'Fear of Muslims benefits Europe's rightists' - article
The Enlightenment
> "We all just feel uneasy and afraid," said Ali Khan, 34, who moved to
> Denmark from Pakistan in 1998 but has not found steady work. "People
> just want to get out of here, to Britain or Canada or the United
> States."
>
>
> http://www.iht.com/cgi-bin/generic.cgi?template=articleprint.tmplh&ArticleId=530
> 31
> Fear of Muslims benefits Europe's rightists
>
> Peter Finn The Washington Post
> Saturday, March 30, 2002
>
> COPENHAGEN: A wave of anti-Muslim sentiment has bolstered far-right
> parties in some European countries since Sept. 11 and left the
> Continent's large communities of foreigners wondering how long their
> welcome will last.
>
> The changing mood has found its fullest political expression here in
> Denmark, where an anti- immigrant party won 12 percent of the vote in
> parliamentary elections in November, nearly doubling its showing from
> the previous election. Its campaign posters featured a picture of a
> young blond girl and the slogan: "When she retires, Denmark will have
> a Muslim majority."
>
> Now the Danish Parliament is considering a bill that would close many
> doors to the country, long known as one of Europe's most receptive to
> foreigners. It is host to about 300,000, most of them Muslims.
>
> Danes have a long history of tolerance of other religions and
> lifestyles, Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen told a group of
> Washington Post reporters and editors in Washington this week, citing
> the country's protection of Jews during World War II and its accepting
> Cold War refugees.
>
SNIP
Why should western nations be "morally obliged" to take in large
numbers of 3rd world immigrants? What has this to do with
"tollerance"?
This whole article is emotive and rhetorical, the issue is switched
from the legitimate right of Danes to control their immigration
program to the unfounded paranoia and fears and hate crime hoaxing
rhetoric. Neverthelss the facts still come through.
Danes had to endure a series of racialy targeted rapes that provoked
mass demonstartions, they had to endure insistance by some muslims of
the death for appostasy demand of hard line muslims and calls for
ampuitation and sharia in Danemark.
Why should a desire for appropriatly low immigration be misconstrued
with the pejorative implications 'racism'.
Why should the simple appreciation of the cohesiveness and beauty of
ones own culture be so viley slandered.
The reason is simply disgusting: invalid ethical blackmail, power
plays.
The latest edition of Scientic American has a map of net
immigration/emigration.
Europe is taking on about 1% of its population every year all from
asia and africa. Just like Australia.
Low western fertillity levels of between 1.7(France, Australia)
children per couple to 1.22(Italy) gurantee that europeans will be a
minority in 30-50 years.
There will be no white majority countries in the world, not even
european.
You mihg tnot care but have things worked so far in France,UK
Danemark. NO!
Yes a european heritage girl going to primary school in Australia will
be a minority BEFORE she retires.
Why? Really there is no reason, Europe has far far to many people
already, high enough land prices, enough car traffic, not enough
parkland or wilderness, immigration hardly improves aging of the
population and when one considers the expense of catering to
immigration dirven population growth it probably crushes natural
fertillity. The japanes in anycase have shown that despite only small
levels of illegal immigration or guest workers that simple automation
and different production methods can easily handle all of the required
manual work.
Cheap labour creates demand for cheap labour.
Interestingly the Scientic American article goes on to point out that
most western economies will not be able to generate the high qulaity
skilled and professional jobs that are targeted by migrants now.
"We all just feel uneasy and afraid," said Ali Khan, 34, who moved to
Denmark from Pakistan in 1998 but has not found steady work. "People
just want to get out of here, to Britain or Canada or the United
States."
Mass immigration to Danemark is simply stupid. Enough is enough.
http://www.iht.com/cgi-bin/generic.cgi?template=articleprint.tmplh&ArticleId=530
31
Fear of Muslims benefits Europe's rightists
Peter Finn The Washington Post
Saturday, March 30, 2002
COPENHAGEN: A wave of anti-Muslim sentiment has bolstered far-right
parties in some European countries since Sept. 11 and left the
Continent's large communities of foreigners wondering how long their
welcome will last.
The changing mood has found its fullest political expression here in
Denmark, where an anti- immigrant party won 12 percent of the vote in
parliamentary elections in November, nearly doubling its showing from
the previous election. Its campaign posters featured a picture of a
young blond girl and the slogan: "When she retires, Denmark will have
a Muslim majority."
Now the Danish Parliament is considering a bill that would close many
doors to the country, long known as one of Europe's most receptive to
foreigners. It is host to about 300,000, most of them Muslims.
Danes have a long history of tolerance of other religions and
lifestyles, Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen told a group of
Washington Post reporters and editors in Washington this week, citing
the country's protection of Jews during World War II and its accepting
Cold War refugees.
But today Denmark is having serious problems integrating its
immigrants, he said. Roughly half are unemployed, he said, and many
have no education. Moreover, there is cultural friction.
"Many Danes feel that too many immigrants do not respect Danish
values," he said.
Opinion polls show that increasing numbers of the 5.3 million citizens
of Denmark, an affluent, predominantly white and Lutheran country,
resent foreigners' heavy reliance on the welfare system. Many also
blame the newcomers for crime and worry that their communities harbor
terrorists.
Immigrants counter that they are being targeted unfairly and routinely
face discrimination.
"We all just feel uneasy and afraid," said Ali Khan, 34, who moved to
Denmark from Pakistan in 1998 but has not found steady work. "People
just want to get out of here, to Britain or Canada or the United
States."
Some refugees are becoming desperate. In December, a 16-year-old who
had fled to Denmark from Taliban-ruled Afghanistan set himself ablaze
with gasoline after he was ordered deported. He is recovering from his
burns.
Elsewhere in Europe, anti-immigrant parties have also gained support.
