Islamic scholar tells women to refrain from 'evil'
hab...@anony.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97N4KeGtid4&feature=related
and morality among monkeys
uNmaiviLambi
> and morality among monkeys
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUKci7sHg6M&feature=related
This second one is so hilarious!!
P. Rajah
More hilarious than this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFBHxOaREE
uNmaiviLambi
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> > This second one is so hilarious!!
>
> More hilarious than this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFBHxOaREE
Cow urine has nothing to do with religion! The video is authentic
islam!
Also think about Premarin tablet! There are medicines from urine!
M. Ranjit Mathews
> On Nov 26, 11:49 pm, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> > uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> > > This second one is so hilarious!!
>
> > More hilarious than this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsFBHxOaREE
>
> Cow urine has nothing to do with religion!
Then, are cow urine drinkers mostly non-Hindus since a majority of the
world's population are non-Hindus?
uNmaiviLambi
wrote:
Kabaddi is played by Hindus. Does it mean Kabaddi, palaangguzhi,
kolattam, manju virattu are as per religion?
P. Rajah
Nobody drinks the urine of pregnant horses, or makes "edible" products
the way the lunatic sanghis do. Estrogens in the urine of pregnant mares
are extracted and capsulized. There is nothing in cows' urine that is
demonstrated to be of any medicinal value, particularly when ingested
whole. What's next, cow turd dhokla?
Mirza Ghalib
Yes. Nothing hilarious about cow urine. But an Islamic
man telling others to refrain from sin? Ha, Ha, Ha ....
Mirza Ghalib
Hey, an ox's testicles are considered a delicacy among the Christians
of Europe. So are the pig's entrails (fried and salted).. How do you,
a Christian, defend these practices?
P. Rajah
I'm not a "Christian", in the sense that you might perceive. That said,
eating ox's testicles or pig's entrails are not practices enjoined on
people as having basis in religion or religious faith. Fried pig's
entrails, btw, are known as chitterlings or chitlins, and were consumed
by the poor out of necessity, not just in Europe, but in various parts
of the world. It is also a staple in American "soul cooking", a remnant
from the slave days when black slaves acquired a taste for this
otherwise discarded offal. It has absolutely nothing whatever to do with
religion, and neither are there any prohibitions against it, at least
not amongst Christians.
On the other hand, the lunatic RSS and VHP are promoting the use of cow
urine and cow dung based "products"(go-ka-cola, dung toothpaste, urine
aftershave, etc.) as part of an ignorant and backward agenda promoting
the religious "sanctity" of the cow, trying to inculcate a mindset of
acceptance of dangerous practices in what is a country already beset by
poor health and sanitation. Your comparison of this distasteful agenda
with culinary free choice in Europe is disingenuous in the extreme.
Would you say that the practice of consuming tiger penis soup and monkey
brain in East Asia is endorsed and/or sanctified by Buddhism, Shintoism,
Taoism, and other religious affiliations of the local population?
Btw, ox testicles are not a "delicacy" in Europe or North America.
Rather, they are an "exotic" dish, although mostly used to make pet
treats. A "delicacy"(for Europeans or Indians) would be things like
foie gras, zeppole, the Alphonso mango, bagda chingri paturi, plum
pudding, rosquillas, payasam, salmiakki, grilled lamprey, szilvas
gomboc, halva, peda or baklava. Know the difference.
http://www.tv.com/bizarre-foods-with-andrew-zimmern/show/71719/episode.html
I'm curious as to why you are so defensive of an attempt to
simultaneously fool Hindus and keep them in a medieval mindset, while
blinding them to good hygiene and sanitation practices. What Hinduism
needs to do is not ossify and fossilise into the VHP vision of 6th
century rigidity, but adapt, evolve and become progressive. When I
browse various forums on the internet, I find that any criticism of some
aspect of Indian life automatically seems to elicit allegations that the
writer is a Paki, a Muslim, a Christian, a mullah, a missionary, a white
racist, an American n*gger, etc. Totally knee-jerk reaction, and
probably the primary reason why India struggles with modernization.
Unwillingness to accept or even consider shortcomings is not at all
conducive to resolving them.
P. Rajah
Is kabaddi played by Hindus on the basis that it is a sacred Hindu game?
