Origin of word "Estonia"
Viki
Eesti and eestlane (Estonia and Estonian), in Finnish Viro and virolainen.
For a Finn, pronouncing word Eesti is quite easy and natural, that is why
many Finns use those (international) variants (Eesti) in spoken language
instead of official (Viro). And that is annoying some controllers of
"correct Finnish".
But, the question:
According to quite nice article
http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~saarinen/Viro-seura/viro_vai_eesti.html (in Finnish)
Estonia was introduced as a name of country and people in recent meaning
only two hundred years ago. It is a loan from some Indo-European (German)
language meaning in general Baltic and originates from two thousand years
ago.
In an other message, the etymology or meaning of Estonia was told to be
"East-land".
Can somebody give a good info or source of information on these matters?
(Estonians have the West Sea (Läänemeri) and Finns the East Sea (Itämeri)
meaning the Baltic Sea, this is showing, who could see his position more
independently!)
Eugene Holman
<viik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The Estonian Läänemeri names the body of water from the standpoint of
Estonian geography. If other languages in the area worked the same way,
the Finns would call it the South Sea, the Poles would call it the
North Sea, and the Danes and Swedes would call it the East Sea. These
would not really be names, but rather designations which could cause
considerable confusion when on nation interacted with another.
The Finns subscribed to a more attitude towards names and designations,
and accepted a translation into Finnish of the Low German desigation De
Oost Zee as the name for the body of water in Finnish. In the oldest
Latin language maps of the region the body of water is called Mare
Balticum.
As to the first mention of the Aestii, one should not forget Tacitus's
Germania. Where the word comes from has never been satisfactorily
explained, the Latin word for "east" being _oriens_., literally "the
[sun's] rising". The various Baltic-Finnic tribes referred to nowadays
as Estonians usually designated themselves as the _maarahvas_, "people
of the country", "aborigines". The Finns, who had the most intense
contact with the inhabitants of Virumaa, used the name of that part of
Estonia as a designation for the entire area. When the Baltics were
under Russian administration there was a tendency to refer to northern
Estonia as Estlandia, and to southern Estonia as Livonia. As recently
as the 19th first decades of the 19th century the Baltic-Finnish
dialects of the area of Dorpat (= Tartu) on the one hand, and of Reval
(=Tallinn) on the other provided the basis for two distinct standard
languages. The northern normalization eventually ousted the southern
one, assisted by the nationalism of the 19th century which was able to
generate feelings conducive to the development of feelings emphasizing
the importance of a common background and consequent shared future
between northern and southern Estonians and which resulted in their
eventual into a single ethnic entity. This so-called "national
awakening" was largely fueled on the popular level by appeal to an
idealized and partially mythological shared past.
Source:
http://www.ur.edu/~wstevens/romanhistory/history331texts/barbarians.html
From the final chapter of Tacitus' _Germania_:
<quote>
Beyond the Suiones we find another sea, sluggish and almost stagnant.
This sea is believed to be the boundary that girdles the earth because
the last radiance of the setting sun lingers on here till dawn, with a
brilliance that dims the stars. Popular belief adds that you can hear
the sound he makes as he rises from the waves and can see the shape of
his horses and the rays on his head. So far and no farther (in this,
report speaks trulyj does the world extend. Turning, therefore, to the
right hand shore of the Suebian sea, we find it washing the country of
the Aestii, who have the same customs and fashions as the Suebi, but a
language more like the British. They worship the Mother of the gods,
and wear, as an emblem of this cult, the device of a wild boar, which
stands them in stead of armour or human protection and gives the
worshipper a sense of security even among his enemies. They seldom use
weapons of iron, but clubs very often. They cultivate grain and other
crops with a perseverance unusual among the indolent Germans. They also
ransack the sea. They are the only people who collect amber - glaesum
is their own word for it - in the shallows or even on the beach. Like
true barbarians, they have never asked or discovered what it is or how
it is produced. For a long time, indeed, it lay unheeded like any other
refuse of the sea, until Roman luxury made its reputation. They have no
use for it themselves. They gather it crude, pass it on to unworked
lumps, and are astounded at the price it fetches. Amber, however, is
certainly a gum of trees, as you may see from the fact that creeping
and even winged creatures are often seen shining through it. Caught in
the sticky liquid, they were then imprisoned as it hardened. I imagine
that in the islands and continents of the west, just as in the secret
chambers ofthe east, where the trees exude frankincense and balm, there
must be woods and groves of unusual productivity. Their gums, drawn out
by the rays of their near neighbour the sun, flow in liquid state into
the adjacent sea and are finally washed up by violent storms on the
shores that lie opposite. If you test the properties of amber by
applying fire to it, you will find that it lights like a torch and
burns with a smoky, pungent flame, soon becoming a semi-fluid mass like
pitch or resin.
