"Chinaman" - an ever-changing definition
MadChinaman
people have used this word as a word of empowerment, a description of a
negative stereotypes, etc.
recent "aa" writers have started using this word as a tool of
empowerment.
walter wrote:
Could you provide a reference? How does a degoratory term become
empowering?
** according to my research, the word "chinaman" didn't originate as a
derogatory term. during the 1800's, it was used by the white population
and interpreted by the chinese communities as a derogatory term. in
california, the word is not heard (never mind used) much in any
conversation or reference(s).
an example would the word "yankee" that started as a derogatory term
used by the british as a definition of the "new" united states. since
we won the war, it changed from being a derogatory term to a positive
phrase.
** to directly answer your question, some blacks used the "n" word as a
term of empowerment. usually to each other, part of a music group's
name (nwa), etc.
** i'm doing research because nobody seems to have any documentation
and/or supporting evidence of the definition and/or usage.
** in the same vein, at asian man records, there is a group called "the
chinkees" - do people think that this term is derogatory. if so, why.
if not, same questions.
i hope my answers addresses your question(s)?
**
Walter Lee
"MadChinaman" <j...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3B1B113C...@earthlink.net...
> MadChinaman <j...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> people have used this word as a word of empowerment, a description of a
> negative stereotypes, etc.
>
> recent "aa" writers have started using this word as a tool of
> empowerment.
>
> walter wrote:
> Could you provide a reference? How does a degoratory term become
> empowering?
>
>
> ** according to my research, the word "chinaman" didn't originate as a
> derogatory term. during the 1800's, it was used by the white population
> and interpreted by the chinese communities as a derogatory term. in
> california, the word is not heard (never mind used) much in any
> conversation or reference(s).
During the 1800s - my history readings of original prose by whites
indicates that chinese were also called orientals, asiatics,
celestials, and yellow man. Chinese were normally held in very
low regard by whites in the USA. Whites in China (particularly
christian missionaries and merchants ) were sometimes more
respectful but this was not always the case either. IMHO -
chinese were held in a much higher regard by whites/european
if one talks of writing written before 1750.
.
>
> an example would the word "yankee" that started as a derogatory term
> used by the british as a definition of the "new" united states. since
> we won the war, it changed from being a derogatory term to a positive
> phrase.
Yankee is still considered mildly derogatory but its positive use
e.g. "Yankee Clipper" came about because the USA beat the
pants off the British in the Revolutionary War - I for one -
don't wish China to beat the pants off the USA - just to alter
the meaning of a word - losing a war is a rather
drastic way to alter the meaning of a word....
>
> ** to directly answer your question, some blacks used the "n" word as a
> term of empowerment. usually to each other, part of a music group's
> name (nwa), etc.
"nigger" is still consider very degoratory by blacks when spoken
by a non african american. IMHO when used among only black the term
"nigger" is not a term of empowerment but a term of brotherhood
by social stigma. Its also used by some blacks as a measure of
street "toughness" - e.g. yo is some bad ass nigger. The term
I believe has morphed into "nigga." By street "toughness"
I am referring to the ability to fight or physically command others
by social stature/force and is only used the young adults - older
african americans don't use such terms. I agree that some
african american music does use the term "nigger." but
I see it as more attune to Mark Twain's use of the venacular/
colloquial - to give prose a more realistic feel-emotion
rather than a effort to empower african americans.
>
> ** i'm doing research because nobody seems to have any documentation
> and/or supporting evidence of the definition and/or usage.
My dictionary say the term "chinaman" was first popularized about 1849.
another source one might try is...
Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, A-G (Vol.1)
J.E. Lighter (Editor), et.al. ( Hardcover May 1994)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0394544277/qid=991718700/sr=1-2/ref=sc_b_2/002-0305533-411767
5
one should be able to find it in the Library reference section. That might be a good
place to start...
>
> ** in the same vein, at asian man records, there is a group called "the
> chinkees" - do people think that this term is derogatory. if so, why.
> if not, same questions.
sounds like the monkees....
hmmmmm songs I would expect to hear......
Last Bus to Chinatown
(Sung to the tune "Last Train to Clarksville" Words and Music by
Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart)
=============
Take the last bus to Chinatown,
And I'll meet you at the bus-stop.
You can be be there by four thirty,
And you'll catch express service '.
Don't be slow, oh, no, no, no!
Oh, no, no, no!
After I go in to morrow morning
You won't be at my side
So lets spend one more nite together
Before morn' brings my ride.
And I must go, oh, no, no, no!
Oh, no, no, no!
Can't let the I-N-S officer catch me at home.
Take the last bus to Chinatown.
I'll be waiting by the sign.
We can munch on wasabi flavored peas
And talk in silly rhymes
Oh... Oh, no, no, no!
Oh, no, no, no!