That is the difference between general practices and those sought to be
imposed under the guise of religious sanction, as the BJP, RSS and VHP
are attempting to do with cow urine and cow dung. Of course, someone
like you who will not admit that tomatoes, potatoes and corn only came
to India in the past 500 years will not likely have the integrity to
acknowledge the difference.
uNmaiviLambi
> uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> Is kabaddi played by Hindus on the basis that it is a sacred Hindu game?
> That is the difference between general practices and those sought to be
> imposed under the guise of religious sanction, as the BJP, RSS and VHP
> are attempting to do with cow urine and cow dung. Of course, someone
> like you who will not admit that tomatoes, potatoes and corn only came
> to India in the past 500 years will not likely have the integrity to
> acknowledge the difference.
I am not aware of what the BJP or any one else does in this regard.
You say so. But whatever any one does in the name of Hinduism, if they
do, is wrong. So you have no case.
I already said cow urine is not from religion at all
Christians justify many things on the basis of religion such as not
watching TV,avoiding transport by cars etc etc but I do not think this
has anything to do with their books. Nor am I convinced female
mutilation has anything to do with Islam, does not matter what people
do.
Mirza Ghalib
> Mirza Ghalib wrote:
> > On Nov 28, 5:29 pm, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> On the other hand, the lunatic RSS and VHP are promoting the use of cow
> urine and cow dung based "products"(go-ka-cola, dung toothpaste, urine
> aftershave, etc.) as part of an ignorant and backward agenda promoting
> the religious "sanctity" of the cow, trying to inculcate a mindset of
> acceptance of dangerous practices in what is a country already beset by
> poor health and sanitation. Your comparison of this distasteful agenda
> with culinary free choice in Europe is disingenuous in the extreme.
> Would you say that the practice of consuming tiger penis soup and monkey
> brain in East Asia is endorsed and/or sanctified by Buddhism, Shintoism,
> Taoism, and other religious affiliations of the local population?
>
> Btw, ox testicles are not a "delicacy" in Europe or North America.
> Rather, they are an "exotic" dish, although mostly used to make pet
> treats. A "delicacy"(for Europeans or Indians) would be things like
> foie gras, zeppole, the Alphonso mango, bagda chingri paturi, plum
> pudding, rosquillas, payasam, salmiakki, grilled lamprey, szilvas
> gomboc, halva, peda or baklava. Know the difference.http://www.tv.com/bizarre-foods-with-andrew-zimmern/show/71719/episod...
>
> I'm curious as to why you are so defensive of an attempt to
> simultaneously fool Hindus and keep them in a medieval mindset, while
> blinding them to good hygiene and sanitation practices. What Hinduism
> needs to do is not ossify and fossilise into the VHP vision of 6th
> century rigidity, but adapt, evolve and become progressive. When I
> browse various forums on the internet, I find that any criticism of some
> aspect of Indian life automatically seems to elicit allegations that the
> writer is a Paki, a Muslim, a Christian, a mullah, a missionary, a white
> racist, an American n*gger, etc. Totally knee-jerk reaction, and
> probably the primary reason why India struggles with modernization.
> Unwillingness to accept or even consider shortcomings is not at all
> conducive to resolving them.
Show me the spot in the media where the RSS etc have promoted
cow after shave lotion. If they promote cow urine, it is not forced
on anyone, and who knows there are some benefits that you are
ignorant of. BTW they tell of the use of distillate, which is not
the urine directly. You may have eaten cabbage and cauliflowers
grown in fields that use human waste, untreated. Even in USA
semitreated sewer water is used extensively for irrigation, and fields
use sewer sludge for fertilizer. So where are your sensibilities
there?
I will check on the ox testicles. But go to any grocery store and you
will find pig intestines, as a delicious snack. In the carolinas
these fried pig festivals are common events year round.
I do not need your precept on "being defensive." But lies must
be challenged whereever they crop up.
ModerateMallu
>
> On the other hand, the lunatic RSS and VHP are promoting the use of cow
> urine and cow dung based "products"(go-ka-cola, dung toothpaste, urine
> aftershave, etc.) as part of an ignorant and backward agenda promoting
> the religious "sanctity" of the cow, trying to inculcate a mindset of
> acceptance of dangerous practices in what is a country already beset by
> poor health and sanitation. Your comparison of this distasteful agenda
> with culinary free choice in Europe is disingenuous in the extreme.
> Would you say that the practice of consuming tiger penis soup and monkey
> brain in East Asia is endorsed and/or sanctified by Buddhism, Shintoism,
> Taoism, and other religious affiliations of the local population?
