichu ache?
Sahitter ar nationality ki... Art r nationality ki? Can i say that 'i
wont read yeats because he was irish'?
Cholo tar cheye dheki amader ki achey? Achey khali ekjon shamsur rahman,
koyekjon kobi.. kichu nattokar ei?
:> APnader ki shei iccha-ta ache?
>
:> I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for people to write:
:> "Naeem you're full of ____ ! The following 100 examples are
situations
:> where Calcutta Dhaka cultural exchange is equal, loving, respectful"
Oh its not. I donot complain if they have good things i want to enjoy
those.
But our people see the bostapocha 'indian anustan' (i forgot the name
of a serial
BTV was relaying that very silly hindi TV program and it was popular in
BD).
We sometimes behave like whatever WB/IND has is better than us... its
silly..
So they may feel the other way...
:> I want to be wrong on this.
:>
:> This is not an attack on WB. It is an appeal to ask homestly if Two
:> Bengals will ever have an EQUAL dialogue of culture. Hya amader bohu
:> ajebaje lekhok ache. But shetai ki shob. naki aro ghotona ache
:> pechone.
>
:> Apnara hothi iccha kore oboggya korchen na..kinthu result tho ek-i
>
:> Shahajjo korun, amader shathe kaj korun, Bangla ke aro shokthishali
:> korun, kinthu amader nyajjo SHomman tio dien. Dhonnoyobad
Tenara nischoy kichu likhben .. seta interesting hobey.. :) Othoba
t[N]ader
kichu bolar nei...
Asif Saleh
Naeem brought this issue up at a perfect time. I, myself, wanted to
bring it up
but never had the time.
Okay apart from some of the examples Naeem cited,
I will cite a few of mine. All the WB bangalees may call it
over-simplification
and broad generalization, but I think I have observed enough to make
this generalization
that most of the Bangalees from Calcutta has a "Nashika Rog" when it
comes
to culture.
The first two cases are paraphrased from a writing of Syed Shahid a few
years ago from the Bangalee weekly Porichoy.
Syed Shahid was selling Bangla books at a book fair in NY. He had
books of
both Indian and Bangladeshi writeers. A reader spent some time
browsing thru the
books. She seemed quite impressed by a book written by Purabi Basu and
asked
him if this writer was new in the circle. Shahid replied in the
affirmative and
she was ready to buy it when she asked him where was the writer from.
She left the
stall without buying the book when he told her that Purabi Basu is from
Bangladesh.
Aparna Sen was asked in an interview about her thought on the group
theater
movement and the state of Stage drama in Bangladesh. Aparna Sen, the
editor
of weekly Sananda which has a huge number of subscriber in BD, said that
she didn't much about it but somebody named "Asadur Rahman" was quite
impressive.
Of course, we the Bangladeshies soon realized that she was really
talking about
Asaduzzaman Nur, who is one of the most prominet actors in Bangladeshi
drama circle
for quite sometime.
A fellow Bangalee Didi here in this town was very surprized when she
found out
that Bangladeshies wear "tip" in their foreheads too. She thought we
have "purdah"
in Bangladesh and the women only wear Burkhas.
We have a very talented Rabindra Sangeet singer here in Raleigh. When
she
first performed in front of the WB crowd , their instant reaction was
"O ki shanti Niketon thekeey pash koreyche?" As if we can not produce
any good artist from Bangladesh.
Time and time again I discovered that the WBengalees are not only
ignorant
about what is going on in Bangladesh, they simply think they do not
really
need to know because they only know better. What bothers me the most is
not
this ignorance but their attitude of "I could care less".
As much as we want to check out Joy Goshwami or Abul Bashar, they do not
care about what's all the buzz about Akhtaruzzaman Ilias. There was a
time
when I personally thought perhaps they really know better. But boy was
I wrong!
WAKE UP!!!
It is the Bangladeshies who are mostly bearing the torch of Bangla
culture now. So
you better come on board with us before we leave you. All you be left
with
otherwise are some old pride, some Hindi speaking Bangalees and Monisha
Koirala.
So better late then never. Check out why Mita Huq is so popular in
Rabindra
Sangeet in Bangladesh, why Akhtaruzzaman Ilyas won the Ananda purushkar,
and
why the likes of Utpolendu, Budhodeb Dashgupto, Sandeep Roy and Goutom
Ghosh are taking
Champa and Asad in their films before you say out "Ora to Bangal, ora ki
bojhe?"
And last but not the least read Purabi Basu's writing as a writer not as
a writer from Bangladesh.
Sincerely,
Asif
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Asif Saleh wrote:
>
> A fellow Bangalee Didi here in this town was very surprized when she
> found out
> that Bangladeshies wear "tip" in their foreheads too. She thought we
> have "purdah"
> in Bangladesh and the women only wear Burkhas.
Painstaking truth. In another instance, when a friend asked me if they
could extend an invitation to my "Bangladeshi" (notice, not Bangali)
friends, she double checked if she could talk to them in Bengali!!!
I was so shattered that I did not know where to start...
But Asif, let's not blame each other's ignorance, but try to spread
understanding among each other. I can give you several counter-examples
where my Bangali friends from Bangladesh have expressed ridiculous
ignorance about West Bengali culture.
The problem has several levels. A stupid, hate-ridden, selfish, and
blind "Partition" is one of them.
Regards,
Shoumyo.
Anonymous User
Asif Saleh <asa...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>We have a very talented Rabindra Sangeet singer here in Raleigh. When
>she first performed in front of the WB crowd , their instant reaction >was "O ki shanti Niketon thekeey pash koreyche?" As if we c=
an not >produce any good artist from Bangladesh.
Taar akta karon ki ei hote paare je, je kono dhrupodi
shongeet-i gurumukhi! Poshchimbonge-o to notun kono
RS-shilpi bhalo gaile srota-ra jigesh koren, "Talim
kaar kaachhe?", ebong uttor-e kono protishthito trainer-er
naam shunle ashwosto hon.
Sambit
Indranil DasGupta
Asif Saleh (asa...@eos.ncsu.edu) wrote:
: Naeem brought this issue up at a perfect time. I, myself, wanted to
: bring it up
: but never had the time.
: Okay apart from some of the examples Naeem cited,
: I will cite a few of mine. All the WB bangalees may call it
: over-simplification
: and broad generalization, but I think I have observed enough to make
: this generalization
: that most of the Bangalees from Calcutta has a "Nashika Rog" when it
: comes
: to culture.
Amar obhigyota holo ei je bharoter bangali-der modhye jNara edeshe
sthayi bhabe theke jan, tNader jiboner ekti prodhan udyeshyo holo bangla
bhule jaoa. Odhikangsho khetre tNara shudhu bangladesh-ke noy, puro
bangla-kei upekhkha koren.
Tobe e niye amar kono obhijog nei. Kuo jekhane achhe shekhanei
thakuk. Jar teshta pay na take jor kore ar koto jol khaoano jay?
IDG.
Asif Saleh
Anonymous User wrote:
>
> Asif Saleh <asa...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >We have a very talented Rabindra Sangeet singer here in Raleigh. When
>
> Taar akta karon ki ei hote paare je, je kono dhrupodi
> shongeet-i gurumukhi! Poshchimbonge-o to notun kono
> RS-shilpi bhalo gaile srota-ra jigesh koren, "Talim
> kaar kaachhe?", ebong uttor-e kono protishthito trainer-er
> naam shunle ashwosto hon.
>
>
Hote Parey. Kintu amar apotti holo initial assumption-tate jekhaney
Calcutta-r
Bangali-ra money koren "gurumukhi Dhrupodi Shongeet" manei
Shanti Niketon. Keno bhaben na Chayanot-er Sanjida Khatun ba
Anondodhoni-r Wahidul Huq ba Shongeet bhabon-er Kalim Sharafi-r kotha?
Amar apottita shekhanei. WB je ekhon Bangla culture-er padopeeth noi,
eta mathai dhukbe kobe/kibhabe jodi hal-er Dhaka-r khobor-ee keu na
rakhen!
Apratim Sarkar
O'i ignorance'ke jato patta deben tate aro chepe boshbe! WB ki
bhabe tate B'desh'r shilpi'der ki gelo-elo - WB'r khatir
na pele ki tader self-confidence jagbe na? Ami sure bhalo shilpi'r
khetre case'ta ta noi. Ar shrota'r byapare, WB matter kare kibhabe,
point'ta to holo bhalo gaan shona etc., loss'ta hole WB'r, B'desh'r
to noi?
Ta theke kichhu suggest korun na? Shuni. Seriously.
Apratim.
--
Shei nimesh'r ashesh uttoriyo Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are
Shab ramoni'ke mone hoto ramoniyo are my own and shouldn't be construed in
Jadukarder mela boshe jeto swapane| any way to represent that of my employer.
- Arun Kumar Sarkar.
Sambit Basu
Asif Saleh <asa...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>Anonymous User wrote:
>>
>> Asif Saleh <asa...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >We have a very talented Rabindra Sangeet singer here in Raleigh. When
>> >she first performed in front of the WB crowd , their instant reaction >was "O ki shanti Niketon thekeey pash koreyche?" As if w=
e can not >produce any good artist from Bangladesh.
>>
>> Taar akta karon ki ei hote paare je, je kono dhrupodi
>> shongeet-i gurumukhi! Poshchimbonge-o to notun kono
>> RS-shilpi bhalo gaile srota-ra jigesh koren, "Talim
>> kaar kaachhe?", ebong uttor-e kono protishthito trainer-er
>> naam shunle ashwosto hon.
>>
>>
>
>Hote Parey. Kintu amar apotti holo initial assumption-tate jekhaney
>Calcutta-r
>Bangali-ra money koren "gurumukhi Dhrupodi Shongeet" manei
>Shanti Niketon.
Jokhon shei gurumukhi dhrupodi shongeet-ti Rabindrsangeet,
tokhon amon bhabata, IMO, khub akta ojouktik noy. Taar
karon ei kichhudin aage obdi emon byaktitwo Songeet-bhobon-er
shonge jukto chhilen, jNara Rabindranath ba Dinendranath-er
kaachhe gaan shikhechhen ebong shuniyechhen. Shantideb
Ghosh akhono aachen.
>Keno bhaben na Chayanot-er Sanjida Khatun ba
>Anondodhoni-r Wahidul Huq ba Shongeet bhabon-er Kalim Sharafi-r kotha?
>Amar apottita shekhanei.
Thik je karone bhabenna Dokkhini, Geetobitan ba Subinoy
Ray-er kotha!
>WB je ekhon Bangla culture-er padopeeth noi,
>eta mathai dhukbe kobe/kibhabe jodi hal-er Dhaka-r khobor-ee keu na
>rakhen!
Rakha-r shohoj upay-ta baatle din na. Kolkata shohore
cassette-er dokaan-e Bangladesh-er shilpi-der gaan
shohoj-prapyo noy. Ta' sotte-o Iffat Ara Khan-er cassette
bikkiri hoy bhalo-i, jonopriyo shilpi hishebe Rezwana
Chowdhury Bonya-o shobha paan Roma Mondol-er paashe. Kintu
Kalim Sharafi shunte Bangladesh Radio-r daarosto howa
chhaDa goti thaake na. Bangladesh-e Suchitra, Konika
Debabrata shunte kotota kaath-khoD poDate hoy, ta' oboshyo
jaanina.
Sambit
Asif Saleh
Apratim Sarkar wrote:
>
> Ta theke kichhu suggest korun na? Shuni. Seriously.
>
> Apratim.
>
Naak-ta to ekhon anek uchu... Naakta nichu korey shubho jatra shuru hok
na hoi :-)
Seriously...
Asif Saleh
>
>
>
> Rakha-r shohoj upay-ta baatle din na. Kolkata shohore
> cassette-er dokaan-e Bangladesh-er shilpi-der gaan
> shohoj-prapyo noy. Ta' sotte-o Iffat Ara Khan-er cassette
> bikkiri hoy bhalo-i, jonopriyo shilpi hishebe Rezwana
> Chowdhury Bonya-o shobha paan Roma Mondol-er paashe.
>Kintu
> Kalim Sharafi shunte Bangladesh Radio-r daarosto howa
> chhaDa goti thaake na. Bangladesh-e Suchitra, Konika
> Debabrata shunte kotota kaath-khoD poDate hoy, ta' oboshyo
> jaanina.
>
>
Shetai to amar Naeem-er point. Keno Bangladesh-er khobor pawa eto
difficult Kolkattai? Keno Desh Potrika-te eto deen badey Bangladesh-er
lekha ber hoi? Keno Eto bikri shotteo Bangladesh-er eto tuku khobor
thakey
na Shanondai? Eshobee to ek dhoroner Nashika pona. Noi ki?
Bangladesh-er Shuchitra- Kanika-r availability-r kotha jante chaichen.