A branch of the Livable Netherlands party won 17 of 45 seats on the
Rotterdam local council this month, attracting more votes than any of
the three parties in the national coalition. In Italy and Germany as
well, anti-immigrant groups are growing in strength as they tap
long-standing fears about security and the dilution of national
identity.
Advances by the far right have exerted a gravitational pull on
establishment parties, which are responding to perceived public
demands to increase internal security, curb the arrival of newcomers -
especially nonwhites - and limit the rights of migrants already in the
country.
Long before Sept. 11, many white Europeans had deep-running concerns
that their countries were involuntarily becoming multicultural as
guest workers and refugees, mostly Muslim, established themselves in
residence. There are about 15 million Muslims in Europe, making Islam
the leading non-Christian religion.
The post-Sept. 11 concerns underscored a paradox that has cycled
through European politics for years: The Continent needs foreign
workers to gird an aging work force but is queasy about accepting
them, especially if they are Muslim.
"There is this fear for national identity combined with a fear of
Muslims that has fueled this debate on immigration," said Jan Niessen,
director of the Migration Policy Group, a research organization in
Brussels.
In a report on the fallout in the European Union from the terrorist
attacks against the United States, the European Monitoring Center on
Racism and Xenophobia in Vienna said the decision by some countries to
link immigration and anti-terrorism measures had created "an
atmosphere of insecurity and intolerance, especially in cases where
Muslims are presented as an 'internal security threat.'"
Before the September attacks, far-right parties running on
anti-immigrant themes had scored notable successes at the polls in
Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Norway, where votes from the far-right
Progress Party have provided the government with a working majority in
Parliament. The attacks seem to have heightened the popularity of such
parties. In the Netherlands, a country with a rich multiethnic texture
and 800,000 Muslims, nearly 50 percent of young people want no more
Muslim immigration, according to an opinion poll for the weekly
publication Nieuwe Revu.
"I think 16 million Dutchmen are about enough," Pim Fortuyn, the
former leader of the Livable Netherlands and author of "Against the
Islamization of Our Culture," told the newspaper De Volkskrant. "This
is a full country." He said Islam is a "backward culture" and
"Moroccan boys never steal from Moroccans. Have you noticed that?"
Political analysts in the Netherlands say Livable Netherlands and the
faction loyal to its former leader could end up as kingmakers in
Parliament after elections this year.
In Hamburg, where some of the Sept. 11 hijackers lived, the Party for
a Law and Order Offensive got 20 percent of the vote in state
elections after the attacks on the United States. Its leader, Judge
Ronald Schill, became the state interior minister. The German magazine
Der Spiegel quoted Schill as saying during his campaign that he wanted
to bring the "black African drug dealers and the knife-stabbing Turks"
to justice. Schill now says he may start a national campaign.
The main conservative opposition in Germany is threatening a court
challenge after passage last week of the country's first major
immigration bill, saying it does not do enough to curtail the influx
of foreigners. About half of the 7.3 million foreign residents in
Germany are Muslim.
In Italy, the government of Silvio Berlusconi has introduced a bill
calling for the expulsion of immigrants who enter the country
illegally.
In Denmark, the far-right Danish People's Party aimed much of its
campaign for the November elections at a foreign-born population that
is 70 percent Muslim. Its member of the European Parliament, Mogens
Camre, was quoted in the newspaper Politiken as saying, "All countries
of the Western world are infiltrated by Muslims - some of them speak
to us politely, while they wait until they are enough to kill all of
us."
Denmark's mainstream parties rejected the language of the People's
Party during the campaign. But the conservatives swept out the Social
Democratic government on the promise of clamping down on immigration.
"The message is clear: Stay out," said Mohammed Hassan Gelle, a Somali
who is head of the Ethnic Minorities Federation in Denmark.
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B J Foster
The Enlightenment wrote:
> "Stan Pierce" <spi...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<Gz7q8.9537$hi7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>
<snip>
>
> SNIP
>
> Why should western nations be "morally obliged" to take in large
> numbers of 3rd world immigrants? What has this to do with
> "tollerance"?
"Tolerance". Nothing.
>
> This whole article is emotive and rhetorical, the issue is switched
> from the legitimate right of Danes to control their immigration
> program to the unfounded paranoia and fears and hate crime hoaxing
> rhetoric. Neverthelss the facts still come through.
>
> Danes had to endure a series of racialy targeted rapes that provoked
> mass demonstartions, they had to endure insistance by some muslims of
> the death for appostasy demand of hard line muslims and calls for
> ampuitation and sharia in Danemark.
>
> Why should a desire for appropriatly low immigration be misconstrued
> with the pejorative implications 'racism'.
>
> Why should the simple appreciation of the cohesiveness and beauty of
> ones own culture be so viley slandered.
>
> The reason is simply disgusting: invalid ethical blackmail, power
> plays.
>
> The latest edition of Scientic American has a map of net
> immigration/emigration.
> Europe is taking on about 1% of its population every year all from
> asia and africa. Just like Australia.
>
> Low western fertillity levels of between 1.7(France, Australia)
> children per couple to 1.22(Italy) gurantee that europeans will be a
> minority in 30-50 years.
No they won't, because the migrants will be Europeans by then
>
> There will be no white majority countries in the world, not even
> european.
So what?
> You mihg tnot care but have things worked so far in France,UK
> Danemark. NO!
Please stick to English.
Actually I'm comfortable with any major European language but others
might object
>
> Yes a european heritage girl going to primary school in Australia will
> be a minority BEFORE she retires.
Unless she marries an English Pakistani migrant, then she'll be "a
minority" when she gets married
>
> Why? Really there is no reason, Europe has far far to many people
> already, high enough land prices, enough car traffic, not enough
> parkland or wilderness, immigration hardly improves aging of the
> population and when one considers the expense of catering to
> immigration dirven population growth it probably crushes natural
> fertillity.
You're dreaming. The Europeans have been fleeing Europe for centuries.
> The japanes in anycase have shown that despite only small
> levels of illegal immigration or guest workers that simple automation
> and different production methods can easily handle all of the required
> manual work.