<deletions>
</quote>
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
The Estonian Läänemeri names the body of water from the standpoint of
Estonian geography. If other languages in the area worked the same way,
the Finns would call it the South Sea, the Poles would call it the
North Sea, and the Danes and Swedes would call it the East Sea. These
would not really be names, but rather designations which could cause
considerable confusion when on nation interacted with another.
The Finns subscribed to a more global attitude towards names and
designations, and accepted a translation into Finnish of the Low German
[= Hansa influenced] designation _De Oost Zee_, as the name for the
body of water in Finnish. In the oldest Latin language maps of the
region the body of water is called _Mare Balticum_.
As to the first mention of the Aestii, one should not forget Tacitus's
_Germania_, written alnmost 2,000 years ago. Where the word comes from
has never been satisfactorily explained, the Latin word for "east"
being _oriens_., literally "the [sun's] rising". The various
Baltic-Finnic tribes referred to nowadays as Estonians usually
designated themselves as the _maarahvas_, "people of the country",
"aborigines". The Finns, who had the most intense contact with the
inhabitants of Virumaa, the area facing southern Finland, used the name
of that part of Estonia as a designation for the entire area. When the
Baltics were under Russian administration there was a tendency to refer
to northern Estonia as Estlandia, and to southern Estonia as Livonia.
As recently as the 19th first decades of the 19th century the
Baltic-Finnish dialects of the area of Dorpat (= Tartu) on the one
hand, and of Reval (=Tallinn) on the other provided the basis for two
distinct standard languages. The northern normalization eventually
ousted the southern one, assisted by the nationalism of the 19th
century which was able to generate feelings conducive to the
development of feelings emphasizing the importance of a common
background and consequent shared future between northern and southern
Estonians and which resulted in their eventual amalgamation into a
single ethnic entity. This so-called "national awakening" was largely
fueled on the popular level by appeal to an idealized and partially
mythologized shared past.
Source:
http://www.ur.edu/~wstevens/romanhistory/history331texts/barbarians.html
From the final chapter of Tacitus' _Germania_:
<quote>
Beyond the Suiones we find another sea, sluggish and almost stagnant.
This sea is believed to be the boundary that girdles the earth because
the last radiance of the setting sun lingers on here till dawn, with a
brilliance that dims the stars. Popular belief adds that you can hear
the sound he makes as he rises from the waves and can see the shape of
his horses and the rays on his head. So far and no farther (in this,
report speaks truly) does the world extend. Turning, therefore, to the
maldzia
misleading.
One can get idea that his AESTII were predecessors of modern
Estonians.
In fact they could have been:
1. Prussian tribes only (abundance of amber)
2. All Baltic speaking tribes (language more like the British)
3. All inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Baltic see, including
also Fino-Ugric speakers.
The third possibility is much slimmer, because Tacitus a little lower
mentions also Fens, tribes completely different from his Aestii, which
could be identified with modern Fins and Estonians.
Anyway, about 500AD the Aestii were still easily identified by Goths
as Prussians, see http://www.mammen-online.de/jordanes.htm
Arvydas
Eugene Holman <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message news:<190520012214416236%hol...@elo.helsinki.fi>...
Eugene Holman
<arv...@accel.lt> wrote:
> Interesting post, but the attached Tacitus citation, I think, is
> misleading.
> One can get idea that his AESTII were predecessors of modern
> Estonians.
> In fact they could have been:
> 1. Prussian tribes only (abundance of amber)
> 2. All Baltic speaking tribes (language more like the British)
> 3. All inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Baltic see, including
> also Fino-Ugric speakers.
>
> The third possibility is much slimmer, because Tacitus a little lower
> mentions also Fens, tribes completely different from his Aestii, which
> could be identified with modern Fins and Estonians.
