Informons les algeriens sur leur Histoire Ya Canti
Massine
Pour finir d'asseoir leur domination, les Francais n'ont plus qu'a soumettre
les
derniers irreductibles, les Kabyles, qui se refusent a eux comme hier a Abd
el-Kader.
Au prealable, a l'automne 1852, deux colonnes convergent sur Laghouat, ou un
ancien
khalifa de Tlemcen pour la France, Mohammed ben Abdallah, a souleve la tribu
des
Larba. L'oasis est enlevee au terme d'un siege sanglant ou le general
Bouscaren est
mortellement blesse. Peu apres, Si Hamza, bachagha des Ouled Sidi Cheikh
Cheraga,
entre dans Ouargla. En novembre 1854, le general Desvaux occupe Touggourt.
Biskra. Touggourt. Laghouat. Ouargla: le Sahara septentrional est sous
controle
francais. Cependant, le vrai probleme de la penetration saharienne reste
entier.
L'armee etait partie se battre en Crimee. Ce n'est qu'en mai 1857 que le
gouverneur
general Randon peut enfin s'attaquer au bastion kabyle.
40000 hommes sont a pied d'oeuvre. Retranches sur leurs lignes de crete, les
Kabyles
se defendent avec rage. Le 24 juin 1857, la prise d'Icheridene coute aux
Francais 400
tues, dont 30 officiers. Cette journee est l'une des plus sanglantes de la
conquete.
Au total, l'occupation de la Grande Kabylie se paiera de 1500 tues et
blesses dans les
rangs de Randon. Combien en face?
La Grande Kabylie soumise, 1857 marque le terme officiel de ce qui est
denomme la conquete
de l'Algerie. Un terme qui ne signifie en aucun cas que la paix soit au fond
des coeurs
des vaincus, meme si le drapeau tricolore flotte de Marnia a La Calle.
Mais, ils etaient ou, mais ils etaient ou les constantinois, lalalalala
lalalalalla.
have you any questions ? I am here, don't worry...
Khaled
> Mais, ils etaient ou, mais ils etaient ou (les)<<<TES>>> constantinois, lalalalala
> lalalalalla.
Salut Massine,
Je me suis permis de corriger un petite faute d'orthographe (je sais je
suis nul
dasn ce domaine !) : c'est bien "TES" que tu voulais dire ?
Khaled (un mec né à constantine !!!)
Massine
Non, je n'ai pas fait d'erreur. Je voulais bien dire les Constantinois, Car
Canti lui est aussi Constantinois.
C'est juste une reponse d'un berger a la bergere, car ce Mec veut minimiser
considerablement le role des kabyles pour l'independance du pays, il nous
traite de tous les maux.
Il veut combattre le racisme imaginaire par sa haine envers tout ce qui est
kabyle.
Je ne fais que defendre ma region, car a part les kabyles, tous les autres
se taisent devant de telles absanites rapportees par Canti.
Massine
Khaled
Salut Massine,
(je suis sous l'effet d'un autre message, alors je vais être bref et
paut-etre conditionné?)
A ma connaissance Bouzid se définit plus comme musulman que comme
"Amazigh"
voir Kabyle.
Répondre aux agressions par des agressions de même nature sinon plus
intense
n'a pas, jusque là, fait beaucoup de bien à notre pays (ni à d'autres)
!
Chacun est libre de faire ce qu'il veut mais c'est dommage qu'il en soit
ainsi dans une communautée d'instruit.
Que cela arrive une fois, voir deux ..bref par accident ou par choix
momenté n'est pas si grave, mais que cela deviennent la regle....
Ma mêre m'avait appris un proverbe que j'ai rarement apprécié.
En ce moment précis il me taraude l'esprit !
"Ma tkhalet ruHak bel nukhala, la yengbak el-djaj"
(ne te mele pas au son, si tu craind d'etre picoté par les poulets)
C'est dommage mais il me parait que certaines personnes sont à "éviter"
car
cela ne rends service à personne, loin de là.
Depuis le temps que je vois des gens répondre aux post de Canti dans le
même style qu'il utilise ou en essayant de le dépasser dans ses
performances
je ne vois sincerement pas ou il a put évolué. Bien au contraire il me
semble que cela n'a servit qu'a le rendre encore plus aigris et plus
agressif.
Et tu parle de "racisme imaginaire", qu'en sait tu de ce qu'il a pu
vivre lui
personelement qu'il n'aurait peut-etre jamais le courage de l'avouer à
qui que
ce soit ??!
C'est revoltant de voir que les rares persones qui donnent un moindre
crédits
positifs voir même prennent sur eux même dans SCA soient etrangés.
En fin de compte Salah a raison :
Prendre sur soit, ne pas insulter les gens, accepter les differences,
"ménager"
les susceptibilitées, positiver, donner le bénefice du doute,...tout
cela ne
Marche pas avec les algériens !
J'espére que ce n'est qu'un au revoir !
Khaled
Massine
Sahit Khaled,
> A ma connaissance Bouzid se définit plus comme musulman que comme
"Amazigh" voir Kabyle.
Pourquoi, y a t-il un probleme de se considerer plus Amazigh que musulman ?
Je suis né Amazigh, je suis devenu musulman.
> Répondre aux agressions par des agressions de même nature sinon plus
> intense
> n'a pas, jusque là, fait beaucoup de bien à notre pays (ni à d'autres)
Moi, je ne considere pas mes reponses agressives, mais bien ordonnees.
> Chacun est libre de faire ce qu'il veut mais c'est dommage qu'il en soit
> ainsi dans une communautée d'instruit.
L'instruction n'est jamais une education.
On peut etre instruit, mais mal-eleve... Et il y a un bon exemple sur le
SCA!!!
> Que cela arrive une fois, voir deux ..bref par accident ou par choix
> momenté n'est pas si grave, mais que cela deviennent la regle....
Je n'ai jamais attaque, mais j'essaies toujours de me defendre et de
defendre la verite, du moins ma verite.
> Ma mêre m'avait appris un proverbe que j'ai rarement apprécié.
> En ce moment précis il me taraude l'esprit !
> "Ma tkhalet ruHak bel nukhala, la yengbak el-djaj"
> (ne te mele pas au son, si tu craind d'etre picoté par les poulets)
Moi, je connais aussi un autre proverbe :" Celui qui ne connais rien est un
ignorant, celui qui connais quelque chose et ne le dit pas est un
criminel..." Je ne veux pas etre criminel Khaled.
> C'est dommage mais il me parait que certaines personnes sont à "éviter"
> car
> cela ne rends service à personne, loin de là.
> Depuis le temps que je vois des gens répondre aux post de Canti dans le
> même style qu'il utilise ou en essayant de le dépasser dans ses
> performances
> je ne vois sincerement pas ou il a put évolué. Bien au contraire il me
> semble que cela n'a servit qu'a le rendre encore plus aigris et plus
> agressif.
Et ce que c'est Canti qui est condamnable ou bien les autres, "Dis la
verite, meme si elle est amere" dit un certain livre sacre.
As-tu deja vu un post de Canti ou il n'insulte pas les Kabyles ? A part
lorsqu'il parlait des herbes medicinales!!!
> Et tu parle de "racisme imaginaire", qu'en sait tu de ce qu'il a pu
> vivre lui
> personelement qu'il n'aurait peut-etre jamais le courage de l'avouer à
> qui que
> ce soit ??!
Tu sais Khaled, pour avoir subit toutes les humiliations de la part des
autorites algeriens, des algeriens arabophones, car etant kabyle; je hairais
a jamais la langue arabe, l'Islam et tout ce qui se rattache a la culture
arabe. Du Sale race des militaires, et tout le reste, me comprendrais-tu si
je
t'insulte. Dans la vie il faut faire la part des choses, il ne faut pas
tomber dans des facilites, il est plus dur de construire que de detruire!!!!
Ne repete jamais ce que tu viens de dire aux autres, surtout aux personnes
vulnerables, tu vas plus les enfoncer.
Est-ce que tu reconnais qu'il y a de la torture en Algerie independante ?
Tu as deja entendu parle du printemps berbere ? Pas le nom en lui meme, mais
que c'etait-il passe ?
> C'est revoltant de voir que les rares persones qui donnent un moindre
> crédits
> positifs voir même prennent sur eux même dans SCA soient etrangés.
Tu n'as pas pris beaucoup, et si tu fais allusion a mon post alors la tu
n'as rien pris.
Heureusement tu n'es pas Kabyle, que diras-tu? Que feras-tu ?
> En fin de compte Salah a raison :
> Prendre sur soit, ne pas insulter les gens, accepter les differences,
> "ménager"
> les susceptibilitées, positiver, donner le bénefice du doute,...tout
> cela ne
> Marche pas avec les algériens !
Avec certains algeriens, les fils du F.(L).N d'apres l'independance, ceux
qui croient que etre libre c'est une aubaine, je dis bien aubaine ( car ces
gens ne croyaient pas a cette certaine liberte, ils aimaient bien etre
baillonner dans ce cas les autorites et la SM n'avaient pas tord ), pour
insulter les autres. Imagine un instant que cette personne ne dispose pas de
newsgroup, que fera t-il ? Va t-il s'exploser comme la grenouille de De La
Fontaine?
> J'espére que ce n'est qu'un au revoir !
> Khaled
Sahit Khaled. A la prochaine.
Fodil
Massine wrote in message <929444234.768206@news1>...
>
>Sahit Khaled,
>
>> A ma connaissance Bouzid se définit plus comme musulman que comme
>"Amazigh" voir Kabyle.
>
>Pourquoi, y a t-il un probleme de se considerer plus Amazigh que musulman ?
>Je suis né Amazigh, je suis devenu musulman.
>
you were and who you became.
1. Yemmek waldetek
2. Rafdetek fi yad'ha wa qaletek "Bismi Allah khmuss wa djabreen, wa khamssa
fi l'ain".,
3. Yemmek tahdar l'qbaylia taa l'aarab taa bejaia illi asslhum min Fatima
Zohra. Babek yahdar 95% aarbia wa 5% nass-nass
4. Anta jamais smaat b' klemt Amazigh hatta l'haqt l' second(roubamma).
5. Dorka bdaw yatlfulek l'hssabet.
By the way, une fois devenu musulman on doit jamais venerer les morts and/or
les ancetres (Mohamed or Fatima inclus), c'est un peche et anti-islamic,
maintenant tu es devenu un "murtad" *wa aala balek wash idiru lhum
l'murtadeen).
No ancestral worship is allowed in islam, and no shinto.
Fodil
Massine
> Barkana min l'khurti ya Massine!, qalu zad Amazigh?..The following is who
> you were and who you became.
Je n'ai pose qu'une question, je me mets toujours du cote des gens agresse,
en locurence les imazighen actuellement en Algerie.
> 1. Yemmek waldetek
> 2. Rafdetek fi yad'ha wa qaletek "Bismi Allah khmuss wa djabreen, wa
khamssa
> fi l'ain".,
C'est vrai, surtout parce que j'etait un enfant desire, ils ont attendu
beaucoup pour m'avoir.
> 3. Yemmek tahdar l'qbaylia taa l'aarab taa bejaia illi asslhum min Fatima
Walah, depuis notre precauce retour en Kabylie, elle ne parle aucun mot
j'exagere bien sur ).
Elle fait la priere depuis 7 ans ou 8 ans, elle a deja visite la mecque ( el
3oumra ).
Tu sais quand j'etais petit, elle m'empeche d'aller jouer au foot le
Vendredi apres midi. Meskina, elle a toujours besoin que je lui explique les
emissions de "je ne me rappelle pas" sur l'Islam a la tele, normal. elle ne
comprend rien. A
chaque fois je dois rentree a 19h ( 07.pm ) sinon, j'ai le droit a une bonne
correction.
> Zohra. Babek yahdar 95% aarbia wa 5% nass-nass
Il disait toujours, la langue arabe et la langue du prophete, c'est l'avenir
en Algerie.
> 4. Anta jamais smaat b' klemt Amazigh hatta l'haqt l' second(roubamma).
Je n'habite pas Alger, j'ecoutais avec mes oncles dès mon jeune age la radio
marocaine TANGER, Medi Un actuellement , qui parlait de l'histoire des
berberes ( Imazighen ).
Je te le jure que la gendarmerie rodait, et reprimait tous les gens qui
ecoutaient cette radio.
Tu te rends compte, elle vient meme ecouter ce que nous ecoutons a travers
les fenetres des maisons.
Pas mal de gens ont ete incarcere...
> 5. Dorka bdaw yatlfulek l'hssabet.
Non, moi je dirai une prise de consience ya Fodil. Car il n'y a aucun
mensonge quant a notre existance.
> By the way, une fois devenu musulman on doit jamais venerer les morts
and/or
> les ancetres (Mohamed or Fatima inclus), c'est un peche et anti-islamic,
> maintenant tu es devenu un "murtad" *wa aala balek wash idiru lhum
> l'murtadeen).
Je ne venere personne, meme le saint de tous les bdjaouis sidi abdelkader
g'la3nayass.
Mais il m'arrive d'aimer, car j'ai un coeur, et je suis humain.
> No ancestral worship is allowed in islam, and no shinto.
> Fodil
Ai-je le droit d'appeler mes enfants Massinisa, yougourten, dihia, kahina ?
Pourquoi les autorites algeriennes avaient fait une liste des prenoms ?
Massine.
Mboudy
Au Québec, j'ai un ami kabyle très pieu ( parfois fanatique et, souvent, très
influençable) à qui j'ai appris, pourtant sous toute réserve, les rumeurs
circulant sur feu Maatoub et que j'ai entendues ici même sur ce forum, notamment
ses funérailles ainsi que rapportées par certains sur sca. Celui-ci étant choqué
jure qu'il n'écoutera plus son chanteur préféré. Mon ami n'étant pas érudit en
matière religieuse, j'avais beau lui faire comprendre que cela n'avait rien à
voir avec la foi qui est un truc strictement personnel, en vain. tqoul rak
tadrab felhit. Dernièrement, lorsqu'il retourne au pays, il surprend son frère
entrain d'écouter une cassette de Maatoub et le somma de l'enlever tout de
suite. Sidéré, son frère lui demanda les raisons de cette bizarre attitude.
Lorsque ce dernier apprit que la conduite de son frère était motivée par des
considérations religieuses et comme il prétend connaître personnellement le
chanteur, il le rassura et lui dit que les rumeurs colportées contre le
chanteur sont sans aucun fondement et ne visent qu'à le discréditer et semer la
zizanie. Selon ce frère, ces rumeurs procèdent d'une machination diabolique dont
se sont rendus auteurs certaines personnes au sein du pouvoir et à leur tête son
ennemi no 1 : Ouyahia. D'après mon ami, il a reçu de son frère une cassette de
Maatoub dans laquelle il déclare clairement qu'il est musulman, qu'il croit au
Coran et qu'il n'a rien contre l'arabe ni ses frères arabophones comme on veut
délibérément le faire croire. Est-ce vrai ? La question s'adresse à tous ceux
qui ont des informations à ce sujet.( à toi aussi Mack...)
Ceux qui verraient dans mon post une certaine propension au discours religieux
ou régionale, qu'ils se rassurent. Ce n'est pas le cas. Mon message est motivé
par ce qui suit :
1. Si ces affirmations s'avèrent véridiques, il appartient à ceux qui sont au
courant de rétablir les faits ici même sur ce forum parce qu'il est injuste
qu'une personne décédée, qui n'est pas là pour se défendre, puisse faire l'objet
de simples rumeurs qui n'ont rien à voir avec la réalité et qu'on cite à tort et
à travers injustement, allant, pour certains, jusqu'à insulter sa mémoire.
2. Il s'agit-là d'un principe fondamental, celui du respect de la mémoire des
morts. Maatoub, au cas où les dires de mon ami seraient corroborés,
acceptera-t-il d'être ainsi profané, sans raison apparente? Certainement pas.
Défunt Kateb Yacine était athé et lorsqu'il décéda, on chanta l'internationale.
C'était son voeu. Le même principe devrait s'appliquer à feu Maatoub et à tous
ceux qui ne sont plus parmi nous.
3. Les dires de mon ami, s'ils sont confirmés ils constitueront un argument pour
faire taire les détracteurs qui ne manquent pas de soulever ce prétexte
religieux pour verser dans l'insulte gratuite et l'invective.