> Cheap labour creates demand for cheap labour.
blah, blah, blah, snip!
(Get it? Nah, thought not)
Denis Wright
> There must be a push in Oz to deport the Muslims (not all, as some have
> taken up Oz values)
Lucky for you the Three Billy Goats Gruff aren't around....
Denis
The Enlightenment
> The Enlightenment wrote:
>
> > "Stan Pierce" <spi...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<Gz7q8.9537$hi7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > SNIP
> >
> > Why should western nations be "morally obliged" to take in large
> > numbers of 3rd world immigrants? What has this to do with
> > "tollerance"?
>
>
> "Tolerance". Nothing.
Good, so you agree that Danes have every natural right to control and
self determin their immigration rate and the makeup of their future
society.
>
>
> >
> > This whole article is emotive and rhetorical, the issue is switched
> > from the legitimate right of Danes to control their immigration
> > program to the unfounded paranoia and fears and hate crime hoaxing
> > rhetoric. Neverthelss the facts still come through.
> >
> > Danes had to endure a series of racialy targeted rapes that provoked
> > mass demonstartions, they had to endure insistance by some muslims of
> > the death for appostasy demand of hard line muslims and calls for
> > ampuitation and sharia in Danemark.
> >
> > Why should a desire for appropriatly low immigration be misconstrued
> > with the pejorative implications 'racism'.
> >
> > Why should the simple appreciation of the cohesiveness and beauty of
> > ones own culture be so viley slandered.
> >
> > The reason is simply disgusting: invalid ethical blackmail, power
> > plays.
> >
> > The latest edition of Scientic American has a map of net
> > immigration/emigration.
> > Europe is taking on about 1% of its population every year all from
> > asia and africa. Just like Australia.
> >
> > Low western fertillity levels of between 1.7(France, Australia)
> > children per couple to 1.22(Italy) gurantee that europeans will be a
> > minority in 30-50 years.
>
>
> No they won't, because the migrants will be Europeans by then
Many migrants of particularly of muslim extraction have not
assimilated or moved well towards a core culture; retaining
traditional dress, marrying arranged marriage brides (sometimes 1st
cousins) from the homeland, retaining loyalties to their
co-relgionists and their group. 3rd Gernation migrants in france
have not become french, Britsh Born Pakistanis fought with the Taliban
and rioted. The social changes are sometimes in your face ands
sometijes subtle.
Therefore in all likelihood there will not be cohesion in 40 years
time to the great deteriment to the common well being.
This is what the secular muslim Ibn Warrq, who is a Teacher of
Pakistani origin says:
Stephen Crittenden: There’s a great question here for the future
of multiculturalism, and in Australia, Islam has not been militant, it
is not an enemy of the nation of Australia, and suddenly the mood in
the country has changed. What do you think the future is for
multiculturalism in general?
Ibn Warraq: Well I agree, this is one of the things I mentioned in my
book six years ago. Incidentally, I don’t want to seem to be
smarter than anybody else. I was a teacher in London for five years in
the ‘70s when multiculturalism was the rage, and I was very much
for it because being from a minority culture, I realised the
importance of looking at non-Western cultures in a positive way. But I
now realise that we have gone too far, in that we have emphasised the
differences which has been disastrous for the community. Not only have
we emphasised the differences, we have accepted totally false
representations of what the West is. Every ill in the world, including
the Third World of course, has been attributed to the wicked West, and
there’s been incredible nonsense written about colonialism and
racism and so on, as though only the West was guilty of this. Of
course slavery and the Muslims were deeply implicated in the slave
trade, Islam was an Imperialist religion which destroyed Christianity
in the Near East, yet nobody mentions those facts.
You can read the complete interview on this ABC link:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt/stories/s386913.htm
>
>
> >
> > There will be no white majority countries in the world, not even
> > european.
>
>
> So what?
I think it may mean a loss of self determination, cultural
marginilisation and discrimination against cuacasions of western
culture.
>
>
> > You might not care but have things worked so far in France,UK
> > Danemark. NO!
>
>
> Please stick to English.
>
> Actually I'm comfortable with any major European language but others
> might object.
I've corrected the typos for you.
>
>
> >
> > Yes a european heritage girl going to primary school in Australia will
> > be a minority BEFORE she retires.
>
>
> Unless she marries an English Pakistani migrant, then she'll be "a
> minority" when she gets married
>
>
> >
> > Why? Really there is no reason, Europe has far far to many people
> > already, high enough land prices, enough car traffic, not enough
> > parkland or wilderness, immigration hardly improves aging of the
> > population and when one considers the expense of catering to
> > immigration dirven population growth it probably crushes natural
> > fertillity.
>
>
> You're dreaming. The Europeans have been fleeing Europe for centuries.
No I'm not:
http://www.sciam.com/2002/0202issue/0202numbers.html
Not since the 1960s. Migration continued for a time since then but
Ironically as there was an influx of migrants from turkey etc local
europeans were leaving.
Go figure.
>
> > The japanes in anycase have shown that despite only small
> > levels of illegal immigration or guest workers that simple automation
> > and different production methods can easily handle all of the required
> > manual work.
> > Cheap labour creates demand for cheap labour.
>
>
> blah, blah, blah, snip!
Indeed, becuase of Japans refusal to take large numbers of cheap
labour it developed automation and production techniques to minimize
this. Germany ended up with a great many guest workers and the US
with lots of migrants instead.
Robots and other forms of automation are actualy easy to use and
build; it does require a liuttkle more education and voiactiuonal
traing but it can be handled at the trade level and once installed
specail skill are no longer necessary.
By bringin in cherap labour we encourage cheap labour industries of
minimal benefit.
We are now focusing on skilled migration more and we are probably
starting to displace local IT people for instance.