Historians generally agree that this descrption of the Finns is a
description of the Sámis (Lapps) mixture through the prism of fairy
tale and distance. At the time Tacitus was writing the Finns were
agriculturalists, not the foragers described in Tacitus. And the word
"Finn" was originally used to designate the Sámis, as it still does in
the Norwegian word for Lappland - "Finnmark" as well as in Anglo-Saxon.
> Anyway, about 500AD the Aestii were still easily identified by Goths
> as Prussians, see http://www.mammen-online.de/jordanes.htm
Thanks for that reference. I had forgotten all about Jordanes.
Remember, we are talking about the origins of the _word_ not of the
various meanings that have been attached to it. The word "Eesti," or
Estonia, is derived from the word "Aisti," the general designation used
by the ancient Germans for the peoples living northeast of the Vistula
River. The first known written occurrence of the word is in Tacitus
citation that I quoted, so it is certainly important if we are
concerned with the origin of the word.
As to the various meanings that have been attached to it, it probably
originally just meant "the folks living to the northeast and speaking a
strange language". As their knowledge of peoples and geography
developed, it eventually acquired a more precise meaning. By the Viking
age the Scandinavians were calling the land south of the Gulf of
Finland "Eistland," and the people "aistr." In Anglo-Saxon, on the
other hand, the word "estas" still designated the people living to the
northeast of the Vistula. Only much later in Modern English did it
designate the people we today call Estonians.
Among the Estonians, use of the words "Eesti" and "eestlane" is a 19th
century innovation. The traditional self-designation is maa rahvas "the
people of the countryside", and until the late 19th century what we now
call Estonian was regarded as two distinct languages, Tallinna keel
"the language of Tallinn" and Tartu keel "the language of Tartu". This
was emphasized by the fact that northern and southern Estonia have
quite different histories, as a consequence they have sometimes been
different administrative entities and even belonged to different
countries. The northern part being variously referred to as Estonia or
Ingermanland, the southern part, along with the northern part of
Latvia, down to the Daugava Livonia, as Livonia. At other times they
have been united and, once again along with the northern part of Latvia
referred to collectively as Livonia.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
Eugene Holman
> Interesting post, but the attached Tacitus citation, I think, is
> misleading.
> One can get idea that his AESTII were predecessors of modern
> Estonians.
> In fact they could have been:
> 1. Prussian tribes only (abundance of amber)
> 2. All Baltic speaking tribes (language more like the British)
> 3. All inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Baltic see, including
> also Fino-Ugric speakers.
>
> The third possibility is much slimmer, because Tacitus a little lower
> mentions also Fens, tribes completely different from his Aestii, which
> could be identified with modern Fins and Estonians.
Historians generally agree that this descrption of the "Finns" is a
description of the Sámis (Lapps) mixture through the prism of fairy
tale and distance. At the time Tacitus was writing the Finns were
agriculturalists, not the foragers described in Tacitus. Nor did they
have a history of being regarded as a single nation referred to by that
word. In Germanic languages the word "Finn" was originally used to
designate the Sámis, as it still does in the Norwegian word for
Lappland - "Finnmark" - as well as in Anglo-Saxon.
> Anyway, about 500AD the Aestii were still easily identified by Goths
> as Prussians, see http://www.mammen-online.de/jordanes.htm
Eugene Holman
> Interesting post, but the attached Tacitus citation, I think, is
> misleading.
> One can get idea that his AESTII were predecessors of modern
> Estonians.
> In fact they could have been:
> 1. Prussian tribes only (abundance of amber)
> 2. All Baltic speaking tribes (language more like the British)
> 3. All inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Baltic see, including
> also Fino-Ugric speakers.
>
> The third possibility is much slimmer, because Tacitus a little lower
> mentions also Fens, tribes completely different from his Aestii, which
> could be identified with modern Fins and Estonians.