Well pa baralei ganer dali ( HMV-r dealer) , shekhaney hat baralei
Kanika, Shuchitra, Shubinoy ar Shumon, Anjan.
Sambit Basu
Asif Saleh writes:
>Sambit Basu wrote:
>> Rakha-r shohoj upay-ta baatle din na. Kolkata shohore
>> cassette-er dokaan-e Bangladesh-er shilpi-der gaan
>> shohoj-prapyo noy. Ta' sotte-o Iffat Ara Khan-er cassette
>> bikkiri hoy bhalo-i, jonopriyo shilpi hishebe Rezwana
>> Chowdhury Bonya-o shobha paan Roma Mondol-er paashe.
>Shetai to amar Naeem-er point. Keno Bangladesh-er khobor pawa eto
>difficult Kolkattai? Keno Desh Potrika-te eto deen badey Bangladesh-er
>lekha ber hoi? Keno Eto bikri shotteo Bangladesh-er eto tuku khobor
>thakey na Shanondai? Eshobee to ek dhoroner Nashika pona. Noi ki?
Sahityo-r byapar jaanina, tobe gaan-er khetre banijyik
protishthaan-er Marketing Dept.-er dapot (HMV) ba
proyash-er obhaab (Bangladesh-er recording house) dekhe,
unnashikota-r obhijog shara poshchimbonger shomosto
manush-er opor chapiye deowa-ta ki thik holo?
Udyog-ta ele gaan bikkiri kichhu kom hobe bole mone
hoyna. Kintu sheta opaar theke-i prothome ashte hobe.
IMHO.
Sambit
Naeem Mohaiemen
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> sahajjo na bole, barong bolun "chinte, jante chesta korun". sei chesta-ta kintu
> du tarofei howa dorkar (je apnarao chenate, janate chesta korun).
Hobe du thorfa.
Shejonnei tho thik korechi JUKTHAKKHOR er upor give_up na kore ekhon
theke niomitho likhbo.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Pavel <n...@cs.purdue.edu> wrote:
>Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>>
.. deleted ...
>
>Tenara nischoy kichu likhben .. seta interesting hobey.. :) Othoba
>t[N]ader
>kichu bolar nei...
katokichhui to likhlam, bollam. mushkil-ta ei, je taar to kono uttor ashe na.
discussion to eka eka hoi na, dui, ba duier odhik laage.
>
>> --
Debashis.
Apratim Sarkar
Apnar naak'r chinta dekhi gaan'r theke beshi! Etai to gero ...
Jakge bolben na to bolben na.
Raja Vikramaditya
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
>
> Pavel <n...@cs.purdue.edu> wrote:
> >Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
> >>
>
> .. deleted ...
>
> >
> >t[N]ader
> >kichu bolar nei...
>
> discussion to eka eka hoi na, dui, ba duier odhik laage.
eh ? wazzat ?
>
> >
> >> --
>
> Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>>Pavel on DADAGIRI thread<
>
>>>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
>
>> 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye sahittey
>> egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
>
>Na.
>
>Dadagiri is not my term, Ahmod Sofa's. And I don't agree with all HIS
>implications.
>
>one culture, we have to share to survive, etc, BUT when it comes to
>brass tacks, it seems that we always make more of an effort.
>
>A small example, and maybe it's not representative:
>
>RITWIK GHATAK film festival happened.
>
>His stories are all WB based except for TITASH.
>
>I posted like mad to newsgroups. Called/cajoled/harrassed people to
>every show.
>
>shows.
>
>community go nuts and try to bring dol-bol to it?
>
>center-for-gods-sake,etc, while MUKTHI was all the way out in the Queens
>boonies.
>
>Yes, yes, yes.
>
Sorry to interject in the middle of a discussion, but in my experience,
something is missing from both sides, depending on circumstances.
I was quite actively involved in the Bengali community while spending my time
at Yale. There was (and still is) only one major Bengali organization
(Parichoy) in the New Haven area, not divided along religious and/or
nationality lines. It was started primarily by Bengalis from WB (myself
included). We did whatever was humanly possible to inform Bangladeshis about
the existence of this organization, its goals, its activities, etc. Most of the
years, if not all of the years, one or more of the posts of president,
vice-president, secretary and treasurer was filled by Bangaladeshi nationals.
In fact, last year, I believe the president of Parichoy was from Bangladesh.
Yet, the Bangladeshi population in-and-around New Haven (and there is quite a
bit) did not come in any significant numbers. A few students and post-docs from
Yale participated actively (and became president, secretary, etc.), and a few
more senior members (also mostly affiliated with Yale) would show up, but the
rest of the Bangladeshis just did not show up for any activity.
In fact, we -- meaning office-bearers and/or active members, most of whom
turned out to be from WB due to lack of participation by Bangladeshis -- spent
a very large part of our time deciding what we should/should not do in order to
get better participation by Bangaladeshis. Yet, the BD population seemed least
interested in participating.
Worst of all, even among those Bangladeshis who did participate, religion
seemed to be factor that they simply could not ignore, while (without being
biased in any way) I must say that the crowd from WB showed much much greater
ability to put religion aside, and to think of themselves as Bengalis.
A small example:
When Parichoy started, Bijoya and Id were more or less coincidental. As a
result, we had a gathering commemorating both -- not in any religious way, but
just in a social way. What we (Hindus from WB) did not understand was that that
turned off the Bangladeshis (who were participating in Parichoy) big time! In
fact, only about two-three Bangladeshis usually showed up for this gathering,
and we were resigned to the fact that we were not going any more participation.
Only much later did we find out that apparently, Id is too religious an
occassion to be taken so lightly, or to be shared with non-muslims. You may
ask, then how do I know this?
Well, a few years later, Id and Bijoya were nowhere near each other, on the
calendar. However, the gathering was still called Bijoya/Id -- nobody had
bothered to change the name -- and someone objected (that Id is nowhere near
this time of the year). This led to a rather animated and long-drawn discussion
about what should/should not Parichoy celebrate, whether to have a common
celebration and call it a "Bengali get together", whether to have two separate
gatherings for Id and Bijoya, etc., etc.,
In course of this heated debate, one BD muslim gentleman (his religion is
important here) suddenly said that "even if you have two separate celebrations,
the muslims will not come to the celebration meant for Id!" Naturally, a storm
of questions followed, and that's when we found out that the Bangladeshi
muslims, at least according to this gentleman (who was president of Parichoy,
the year before this debate took place), simply would not and could not think
of having a get-together with non-muslims to commemorate Id!!
Now, tell me, whose side is missing something?
>
>
>KENO: Why do many BDs read Shunil with such enthu, and yet Calcutta is
>never agog to that degree w any of our writers?"
Here is a comment from the owner of "Dasgupta" one of the oldest surviving book
stores in Calcutta: "ki durdin-tai na poRechhe! bhalo bangla lekha aar kolkata
theke beroi na; bhalo lekha ekhon aashe bangladesh theke"
Comment made to me in a personal encounter, while browsing some books at their
store.
>
>Why do we always go all out for Satyajit, Mrinal, but amader bhalo
>director der keu tene hicher festival nithe hoi?
saber-i somoi laage, but that is probably not all. I will agree that there is
some bias there.
>
>KENO: after so many years, DESH only just started printing pieces by
>Humayun Ahmed 2+ years ago. Ethodin kothai chilen? [and HA isn't even
>our best, but we'll start with pulp even]
>
>KENO: Mrinal Sen filmed all over India but never in Bangladesh. And
>when we, in the sudience in 94 in Dhaka asked him, why did you never
>film here, his only response was a really disappointing "Amar passport
>tho Indian, mela jhamela"
>
>ICCHA THAKILE UPAI HOI
eta bala sahoj, kintu, in real-life, eta sotyi-sotyi ekta problem. I know the
other side of the coin (BD citizen, wants to work in India) from discussions
with a friend of mine who is a BD hindu, and married to a lady from WB. In
various conversations, I have heard many horror stories about BD citizens
trying to work in India (and the troubles they face).
I have a strong suspicion that the same is true of Indian citizens trying to
work in BD. On the other hand, would that really stifle Mrinal Sen, if he
really wanted to shoot in BD? I guess that's quite a bit of simplification, on
his part.
>
>KENO: Dui Bangla r shommilitho attempt JUKTHAKKHOR, an excellent
>enterprise I want it to succeeed, they printed a fairly weak, rambling
>piece of mine-- I was very proud and faxed it around like a child_of_7.
>
>KINTHU, keno keno eshob cheshta shobshomoy Calcutta theke. Keno kono
>shomoy apnara chan na je Dhaka e rastha rastha e shobai Bangla bole,
>JUJTHAKKHOR er jokhon financial difficulty hocchilo, thokhon ekbar Dhaka
>e anar kotha bhable na?
>
>KENO: Bare bare ami Oberlin College e ebong ekhon amar bhai, moha
>enthusiasim nie Satyajit ray film festival, Mrinal Sen retro, itthyadi
>korar cheshta kori, KINTHU koi apnara tho konodin GOLAPI EKHON TRAIN E,
>SHURJO DIGHOL BARI, SHIMANA PERIE, SHOOTIR GHONTA, DOOMOR ER FOOL,
>SHARENG BOU, etc dekhabar jonnyo moria hoe poren na?
aami nijer abhigyota diye bujhte paari, je anek-ta asymmetry aashe visibility-r
abhab theke. je karonei hok Satyajit, Mrinal Sen-er naam loke jane, kintu BD
director-ra se-rakom bhabe porichito non, bangladesher baire. aami nijei tander
sambondhe bishes jani na, ebong keu amake seta na janale, tander boi dekhar
janyo moria hoye paRar kono karon dekhi na.
ekhon dosh-ta ki shudhu amar (je aami jani na), naki BD-r director der-o, je
tanra nijeder kaaj sufficiently prochar korte paren na -- ei "advertisement is
everything"-er jug-e?
>
>KENO: WB er kritthi prothiti director er filmography amader tana
>mukhostho, othocho amar Calutta friends [esp younger ones] cannot name
>10 Bangladeshi films they have even seen?
>
>Ami ki shudhu emotional nationalist, only-seeing-bad-ignoring-good, naki
>er moddhye kichu ache?
>
>APnader ki shei iccha-ta ache?
>
>I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for people to write:
>"Naeem you're full of ____ ! The following 100 examples are situations
>where Calcutta Dhaka cultural exchange is equal, loving, respectful"
>
>I want to be wrong on this.
I wish I could prove you wrong, and in certain ways (like the comment from the
owner of Dasgupta), you are wrong. The informed intellectuals of WB do
recognize the flourishing literature of BD. Average Bengalis from WB do not
necessarily know about what BD has to offer to all Bengalis, in general.
tabe, ei sangbad-ta chhaRanor daityo to shudhu WB-r bangali-der noi, BD-r
bangali-der o. tara ki tader daityo palon korechhe, jathajatho bhabe? amar
bangladeshi bondhuti-r kolyane ami ekhon bangladesher kichhu guni (kichhu
uthti-o) lekhak-er kaajer sange porichito. kintu, kajon WB-er bangalir erakom
ekjon bondhu acche, jaar thru diye se bangladesh-ke chinte, jante parbe?
bangladeshi-ra "abhiman" kore, ki je kono karone, nije-der modhye gutiye
thakle, seta-o to ei "na-jana"r karon, noi ki?
>
>This is not an attack on WB. It is an appeal to ask homestly if Two
>Bengals will ever have an EQUAL dialogue of culture. Hya amader bohu
>ajebaje lekhok ache. But shetai ki shob. naki aro ghotona ache
>pechone.
>
>Apnara hothi iccha kore oboggya korchen na..kinthu result tho ek-i
eta maante parlam na. du parei anek dharon-er manush achhe. ekhon ami jodi boli
je samosto bangladeshi-i ei newsgroup-er kichhu religiously fanatic BD citizen
der moto (naam bole kaaj nei, tabe recent nanan thread-e ke fanatic to dekhai
gachhe), to setai ki thik katha habe?
>
>Shahajjo korun, amader shathe kaj korun, Bangla ke aro shokthishali
>korun, kinthu amader nyajjo SHomman tio dien. Dhonnoyobad
sahajjo na bole, barong bolun "chinte, jante chesta korun". sei chesta-ta kintu
du tarofei howa dorkar (je apnarao chenate, janate chesta korun). ekhono WB
bangali-der opor (antoto ekta subset-er opor) amar eituku bharosa achhe, je
tara gunee-r samman debe, jadi khonj pai to.
>
>--
>An over-emotional diatribe from
>
>Naeem Mohaiemen
>HBO Interactive Media
Debashis Bhattacharya.
Anindya Ghoshal
: >>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
: > 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye sahittey
: > egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
: Na.
: Dadagiri is not my term, Ahmod Sofa's. And I don't agree with all HIS
: implications.
