Use of English alphabet for Bengali writing
Sohail Hasnie
Dear All,
We have all used English alphabets to write Bengali expressions at times, I
want to raise the issue -
whether there is any value of developing a dictionary for such uses, so
that everybody uses the same English spelling.
This will have the following advantages.
(1) Second generation migrants who usually speaks Bengali but can not write
will be able to communicate with their Grand parents.
(2) use of Internet will be spread amongst the illiterate Bengalis (workers
in countries like Malaysia)
(3) If widespread use becomes prevalent, foreign investors and the like
will be able to 'read' some Bengali communications
It's past midnight ....can not think of others. But you know what I am
getting at?
Let's discuss this without crticism. Please. There must someone who is
working on this.
The Filipinos the Vietnamese, the Indonesians all use English alphabet. If
some people can still communicate without learning the Bengali alphabets,
let us give them a chance.
Chesta korte dosh ki.
Sohail
Australia
Hassan Alam
A phonetic, non-standard, language is better for us netters. The reason
being it will drive intelligence agencies trying to monitor
on-line conversations and profiling us absolutely nuts trying to
decipher it :).
Sohail Hasnie (SHa...@reggen.vic.gov.au) wrote:
: Dear All,
: Chesta korte dosh ki.
: Sohail
: Australia
--
Hassan Alam
Zunaid Kazi
While I may not concur with all the reasons you listed for using
Roman alphabets for Bangla transliteration over the net, it is important
that there is a common and widely accepted standard. To that end, I have
been working on such a scheme for a numbe rof years.
Point your browsers to
http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bangladesh/bd_trans.html
Comments and suggestions are welcome.
- Zunaid
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Zunaid Kazi, Ph.D. ka...@asel.udel.edu
AI, HCI and Robotics http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/
http://www.asel.udel.edu/~kazi/bangladesh/
AmarChaad
Several years ago, my mama sent me a 3 page, single spaced typed letter of
Bangla in Roman letters... I got a massive headache trying to read this
"Banglish" simply because of the different ways the same letters are
pronounced in the different language.
A standard set of spelling, at least for basics, would be wonderful!
Maimun
Joe H DeWAN
Dear Sohail,
I thought about it long time. I think this is a wonderful
idea. Better half of my life I lived outside Bangladesh. I
can't read and write Bengali that good anymore (I'm sorry
for that). Just to practice my Bengali I bought a software
several years ago. Unfortunately I can't use it. It is so
difficult to use. I was wondering why not someone make a
software that we can write in alphabets like you did at the
bottom. If I understand you correctly, you're talking about
using English (you may call it Latin) alphabets instead of
Bengali letters. I hope you understand what I'm talking. I'm
for both, using Latin alphabets for Bengali and for a software
that solely based on alphabets ( like: to write KOBITA we type
as it is K O B I T A and computer prints out kobita in Bengali).
Thank you.
Regards,
Joe
DRKHALID1
.............................and I thought I was the only one having
trouble reading and understanding "Banglish." Talk about headaches, once
it took me an hour figuring out "Banglish" posted in response to my
message on the SCB. I speak fluent Bengali however I have trouble reading
Bangla, due to circumstances beyond my control (I was raised outside of
Bangladesh), however, even if it takes an inordinate amount of time and
energy, I CAN read "Banglish."
So, I ask, when will be there formal and mainstream effort to introduce
this great leap, to get to the "next level of existence." God bless all
of us........till that day. Responses welcome.
Sohail Hasnie
Sohail Hasnie
Dear Dr. kazi,
It seems quite a number of people are interested in the concept. Can we now
develop a list of bengali words (say 500 commonly used words) and their
equivalent English alphabets.
I guess if we can form a small group of people and then take it from there.
Appreciate you comments on that.
Regrads
Sohail
Zunaid Kazi
In article <19970331223...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
For those who do not have access to the web, here's the transilteration
schema that I have proposed in the Bangladesh Home Pages.
