Child Molestation and the Jewish Talmud - Doc Tavish Battles it Out With Neo-Pharisees R_1003
Sean Cyril O'Tavish
From:
The Babylonian Talmud
Translated into English by Rabbi Dr. I. Epstein
London
The Soncino Press 1935
[Note: When you see something such as {3}, this means a numbered footnote
for further reference. Words and phrases in ( ) are as the appeared in
the Talmud, in ( )s. Doc Tavish]
<Yebamoth 60b on page 402 of above Talmud>:
It was taught: Rabbi Simeon b. Yohai stated: A proselyte who is under the
age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest, for it is
said, "But all the women children that have not known man by lying with
him, keep alive for yourselves {3}" and Phineas {4} surely was with them.
And the Rabbis? {5}- (These were kept alive) as bondmen and bondwomen. {6}
If so, {7} a proselyte whose age is three years and one day {8} should
also be permitted!- (The prohibition is to be explained) in accordance
with Rabbi Huna. For Rabbi Huna pointed out the contradiction: It is
written "Kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him {9}, but
if she hath not known, save her alive;" from this it may be inferred that
children are to be kept alive whether they have known or not known (a man); and,
on the other hand, it is also written, 'But all the women children, that have
not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves' {3}, but do not
spare them if they have known. Consequently {10} it must be said that Scripture
speaks of one {11} who is fit for cohabitation. {12}
Footnotes to above:
{3} Numbers 31, 18
{4} Who was a priest.
{5} How could they, contrary to the opinion of Rabbi Simeon b. Yohai,
which has scriptural support, forbid the marriage of the young
proselyte?
{6} Not for matrimony.
{7} That according to Rabbi Simeon, Numbers 31, 18 refers to
matrimony.
{8} So long as she has "not known a man."
{9} Numbers 31, 17
{10} To reconcile the contradiction.
{11} I.e. one who had attained the age of three years and one day. {12}
Not one who had actually experienced it.
For the Numbers 31, 17-18 passages we will use:
CHUMASH Intelligent Concept Search
which is at: http://www.mnemotrix.com/texis/vtx/chumash
and enter into the search engine windows Numbers Chapter 31 and scroll
down to get the Torah scriptures and you will see after downloading and
scrolling down:
Numbers CHAPTER 31
31 : 7 They mounted a surprise attack against Midian as God had
commanded Moses, and killed all the [adult] males.
31 : 8 Along with the other victims, they also killed the five kings of
Midian: Evi, Rekem, Tzur, Chur, and Reva, the five Midianite kings. They
also killed Balaam son of Beor by the sword.
31 : 9 The Israelites took captive all the women of Midian and their
children. They took as booty all their animals, all their possessions, and
all their wealth.
31 : 10 [The Israelites] also set fire to all their residential cities and
fortresses,
31 : 11 taking all the booty and plunder, both man and beast.
31 : 12 They brought the captives, the plunder, and the spoils to Moses,
Eleazar the priest, and the entire Israelite community, [who were] in the
Western Plains of Moab, on the Jericho Jordan.
31 : 13 Moses, Eleazar and all the community princes went out to greet
them outside the camp.
31 : 14 However, Moses was angry at the generals and captains, who were
the officers returning from the military campaign.
31 : 15 "Why have you kept all the women alive?" demanded Moses.
31 : 16 "These are exactly the ones who were involved with the Israelites at
Balaam's instigation, causing them to be unfaithful to God in the Peor
incident, and bringing a plague on God's community.
31 : 17 Now kill every male child, as well as every woman who has been involved
intimately with a man.
31 : 18 However, all the young girls who have not been involved
intimately with a man, you may keep alive for yourselves.
Sources:
The Torah translation you are reading is taken from
The Living Torah, by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan
The Hebrew Torah text linked to this Intelligent Search
is provided by and under the responsibility of
The World ORT Union
This Intelligent Chumash Search is provided by Mnemotrix Systems, Inc., in
memory of the cherished neshama.
[I included more than Numbers 31, 17-18 to show what was taking place at
the time. Notice that Moses is mentioned and that he is angry too! I now
ask: who was going to examine these young girls? To be honest we all know
that a genital inspection would be required! Remember the key is "young
girls." Doc Tavish]
------------------------------------
The following was from a reply post and it further amplifies Jewish male
cravings for toddler females!
On 7 Jan 1998 , jher...@ix.netcom.com(Joseph Hertzlinger) wrote:
>Let's see. First the Rabbis point out that Simeon b. Yohai was talking
>through his yarmulke. Then they point out that the marriage to the said
>three-year-old girl need not be consummated immediately. This is
>supposed to prove approval of pederasty.