> (Get it? Nah, thought not)
Rhetoric
Gully Foyle
Enlightenment) wrote:
Why do all counter arguments and pleas for "tolerance" carry the
implication that Muslims and Third Worlders in general are somehow
entitled to gain access to wealthy Western nations and welfare? This
only underscores just how unwelcome Westerners and their culture is in
Islamic countries.
peter terry
"The Enlightenment" <bern...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:39556695.02040...@posting.google.com...
> B J Foster <bjfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<3CA99C13...@yahoo.com>...
> > The Enlightenment wrote:
> >
> assimilated or moved well towards a core culture; retaining
>
Your a bloody idiot and clearly advocating neo nazi styled
philosophy where diversity in culture is neither tolerated and
is to be centrally controlled by the state. I guess your utopia
would see thought and culture police doing the rounds within the
community to ensure compliance to cultural uniformity in terms
of religion, dress and economic philosophy.You would have
made an excellent Taliban general given your views on
cultural engineering.
Has it ever occurred to you that the reasons behind why migrants
of different ethnicity tend to hang in together is because in the main
they are discriminated against by mainstream caucasian Australians.
We drive them to some degree into these cultural enclaves in much
the same way that over 200 years we destroyed the spirit of aboriginality.
What I love mostly about this country IS it's diversity of culture, dress,
foods, religions, opinions and ethnic approaches to problem solving....
Who the hell want's a country where everyone is philosophically like
your beloved transvestite Pauline Hansen, living solely on fish and chips?
(pun intended.)
>
> > There will be no white majority countries in the world, not even
> > european.
>
>I think it may mean a loss of self determination, cultural
>marginilisation and discrimination against cuacasions of western
>culture.
>
That's what it's all about with you "White Supremacist freaks", you
use the argument that we may loose our own white culture to justify
essential that your just a plain racist and a bigot. Christian's use the
same
kinds of argument to support their homophobia.
Discrimination takes a party of two to manifested where it becomes
a problem and of course if migrants to this country are racially
discriminated against by the like of you, they will in turn react in kind by
becoming introverts and living within so called enclaves with their own
ethnic kind.......it's human nature.
Has it ever occurred to you that nature has it's own way of engineering
genetic disposition to ensure survival of the species. That we are on the
cusp of where the next 500 years will see a world of massive population,
increase disease and environmental catastrophe. Perhaps the caucasian
races now genetically weakened by our capitalist system, the good life and
anti biotics need to be mixed with the more resilient and tougher
coloured races so that we can biologically survive over the next
500 years.
PeterT
peter terry
"Paul" <inv...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:3ca9...@news.alphalink.com.au...
>
> There must be a push in Oz to deport the Muslims (not all, as some have
> taken up Oz values)
>
> The supporters of the Muslim Invaders MUST be deported to ANY Muslim
country
> to solve the World Muslim problem in the Countries where the Muslims are a
> majority.
>
> Start the deportation with the bastards at the ABC.
>
> The fascist left at the ABC continue to preach at us about how wonderful
the
> Muslim invaders are that are resident now. It is notable that NO_ONE who
is
> apposed to this invasion gets a look-in or is allowed to speak when the
ABC
> runs there pro-Muslims propaganda shows.
>
> Dear Johnny.
>
> It is about time for a very large funding cut to the ABC. And yes, you
will
> see and hear the fascist lefties on the Airways and the Net and the
> newspapers. But, so what, the lefties don't vote for you anyway.
>
> At least a 2/thirds cut in the ABC staff is necessary.
The Enlightenment
> "The Enlightenment" <bern...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:39556695.02040...@posting.google.com...
> > B J Foster <bjfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<3CA99C13...@yahoo.com>...
> > > The Enlightenment wrote:
> > >
> > Many migrants of particularly of Muslim extraction have not
> > assimilated or moved well towards a core culture; retaining
> > traditional dress....blah blah blah
> >
Good day Peter,
First of all I point out that you snipped the above out of context.
It is OK to allow muslim migration, but in the context of
multiculturlism, secatairan schools and poorly funded public schools
this is dangerous for our future social cohesion. Singapore has
overcome its onece vilent race problems by integrated education.
> Your a bloody idiot and clearly advocating neo nazi styled
> philosophy where diversity in culture is neither tolerated and
> is to be centrally controlled by the state.
Multiculturalism IS controlled by the state. It is social engineering
and censorship of the 1st order. It costs BILLIONs every year. It is
ramned down our throats.
The expenditure is unable to be specifically and accurately
identified,
being hidden within other programs. Changing the names of departments
has become a tactic to try and disguise the costs of the industry i.e.
Ethnic Affairs has been absorbed into mainstream departments and
renamed under Community affairs. But costs from recognised researches
show the figures as follows; Stephen Rimmer put the annual costs at
$6.9 billion $6,900,000,000, ( 1991 ) Paul Shennan, Journalist Sydney
Morning Herald put the annual cost of the Infrastructure alone at
$2,000,000,000(1996).
I just want most, not all, of the money stopped. MC is a self
sustaining monster. I demand transparency.
Think of the public schools we could build, the teachers we could
resource and pay with this. Think of the additional capital freed
from infrastructure expansion to infrastructure improvement.
> I guess your utopia
> would see thought and culture police doing the rounds within the
> community to ensure compliance to cultural uniformity in terms
> of religion, dress and economic philosophy.You would have
> made an excellent Taliban general given your views on
> cultural engineering.
No.
Terry is doing what is called setting up a strawman. He then uses
this to misrepresent me and attacks it. It is a fallacious debating
tactic.
>
> Has it ever occurred to you that the reasons behind why migrants
> of different ethnicity tend to hang in together is because in the main
> they are discriminated against by mainstream caucasian Australians.
It has occured to me and I see no evidence of it. Infact to the
contrary Australias massive immigration experiment has been the
largest in the OECD. Australians behave better towards minorities
than just about any other nation. People are friendly and civil.
> We drive them to some degree into these cultural enclaves in much
> the same way that over 200 years we destroyed the spirit of aboriginality.