>
I agree with Mirza-ji that no one (RSS or BJP or VHP) is forcing anybody
to subscribe to any "hygiene" products based on cow urine or cow dung
(dried cowpies are quite the "green" fuel in rural areas). There might
be people who might use these (I doubt if this is on a regular basis),
and I don't think they are militant about it. But lots of people do
promote a vegetarian diet.
Anyways, "panchagavya" is very well known in the Ayurvedic world, and
there are at least two US patents on cow-based products (claimed
medicinal properties). See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchagavya
As Mirza-ji has pointed out, the cow urine-based product is actually a
distillate and not the 'draft' kind. Further, cow dung in 'panchagavya'
is only a trace quantity, although some envision that great gobs of dung
are used. :-) However, I do agree that health and sanitation are key
issues that must be addressed ASAP.
All that said, Hinduism accepts the religious "sanctity" of _all_ living
things, but does not make it dogma.
Mirza Ghalib
>
> I'm curious as to why you are so defensive of an attempt to
> simultaneously fool Hindus and keep them in a medieval mindset, while
> blinding them to good hygiene and sanitation practices. What Hinduism
> needs to do is not ossify and fossilise into the VHP vision of 6th
> century rigidity, but adapt, evolve and become progressive. When I
> browse various forums on the internet, I find that any criticism of some
> aspect of Indian life automatically seems to elicit allegations that the
> writer is a Paki, a Muslim, a Christian, a mullah, a missionary, a white
> racist, an American n*gger, etc. Totally knee-jerk reaction, and
> probably the primary reason why India struggles with modernization.
> Unwillingness to accept or even consider shortcomings is not at all
> conducive to resolving them.
For exotic fried testicle specialities visit
http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/testicle-eating-festival-galas/offbeat-news
Site also shows some delectable egg size testicles in a basket ready
to
please discriminating tastes.
P. Rajah
> On 11/29/2009 12:51 PM, P. Rajah wrote:
>>
>> On the other hand, the lunatic RSS and VHP are promoting the use of cow
>> urine and cow dung based "products"(go-ka-cola, dung toothpaste, urine
>> aftershave, etc.) as part of an ignorant and backward agenda promoting
>> the religious "sanctity" of the cow, trying to inculcate a mindset of
>> acceptance of dangerous practices in what is a country already beset by
>> poor health and sanitation. Your comparison of this distasteful agenda
>> with culinary free choice in Europe is disingenuous in the extreme.
>> Would you say that the practice of consuming tiger penis soup and monkey
>> brain in East Asia is endorsed and/or sanctified by Buddhism, Shintoism,
>> Taoism, and other religious affiliations of the local population?
>>
>
> I agree with Mirza-ji that no one (RSS or BJP or VHP) is forcing anybody
> to subscribe to any "hygiene" products based on cow urine or cow dung
> (dried cowpies are quite the "green" fuel in rural areas). There might
> be people who might use these (I doubt if this is on a regular basis),
> and I don't think they are militant about it. But lots of people do
> promote a vegetarian diet.
My point is not whether it is being forced on people or not, and I never
claimed that the RSS or VHP does so, despite both you and Mirza implying
that I did. It is simply that this is being pushed onto Hindus through
the artifact of religious appeal, and it has no basis whatsoever in
truth. Furthermore, it is downright dangerous to push this septic
nonsense, particularly through official and quasi-official channels.
Remember that this "product development" began under Murali Manohar
Joshi, with full BJP-led government backing.
> Anyways, "panchagavya" is very well known in the Ayurvedic world, and
> there are at least two US patents on cow-based products (claimed
> medicinal properties). See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchagavya
Patents are meaningless when they apply to products that nobody wants to
make. In any case, look at the patent application, and tell me what
claims are made, and what peer-reviewed studies have been presented to
back them up.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6410059.pdf
Two things jump out at me from the patent application. One is that
"Cow's urine (go-mutra) can be considered as the most effective animal
origin substance/secretion with the capacity of general health
improvement but *it does need substantiation through scientific
experimentation*". The second is that "Further the urine distillate from
buffalo, camel, deer provides similar activity of bioavailability."
Clearly then, there is no special ingredient found in cow urine alone
for this application, let alone only from "Indian pure breed cows".