Does this suit you better?
<Sanhedrin 55b on page 376 in above Talmud>:
Rabbi Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and one day
may be acquired in marriage by coition... If she married a priest, she may
eat of terumah; {3}
[Coition means having the sex act and notice please that the age is at
three years and one day! I do not see any Brady Bill type of a waiting
period for consummation. Do you? Doc Tavish]
Footnote:
{3} As the law of an Israelite's (adult) daughter who married a
priest. But if she is less than three years old, although the
Kiddushin accepted on her behalf by her father is valid, yet since she is
sexually immature, the marriage cannot be consummated, and hence she is not
thereby enabled to eat the terumah.
The footnotes {3} and {4} for Sanhedrin 54b on Talmud volume page 371 say:
{3} At nine years a male attains sexual matureness.
{4} Lev. XVIII, 22 Thus the point of comparison is the
sexual matureness of woman is reached at the age of three.
Are you going to deny this as well? Come on now and face reality! If the
Talmud says "sexual matureness of woman is reached at the age of three" is
anyone going to believe what you said: "they point out that the marriage
to the said three-year-old girl need not be consummated immediately." If
she is considered to be sexually mature at the age of three then why would
any groom put off consummating the marriage?
Read the Footnote again (as shown above):
{3} As the law of an Israelite's (adult) daughter who married a
priest. But if she is less than three years old, although the
Kiddushin accepted on her behalf by her father is valid, yet since she is
sexually immature, the marriage cannot be consummated, and hence she is not
thereby enabled to eat the terumah.
Please note why the marriage can NOT be consummated- "if she is less than
three years old" and "since she is sexually immature, the marriage cannot
be consummated."
As a further note, if Jews didn't have hangups about sex with three year
old girls then why is this on the web?
http://www.torah.org/advanced/weekly-halacha/5757/achrei.html
(Link active for verification 10/22/2000)
SELECTED HALACHOS RELATING TO PARSHAS ACHREI
Hilchos Yichud: Rulings of HaRav Feinstein
By Rabbi Doniel Neustadt
[...]
HILCHOS YICHUD: RULINGS OF HARAV M. FEINSTEIN
This verse is cited by most of the early authorities as the Biblical
source for the halachos of yichud, the prohibition against a man being
alone in a secluded place with a woman. The laws of yichud are complex and
detailed and the opinions of the poskim are diverse and
contradictory. This discussion will focus exclusively on the rulings of
Harav Moshe Feinstien, one of the greatest halachic authorities of our
generation....
AT WHAT AGE DOES THE PROHIBITION OF YICHUD BEGIN AND END?
A man over thirteen is prohibited to be alone with a girl over three.
Under extenuating circumstances, it is permitted to be alone with a girl
till the age of seven (5).
A woman over twelve may not be alone with a boy over nine.
Footnote:
5 Oral ruling by Harav M. Feinstein (quoted in Children in Halachah pg.
40) based on the rational presented in Igros Moshe EH 4:65-12, where, in
the final analysis, Harav Feinstein is hesitant to permit this. He writes,
however, that he would not object to those who are lenient.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As an added bonus here is oral sex on infant males by a Mohel:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mohel=&rnum=5&seld=926018656&ic=1
http://www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/mohel.htm
(Click the link above to verify the contents and to see pictures
which appeared in The Jerusalem Post magazine)
Shabbath 19:2
They may perform on the Sabbath all things that are needful for
circumcision: excision, tearing, sucking [the wound], and putting thereon
a bandage and cumin. If this had not been pounded up on the eve of the
Sabbath a man may chew it with his teeth and then apply it.
The Mishnah
Translated by Herbert Danby
Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1933. pp. 116-117.
Shabbat 133B
II.1.
A. Suck [out the wound]:
B. Said R. Pappa, "A Surgeon who didn't suck out the wound - that is a
source of danger, and we throw him out."
C. So what else is new? Obviously, since we are prepared to desecrate the
Sabbath on that account, it is certainly dangerous not to do it!
D. What might you have supposed? That this blood is stored up. So we are
informed that it is the result of the wound, and in the status of a
bandage and cumin: Just as when one doesn't put on a bandage and cumin,
there is danger, so here, too, if one doesn't do it, there is danger.
The Talmud of Babylonia: An American Translation
Translated by Jacob Neusner
Number 275. Volume II.E: Shabbat Chapters 18-24.
Program in Judaic Studies Brown University
Atlanta: Scholars Press. 1993. p. 45.
[The brackets in the quotes below are in the texts quoted.]