So you admit there are cultural enclaves and are saying Austrlains and
the migrants aren't compatible but you blame it on all those aussie
biggots?
Despit billions of annual expenditure.
>
> What I love mostly about this country IS it's diversity of culture, dress,
> foods, religions, opinions and ethnic approaches to problem solving....
These are all fine things and I sometimes enjoy them too but we have
enough now and we can all enjoy these when we travel as well.
We have intelligent people here already Peter, the old ockers you
decry set us all up with free university education. Diverstiy of
opinion, food is also a function of prosperity and travel. You can get
heaps of diversity on an overseas trip.
Now I'm actually advocating modest immigration and with respect for
peoples lamnguage and culture but not to the extent of promoting it by
government.
Now immigration has to come to a stop one day. It has to slow down
one day. it has to be driven for the benefitr of people here now.
Diversity at the people expense is tyrany.
> Who the hell want's a country where everyone is philosophically like
> your beloved transvestite Pauline Hansen, living solely on fish and chips?
> (pun intended.)
This attitude of your appals me; I am fortunate to have two degrees
and I am certainly not a battler but your elitist attitudes and
dislike of hard workers without your wankery activist background
simply stinks.
I get angry at the neglect of our average man and woman, our schools
and services to promote this fallacious immigration/diversty
dieversity virus.
The concerns of Austrlains should always come first; not international
concerns.
> >
> > > There will be no white majority countries in the world, not even
> > > european.
> >
> >I think it may mean a loss of self determination, cultural
> >marginilisation and discrimination against cuacasions of western
> >culture.
> >
> That's what it's all about with you "White Supremacist freaks",
I'm not a white supremacist.
You seem to be an anti-whit racist. Are you white?
> you use the argument that we may loose our own white culture to justify
> essential that your just a plain racist and a bigot.
Peter I am saying white culture will be either be lost on current
trends, completely or white culture, white perspective will be a
minority culture in every nation on earth. Do you want it to
disappear? it will be a unique self genocide perhaps.
What is your opinion, do you care? What are the consequences of this.
This paradox has never been explained. If it is OK to promote ethnic
culture why is it wrong to promote western culture?
> Christian's use the
> same kinds of argument to support their homophobia.
Most religions are homophobic, islam as well, though often in a sort
of paradoxical way. Christianity is on the whole pretty tollerant
these days.
I am atheist, not homophobic but not homophilic either.
>
> Discrimination takes a party of two to manifested where it becomes
> a problem and of course if migrants to this country are racially
> discriminated against by the like of you,
Hey I gone out with an Eurasian, I have pen friends in malaysia,
I've even been invidted to a wedding there (brides reception and yest
its muslim) I am friends with Afro-English people. I also love western
culture.
> they will in turn react in kind by
> becoming introverts and living within so called enclaves with their own
> ethnic kind.......it's human nature.
I don't reject people, I am alway smilling at the indian trades people
and Arab factry workers in my factory. I spend some time saying kind
things to them when S11 happened.
I am however a realist and I have seen profound anti-white racism, I
have seen ethnic on ethnic racism.
My biggest concern is social cohesion. do you know that in the US as
a white woman you are almost as likely to be raped by a black as a
white.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/relrpt/stories/s386913.htm
This is what a secular pakistani muslim says about MC
Ibn Warraq: Well I agree, this is one of the things I mentioned in my
book six years ago. Incidentally, I don’t want to seem to be
smarter than anybody else. I was a teacher in London for five years in
the ‘70s when multiculturalism was the rage, and I was very much
for it because being from a minority culture, I realised the
importance of looking at non-Western cultures in a positive way. But I
now realise that we have gone too far, in that we have emphasised the
differences which has been disastrous for the community. Not only have
we emphasised the differences, we have accepted totally false
representations of what the West is. Every ill in the world, including
the Third World of course, has been attributed to the wicked West, and
there’s been incredible nonsense written about colonialism and
racism and so on, as though only the West was guilty of this. Of
course slavery and the Muslims were deeply implicated in the slave
trade, Islam was an Imperialist religion which destroyed Christianity
in the Near East, yet nobody mentions those facts.
>
> Has it ever occurred to you that nature has it's own way of engineering
> genetic disposition to ensure survival of the species.
Evolution relies on death to selct success. It is brutal and
evolution is valid for culture as well.
> That we are on the
> cusp of where the next 500 years will see a world of massive population,
> increase
Western nations fertillity are on an unprecented decline. Italy is at
1.22 children per woman.
> disease and environmental catastrophe.
We can handle these things technologically. It is clear to me. I wish
I was doing that rather than debating so much overseas irrelvant shit
that takes up half this NG.
> Perhaps the caucasian
> races now genetically weakened by our capitalist system, the good life and
> anti biotics need to be mixed with the more resilient and tougher
> coloured races so that we can biologically survive over the next
> 500 years.
Sounds like what Hitler said about the German people as they were
facing defeat.
It is weekend by our beleifs. The beleifs will be destroyed if they
do not work, a footnote in someone elses history.
Marxism, femminism, western empiricsim, probably even anti-racism;
gone down the toilet.
You'll like this, Ive posted it for your amusement.
The Roman empire did not die any differently, though, it's true, more
slowly, whereas this time we can expect a more sudden conflagration. .
. . Christian charity will prove itself powerless. The times will be
cruel. -- Jean Raspail, introduction to the 1985 edition of The Camp
Of The Saints
Christianity, which many believe to be the noblest moral system ever
conceived, must now share blame for the dissolution of the West. A
faith that once served as an anchor for Western civilization has
become a source for the same self-flagellating guilt that typifies
liberalism. Today, Christianity's public expression differs only
cosmetically from Marxism in its attitudes towards economic
redistribution, equality and racial integration.