> As Mirza-ji has pointed out, the cow urine-based product is actually a
> distillate and not the 'draft' kind. Further, cow dung in 'panchagavya'
> is only a trace quantity, although some envision that great gobs of dung
> are used. :-) However, I do agree that health and sanitation are key
> issues that must be addressed ASAP.
>
> All that said, Hinduism accepts the religious "sanctity" of _all_ living
> things, but does not make it dogma.
There is no central authority to make dogma. The VHP is attempting to
become that central authority, or at least to create one that it controls.
P. Rajah
Do you have a problem comprehending plain English? I had already made it
clear that things like fried bull testicles are "exotic" dishes, and not
"delicacies" as you had claimed. Furthermore, nobody is claiming
religious sanction or duty for the consumption of such exotic dishes,
nor are there idiotic health claims being made.
You asked me to defend, as a "Christian", this allegedly "Christian"
practice. But you have failed to show that it is a "Christian" practice,
or indeed that it is widespread in the "Christian" world, and the
question of "defending" it does not arise.
Now, what is your point, if you do have one? Is it that cow urine can
cure cancer, or that fresh steaming cow pies are anti-bacterial? Because
that is what Hindus are being asked to believe by the vacuous idiots of
the RSS and VHP.
http://nirmukta.com/2008/10/04/cows-excreta-as-medicine-insult-to-humanity/
P. Rajah
http://www.sindhtoday.net/news/1/62562.htm
http://nirmukta.com/2008/10/04/cows-excreta-as-medicine-insult-to-humanity/
http://kalpvraksha.com/cppricelistapril09.pdf
> If they promote cow urine, it is not forced on anyone,
No, it's not, but the promotion is based on stirring up religious
"sentiment", and has no scientific basis. Not only that, it is downright
dangerous to make claims such as applying fresh cow dung on a wound will
help to heal it.
> and who knows there are some benefits that you are
> ignorant of.
Then perhaps you could educate us all on those benefits.
> BTW they tell of the use of distillate, which is not
> the urine directly.
What is a distillate? A distillate is simply a concentrate, and defines
the process by which the concentrate is obtained. You are confusing
distillates with sterilisation, perhaps. Nonetheless, there is
absolutely no advantage to using cow urine in any of these applications,
and a number of potential disadvantages.
> You may have eaten cabbage and cauliflowers
> grown in fields that use human waste, untreated. Even in USA
> semitreated sewer water is used extensively for irrigation, and fields
> use sewer sludge for fertilizer. So where are your sensibilities
> there?
Fertilizer is not something that can be ingested by humans. Since man
began farming, various animal dungs have been used for fertilizer, but
there is certainly a distinct difference between using dung for
fertilizer and eating dung.
> I will check on the ox testicles. But go to any grocery store and you
> will find pig intestines, as a delicious snack. In the carolinas
> these fried pig festivals are common events year round.
They are called chitlins, as I said, and it is a rural poor thing.
Still, it is thoroughly cleaned off before being cooked, and you will
not find dried pig shit or pig urine or untreated sewage being sold as
snacks or remedies.
> I do not need your precept on "being defensive." But lies must
> be challenged whereever they crop up.
Even in this post, you come across as very defensive! As for the "lies",
please do tell what "lie" you are challenging here.
Here's a practical use for cow's urine, without having to ingest it:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/07/08/urine-power.html
P. Rajah
Sorry, here's the after-shave reference(with photo):
http://blogs.reuters.com/oddly-enough/2009/02/12/kids-its-pee-licious/
ModerateMallu
Well, 'panchagavya' has its roots in Charaka's treatise, a respected
Ayurvedic document. Not all of ancient India was intellectually dead,
although based on the dazzling achievements of the present-day west, one
might be very tempted to regard old works with a great deal of disdain.
It doesn't help that vocal proponents of vedic this and that are not
fully qualified to say anything about ancient Indian science. There is
actually some method to the ancient madness, but we'll save that for
another day.
You did say that the RSS and BJP were promoting these products. I guess
force was a wrong interpretation of the word promote. Politicians will
latch on to anything that will get them elected. If it is the sacred cow
and her dung, so be it.
>
>> Anyways, "panchagavya" is very well known in the Ayurvedic world, and
>> there are at least two US patents on cow-based products (claimed
>> medicinal properties). See
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchagavya
>
> Patents are meaningless when they apply to products that nobody wants to
> make. In any case, look at the patent application, and tell me what
> claims are made, and what peer-reviewed studies have been presented to
> back them up.