4. Empêcher certains de récupérer indûment le défunt pour insulter injustement
l'islam et les musulmans
5. Notre combat, à tous, est le même : une Algérie plurielle et tolérante qui ne
fait acception de personne, sans aucune discrimination qu'elle soit fondée sur
l'origine régionale, la croyance ou la langue.
Salutations
sad...@my-deja.com
celle de croire en dieu qui est aussi une liberte. La mentalite
debile de certains de faire d'une personne un ennemi, soit de dieu
ou autres personnes sous des considerations religieuses est
non humaine. Utiliser la religion comme bouc emissaire et la fibre
sensible de certains pour faire passer des messages de violences
et de denigration releve de la faiblesse d'esprit.
Matoub merite le plus grand respect pour son combat a la fois
pour la culture Amazigh et les libertes individuelles et collectives.
Qu'il repose en paie.
In article <37713815...@sprint.ca>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Fodil
1. "Je ne suis ni Arabe ni Musulman" =(la nouvelle shahada)
2. "Il faut venerer les ancetres"
3. Never Say "Allah Yarhmu", for that was not his wish.
4. Algeria shall be for the KABYLES of djurdjura(G.K.) (Imazighen)
Some also believe that Ali Belhadj told them:
1. "Kill all Kuffar (surtout l'qbayel taa G.K (kima Mo))
2. "Dimoqratia Kuffr, and the kaffir(i.e. any person pro-democracy) shall be
beheaded(rassu ittir).
3. "Must wear gandoura, must grow a beard and must sit and eat on the
floor, no furniture allowed".
That is one more reason why the "Ahadiths" were fabricated, all of them
were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left a
BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other form
of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"..., he
should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
Note to Mbouty: Your friend is "Hadithist", not a muslim..Muslims should not
care to what music others listen to, but should care about the well being of
the other member..
Faith is personnal matter, but the family is for all and forever...
Fodil.......
Fodil
In one of my posts, I said to Mo that I, Fodil(Mafia),am more familliar with the
kabyles than he is, he jumped on me. I basically described you without even
knowing you, and I bet you that I know el-Mack very well, and I can spot him
amomgst a group of 1,000 people, bella rabbu ghir nadjbdu (meme idiguizi). The
Algerian government was not worried about the kabyles learning about their
background and/or heritage, they were not worried about the kabyles learning
tamazight..but they were worried about the effect that might cause, some may use
it to justify that they are different than the rest ,therefore calling for
separation(things happened during the revolution). Do not forget that your
father told you that arabic is the language of Mohamed, beacause Mohamed was
"Aaziz" for your father, so was to my father and to alll other fathers (my
father(A.Y) used to tell me Mohamed Aaziz aalina ya oulidi), but he never told
me that the kabyles are different than you are and they are djanss wahed akhar.
All mothers do not speak nor understand classical arabic, kabyles mothers are
not excluded, usually the sisters do the translation. I remember my mother(A.Y.)
spending hours with khalti Fatima(kabyle 100%) chatting for hours, I always
wondered how they understood each others, but they did enjoy each others
company, sometimes coming back from soccer, my mother usually asks me "ya oulidi
wa qila waqt salat l'maghreb", I usualy say yes, it is. So, they take a break to
pray, the other woman goes to her home(next door) to pray and comes back for
more chating until the father comes home(and FINITO!, no more discussion).
You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the quran that
dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-muslim
name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and basically
non-algerian(since 650 A.C.), there existed no berber names since then. Usually
a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I personally will
never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified as such
while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
You may notice that most (if not all) the albanians in Kosovo have a muslim
name. If you love your father you may respect his wishes, and if you love
Tamazight you may fight for it, it is your right, you may ask for what you lack
but you should never neglect what you already have, and you can't be from
coucass-loural, the land of el-Mack.
The Kabyles of the petite-kabylie had a lot to do with the arabs, they formed
the fatimids dynasty and their language has always been arabic, up to now, most
of them think that they are actually arabs (as you do), being Fatimide=
Descendant of Fatima Zohra=the prophet's daughter. You are an Arabo-Berber, so
are most Algerains(if not all), very few in grande kabylie did not get
mixed...You can never let the arab in you go, it's in the blood...(you may get
upset, mad..but the truth can't be hidden)--KARA-M..
Kima qalha "Bledna bled l'mashakil wa l'bled illi ma fihash l'mashakel mashi
bled", Allah ikhardjna fi swab, wa ma nassawsh wash wassawna l'waldeen, wa rana
kamel ouled l'familia, wa ouled l'qoh iruhu idoumssu wa idazu maahum...
Note: Ziyara taa l'goubat wa l'sayed is a tradition that got infiltrated in the
religion of islam, it was banned, for it is actually non-islamic doing so. Men
do not posssess baraka, the christians beleive so, so do the idole worshippers,
a man cannot be praised nor idolized, he may be a role model(as Mohamed was for
most muslims)..
There is a diferrence between SIRA(the ways) and SIFA(the physics, the looks),
most muslims confused and took both words to mean the same thing....
BTW: Is your name really Massine?, it's a cool name!, it sounds better than the
original name, an other thing: There is no proof that the Kabyles(surtout taa
G.K.(el-Mack) are descendant of Massinissa and the others, probably not,( I am
not kidding..)
Take care!
Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com
I hangout several nights and days with Lounes in Paris and here in the
US during his couple of visits.
We debated several subjects, including among other things religion in
general and Islam in particular, because of the situation in the
country.
Lounes dones NOT consider himself a Moslem, he has no sympathy for
fundamentalists. However he believe in a "God" or a supernatural force.
He was however, very respectfull of religious people. he always
stresses that religion is personal matter.
His wish of buriel in his backyard, was the love and the attachement he
had for the land of his ancestors, not for religious or none religious
reasons.
Several Amazigh family (even religious ones) do burry their dead in
their own propreties rather than the common village cimetery,
irrelevant of the person's believes, but according to his/her wishes
before death.
Khaled
Fodil wrote:
>
> Why el-Mack and his band of coucass beleive that Maatoub said:
> 1. "Je ne suis ni Arabe ni Musulman" =(la nouvelle shahada)
> 2. "Il faut venerer les ancetres"
> 3. Never Say "Allah Yarhmu", for that was not his wish.
> 4. Algeria shall be for the KABYLES of djurdjura(G.K.) (Imazighen)
C'est de bonne questions. Cela m'interesserait de connaitre les réponses
de celui/ceux à qui tu la pose.
>
> Some also believe that Ali Belhadj told them:
> 1. "Kill all Kuffar (surtout l'qbayel taa G.K (kima Mo))
Re : Parce que en ouvrant le livre dont tu parles, il a lu une ayat qui
dis
qlq chose dans ce genre. MAIS, rare sont les personnes qui connaissent
vraiment la langue arabe et savent ce que le mot "Kuffar" veut dire !
> 2. "Dimoqratia Kuffr, and the kaffir(i.e. any person pro-democracy) shall be
> beheaded(rassu ittir).
Re: Là en plus du concept "Kuffr" c'est en plus celui de "Dimoqratia"
qu'ils
ignorent.
> 3. "Must wear gandoura, must grow a beard and must sit and eat on the
> floor, no furniture allowed".
Re: Là cela peut rejoindre en partie ta these sur les "ahadist". Mais,
c'est surtout le fruit d'une "adolescence" mal vecue. Le reproduction
des faits et gestes des parents est devenu la regle de vie.
>
> That is one more reason why the "Ahadiths" were fabricated, all of them
> were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left a
> BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other form
> of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"..., he
> should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
>
> Note to Mbouty: Your friend is "Hadithist", not a muslim..Muslims should not
> care to what music others listen to, but should care about the well being of
> the other member..
Au lieu de "Hadithist" je prefere le terme de "Ancestor worshipper" !
> Faith is personnal matter, but the family is for all and forever...
>
> Fodil.......
>
Khaled
Khaled
J'ai un petit commentaire.
>
> You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the quran that
> dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-muslim
> name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and basically
> non-algerian(since 650 A.C.), there existed no berber names since then. Usually
> a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I personally will
> never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified as such
> while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
> You may notice that most (if not all) the albanians in Kosovo have a muslim
> name. If you love your father you may respect his wishes, and if you love
> Tamazight you may fight for it, it is your right, you may ask for what you lack
> but you should never neglect what you already have,
Je sais que tu es une personne qui quand qlq chose le tracasse a les
moyens
et le courage de creuser dessus et "tedjbedha mnin tkoun" :-))
La question est cette histoire de "prenom" islamique et non-islamique.
Personnelement je n'y crois pas à ce concept. Pour ma part c'est une
question
de "3ourf" et il est vrait que pour les musulmans "al-ma3rouf" est la
base
de leur "legislation" (ya'mourouna bil ma3roufi...). Mais si on doit
pour cela
"Reproduire" exactement ce que nos prédecesseur ont fait on pourrait se
retrouver dans des situations "ma yardach 3aliha rabbi".
S'il est vrais que les musulmans des générations passées ont nommés
leurs
enfants du noms de "musulmans fameux" qui historiquement etaient pour
les
premiers "arabes" ceci est je crois lié à une pratique "Historique" à
l'adoption d'une nouvelle religion et cela remonte bien avant la venu
de l'islam (je pense à certains amazigh jesuites de l'epoque qui avaient
des noms sémites ou plus exactement dis :"juifs").
Je ne veux pas m'etaler car je n'ai pas assez d'elements ni beaucoup de
doigts (pour taper sur le clavier, j'use de deux seulement...).
Pourrais-tu grater là dessus et verifier si Historiquement avant l'islam
tel fut vraiment la régle. Pour aussi bien les religions dites révéllée
que pour (et là c'est ce dont je me doutes) les autres religions.
Allez salut Fodil et encore bravo Pour ton post. On y rit pas beaucoup
mais ça fait avencer le débat.
Khaled
Bmadani52
dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-muslim
name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and basically
non-algerian(since 650 A.C.), there existed no berber names since then. Usually
a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I personally will
never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified as such
Naming a child is a personal matter, and just because one gives a child an
Amazigh name does not mean they wish to deny anything. It may be in admiration
for an ancient ancestor or for reasons of pride in heritage, etc. There is
nothing unIslamic and certainly not un-Algerian about an Amazigh name. The
names of the Prophet and his companions existed prior to Islam. The name
becomes Muslim because a Muslim carries it. Only Catholics and like Christian
sects demand one have a Saint's name, and that's idiotic for the same reasons
and more (many, no most of the saints didn't even exist!!!!).
While people have often named their children so they will fit in the society in
which they live (typical especially of immigrants or among the colonized and
conquered), there is no set rule that one must do this.
Morocco does not permit, according to a recent article, Amazigh names, yet
allows names like "Hind," which has nothing to do with Islam or Morocco. Let's
hope that Algeria doesn't do the same because it's not right. What one names
one's child is one's right and privelage. The government needs to butt out.
Mboudy
cassette que mon ami prétend posséder et je ne manquerai pas de faire
traduire les déclarations de feu Maatoub auxquelles fait allusion mon ami
et en vérifier l'authenticité.
Par ailleurs, à la lumière de ce que tu viens de m'apprendre, j'en déduis
néanmoins que ce qu'on dit sur le chanteur n'est pas justifié et ne vise
qu'à ternir son image pour provoquer la fibre religieuse de la majorité de
nos compatriotes qui se considèrent comme musulmans. Il ne se considère pas
comme musulman et être contre le fondamentalisme ne veut pas dire être
contre les musulmans et l'islam, encore moins contre la langue arabe et les
arabophones, comme on l'a annoncé tendantieusement ici même sur ce forum.
Bien au contraire, le respect de l'individu et de la différence qui
semblent fonder son crédo et son parcours politiques l'honore grandement.
Je tenais à faire cette mise au point parce qu'il m'apparaissait
extrêmement important que ceux qui l'ont connu puissent rétablir certains
faits rapportés faussement sur une partie de la vie de Maatoub qui est de
surcroît décédé et pas là pour se défendre. Merci Soucha pour ta
contribution.
sou...@hotmail.com a écrit:
Mboudy
Saha Fodil,
Mon ami n'est ni "hadithist" ni "coraniste". Lui, il ne comprend absolument
rien à ces choses-là. C'est un très bon gars qui a découvert l'islam ici au
Canada après avoir été longtemps un gars à problèmes ( avec les autorités
notamment). Il est devenu très pieu ( tout en mordant la vie à belles dents)
mais il est resté encore le bon gars que j'ai connu avant, même si je ne suis
pas souvent d'accord avec lui. Quant à la musique, il n'a rien contre, il en
écoute même beaucoup ( tout comme El Kechk qu'il vénère). Je me suis
probablement mal expliqué dans mon dernier post. En fait, lorsqu'il somma son
frère d'enlever la cassette de Maatoub du poste-radio c'est parce qu'il croyait
que le chanteur était contre l'Islam et les musulmans et que ses funérailles
furent célébrées conformément à la religion chrétienne. Après avoir constaté
grâce à son frère que ces rumeurs étaient sans fondement, du Maatoub il n'y a
que ça qu'il écoute maintenant.
Salut
Massine
> were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left a
> BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other form
Wallah, Fodil, rak takfar, je ne sais pas est-ce que tu as lu mon ancien
post ou je t'ai parle de l'Emission sur la tele Quatari ( el qatar ) "A
chari3a ou el hayat", une personne s'entete a dire la meme chose que toi sur
les ahadiths, et le Cheikh n'a meme pas voulu repondre a cette question, et
il le traitait de "ahl enar", les damnes.
> of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"..., he
> should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
Il a ecrit "le rebelle", deja traduit en langue Amazigh.
Massine.
Massine
with the
> kabyles than he is, he jumped on me. I basically described you without
even
> knowing you, and I bet you that I know el-Mack very well, and I can spot
him
> amomgst a group of 1,000 people, bella rabbu ghir nadjbdu (meme idiguizi).
The
> Algerian government was not worried about the kabyles learning about their
> background and/or heritage, they were not worried about the kabyles
learning
> tamazight..but they were worried about the effect that might cause, some
may use
> it to justify that they are different than the rest ,therefore calling for
> separation(things happened during the revolution).
Mais pourquoi avoir peur d'une verite.
Ya Fodil, si le gouvernement avait peur de ca, pourquoi ils ont trahi la
parole qu'ils avaient donne aux Chouhada ?
Pourquoi avoir joue avec le sang de nos valeureux martyrs ?
Pourquoi ils ont detourne le fleuve a leur avantage ?
Pourquoi ils jurent sur le Coran aujourd'hui ( les presidents ), et ils font
le contraire le lendemain ?
Pourquoi n'ont t-ils jamais appris aux algeriens leur vraie histoire ?
Etc, etc...
Pourquoi vouloir jouer sur notre division ( Kabyles, Arabes ),
Communistes, Islamistes ), ( Berbersites, Islamistes ).
Non, Fodil, leur seul soucis, c'est quelle tactique utilisee pour nous
diviser a jamais.
Do not forget that your
> father told you that arabic is the language of Mohamed, beacause Mohamed
was
> "Aaziz" for your father, so was to my father and to alll other fathers (my
> father(A.Y) used to tell me Mohamed Aaziz aalina ya oulidi), but he never
told
> me that the kabyles are different than you are and they are djanss wahed
akhar.
Lorsque je veux charier un peu ma mere, je lui dit souvent : " Nous sommes
meilleurs que les Arabes..." et Ca marche! Elle me fait la gueule et elle me
repond " Souhaba etaient des arabes. Et personne n'est meilleur qu'eux...
C'est grace a elle que j'ai appris la tolerance.
> All mothers do not speak nor understand classical arabic, kabyles mothers
are
Ca c'est un vrai probleme, j'ai remarque la television marocaine par
satellite parle souvent Dardja, contrairement a la notre qui ne parle qu'a
certaines elites, li qariyine.
On dirait qu'ils ne sont pas au courant que durant l'epoque coloniale il y
avait 90% d'illettres!!! Meme leurs films sont dures a comprendre pour la
majorite des algeriens. ( a part les vacances de l'inspecteur Taher ).
Il faut changer les choses...
Il y a aussi une petite anecdode, c'est lors des rares passages des
chanteurs kabyles a la televisions ( Idir, Chenoud, Djamal Alam ), tout le
monde hurlait Idir, Idir, Idir ou autres. Toute la famille accourt, pour
ecouter l'incroyable.
Imensi ( le diner ) ne sera pres qu'une heure plus tard, les enfants
jeuneront le temps des ou de la chanson(s), etc.
Les rares gens que tu peux retrouver dehors a cet instant la, sont des
arabophones. On dirait qu'ils sont entrain de tourner le film " Le dernier
survivant".