Historians generally agree that this descrption of the "Finns" is a
description of the Sámis (Lapps) mixed through the prism of fairy
tale and distance. At the time Tacitus was writing the Finns were
agriculturalists, not the foragers described in Tacitus. Nor did they
have a history of being regarded as a single nation referred to by that
word. In the sources in Germanic languages upon which Tacitus based his
report, the word "Finn" was originally used to designate the Sámis, as
it still does in the Norwegian word for Lappland - "Finnmark" - as well
as in Anglo-Saxon:
Source:
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00085033?query_type=word&queryword=F
inn&sort_type=alpha&edition=2e&first=1&max_to_show=10&search_id=dNcE-qTv
14M-2488
<quote>
The name used by the Teut. nations for an individual of a people in
North-Eastern Europe and Scandinavia, calling themselves Suomi or
Suomelaisset, and speaking a language of the Ural-Altaic class. Often
applied more widely to include other peoples closely allied ethnically
and linguistically to the Finns proper or Suomi.
c893 K. ÆLFRED Oros. I. i. (Sweet) 17 a Finnas..& a Beormas spræcon
neah an eeode. 1599 tr. K. Ælfred's Oros. in Hakluyt Voy. I. He iudged,
that the Fynnes and Biarmes speake but one language. 1854 LATHAM in
Smith's Dict. Cl. Geog. I. 894 Finn is not the name by which either the
Finlanders or the Laplanders know themselves. It is the term by which
they are known to the Northmen.
<quote>
Source:
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00078278
<quote>
A. adj. Of or belonging to Estonia (native name Eesti), since 1940 a
constituent republic of the U.S.S.R., stretching along the south coast
of the Gulf of Finland. B. n.
1. A native or inhabitant of Estonia.
2. The Finno-Ugrian language of Estonia.
1795 in W. Tooke Varieties of Literature I. 23 Esthonian poetry.
Ibid., The Esthonians..have an extremely soft, delicate, and tender
articulation. 1841 LADY EASTLAKE Resid. Shores Baltic II. xvi. 62
Nothing can exceed the hospitality of the Estonians. 1863 R. G. LATHAM
Nationalities of Europe I. xii. 129 Ma, in Estonian, means land. Ibid.
132 The Estonian instrument is the harp. 1874 A. H. SAYCE Princ.
Compar. Philol. 322 Wanna Issi in Esthonian means Œthe old father¹.
1894 W. F. KIRBY Hero of Esthonia I. p. xvi, The Finns, the Esthonians,
and the Lapps..speak very similar languages. 1925 O. RUTTER New Baltic
States xi. 199 Estonian folklore owes something to the Finnish. 1941 J.
H. JACKSON Estonia i. 20 The Soviets..were asking for naval bases on
Estonian territory. Ibid. iii. 58 One of the eight chairs on the
original foundation was a professorship in the Estonian language. 1948
A. ORAS Baltic Eclipse i. 20 The Estonian shipyards, railway works,
plywood factories. 1952 E. UUSTALU Hist. Estonian People v. 82 These
tax and work registers, or ŒVakus-books¹, as they were called in
Estonian.
</quote>
It¨s sad to see how outdated and thus unreliable the information on the
current status of the word is, but the information about first
attestations is generally reliable.
> Anyway, about 500AD the Aestii were still easily identified by Goths
> as Prussians, see http://www.mammen-online.de/jordanes.htm
Eugene Holman
> Interesting post, but the attached Tacitus citation, I think, is
> misleading.
> One can get idea that his AESTII were predecessors of modern
> Estonians.
> In fact they could have been:
> 1. Prussian tribes only (abundance of amber)
> 2. All Baltic speaking tribes (language more like the British)
> 3. All inhabitants of the Eastern coast of the Baltic see, including
> also Fino-Ugric speakers.
>
> The third possibility is much slimmer, because Tacitus a little lower
> mentions also Fens, tribes completely different from his Aestii, which
> could be identified with modern Fins and Estonians.
Historians generally agree that this descrption of the "Finns" is a
description of the Sámis (Lapps) seen through the prisms of fairy
tale and distance. At the time Tacitus was writing the Finns were
agriculturalists, not the foragers described in _Germania_. Nor did they
Source:
http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00078278
> Anyway, about 500AD the Aestii were still easily identified by Goths
> as Prussians, see http://www.mammen-online.de/jordanes.htm
Thanks for that reference. I had forgotten all about Jordanes.
Remember, we are talking about the origins of the _word_ not of the
various meanings that have been attached to it. The word "Eesti," or
Estonia, is derived from the word "Aisti," the general designation used
by the ancient Germans for the peoples living northeast of the Vistula
River. The first known written occurrence of the word is in Tacitus
citation that I quoted, so it is certainly important if we are
concerned with the origin of the word.