> http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6410059.pdf
>
Patents do not require peer-reviewed studies. Marketing the stuff
described by the patent might be a whole other issue.
> Two things jump out at me from the patent application. One is that
> "Cow's urine (go-mutra) can be considered as the most effective animal
> origin substance/secretion with the capacity of general health
> improvement but *it does need substantiation through scientific
> experimentation*". The second is that "Further the urine distillate from
> buffalo, camel, deer provides similar activity of bioavailability."
> Clearly then, there is no special ingredient found in cow urine alone
> for this application, let alone only from "Indian pure breed cows".
>
Maybe so, but the cow is special - after all it is sacred to Hindus. :-)
A lot of it is faith, and faith isn't rational. Magical properties are
ascribed to Ganga jal, water from Zamzam, Lourdes, ...
>
>
>> As Mirza-ji has pointed out, the cow urine-based product is actually a
>> distillate and not the 'draft' kind. Further, cow dung in
>> 'panchagavya' is only a trace quantity, although some envision that
>> great gobs of dung are used. :-) However, I do agree that health and
>> sanitation are key issues that must be addressed ASAP.
>>
>> All that said, Hinduism accepts the religious "sanctity" of _all_
>> living things, but does not make it dogma.
>
> There is no central authority to make dogma. The VHP is attempting to
> become that central authority, or at least to create one that it controls.
Over the years I have changed my position on Hindus getting organized
under a single umbrella. Yeah, the charm used to be in the lack of
organization which gave one absolute freedom to think and develop one's
own system (albeit within certain constraints). However, looking at the
protracted assault on Hindus by well-heeled organized religions, it is
time to get a central authority, and time to get a little dogma injected
into Hindus. Some dogma is necessary to get Hindus away from a
fatalistic world view and actively work to help make the country better
(despite all the bad rap, the RSS did that at one time until the
Bajarangis showed up in the 80s). However, that dogma cannot be vicious
and divisive as is being currently promoted, and neither does that dogma
have to conform to any "standards" set by Christians and/or Muslims.
P. Rajah
Exactly, which is why the mere grant of a patent is not proof that the
product is good, or even that it works as intended.
> Marketing the stuff
> described by the patent might be a whole other issue.
>
>> Two things jump out at me from the patent application. One is that
>> "Cow's urine (go-mutra) can be considered as the most effective animal
>> origin substance/secretion with the capacity of general health
>> improvement but *it does need substantiation through scientific
>> experimentation*". The second is that "Further the urine distillate from
>> buffalo, camel, deer provides similar activity of bioavailability."
>> Clearly then, there is no special ingredient found in cow urine alone
>> for this application, let alone only from "Indian pure breed cows".
>>
>
> Maybe so, but the cow is special - after all it is sacred to Hindus. :-)
>
> A lot of it is faith, and faith isn't rational. Magical properties are
> ascribed to Ganga jal, water from Zamzam, Lourdes, ...
The difference here is that there are claims being made that this is
scientifically validated, which it isn't. Even more alarming is that
these false claims could result in people fatally harming themselves.
>>> As Mirza-ji has pointed out, the cow urine-based product is actually a
>>> distillate and not the 'draft' kind. Further, cow dung in
>>> 'panchagavya' is only a trace quantity, although some envision that
>>> great gobs of dung are used. :-) However, I do agree that health and
>>> sanitation are key issues that must be addressed ASAP.
>>>
>>> All that said, Hinduism accepts the religious "sanctity" of _all_
>>> living things, but does not make it dogma.
>>
>> There is no central authority to make dogma. The VHP is attempting to
>> become that central authority, or at least to create one that it
>> controls.
>
> Over the years I have changed my position on Hindus getting organized
> under a single umbrella. Yeah, the charm used to be in the lack of
> organization which gave one absolute freedom to think and develop one's
> own system (albeit within certain constraints). However, looking at the
> protracted assault on Hindus by well-heeled organized religions, it is
> time to get a central authority, and time to get a little dogma injected
> into Hindus. Some dogma is necessary to get Hindus away from a
> fatalistic world view and actively work to help make the country better
> (despite all the bad rap, the RSS did that at one time until the
> Bajarangis showed up in the 80s). However, that dogma cannot be vicious
> and divisive as is being currently promoted, and neither does that dogma
> have to conform to any "standards" set by Christians and/or Muslims.