Le signe qui me fait savoir lorsque je suis absent qu'un chanteur Kabyle
vient de passe a la tele c'est la mauvaise l'humeur de mon frere.
> not excluded, usually the sisters do the translation. I remember my
mother(A.Y.)
> spending hours with khalti Fatima(kabyle 100%) chatting for hours, I
always
> wondered how they understood each others, but they did enjoy each others
Incoyable nous aussi nous avons 3amti Fatma ( A.Y c'est 3'djouza ta3 Kh'ti
lekbira ), elle est de Canstantine, elle ne parle aucun mot Kabyle.Elle aime
tellement la compagnie de ma mere, que des fois je les surprend main dans la
main, comme des petites filles et elles restent des heures et des heures
ensemble.
J'ai un ami de Setif qui m'a dit la meme chose au sujet de sa Grand-mere
Arabe) et celle du voisin ( Kabyle ).
Peut-etre c'est parce qu'elle ne sont pas sous l'influence politique du
gouvernement ?
> company, sometimes coming back from soccer, my mother usually asks me "ya
oulidi
> wa qila waqt salat l'maghreb", I usualy say yes, it is. So, they take a
break to
> pray, the other woman goes to her home(next door) to pray and comes back
for
> more chating until the father comes home(and FINITO!, no more discussion).
Mon grand frere aussi et un non-communicatif, meme mon chat a peur de lui.
Malheureusement il est mort, j'ai envie de lui dire (A.Y) car je l'aimais
bien.
Je soupsconne mon grand frere de l'avoir tuer ( sans premiditation ) avec
l'khal3a ( la peur bleue), peut-etre il l'a suppris dans ma chambre et il
n'a pas trouve une issue pour s'enfuire( crise cardiaque )!!!
> You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the quran
that
> dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a
non-muslim
> name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and
basically
> non-algerian(since 650 A.C.), there existed no berber names since then.
Usually
> a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I personally
will
> never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified as
such
> while growing up in a muslim(majority) land...
Le nom c'est une facon de dire que nous existons. Si le gouvernement
algerien ou marocain actuellement n'a pas interdit ces noms, je crois que je
ferais comme toi. Il n'y a pas de fumee sans feu.
Mes enfants seront musulmans comme moi, mais je tacherai a leurs parler de
notre histoire du debut jusqu'a maintenant, sans occulter la periode
musulmane.
> You may notice that most (if not all) the albanians in Kosovo have a
muslim
> name.
C'est le passage des ottomans. Je connais une Bosniaque qui s'appelle aussi
Salima ( Au fait mon nom c'est Salem ), mais leur Islam est different un
petit peu du notre. Ex : l'Aid el Fitr, ils ne le fetent pas juste apres le
ramadhan, mais le jour suivant et durant trois jours.
Bof, je n'ai rien dit, c'est une dakhla pour te dire que je connais une
Bosniaque, mon dieu qu'elle est belle!!!!
If you love your father you may respect his wishes, and if you love
> Tamazight you may fight for it, it is your right, you may ask for what you
lack
> but you should never neglect what you already have, and you can't be from
> coucass-loural, the land of el-Mack.
> The Kabyles of the petite-kabylie had a lot to do with the arabs, they
formed
> the fatimids dynasty and their language has always been arabic, up to now,
most
> of them think that they are actually arabs (as you do), being Fatimide=
> Descendant of Fatima Zohra=the prophet's daughter.
Mais Fodil, Lorsque quelqu'un se dit Communiste ou Leniniste est ce pour
cela il se considere comme le descendant de Lenine ? Je ne crois pas. C'est
vrai la vallee de la soummam etait sous influence Fatimide, pas uniquement
cette region mais de Bejaia jusqu'a Canstantine, le centre certes etait
Bejaia, mais ils n'avaient applique que la doctrine Fatimide.
Il y avait aussi les senhadjas, el hamadeyines. Etc.
Depuis quand tu n'as pas visite Bejaia ? Il y a une grande prise de
consience Amazigh depuis 1980...
Je ne sais pas si l'as remarque je n'utilise jamais les mots Grande-Kabylie
et Petite-Kabylie, c'est une nommination issue des francais pour bien nous
diviser, je dis plutot les Kabyles de Tizi, les Kabyle de Sidi-Aich, les
Kabyle D'Amizour, d'Alger.
You are an Arabo-Berber, so
> are most Algerains(if not all), very few in grande kabylie did not get
> mixed...You can never let the arab in you go, it's in the blood...(you may
get
> upset, mad..but the truth can't be hidden)--KARA-M..
> Kima qalha "Bledna bled l'mashakil wa l'bled illi ma fihash l'mashakel
mashi
> bled", Allah ikhardjna fi swab, wa ma nassawsh wash wassawna l'waldeen, wa
rana
> kamel ouled l'familia, wa ouled l'qoh iruhu idoumssu wa idazu maahum...
Tu sais mon reve Fodil, c'est utopique, mais ma3 lich : C'est de voir tous
les algeriens de France courir vers les Aeroports de Roissy et de Orly pour
reserver leur One Way Ticket ( un ticket sans retour ) au Bled.
On va tous partir et leur demontrer que nous sommes fiers d'etre Algerien,
que nous sommes capables de construire un pays democratique et moderne ou il
y aura la liberte d'expression, la joie de vivre, les enfants heureux, des
femmes heureuses, tout le monde trouvera son compte... Pince moi je reve !
J'en ai marre de leur expression "A QUOI BON L'INDEPENDANCE", je suis un
ecorche vif tant que je vis dans ce pays qui m'a pris mon pere, mes freres
algeriens.
Remarque : J'ai une bonne situation en France, mais ce n'est pas la
l'essentiel, il y a beaucoup d'algeriens qui souffrent, le racisme.
> Note: Ziyara taa l'goubat wa l'sayed is a tradition that got infiltrated
in the
> religion of islam, it was banned, for it is actually non-islamic doing so.
Men
> do not posssess baraka, the christians beleive so, so do the idole
worshippers,
> a man cannot be praised nor idolized, he may be a role model(as Mohamed
was for
> most muslims)..
Je crois que Bouzid l'a bien explique : "Nous, nous venererons les morts
donc le passe, eux, les vivants donc le futur" je ne suis pas un adepte de
ces pratiques.
> There is a diferrence between SIRA(the ways) and SIFA(the physics, the
looks),
> most muslims confused and took both words to mean the same thing....
> BTW: Is your name really Massine?, it's a cool name!, it sounds better
than the
> original name, an other thing: There is no proof that the Kabyles(surtout
taa
> G.K.(el-Mack) are descendant of Massinissa and the others, probably
ot,( I am
> not kidding..)
> Take care!
> Fodil
Nous etions un peuple Nomade, donc nous ne pouvons rien prouver.
On parlera de ca plus tard, tu m'as refroidi wa3lash.
Ramarque : Il y a a Bejaia un fleuve qui s'appelle ( Assif ou massine ),
d'ou mon pseudonyme.
Assif veut dire fleuve.
Massine. Car Fodil le trouve cool.
Fodil
There exists a misconception among the muslims is when they hear the word
"hadith", they beleive it is the saying of Mohamed,ie. =Hadith=Mohamed's authentic
words. No muslim was ever told that the "ahadiths" were written down by others,
and most of them contradict each others. One day, one algerian(muslim) sent me an
e-mail asking me "Where does it say that the ahadiths were written by other
humans?", of course, my understanding was that he truly beleives that the
"ahadiths" are divine words that came from Mohamed. I beleive that the
mis-understanding of the arabic language that makes us think so:
ex: It is a Hadith, therefore it must be true, since Mohamed said it and Mohamed
never lies, I wish that this was true. We all know by now that the ahadiths by
Mohamed must agree with the quran, for the simple reason that the quran says so,
if not Mohamed, himself we'll be called "murtad-kaffir"?!!..In my book, the
ahadiths should have been banned as Omar did oreder them of doing so, the Quran is
ENOUGH, is all what the muslims need. Ahadiths talk about the ancestral worship
and praise it, one shall not wonder why the "Kabyles" and most rural people
practiced it for centuries, they do beleive in the "baraka-holliness" of humans.
A tradition that either the arabs practiced in pre-islamic era and diffused it all
over, or a practice already existed amongst the natives...
Of course some used it to have access to power and control...Examples can be found
all over throught the kabylie and rural areas..
Note: You responded to one of my posts regarding (Islam), I don't beleive that you
completely understood my message, ex: I did not say that the Quran was
fabricated(makhlook), but there existed(probably still is), a group amnongst the
muslims, called "mu3tazileen-separatists" that beleived that the quran was
"makhlook" therefore a separation of religion and state, and they came up with 5
basic rules( I already posted them), their basic rules were kept as islamic and
everything else was banned, and it became a blasphemy beleiving so. Nowadays, all
muslims(majority) beleive that the Quran is the only divine book, and everything
else was fabricated(true or false-good or bad), so all the answers must be found
in the quran, if it can't be found, it does not exist.
The role of the hadiths came up to just explain certain details in the book, ex:
Every sin is haram(kul ithm is haram), what is a sin?, the "fiqh" came up as the
sciences of the quran, some extended it to the ahadiths, beleiving that all can be
found in them, therefore taking the "ahadiths" not only as a complement of the
quran but as equivalent books. The ahadith can be taken as a supplement, if one
desires so, there is no obligation on any muslim to take them as part of
islam...The word sunna was also changed to include the "ahadiths' written by
others claiming that Mohamed was such and such (un-quranic) which eventually leads
into beleiving in "Ancestrol worship", i.e. "Hadithists"="Ancestrol Worshippers",
and not necessairly Muslims=Submitters to God the only and ALONE."
Fodil is M.A.F.I.A member as most Algerians are, (Uhiba aw Kariha)..
Khaled wrote:
> Salut Fodil
>
> Fodil wrote:
> >
> > Why el-Mack and his band of coucass beleive that Maatoub said:
> > 1. "Je ne suis ni Arabe ni Musulman" =(la nouvelle shahada)
> > 2. "Il faut venerer les ancetres"
> > 3. Never Say "Allah Yarhmu", for that was not his wish.
> > 4. Algeria shall be for the KABYLES of djurdjura(G.K.) (Imazighen)
>
> C'est de bonne questions. Cela m'interesserait de connaitre les réponses
> de celui/ceux à qui tu la pose.
>
> >
> > Some also believe that Ali Belhadj told them:
> > 1. "Kill all Kuffar (surtout l'qbayel taa G.K (kima Mo))
>
> Re : Parce que en ouvrant le livre dont tu parles, il a lu une ayat qui
> dis
> qlq chose dans ce genre. MAIS, rare sont les personnes qui connaissent
> vraiment la langue arabe et savent ce que le mot "Kuffar" veut dire !
>
> > 2. "Dimoqratia Kuffr, and the kaffir(i.e. any person pro-democracy) shall be
> > beheaded(rassu ittir).
>
> Re: Là en plus du concept "Kuffr" c'est en plus celui de "Dimoqratia"
> qu'ils
> ignorent.
>
> > 3. "Must wear gandoura, must grow a beard and must sit and eat on the
> > floor, no furniture allowed".
>
> Re: Là cela peut rejoindre en partie ta these sur les "ahadist". Mais,
> c'est surtout le fruit d'une "adolescence" mal vecue. Le reproduction
> des faits et gestes des parents est devenu la regle de vie.
>
> >
> > That is one more reason why the "Ahadiths" were fabricated, all of them
> > were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left a
> > BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other form
> > of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"..., he
> > should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
> >
> > Note to Mbouty: Your friend is "Hadithist", not a muslim..Muslims should not
> > care to what music others listen to, but should care about the well being of
> > the other member..
>
> Au lieu de "Hadithist" je prefere le terme de "Ancestor worshipper" !
>
> > Faith is personnal matter, but the family is for all and forever...
> >
> > Fodil.......
> >
>
> Khaled
Khaled
> Il a ecrit "le rebelle", deja traduit en langue Amazigh.
>
> Massine.
Salut Massine tu connais l'editeur (en français bien sûr j'en suis
encore aux pronoms personnel en Amazigh :-)) ?
Khaled
Khaled
Esxcuse moi d'avoir SNIPer certaines parties de ton post. Je connais
ton point de vue en generale sur la question pour l'avoir lu mainte
fois auparavent. Mais je voudrais connaitres certains détails.
> No muslim was ever told that the "ahadiths" were written down by others,
> and most of them contradict each others.
Juste pour que tu me clarifie une chose au depart. Crois-tu oui ou non
que des "hadith" que le prophete a vraiments dis sont aujourd'hui dans
les
differents saHih ?
> We all know by now that the ahadiths by
> Mohamed must agree with the quran, for the simple reason that the quran says so,
> if not Mohamed, himself we'll be called "murtad-kaffir"?!!..
I have not understood the question ? (Maybe my poor english )
> In my book, the
Tu as ecris un livre ?
> ahadiths should have been banned as Omar did oreder them of doing so,
Question problematique. Comment refuser certains "ahadith" sous pretexte
qu'ils ont été "posé" (mawdhu3) et accepter un on-dis raporté de Omar ?
> the Quran is
> ENOUGH, is all what the muslims need.
Peux-tu clarifier plus avant ce que tu entends par (ENOUGHT) ?
> Ahadiths talk about the ancestral worship
> and praise it,
Encore une fois J'ai pas bien compris ? Stp WadhaH chwiya !
> Note: You responded to one of my posts regarding (Islam), I don't beleive that you
> completely understood my message,
for sure. rani andicapi flangliziya.
> ex: I did not say that the Quran was
> fabricated(makhlook), but there existed(probably still is), a group amnongst the
> muslims, called "mu3tazileen-separatists" that beleived that the quran was
> "makhlook" therefore a separation of religion and state, and they came up with 5
> basic rules( I already posted them), their basic rules were kept as islamic and
> everything else was banned, and it became a blasphemy beleiving so.
For (existed and probably yet) : yes maybe but do not have a confidente
source.
For your (therfore) : Pour ce que j'ai lu sur eux je ne rejoint pas tout
à fait
ton idée sur eux. Mais c'est pas important pour l'instant.
> The role of the hadiths came up to just explain certain details in the book, ex:
> Every sin is haram(kul ithm is haram), what is a sin?, the "fiqh" came up as the
> sciences of the quran, some extended it to the ahadiths, beleiving that all can be
> found in them, therefore taking the "ahadiths" not only as a complement of the
> quran but as equivalent books. The ahadith can be taken as a supplement, if one
> desires so, there is no obligation on any muslim to take them as part of
> islam...The word sunna was also changed to include the "ahadiths' written by
> others claiming that Mohamed was such and such (un-quranic) which eventually leads
> into beleiving in "Ancestrol worship", i.e. "Hadithists"="Ancestrol Worshippers",
> and not necessairly Muslims=Submitters to God the only and ALONE."
Je vois depuis longtemps ce terme anglais Submitters pourrais tu m'en
donner
une traduction ou explication exacte en français.
Khaled
Fodil
Khaled wrote:
> Trés beau post ya Fodil. Ah quand tu t'y met serieusement ....
>
Asmaa ya Khaled, anaya tojor seriou, ghir ki nhab ndjib l'waqt b' shi djmaa taa
l'coucass wa ahlu l'mmokh wa illa akhirihi..Kima nqulu f' l'bled "illi faqu rahu..",
Khaled,
It has been over 1,400 years that Mohamed initiated the fondation(ssas) of Islam.
For sure names (prenonms) were not part of it at all. The foundation of islam is
built on a family structure, where the words father and mother do not exist, but
brothers and sisters do, and everybody's is the brother's keeper(biblical also).
Muslims do not attribute the word father to God, neither the word mother of God
referring to Mary.
A name identifies a person, and one must wish for his brother what he wishes for
himself, the good and the only. The fondation of Islam is not based on the
traditional belief "the five pillars of islam" (arkane el-islam khamssa)", there is
no verse that says so, but may be implied and many more pillars do exist and they
were left out by some.
It is more likely if a person name him/herself a muslim name, he/she wants to
identify with islamite' and adhere and be part of the familly. It is a well known
fact that the name "Jean-Claude" and/or Francois must be a french and/or of a french
roots.
As your question to berbers jews adopted jewish names is basically they wanted to be
identified as such, there existed, and they still do ,jews that have arabic names,
and even arabic last names. An other example, Abraham, Aissa, Moussa, Youcef...are
not arabic names, but to the muslims they are also muslim names, for they all
beleived in the same foundation..Biblical names as well as islamic/arabic names are
not foreign to islam.