How has Christianity sunk so low--and our people with it? The answer
is that it has subverted inbred traits of altruism that help family
and tribe survive, and has transmuted those traits into agents of
passivity and surrender. Christianity has universalized altruism, thus
stripping us of our defense against multiracialism. Today's
Christianity drives us to betray our own interests to whoever asks. At
the same time, a preoccupation with eternal reward in the world to
come blinds some Christians to the consequences of their actions
today.
Christianity's Decline
Loss of racial loyalty is recent. For centuries, race consciousness
posed no moral dilemma to Christians. That "old-time religion" was
good enough for Charles Martel when he smashed the Muslim invasion of
Europe in 732 at Tours. It was good enough for Pope Urban II when he
launched the Crusades in 1095. It was good enough for Columbus and
Magellan, who claimed newly-discovered lands in the name of both king
and faith. It was good enough for European colonial masters who ruled
millions of non-whites, untroubled by egalitarian scruples.
Christianity's divorce from racial consciousness was both sudden and
recent. Only in the 20th century did "secular humanism" infiltrate
virtually every mainline Christian organization. By the 1960s,
organized Christianity was working hand in hand with organized Judaism
to dismantle the South's self-protective wall of racial hierarchy. The
universalist campaign continues to this day, with ordination of women
and soon, one fears, homosexuals.
What transformed the church? The problem is that Christian dogma has
always contained dangerous moral precepts that undermine the natural
instinct for group preservation. These precepts may be summarized
thus: Sacrifice yourself today for the benefit of others, buoyed by
faith in an "eternal reward."
In earlier times, this idea posed little danger to white survival
because it was preached by whites living in an almost all-white world.
Today, on a crowded planet filled with envious Third-World people, its
consequences are lethal. The mentality of sacrifice has resulted in an
inability to assert the imperative of survival--an imperative that
puts family, tribe and nation at the center of moral life.
Christianity must therefore share a major part of the blame for the
abnormal belief that we must commit racial suicide in order to be
"moral." This is not, of course, to lay blame solely on Christianity,
but neither should Christianity escape examination solely because it
has long been the guardian of the moral beliefs of Western peoples.
What then, are the beliefs that characterize today's self-destructive
Christianity? They are altruism and universalism. These two beliefs so
dominate public Christian discourse that they are contradicted from no
more than a handful of pulpits--even in the American South, where
ministers once invoked God in defense of segregation.
Altruism
Let us first consider altruism, the Good Samaritan reflex. The Golden
Rule--which is the ideal of Christian conduct--exalts altruism, or
acts beneficial to others without regard for one's own interests. If
followed by everyone, surely the Golden Rule would produce world peace
and harmony. In fact, universal altruism has unintended consequences,
some of which are shocking to Christian sensibilities. Biologist and
human ecologist, Garrett Hardin, explained why in his 1968 essay, "The
Tragedy of the Commons:" "Conscience is self-eliminating from a
population." (The tragedy of the commons is the tendency to
over-exploit any resource that is available for all to share but that
exacts little or no cost from any one user.) Prof. Hardin first makes
his point with respect to voluntary birth control, then generalizes
it:
People vary. Confronted with appeals to limited breeding, some people
will undoubtedly respond to the plea more than others. Those who have
more children will produce a larger fraction of the next generation
than those with more susceptible consciences . . . . The argument here
has been stated in the context of the population problem, but it
applies equally well to any instance in which society appeals to an
individual exploiting a commons to restrain himself for the general
good--by means of his conscience. To make such an appeal is to set up
a selective system that works toward the elimination of conscience
from the race.
Conscience is eliminated because it is not randomly distributed in a
population but is to some degree inherited from parents. Even if
willingness to restrict breeding for the good of all is only slightly
heritable, an appeal to conscience will steadily remove it from the
population. The fact that self-sacrificing conscience, or in a broader
sense, unfettered altruism, is self-eliminating is a fundamental truth
with which any lasting moral order must contend.
There must be a dual code of morality--one for one's own group and
another for everyone else. Harsh as this may sound both to Christians
and non-Christians, nature will inexorably eliminate the flawed genes
of any group that fails to make this distinction.
In fact, we take the dual code for granted. We devote much of our
lives to rearing our own children but we ignore the children of
strangers--an obvious double standard. We save the lives of our
comrades in battle but we kill the enemy--another double standard. The
universal altruism of the Golden Rule undercuts both forms of group
loyalty. After all, we might well wish that strangers would devote
themselves to our children. If we took the Golden Rule seriously we
might then devote ourselves to the children of others and neglect our
own. Likewise the Golden Rule might require us to betray our own side
to the enemy, inasmuch as that is what we might want done for us.
Clearly, groups and individuals that behaved this way would not pass
on their perverted morality to many descendants.
Some will object that Prof. Hardin's prediction about the
self-elimination of conscience is demonstrable false, since it still
exists. Nevertheless, what matters is the time scale.
Conscience-obsessed Western man is declining in numbers, and his
morality and behavior are declining with him.
Universalism
Today's Christians have confused the Biblical injunction to be our
brother's keeper--a moral code based on blood kinship--with the
opposite notion that every human on earth is our brother. More than a
century ago, Pierre-Joseph Proudhon observed, "If everyone is my
brother, I have no brothers." Prof. Hardin adds: "Universalism is
altruism practiced without discrimination of kinship,
acquaintanceship, shared values, or propinquity in time or space."
Biblical testimony on universalism is, in fact, mixed. The Old
Testament praises altruism only within the community, and commands the
Children of Israel to shun other peoples. For example, Deuteronomy
7:2-3 reads: "
2 When the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee, thou shalt
smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with
them, nor shew mercy unto them; 3 Neither shalt thou make marriages
with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his
daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. . . ."