In an earlier posting you have cited Ahmed Sofa to have said Taslima's
writing would incite riots in WB. Please tell him that in last 49 years
in WB there hadn't been a single religious riot while Bangladesh's
own records leaves much to be desired!!
: I [only me] interpret it as a lip service to: One Bengal, one people,
: one culture, we have to share to survive, etc, BUT when it comes to
: brass tacks, it seems that we always make more of an effort.
: A small example, and maybe it's not representative:
: RITWIK GHATAK film festival happened.
: His stories are all WB based except for TITASH.
You guys succeeded in kicking Ghatak out from Bangladesh, then East
Pakistan, ekhon onakey gaal dicchen? Why not ask those religious fanatics!!
Anyway almost all of his movies dealt with refugee problems and urban
decadence emanating from personal experience. For my family who live through
Partition days in and out his movies remain a living testimony what
life was for those who passed thru. harrowing days.
: I posted like mad to newsgroups. Called/cajoled/harrassed people to
: every show.
Thank you!!
Ritwik Babu ultimately landed up in Pune film Institute..amongst others
Mani Kaul, Om Puri, Shabana Azmi, Naseruddin Shah were his students..he
died unsung in the film world...
: There were many Bangladeshis and there were many from Calcutta at all
: shows.
: Yet, when we have MUKTHIR GAAN showing, does the entire Calcutta
: community go nuts and try to bring dol-bol to it?
Can't say anything about expatriate community..
: Yes there are many factors: RITWIK was high profile/lincoln
: center-for-gods-sake,etc, while MUKTHI was all the way out in the Queens
: boonies.
True appreciation of Ghatak was done only after his death..he was
never a high profile person!!!
: Yes, yes, yes.
: But still something seems missing from YOUR side..
: KENO: Why do many BDs read Shunil with such enthu, and yet Calcutta is
: never agog to that degree w any of our writers?"
You're completely wrong..in Calcutta Book Fair bookstalls keeping
bangladeshi witness brisk sells.I guess Anustup Publ. is one such
stalls which combine BD books along with little magazines and other
books incl. Samar Sen to Sumit Sarkar..
: Why do we always go all out for Satyajit, Mrinal, but amader bhalo
: director der keu tene hicher festival nithe hoi?
Korun naa..ei Storrs thekey drive kore jaabo dektey..
: KENO: after so many years, DESH only just started printing pieces by
: Humayun Ahmed 2+ years ago. Ethodin kothai chilen? [and HA isn't even
: our best, but we'll start with pulp even]
daud haider-er kobita seventies thekey desh-e niyomito beroi..onakey
jokhon apnara Bangladesh thekey taralen tokhon oi AnnadaShankar Ray onake
shnan dyan nijer barite. Poschim Bongo thekey kono silpi-lekok-kobi
desantorito hoyechen sunechen ki?? Abar sunil -ke gaal dicchilen
keno Taslima-ke ekhaney thekey jetey bollen bole..hmmm..
: KENO: Mrinal Sen filmed all over India but never in Bangladesh. And
: when we, in the sudience in 94 in Dhaka asked him, why did you never
: film here, his only response was a really disappointing "Amar passport
: tho Indian, mela jhamela"
Ek have you ever tried to get a Bangladeshi visa from Calcutta?
Secondly the process have started longtime back..Bangladeshi actresses
like Bobita had acted in Satyajit's movies (see Ashoni Sonket et al)
Goutam Ghosh directed Podma Nodir Majhi which was a joint venture. But
I agree Mrinal Sen's answer was disappointing but more interaction
is required.
: ICCHA THAKILE UPAI HOI
yep right..
: KENO: Dui Bangla r shommilitho attempt JUKTHAKKHOR, an excellent
: enterprise I want it to succeeed, they printed a fairly weak, rambling
: piece of mine-- I was very proud and faxed it around like a child_of_7.
Excellent let's work together......
: KINTHU, keno keno eshob cheshta shobshomoy Calcutta theke. Keno kono
: shomoy apnara chan na je Dhaka e rastha rastha e shobai Bangla bole,
: JUJTHAKKHOR er jokhon financial difficulty hocchilo, thokhon ekbar Dhaka
: e anar kotha bhable na?
Calcutta is not a Bengali city ..actually somewhere in '30's Bengalis
became a minority and now Bengalis mostly live in the suburbs as most
of them can't afford to live in the proper Calcutta... while Dhaka
is a proper Bengali city..it should take its responsibility to spread
Bengali culture..
: KENO: Bare bare ami Oberlin College e ebong ekhon amar bhai, moha
: enthusiasim nie Satyajit ray film festival, Mrinal Sen retro, itthyadi
: korar cheshta kori, KINTHU koi apnara tho konodin GOLAPI EKHON TRAIN E,
: SHURJO DIGHOL BARI, SHIMANA PERIE, SHOOTIR GHONTA, DOOMOR ER FOOL,
: SHARENG BOU, etc dekhabar jonnyo moria hoe poren na?
Dekhun GOI has no interest in showing Bangladeshi movies on TV and increase
cultural exchange..it is upto to the Bengalis to increase interaction and
cultural exchange..
: KENO: WB er kritthi prothiti director er filmography amader tana
: mukhostho, othocho amar Calutta friends [esp younger ones] cannot name
: 10 Bangladeshi films they have even seen?
Do you know the popularity of Dhaka TV especially the natoks in Bengal??
: Ami ki shudhu emotional nationalist, only-seeing-bad-ignoring-good, naki
: er moddhye kichu ache?
Bengali's survival instinct.
: APnader ki shei iccha-ta ache?
acchey..
: I would love to be proven wrong. I would love for people to write:
: "Naeem you're full of ____ ! The following 100 examples are situations
: where Calcutta Dhaka cultural exchange is equal, loving, respectful"
No you're not wrong..there are hardly any cultural exchange..
: I want to be wrong on this.
: This is not an attack on WB. It is an appeal to ask homestly if Two
: Bengals will ever have an EQUAL dialogue of culture. Hya amader bohu
: ajebaje lekhok ache. But shetai ki shob. naki aro ghotona ache
: pechone.
dialogue korun tobey Sunil-babooke ojotha gaal deben naa..ooni
oi dialogue korar jonno onekdin dhorey bolchen..
: Apnara hothi iccha kore oboggya korchen na..kinthu result tho ek-i
: Shahajjo korun, amader shathe kaj korun, Bangla ke aro shokthishali
: korun, kinthu amader nyajjo SHomman tio dien. Dhonnoyobad
aapnara Bangla-key bachiye rekhechen ..WB had lost already its movies
and part of culture to Hindi onslaughts thru. movies and TV's..
: --
: An over-emotional diatribe from
: Naeem Mohaiemen
: HBO Interactive Media
bhalo likechen kintu Ahmed Sofa, Bangla Academy,aapnader intellectual-der
proshno: WB-ir Bangali-der gaal dicchen din..kintu proti din Bangladesh
thekey ghorib manush WB/Calcutta hajir hocchen either due to economic
or religious reasons and it includes Muslim and Hindus..aamra kintu
tader tariye deini..those idiots who want to deny this silent migration
of poor people from BD to WB to earn their living should get their pompous
asses and move it to the railway line squatters from Utla-danga to
Garia...Salt Lake thekey oi bosti-tey old ladies in their sixties and seventies
some of them were kicked out of their homes fifty years ago from the now BD,
go to teach their children for free and try in their small way to help
them out..just want to know what those shady intellectuals from Dhaka
or wherever are doing to alleviate the miseries of these ppl. Apnader
mon kaadey jokhon kono bangali meye tar deho bikri korche Sona-gachi -te
baa Bombay-er rastai?? Let me tell you my friend ..get hold off any social
activist who are working in these Red-light districts ..he/she would
tell you the majority of those in these areas are either from Bengalis or
Nepalese..!!! Shame on every bloody Bengali who is reading this
on internet !!! Oi sahityo diye ki hobey jodi 60-70% Bengalis can't
read or eat??? Bangali intellectual-ra bamponthi aatlami korei beshir
bhaag somoi katiye dilen..kaajer kaaj ki korechen??
rgds,
Anindo.
--
email address: agho...@eng2.uconn.edu
Life is a just a procrastination for death
Kalpataru Barman
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
> >Pavel on DADAGIRI thread<
>
> >>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
>
> > 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye sahittey
> > egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
>
Baktabya taake ektu Generalize kori, WB bhaabey , je sahittey tara
sudhu Bangladesh noi, India-r anya province-er theke-o anek egiye
aachey. Aaro aachey, aneke bhaaben sudhu sahittya noi,
shilpo/kala/sanskriti-r anek dike-i tara egiye aachey.
Modda katha holo, 'Bangladesh, Bihar, UP saab faltu baa "khaja",
aamra anek aagey !'. Eke aapnaara 'naasika rog' baa je rog i
bolun naa keno, er kono osudh nei .
Asif Saleh
Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>
> Anindya Ghoshal wrote:
>
> > In an earlier posting you have cited Ahmed Sofa to have said Taslima's
> > writing would incite riots in WB. Please tell him that in last 49 years
> > in WB there hadn't been a single religious riot while Bangladesh's
> > own records leaves much to be desired!!
>
Shotti ???? Bangal-ke highcourt dekhai naki? I was stuck in Calcutta
for
7 long days during the dark days of December in 1992 because of the
Hindu Muslim riots
which was one of the worst in the country. 3 days of non-stop curphew
was imposed.
A Hindu family even wanted us to shelter us for the time being. But
being in a "upper-class" neighborhood at Baliganj Place we were saved.
But Park Circus was not far from there and we heard all the
horror stories that took place. Is Mr. Anindya Ghoshal ignorant or BJP?
Asif Saleh
Naeem Mohaiemen
Anindya Ghoshal wrote:
> In an earlier posting you have cited Ahmed Sofa to have said Taslima's
> writing would incite riots in WB. Please tell him that in last 49 years
> in WB there hadn't been a single religious riot while Bangladesh's
> own records leaves much to be desired!!
Jene khushi holam, jodi shottho hoi.
Kinthu shob kichuthe-i keno "We're at least better off than you"?
Surely you can discuss communal incidents/or lack of in WB w/out addding
"Better than BD's record in every sentence.
> You guys succeeded in kicking Ghatak out from Bangladesh, then East
> Pakistan, ekhon onakey gaal dicchen?
Sorry?
Where did you see "gaal"? Read the rest of the post.
> You're completely wrong..in Calcutta Book Fair bookstalls keeping
> bangladeshi witness brisk sells.
Been there. The # of books from BD in Kolkatha BF compared to # in BD
bookfair is disproportional. It's not just quality issue, Kolkatha
market is closed to BD books by design.
> I guess Anustup Publ. is one such
> stalls which combine BD books along with little magazines and other
> books incl. Samar Sen to Sumit Sarkar..
Etho khuje shudhu ANUSHTUP ke ber korthe parlen example hishebe?
Jara jane prokashona shilpo, thara bujhe neben er theke-i cultural
exchange ta keno etho lean.
> : Why do we always go all out for Satyajit, Mrinal, but amader bhalo
> : director der keu tene hicher festival nithe hoi?
>
> Korun naa..ei Storrs thekey drive kore jaabo dektey..
Na. miche kotha. Apni eshechilen MUKTHIR GAAN dekhthe? Ashen ni.
> daud haider-er kobita seventies thekey desh-e niyomito beroi..
Daud Haider er lekha kharap noi. Kinthu you can understand why BD
community gets suspicious when DESH only publishes writers identified as
"Islam bashers".
> Poschim Bongo thekey kono silpi-lekok-kobi
> desantorito hoyechen sunechen ki??
"Learn from your betters"? Isn't this part of the nashika-roag
problem..even in the tone of your post..?
> Ek have you ever tried to get a Bangladeshi visa from Calcutta?
No. Are you trying to say that's why Mrinal didn't film in BD?
> Secondly the process have started longtime back..Bangladeshi actresses
> like Bobita had acted in Satyajit's movies (see Ashoni Sonket et al)
There is only OSHONI SHONKET. No et al. It's the only Ray film in which
he used BD actors.
> Goutam Ghosh directed Podma Nodir Majhi which was a joint venture.
Yes, note those were the TWO examples you came up with and 20 years
separate the two.
> while Dhaka
> is a proper Bengali city..it should take its responsibility to spread
> Bengali culture..
We are tring. Kinthu sharakhon jodi Kolkatha-e gie lecture shunthe hoi
on "the right way of doing things", instead of a genuine equal qxchange,
small wonder some younger BD writers often turn down invitations/opps to
attend seminars.
"Kahathok ar lecture shunbo, athora shob moulobadi, amader theke
shikh..etc"--jonoiko
Also any Muslim-ness in Bengali lit from BD is part of our identity, but
this frightens some Kolkatha goshti. Any Muslim cultural influence in
our lit is "moulobadi", as opposed to being seen as a different culture.