If someone name his kids a non biblical/non-muslim name, he must teach them that a
name is just like a number and they should pledge to the family (Wa inna Allaha
yanduru illa qulibikum (quran).}.and not to your names..I think names is a personal
matter, so is speaking a different language besides arabic, and it is not a familly
matter.
The following is also or has become part of the foundation of islam:
1.tawhîd- the unity of God. God could not be conceived by any human
conception. .
2.3adl- divine justice. Facing the porblem of existence of evil in a world
where God is omnipotent, pointing out at the human free will, so
that evil stems from erronous human acts. God does no evil, and he
demands not from any human to perform any evil act. If man's evil acts
had been from the will of God, then punishment would have been
meaningless, as man performed God's will no matter what he did.
3.'al-wa3d wa-l-wa3îd- promise and threat. This comprised questions on the
Last day and the Day of Judgement.
4.'al-manzila bayna l-manzilatayn- the position between the two position.
This involved a middle position between the extremes of Kharijis and
Murji'is.
5.'al-amru bil-ma3ruuf wal-nahy 3ani l-munkar- commanding the good and
prohibiting the evil. This involved spreading the message of Islam
If naming your kid a non-islamic name is to create "munkar-evil" such as calling for
separation between algerians is your intent, you are no longer a member and other
"pillars" calls it a blasphemy, therefore punishment is mandatory...
Personally I thiink that names are an option..One does not need to be named to exist
and live, traditionally the arabs call themselves by their sons/daughter's name
(Abu-Bakr...), a practice still in existence in the arabian peninsula and in the
middle east. In the US, one can have different names as he/she pleases,but they are
all numbered, it is the number that counts the most, the name does not mean a thing
anymore..
I believe that the government shall not interfere nor have the right to control the
population, a practice well engineered under democracy. Democracy is not enough to
ensure the freedom of the individual, it protects mainly the ones that enforce it,
and the ones with a lot of cash..being free does not necessairly mean being able to
engage in different businees deals and/or swimming naked at the beach, it entails
more than that.
and remember that nobody is free when some are still in prison, no human shall take
the freedom of the other..(better solutions are available),.Democracy is
demo-schkoopi, hashak!..Everybody is living scared, you make one false move, you hit
the slammer..There is no prison system in islam, everybody shall be free, familly
members can supervise their own wrong doers, if all beleived in its solidarity and
its foundations, that is my beleif, no need to elaborate..We all know what screwed up
the whole thing and made it very disfunctional, the ones that can't see must be blind
and deaf (sens figuratif).
In other words, democracy is necessairy but not sufficient, that is why most muslims
can never be satisfied with the word democracy alone!, never..
Take care!
Fodil(MAFIA por tojor ki l'khwa)
> J'ai un petit commentaire.
>
> >
> > You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the quran that
> > dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-muslim
> > name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and basically
> > non-algerian(since 650 A.C.), there existed no berber names since then. Usually
> > a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I personally will
> > never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified as such
> > while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
> > You may notice that most (if not all) the albanians in Kosovo have a muslim
> > name. If you love your father you may respect his wishes, and if you love
> > Tamazight you may fight for it, it is your right, you may ask for what you lack
> > but you should never neglect what you already have,
>
Bmadani52
Tu as ecris un livre ?>>
C'est une expression. "in my book" = fi raayi.
Khaled
Fodil je respecte profondement ton avis. Je veux juste rappeler deux
ptit chose :
1/ J'avais déja dis à Bouzid, que Dieu dans le Qur'an nous apprends que
des Jinn
ont entendu le livre de Dieu et y ont crut. Pour dire que cette histoire
de Famille
Ok plus ou moins mais n'en fait pas un Dogme à ma connaissance les Jinn
sont si
differents de nous et malgrés cela cette religion (Dinn) leur va comme
un gants.
2/ Je penses sincerement que des "fixations" sur des choses comme le
prenoms
(soit disant islamique) est trés comparable à la fixation que certains
font
sur le port de la Lahya (la barbe) !
L'essence de la chose ya Fodil, l'ESSENCE...laissent aux hommes se
débrouillé
pour les détails.
> The following is also or has become part of the foundation of islam:
>
> 1.tawhîd- the unity of God. God could not be conceived by any human
> conception. .
>
> 2.3adl- divine justice. Facing the porblem of existence of evil in a world
> where God is omnipotent, pointing out at the human free will, so
> that evil stems from erronous human acts. God does no evil, and he
> demands not from any human to perform any evil act. If man's evil acts
> had been from the will of God, then punishment would have been
> meaningless, as man performed God's will no matter what he did.
>
> 3.'al-wa3d wa-l-wa3îd- promise and threat. This comprised questions on the
> Last day and the Day of Judgement.
>
> 4.'al-manzila bayna l-manzilatayn- the position between the two position.
> This involved a middle position between the extremes of Kharijis and
> Murji'is.
>
> 5.'al-amru bil-ma3ruuf wal-nahy 3ani l-munkar- commanding the good and
> prohibiting the evil. This involved spreading the message of Islam
>
Un légé commentaire pour le point 5 : As-tu lu mon post sur la question
?
pour l'instant "al-ma3ruuf" n'est pas le "Good" ya Fodil !
> If naming your kid a non-islamic name is to create "munkar-evil" such as calling for
> separation between algerians is your intent, you are no longer a member and other
> "pillars" calls it a blasphemy, therefore punishment is mandatory...
> Personally I thiink that names are an option..One does not need to be named to exist
> and live, traditionally the arabs call themselves by their sons/daughter's name
> (Abu-Bakr...), a practice still in existence in the arabian peninsula and in the
> middle east. In the US, one can have different names as he/she pleases,but they are
> all numbered, it is the number that counts the most, the name does not mean a thing
> anymore..
> I believe that the government shall not interfere nor have the right to control the
> population, a practice well engineered under democracy. Democracy is not enough to
> ensure the freedom of the individual, it protects mainly the ones that enforce it,
> and the ones with a lot of cash..being free does not necessairly mean being able to
> engage in different businees deals and/or swimming naked at the beach, it entails
> more than that.
Fodil je penses que le plus urgent du moins ce qui est du domaine du
possible
ce n'est pas tant l'interference du gouvernement mais plutot la
tolerence entre
citoyens. Le respect à la difference. Et faire tout pour que plus jamais
nul
n'est choqué quand il voit un autre citoyen faire une chose qu'il ne
fait jamais
lui ou tenir un discourt avec lequel il n'est pas tout à fait d'accord.
Au dela du gouvernement il faut d'abord "natHamlu fi ba3dana" ya Fodil.
Et on est
encore bien loin du compte. Des gens qui ont la chance d'être instruit
et intelligent
en plus peuvent faire des choses pour cela.
> and remember that nobody is free when some are still in prison, no human shall take
> the freedom of the other..(better solutions are available),.Democracy is
> demo-schkoopi, hashak!..Everybody is living scared, you make one false move, you hit
> the slammer..There is no prison system in islam, everybody shall be free, familly
> members can supervise their own wrong doers, if all beleived in its solidarity and
> its foundations, that is my beleif, no need to elaborate..We all know what screwed up
> the whole thing and made it very disfunctional, the ones that can't see must be blind
> and deaf (sens figuratif).
> In other words, democracy is necessairy but not sufficient, that is why most muslims
> can never be satisfied with the word democracy alone!, never..
>
> Take care!
> Fodil(MAFIA por tojor ki l'khwa)
Fodil tu dis "There is no prison system in islam" cette sentence est
rigourement
fausse. Elle pourrait être : "Dans un modèle islamique de gouvernement
qui fut appliqué
en periode telle à l'endroit tel il n'y avait pas de prison", mais nul
ne l'interdis.
Fodil, l'image de la religion qui est soit baydha soit KaHla n'est qu'un
heritage
des religions monotheistes (perverties) pre-islamique. Il n'y a pas que
le Hallal
et le Haram dans le livre de Dieu ya Fodil. L'Histoire du razoire sur
lequel
marche le musulman pour arriver à la porte de la Jenna n'est que produit
d'une
immagination fertille.
Pour celui qui lit le livre de Dieu avec confiance et sans trops se figé
à ce
que sa famillia lui a appris, c'est des milliard de combinaison de
systemes
politiques qu'il peut déduire et tous restant dans le domaine de Dieu
(Fi Huddud
Allah). C'est la rigidity qui rends les choses disfonctionnelle ya
Fodil, un
systeme basé sur la consultation populaire (Election démocratique) n'est
pas
Anti-islamique ya Fodil, je ne veux te choquer peut-etre pour te dire
plus.
Khaled
Khaled
Merci Blanca : Dorka fhemt
Khaled
PS: By the way i finally found it. Look at it :
"Je ne suis ni n'est jamais été partisan d'amener d'une façon quelconque
l'égalité sociale et politique des races blanches et noire; je ne suis
pas, je n'ai jamais été partisan de faire des noirs des électeurs ou des
jurés [...] J'ajouterais qu'il existe entre les races blanches et noire
une différence physique qui, je crois interdira toujours que les deux
races vivent ensemble dans une situation d'égalité sociale et
politique..."
A. LINCOLN
(c'est fort non ?!)
Fodil
I understand exactly your friend's motif (hakda qalu lu), they told him so. He was
taught their way of islam, a religion, a faith created by the "ahadiths" writers
and being promoted by sheikh el-keshk wa djmaatu. I bet they never told him that a
muslim should never interfere with anybody's else personal faith, and it is a sin
to falsly accuse someone of wrong-doing without a reasonable doubt and only God
shall judge the wrong-doer, but he took the law in his own hand and he became the
judge, the proscutor and the executionner a typical "hadithi" religion. Quran
forbids all this non-sense, in my eyes he is not a muslim, but a sect
follower...probably his brother can be classified as a better muslim than he is,
and one shall not blame your friend, but the ones that taught him so are to blame,
they are teaching him the way of jihl and they call it an islamic law?!...
As far as Matoob is concerned, it is the general belief amongst the berberistos
that he decalred himself a non-muslim and non-arab. By the way in the sunni islam
religion, one shall be condemmed to death if she/he rennounces his/her islamite',
and I don't think Maatoub was foul enough to claim so publically, knowing the fact
that most kabyles are sunni muslims. Your friend forbade his brother from listening
to his music, somebody else may easily kill him for declaring so. If Maatoub was
born of a non-muslim familly(ex. christian),which I doubt it, he could've not been
murdered by a person of muslim faith, but if he was muslim and renounced it , it
could be true (wa Allah aalem)...
The point I was trying to make is very clear, as soon as a famous and/or an
influential person passes away, all kind of rumors start to generate, and most of
them full of controversy, your arguments and those of el-Mack contradict each
others. The same thing we may find among the "ahadith", many of them contradict
each other, but some do beleive in both, and they find a crazy way to justify their
belief....The "teachings" of Maatoub do not look promising to me, neither do the
ones of A. Belhadj (and he is still alive), as soon as somebody dies, they start to
praise him and idolize him,and fabricating all kind of whatever suit their needs, a
human thing...!!.
Ex: It suits the berbeistos to be non-muslims, non-arabs, it works for their agenda
and not against it. Being muslim and arab works against them, so he declared
himself a BERBER/Amazigh and non-muslim, renounced the islamic identity, and this
business about islam is a religion and it is a personal matter is plain bull and
has no basis, you either are muslim or you are not, you either pledge and become a
member or not, and the membership is free of charge and it is avalable 24/7 to
anybody, they just have to prounounce the sentence, if he never pronounced the
shahada he can't call himself a member, i.e. a muslim. Having nothing against
islam, and beleiving that islam is like any other religion and it is a personal
manner, does not mean that somebody declares himself a muslim, if somebody thinks
that he is, he just has to declare it publically, and there is nothing to hide for
the ones that are truthful.
Take care!
Fodil
Fodil
Fodil
I did not read your message and I have not seen the documentary, the sheikh
cannot answer this true muslim questions, for the sheikh cannot call himself a
muslim and worship others besides Allah.
The(most of them) shoyoukhs love the "ahadiths" and fairy tails, it works for
them and give them power to control the weak minds, they did invent laws, such
as "le code de la famille", ect...
You do not surprise me in your traditinalist thinking, you are a fatimide
anyway...
Believe me, makash minha hadi taa "el-hadiths", Wa Allahi el-aadhim wa uqssimu
bi Allahi Al-aadhim : "He/she whoever takes ahadith to complement the quran
cannot be called a muslim, but Mushrik bi Allah", one may take "hadith" as a
supplement and/or an option but not as a religious law, God never forgot, the
book is complete and fully detailed, God is omnipotent, no need for Abu-guernina
to write other fairy tails, most of them are full of contradictions and make no
sense.
It was "the ahadiths" that descriminate against women, there are tons of them
about women (from their sexuality to how satanic they are). Mohamed never
authorized the writtings of "ahadiths", never!, they wrote them down, because
"venerer" was an old tradition.....(fill in the blank).
Fodil
Take care!-
Massine wrote:
> > That is one more reason why the "Ahadiths" were fabricated, all of them
> > were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left a
> > BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other form
>
> Wallah, Fodil, rak takfar, je ne sais pas est-ce que tu as lu mon ancien
> post ou je t'ai parle de l'Emission sur la tele Quatari ( el qatar ) "A
> chari3a ou el hayat", une personne s'entete a dire la meme chose que toi sur
> les ahadiths, et le Cheikh n'a meme pas voulu repondre a cette question, et
> il le traitait de "ahl enar", les damnes.
>
> > of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"..., he
> > should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
>
Bmadani52
Ashkoun dit le suivant?
Fodil
Bmadani52 wrote:
> <<> In my book, the
>
> Tu as ecris un livre ?>>
>
> C'est une expression. "in my book" = fi raayi.
Ana nqul hakda wa antiya trduiziha kim tanfah lek..
Fodil
Khaled wrote:
> Salut Fodil
>
> Esxcuse moi d'avoir SNIPer certaines parties de ton post. Je connais
> ton point de vue en generale sur la question pour l'avoir lu mainte
> fois auparavent. Mais je voudrais connaitres certains détails.
>
> > No muslim was ever told that the "ahadiths" were written down by others,
> > and most of them contradict each others.
>
> Juste pour que tu me clarifie une chose au depart. Crois-tu oui ou non
> que des "hadith" que le prophete a vraiments dis sont aujourd'hui dans
> les
> differents saHih ?
>
Khaled,1. The "ahadiths" were not supposed to be part of islam at all, how do you
expect me to believe in such a thing.
2. In my view, all ahadiths are false(guilty) until proven right(sahih) in the true book
of law.
Je pense que tous les ahadiths sont faux sauf s' ils peuvent etre prouver d'etre en
accord et correct aupres du quran.
I don't believe in such a thing as hadith sahih, daheef, hassan ,moyen, smine...wa illa
akhirihi..
Tu me donnes un hadith a condition que je trouve la reference dans le quran, sinon je
lui fait une croix rouge le marquant comme "satanic verse", told and fabricated by a
homosatan, can't be a muslim, la plupart des "ahadiths" ont ete' ecrit 2 siecle a 4
siecles apres sa mort..
> > We all know by now that the ahadiths by
> > Mohamed must agree with the quran, for the simple reason that the quran says so,
> > if not Mohamed, himself we'll be called "murtad-kaffir"?!!..
>
> I have not understood the question ? (Maybe my poor english )
Ce n'est pasune question, j'ai mis "Kaffir"(pour confirmer la contradiction)
>
Tout le monde, et chaque musulman, doit savoire que les vraix ahadiths dites par Mohamed
doivent etre en accord avec le Quran, sinon Mohamed, lui meme, doit etre considerer
comme un kaffir( a contradiction), i.e. Mohamed n'a jamais rien dit qui complemente
and/or contredit le quran, et on trouve plein des "ahadith" SAHIH de ce genre.
> > In my book, the
>
> Tu as ecris un livre ?
> Plusieurs livres, but most of them are still in my mind (my book).
> > ahadiths should have been banned as Omar did oreder them of doing so,
>
> Question problematique. Comment refuser certains "ahadith" sous pretexte
> qu'ils ont été "posé" (mawdhu3) et accepter un on-dis raporté de Omar ?
>
No, Omar a donne l'ordre au musulmans de ne plus ecrire des "ahadiths", il leur a dit
"arretez d'inventer des histoires sur Mohamed, le Quran est complet et parfait."