Take the last train to Chinatown,
Now I must hang up the phone.
I can't hear you at this noisy
bus stop here all alone.
I'm feelin' low. Oh, no, no, no!
Oh, no, no, no!
Can't let the I-N-S officer catch me at home.
Take the last train to Chinatown,
Take the last train to Chinatown,
[repeat and fade]
"I'm a Buddha-Head"
( sung to the tune "I'm a Believer" By Neil Diamond)
=====================================
I thought religion was for fanatics
Meant for zealot freaks but not for me.
Faith was out to get me
That's how it really seemed.
To tell me what my life is suppose to means.
Then I saw his face, now I'm a buddha head
( ooh it's the Dai Lama )
Not a trace of doubt in my mind.
I'm at peace, I'm a buddha-head!
Know I'm gonna get reborn.
I thought faith was more or less a giving game,
Seems the more I gave the less I got.
Damnation - donations it was all the same
All you get is pain.
When I needed sunshine I got rain.
Then I saw his face, now I'm a buddha-head
( ooh it's the Dai Lama )
Not a trace of doubt in my mind.
I'm at peace, I'm a buddha-head!
Know I'm gonna get reborn.
now I'm a buddha-head
ooh it's the Dai Lama
yeah, yeah, yeah....
now I'm a buddha-head
ooh it's the Dai Lama
(Theme) The Chinkees
==================
( sung to the tune the theme of the Monkees By Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart )
Here we come, walkin'
Down the street.
We get the racist remarks from
Ev'ry one we meet.
Hey, hey, we not Chinkees
Even if people force us into chinatown .
But we just too busy working
To put anybody down.
We bring our family from china tooo
do what we like to do
We don't have time to get restless,
Caus'e we not rich manchus.
Hey, hey, we not Chinkees
Even if people force us into chinatowns.
But we just too busy working
To put anybody down.
We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us work and play,
We're from that asiatic nation,
And we've got something to say.
Any time, Or anywhere,
If you see pigtails below the shoulders.
Guess who'll be standing there
Hey, hey, we not Chinkees
Even if people force us into chinatown .
But we just too busy working
To put anybody down.
(break)
Hey, hey, we not Chinkees
But people want to deport us out
But we not gonna be quiet
we're going a complain and shout
We're just tryin' to be friendly,
Come and watch us work and play,
We're from that oriental nation,
And we've got something to say.
Hey, hey, we not chinkees
Hey, hey, we not Chinkees
[repeat and fade]
Don Kirkman
<E50T6.218$bZ6....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>:
{I hope I got the attributions right]
>"MadChinaman" <j...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:3B1B113C...@earthlink.net...
>> MadChinaman <j...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> walter wrote:
>>> Could you provide a reference? How does a degoratory term become
>>> empowering?
>> ** according to my research, the word "chinaman" didn't originate as a
>> derogatory term. during the 1800's, it was used by the white population
>> and interpreted by the chinese communities as a derogatory term. in
>> california, the word is not heard (never mind used) much in any
>> conversation or reference(s).
[...]
>> ** i'm doing research because nobody seems to have any documentation
>> and/or supporting evidence of the definition and/or usage.
>My dictionary say the term "chinaman" was first popularized about 1849.
It's hard to guess how the term was used 150 years ago, but that was
also a time when Welshman, Irishman, Dutchman, Frenchman, and the like
were commonly used. The main obvious difference is that Welsh, Irish,
and the rest are adjectives while China is a noun. The corresponding
adjective would have been Chinese, I guess, but if that was used there
was no reason to add 'man.'
My hunch, unprovable, is that the words themselves were all neutral
daily-use terms, but that the nastiness of Chinaman came from some/many
speakers' anti-Chinese feelings and intentions, not from the term
itself.
[...]
>"I'm a Buddha-Head"
>( sung to the tune "I'm a Believer" By Neil Diamond)
>=====================================
>I thought religion was for fanatics
>Meant for zealot freaks but not for me.
>Faith was out to get me
>That's how it really seemed.
>To tell me what my life is suppose to means.
>Then I saw his face, now I'm a buddha head
>( ooh it's the Dai Lama )
>Not a trace of doubt in my mind.
>I'm at peace, I'm a buddha-head!
>Know I'm gonna get reborn.
Buddhahead [sometimes Butahead? = pig head] and Katonk (the sound of a
hard coconut) were traditional terms used (facetiously) by Japanese
Americans, primarily between Hawaiian JAs (Buddhaheads) and mainland
(Katonks). Perhaps the general population in Hawaii knows (and uses)
these terms, but I haven't heard them on the mainland for a long long
time, and even then only in JA contexts. Are you going off in a
different direction here?
IOW, nothing to do (AFAIK) with being Buddhist per se.
[...]
--
Don
don...@covad.net