> dialogue korun tobey Sunil-babooke ojotha gaal deben naa..ooni
> oi dialogue korar jonno onekdin dhorey bolchen..
Oboshhyoy bolechen. Kinthu tharporo result tho hoeche ulto. Aro damage
kore diechen shomporko-ta via Taslima affair.
> bhalo likechen kintu Ahmed Sofa, Bangla Academy,aapnader intellectual-der
> proshno: WB-ir Bangali-der gaal dicchen din..kintu proti din Bangladesh
> thekey ghorib manush WB/Calcutta hajir hocchen either due to economic
> or religious reasons and it includes Muslim and Hindus..aamra kintu
> tader tariye deini..those idiots who want to deny this silent migration
> of poor people from BD to WB to earn their living should get their pompous
> asses and move it to the railway line squatters from Utla-danga to
> Garia...Salt Lake thekey oi bosti-tey old ladies in their sixties and seventies
> some of them were kicked out of their homes fifty years ago from the now BD,
> go to teach their children for free and try in their small way to help
> them out..just want to know what those shady intellectuals from Dhaka
> or wherever are doing to alleviate the miseries of these ppl. Apnader
> mon kaadey jokhon kono bangali meye tar deho bikri korche Sona-gachi -te
> baa Bombay-er rastai?? Let me tell you my friend ..get hold off any social
> activist who are working in these Red-light districts ..he/she would
> tell you the majority of those in these areas are either from Bengalis or
> Nepalese..!!! Shame on every bloody Bengali who is reading this
> on internet !!! Oi sahityo diye ki hobey jodi 60-70% Bengalis can't
> read or eat??? Bangali intellectual-ra bamponthi aatlami korei beshir
> bhaag somoi katiye dilen..kaajer kaaj ki korechen??
All very well and true, kinthu diversionary paragraph. Why does trying
to increase cultural exchange mean we are ignoring the social issues?
Amar tho mone hoi shesh para the ekta khocha dilen, look you can't even
feed your people, they are coming over to us for food, so don't lecture
us about culture..
nashika-rog/dadagiri noi ki?
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> The 64 million dollar question is: any takers? naki, gaal dewa hoye gechhe,
> ekhon jemon cholchhilo, temni-i choluk?
>
Chomthkar prostabona. Ageo ami ei shetunirman-er katha bolechchi,
aykhono ami oti uthshaher shongey Debashish-dar shongey ekhetrey
aachchi. Orthat Naeem ba Asif-bhaier shongeo.
Shoumyo.
> Debashis.
Raja Vikramaditya
OY ! Kee bolae ?
Raja
Debashis Bhattacharya
Pavel <n...@cs.purdue.edu> wrote:
>Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
>>
>:> >Pavel on DADAGIRI thread<
>:>
>:> >>RELATION BETWEEN WB & BD CULTURE<<
>:>
>:> > 9. Eta kono kono onshey sotti je WB vabey tara amader cheye
>sahittey
>:> > egiye achey. Etakei ki tumi dadagiri bolcho?
>:>
>:> Na.
>:>
>:> Dadagiri is not my term, Ahmod Sofa's. And I don't agree with all
>HIS
>:> implications.
.. deleted ...
Ekta majar byapar lakhyo korechhen ki? BD-r kichhu manush WB-r bangali-der
unnasikata niye katha tullen. khub dhum-dham kore WB-er bangali-der badnam kara
holo.
aami majhkhane gota dui lamba article-e nanan specific ghatonar udaharon diye
dekhalam je unnasikata rog-e BD-r manush-o kichhu kam bhogen na. aschorjo, kono
saRashabdo elo na, BD-r ei same lokeder kachh theke. barong, puro thread tai
kemon jeno jhim mere gelo!
WB-r bangali-der unnasikota niye katha tolata ki sotyi ekta dialog shuru karar
jonyo, naki khanikta gaal diye nijeder ego boost karar janyo?
kichhu jodi mone na karen, to boli je ei rakom ek tarfa gaal dewa (BDi-der
tarof theke) ta-o anekangshe responsible, WB-r bangali-der unnasikota-r janyo.
after all shudhu shudhu poRe poRe gaal khabo keno bolun to?
jodi sotyi aapnader ichhe thake, to build real bridges, aasun prothom theke
shuru kori: je unnasikota dui tarofer-i achhe, jodio taar forms hoito alada.
ekhon dekha jaak, ki ki bhabe du tarof-i nijeder naak take ektu niche namate
paari, jaate shudhu naak bNekano-r badole kichhu kaaj ek sathe kara jai.
aamra shuru korte paari bibhinno jaigai WB and BD-r manusher je alada alada
sangathon gulo achhe, segulo-ke joRa lagiye. aamra shuru korte paari
bangali-der baRo sammelan, like bango sammelan ebong bangladesh sammelan ke
eksathe coordinate kore, if not merge kore. aamra shuru korte paari dui desher
shilipi/lekhak/etc der niye gharoa ebong baRo dharoner sahityo/gaan/you-name-it
sabha/asor/retro kore.
after all, WB and BD-r theke besh khanikta dure thakai, amader kichhu advantage
achhe: je reshareshi take ektu "tame" karata relatively sahoj. perhaps amra
shuru korle, seta hoito catalyst-er kaaj korbe.
The 64 million dollar question is: any takers? naki, gaal dewa hoye gechhe,
ekhon jemon cholchhilo, temni-i choluk?
Debashis.
Naeem Mohaiemen
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> khub dhum-dham kore WB-er bangali-der badnam kara holo.
Etho pathla chamra nie debate korthe eshecho?
Etho cheshta korlam to be constructive/to keep language neutral/make it
clear that it's not a blame_game, tharpor e o bolcho "badnam"?
Thomar shathe debate shomoi noshto.
> aami majhkhane gota dui lamba article-e nanan specific ghatonar udaharon diye
> dekhalam je unnasikata rog-e BD-r manush-o kichhu kam bhogen na. aschorjo, kono
> saRashabdo elo na, BD-r ei same lokeder kachh theke.
Choop achi karon thomar example gulo amar jobon er shathe kono relevance
nei. Erokom ami dekhi ni.
Kinthu on the same hand, I don't want to post "D your eg's are bogus",
because they may be legit for you.
So I ignored you and concentrated on the posters who are a little more
ready to acknowledge the criticism.
T.H.Sanyal.
In article <326D8F...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu>, Shoumyo Dasgupta
<txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> says:
>Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
>> The 64 million dollar question is: any takers? naki, gaal dewa hoye gechhe,
>> ekhon jemon cholchhilo, temni-i choluk?
>>
>Chomthkar prostabona. Ageo ami ei shetunirman-er katha bolechchi,
>aykhono ami oti uthshaher shongey Debashish-dar shongey ekhetrey
>aachchi. Orthat Naeem ba Asif-bhaier shongeo.
Amio ei udyoger samarthak. Amar mane hoy je amader madhye bibhed
shrishtir itihas, jeta 1947 ebang tar pariprekshiter sange angangi-
bhabe jarito, setar ekta punarmulyayan khub jaruri. Gandhi-Birla
chakrer shikar amra ekbar hayechi, abar hate chai na.
ths.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
>> khub dhum-dham kore WB-er bangali-der badnam kara holo.
>
>Etho pathla chamra nie debate korthe eshecho?
>
uh-uh! proshno ta patla chamRa-r noi.
>Etho cheshta korlam to be constructive/to keep language neutral/make it
>clear that it's not a blame_game, tharpor e o bolcho "badnam"?
tomar language ta neutral holeo, blame chhilo boi ki: keno WB-r manush BD-r
artist-der beshi samman dyan na? blame noi?
Just trying to be objectively correct. objective correctness is the first step
towards curing a disease -- and what we have is a social disease, on both sides
of the border.
sort of pagoler chikitsa-r moto -- aage to pagol-ke swikar korte habe, je se
pagol, tabe na taar chikitsa kara sambhab!
>
>Thomar shathe debate shomoi noshto.
eta below-the-belt hoye gyalo. uttor na diye, "tomar sathe debate kara shomoi
nashto" bala-ta nitanto-i pash katiye jawa. barong ekta uttor pele khusee habo.
>
>> aami majhkhane gota dui lamba article-e nanan specific ghatonar udaharon diye
>> dekhalam je unnasikata rog-e BD-r manush-o kichhu kam bhogen na. aschorjo, kono
>> saRashabdo elo na, BD-r ei same lokeder kachh theke.
>
>Choop achi karon thomar example gulo amar jobon er shathe kono relevance
>nei. Erokom ami dekhi ni.
tahole bolte hoi, ashol proshno ta ei-khanei! je BD-r manusher keno mone hoi je
WB-r manush-ra unnasik, ebong WB-r manusher keno mone hoi, je BD-r manush-ra
unnasik? amra du tarof-i nishchoi kichhu kichhu bhul korchhi!
naki, tomar sathe debate takhon-i kara sambhab, jakhon WB-er sabai ekbakye kaan
dhore bolbe je "jato dosh amader, BD-er manush to debota-samo doshbiheen?"
>
>Kinthu on the same hand, I don't want to post "D your eg's are bogus",
>because they may be legit for you.
The issue is not whether they are legit for me, or not. The issue is are these
feelings/views/concerns legit for others from BD -- do you, or your friends and
aquaintances share the views that were expressed, so clearly by some highly
educated bangladeshis, affiliated with Yale? I cannot believe that they were
just one isolated group of 5-20 persons, in a sea of bangladeshis all of whom
believe otherwise.
>
>So I ignored you and concentrated on the posters who are a little more
>ready to acknowledge the criticism.
I'm perfectly willing to ack. criticism, as long as you are willing to do the
same -- and not simply ignore it, as you have been doing, so far.
After all, what we should have is a "constructive dialog" to find out what we
can do different to change the states of our socities, and not just "debate"
where one party "wins" over the other by convincing it that they are the
"guilty party". Won't you agree?
Debashis.
Kalpataru Barman
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> khub dhum-dham kore WB-er bangali-der badnam kara holo.
Ekaaj ta sadharanoto WB Bangalira nijera-i korey thaaken. Taa ekbaar
nahoi BD Bangali-ra korlen. Aha after all, du pokhkhoi Bangali !
Naeem Mohaiemen
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> >I'm perfectly willing to ack. criticism, as long as you are willing to do the
> >same -- and not simply ignore it, as you have been doing, so far.
It's very hard for me to acknowledge it because I have not witnessed
it. And my experience of BD attitude towards WB is so radically
opposite to what you describe [rather than nashika-roag, there seems to
be uncritical devotion, at least was in previous generation], that I
even find it hard to say, "Well it may not be my experience, but
Debashish has witnessed it, so it must happen sometimes", because I
think, thahole jibon e konodin erokom dekhlam na keno.
I have never seen BDs to be snooty about WB, rather sometimes
embarrassingly the opposite. Only in recent times among my generation
have I seen some who are critical about some of the Kolkatha offerings
and sometimes say "HYa kichu bhalo, kinthu shob noi".
I will wait to see if other WBs will chime in w concrete examples of BD
also having nashika-roag about WB. I will certainly think twice about
my previous response if I see a lot of people describing experiences
that paralleled the examples I gave.
I.e.
*The number of BD authors that DESH/ANONDOBAJAR has published in last 2
decades is tiny. This is a stat.
*The penetration of BD books in general WB market is also small. This
is also small. This is a stat. The counter-anecdotes that people are
giving of Calcutta book-fair are not representative of actual sales in
open market.
*The number of WB authors [esp Shunil and others] sold in BD open market
is huge. This is a stat.
Therefore, BD appreciates WB's cultural offerings, but WB does not
reciprocate to equal degree.
Now, can you offer STATISTICS to counter this hypothesis?
> >After all, what we should have is a "constructive dialog" to find out what we
> >can do different to change the states of our socities, and not just "debate"
> >where one party "wins" over the other by convincing it that they are the
> >"guilty party". Won't you agree?
> >
> >
>
> uttor-er erakom desparate abhab dekhe (from all the bangladeshis on both SCB's)
> ektimatro conclusion-e pNouchhote paarchhi: ei thread-ta shuru karar pechhone
> kono sotyikarer dialog-er ichha chhilo na. chhilo khanikta nije-der moner moto
> katha shonar. amar katha-gulo nischoi tNader moner moto hochhe na, tai chup
> chap. after all, kei ba swikar korte chai, je "amar-o kichhu dosh achhe?"
>
> of course, jato-din ei attitude-ta du tarof-ei bajai thakbe, tatodin samparko
> ta jemon kharap achhe, temni-i thakbe. what is amazing is that people like
> Naeem, who are very rational in many other respects, stumbled on this problem.