One finds national and presumably racial separatism in the New
Testament as well. Acts 17:26 reads, "[He] hath made of one blood all
nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath
determined the times before appointed and the bounds of their
habitation." Matthew 25:31-32, in which Christ speaks of his future
reign, adds:
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels
with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory: And before him
shall be gathered all nations; and he shall separate them one from
another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." But all too
often the New Testament, particularly in the letters of Paul, promotes
universalism. Today's Christians love to cite passages such as
Galatians 3:28-29: " 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither bond or free, male or female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs
according to the promise.
Christianity Today
It is on the basis of passages like this that Christianity has
abandoned the defense of our people and has become an accomplice of
those who would displace us. The National Council of Churches donated
money to Marxist revolutionaries in Africa--revolutionaries who
sometimes murdered white missionaries. The Southern Baptist
Convention's leadership recently bowed before its one black member,
apologizing for slavery and racism. Typically, the black member showed
little gratitude for the gesture, complaining that not nearly enough
had been done to alleviate the lingering effects of slavery.
Like their atheist counterparts, Christian trend-setters preach what
amounts to the dissolution of the white race. Christian Coalition
founder, Pat Robertson, supports more immigration from "south of the
border" because the newcomers are nominally "Christian," support
"family values," and are "our kind of voters."
Mr. Robertson seems not to realize that Mestizo Christianity is often
based on "revolution theology," and its symbol is a Christ-figure with
arms upraised, brandishing an AK-47 assault rifle. Revolution theology
will help create "Aztlan," the Bronze Continent, the new home of La
Raza--literally, "the race." Even a nominally Christian Aztlan would
effectively decapitate Christianity as Mr. Robertson understands it,
since altruistic universalist Christianity is largely a habit of
Western people.
Billy Graham goes one further and says that the only solution to our
race problem is for us to breed with non-whites until human
differences disappear. He says we must take alien peoples into our
hearts and our homes and, yes, "into our marriages."
With ministers preaching racial suicide, Christianity may now be more
of a threat to our survival than liberalism. At least with liberalism,
one recognizes the enemy. But when Christian leaders take liberal
positions, they leave the flock defenseless. Ralph Reed and Billy
Graham are our opponents, no less than Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy.
The Wall Street Journal recently ran a front page story titled "Racial
Reconciliation Becomes a Priority For the Religious Right:"
[T]he most energetic element of society [today] addressing racial
divisions may also seem the most unlikely: the religious right.
"Across the country, conservative congregations and denominations,
while sticking to other stringent principles of conservative religious
thinking such as the proscription of homosexuality and abortion, are
embracing a concept called `biblical racial reconciliation'--a belief
that as part of their efforts to please God, they are required by
Scripture to work for racial harmony.
If even "the Christian right" has become part of the rout of
traditional Christianity; it is because the New Testament opens the
door to universalism. Oswald Spengler wrote that "Christian theology
is the grandmother of Bolshevism," and indeed, ministers routinely
preach the "social" gospel, invoking a universalism that differs
little from the agenda of the radical left.
A Chimera
Yet ironically, the universalist goal is a chimera. Since those who
displace us do not, by definition, maintain our moral standards--for
if they did they would not be replacing us--our flawed moral system
will vanish with us. As Prof. Hardin explains in his 1982 essay,
"Discriminating Altruisms," "[universalism] cannot survive in
competition with discrimination." A group that practices universal
altruism--and whites are the only group that does--cannot compete
against groups that do not.
Some Christians would say that none of this matters because believers
will one day ascend to their reward in Heaven. However, the vision of
Heaven can subvert the imperative of survival. If, in their fervor to
enter Heaven, Christians fail to have children or to build a nation in
which their children can maintain their way of life, the race will not
continue. It is worth noting that Heaven is an entirely personal
reward, which can be pursued at the expense of family, tribe or race.
Selfishness thus joins universalism in modern Christianity, completely
inverting nature's design of loyalty to family and tribe.
Christianity's flaws did not threaten us until technology and ideology
made their consequences felt on a world-wide scale. Now, our moral
code must renounce universalism and emphasize our own survival. Unless
we adopt moral beliefs in keeping with the realities of today's
demographics, we will not survive the mounting wave of Third World
immigration, procreation and miscegenation. It is in this sense that,
as Jean Raspail says, "Christian charity will prove itself powerless."
Christian charity can hardly stop a demographic displacement that it
helped set in motion.
Christians must return to that "old-time religion." Today's version is
destroying us.
peter terry
"The Enlightenment" <bern...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:39556695.02040...@posting.google.com...
>
> Christians must return to that "old-time religion." Today's >version is
destroying us.
>
Goodness me you ARE a product of the extreme right, that new neo fascism we
see rising it's ugly head from time to time until eventually the people kick
it back into it's Neanderthal origins.
My I suggest you further educate yourself on the history of the Roman Church
and it's actual effects on civilisation, given your so obsessed with
dragging society back to the dark ages when secular society was controlled
by religious bigots and cuccophants of the kinds you seem to think are just
so wonderful.
PeterT
Petzl
Christians of today do have very remote outbursts of nuttiness I
suppose? to me they are proving beneficial to our society (that's
today not 200 years ago)
Muslims need to be shut down as unacceptable life threatening nonsense
with no place in society. Absolutely the opposite of peace and love
I am sure any Christian group that started murdering people operating
Terror training camps and hiding terrorists would be
Close all Mosques down they are complete and utter dangerous arses not
liked at all by the community (what's more they always have been)
I suspect that the sale of sheep meet to them (Muslim Countries) is
the misguided reason for putting up with this threat. I were in Japan
a while ago and tried some non Australian sheep meat it stank putrid,
When I found some Australian OK Kiwi mutton (couldn't find OZ lamb?)
my Japanese hosts were most impressed
If these Muslim dirt want to eat shit let them. Ozzie and kiwi mutton
are a mouth watering taste of it's own (& I have an Arab friend who
agree's, His family could not get over how nice mutton tasted in
Australia. He also enjoy's the climate of friendliness.)