Transliteration Schema
Vowel Sounds
a The o sound in god.
A The Aa sound in Aardvark.
e The ay sound in bay.
i The i sound in miss.
I Long e
o The o sound in go.
u The u sound in put.
U The oo sound in good.
ya The a sound in can.
oy The oy sound in coy
Consonant Sounds
k Unaspirated, as in the Bangla word for crow: kAk
kh [kh]aki
g [g]ood.
gh Aspirative g.
ch [Ch]ina.
chh Aspirative ch.
j
jh
T Unaspirated t. As in the Bangla word for sour: tak
Th Aspirative T.
D Unaspirated D. As in the Bangla word for egg: Dim
Dh Aspirative D.
N N [upper palate]
t Soft t. As in mexican tamale
th Aspirative t. As in [th]ink.
d Soft d. As in the french d in Alexandre Dumas.
dh Aspirative dh.
n n [Dental]
p
ph Aspirative p. Note: There is no f sound in Bangla.
b
bh Aspirative bh. Note: There is no v sound in Bangla.
m
r r. [Dental]
l
s s. [Dental]
sh sh. [Mid Palate]
Sh sh. [Back Palate]
h
R Gutterl R.
Others
(n) Nasal n.
ng As in Bengali
: Hard stop.
Example:
byartho prem by sunIl gangopAddhoy
protiTi bartho premi AmAke notun awhonkAr dae
Ami mAnush hishebe iktu lombA hoe uThi
du:kho AmAr mAthAr chool theke pAer Angul porjonto
chorie jAe
Ami shomosto mAnusher theke AlAdA hoe ak
awcena rAstA die dheere pAe
he(n)Te jAi
sharthok mAnushder Aro chai mukh AmAr shojho hae na
Ami pather kukurke biskuT kine dei
rickshawAlA ke dei sigareT
andho mAnusher shAdA laThi AmAr pAer kAche
khoshe pare
AmAr du hAt bhorti aDhel daeA, AmAke keu
firie diechhe bole goTA duniATAke
mone hae khub Apon
Ami bAri theke berui notun kAcha
pyant shArT pore
AmAr shoddo dAri kAmano nawrom mukh-khAnike
Ami nijei Ador kori
khoob gopone
Ami akjon porichonno mAnush
AmAr shorbAnge kothau
ektuo moilA nei
ahonkArer protibha jyotribaloy hoe thAke AmAr
mAthAr pichone
Ar keu dekhuk ki nAi dekhuk
Ami Thik Ter pAi
obhimAn AmAr oshThe ene dae snigdho hAsh-sho
Ami amon bhAbe pA pheli jeno mATir bukeo
AghAt nA lAge
AmAr to kAruke du:kho debAr kothA nei
Zunaid Kazi
In article <5hrd29$1v1$1...@dewey.udel.edu>,
Arup Sohel Khan <ak...@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu> wrote:
>In article <5hrc8b$1u7$1...@dewey.udel.edu>,
>Zunaid Kazi <ka...@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu> wrote:
>>
>>Transliteration Schema
>
>I notice widespread use of Capital and Lowercase letters differentiating
>between several Bangla vowels and consonants. What comparative advantage
>do we get from using these? Example:
>
> Why "Am" instead of "aam" for a Bangla mango?
>
>I don't have a better idea. Just curious.
>
>- Arup.
Good question. Maybe replacing the uppercase with doubles for vowels
might make it easier on the eye and the fingers.