> of course, etao shekhar byapar -- theke shekha.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >Debashis.
> >
>
> Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> wrote:
>Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
>>Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
.. deleted ...
>>So I ignored you and concentrated on the posters who are a little more
>>ready to acknowledge the criticism.
>
>I'm perfectly willing to ack. criticism, as long as you are willing to do the
>same -- and not simply ignore it, as you have been doing, so far.
>
Asif Saleh
Debashish,
I don't know what you are really gonna establish by inflicting
'palta' accusations. Why don't you address the issues raised by my
original postings first before you expect the same from us?
And I don't know how many WB feel that there is a need for a dialogue.
Because the lack of that type of thoughts was precisely what I was
pointing
towards and since then nothing drastic really happened to change my
mind.
The whole purpose of the thread was to aware the Bangalies from WB
that a change of attitude towards the Bangladeshi culture is needed on
their
part. In stead of being able grasp it, you brought on the point
of communalism and other irrelvent matters.
So see my original posting and retrospect. If most of your pals from
WB feels that way, then try to change it.
Like Shoymmo said there is no point throwing accusation-counter
accusations to
one another. If what I said in my "nasika roag" post is
untrue or baseless then I will be the happiest person. So please
do not try to find ulterior motives behind it because there wasn't any.
Asif
> >
> >
> >
> >Debashis.
> >
>
> Debashis.
--
Asif Saleh
Supratik Das
On 24 Oct 1996, Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> Debashis Bhattacharya <bhattach> wrote:
> >Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com> wrote:
> >>Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
Chaliye jan dadara. Joy banglar joy. Joy bangali ekotar joy. Eto kotha
shuru korara agei kacha dhore tanatani korchen.
Supratik
Debashis Bhattacharya
I thought the idea was to have constructive dialog -- which I'm always in favor
of. kintu jodi shudhu badnam korei theme jawa hoi, tahole to kono kajer kaaj
holo na.
Debashis.
Naeem Mohaiemen
Supratik Das wrote:
> Joy bangali ekotar joy.
Hashalen dada.
APNI bolchen ekotha'r kotha? Apni tho professional cummunal-hatred
spreader.
Supratik Das
> Supratik Das wrote:
> > Joy bangali ekotar joy.
Agye kothai communal hatred spread korlam ta jodi bolen bujhte pari. Amar
khub kom posti Islam ba Muslim somporke. Amar post muloto Hindu
communityke niye ebong tader problem niye. Bangladeshe amra karone
akorone mar khai. Sei somporke Hinduder socheton kori. Amar kono poste jodi
dekhate paren Hinduder Muslimer pechone lagte bolechi tahole apnar
allegation mene nebo. Tobe han ami Hinduder nijeder odhikar somporke
socheton kori. Seta jodi apnar communal mone hoi kichu korar neyi. Aar
hah, ekhane kichu self-appointed monshobdar achen WB theke jara bhaben
tara sob bujhe phelechen. Tader kapor dhore majhey modhey tana tani kori.
Aar ami communalo noi fundmentalisto noi. Jedin bolben apnader mosjide
giye prarthona korbo, apnader sathe goru khabo, ityadi. Apnara ki parben
amar songe kali bari jete??
Tai amake professional communal-hatred spreader na bole professional
community awareness spreader bolle sothik hobe.
Supratik
Nibir Kanti Datta
Naeem wrote:
*The number of BD authors that DESH/ANONDOBAJAR has published in last 2
decades is tiny. This is a stat.
*The penetration of BD books in general WB market is also small. This
is also small. This is a stat. The counter-anecdotes that people are
giving of Calcutta book-fair are not representative of actual sales in
open market.
*The number of WB authors [esp Shunil and others] sold in BD open market
is huge. This is a stat.
Therefore, BD appreciates WB's cultural offerings, but WB does not
reciprocate to equal degree.
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
I am assuming that Naeem's stats are correct. However, the conclusion
need not be correct. A book-lover does not necessarily allow the
inclination of his nose to determine the books he reads. But he might be
inclined to go for the inferior book of an author he is acquainted with
than to try out the superior book of an author that he hasn't heard of.
22 years ago, I came across a novel, "Nandita Narak" by an author I
hadn't heard of. But the author was the friend of a friend. And that was
enough incentive for me to read it. And I am glad I did because I really
liked it. Eversince, I have gone out of my way to read his books though
they haven't always given me the same pleasure that "Nandita Narak" had
given me. And I am not in the least surprised to learn that HA is now
the author of numerous best-sellers in Bangladesh.
If the success of a book was baseded on merit alone, Naeem would not
have been able to cite his stats. But I do believe that the "nose
factor" isn't the only or even the primary cause. I can think of at
least two other plausible reasons:
(1) The publishers in West Bengal are not keen on making it easy for
their competitors from Bangladesh.
(2) The publishers from Bangladesh are so satisfied with the status quo
that they are not willing to invest the time and the money to appeal
directly to the readers in West Bengal over the head of Indian
publishers.
In either case it is a loss for the reader in West Bengal.
T.H.Sanyal.
In article <326FF4...@hbo.com>, Naeem Mohaiemen <naeem.m...@hbo.com>
says:
>Therefore, BD appreciates WB's cultural offerings, but WB does not
>reciprocate to equal degree.
I have a feeling that this is more a Calcutta/Mofussil thing rather
than a WB/BD thing. The problem exists because there is no other major
urban center in WB.
ths.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Supratik Das wrote:
>
> Tai amake professional communal-hatred spreader na bole professional
> community awareness spreader bolle sothik hobe.
>
> Supratik
Taholey apni "professional" ?
Shoumyo.
Supratik Das
On Sat, 26 Oct 1996, Shoumyo Dasgupta wrote:
> Supratik Das wrote:
> > Tai amake professional communal-hatred spreader na bole professional
> > community awareness spreader bolle sothik hobe.
> Taholey apni "professional" ?
Ami jani apnader 'CPI(M)' er banglay 'professional' is a dirty word,
kintu ei markin muluke the term is used to determine the capability of
the person in what he/she does, i.e. his/her efficiency, dedication, etc.
In that respect I am professional. If by 'professional' that's what you
are implying then I am 'professional' but if you are implying that I may
belong to some organization then I must say you are WRONG but smart try
anyway.
> Shoumyo.
Supratik
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Supratik Das wrote:
> Ami jani apnader 'CPI(M)' er banglay 'professional' is a dirty word,
++++++
Amader CPIM ? Shomogro Bangali jaat-key uddeshyo kore bolchchen naki ?
Tahole apnar-o CPIM ? Naki 'apnader' shoddota aro brihoth kono
porichoyer ontorgoto ?
Ami to byektigoto-bhabe CPIM-birodhi. Apni ?
>
> kintu ei markin muluke the term is used to determine the capability of
> the person in what he/she does, i.e. his/her efficiency, dedication, >etc.
Capability ar efficiency je apnar nei sheta to porishkar. Karon
awareness spread kortye giye bangla bajare dhuti khule phelchchen
barbar.
Tobey dedication to nishchoi aachchey dekhtey pachchi.
Shoumyo.
Supratik Das
On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, Shoumyo Dasgupta wrote:
> Ami to byektigoto-bhabe CPIM-birodhi. Apni ?
Ami ekhono kichu kichu socialist principlese biswas kori. Kintu je
panthagulo ekhon party korchey tader diye kisshu hobe na ta jani, karon ei
gulo ke kach theke dekhbar soubhagyo hoyeche. Aaar Congresser jonyo
bangalir eto durgoti, oi shalader ghrina kori (jodio amar Grandfather
Congress MP chilen). Aar baamponthi buddhijibira je prochur dhop maren seo
jani. Ei buddhijibi gulo holo shoitaner dim, thik nijer ta guchiye
nicchey odike economy jekhane chilo sekhanei achhey. Ta apni CPIM birodhi
manei je bam birodhi tato noi. Bakigulo oi ghuter epith aar opith. Oi
funda kopchano Bam Bangali dekhlei aajkal ga jole, mone hoi pechone koshe
ek lathi mari. Shalara kopchanite ostad kintu kajer bela ostorombha.
Shudhu lekchar mare aar baki gulo shooorer moton ghot ghot kore.
Beshirbhag tader ideology somporke kichui janena, sudhu dhanda baji. Aar
Congress to ekhon goru chagoler party, noito smuggler aar rapistder
party. Gandhi tupi chere ekhon lungi aar pipe gun dhorechey. Ei Bam aar
Cong dujonai bangalir shotru. Dutokei pendiye baar kora uchit WB theke.
> > kintu ei markin muluke the term is used to determine the capability of
> > the person in what he/she does, i.e. his/her efficiency, dedication, >etc.
> Capability ar efficiency je apnar nei sheta to porishkar. Karon
> awareness spread kortye giye bangla bajare dhuti khule phelchchen
> barbar.
Seta to apnar aar apnader bam ba Cong sangopangoder boktobyo. Amar dhuti
khule aar ki laab tobe ei shoytaner sisyora je Bangalir kapor chopor
khule niyechey se bishoye kono sondeho nei. Aar Bangali aware hole ki aar
dim bhaja kheye, gas tule Das Capital, Gandhian principle aar desh o
bishyo udhaar korte boshey. Amar dhuti khulte apnader ekhono deri achhey.
tobe chesta chaliye jan. Or cheye beshi apnader kichu hobe na.
> Tobey dedication to nishchoi aachchey dekhtey pachchi.
Ami oi minorityr modhey pori jara WB without Cong and Bam bhabte pare. Tobe
seeing people around me I think it maynot be far before we become a majority.
Totodin apnader asphalon chaliye jete paren.
> Shoumyo.
Supratik
Esha
Naeem wrote:
*The number of BD authors that DESH/ANONDOBAJAR has published in last 2
decades is tiny. This is a stat.
*The penetration of BD books in general WB market is also small. This
is also small. This is a stat. The counter-anecdotes that people are
giving of Calcutta book-fair are not representative of actual sales in
open market.
*The number of WB authors [esp Shunil and others] sold in BD open market
is huge. This is a stat.
Therefore, BD appreciates WB's cultural offerings, but WB does not
reciprocate to equal degree.
************************************************************************
************************************************************************
To account for Naeem's stats, I had, in an earlier posting, suggested
two plausible explanations:
(1) The publishers in West Bengal are not keen on making it easy for
their competitors from Bangladesh.
(2) The publishers from Bangladesh are so satisfied with the status quo
that they are not willing to invest the time and the money to appeal
directly to the readers in West Bengal over the head of Indian
publishers.
Udayan Chattopadhyay has responded to my posting with queries on
regulations that may stand in the way of book imports from Bangladesh
into West Bengal. He says that he knows it for a fact that import
regulations stand in the way of importing Bangladeshi movies and audio
cassettes. Udayan claims that it is such restrictions that force the
remake of Dhaka hits like "Beder Meye Jyotsna" in West Bengal.
I do not know if book imports into West Bengal are being restricted by
regulations. It should not in this day and age when we are talking of
free trade and economy, especially within the SARC nations. Furthermore,
Naeem very specifically claimed that books from West Bengal are freely
available in Bangladesh. I can think of two plausible explanations:
(a) India has had a longer brush with restrictions on free trade than
Bangladesh. As a result, Bangladesh might be having a more liberal
policy on book imports than West Bengal.
(b) Bangladesh is more advanced than West Bengal in the industry of
pirated books.
In either case, the reader in Bangladesh is having a wider choice of
books than his West Bengali counterpart. What can the readers in West
Bengal do to right the balance? Pirating Bangladeshi books is not the
answer because, besides being illegal, it would also be at the expense
of writers in Bangladesh. But West Bengali readers would indeed profit
if they speak out against regulations that may be restricting the import
of Bangladeshi books into West Bengal.
Shubu Mukherjee
>>>>> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961026204734.29833C-100000@post>, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> writes:
SD> Ami jani apnader 'CPI(M)' er banglay 'professional' is a dirty word,
SD> kintu ei markin muluke the term is used to determine the capability of
SD> the person in what he/she does, i.e. his/her efficiency, dedication, etc.
SD> In that respect I am professional. If by 'professional' that's what you
SD> are implying then I am 'professional' but if you are implying that I may
SD> belong to some organization then I must say you are WRONG but smart try
SD> anyway.
As far as I understand, that's not what professional means. A
professional tennis player, for example, earns his/her living by
playing tennis. Contrast this with an amateur tennis player, whose
profession is not playing tennis. Rajiv (babu?) can further clarify
this, I am sure. He is, after all, a software professional. :-)
-Shubu
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shubu Mukherjee University of Wisconsin-Madison, Computer Sciences
Nibir Kanti Datta
Chaitali Basu
Supratik Das (d...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
: seeing people around me I think it maynot be far before we become a majority.