Petzl
plain talking weight loss that works
http://www.geocities.com/petzlx/Diet.htm
peter terry
"Petzl" <Pe...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:en0raucrfaumlaruo...@4ax.com...
>
> I am sure any Christian group that started murdering people operating
> Terror training camps and hiding terrorists would be
>
directly murdered millions of innocent people due primarily to the fact that
their beliefs differed to those of their own Roman Catholicism. The Church
started assassinating heretics right from the time of St. Paul.
While the likes of Un Enlightened says he wants a return to the religious
totalitarianism of old what he doesn't tell you is that Catholics not only
murdered Muslims but millions of their own kind..I refer to the Albigension
Crusades and the long hatred against Jews.
Not to mentions the wars between the Protestant and Catholic allegiances
which resulted from what they called the "Roman Inquisition" where millions
were butchered to death.
While we may be shocked at the values and religious laws peddled by the
Taliban, Christianity use to be far far worse in it's draconian traditions.
Goodness knows why Un-Enlightened would want a return to the bad old day of
fascism delivered by religious monsters.
PeterT
peter terry
"The Enlightenment" <bern...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:39556695.02040...@posting.google.com...
>
> peoples lamnguage and culture but not to the extent of promoting it by
> government.
>
yourself further
on what it you really want rather than simply parroting the One Nation
handbook on
Immigration, social interaction and cultural exchange.
While you might personally attempt to resist change the rest of the world is
gonna
roll you over as it assumes a new direction for a more tolerant relationship
between
countries, culture and religions. White supremacists such as yourself will
left
behind chanting their KKK slogans and without any audience of any
significants.
PeterT
Petzl
<namb...@iprimus.cxm.au> wrote:
>
>"Petzl" <Pe...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>news:en0raucrfaumlaruo...@4ax.com...
>>
>While we may be shocked at the values and religious laws peddled by the
>Taliban, Christianity use to be far far worse in it's draconian traditions.
>Goodness knows why Un-Enlightened would want a return to the bad old day of
>fascism delivered by religious monsters.
>
>PeterT
>
>
>
There is no may about it shocked and disgusted by Muslim operatives
world wide This is for TODAYS world- not your version of christianity
200 years ago
I also saw Palestinians dancing for joy and happiness at the deaths of
thousands of American civilians.
Not only in Palestine but the overdose of muslim Palestinian rubbish
that Australia has accepted as refugees, bringing along with the
shootings rapes and crime
peter terry
> On Sat, 6 Apr 2002 12:18:41 +1000, "peter terry"
> <namb...@iprimus.cxm.au> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Petzl" <Pe...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> >news:en0raucrfaumlaruo...@4ax.com...
> >>
>
> >While we may be shocked at the values and religious laws peddled by the
> >Taliban, Christianity use to be far far worse in it's draconian
traditions.
> >Goodness knows why Un-Enlightened would want a return to the bad old day
of
> >fascism delivered by religious monsters.
> >
> >PeterT
> >
> >
> >
> There is no may about it shocked and disgusted by Muslim operatives
> world wide This is for TODAYS world- not your version of christianity
> 200 years ago
>
context rather isolation certain components you think better
justifies your prejudices. The Christian West as a result of cruel
sanctions on Iraq which have proven to be completely without effect
anyway in terms of dislodging Saddam, murdered 500,000 Iraq
women and children. That's UNICEF statistics not mine.
Get the drift!
>
> I also saw Palestinians dancing for joy and happiness at the deaths of
> thousands of American civilians.
>
I also saw Americans and Australians dancing for joy and gloating over the
revenge bombing of Afghanistan where 3500 civilians were wiped out by
US dumb bombs!
>
> Not only in Palestine but the overdose of muslim Palestinian rubbish
> that Australia has accepted as refugees, bringing along with the
> shootings rapes and crime
>
Said like the typical racist ignorant cunts that frequent KKK and
the One Nation white supremacist groups. Your an idiot with no
basis or evidence to support your babble....piss off pinhead!!
PeterT
Seppo Renfors
The Enlightenment wrote:
>
> "peter terry" <namb...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message news:<3caa7...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
> > "The Enlightenment" <bern...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:39556695.02040...@posting.google.com...
> > > B J Foster <bjfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:<3CA99C13...@yahoo.com>...
> > > > The Enlightenment wrote:
> > > >
[..]
>
> > Your a bloody idiot and clearly advocating neo nazi styled
> > philosophy where diversity in culture is neither tolerated and
> > is to be centrally controlled by the state.
>
> Multiculturalism IS controlled by the state. It is social engineering
> and censorship of the 1st order. It costs BILLIONs every year. It is
> ramned down our throats.
It doesn't cost a single fucken CENT - now prove me wrong!
> The expenditure is unable to be specifically and accurately
> identified,
> being hidden within other programs. Changing the names of departments
> has become a tactic to try and disguise the costs of the industry i.e.
> Ethnic Affairs has been absorbed into mainstream departments and
> renamed under Community affairs. But costs from recognised researches
> show the figures as follows; Stephen Rimmer put the annual costs at
> $6.9 billion $6,900,000,000, ( 1991 ) Paul Shennan, Journalist Sydney
> Morning Herald put the annual cost of the Infrastructure alone at
> $2,000,000,000(1996).
BBWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
Oh stop...... I can't laugh any more...... my sides hurt.... PAUL
SHEEHAN...... HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAA...... PAUL... aaaahaaahhh... you
are killing me..... you fuckwit rabbit actually BELIEVE that
discredited idiot?? Hehehehehe.......
Hey, next you'll be quoting Mein Kampf as a source of "intelligence"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....
[can't read any further.... 'cause the tears from laughing too much]
BBWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa.........
--
SIR -Philosopher Unauthorised
------------------------------------------------------------------
" Don't resent getting old. A great many are denied that privilege "
---------------------------------------------------------------
peter terry
"Seppo Renfors" <Ren...@not.ollis.net> wrote in message
news:3CADAFE3...@not.ollis.net...