"There are three stages required for the performance of a ritually correct
circumcision in Jewish law: the removal of the foreskin; the tearing of
the underlying membraene so as to expose the glans completely; and the
sucking away of the blood, m'tsitsah." Roger V. Pavey. The Kindest Cut of
All. Bognor Regis, W. Sussex: New Horizon. 1981. pp. 87-88.
"The method to be adopted is laid down thus: 'One excises the foreskin,
[that is] the entire skin covering the glans, so that the corona is laid
bare. Afterwards, one tears with the finger-nail the soft membrane
underneath the skin, turning it to the sides until the flesh of the glans
appears. Thereafter, one sucks the membrane until the blood is extracted
from the [more] remote places, so that no danger [to the infant] may
ensue; and any circumciser who does not carry out the sucking procedure is
to be removed [from his office].' . . . The operation itself, then,
consists of three distinct acts: the excision of the prepuce; the
laceration of the mucous membrane covering the glans; and the sucking of
the blood from the interior of the wound." Immanuel Jakobovits. Jewish
Medical Ethics: A Comparative and Historical Study of the Jewish Religious
Attitude to Medicine and Its Practice. New York: Bloch Publishing Company.
1959. pp. 193-194.
"The baby cried, blood flowed on to his penis and - as the rabbi had
predicted - Graham [the godfather] did not faint. The rabbi then bent over
the baby and sucked the wound. I know this sounds awful, but it is part of
the Jewish tradition. It's supposed to help the healing." Jack Shamash.
"My Son on the Cutting Edge." Independent (London), no. 3,797 (Thursday,
December 17, 1998): p. R8.
"And what of the practice of sucking the bleeding penis? While condemning
the procedure, some physicians contend that it was used to stop
bleeding.47 Not only is there little evidence for this theory, but it was
also a largely ineffective method. Furthermore, even in antiquity,
surgeons had better methods to stop bleeding, such as pressure,
instruments, and medication.48 According to Dr. H. Speert (1953),
Maimonides 'staunchly supported this procedure [sucking the bleeding
penis] as a prophylactic measure against inflammation.'"49 Edward
Wallerstein. Circumcision: An American Health Fallacy. New York: Springer
Publishing Company. 1980. p. 160.
"mezizah -- Hebrew term for the third step in the Jewish circumcision
ritual, in which the mohel applies his mouth to the freshly circumcised
infant's penis and sucks up the first drops of blood. In more recent times
this procedure has been carried out via a tube, as infections, venereal
disease, and tuberculosis, sometimes resulting in the death of the infant,
have occurred due to contamination of the wound. Most Jewish circumcisors
today have eliminated this step from the circumcision ritual. Critics have
attributed sadistic and homosexual implications to this practice, while
defenders claim that this was simply all that was known during ancient
times to stop the bleeding." Rosemary Romberg. Circumcision: The Painful
Dilemma. South Hadley, Massachusetts: Bergin & Garvey, Publishers, Inc.
1985. p. 395.
"The traditional practice of metzitzah b'peh, which has its roots in the
earliest history of the Jewish people and has survived unchanged to the
present time, should be viewed with great respect. It is spoken of very
positively in the Jewish literature on circumcision both as an essential
part of the ritual and as a health measure which prevents infection and
promotes healing." Henry C. Romberg, M.D. Bris Milah: A book about the
Jewish ritual of circumcision. Jerusalem/New York: Feldheim Publishers.
1982. pp. 57-58.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More on Jewry's perverse practice of sucking the wound:
http://x62.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=645502261
Subject: The Criminal Nature of Circumcision
Date: 07/12/2000
Author: Michael <Mic...@universalway.org>
[...]
Circumcision is extremely painful and traumatic for a baby. In the male
version, the baby is placed spread-eagle on his back on a board and his
arms and legs are strapped down so that he can't move. His genitals are
scrubbed and covered with antiseptic. His foreskin is torn from the glans
and slit lengthwise so that the circumcision instrument can be inserted.
Then his foreskin is cut off, usually without anesthetic.
While this may appear to be an odd thing to do to a baby boy, the ancient
orthodox religious ritual is more bizarre. According to "The Universal
Jewish Encyclopedia"; "The circumcision rite consists of the following: .
. .3. metzitzah, the sucking of the wound, to staunch the blood, by means
of the mouth, as practiced in earlier times, or by means of a suction
cylinder or other modern methods in more recent times."
[...]
http://www.SexuallyMutilatedChild.org/
~~End of DejaCom Archive~~
http://x62.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=658781901
Subject: United Nations: Lieberman a Child Abuser!
Date: 08/16/2000
Author: Mikey <iam...@bellatlantic.net>
[...]