As to the various meanings that have been attached to it, it probably
originally just meant "the folks living to the northeast and speaking a
strange language". As their knowledge of peoples and geography
developed, it eventually acquired a more precise meaning. By the Viking
age the Scandinavians were calling the land south of the Gulf of
Finland "Eistland," and the people "aistr." In Anglo-Saxon, on the
other hand, the word "estas" still designated the people living to the
northeast of the Vistula. Only much later in Modern English (first
written attestation 1795) did it designate the people we today call
Estonians.
Among the Estonians, use of the words "Eesti" and "eestlane" is a 19th
century innovation. The traditional self-designation is maa rahvas "the
people of the countryside", and until the late 19th century what we now
call Estonian was regarded as two distinct languages, Tallinna keel
"the language of Tallinn" and Tartu keel "the language of Tartu". This
was emphasized by the fact that northern and southern Estonia have
quite different histories, as a consequence they have sometimes been
different administrative entities and even belonged to different
countries. The northern part has been variously referred to as Estonia
or Ingermanland, the southern part, along with the northern part of
Latvia, down to the Daugava, as Livonia. At other times they
have been united and, once again along with the northern part of Latvia,
au...@banknotes.com
The name "ESTONIA" derived from two words:
ELECTRONIC + STONE (stone age) = Electronic Stone Age
or E-stonia, a very popular term these days. That would mean
that stonia once stone age tribe now is online.
Justin Kidding
au...@banknotes.com
what is your opinion on differences of English geo locality creations between the following
country names:
Finland (Fin + Land? End of Land? On the Edge of the World?)
Estonia (E-Stone?)
Latvia (Via Lat?)
Lithuania (why not Lietuvania? :-)))) or simply Lithua with "NIA" (n/a) the name is to long for
such a small country :))
Poland (Pol/Paul and ...?) or Polish...shoe polish? ole? North or South Pole?
Russia (Rus' + Asia = Russia?)
Belarus (artificial country made of Lietuvan and Rossiyan lands)
Ukraine (U + kraini - on the edge?) or maybe UK Rain?
Moldova (or maybe Moldovania? same as Lietuva=Lithuania....) Moldaviania?
Romania (Roma land)
Germany (Germ many = many germs)
France - no comment
Spain - (pain in the ..s)
Austria - country where a lot of mis-sent mail to Australia arrives
Czechia (Czech Republic) - why not Czechania, Czechia, Czechuania, Czechico instead of C.Republic.
Slovakia - actually it's Slovensko very similar to Slovenia, they avoided naming it as Slovenskia.
Why not Slovak Republic? :) and Lithuan Republic? :)
Denmark (used to be Denmarque i guess :) so Finland could be Finmark and then Estmark, Latmark.
Litmark.
Sweden/Sverige - or it could be Swedia, Swedania doswidania? Or Lithuania as Litauen instead.
Norway/Norge - how about Finway, Russway, Polway, Germanway? :)
The Netherlands/Holland - "THE" and other countries are not THE... :)
Belgium/Belgie/Belgique/Belgia/Belgija etc. so Belorussia could be Belarusium as well.
Luxembourg/Letzeburg - just like Lithuania, got bitten off a large piece of it, but still
prosperous...
Greece or Grease? or why not Ellania? Ellasinia? Ellas Republic?
Turkey - well...the bird, it tastes good, actually it should be Turkiye, not to remind of the bird.
or Turkium, Turkway, The Turkey, Turkia, Turk Republic etc.
Brazil or Brazilia, Brazilland, The Brazilway etc.
America = correctly would be Vespuccia...
enuf 4 now
Those Britts are creative... :)
Just Kidding
Eugene Holman
wrote:
> Eugene,
>
> what is your opinion on differences of English geo locality creations between
> the following
> country names:
>
[word "his stories" deleted]
ROTFL!
Best,
Eugene Holman
Viki
Thanks, a really fine and complete essay on the subject!
But... could You still say: "word Estonia derived from the word "Aisti," the
general designation used
> by the ancient Germans for the peoples living northeast of the Vistula
River "
Understood.