> > the Quran is
> > ENOUGH, is all what the muslims need.
>
> Peux-tu clarifier plus avant ce que tu entends par (ENOUGHT) ?
>
Enough= Assez,El-Quran yakfina wa el-ahadith zyada wa la plus-part khorti, Mohamed
jamais qal hadak shi, mashi mahbool,
> > Ahadiths talk about the ancestral worship
> > and praise it,
>
> Encore une fois J'ai pas bien compris ? Stp WadhaH chwiya !
>
Ki taqra el-ahadith, tssib bezzaf el-khorti wa el-hikayet aala Mohamed, mathalan kifash
kan Mohamed yarqud maa martu, kifash kan idir lha ki tkun b' les regles, kifash rebbi
warralou nssa fi djahanemma..wa lazam wahed ya3bad Mohamed wa itab3 siratu.., aala
khatesh Mohamed qrib aala rebbi aala kamel el-anbiya...wa illa akhirihi..El-ahadith
kamel aala "sirat" wa siffat Mohamed..., quelques uns parlent de sa justice et sa bonne
conduite comme etre human, mais la plus part parlent de ses "gestes", habitudes et sa
vie privee', les musulmans ne doivent pas savoire la personalite' de Mohamed, tout est
contenu dans le Quran...
All what the muslims need to know is available in the Quran...
To submit = se soumettre= se rendre a Dieu= Muslim..
Islam=Sumission a Dieu = et Pas "Sunna wa el- Hadith wa el-Kitab"(Trinity?!).
> > Note: You responded to one of my posts regarding (Islam), I don't beleive that you
> > completely understood my message,
>
> for sure. rani andicapi flangliziya.
>
> > ex: I did not say that the Quran was
> > fabricated(makhlook), but there existed(probably still is), a group amnongst the
> > muslims, called "mu3tazileen-separatists" that beleived that the quran was
> > "makhlook" therefore a separation of religion and state, and they came up with 5
> > basic rules( I already posted them), their basic rules were kept as islamic and
> > everything else was banned, and it became a blasphemy beleiving so.
>
> For (existed and probably yet) : yes maybe but do not have a confidente
> source.
>
> For your (therfore) : Pour ce que j'ai lu sur eux je ne rejoint pas tout
> à fait
> ton idée sur eux. Mais c'est pas important pour l'instant.
>
> > The role of the hadiths came up to just explain certain details in the book, ex:
> > Every sin is haram(kul ithm is haram), what is a sin?, the "fiqh" came up as the
> > sciences of the quran, some extended it to the ahadiths, beleiving that all can be
> > found in them, therefore taking the "ahadiths" not only as a complement of the
> > quran but as equivalent books. The ahadith can be taken as a supplement, if one
> > desires so, there is no obligation on any muslim to take them as part of
> > islam...The word sunna was also changed to include the "ahadiths' written by
> > others claiming that Mohamed was such and such (un-quranic) which eventually leads
> > into beleiving in "Ancestrol worship", i.e. "Hadithists"="Ancestrol Worshippers",
> > and not necessairly Muslims=Submitters to God the only and ALONE."
>
Fodil
Bmadani52 wrote:
> <<Ana nqul hakda wa antiya trduiziha kim tanfah lek..>.
>
> I thought "ana" wasn't used in darja! I like these short sentences. Don't have
> to think so hard to figure them out!
Say what?, everything is allowed in l'3arbia(derdja), there is no rule, just
qulli wash tahwelek, wash tanfeh lek , kima habitti, wash djak fi rass, wash idjik
fi rayek..
All the above mean the same thing..(ana = anaya, it depends on the tence of the
verbe and/or the noun....(there is some kind of rule, but used only in poetry and
songs)
Take care!
Khaled
>
> Salaam, Khaled,
Salaam
>
> Ashkoun dit le suivant?
Walliti tu parles darja comme les algeriens. Nuss 3arbiya Nuss français.
Apte pour l'integration ! Adjujé !
Pour ta question relis mon post et va jusqu'en bas du message !!!!
Bmadani52
You should hear me in person. Some Arabic, some French, but some Spanish
sometimes too. My Spanish and French get all confused. LOL!
Bmadani52
Khaled
Je reponds en vrac à ton post alors excuse moi pour la forme.
> To submit = se soumettre= se rendre a Dieu= Muslim..
> Islam=Sumission a Dieu = et Pas "Sunna wa el- Hadith wa al Kitab"(Trinity?!).
1/ Pour la signification du mot "Islam" et sa restriction à "se
soumettre".
Je ne suis pas d'accord. Le mot "se soumettre" a son pendant en langue
arabe
bien exact (je te le posterais dés qu'il me revient en memoire) et je ne
crois pas que c'est "ASLAMA".
Fodil wrote:
>
> Khaled wrote:
> > > No muslim was ever told that the "ahadiths" were written down by others,
> > > and most of them contradict each others.
> >
> > Juste pour que tu me clarifie une chose au depart. Crois-tu oui ou non
> > que des "hadith" que le prophete a vraiments dis sont aujourd'hui dans
> > les
> > differents saHih ?
> >
>
> Khaled,1. The "ahadiths" were not supposed to be part of islam at all, how do you
> expect me to believe in such a thing.
Ma question n'etait pas là dessus. I expect you to nothing about that !
>
> 2. In my view, all ahadiths are false(guilty) until proven right(sahih) in the true book
> of law.
> Je pense que tous les ahadiths sont faux sauf s' ils peuvent etre prouver d'etre en
> accord et correct aupres du quran.
>
C'est une position assez originale. de part l'histoire de la pensée
humaine c'est plutot
le contraire qui est la regle : "Tous le monde est inocent jusqu'à
preuve du contraire".
Maintenant pour la loi de Dieu, l'accusation doit ramener des "chahid"
pour prouver que
tel est "guilty" ou pas faute de quoi il est ignocent. Je peut dire plus
mais cela
suffit pour l'instant.
> I don't believe in such a thing as hadith sahih, daheef, hassan ,moyen, smine...wa illa
> akhirihi..
> Tu me donnes un hadith a condition que je trouve la reference dans le quran, sinon je
> lui fait une croix rouge le marquant comme "satanic verse", told and fabricated by a
> homosatan, can't be a muslim, la plupart des "ahadiths" ont ete' ecrit 2 siecle a 4
> siecles apres sa mort..
>
La question des conditions historique de la constituation et l'ecriture
du corpus
des hadith est interessante mais peut-etre pour plus tard.
> Tout le monde, et chaque musulman, doit savoire que les vraix ahadiths dites par Mohamed
> doivent etre en accord avec le Quran, sinon Mohamed, lui meme, doit etre considerer
> comme un kaffir( a contradiction), i.e. Mohamed n'a jamais rien dit qui complemente
> and/or contredit le quran, et on trouve plein des "ahadith" SAHIH de ce genre.
>
"Mohamed n'a jamais rien dit qui complemente [...] le quran" ! Tu
semble bien sûe de
toi. Ex: en temps que chef d'etat applicant la Loi de Dieu il a bien
fixé certains détails
economic ou autre basé sur le coran mais qui n'y etait pas fixé ?! Tu ne
pense pas ?
Pour "contredire" ça c'est une autre question plus complexe à débattre.
Pour l'instant sur
le principe OK !
> > Question problematique. Comment refuser certains "ahadith" sous pretexte
> > qu'ils ont été "posé" (mawdhu3) et accepter un on-dis raporté de Omar ?
> >
>
> No, Omar a donne l'ordre au musulmans de ne plus ecrire des "ahadiths", il leur a dit
> "arretez d'inventer des histoires sur Mohamed, le Quran est complet et parfait."
La traduction que tu donnes je la trouve bizarre et je la connais pas.
Moi je connais "Aqillu min qalla rassulu allah" de Omar. La question
etait comment
crois tu que Omar a dis quelque chose de ce genre alors que la source
est peut-être
la même que ton abu hurraira que tu cherie :-)). Je ne comprends pas
bien ton
attitude, peux-tu m'expliquer ?
Au dela ma question etait : Mohammed etait un homme qui a dit des choses
comme tout
humain en dehors de reciter le "Wahy". Ex :" bonjour à qlq'un le matin".
Crois-tu que
ce soit possible de verifier s'il a oui ou non dis ça en cherchant dans
le Qur'an.
Vu que les textes qui disent ce genre de choses est "guilty" jusq'ua
preuve du contraire
ceci peut nous amener à penser qu'il n'a jamais sortie de sa bouche
autre chose que
Qur'an à partir de l'age de 40 ans.
>
> > > the Quran is
> > > ENOUGH, is all what the muslims need.
> >
> > Peux-tu clarifier plus avant ce que tu entends par (ENOUGHT) ?
> >
>
> Enough= Assez,El-Quran yakfina wa el-ahadith zyada wa la plus-part khorti, Mohamed
> jamais qal hadak shi, mashi mahbool,
>
Tu dis "la plupart des hadith sont Khorti";
As-tu lu tous les hadiths raportés ? Ou as-tu des statistiques sur la
proportion d'entre
eux qui est "khorti" ?
> > > Ahadiths talk about the ancestral worship
> > > and praise it,
> >
> > Encore une fois J'ai pas bien compris ? Stp WadhaH chwiya !
> >
>
> Ki taqra el-ahadith, tssib bezzaf el-khorti wa el-hikayet aala Mohamed, mathalan kifash
> kan Mohamed yarqud maa martu, kifash kan idir lha ki tkun b' les regles, kifash rebbi
> warralou nssa fi djahanemma..wa lazam wahed ya3bad Mohamed wa itab3 siratu.., aala
> khatesh Mohamed qrib aala rebbi aala kamel el-anbiya...wa illa akhirihi..El-ahadith
> kamel aala "sirat" wa siffat Mohamed..., quelques uns parlent de sa justice et sa bonne
> conduite comme etre human, mais la plus part parlent de ses "gestes", habitudes et sa
> vie privee', les musulmans ne doivent pas savoire la personalite' de Mohamed, tout est
> contenu dans le Quran...
> All what the muslims need to know is available in the Quran...
Fodil ce que chacun pioche ou trouve dans un livre de bukhari ou muslim
depends
de ce qu'il recherche.
Tu semble adopter une position "integriste" quand tu dis : "les
musulmans ne doivent pas
savoire la personalite' de Mohamed". Tu ne trouves pas ?
Khaled
Fodil
Let me rephrase my post for you in a couple of words:
1. The quran is complete, clear and fully detailed.
2. All answers pertaining to any religious practices can be found in the quran, for if they
cannot be found the following is true:
a. It just does not exist
b. The Muslim has the FREEDOM to use his REASON.
I don't care(je m'en fous) if the "ahadiths" were written by Mohamed, Aicha,Omar, Abu-Hurayra,
Jesus , Moeses or even Abraham, I have what I need..and I thank Mohamed for delivring the
MESSAGE, the only book of truth..(point finale).
I don't have to prove to you that the ahadiths are true or false, I just do not need them to
be a muslim.
As far as economy, commerce...ect. what ever cannot be found, the muslim is free to use his
reason(aaqal) again and INVENT, as long as it does not contradict anything already been said.
I think I made myself clear by now..
Note: The only reason I believe in islam is because of the existence of the Quran.
Take care!
Fodil
sad...@my-deja.com
Decidement, je n'arrive pas a comprendre ces personnes qui
traitent une personne decedee de tout les noms.
La LIBERTE d'EXPRESSION inclu la liberte de critiques, y compris
la critique de la religion et ainsi que celle de croire ou non
en dieu. Si Matoub a dit qu'il n'est pas arabe (ce qui est vrai)
et non musulman ( c'est son droit legitime), ou est votre probleme???
A vous lire, je comprend pourquoi les integristes n'ont pas
de problemes pour recruter des assassins.
In article <37719E87...@earthlink.net>,
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Why el-Mack and his band of coucass beleive that Maatoub said:
> 1. "Je ne suis ni Arabe ni Musulman" =(la nouvelle shahada)
> 2. "Il faut venerer les ancetres"
> 3. Never Say "Allah Yarhmu", for that was not his wish.
> 4. Algeria shall be for the KABYLES of djurdjura(G.K.) (Imazighen)
>
> Some also believe that Ali Belhadj told them:
> 1. "Kill all Kuffar (surtout l'qbayel taa G.K (kima Mo))
> 2. "Dimoqratia Kuffr, and the kaffir(i.e. any person pro-democracy)
shall be
> beheaded(rassu ittir).
> 3. "Must wear gandoura, must grow a beard and must sit and eat on the
> floor, no furniture allowed".
>
> That is one more reason why the "Ahadiths" were fabricated, all of
them
> were, it all started this way, regadless of the fact that Mohamed left
a
> BOOK well written, complete and fully detailed. The above is an other
form
> of "ahadiths", Maatoub should have written a book ,i.e. "Zenghan"...,
he
> should've studied, bessah ma qrash, Allah ghaleb aalih.
>
sou...@hotmail.com
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the
quran that
> dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-
muslim
> name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and
basically
> non-algerian(since 650 A.C.),
bullshit, izzane, , khra, caca!!!
There are non-Moslem names and non-Arab name, have been, will be in
North Africa! Are blind or just playing stupid?
there existed no berber names since then. Usually
> a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I
personally will
> never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified
as such
> while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
It's your freeking problem, don't impose it on others.
First of all, your daughter is US citizen. The big old USA is NOT an
Islamic country last time I checked!
Secondo, all what you're doing is making her life miserable, by making
her vulnerable to prejudice and discrimination in her future.
Your believes are in your hearts, not in the names.
> You may notice that most (if not all) the albanians in Kosovo have a
muslim
> name.
Another arabo-Islamist bullshit!
If you love your father you may respect his wishes, and if you love
> Tamazight you may fight for it, it is your right, you may ask for
what you lack
> but you should never neglect what you already have,
What do we have? A decade ago or so, over 70% of Amazigh speakers had a
Moslems or an Arab name. Check it out today, in any city hall where
the population is Amazigh speaker. The koreishy like you will have a
heart attack...
and you can't be from
> coucass-loural, the land of el-Mack.
> The Kabyles of the petite-kabylie had a lot to do with the arabs,
they formed
> the fatimids dynasty and their language has always been arabic,
Fakou ya si Fodil, there is no such a thing as Petite and Grand Kabylie
anymore! There is hand and five fingers! sghaar margou l'koum il ya
longtemps...
>
.
Mo Benali
sou...@hotmail.com wrote in message <7l14jd$j28$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <3771BDBC...@earthlink.net>,
> Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
>> You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the
>quran that
>> dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-
>muslim
>> name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and
>basically
>> non-algerian(since 650 A.C.),
>
>bullshit, izzane, , khra, caca!!!
>There are non-Moslem names and non-Arab name, have been, will be in
>North Africa! Are blind or just playing stupid?
>
>
>
> there existed no berber names since then. Usually
>> a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I
>personally will
>> never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified
>as such
>> while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
>
>It's your freeking problem, don't impose it on others.
Not only it is his freeking problem but his child's name is not muslim. It
may arabic origin but not nesssary muslim.
Fodil
I don't care if he was a jew or a buddist and even a barbarian, I am just
asking a question.
But the following is true:
Once you become muslim, you cannot quit, if you do you may be killed and/or
disowned.., and I am just informing you..
I think I made myself clear, nobody is asking anybody to become a muslim,
but you just cannot renounce your islamite' once in, you became a traitor,
and the penalty for the traitor is absolute DEATH..It is possible that he
was killed by an islamist, and in his religion he is ordered of doing
so..Got it!..
If you live amongst muslims, never speak against their belief, you must be a
fool for doing so, you should know it if you are a muslim, if not, I am just
advising you...Never tell an islamist that you are no longer a muslim(if you
ever were), and you pie on their koran, they'll take your life...(I am not
kiding you, nor threatning you, but just a simple advice).
Fodil
Fodil
Why you take it so serious,
I am not imposing...why do you always feel that someone is imposing
something on you, I just expressed my opinions, and I said (I, me)..and I
did not tell Massine HE should do that or this, the CHOICE is his..
Wa aalash taqraw naqss ya l'AARAB, wa aalash..
Soucha: I: means Ana, not YOU: Anta, I think this way, and YOU don't have to
think the same way as I do..You see a fact that you are raised muslim, you
think in term of a family (a group), the opinion of one concerns ALL, a
typical algerian mentality, including the extremist berberist(Saddim & Mo,
and others)..Read, and think, those are FODIL's opinions, and he is entitled
to them, and he is not imposing them on others..