Here is some more information in the matter, particularly pertinent to
those who call themselves Orthodox Jews;
On page 214 of "The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia" (Universal Jewish
Encyclopedia, Inc., 1939), the following is found;
"The circumcision rite consists of the following: 1. milah, cutting off
the end of the upper prepuce; 2. periah, baring the glans by tearing or
cutting the tender lower prepuce and pushing it behind the glans; 3.
metzitzah, the sucking of the wound, to staunch the blood, by means of the
mouth, as practiced in earlier times, or by means of a suction cylinder or
other modern methods in more recent times."
On page/column 572 in Volume V of "Encyclopedia Judaica" (Keter Publishing
House, 1971), the following is found;
"The next stage is the performance of mezizah ('suction'). This has led to
much controversy in recent years. Throughout the ages this was done by
suction by the mouth in order, according to Maimonides, to remove the
blood from the distant parts of the wound (Maim. Yad, Milah, 2:2). It was
the recognized method of disinfection at the time. A mohel who refrained
from performing it was considered to be endangering the life of the child,
and had to be debarred from practice. Toward the middle of the 19th and
the beginning of the 20th century cases of syphilis, tuberculosis, and
diphtheria occurring in infants were ascribed to infection from mohalim
using this method of suction. This has been contested by a few Jewish
doctors, and some communities still follow the original practice. The
Paris Consistoire abolished mezizah in 1843."
[...]
The conclusion in the matter is that the "mezizah" is the stage of
circumcision where the mohel places his mouth on the baby's penis and
sucks the blood from the wound. And while many of the sects of Judaism
claim to no longer use the mezizah, it is clear that this stage was
performed by all sects for at least a millennia, and in fact, is still
performed in some Orthodox sects (by some people who condemn homosexuality
as a sin punishable by death -
http://www.universalway.org/Foreign/judaism-homo.html#DeadGays ), all of
which identifies the original nature of the ritual upon which the modern
operation is based.
Mohel sucking blood from baby's penis -
http://www.SexuallyMutilatedChild.org/mohel.htm
Thus, in the same manner that pedophilia is acknowledged as a repulsive
act of a criminal nature by many people and nations, the sucking of the
penis of a baby boy as part of the circumcision rite of Orthodox Jewish
Rabbis can even further establish the innate criminal nature of
circumcision, by placing the orthodox ritual squarely within the realm of
sexual child abuse of the same nature as pedophilia.
~~End of DejaCom Archive~~
More (January 14, 2001) on the Jewish perversion of "sucking the wound":
http://www.act-now.org/discuss/
This Discussion Group is moderated by a group of Mohel's
associated with ACT to whom you can post questions
you may have about circumcision.
http://www.act-now.org/discuss/_disc1/00000111.htm
What Are The Details Of "Mezizah," The Practice Of Sucking The Blood From
The Circumcision Wound?
From: Pat
Date: 10/19/99
Time: 2:32:54 AM
Comments
On a web page listing "Serious Complications Of Circumcision"
(http://faculty.washington.edu/gcd/DOC/foreskin.html), they mentioned
"Tuberculosis - via Mezizah, the practice of sucking the blood from the
circumcision wound, the mohel gives the disease to the infant."
What, exactly, are the details of this "Mezizah"?
And how prevalent through this obviously unsanitary practice is the spread
of tuberculosis and other diseases and infections?
<END>
http://www.faem.com/debate/a0809am.htm
[...]
"As for the bris milah (circumcision), there is no masturbation of the
child. In some Orthodox circles, the mohel, after the cutting, will fill
his mouth with wine, suck on the wound, and then spit out the wine and
blood mixture in his mouth. This is done to stanch the blood flow and
disinfect the wound -- not for sexual reasons. Most mohels no longer do
this." Andrew E. Mathis, Ph.D. 9 August 2000
<END>
http://www.torahcc.org/mishna/23-1-00/friday.htm
Torah Community Connection
Misha Yomit Program
Week 9 - Friday - 28 Jan. 2000
{...]
SHABBAT: CHAPTER 19: MISHNA 2
One may do all the needs of circumcision on Shabbat: one may circumcise,
and tear, and suck, and put on it a bandage and cumin. If he did not grind
before Shabbat, he may chew with his teeth and he may put. If he did not
mix wine and oil before Shabbat, he may put this by itself and this by
itself...
Kehati
This mishnah lists the needs of circumcision which may be performed on
Shabbat.
One may do all the needs of circumcision on Shabbat: one may circumcise -
circumcising and cutting the foreskin, and tear - the thin membrane under
the foreskin, which the mohel tears to reveal the corona, and suck - out a
small quantity of blood to cleanse the wound and put on it a bandage and
cumin - a type of plant, used for medicinal purposes.
<END>
In Their Own Words People!
Need I say more?
Doc Tavish
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