But the question, does words "eesti" or "aisti" have any common
ethymology/root with word "east"? The description of the meaning of word
eesti does not include or exclude this?
Eugene Holman
<viik...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Eugene Holman" <hol...@elo.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:300520012137375172%hol...@elo.helsinki.fi...
>
> Thanks, a really fine and complete essay on the subject!
>
> But... could You still say: "word Estonia derived from the word "Aisti," the
> general designation used
> > by the ancient Germans for the peoples living northeast of the Vistula
> River "
>
> Understood.
>
> But the question, does words "eesti" or "aisti" have any common
> ethymology/root with word "east"? The description of the meaning of word
> eesti does not include or exclude this?
The phonology of the two words suggests that they do not have a common
origin. In the older continental Germanic languages the word for "east"
had a back vowel, e.g. Old Norse austr, Old High German ôstan. It is
not completely clear what vowel Tacitus was trying to capture with the
spelling <ai> - Latin did not have a written diphthong <ai> and by
Tacititus's time the older Latin diphthong [ai], spelled <ae>, had been
monophthongized in most varieties of spoken Latin to an [e:] sound.
If the word is indeed from the root that also gives us the word for
"east" we would expect him to be using the spelling <o>, because that
is evidently the sound the word had in the German dialects spoken in
the area in his day. The Old English word for east, êast, contains a
diphthong which developed as a consequence of phonological changes
within English after its separation from the continental languages and
which later developed into the modern [i:] (popularly called "long e")
sound. The modern German and Scandinavian (Swedish, Norwegian, and
Danish alluse the same word) words for "east" are, as we would expect,
Ost and öst (øst), while their words for Estonia, Estland, all have a
different vowel. The est- in Estland could, of course be a Medieval
Latin version of the Scandinavian aust- > öst- element, but I have no
evidence supporting this hypothesis. Only in English, by pure
coincidence, do the words for "east" and "Estonia" have such a strong
resemblance: consider German Ost/Estland, Swedish öst/Estland,
Danish/Norwegian øst/Estland. On the other hand, the fact that even in
these languages both elements have the <st> combination and the place
being referred to lies to the easy might have given rise to
associations in those languages as well.
Regards,
Eugene Holman
maldzia
Well, I did not say your quotation of Tacitus was not correct, I said
it was *misleading*, because some readers could get an idea that
Tacitus was talking only about the predecessors of Estonians, while in
the best case they COULD have been covered by this name among many
other East Baltic tribes.
By the way, years ago somewhere I found yet another etymology of this
name. According to it Aestii comes from the same root as a Lithuanian
name Aistmares=Frisches Haff=Kalingradskii Zaliv. Is supposes a
proto-Prussian tribe Aisti, after which the bay was named. This
etymology is quite elegant: it follows an already existing pattern
(compare Kurshi > Kurshmares=Kurisches Haff=Kurshskii Zaliv), it
explains Tacitus spelling, Jordanus says Prussians were Aestii and
Aistmares Bay is in the middle of Prussian lands.
But, to my opinion, the idea is not very convincing- Aistmares itself
could be a comparatively recent projection of Aestii in to Lithuanian
language. And the same old Jordanus points out that the name was used
to call the Prussians by people *outside their world*.
On the other hand, if somebody could prove that both assumptions are
wrong and Lithuanian aist- comes from Germanic ost/oest, then it would
indirectly demonstrate that Latin aist/aest from Germanic ost/oest is
also not impossible.
I think, it is worth digging, somebody got a shovel?
Arvydas
kadagys
assumptions are
wrong and Lithuanian aist- comes from Germanic ost/oest, then it would
indirectly demonstrate that Latin aist/aest from Germanic ost/oest is also
not impossible.
I think, it is worth digging, somebody got a shovel?"
Arvydai
Any info on the proto-etymology of ost/est/œst? Does it have anything to do
with the word 'aušra' for example (dawn; from 'aušti' - 'to become light').
Only trouble is, of course, that the 'aisciai' and 'aistmares' were in the
extreme west of Lithuania. However, viewed by others further west, they
then become 'easterners'....
Gintautas
au...@banknotes.com
WDTM?
maldzia
> Arvydas wrote: "On the other hand, if somebody could prove that both
> assumptions are
> wrong and Lithuanian aist- comes from Germanic ost/oest, then it would
> indirectly demonstrate that Latin aist/aest from Germanic ost/oest is also
> not impossible.