Here's the same poem, but with doubles instead of uppercase.
byartho prem by suneel gongopaadhoy
protiTi bartho premi aamaake notun ahonkaar dyae
aami maanush hishebe iktu lombaa hoe uThi
du:kho aamaar maathaar chool theke paaer aangul porjonto
chorie jaae
aami shomosto maanusher theke aalaadaa hoe ak
awchena raastaa die dheere paae
he(n)Te jaai
shaarthok maanushder aaro chai mukh aamaar shojjho hae na
aami pather kukurke biskuT kine dei
rickshawaalaa ke dei sigareT
andho maanusher shaadaa laThi aamaar paaer kaacche
khoshe pare
aamaar du haat bhorti aDhel daeaa, aamaake keu
firie diechhe bole goTaa duniaaTaake
mone hae khub aapon
aami baari theke berui notun kaacha
pyant shaarT pore
aamaar shoddo daari kaamano nawrom mukh-khaanike
aami nijei aador kori
khoob gopone
aami akjon porichonno maanush
aamaar shorbaange kothau
ektuo moilaa nei
ahonkaarer protibha jyotribaloy hoe thaake aamaar
maathaar pichone
aar keu dekhuk ki naai dekhuk
aami Thik Ter paai
obhimaan aamaar oshThe ene dae snigdho haash-sho
aami amon bhaabe paa pheli jeno maaTir bukeo
aaghaat naa laage
aamaar to kaaruke du:kho debaar kothaa nei
Arup Sohel Khan
In article <5hrc8b$1u7$1...@dewey.udel.edu>,
Zunaid Kazi <ka...@stimpy.eecis.udel.edu> wrote:
>
>Transliteration Schema
I notice widespread use of Capital and Lowercase letters differentiating
between several Bangla vowels and consonants. What comparative advantage
do we get from using these? Example:
Why "Am" instead of "aam" for a Bangla mango?
I don't have a better idea. Just curious.
- Arup.
--
+===============================================================+
| Arup Sohel Khan ak...@cis.udel.edu |
+===============================================================+
syed hussain
Zunaid Kazi wrote:
>
> In article <5hrd29$1v1$1...@dewey.udel.edu>,
There is one use I found pretty convenient. When in Bangla we use the
suffix "a" like in 'tomar (prem a) hobo shobar kolonko bhagi' we usualy
write it as 'preme'. But sometimes trying to read fast I read this as
'prim'. At first I tried to use 'premaye' but later 'prem a' looked
simpler.
I saw an amazing use the other day. Somebody wrote 'mon a' as monet the
painter. Quite brilliant.
Nripendra Nath Sarker
premaye --> prem a
is a very attractive simplification. how about keeping these two together,
like
prem-a or prem_a
?
--
N N Sarker
Manush Enechhe Grantho, Grantho Aneni Manush Kono -- Kazi Nazrul Islam.
Religion is the worst device ever created by human being.
Udayan Chattopadhyay
There is surely a consistent alternative for those who do not wish to write
"Benglish" on a personal-phonetic level: transliteration. This is used
extensively by academics and libraries - each letter in Bengali has a
corresponding Roman equivalent (though basic letters are too simple to
handle variants - ie, accents on 's' to differentiate between the 3
varieties in Bengali, on the vowels to differentiate between long and short)
This does mean one has to be familiar with the original Bengali spelling,
and can be confusing since, Bengali being very unphonetic relative to other
S Asian langauges, words will not be pronounced as written in English - ie,
"okkhor" will be transliterated as "aksar", "lokkhi" would be "laksmi" etc
(Technically, Bangladesh would be bamlades(a)!)
Can lead to amusing cases though (which is why it will never work for us on
the net). I remember seeing an example in a book in the University Library
in Cambridge:
"Shotabdir Mohanayok Sheikh Mujib" by Mizanur Rahman Mizan (the English
spelling was written on the inside cover) - was transliterated as
"satabdira mahanayaka sekha mujiba" by mijanura rahamana mijana ...
obviously done by some geek at the "auriyental(a) istadij(a) phekalti"...
Kh...@wrc.xerox.com
In Article Use of English alphabet for Bengali writing , Sohail Hasnie <SHa...@reggen.vic.gov.au> wrote:
Dear All,
This will have the following advantages.
(1) Second generation migrants who usually speaks Bengali but can not write
will be able to communicate with their Grand parents.
(2) use of Internet will be spread amongst the illiterate Bengalis (workers
in countries like Malaysia)
--> How can an illiterate person read Romanized or Bangla Bangla??