Kon lokder dekhe atobado comment-ta korlen? Tara ki amar apnar moto ei
internet-e batela marchhe naaki kono shotti kaaj korchhe?
: Supratik
Chaitali
Supratik Das
> Supratik Das (d...@aecom.yu.edu) wrote:
I think 'to question' is a positive start in itself. I find that people
around me are questioning and many more are listening which is a positive
outcome. In Gandhian times and also during the early Communist movement
the leaders used to talk (like preaching) and the followers would take or
leave things as they wished. This is no more true with the educated
young. Some people are doing things in their own way, a careful look
around you will allow you to find them. Even if someone wants to make
money as a businessman (a dirty word once with Bengalies) he/she is
bringing some change, providing some jobs and hence contributing.
Internete batela marina, I let loose my pent up feelings, mostly against
defenders of the established order. I don't attempt to be nice to anyone.
As for doing some 'shotti kaaj' I feel I need to explain to myself only
what they are and how I intend to do it. Nijer nijer goals clear thakle
onye ki korchey tai niye bishesh matha ghamabar dorkar neyi.
I don't see any political movement in particular bringing about change
coz their aren't any in sight. Specially with Bengalies a mass based
movement is unlikely to do it coz even at their peak no one philosophy or
ideology dominated the minds of Bengalies at any period of history, not
even communism which is probably at its wierdest form only in WB. So if
you are talking about such movements I don't see any in the near future
but if you are talking about individual efforts they are taking place,
very slowly but with a clear direction, e.g. have you heard of Bindeswar
Prasad (I hope I am correct with the name) who started the Sulabh
Internationals. It provides santitation facilities very cheaply, which
is much needed with our urban and rural poor. He is Gandhian though and
isn't talking huge theories like our scb nettors but doing a very
important job nonetheless. I merely hope someday I'll be capable enough
to do something myself. Until then it is all talk.
> Chaitali
Supratik
Supratik Das
On Tue, 29 Oct 1996, Supratik Das wrote:
> very slowly but with a clear direction, e.g. have you heard of Bindeswar
> Prasad (I hope I am correct with the name) who started the Sulabh
Should be 'Pathak' not Prasad.
Supratik
Debashis Bhattacharya
>> >same -- and not simply ignore it, as you have been doing, so far.
>
.. deleted (out of necessity, since our server does not want messages that
have more included text than new ones) ...
>I will wait to see if other WBs will chime in w concrete examples of BD
>also having nashika-roag about WB. I will certainly think twice about
>my previous response if I see a lot of people describing experiences
>that paralleled the examples I gave.
Will be a most interesting study. Let's see what happens. At the same time,
it will be very interesting if anyone can provide some stats about the degree
of intermixing among BD and WB populations, esp. outside India. That is also an
important factor.
>
>I.e.
>
>*The number of BD authors that DESH/ANONDOBAJAR has published in last 2
>decades is tiny. This is a stat.
>*The penetration of BD books in general WB market is also small. This
>is also small. This is a stat. The counter-anecdotes that people are
>giving of Calcutta book-fair are not representative of actual sales in
>open market.
>*The number of WB authors [esp Shunil and others] sold in BD open market
>is huge. This is a stat.
While there is no concret "stat" above, I will agree that these are well-known
facts, and acceptable even without hard numbers.
>
>Therefore, BD appreciates WB's cultural offerings, but WB does not
>reciprocate to equal degree.
Not to the same degree, perhaps. On the other hand, that lack of reciprocation
may not be solely due to "nasika rog". May be the flow has been asymmetric
simply due to historical reasons, which have not been smoothed out, yet.
So, how do we increase the degree of reciprocity?
ageo ekta suggestion diyechhilam -- je joint sahityo sabha kara jaak, ekta
(hopefully, proti bachhor, if there is sufficient interest). bango sammelan ta
to more of "haat"; bangladesh sammelan ta sunechhi kachhakachhi, jodio jete
parini kakhono (bango sammelen-eo gechhi dubar, so far, ebong aar jabo na mone
hoi). barong, jodi anek "chhoto scale-e", dui desher sahityik-der eksathe jaRo
kore, tNader most recent lekha shonar ekta sujog gh-a-te, to khub interest niye
jabo taate.
korun na ekta organize. gNater koRi kharoch kore shunte asbo nischoi.
>
>Now, can you offer STATISTICS to counter this hypothesis?
>
.. deleted ...
amar prostab to rekhechhi.
Debashis.
Debashis Bhattacharya
.. deleted ...
>
>
>Debashish,
>I don't know what you are really gonna establish by inflicting
>'palta' accusations. Why don't you address the issues raised by my
>original postings first before you expect the same from us?
>
Well, what can we gain by saying "WB-er lok-der nasika rog achhe?" Not much, as
far as I can see. When I point that out (and some anecdotes to show that rog-ta
ektarfa noi), I get silence (up until now). What am I supposed to infer from
that?
>And I don't know how many WB feel that there is a need for a dialogue.
>Because the lack of that type of thoughts was precisely what I was
>pointing
>towards and since then nothing drastic really happened to change my
>mind.
>The whole purpose of the thread was to aware the Bangalies from WB
>that a change of attitude towards the Bangladeshi culture is needed on
>their
>part. In stead of being able grasp it, you brought on the point
>of communalism and other irrelvent matters.
Communalism is not irrelevant, IMHO. After all, nothing happens all by itself.
One has to search for causes, and communalism (as I have seen, openly
displayed) is not a factor that I can ignore, as a candidate for cause.
Additionally, your statement above ("to aware the Bengalis from WB that a
change of attitude ... is needed ... ") reeks of a very high-handed attitude on
your part, to begin with.
What is it that you really think? That people from WB and BD need to work
harder to understand each other (I suspect BD people WB people just as much as
WB people do not understand BD people), or "fatwa jaari" je "WB-ke amader katha
bhabte habe!"?
If the attitude is the latter -- as your mail shows, I believe -- then, I'm
afraid, there is no hope.
>
>So see my original posting and retrospect. If most of your pals from
>WB feels that way, then try to change it.
>Like Shoymmo said there is no point throwing accusation-counter
>accusations to
>one another. If what I said in my "nasika roag" post is
>untrue or baseless then I will be the happiest person. So please
>do not try to find ulterior motives behind it because there wasn't any.
>
Hope not. However, again, you point your finger solely at WB, and command us to
change it. What are you going to do, to help bring about that change? Or, is it
only up to the people of WB to bring about this change? You are completely,
totally, absolutely silent on that issue. I guess, the "nasika rog" on your
part is showing through, once again.
>Asif
.. deleted ...
>Asif Saleh
>
>http://www4.ncsu.edu/~asaleh/WWW/
Debashis.
Supratik Das
On 29 Oct 1996, Chaitali Basu wrote:
> Kon lokder dekhe atobado comment-ta korlen? Tara ki amar apnar moto ei
> internet-e batela marchhe naaki kono shotti kaaj korchhe?
In response to Chaitalidevi's question I present the following news item:
#3 His stream of consciousness
By Sylvia Gomes - The Statesman - 12 October 1996
Krishna first came to know of him as a child in Hazaribagh. The second
youngest child in a family of seven siblings, she was closer to her mother,
Malina, than her disciplinarian businessman father and would follow her
mother everywhere, even to the thakurghar.
"There, surrounded by the other deities Ma used to worship, I saw this
picture of a tall, turbanned, saffron-clad young man", Krishna Dutta
reminisces. "He was definitely as much a human being of flesh and blood as
we are. Then what was he doing in this pantheon of immortals? `I worship
him', my mother explained to me, `because of whom he worshipped - human
beings - illiterate, famished and without a stitch on their backs or a roof
over their heads. But nevertheless, to him they were the living god'."
The man in the picture was Swami Vivekananda, who would become Krishna and
her younger sister Bemi's ideal - their inspiration in an obsessive
enterprise following in Swamijis footsteps. Today, from the small house in
Hazaribag, the picture loving graces a smaller house on Keyatala Road in
Calcutta, the office of Vivek Chetana or Vivekananda Consciousness.
There are countless NGOs and social organizations working to alleviate the
woes of suffering humanity. So what makes Vivek Chetana different from them
all? And why rope in Vivekananda's name? Krishna Dutta explains: "It is
because of the things he did, the things he said. We don't want to merely
help someone in distress, we want to reach the source of his pain and share
his grief. Consider an everyday incident. The police are out on an eviction
drive and drag away a rickshawallah to the police station. There is no
one to
realize that the man's family will not get a morsel to eat if he is not
around to earn it. All it needs is a mere Rs 150. And the ability to care.
If I feel the man is by brother, his starving children are the flesh of my
flesh, how can I not rush to their aid? This is what Vivekananda had
preached and his words are even more relevant today."
Pintu is three, Jyoti five and Vimla seven. They did not know which time of
the day it was, let along the day and the month. They could only understand
Sundays as the shops were closed then and the number of pedestrians less,
which meant less alms for them and less food. And the only time of the day
they looked forward to were the evenings when their ragpicker parents lit
tiny chullahs on the pavement of Tollygunge police station to cook their only
meal of the day.
But now they can identify another time and two more days. The time is
afternoon, 4 p.m. to 5-30 p.m. This is when they troop to the pavement of the
nearby Nava Nalanda School for their classes. The new days in their
vocabulary are Wednesdays and Saturdays when much to their grief, there are
no classes.
The teachers are volunteers at Vivek Chetana, who teach the pavement children
the three basic Rs and then, once study is over, songs and dances. The
children have rollicking time but not so the volunteers, who become the
cynosure of passerby. "If the pedestrian is a gentleman, he merely stands
and stares for a while", Krishna explains, "if he is worse, then there are
catcalls and obscene gestures. Often, there is resistance from the local who
have been using the street children for manual labour and do not want to lose
them. then there are threats and unpleasantness". But the women remember
Vivekananda's advice not to lose heart, even in the face of insurmountable
difficulties and plod on. Today, their determination has pain off in the
form of several projects.
Apart from Hope, the classes for street children, there is Vidyavihar, where
every year 30-35 children between six and 16 receive free education,
textbooks and new clothes during the Pujas. The glee of the children when
they get new clothes is surpassed by the glee of the teachers when some of
their students get first division in the Madhyamik Examination.
Then there is Sahayog, a non-formal education centre started in an urban slum
at Manoharpukur Road where about 80 families are provided with vocational
training in tailoring and embroidery, and Aarte Sangi, the companion of the
distressed, whose forte is providing preliminary nursing and home care to the
sick and senior citizens.
Emboldened by the response in the city, Vivek Chetana decided to extend its
services to the villages. It continues its literacy drive in Madsar village
in south 24-Parganas, helped by the Illinois-based Indian Literacy project.
In an area that is yet to become acquainted with electricity and rocked by
drinking water scarcity, 40 children are being given pre-school education.
Side by side, the women of the village, hitherto abused by their husbands and
written off by the parents or in-laws in the case of widowhood, are being
taught their rights. "Vivekananda saw society as a bird. Men were one wing
and women another," says Krishna. "We are trying to inform the women about
their right to property, to have a say in family decisions and in having
children".
There is a second project, Prerana, or Inspiration, funded by the
Illinois-based Virginia Gliderstere International Fund for Universal Women
Inc, working in six villages in two phases. Vivek Chetana puts emphasis on
making villagers self-sufficient. Several families are helped to set up a
small poultry and women taught to take case of the money they earn. the work
is most encouraging, say volunteers, in collaboration with the centre for the
orthopaedically handicapped whose inmates, after receiving vocational
training, begin to make an earning.
Vivek Chetana has more projects on its anvil. As the former chief librarian
of Jadavpur University, who shrinks from any publicity for herself, says, "We
started with eight members and today there 28 paid staffers alone. We want
to do something. And we are trying to do it our way."
Naeem Mohaiemen
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> ageo ekta suggestion diyechhilam -- je joint sahityo sabha kara jaak
I urge all to get involved in JUKTHAKKHOR magazine
> (hopefully, proti bachhor, if there is sufficient interest). bango sammelan ta
> to more of "haat"
Good idea
Khorshed Mohammad
Sorry for the intrusion. But I would like to add a few words here. I think
the whole argument is pointless if we, like Mr. Debashis et al, don't want
to recognize the problem itself. The problem is very much there and it is
a much talked about one. But instead of brooding over it and being
defensive or offensive, whichever is applicable, I think we should try to
understand the root of the problem. For the people of West Bengal it has a
historical reason as they were never used to such a thing called 'Arts and
Culture' in the Bengali Muslim community. But in last fifty years i.e.
after the partition things have changed very rapidly and mostly unnoticed
by the people of WB. Bengali language and Bengali culture is no longer
their sole propriety. Bangladesh, a new independent nation, whose state
language is Bangla, can at present boast a thriving literature, powerful
group theater movement, great accomplishment in music, dance and painting
of its own.