I gave a defintion of Islam, they thought that I am imposing it on them!?,
why do you believe so?, why?, I am having hard time finding out!, is it
feeling guilt?,
You see, you can't allow the freedom of expression..You have to accept my
ways, and say but I , Soucha, thinks differently and to each his own
group..wa ssalam.
Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <3771BDBC...@earthlink.net>,
> Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > You may name your kids any name you wish, there is no verse in the
> quran that
> > dictates how humans shall be named, but some do name their kids a non-
> muslim
> > name to deny their belonging to the family and that is un-islamic and
> basically
> > non-algerian(since 650 A.C.),
>
> bullshit, izzane, , khra, caca!!!
> There are non-Moslem names and non-Arab name, have been, will be in
> North Africa! Are blind or just playing stupid?
>
> there existed no berber names since then. Usually
> > a name identify the person(the carrier) "asmu yaatik khbaru", I
> personally will
> > never name my kid a non-muslim name, for he/she won't be identified
> as such
> > while growing up in a muslim(majority) land..
>
> It's your freeking problem, don't impose it on others.
Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
> IIf Kader Ben Abdullah and John Smith apply for the same job, and have
> the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?
>
What if Yughurten Mackgrum and Omar Bendjerrah apply for the same job, and
have the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?, in
Algeria...
Fodil
Khaled
Take care Fodil,
Essaye de garder ton calme et d'user du même language dans tes posts sur
la religion. Cela eviterait pas mal de problemes.
Derniere chose n'arretes jamais d'apprendre et de chercher. Le jour ou
tu
pensera que tu détiens toute la véritée, ce jour là t'es "cuit". Une
phrase
de Isaac Newton que je trouve magnifique :
"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem
only to have been like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting
myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell
than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered
before me."
Bmadani52
First of all, your daughter is US citizen. The big old USA is NOT an
Islamic country last time I checked!
Secondo, all what you're doing is making her life miserable, by making
her vulnerable to prejudice and discrimination in her future.
Your believes are in your hearts, not in the names.>>
If the US discriminates, then one needs to correct the US. But actually, some
Muslim and Arab names have become quite acceptable. In fact, this year's Baby
Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered to be very
masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are difficult to
pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should consider
that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have to change
the kinds of names you choose.
Rashid T
>
>Derniere chose n'arretes jamais d'apprendre et de chercher. Le jour ou
>tu
>pensera que tu détiens toute la véritée, ce jour là t'es "cuit". Une
>phrase
>de Isaac Newton que je trouve magnifique :
>
>"I do not know what I may appear to the world; but to myself I seem
>only to have been like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting
>myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell
>than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered
>before me."
>
Saha Khaled.
Thank you for giving me a good reason to
be here. Humility is teachability.
Love and respect.
Rashid T
>Muslim and Arab names have become quite acceptable. In fact, this year's Baby
>Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered to be very
>masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are difficult
>to
>pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should consider
>that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have to
>change
>the kinds of names you choose.
>
I wonder what my Father and mother were thinking about when they named me
Rachid. They both are Kabyle.
In the US I changed the spelling pronto when Rachid was pronouced ratchid. It
was out of character. : ) lol
Rashid .
Love and respect.
sou...@hotmail.com
bmad...@aol.com (Bmadani52) wrote:
> <<It's your freeking problem, don't impose it on others.
> First of all, your daughter is US citizen. The big old USA is NOT an
> Islamic country last time I checked!
> Secondo, all what you're doing is making her life miserable, by making
> her vulnerable to prejudice and discrimination in her future.
> Your believes are in your hearts, not in the names.>>
>
> If the US discriminates, then one needs to correct the US. But
actually, some
year's Baby
> Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered to
be very
> masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are
difficult to
> pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should
consider
> that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have
to change
> the kinds of names you choose.
If Kader Ben Abdullah and John Smith apply for the same job, and have
the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?
>
Fodil
I am not against democracy, and free election, by far this is mandatory in islam.
La democratie est necessaire mais pas suffisante, c'etait ca mon point de vue.
I have been living in the land of democracy for years, but I don't feel free enough, when I
see thousands in prison, some falsly accused, or injustly condemended by jurors of 12
people.
I am against the prison system, a human is created FREE, he has to remain so, no matter
what.
Taking away his freedom is violating HUDUD ALLAH.
Can you explain to me your views about l'amru bi l'ma3roof wa nahyu aani l'munkari.
The following is my personal views about islam..Islam was created for humans to reach the
maximum freedom and happiness, that is the goal.
1. Humans are born free, therefore they have to remain so.
2. Humans are supposed to live as a big family, with interconnected cells(sub-families).
3. Government shall make sure that the goal is achieved, the government shall be appointed
by the members of the family. i.e. the sole role of the government is to strive to make the
family reach the goal..
The islam that we know is based solely on the different ways of religious practices.
Religious pratices may help the individual. We were fed whatever someone else thought was
right at a given specific era..
All laws are permitted, as long as they do not trangress the limits of god(la ta3duna hudud
Allah)..
Putting someone in prison and depriving him from his freedom = transgressing the limits of
God.
Note: I said names are not important, it is a personal choice, but it may work against the
individual..
ex: the ex-singer prince changed his name to a symbol,without any pronouciation, very
clever..symbol (ex: a flour-tree) is fine with me, and it is not un-islamic..
( when I say it is more likely = il est PROBABLE que, (I don't necessairly believe in
it),it is not a must do (but if it is than....). Mon point, je pensai qu'il etait clair,
les noms sont des OPTIONS...(you don't have to have a name to be a muslim or even to
exist)..
Khaled, je n'ai jamais dit que NOIR ou BLANC?!, je pense tout a fait le contraire, le mot
religion est relatif...Dommage que je ne pas m'exprimer autant que toi en francais...
I explained myself earlier, the rule of law 1. Reason 2. The Liberty of the individual
Anything that is reasonable is permitted in the quran, the liberty of the individual is
sacred.
Democracy is necessary for the above but not sufficient, muslims do posses other tools to
satisfy the needs of humans, and that is the Quran.,again democracy is needed and it is
ISLAMIC(my first post), the Quran is needed and it is the ONLY islamic true entity.
Fodil
Bmadani52
the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?>>
And don't you think that's something that needs to be changed if discrimination
occurs? Why should we have to give our children Anglo names? The US will get
use to it, and before you know it there will be lots of Kader Smiths and Fatima
Jones and Karim Josephs.
Bmadani52
have the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?, in
Algeria...>>
Depends on whether Omar Benjerrah dons an Islamist beard, then Yughurten will
get the job.
Amazigh are found in all fields in Algeria, including some pretty powerful
ones. They also own a lot of businesses.
Bmadani52
Rachid. They both are Kabyle.
In the US I changed the spelling pronto when Rachid was pronouced ratchid. It
was out of character. : ) lol
Rashid .>>
LOL, Rashid. Spelling changes are normal because French letters are pronounced
differently from American English counterparts.
Bmadani52
no matter
what.
Taking away his freedom is violating HUDUD ALLAH.>>
That's absurd. How can you think that murderers, rapists, and other serious
violators against the community or people dangerous to the well-being of a
country have any right to freedom? With the right of freedom comes
responsibility, and if you don't meet that responsibility, you have no right to
freedom.
Khaled
> Saha Khaled.
> Thank you for giving me a good reason to
> be here. Humility is teachability.
I will respond : Thank you, YOU also "for giving me a good reason to
be here"
> Love and respect.
Respectueusement
Khaled
Khaled
mon point faible, je ne sais pas reflechir et ecrire vite comme toi.
Je te repondrais bientot car le(s) sujet(s) abordé(s) est important.
Pour l'instant un légé point sou sforme de question :
QUI fixe le limites de Dieu (Huddud Allah) ?
Ou as-tu vu ou lu que la prison transgresse (tata3ada) les limites
de Dieu ?
Pour le concept d' "al-amr bil ma3ruf wa nahy 3ani al munkar" je vais
te chercher sur Deja mon message et te le reposter, apres on pourra
discuter si tu veux.
Salut
Fodil
One shall not trangress the limits of Allah, and Allah does not like the
transgresors mu3tadeen..(quran).
The quran is the only source of religious guidence and rule, it is agreed
upon by all muslims. The Quran confirms it and stresses it on several
occasions, I'm not going to repeat myself again about this, I already
wrote down about this and have been for over a year..No book shall equate
the quran, none.
There exist only two cases, in the quran, where a man can be punished by
his peers.
1. Proven to be a thief
2. Proven to be an adulterer(sse)..
Punishment of 1) is cutting the hand..The question is is it cutting or
cutting off? .., the arabic word says (aqta3u) aydihima, some think it is
not emputating...An other subject. Today's general belief is to emputate,
it's O.K..this is debatable by some islamic scholars, and there is a good
reason behind it.
2. 100 lashes in public to both..(case closed)..
and both are sent free as they were created.
The quran says KUL ITHM HARAM, every sin is forbidden.
Man has to use REASON in his daily life and his judgement (ex: what can
qualify to be a sin),
(We had sent this book to you in arabic, so you may use reason (li
ta3qalun)..
(Nous avons descendu ce livre en arabe pour que vous raisonniez..
(This book is complete, clear and fully detailed) (kitabun mubeen, wa lam
nufarit fihi shayan).
The muslim has two things to work wih
1. Quran
2. Reason
Both are given gifts by God, including all humans, we are his proprety.
God did not give us any other ways to punish the unlawful amongst us,
except the above.
And he specifically said (do not transgress my limits). It is very clear
that God did not forget to tell us to deprive one of his propreties from
their freedom and put them in jail, doing so is transgresing the limits
of God. One should not and cannot mess with God's private proprety
against his wishes.
{ any other form of punishment is transgressing the limits of God}, of
course a muslim cannot betray his family, otherwise the punishment is
death to any traitor (or may be disowned and expelled).
Humans are supposed to be FREE with human RIGHTS, and whoever put an
other in jail and deprives him/her from their God's given gift had
transgressed the limits of God. Mohamed never put anybody in jail, prison
system is un-islamic and unhumane. Men are supposed to be GOOD by
definition, and whoever becomes bad, he/she has to be guided,
rehabiliated by using reason and quran, that is ISLAM. One may asks what
trigger a human to become bad and evil, well..povrety may lead someone to
commit theft. Remedy: Eradicating povrety.
By definition a muslim cannot be poor and living amongst other muslims,
it is the obligation of a muslim to take care of his brother/sister (the
basic foundation of islam).a Muslim cannot be lazy either, no excuse for
povrety, and no excuse for ignorance and laziness amongst the muslims.
case 2: Someone maybe mentaly ill Remedy: Hospitalize him, cure
him/her..ect..(an other subject).
I wanna see ISLAM of REASON, islam of progres already exists, islam is
about progress, but they planted "la bombe de retardement", islamic
re-education, and islamic renaissance is very important taking in
consideration that REASON shall be used before any "religious" belief, as
the quran(the word of God) stresses it and mandate it. It is very clear
that "the bombe de retardement" was delibratly planted to satisfy some
power hungry transgressors, let it be for religious and/or financial
motif, it's all about P.O.C=Power-Oppression and Control, we are already
muslims, I think we are at best, if we learn to use what we already have
at its best.., democracy is necessary, but it is not suffissant and it is
not kuffr, that is the proper definition of the word democracy vis-a vis-
Islam. And whoever thinks islam is just a religion, he/she has to learn
yet.
PS: Les limites de Dieux sont deja Fixes', tout est ecrit dans le
Quran...Les etres humans font partie de sa creation, harming them in any
way without him authorizing it is transgressing his limits, and God never
forgets (quran).
Wa ssalam aalaykum.
Fodil
Fethi&Di
Perfect day for scrubbing the floor and other exciting things.
Rashid T <ras...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990625235843...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
: I wonder what my Father and mother were thinking about when they named me
: Rachid. They both are Kabyle.
: In the US I changed the spelling pronto when Rachid was pronouced ratchid.
: It was out of character. : ) lol
Path:
nntp.abs.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!
audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
From: ras...@aol.com (Rashid T)
Subject: Re: Saha
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
Date: 25 Jun 1999 16:22:33 GMT
References: <1988-37...@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Saha Canti.
Allah ibaric is the tie that binds us.
We shall feed les peres blancs for charity,
The poor bastards might marry, wholesome sex and experience real fatherhood.
The end of self crucifixion with shtitha batata bel flio.
Who said we are not charitable
______________________________
In your previous theme song&touches :
1. i happen to believe in islam,
2. member of the OS in 1950th with Yacef Saadi,
3. stick with les "enfants de chouhadas",
4. your parents are Kabyle,....
and now,
your new "allographs"
citing to your message in
news:19990625235843...@ng-ce1.aol.com...
and referencing to your John Hancock :
" Saha Canti.
Allah ibaric is the tie that binds us."
that racist "canti_ta"
that "hokum" and "drivel" ..... ,
contumelies,
as every Algerian in SCA knows what that racist wounding,
your parents,
race and
origin .....
see yourself
HOW "the other way around" YOU SHINE !!!!!!
I see the BotSrika and cie,
that's why Algeria is in the total decadence in 1999....
But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical
overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses
have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new
weaknesses.
Bruce Leverett, "Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers"
Rem(a)inder / rappel :
Algeria Democratic without Fraud or no dictator Algeria in Y2T.
sou...@hotmail.com
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > IIf Kader Ben Abdullah and John Smith apply for the same job, and
have
> > the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?
> >
>
> What if Yughurten Mackgrum and Omar Bendjerrah apply for the same
job, and
> have the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the
It all depends who owns the companie!
Guess who has the big Klawi in Algeria when it comes to business???
> Algeria...
>
> Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com
bmad...@aol.com (Bmadani52) wrote:
> <<If Kader Ben Abdullah and John Smith apply for the same job, and
have
> the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?>>
>
discrimination
> occurs? Why should we have to give our children Anglo names? The US
will get
> use to it, and before you know it there will be lots of Kader Smiths
and Fatima
> Jones and Karim Josephs.
>
It's a matter of practicality, succeding and getting ahead. Do you
really think orientals when change their name as soon as they get to
the US, and in most cases they barely speak english. The fatcs are out
there, and you know what I mean Mrs Madani...
sou...@hotmail.com
ras...@aol.com (Rashid T) wrote:
> >From: bmad...@aol.com
>
> >Muslim and Arab names have become quite acceptable. In fact, this
year's Baby
> >Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered to
be very
> >masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are
difficult
> >to
> >pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should
consider
> >that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have
to
> >change
> >the kinds of names you choose.
> >
named me
> Rachid.
Those were different times ya si Rachid.
Your parents wled El-Kasbah (Belda), margueen! Machi quima hna kavia
hbtna mdjebel lbareh u habina nbadlou el-assami taa "djdadna" Allah
yarhemhoum!
Inta l'hamdou Allah raak khradjtna drif u maanawi. Tamen b'love and
peace and Bouteflika...
Hna bekbek, mazelna nemnou b'Massinissa, Jugurtha, Matoub Lounes, Tahar
Djaout, Kated Yacine...etc. Haadou gaa kufar inchAllah ya harkhoum Rabi
fi naar, u yawassaa alikoum...:)
Fodil
Bmadani52 wrote:
I know that you are going to respond to this one and it is shocking. Then you
should blame God for creating such evil.., Rapists and serial killers should not
exist amongst the MUSLIMS, you find the solution..The solution does exist, and jail
is not an answer (that is totaly transgressing the limit of god), read my post
again, all of it and read the previos one, I already explained it.
My post are not contained in one sentence, please do not do that!, this sounds
absurde.
Are you O.K.?
Bmadani52
there, and you know what I mean Mrs Madani...>>
I know, but I don't accept them. We can be ourselves and still get accepted and
ahead if we show pride in who we are, and understand the difference between
pride and being a pain in the behind (arrogance). And Muslims and Arabs will be
accepted, just as other groups have in time. There will always be some
prejudice, but many will overcome it. And it's not done by trying to hide
behind Anglocized names and trying to deny one's heritage.
Bmadani52
you
should blame God for creating such evil.>>
God gave us free will. He is not our nanny.
<<., Rapists and serial killers should not
exist amongst the MUSLIMS>>
True, but they do because Muslims have free will, and we don't always follow
what we know is right, and some are confused as to what is right when they are
brainwashed with some twisted ideology.