> I think, it is worth digging, somebody got a shovel?"
>
> Arvydai
>
> with the word 'aušra' for example (dawn; from 'aušti' - 'to become light').
> Only trouble is, of course, that the 'aisciai' and 'aistmares' were in the
> extreme west of Lithuania. However, viewed by others further west, they
> then become 'easterners'....
>
> Gintautas
I believe in this thread all possible explanations of the name Estonia
were covered. At the time being it is not clear, which of them is
correct. But if we look deeper, as you say, all of them converge to
the same primary source- Proto Indo-European root AUS-.
Look at the reconstructed roots table at
http://members.nbci.com/piestudies/dbframe.htm
AUS- (to shine) is the origin of not only east/ost/oest but also
auksas<ausas (Lith- gold), aurum (Latin- gold), aistra (Lith-
passion), aus^ra (Lith- dawn), australis (Latin- eastern).
So it looks that there are at least three names of the countries that
have originated from this root- Estonia, Austria and Australia.
Arvydas
kadagys
> http://members.nbci.com/piestudies/dbframe.htm
> AUS- (to shine) is the origin of not only east/ost/oest but also
> auksas<ausas (Lith- gold), aurum (Latin- gold), aistra (Lith-
> passion), aus^ra (Lith- dawn), australis (Latin- eastern).
> So it looks that there are at least three names of the countries that
> have originated from this root- Estonia, Austria and Australia.
>
> Arvydas
Arvydai
What a cool site! Thanks for the lead. I would love to get my hands on the
Indoeuropäisches Etymologisches Wörterbuch!
Gintautas Kaminskas
au...@banknotes.com
Very interesting site. Many of PIE words sound so Lithuanian,
some surprisingly unchanged.
au...@banknotes.com
PEI LT ENG
penkwe penki five
l-ino linai flax
sreu srove flow
mus muse fly
ped peda foot
kwetuor keturi four
deiu-os dievas god
deiu-i deive goddess
medhu medus, midus honey drink
nmrtos nemirtingas immortal
mems mesa meat
nisdo lizdas nest
ne ne no, not
sen- sen-(as, a, i) old
hoinos vienas one
suos savas own
eis- aistra passion
leup lupt, lup- peel, break off
teuta tauta people, nation
meld- meldzia (prays) pray
peruti pernai previous year
dhe- de-(ti, k) put
loks-os lashisha salmon
sekw sak-(yk) say
mori marios, jura sea
sept-m septyni seven
siu siu-t(i), siu-(k) sew
ghel- (gelton-a/s = yellow) shine, be bright
suesor sesuo sister
sueks sheshi six
sed- ses-, sed- sit
Dieus Dievas Sky Father
supno sapn-uok sleep/dream of
dhumos dumas smoke
snoigwhos sniegas snow
suhnu sunus son
wesr pavasaris (vasara = summer) springtime
kaul- kaul-as (bone) stalk, stem
h/ekmon akmuo stone
se/h/-ul saule sun
medhus saldus, medus(honey) sweet
dakru- ashara teardrop (not so similar)
dekmt deshimt ten
h/en ten there
trei-es trys three
treio- trejopas, trugubas triple
duidkmt dvideshimt 20
duo, dui du two
uem-ti vemti vomit
uodr vanduo water (more like English)
h/rot ratas wheel
kwo-s kas who
kwoter-o katras who of two
ulkwos vilkas wolf
uln vilna wool
swergh serga (is sick) be sick, worry
gherdh gardas (fenced place to keep animals in) yard
tu, tuam tu you
tuos tavo, tavas your
suekuro shveshuras? bro-in-law
pltu platu/s broad
mbho abu/du both
gnto gimt (to be born) born
bhei bite bee
bhu- bu- be, is
es-ti esti (is, exists) be
bhebhr, bhibhros bebras beaver
bhoso basa/s barefoot
hebol- obuol-ys apple
pos po after
gal- gal-... able, have power
Other words of PIE some remind of Germanic or Romance or Slavic languages. I only listed very
clearly similar ones to Lithuanian.
For example PIE "mleuh" (say) reminds me of Czech.