Now if WB doesn't want to recognize it, then it is not because
of their superiority complex i.e. Naasikaa rog but simply because of their
utter ignorance. Frankly right now nothing much left in WB to feel
superior about, except a few cultural icons like writer Debesh Ray,
composer Suman Chattopadhyaya, poet Joy Goswami, actor Goutam Halder,
painter Ganesh PaiN etc and most notably their very vibrant little
magazine movement. The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
soon when the horse itself will come to water. In the mean time please
shake off your inferiority complex and stop looking up to WB for their
recognition. And behold, don't catch the virus of Naasikaa rog yourself.
Debashis Bhattacharya (bhattach) wrote:
: .. deleted ...
: >Asif
: .. deleted ...
: >Asif Saleh
: >
: >http://www4.ncsu.edu/~asaleh/WWW/
: Debashis.
--
Alam Khorshed
522-550 Cottonwood Av.
Coquitlam, B.C. V3J 2S1 Canada
e-mail: kmoh...@sfu.ca Phone: (604) 931-2167
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Debashis Bhattacharya (bhattach) wrote:
: Let's face it: there is Nasika rog on both sides, for whatever reasons.
: However, just harping on that point, over and over again, is not going to lead
: to any meaningful change. Instead, let's try to do certain things together --
: after all, talking, and working together is the best way to get over such
: "rog"!
I support your above paragraph.
: I have made this proposal for the 4th-5th time, by now. So far, I have
heard : tiny bit of support from WBi's (2 persons!), and even less support
from BDi's : (1 person, viz., Naeem). Do we need more proof of the
existence of Nasika rog : on both sides?
Your above paragraph is somewhat faulty because the statistics is based on
selective sampling. I, for example, did not express my opinion because of
a lack of time. However, the need of the
hour is for the Bengalis on both sides of the border to understand each
and learn from the mistakes of our past generation, not retributing blame.
Best regards and happy bijoya to all
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Debashis Bhattacharya wrote:
> Naeem:
>
> People like Khorsed clearly do not help the cause
> of extending mutual recognition.
Well, Debashish, you are basing your judgment on Alam Khorshed solely on
this post, which, IMHO, is unjust to him.
Alam Khorshed is, to my knowledge, one of the most pro-active,
knowledgeable, responsible, and liberal Bangalis, and given his
exposure, is the right person to make such a comment.
I totally agree with what he is saying. I don't know Debashish-babu, if
you have been to Bangladesh, or if you know any Bangladeshis closely.
I have been there (well, my exposure has been limited to literary
circles in BD). Additionally, I live with them here in the U.S. in a
small graduate family housing community. I have had the fortune of
observing both communities closely, for an extended period of time.
In that capacity, let me inform you that Alam WAS one of the founding
members and guiding lights of "bridging the gap" movement, and continues
to work wholeheartedly in that direction. He is fully aware of WHAT
percentage of WB'is are aware of the cultural scenario in Bangladesh.
Please refrain from passing a judgment on someone who you barely know.
What Alam is saying is true. We have been working together for years to
bridge the gap that you are screaming about in scb. He is making the
comment with a lot of agony (shared by me too)...
An agony that we share AFTER having WORKED ON THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS.
>As I have pointed out through various examples
> in past post, there are plenty of people among the "intelligensia" in >WB, who
> are very cognizant of the developments in BD.
>
I do not subscribe to this statement. One Annadashankar and one
Sibnarayn Roy don't make much of a difference.
> However, this utterly ludicrous attitude as very explicitly shown in
> which is based on a combination of ignorance of what goes on in WB, and >a major
> attitude problem, merely leads to inflamed passions on all sides. >Moreover, the
> obvious role of communalism (as I have said in earlier mails as well) >shows
> through clearly in
>
Please read my reply above.
>
> Let's face it: there is Nasika rog on both sides, for whatever reasons.
True.
> However, just harping on that point, over and over again, is not going to lead
> to any meaningful change. Instead, let's try to do certain things together --
> after all, talking, and working together is the best way to get over such
> "rog"!
I haven't heard a suggested "path" of cooperation from YOU yet,
Debashish-babu!
Naeem have been pointing out since day one about projects like
Juktakhkhar. Both Alam and Naeem have contributed to it. Alam has gone
to Calcutta and helped the editorial board form a schedule and program
of getting the right articles from the right people in Bangladesh.
What have you done, except constantly throwing fits at Bangladeshis ?
Regards,
Shoumyo.
K.M. Maniruzzaman
In article <546oae$5...@cauldron.spdc.ti.com>, Debashis Bhattacharya
<bhattach> wrote:
>
> In course of this heated debate, one BD muslim gentleman (his religion is
> important here) suddenly said that "even if you have two separate
celebrations,
> the muslims will not come to the celebration meant for Id!" Naturally, a storm
> of questions followed, and that's when we found out that the Bangladeshi
> muslims, at least according to this gentleman (who was president of Parichoy,
> the year before this debate took place), simply would not and could not think
> of having a get-together with non-muslims to commemorate Id!!
>
> Now, tell me, whose side is missing something?
Here we celebrate Eid every year. In the morning the Muslims go to an Eidgah
to offer Eid prayers. Hindus do not accompany them, though there is no bar
on their going to the prayer ground and watch the proceedings. Afterwards
we have a social, secular Eid get-together participated by Hindus on an
equal footing. This, however, is organised by and for the Bangladeshi
community, and we have no participation from the the couple of W. Bengalis
residents in our housing estate.
I, for one, wouldn't mind joining Hindus in the non-religious part
of Puja celebrations. But in Tokyo, that is organised by the Indian
community, and I never get invited. I'm not sure whether BD Hindus
participate.
--
Manir
ma...@okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp
ma...@asami.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp
URL: http://okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/okabelab/manir/manir.html
=====================================================================
"The rich get richer, the poor get children" -- G.B. Shaw
Debashis Bhattacharya
Naeem:
I hope this post gives you yet another example of the existence of Nasika rog
on both sides of the border. People like Khorsed clearly do not help the cause
of extending mutual recognition. As I have pointed out through various examples
in past post, there are plenty of people among the "intelligensia" in WB, who
are very cognizant of the developments in BD.
However, this utterly ludicrous attitude as very explicitly shown in
"The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
soon when the horse itself will come to water. In the mean time please
shake off your inferiority complex and stop looking up to WB for their
recognition."
which is based on a combination of ignorance of what goes on in WB, and a major
attitude problem, merely leads to inflamed passions on all sides. Moreover, the
obvious role of communalism (as I have said in earlier mails as well) shows
through clearly in
"For the people of West Bengal it has a
historical reason as they were never used to such a thing called 'Arts and
Culture' in the Bengali Muslim community. But in last fifty years i.e.
after the partition things have changed very rapidly and mostly unnoticed
by the people of WB. Bengali language and Bengali culture is no longer
their sole propriety. "
Thus, my claims, as far as I can see, are only being substantiated by BDi's
like Khorsed, who care to open their mouth. The rest keeps mum -- makes me
wonder!
Let's face it: there is Nasika rog on both sides, for whatever reasons.
However, just harping on that point, over and over again, is not going to lead
to any meaningful change. Instead, let's try to do certain things together --
after all, talking, and working together is the best way to get over such
"rog"!
I have made this proposal for the 4th-5th time, by now. So far, I have heard
tiny bit of support from WBi's (2 persons!), and even less support from BDi's
(1 person, viz., Naeem). Do we need more proof of the existence of Nasika rog
on both sides?
Debashis.
Dipen Bhattacharya
Khorshed Mohammad wrote:
> Now if WB doesn't want to recognize it, then it is not because
> of their superiority complex i.e. Naasikaa rog but simply because of their
> utter ignorance. Frankly right now nothing much left in WB to feel
> superior about, except a few cultural icons like writer Debesh Ray,
> composer Suman Chattopadhyaya, poet Joy Goswami, actor Goutam Halder,
> painter Ganesh PaiN etc and most notably their very vibrant little
> magazine movement. The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
> the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
> indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
> and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
> soon when the horse itself will come to water. In the mean time please
> shake off your inferiority complex and stop looking up to WB for their
> recognition. And behold, don't catch the virus of Naasikaa rog yourself.
>
Yes, the Hindi onslaught is tremendous. Calcutta TV does not have any
Bengali program after 8:30 pm - there is Bengali program, but
you have to switch to cable (DD7). Obviously, not many have cable.
And yes, the horse will eventually come to water.
But before that Bangladesh has to feel that she is the icon bearer.
Anondo Publishers now print Imdadul Haque Milon. Shamsur Rahman, Rafiq
Azad, etc. are routinely featured in Desh, last year Humayun Ahmed
had a piece in one of the Puja issues and this year even Daud Haider
has his story of Calcutta living in English Statesman. Cassettes of
Rezwana Chowdhury, Mita Haque, Runa Laila, etc. are officially produced
in West Bengal. Shamsur Rahman, Anisuzzaman, Akhtaruzzaman Ilyas,
Taslima Nasreen, etc. were given awards from Calcutta establishments.
One can question the motivation of such awards or the sincerity of
Anondo Publishers, but all the above gives the notion that Calcutta
is still maintaining its role as the recognition center.
Why not Bangla Academy or such institution gives out awards to Indian
Bengali working in the field ? If Bichitra prints Sunil Ganguly or
Abul Bashar in its Id issue eventually Dhaka magazines may become
the coveted place to publish. To become the icon bearer one has to
show the capability for absorption, diversification and distributing
rewards.
But to do all this you also need a serious reader/critic base. But
for modern day Bangladesh there is no time for that. The middle class,
who is going to all this, is imbued with the free market mania - trying
to cash in the unbridled stock market (which may crash anyday) or
signing up in the booming labor market of south east asia. The
priorities are just different (and rightly so) for the time being.
And hence, for a fast time we have only fast writers like Humayn Ahmed.
I gave a book by Mahmudul Haque to a friend and commented that he
was the strongest writer of Bangladesh. She was utterly confused - she
reads Humayn Ahmed a lot, but has never heard of Mahmudul Haque.
Dipen Bhattacharjo
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Shoumyo Dasgupta (txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu) wrote:
: One good incentive for forgetting religious affiliations is food,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: bondhu!
Bibekananda onek din ageyi bolechillen je Khali Pete Dharma Hoi Na!
Lokkho korle dekhbe je sob dharmer porob gulotei khaoa daoar ekta birat
byapar thake- jemon
-Hindur Durga Puja
-Musalmaner Id
-Christianer Christmas
--
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
Shoumyo Dasgupta
K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
> I, for one, wouldn't mind joining Hindus in the non-religious part
> of Puja celebrations. But in Tokyo, that is organised by the Indian
> community, and I never get invited. I'm not sure whether BD Hindus
> participate.
>
>
Here in this small campus-towb of STate College, Bangladeshi as well as
Indian WBi Muslims join us in Saraswati Puja.
And, in Id, Uffff... what biriyani we have here!!!
One good incentive for forgetting religious affiliations is food,
bondhu!
Shoumyo.
highgate
In article <327B4F...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu>, Shoumyo Dasgupta
<txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu> writes
--
highgate
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya wrote:
> Bibekananda onek din ageyi bolechillen je Khali Pete Dharma Hoi Na!
>
Ramkrishna. B'nanda noy.
(R.K. Mission-er b'wash...) :)
Shoumyo.
sayan bhattacharyya
Dipen Bhattacharya <di...@tigre.ucr.edu> wrote:
>> The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
>> the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
>> indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
>> and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
>> soon when the horse itself will come to water.
But if Bengali language and culture gets completely destroyed in West
Bengal, the "horse" will be dead! So the question of its coming to
water will not even arise. In other words, assuming people of West Bengal
lose their Bengali cultural heritage (as you suggest), then what incentive
will they have for reading Bengali at all? So rather than read Bangladeshi
literature or partake of culture produced in Bangladesh (which would be
in Bengali), wouldn't they be more likely to seek out cultural sources
in Hindi instead?
I don't follow the logic behind your reasoning.
>But to do all this you also need a serious reader/critic base. But
>for modern day Bangladesh there is no time for that. The middle class,
>who is going to all this, is imbued with the free market mania - trying
>to cash in the unbridled stock market (which may crash anyday) or
>signing up in the booming labor market of south east asia. The
>priorities are just different (and rightly so) for the time being.
Can you explain the phrase "rightly so" for me? Why do you think
that this is desirable?