>>, you find the solution..The solution does exist, and jail
is not an answer (that is totaly transgressing the limit of god), read my post
again, all of it and read the previos one, I already explained it.>>
I read your post, and I disagree. If jailing had been wrong, then slavery,
which was the way of imprisoning in the old days would have been wrong, and it
was not fully abolished.
We are not born free. That is an incorrect assumption. We are born into a
family, into a society. We are, therefore, responsible to that family and
society. No human infant can survive on its own, so to call it free is
ridiculous. Free are the reptiles that are born ready to go out and do their
thing without a mother's guidance. Human babies need years of care, nourishing,
loving, in order to grow up to be a sound human being physically, mentally, and
spiritually. We are social creatures. We belong to a group. Our rights are
within the limits of a group, and we must meet our responsibilities to accept
those rights.
We have every right in the world to kick out from our society one that goes
against that society. We can either set him aside to flounder on his own as
primitive societies use to do or we can confine him inside walls for the
protection of society.
sou...@hotmail.com
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > <<I am against the prison system, a human is created FREE, he
has to remain so,
> > no matter
> > what.
> > Taking away his freedom is violating HUDUD ALLAH.>>
> >
I have one solution for you. Take all the rapists, killers, child
molesters, psychos out there and put them in a mosque!
The healing will come rapidely, and can abolish all prisons and the
same time have more mosques!
Fodil YOU ARE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!
sou...@hotmail.com
ras...@aol.com (Rashid T) wrote:
> >From: bmad...@aol.com
>
> >Muslim and Arab names have become quite acceptable. In fact, this
year's Baby
> >Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered to
be very
> >masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are
difficult
> >to
> >pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should
consider
> >that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have
to
> >change
> >the kinds of names you choose.
> >
> I wonder what my Father and mother were thinking about when they
named me
> Rachid.
Those were the good old days ya si Rachid. Besides, your parent were
wlad lebled margueen (El-Kasbah), not like us Kavia hgir hbatna mdjebel
ou habina n'bedlu lawayed wa el assami? Kanu shadeene fi dinhoum ou fi
thakafa dialhoum. Hadda elkoum djedid ya latif!
Nahaw gaa Rachid, Hamid, Abdullah, Mohamed etc ou bdlouhoum b'
Massinissa, Jugurtha, Aghiles, Assales, Yeddir, Mokrane, Meziane etc..
Wash bihoum ya si Rachid? Hablou hada el-bekebk wella?
Allah yahdihoum ou yahdina kamline, ou nwaliw gaa l'taarik
l'moustakime, ou'votiw gaa ala sidna Bouteflika lli baathou rabi lina!
They both are Kabyle.
They were the "good Kabyles", the ones that feared Allah and Mohamed
and also went to Mecca on the back of a camel!
They use to listen to Chaabi, the voice of reason like El-Anka, El-hadj
M'rizek, Amar Ezzahi wama adraka! Now the Kabyles are "soufages", they
only listen to Ait Menguellat, Matoub, Imazighen Imoulla, Idir and all
the those revolutionary bekbek lli habtouna m'djbel...
Nowadays, the Kabyles are separatists, racists,Amazighists, anti-
Bouteflikists, etc.
> In the US I changed the spelling pronto when Rachid was pronouced
ratchid. It
> was out of character. : ) lol
> Rashid .
>
> Love and respect.
>
It took a lot of courage to do that Ya si Rashid to that! Barak Allahou
fik!
Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <3774753E...@earthlink.net>,
> Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > IIf Kader Ben Abdullah and John Smith apply for the same job, and
> have
> > > the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the job?
> > >
> >
> > What if Yughurten Mackgrum and Omar Bendjerrah apply for the same
> job, and
> > have the same qualifications, which one do you think will get the
> job?, in Algeria?
>
> It all depends who owns the companie!
> Guess who has the big Klawi in Algeria when it comes to business???
>
some by Beni M'zab, all big businesses are owned by arabophones. Small
business (mom & pop's) are owned by the kabyles of G.K., and it is
usually a family business. All the big contractors are arabic-speaking
algerians, do your research?. Usually, everything relating to
manufacturing, agriculture, production are done by "arabs", commerce is a
typical of a berberphone, a true fact.Ex: Go to Algeria, and try to find
out how many are mechanics?, percentagewise..
Kabyles, traditionally, are into theory, even scientists, either: Coputer
sciences(software development), Mathematics, phyiscs theory. You don't
find many into engineering, or manufacturing(you find some of
course)..I'm not kidding you..el-Qbayel taa la theorie mashi taa la
pratique.
Note: Shawia are "arabs", makash minha hadi shawi yahssab rouhou mashi
aarbi, hadi jamais srat.
fi domaine hadaya l'qbayel yakhardjou sahra..Let's not forget government
jobs, l'qbael taa tzenzigh(l'bii wa shra), they followed sira, sunna
Mohamed, an old tradition..Hadi kayna minha.
I wish that one may be able to find the correct statistics..
Li wasmu yughurtha tatahsha lu, in the long run..unless he is a true
oulid l'familia.
Fodil
> > Algeria...
> >
> > Fodil
sou...@hotmail.com
You are dead wrong, as usual! Most of the big wether be it in
Constantine, Saida, Oron, oil fields, you name it are Amazigh.
You knowledge of the Algerian economics is ridiculously nul!
If all Algerian Amazigh decide to go on strick for one, the whole
Algeria will be brought to a stand still (except a couple of pick
pockets, a couple of "sarjane" or Hamma Loulou will be running the
street!
As for the names...I won't comment on that, because the future is very
very grimm for banu Koreish and you know it!
bj...@scn.org
bmad...@aol.com (Bmadani52) wrote:
> If the US discriminates, then one needs to correct the US. But
> actually, some
> Muslim and Arab names have become quite acceptable. In fact, this
> year's Baby
> Book of Names lists "Kader" as the #1 name for a boy, considered
> to be very
> masculine. Fatima is also very acceptable. It's the names that are
> difficult to
> pronounce for Americans that will be less acceptable, and one should
> consider
> that problem if one lives here, but it doesn't mean you totally have
> to change
> the kinds of names you choose.
Hi Blanca, it's been a while.
How about Safia, is it listed in the Book of names?
Safia is the arab form of Blanca, and it's highly
rated in high plateau, just after Zoubida.
It's also considered a romantic name.
Haq Sidi Abdel-Aziz...
Taleb.
Fodil
You either believe in the following or you don't..
The Quran is clear, complete aand fully detailed! (quran)..
The punishments are given: a Wound for a Wound (Koran).
The thief, the adulter(sse)..
Slavery is not putting someone in prison, it means having someone working for you
for FREE, food only. The slaves are supposed to be well treated, and the Quran
urges us to FREE them, and whoever does has a good deed, this habit was abolished
in islam..Men had the right to use his own reason and freeing all slaves became
mandatory (doing good is an order)=freeing a slave=doing good..
I don't understand how you read the quran, the quran is not about maybe, if then go
to..Aminer does the same thing. THERE IS NO PRISON SYSTEM IN THE QURAN, and GOD DID
NOT FORGET TO MENTION IT, murderes, rapists..evil doers existed since ancient
times, God knows about them and he told us how to take care of them. (case closed),
and whoever does differntly is dispbeying God (trangressing limits)...
Besides that you can't compare and/or question why God allowed slavery, but he did
not order emprisonment. Slavery does not mean Jail?!!, God knows the word
PRISON=JAIL, he never mentioned it, so who are you to create such a thing?, did God
forget or he just made a mistake?..
Blanca, you cannot make up laws that suit your needs, all laws are written down,
prison is not part of it, God wants us to dispose and get rid off evil, but not
jail..what is this?, I don't understand..who came up with the prison system anyway,
and when did it start?, what era?, what did Mohamed do to the wrong-doers?...
Read my other post about the five tiles..
Muslims do not have free will, the only free will they have is in their religious
practices!?, what is this now?, you have to do GOOD and forbid evil..eradicating
evil before it happens is the duty of the muslim, you don't find the same crimes
amongst the muslims as amongst the americans, the muslims watch over and protect
each other, duty N0 1...
Fodil
Since your IMAZIGHEN are holding the algerian economy, why don't you ask
them to go on strike since ahgarna kum..I heard that your IMAZIGHEN built a
STATUTE for idole and/or ancestral worship, le TOMBEAUX wa l'GOUBBA qrib
tabnuha walla mazal..
Tadu qlawi bernaouilli, you'll get only what WE the BANU-KOREISH ALLOW you
so..
Soit twelli MAFIA ki l'khawa wa tahmel l'KARA walla taddi qalwet shaddi...
Fodil wa la MAFIA wa ma adraka, wa l'Familia kbira wa Allah ibarek.
sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
diasp...@my-deja.com
bj...@scn.org wro
> Hi Blanca, it's been a while.
>
> How about Safia, is it listed in the Book of names?
> Safia is the arab form of Blanca, and it's highly
> rated in high plateau, just after Zoubida.
> It's also considered a romantic name.
Ajaalek ahlal mabrouk!! Hahi ghiba twila ya wahed digourdi. Mani
t'throuhath?
Safia, Zoubida? Anta baldi antaa essah. Aaldjia is number 1 :)
Take care!
diaspora.
dz ithalli...dz assa...dz athacha...algeria forever.
Bmadani52
Safia is the arab form of Blanca, and it's highly
rated in high plateau, just after Zoubida.
It's also considered a romantic name.>>
Safia? That's beautiful! I'll have to ask my daughter. I gave her the book.
Khaled
>
> Blanca,
>
> You either believe in the following or you don't..
>
> The Quran is clear, complete aand fully detailed! (quran)..
What means "Qawlan thakila" ?
> The punishments are given: a Wound for a Wound (Koran).
Case study : Une femme "takhci" un homme ! Quel est le "Wound" Mr "qui
voit tout clair et complet" !
> The thief, the adulter(sse)..
> Slavery is not putting someone in prison, it means having someone working for you
> for FREE, food only. The slaves are supposed to be well treated, and the Quran
> urges us to FREE them, and whoever does has a good deed, this habit was abolished
> in islam..Men had the right to use his own reason and freeing all slaves became
> mandatory (doing good is an order)=freeing a slave=doing good..
"Mandatory" = ... (please in arabic words)
> I don't understand how you read the quran, the quran is not about maybe, if then go
> to..Aminer does the same thing. THERE IS NO PRISON SYSTEM IN THE QURAN, and GOD DID
> NOT FORGET TO MENTION IT, murderes, rapists..evil doers existed since ancient
> times, God knows about them and he told us how to take care of them. (case closed),
Case study : "Rapist" = guive the text wich say how to take care.
Acording to your logic (en majuscule) : There is No "Genie Genetique" in
the Quran,
and God did not forgot to mention it ! How we do now that it happen ?
> and whoever does differntly is dispbeying God (trangressing limits)...
"dispbeying God" (you mean "disobeying" i guess) = (trangressing limits)
?
Guive your proofs that there two sentence equate !
> Besides that you can't compare and/or question why God allowed slavery, but he did
> not order emprisonment. Slavery does not mean Jail?!!, God knows the word
> PRISON=JAIL, he never mentioned it, so who are you to create such a thing?,
According to you :
God knows the word "Internet", he never mentioned it, so who are you to
create
such a thing?
Ah ok !
May be the person who "create" it was not Muslim or from your Familia !
> Blanca, you cannot make up laws that suit your needs,
Proof, Proof, guive us proof for your assertion !
> all laws are written down,
Here you are just a "Menteur" without doubt.
Preuve : Il suffit d'UN seul contre exemple pour réfuter tes dires :
Il existe UNE LOI dans tous les pays qui ont des routes qui PUNIS
l'Exces
de vitesse en VOITURE, en AGLOMERATION.
> prison is not part of it, God wants us to dispose and get rid off evil, but not
> jail..what is this?, I don't understand..who came up with the prison system anyway,
> and when did it start?, what era?, what did Mohamed do to the wrong-doers?...
> Read my other post about the five tiles..
> Muslims do not have free will, the only free will they have is in their religious
> practices!?, what is this now?, you have to do GOOD and forbid evil..eradicating
> evil before it happens is the duty of the muslim, you don't find the same crimes
> amongst the muslims as amongst the americans, the muslims watch over and protect
> each other, duty N0 1...
Encore une fois tu es un menteur car des musulmans font des crimes.
Preuve : Je prends le Qur'an de Dieu comme preuve si cela ne te suffit
pas je te ramene d'autres d'un autre registre :
Dieu dans le Qur'an specifie des "chatiments" pour des "crimes" commis
par des "musulmans" et dis de les appliquer. Le prophete l'a fait sur
des musulmans.
Khaled
Ps: Ne le prends pas mal, mais je respectes ma parole c'est tout.
Bmadani52
I believe the Qur'an says the Qur'an is complete. Nothing about being fully
detailed. Am I wrong? Do you have a verse that says it is fully detailed? Being
complete and being fully detailed is two different things.
>>The punishments are given: a Wound for a Wound (Koran).
The thief, the adulter(sse)..>>
The punishment for a thief is 2 kinds. While the old punishment of cutting a
hand was acceptable, the Qur'an also says that renumeration can be accepted and
preferred. Same for murderers. However, for adulterers, it is lashes. 100 if a
free person, 50 if a slave, if I remember correctly.
>>Slavery is not putting someone in prison, it means having someone working for
you
for FREE, food only.>>
No. This is a modern meaning. In the old days, many slaves did get paid, and
some very well indeed. Slavery means and meant LOSS OF FREEDOM. You could get
money, but you could not choose to move around freely or work in something of
your own choosing.
Either way, Fodil, you've got to be pulling our legs. I cannot imagine that you
would really want to have free in the streets some murderers or rapists that
could possibly even hurt one of your own family members.
For myself, I say murderers should get the chair, and rapists should have their
masculinity chopped off. But since some people don't believe in this, I'm
willing to have them incarcerated, as long as they cannot get out and repeat
their crimes.
>>and whoever does differntly is dispbeying God (trangressing limits)...
Besides that you can't compare and/or question why God allowed slavery, but he
did
not order emprisonment.>>
Of course I can. I can do anything I want. That's what I have a brain for. God
didn't mention imprisonment because it wasn't done at the time and would have
meant nothing at all to those who were receiving the message.
>> he never mentioned it, so who are you to create such a thing?, did God
forget or he just made a mistake?..>>
Nope. He gaves us brains to come up with new ways of doing things, and that's
what we're doing.
>> I don't understand..who came up with the prison system anyway,
and when did it start?, what era?>>
The British. Back during medieval times. Called Newgate. <I'm kidding. I have
no idea.>
>>what did Mohamed do to the wrong-doers?...>>
Depends. Some killed. Some paid. Some enslaved. According to the hadiths.
>>Read my other post about the five tiles..
Muslims do not have free will, the only free will they have is in their
religious
practices!?, what is this now?,>>
Since when?
>> you have to do GOOD and forbid evil..eradicating
evil before it happens is the duty of the muslim, you don't find the same
crimes
amongst the muslims as amongst the americans, the muslims watch over and
protect
each other, duty N0 1.>>
Now I know you're kidding!!!!
Khaled
>[SNIP]
> Safia, Zoubida? Anta baldi antaa essah. Aaldjia is number 1 :)
Et Khrufa ? En quelle position ? :))
sou...@hotmail.com
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ya Abu-lahabi, Miss Hubel
>
> Since your IMAZIGHEN are holding the algerian economy, why don't you
ask
> them to go on strike since ahgarna kum..
say, they have crolling, and the cultural cleansing will be reversed ,
jut like in Kosovo, and tnaket alik wa ala gaa les integristes
general!!!
I heard that your IMAZIGHEN built a
> STATUTE for idole and/or ancestral worship, le TOMBEAUX wa l'GOUBBA
qrib
> tabnuha walla mazal..
i preffer people that worship people that existed and done things to
them, rather the ones that worship something that they never seen!
>
> Tadu qlawi bernaouilli, you'll get only what WE the BANU-KOREISH
ALLOW you
> so..
keep dreaming Milo, you are scared shitless of the future!
> Soit twelli MAFIA ki l'khawa wa tahmel l'KARA walla taddi qalwet
shaddi...
>
In every religious person, a dormant fundamentalist...
> Fodil wa la MAFIA wa ma adraka, wa l'Familia kbira wa Allah ibarek.
>
>
Perhaps daar kbira, i don't know about Familia..
Abu-Koreish,
Mark my words, i'll come a day with this mentality, you'll become
stranger than a foreigner in Algeria.