(3) If widespread use becomes prevalent, foreign investors and the like
will be able to 'read' some Bengali communications
--->Reading is not enough. One has to understand what it means. I can read German & French
but I don't understand most all of it.
The Filipinos the Vietnamese, the Indonesians all use English alphabet. If
some people can still communicate without learning the Bengali alphabets,
let us give them a chance.
--->The Japanese, Chinese, Koreans, Russians have not Romanized their language
or character set. And they are doing quite well in the business world.
This idea was put on the table before. Apparently it went nowhere. Personally, I
think it is fine for someone to transliterate Bangla using Roman characters, like
e-mail, posting on SCB. But do we really need to adopt an official stance on it?
IMO, I just can't get the true flavor in reading true Bangla vs Romanized
Bangla. I'm not expert in Bangla, as I've gone through 'English' as the medium
of instruction all the way through. But I still prefer overwhelmingly to read
write Bangla using the Bangla alphabet. And I do not want to be required/forced to
compile in Romanized Bangla.....I should be free to do what I want.
For the convenience of a few who would like to, but do not know Bangla, I see
really no reason to Romanize and hide the true flavor, color and essence of
Bangla.In the process give up the heritage of over a thousand years?
I'd recommend learning Bangla. Learning a second language is a no
big deal.
The Japanese have done quite well without having to Romanize their language. In
order to deal with the West(eg USA), many learned the English language. Same
with the Chinese, Koreans etc.
Besides, technology will soon catch up with a clever process to allow writing
and transmission of characters in any language. Consider that we can now compile
in Bangla with TT Bangla fonts in word processors that were unheard of a few years ago.
I say we leave Bangla character set just as it is. Use transliteration for e-mail
or posting etc etc in an informal way. Making it official is asking for too much
trouble, work, debate(like how to 'spell' a Bangla word can itself be an arduous
and perhaps inconclusive debate), rules to compose. An informal, use it as you like,
whenever, wherever will make it much simpler. Do the best to be phonetically
correct. Just do it, informally.....no debates required.
That's how I feel.
Regards-Shubecchante(spelling?? Is it or is it not?)
Khan Kabir
"I asked for all things that I might enjoy life.
I was given life that I might enjoy all things."
...Robindranath Thakur
Shoumyo Dasgupta
Udayan Chattopadhyay wrote:
> "Shotabdir Mohanayok Sheikh Mujib" by Mizanur Rahman Mizan (the English
> spelling was written on the inside cover) - was transliterated as
>
> "satabdira mahanayaka sekha mujiba" by mijanura rahamana mijana ...
> obviously done by some geek at the "auriyental(a) istadij(a) >phekalti"...
:))))
Shoumyo.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"...Sroter bolkole dhaka prodeepdrishyer pichchu pichchu
Nrityer bhongima matro jege thake, ar thake ophuronto dheu
Bhasha, shudhu bhashai niyoti"
- NODIKOTHA, Goutom Choudhuri
bstal...@aol.com
>While I may not concur with all the reasons you listed for using
>Roman alphabets for Bangla transliteration over the net, it is important
>that there is a common and widely accepted standard. To that end, I have
>been working on such a scheme for a numbe rof years.
My 2 cents, if you please, as an interested outsider. I don't have face to face contact with a Bangladeshi, so I don't hear the words spoken. I don't get any BD publications, so I don't see the
characters written. I have a study course on Arabic, a tri-lingual South Asian dictionary, and a Bengali phrase book, and I cannot understand any of these languages yet. A kindly gentleman on the net
has been translating and explaining postings for me, and sites like Zunaid's are very helpful.
Developing a transliteration scheme would facilitate the compiling of a dictionary that non-Bengali's like myself could use with which better to communicate. We are effectively "locked out of the
loop," as it currently is. I know there are those who would say that these Bengali posts are by and for Bengalis, and are none of my concern, but I think that's a very narrow view.
Regards,
Bob