I think it would be good for Hinduism to have at least one central
authority, but not the regressive VHP or a VHP-influenced body. Hinduism
needs a progressive, forward-looking, modern central authority, not
these coots who would see India regress into the medieval era.
Mirza Ghalib
>
> > Site also shows some delectable egg size testicles in a basket ready
> > to
> > please discriminating tastes.
>
> Do you have a problem comprehending plain English? I had already made it
> clear that things like fried bull testicles are "exotic" dishes, and not
> "delicacies" as you had claimed. Furthermore, nobody is claiming
> religious sanction or duty for the consumption of such exotic dishes,
> nor are there idiotic health claims being made.
>
> You asked me to defend, as a "Christian", this allegedly "Christian"
> practice. But you have failed to show that it is a "Christian" practice,
> or indeed that it is widespread in the "Christian" world, and the
> question of "defending" it does not arise.
>
> Now, what is your point, if you do have one? Is it that cow urine can
> cure cancer, or that fresh steaming cow pies are anti-bacterial? Because
> that is what Hindus are being asked to believe by the vacuous idiots of
> the RSS and VHP.
>
It is you who has a comprehension problem. Where do you draw a
line between exotic and delicacy? In that article it is clearly
written that over three hundred gathered to savor this dish. And if
you could read the entire article you would see the following:
"Buster Hoffman, of Kronenwetter first tried goat testicles when he
lived in Denver, where it’s considered a delicacy better known as
Rocky Mountain oysters. (I’ve heard the term Prairie Oysters,
myself.)"
I lived for a long time in the midwest and it was known there by the
oysters name.
Whether cow urine cures cancer or not, is none of your concern.
I may add when you go to church your pastor sprinkles on you so
called "holy water". Is it really holy? Chances are it is just plain
tap water. Or when you eat that biscuit given by the priest, is it
really the flesh of Christ?
VHP or RSS have much bigger purpose than cow urine. So it
is rather hilarious to hear an idiot like you addressing them by that
epithet. Learn to talk and discuss rationally and respectfully. I
will respond likewise.
uNmaiviLambi
> I think it would be good for Hinduism to have at least one central
> authority, but not the regressive VHP or a VHP-influenced body. Hinduism
> needs a progressive, forward-looking, modern central authority, not
> these coots who would see India regress into the medieval era.
I disagree. Hinduism has no "central authority". That has been our
strength and weakness. I would like to keep it that way. We do not
want any authority like a pope etc. That would institutionalize the
religion. Our focus is on principles and not people. We do not
emphasize people.
We have a lot of swamis, gurus for guidance. But ultimately, it is up
to people to take or leave their guidance. Better that way
Authorities will only try to "enforce" and use coercion.
We celebrate freedom. That should remain so
We do not want to follow Christian or muslim ways ever. They can do
what they want
We are Hindus and will remain so
That is out strength
If that is our weakness at this moment, we will deal with that
politically and not change our religion!!
ModerateMallu
I agree with you to an extent, but I think that highly 'romanticized'
notions of Hinduism should be set aside. For one, lots of the swamis and
gurus are charlatans, and the genuine ones that know something are lost
in a self-absorbed meditative fog, i.e., there aren't good 'guides' for
the common folk like me.
Don't discount the power of organized religion. There is some good in
it, and some bad, but I think in the context of Hinduism, the good far
outweighs the bad. Mind you, I am not working this from a political
angle whatsoever, and I do not believe that there is ever the
possibility of a Hindu 'theocracy' - there has never been such a concept
(and can never be). However, there has to some modicum of dogma
instilled in Hindus. Failing to do so will mean hanging separately
instead of hanging together. :-)
I am curious about one thing though. If you are against making
'Hinduism' conform to any external standards, you cannot (and should
not) expect other religions to conform to yours, no? You cannot say they
can do what they want, and then complain when they do what they want. :-)
P. Rajah
> lived in Denver, where it�s considered a delicacy better known as
> Rocky Mountain oysters. (I�ve heard the term Prairie Oysters,
> myself.)"
>
> I lived for a long time in the midwest and it was known there by the
> oysters name.
It's a delicacy in Denver(I doubt that, it's still probably exotic in
Denver) and exotic for most Americans. Can you tell why that is? Mangoes
are a delicacy in India, but an exotic fruit in America. Divali sweets
are a delicacy in India, but for Americans, they are exotic. Some
Indians eat rats as a delicacy*, but is it a delicacy for other Indians?