Khorshed Mohammad
<55bet6$h...@morgoth.sfu.ca> <327A62...@tigre.ucr.edu>:
Distribution:
Dipen Bhattacharya (di...@tigre.ucr.edu) wrote:
: Khorshed Mohammad wrote:
: > Now if WB doesn't want to recognize it, then it is not because
: > of their superiority complex i.e. Naasikaa rog but simply because of their
: > utter ignorance. Frankly right now nothing much left in WB to feel
: > superior about, except a few cultural icons like writer Debesh Ray,
: > composer Suman Chattopadhyaya, poet Joy Goswami, actor Goutam Halder,
: > painter Ganesh PaiN etc and most notably their very vibrant little
: > magazine movement. The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
: > the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
: > indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
: > and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
: > soon when the horse itself will come to water. In the mean time please
: > shake off your inferiority complex and stop looking up to WB for their
: > recognition. And behold, don't catch the virus of Naasika rog
yourself.
: Why not Bangla Academy or such institution gives out awards to Indian
: Bengali working in the field ?
Yes, this could be a very important step toward being, as you told, an
'Icon bearer.'
If Bichitra prints Sunil Ganguly or
: Abul Bashar in its Id issue eventually Dhaka magazines may become
: the coveted place to publish. To become the icon bearer one has to
: show the capability for absorption, diversification and distributing
: rewards.
For your information, this is being done right from the emergence of
Bangladesh. Writers like Sunil, Shyamol, Siraj et al have been routinely
published in BD press. In fact Mahashweta Devi's famous fiction 'ChoTTi
MunDaa o taar teer' was first printed in an Id issue of, guess what, the
very magazine you mentioned,'Weekly Bichitra'. Just a few months ago I
have read a remarkable short story by WB's one of the most talented young
writers Abhijit Sen in a Bangladeshi magazine. A magazine named
'Jibananda' is regularly published from BD whose declared goal is to
publish WB writers in an equal measure, a dream it has not compromised
with so far.
: And hence, for a fast time we have only fast writers like Humayn Ahmed.
: I gave a book by Mahmudul Haque to a friend and commented that he
: was the strongest writer of Bangladesh. She was utterly confused - she
: reads Humayn Ahmed a lot, but has never heard of Mahmudul Haque.
This is another problem BD intelligentia has to live with. WB press,
particularly the infamous Ananda Publishers, mostly promote the
second rate writers like Imdad and Humayun, understandably for their
financial gain, but in doing so it clearly does a dis-service to us by
prtraying a picture of BD literature which is bound to be not so
respectable in the eyes of WB's genuine readers. And in the case of
youngsters like Daud and Taslima, there is always an ulterior motive
which is equally misleading and dangerous. So writers like Mahmudul Huq,
Selina Hussen, Farhad Mazhar and Shahidul Jahir are destined to remain
unknown and obscure in the bigger literary arena of WB, until the movement
launched by 'Juktakshhar' patrika gains enough momentum.
: Dipen Bhattacharjo
Dipen Bhattacharya
Sayan,
You confused two different postings and amalgamated them into one.
sayan bhattacharyya wrote:
>
> Dipen Bhattacharya <di...@tigre.ucr.edu> wrote:
>
> >> The destruction of the Bengali language and culture in
> >> the Hindi onslaught is nearly complete. IMHO I think the more they remain
> >> indifferent and ignorant about their Bangladeshi counterpart the more loss
> >> and grief they will sustain. So don't get impatient Asif, time will arrive
> >> soon when the horse itself will come to water.
I did not write the above paragraph, actually my posting was
a follow-up to the above posting.
>
> But if Bengali language and culture gets completely destroyed in West
> Bengal, the "horse" will be dead! So the question of its coming to
> water will not even arise. In other words, assuming people of West Bengal
> lose their Bengali cultural heritage (as you suggest), then what incentive
> will they have for reading Bengali at all? So rather than read Bangladeshi
> literature or partake of culture produced in Bangladesh (which would be
> in Bengali), wouldn't they be more likely to seek out cultural sources
> in Hindi instead?
>
> I don't follow the logic behind your reasoning.
I did write the following part.
> >But to do all this you also need a serious reader/critic base. But
> >for modern day Bangladesh there is no time for that. The middle class,
> >who is going to all this, is imbued with the free market mania - trying
> >to cash in the unbridled stock market (which may crash anyday) or
> >signing up in the booming labor market of south east asia. The
> >priorities are just different (and rightly so) for the time being.
>
> Can you explain the phrase "rightly so" for me? Why do you think
> that this is desirable?
What I wanted to say is that even with a major Hindi
onslaught West Bengal had managed to retain a serious reader/critic
base. Bangladesh has not managed that yet (otherwise we would not
be stuck with one and the only Humayn Ahmed for so long). Calcutta
has a solid middle class which Dhaka lacks. It is possible that
this middle class is just in the process of emerging. Take the
"rightly so" with a pinch of salt, it may not be entirely desirable,
but maybe I should say the "big push" for surviving and surving well
is not entirely undesirable.
Or maybe we are emphasizing this cultural stuff too much. Maybe
the path of Dhaka is more like the path of Kuala Lampur. Work, invest,
jump on the technology wagon and we will think about the culture later
(whereas Calcutta is captive to middle class mentality and hesitating
all the time). The soul will die without the culture?...Nahh!!
Dipen Bhattacharjo
p.s.
You are right in saying West Bengal can derive cultural resources from
other states in India (and it does not have to Hindi only). Bangladesh
does lack that type of resource, hence it is possible that her cultural
development is one dimensional. But there are many countries in the
world which are mono-linguist and small. Do we think their cultural
development is retarded? No. I see, in future, Dhaka and
Calcutta complementing each other, trying to make up for the
individual deficits and gaining access to other's experience.
K.M. Maniruzzaman
In article <327B4F...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu>,
txd...@silmaril.smeal.psu.edu wrote:
> K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
>
> > I, for one, wouldn't mind joining Hindus in the non-religious part
> > of Puja celebrations. But in Tokyo, that is organised by the Indian
> > community, and I never get invited. I'm not sure whether BD Hindus
> > participate.
> >
> >
>
> Here in this small campus-towb of STate College, Bangladeshi as well as
> Indian WBi Muslims join us in Saraswati Puja.
>
> And, in Id, Uffff... what biriyani we have here!!!
>
> One good incentive for forgetting religious affiliations is food,
> bondhu!
>
> Shoumyo.
Here in Tokyo we had formed a Rasana Bilash Chakra, and we used to
have monthly meetings with food prepared by our bhabis and boudis.
Any Bengali regardless of religion or nationality was welcome to
join. A Bengali was defined as anyone who speaks the language,
has worn either a sari or a lungi at least once in her/his life,
engaged in factional politics at some point in her/his life etc.
highgate
In article <manir-05119...@cognition.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp>, "K.M.
Maniruzzaman" <ma...@okabe.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp> writes
>Here in Tokyo we had formed a Rasana Bilash Chakra, and we used to
>have monthly meetings with food prepared by our bhabis and boudis.
>Any Bengali regardless of religion or nationality was welcome to
>join. A Bengali was defined as anyone who speaks the language,
>has worn either a sari or a lungi at least once in her/his life,
>engaged in factional politics at some point in her/his life etc.
>
Bengalis after fortifying their stomach with good food can take
factional politics to unimaginable heights.
And what else do you guys do? Do you have any lungi parties?
--
highgate
Supratik Das
On 5 Nov 1996, K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
> join. A Bengali was defined as anyone who speaks the language,
> has worn either a sari or a lungi at least once in her/his life,
> engaged in factional politics at some point in her/his life etc.
What happened to the dhuti which is more Bengali than the lungi which
must have come from outside (Punjabis wear the lungi, maybe the Khans
brought it with them to Bengal).
Supratik
Naeem Mohaiemen
Dhoor mia Supratic! To quote Dhaka'r ekta masthan: "Geli, naki nyangta
police dakum!"
Thumi MJ+BJP ke defend kore ja likhecho, tharpor mone korecho amra
thomake ar seriously nibo?
Give it up, all pretensions to be neutral debater are gone...
Heh, heh, to quote myself, "thomake pattha debo na". :-)
"ghughu dekhecho
fad dekho ni
ter ta pabe
aj ekhoni"
Supratik Das
On Wed, 6 Nov 1996, Naeem Mohaiemen wrote:
> Supratik Das wrote:
> > On 5 Nov 1996, K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
> > > join. A Bengali was defined as anyone who speaks the language,
> > > has worn either a sari or a lungi at least once in her/his life,
> > > engaged in factional politics at some point in her/his life etc.
> > What happened to the dhuti which is more Bengali than the lungi which
> > must have come from outside (Punjabis wear the lungi, maybe the Khans
> > brought it with them to Bengal).
> Dhoor mia Supratic! To quote Dhaka'r ekta masthan: "Geli, naki nyangta
> police dakum!"
'Naeem Chacha, samlan nijer kacha, nahole dekha jabe pacha'.
Apni bollen BJP fascist. Fascist party ki kore electione jite largest
party hoy. Tahole jara vote dilo tarao fascist. Fascist holo giye Shiv
Sena jara Mumbaite MJ showta arrange korechey, not BJP. Shiv Sena is
comparable to Jamaat Islami in tactics and rhetoric. The BJP is a kid
compared to them. Now why BJP is aligned to SS. I guess politics but I
don't like it.
> Thumi MJ+BJP ke defend kore ja likhecho, tharpor mone korecho amra
> thomake ar seriously nibo?
>
> Give it up, all pretensions to be neutral debater are gone...
>
> Heh, heh, to quote myself, "thomake pattha debo na". :-)
>
> "ghughu dekhecho
> fad dekho ni
> ter ta pabe
> aj ekhoni"
>
>
Supratik
Naeem Mohaiemen
Supratik Das wrote:
> 'Naeem Chacha, samlan nijer kacha, nahole dekha jabe pacha'.
kacha ajkal pori na, apnar BJP gang pache amake double-musolmani kore
dei..
> Apni bollen BJP fascist.
Yes.
>Fascist party ki kore electione jite largest party hoy.
Hitler o ELECTED leader chilen.
>Tahole jara vote dilo tarao fascist.
Yes, I mean hya.
> Shiv Sena is comparable to Jamaat Islami in tactics and rhetoric.
>The BJP is a kid compared to them.
And, therefore, BJP/SS is not fascist?
--
Naeem Mohaiemen
HBO Interactive Media
K.M. Maniruzzaman
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961105222937.14834D-100000@post>, Supratik Das
<d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
> On 5 Nov 1996, K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
>
> > join. A Bengali was defined as anyone who speaks the language,
> > has worn either a sari or a lungi at least once in her/his life,
> > engaged in factional politics at some point in her/his life etc.
>
>
> What happened to the dhuti which is more Bengali than the lungi which
> must have come from outside (Punjabis wear the lungi, maybe the Khans
> brought it with them to Bengal).
>
>
> Supratik
Shobbonash! Bhul hoye giyechhe. Chakrer manifesto shongshodhon kortam,
kintu mul uddoktara deshantar howay chakrati ekhon astitwa hin.
BTW, I don't know whether punjabis wear lungis, but it is more likely
that the apparel came to Bengal through Burma. The word lungi came
from Burmese.
isl...@paju.oulu.fi
(punjabis wear the lungi, maybe the Khans
Supratik
Re: Beautiful lies.Punjabis mostly wear pajamas not lungi.The burmese,
vutanese,malayis wear lungi.Bhutan,Burma are our close neighbours
than Pakistan.Dhuti is a dress of malaoon.It is not a muslim dress.
Anyway,forget about Bengal.We muslims prefer to call us Bangladeshis.
We don't consider our country to be Bengal anymore.Begal is a term
created by malaoons and their British Sirs.
Indranil Dasgupta
K.M. Maniruzzaman wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.961105222937.14834D-100000@post>, Supratik Das <d...@aecom.yu.edu> wrote:
> > What happened to the dhuti which is more Bengali than the lungi which
> > must have come from outside (Punjabis wear the lungi, maybe the Khans
> > brought it with them to Bengal).
> BTW, I don't know whether punjabis wear lungis, but it is more likely
> that the apparel came to Bengal through Burma. The word lungi came
> from Burmese.
Indeed, no self-respecting Jat would name his loin-cloth "lungi". It is
obvious to every child that if lungi came from Punjab it'd be called
"doongi".
On a different note, I think we should have a vote on whether Supratik
Das should pay to read scb. Rarely has someone received so much free
education on the net.
IDG.
Kousik Chakrabarti
Akte choto proshno jagache:
R.K.Mission er chalera ki Ramakrishna r kothe Vivekanada(so far as I
know the name is spelled everywhere as "Vivekanada" in English not
"Bibekanda")bole chalia dey?
Amra bhaktite godogodo batch er nam "Vivekananda" batch ditem mone
ache.Amader next junior year er nam tay chilo.
~Kousik.
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Kousik Chakrabarti wrote:
> Akte choto proshno jagache:
>
> R.K.Mission er chalera ki Ramakrishna r kothe Vivekanada(so far as I
> know the name is spelled everywhere as "Vivekanada" in English not
> "Bibekanda")bole chalia dey?
Na.