Takhroudj sahra period. meme t'quenbiia taak 5 times a day, you will be
doing in basemant and in dark, for fear of humiliation and ridicule!
L'familia we believe in, is a familia of RESPECT, not the one of lies,
tmenyek, l'hoggra, l'kwada, t'heene, and science fiction!
Fodil
you label everybody of being a traditionalist islamist, this habit came
from your people, in our family religious practices are a personal
matter..but OULED l'FAMILIA l'dem!, and 3ibadat l'asnam , ancestral worship
and idole worshiping is not one of them..FAQU!, hna mashi taa
dourous..hadak waqt boubi..
You wish that islam stay the way as just a religion of the fanatics and the
elderly.. The religious practices are left to the individual, but his hers
pact with the FAMILIA is mandatory..
MAFIA that is , that i sthe word, the word is MAFIA-FAMILIA spread it..
Faqu!..I am going back next year...what is the word again..M.A.F.I.A.
Musulman Algerien dune/pour Famille Islamique Algerienne= La FAMILIA!, what
is it again?..
MAFIA, the word is , lkalma hia L'FAMILLIA, waz3uha ya l'khawa!, H'na
l'khawa mashi el-ikhwan, wa illa habu el-ikhwan idju maana lazam iwallu ki
l'KHAWA!, got iy now..
The speech is coming tonight.
Hemella hakda tanhunna l'islam min l'bled!?, tuttuuuuuuuuuuu!
Famillia..
Fodil
You are Nuts!, and blanca thinks the quran was written for a specific
era, and because of this or that reason..!!?
Rapist:
Get the girl that was raped, and she has the right to condemn him or
forgive him.
If she says do, which is more likely, then cut his balls off and give
them to a dog. Prevent him from spreading evil again..,
a Murderer: Must be disposed off immediatly, unless an immediate member
of the family forgives him..(quranic).
In a well balanced stable society, crimes shall not occur. Remember that
in an islamic society, we are talking about the extended family. The
algerians are already muslims, the quran gives us all the freedom we
want, all !!, no restrictions!!..Only what it is stated!, and nobody
shall punish an other for not practicing , that is the idea..
No one is FREE when some are still in PRISON!,
what about the ones that have different views?, they got jailed for just
thinking differently?..
Islamic values will prevent evil from happening..it is a well known
fact (in a peaceful society)..
The victim shall punish the criminal, and it not up to someone else's.
Of course, he/she has to be proven guilty first...
Islam was supposed to make our lives simpler and not more complex!, they
changed everything..
Islam is not only about praying at the mosque or religious ritulas, this
an old traditionalist thinking(radj3i), nobody should care if you pray
or not!..(that is btwn you & God)
In this case, it is a personal matter and the QURAN is very clear about
that...
Who gives a right to any human to put an other human in jail, and
deprive him from the most valuable thing that God has ever given. God
ordered us what to do with evil, dispose of it, trash is just that,
trash!..La Poubelle..Clean the society from all evil.
Hey!, soucha, the word is MAFIA, spread the word, you'll get tamazight,
it ain't MAFIA for nothing: again: MAFIA= Musulman Algerie(ne)
d'une/pour Famille Islamique Algerienne.
It's not the same one as in sicilly, this one is about Well Organized
Good Deed..
Maybe we should call ot WOGD..or MDAID=Muslim Djazairi min'wali Aila
Islamia Djazaira..
Wash habit ikun, bessah shouf takhti l'famillia a3dhamek yatartgu, hada
shi bayen, wa nass kamel aala bal'ha bih. Tnirvini dorka naqlbuha
MDAID!, b' l'WOGD w' l'MDAID
Soucha you think you are free, you are not!...Believe me you are
under control!
Fodil--
sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <37760280...@earthlink.net>,
> Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > <<I am against the prison system, a human is created FREE, he
> has to remain so,
> > > no matter
> > > what.
> > > Taking away his freedom is violating HUDUD ALLAH.>>
> > >
>
> I have one solution for you. Take all the rapists, killers, child
> molesters, psychos out there and put them in a mosque!
> The healing will come rapidely, and can abolish all prisons and the
> same time have more mosques!
>
> Fodil YOU ARE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> >
>
sou...@hotmail.com
Your familia is somewhere between Yamen Saudi-Arabia and Iran as
inlaws..
Fodil
I told you a long time ago: KUTIBA wa kutiba, wa mazalhum yakatbu!..
Kutiba= kulshi b' l'maktoub wa bella rebbek(maa aalish nsseb puisk anta
rebbek hubel(statue) wa ma tamanesh b' rebbi ,ghir khrat aalikum.
Since when "ya rebkum" being a Musulman became a personal matter. Ya
l'hmar!, dabun!..
"Etre pratiquant" ou "pas pratiquant" has always been a personal matter. To
practice or not to practice, that is personnal, not being Musulman!, Qalu
ibdel wa idiclari belli mashi musulman, qalu khlass batalna!..Shoof mashi
ghir a3dhamek yatartug, qlawik igat3uhum lkum wa ya3tuhum lek takel hum ya
l'kawed!, kass-kroot a la coucass, l'bareh qal lek coucass wa lyuma qal lek
khlass battalna, win zedt ya wahd zerdi. Win aqrit'ha haddi belli aandek
l'qanun wa t'qul khlass batalana!, h'na raku khritu fiha taa ssah, bon
l'halouf ma qulna lkum walou, shrab qulna lkum mashi h'ram wa yadjouz!, wa
dorka qlabtuha meme l'islam makash miha, ya ziri3a l'masswassa c'est
l'identite' princpale Algerienne. I.A.P..Wash bik hakmetek karshek, dharek
l'hlilif?,yak qultlek "wash it down..".
Dorka gaa khanguet kum rodjla, ihemalla smana Chretien, smana l'djaya
budda, wa dorka na3abdu la statue taa Maatoub, hubelist!..Astanna ya
rebbek, smana l'djaya nwelli..rani mazalni maa l'film..wa nwerri lkum
washnu hadi taa tbdel l'islam shghul tbdel qmadja maa sbah..
Anaya thani rani n'khamem aaliha! wa qila naqlb'ha Hari-Crushna!..tiens,
ghadwa nrouh na3tiha bola a zero!..Bessah meme nwelli Hari Krushna nabqa
MUSULMAN aala kahtesh fi dem, ya l'jahil..I was made already, a pact of
solidarity between all algerians, it is a family principle.
Smana l'djaya nwelli...Take care for now!..
Fodil
so
Bmadani52
era, and because of this or that reason..!!?>>
No, you are misunderstanding my words. The Qur'an was written for all time. But
it was written in the context of a particular time. There is a great
difference. While the Qur'an teaches values that will last forever, the
specifics of the terminology used was so it would be understood by those
receiving the message at the time.
>> Rapist:
Get the girl that was raped, and she has the right to condemn him or
forgive him.
If she says do, which is more likely, then cut his balls off and give
them to a dog. Prevent him from spreading evil again..,>>
Where is this written or is this your idea? And if it's the "law," how come
instead women have been killed or shunned for centuries when they have been
raped?
Khaled
I agree with you totally specifically if you use the "mustalaH"
"Qur'an".
> But it was written in the context of a particular time. There is a great
> difference.
Yes there is a difference. But i do not agree (for the same "Qur'an").
> While the Qur'an teaches values that will last forever, the
> specifics of the terminology used was so it would be understood by those
> receiving the message at the time.
Yes for some part no for others. contre example : al-muqata3at !
It seems to me that you have an interesting idea about the question wich
look differnet than mine. Maybe wi'll get time to discuss more deaper.
Salaam
Khaled
sou...@hotmail.com
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Soucha,
> You are Nuts!, and blanca thinks the quran was written for a specific
> era, and because of this or that reason..!!?
>
unless your blind and stupid. Do you remenber the "Snow" question to
name a few?
> Rapist:
> Get the girl that was raped, and she has the right to condemn him or
> forgive him.
You are such a damn ass, it takes un Zarabe to write such stupidy!
A teenage girl will be the judge? Is this a jungle? is that your
religion thought you?
> If she says do, which is more likely, then cut his balls off and give
> them to a dog. Prevent him from spreading evil again..,
>
> a Murderer: Must be disposed off immediatly, unless an immediate
member
> of the family forgives him..(quranic).
Who is determine, if was premiditated or an accident? Your prouved my
point, you guys are primitive savages!
> In a well balanced stable society, crimes shall not occur.
Hello? Anybody home? A perfect worlfd doesn't exist, and will NEVER
exist! Even in Disney, they are accidents ya l'bahloul!
Remember that
> in an islamic society, we are talking about the extended family. The
> algerians are already muslims, the quran gives us all the freedom we
> want, all !!,
It gives you shkoupi!
no restrictions!!..Only what it is stated!, and nobody
> shall punish an other for not practicing , that is the idea..
> No one is FREE when some are still in PRISON!,
> what about the ones that have different views?, they got jailed for
just
> thinking differently?..
> Islamic values will prevent evil from happening..it is a well known
> fact (in a peaceful society)..
How old are you 13? I know teenagers that reason better than that!
> The victim shall punish the criminal, and it not up to someone else's.
> Of course, he/she has to be proven guilty first...
> Islam was supposed to make our lives simpler and not more complex!,
they
> changed everything..
> Islam is not only about praying at the mosque or religious ritulas,
this
> an old traditionalist thinking(radj3i), nobody should care if you pray
> or not!..(that is btwn you & God)
> In this case, it is a personal matter and the QURAN is very clear
about
> that...
> Who gives a right to any human to put an other human in jail, and
> deprive him from the most valuable thing that God has ever given. God
> ordered us what to do with evil, dispose of it, trash is just that,
> trash!..La Poubelle..Clean the society from all evil.
> Hey!, soucha, the word is MAFIA, spread the word, you'll get
tamazight,
> it ain't MAFIA for nothing: again: MAFIA= Musulman Algerie(ne)
> d'une/pour Famille Islamique Algerienne.
> It's not the same one as in sicilly, this one is about Well
Organized
> Good Deed..
I need to send to Algeria to get you "el-khamsa", I thin l'adjnoun
hablouk ya el boudjadi!
> Maybe we should call ot WOGD..or MDAID=Muslim Djazairi min'wali Aila
> Islamia Djazaira..
> Wash habit ikun, bessah shouf takhti l'famillia a3dhamek yatartgu,
hada
> shi bayen, wa nass kamel aala bal'ha bih. Tnirvini dorka naqlbuha
> MDAID!, b' l'WOGD w' l'MDAID
> Soucha you think you are free, you are not!...Believe me you are
> under control!
Believ me I'm in control of my destinty, no problems with the IRS,
Police dept or Sidi Zekri...
> Fodil--
>
> sou...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > In article <37760280...@earthlink.net>,
> > Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > <<I am against the prison system, a human is created FREE, he
> > has to remain so,
> > > > no matter
> > > > what.
> > > > Taking away his freedom is violating HUDUD ALLAH.>>
> > > >
> >
> > I have one solution for you. Take all the rapists, killers, child
> > molesters, psychos out there and put them in a mosque!
> > The healing will come rapidely, and can abolish all prisons and the
> > same time have more mosques!
> >
> > Fodil YOU ARE NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > >
> >
Bmadani52
look differnet than mine. Maybe wi'll get time to discuss more deaper.>>
Next week. I'm going to Boston to the Algerian-American conference for 5 days.
No computer access :)
Khaled
OK.
Good job and courage.
Fodil
You are a typical mghandef with no reasoning at all.
Th teen-age girl cannot be the judge,ya l'hmar..,the victim cannot be the
judge
Rapist: Alreday been proven guilty in court of law.
Sentence: Cutt them off
Victim: if mature, not a teen-ager, she has the right to FORGIVE.
If teen-ager, the PARENTS shall decide on his fate(forgivenes or execution).
Case closed, an islamic society is based on EXTENDED FAMILY ya l'hawayen..
Soucha you must be very ignorant or your educatinal level is COURS-FIN.
Ya l'hmar, the victim does not JUDGE..The JUDGES do exist, the sentence is
already written down, the victim has the right to forgive....
There'll be acourt TRIAL, witnesses are needed!..I told you memorized the
quran the old fashioned ki dab..
If the victim is teen, the parents got involved......FAMILY in FAMILY, that
is ISLAM..
Immediate family-next in family---extended Family ..
Do you get it now.
You are the savage, you just do not understand the meaning of it!..You grow
a BARBAR thinking of ancestral worshipo, I group in a FAMILY within a
FAMILY, the victim has the right to forgive, because we believe that people
do REPENT, ya sauvage..
and you call yourself a stable keeper, find yourself a place,or clean their
droppings.
Bmadani52
There was no such thing as a teenager during the Prophet's time. It would have
to be "minor." What's a mature woman? Pass menopause?
sad...@my-deja.com
to death penalty. A human is born free and if a religion build borders
to keep his his mouth shut, even if islam, then it is not true.
The interpretation of the dictators based on the use of islam in
the way they want to keep the power by playing on sensible fibers,
a religion. There is no such thing that being muslim means shut your
mouth.
Another important thing, A human is born FREE, LIBRE, and by being
an adult has legitimate right GIVEN by GOD to choose his religion.
So, the interpretation given by the arab's milosevics is only for
one purpose, SCARING people.
In article <377440C7...@earthlink.net>,
Fodil <arkin...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I have no problem what he said..
> I don't care if he was a jew or a buddist and even a barbarian, I am
just
> asking a question.
> But the following is true:
> Once you become muslim, you cannot quit, if you do you may be killed
and/or
> disowned.., and I am just informing you..
> I think I made myself clear, nobody is asking anybody to become a
muslim,
> but you just cannot renounce your islamite' once in, you became a
traitor,
> and the penalty for the traitor is absolute DEATH..It is possible that
he
> was killed by an islamist, and in his religion he is ordered of doing
> so..Got it!..
> If you live amongst muslims, never speak against their belief, you
must be a
> fool for doing so, you should know it if you are a muslim, if not, I
am just
> advising you...Never tell an islamist that you are no longer a
muslim(if you
> ever were), and you pie on their koran, they'll take your life...(I am
not
> kiding you, nor threatning you, but just a simple advice).
>
> Fodil
> sad...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Atsarvah l'djayer????
> >
> > Decidement, je n'arrive pas a comprendre ces personnes qui
> > traitent une personne decedee de tout les noms.
> > La LIBERTE d'EXPRESSION inclu la liberte de critiques, y compris
> > la critique de la religion et ainsi que celle de croire ou non
> > en dieu. Si Matoub a dit qu'il n'est pas arabe (ce qui est vrai)
> > et non musulman ( c'est son droit legitime), ou est votre
probleme???
> > A vous lire, je comprend pourquoi les integristes n'ont pas
> > de problemes pour recruter des assassins.
> >
> > I
Reda
>Another important thing, A human is born FREE, LIBRE, and by being
>an adult has legitimate right GIVEN by GOD to choose his religion.
>
>So, the interpretation given by the arab's milosevics is only for
>one purpose, SCARING people.
>
Let's refine the definition of FREEDOM :
Freedom is viable as long it does not interfere with other's freedom!
"A3teni 7oreyati atloko yadaya"
>
Fodil
Ya Miss lahram,
How do you know this?, you said that you did not grow up believing in islam.
I never said that criticizing islam is a blasphemy. I said once muslim and
you renounce it, you become a trator. I never heard that trators are
welcomed amongst the algerians, never were and never will be. You can
criticize all you want, constructive criticism that is, not insulting.. and
bashing..
Fodil
sad...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7le1e6$qbb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>It is written nowhere that criticizing any religion will lead
>to death penalty. A human is born free and if a religion build borders
>to keep his his mouth shut, even if islam, then it is not true.
>The interpretation of the dictators based on the use of islam in
>the way they want to keep the power by playing on sensible fibers,
>a religion. There is no such thing that being muslim means shut your
>mouth.
>Another important thing, A human is born FREE, LIBRE, and by being
>an adult has legitimate right GIVEN by GOD to choose his religion.
>
>So, the interpretation given by the arab's milosevics is only for
>one purpose, SCARING people.
>
>
>
eddie benali
>
> Ya Miss lahram,
>
> How do you know this?, you said that you did not grow up believing in islam.
> I never said that criticizing islam is a blasphemy. I said once muslim and
> you renounce it, you become a trator. I never heard that trators are
> welcomed amongst the algerians, never were and never will be. You can
> criticize all you want, constructive criticism that is, not insulting.. and
> bashing..
> Fodil
Et pourtant.... many algerians are traitors to their real identity.
MB