Can you understand that?
*http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSSIN344701
> Whether cow urine cures cancer or not, is none of your concern.
> I may add when you go to church your pastor sprinkles on you so
> called "holy water". Is it really holy? Chances are it is just plain
> tap water. Or when you eat that biscuit given by the priest, is it
> really the flesh of Christ?
I've never had anyone sprinkle "holy water" on me. Does the priest
actually claim that the biscuit is the flesh of Christ? Is the "holy
ash" in a Hindu temple really holy? The bread and wine in a Christian
church has the same significance, bhasma or remembrance. The only time I
go to a church or a temple is when someone invites me for some event.
It's best that you don't make half-assed assumptions.
> VHP or RSS have much bigger purpose than cow urine. So it
> is rather hilarious to hear an idiot like you addressing them by that
> epithet. Learn to talk and discuss rationally and respectfully. I
> will respond likewise.
I don't think even you know where you are going with this. Where is this
damn "Christian practice" you keep talking of? As for the VHP and RSS,
you are an idiot if you think they have some noble purpose in mind.
P. Rajah
> On Nov 30, 11:53 am, "P. Rajah" <u...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it would be good for Hinduism to have at least one central
>> authority, but not the regressive VHP or a VHP-influenced body. Hinduism
>> needs a progressive, forward-looking, modern central authority, not
>> these coots who would see India regress into the medieval era.
>
>
> I disagree. Hinduism has no "central authority". That has been our
> strength and weakness. I would like to keep it that way. We do not
> want any authority like a pope etc. That would institutionalize the
> religion. Our focus is on principles and not people. We do not
> emphasize people.
>
> We have a lot of swamis, gurus for guidance. But ultimately, it is up
> to people to take or leave their guidance. Better that way
>
> Authorities will only try to "enforce" and use coercion.
Somebody needs to straighten out clueless idiots like you who haven't
the foggiest notion of anything.
uNmaiviLambi
> On 11/30/2009 3:01 PM, uNmaiviLambi wrote:
> I agree with you to an extent, but I think that highly 'romanticized'
> notions of Hinduism should be set aside. For one, lots of the swamis and
> gurus are charlatans, and the genuine ones that know something are lost
> in a self-absorbed meditative fog, i.e., there aren't good 'guides' for
> the common folk like me.
>
> Don't discount the power of organized religion. There is some good in
> it, and some bad, but I think in the context of Hinduism, the good far
> outweighs the bad. Mind you, I am not working this from a political
> angle whatsoever, and I do not believe that there is ever the
> possibility of a Hindu 'theocracy' - there has never been such a concept
> (and can never be). However, there has to some modicum of dogma
> instilled in Hindus. Failing to do so will mean hanging separately
> instead of hanging together. :-)
Thanks for the comments. We follow a dharma which is diverse in its
modes of worship ,theory, and tradition. It is impossible to have one
central authority for this reason alone, even if desirable which I
disagree with. We celebrate this diversity which is inevitable in
human affairs. Any attempt to coerce, encourage or force humans into a
mold will fail as it militates against freedom which in integral to
any productive human endeavor. That is the problem with Christianity
or Islam with enforced belief systems . They will fail ultimately
>
> I am curious about one thing though. If you are against making
> 'Hinduism' conform to any external standards, you cannot (and should
> not) expect other religions to conform to yours, no? You cannot say they
> can do what they want, and then complain when they do what they want. :-)
The problem seriously is that Christians and Muslims will never meet
any rational standards. They are based on beliefs which are irrational
and unlikely.
Hence the need to enforce beliefs and inquiry is forbidden unless you
"agree" with core beliefs. There are essential differences between
Hinduism and these two which will never be bridged. Hence it is
impossible to find any common ground ever. We are different and there
is no point in asking us to "emulate" them
They have strong points in their organizational skills which arise as
a consequence of their "belief system and enforcement techniques" but
this will fail in the end miserably as they are not in tune with human
potential and demands for freedom. That is why Christianity failed in
Europe and is doomed. Islam survives with ruthless force and violence
Religions have to be diverse as human methods of worship and symbols
will differ. Swami Vivekananda said there are as many religions as
there are people. That is true. No one can change the Hindu religion
Our unity is a political question. It is not a flaw in our theology