Negro was navigator of a Columbus Ship/Santa Maria
M.McGill
http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1995. ISBN 0-671-79524-4. Cost $35.00.
A good supplement to add to your library for a more well rounded view of
history is this chronological timetable of important events and people in
African American history. The table is broken down into the following
columns: general history, education, laws & legal actions, religion,
literature & publications, arts, science ,technology & medicine and
sports. Being a table the information is not very indepth but does provide
a place to start research. The table starts with 1492 when Pedro Alonzo
Nino navigated the Santa Maria and continues on up to the 1990s. It's easy
to use and provides additional information on any time period of American
history you happen to be covering in class. I would recommend it for 6th
grade and up.
-------------------------------------
http://www.msstate.edu/listarchives/afrigeneas/199707/msg00582.html
TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
HARLEY PHD.
1492
Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives with
the explorer Christopher Columbus.
For information about this page, contact owner-af...@msstate.edu.
For information about Mississippi State University, contact
msu...@ur.msstate.edu.
---------------------------------------------
http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/aapoet/timeline1.html
1492-1565 Africans accompanied explorers on expeditions to the "New"
World; for example, Pedro Alonzo Nino navigated for Columbus in 1492 and
Nuflo de Olano and 29 other Africans accompanied Balboa in the crossing of
Panama. Others accompanied Desoto (1539) and Coronado (1540).
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.unityint.org/aahistory.htm
In 1492, A black man named Pedro Alonzo Niño, sailed on Christopher
Columbus¹s ship on the first Spanish voyage to the new world. Sailors of
African ancestry are members of all the major Spanish expeditions to the
Americas, including Balboa, Ponce de León, Cortés, Pizarro, and Menéndez.
Verner Roentgen
I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get a good chuckle out
of them.
M.McGill wrote in message ...
M.McGill
<x...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I got to tell ya, these afrocentrist fairy tales have gotton so rediculous
> I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get a good chuckle out
> of them.
FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is
substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has
the
following form:
1.X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed
at the claim).
2.Therefore claim C is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
1."Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but
that is just laughable."
2."Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks!
Hah! Hah!"
3."Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key
to peace!"
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not
show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following
example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use
of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can
make it reasonable to reject the claim.
Verner Roentgen
dilusions. The excessive need for constant reassurance. Usually a result
of low selfesteem and low self worth. This pretty much sums it up for the
entire nigger species and McGrilla, you are the poster boy for nigga
narcissism.
IMJ
rediculous I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get a good
chuckle out of them."
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
[IMJ]
Good, Eva keep laughing it'll ease the pain, afterall ignorance is
bliss!
M.McGill
<x...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Narcissism: Excessive admiration of one's self. Having grandiose
> dilusions. The excessive need for constant reassurance. Usually a result
> of low selfesteem and low self worth. This pretty much sums it up for the
> entire nigger species and McGrilla, you are the poster boy for nigga
> narcissism.
And what do you call attacking another race or group of people all the time?
Ego-defense: a psychological mechanism designed consciously or
unconsciously to protect one's self-image or self-esteem. You, FatElvis,
God Almighty (Now there is a Narcissist name), Big Don, White, etc...are
the poster boy team for Ad Hominem, Fallacy Of Ridicule and Ego-defense.
You guys win the triple crown award hands down.
>
> M.McGill wrote in message ...
> >In article <xyK%3.11837$5q.9...@news3.mia>, "Verner Roentgen"
> ><x...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I got to tell ya, these afrocentrist fairy tales have gotton so
> rediculous
> >> I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get a good chuckle
> out
> >> of them.
> >
fac...@my-deja.com
So what? Whites and asians have demonstrated over and over agian that they
are capable of training negroes to do quite difficult tasks. Not so long
ago, after billions of dollars, we showed the world how it was possible to
put a negro into space and bring him down again (we did the same with
chimpanzees). ... and bye the way please don't tell me that negroes from Mali
landed on the moon in 1492; (best leave that to Van Sertima in his next
"academic publication", OK?)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
M.McGill
> are capable of training negroes to do quite difficult tasks.<snip>
And blacks from Africa (Moors) and India proved capable of training
whites to understand the concept of zero and inoculation cure for small pox:
Numerical Computing would be impossible without the Hindu concept of
zero which was taught to Europeans during the Moorish conquest and 700
year rule of Spain. The mathmatical concept of zero traces back to the
Malabar Coast of Southwest India whose people are black like Somalians
and Ethiopians.
For centuries, European scholars did not understand the usefullness of
having zero. Their common argument is that you cannot eat "no sheep." In
his poem on "Numerology," Buckminster Fuller wrote:
The introduction into Europe
Of the computational significance of the cypher
Was an epoch-initiating event
For it made it possible for anybody to calculate
And this was the moment in which
For the first time
The Copernicuses and Tycho Brahes,
The Galileos and Newtons,
The Keplers and Leonardos
Had computational ability
This broke asunder the Dark Ages
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi518.htm
SLAVES AND SMALLPOX
by John H. Lienhard
(Theme music)
Today, African servants teach medicine to Colonial America. The
University of Houston's College of Engineering presents this series
about the machines that make our civilization run, and the people whose
ingenuity created them.
We know Cotton Mather as a famous preacher in Colonial Boston. We hear
much less about his interest in science and medicine. Yet he pressed the
case for smallpox inoculation long before 19th-century science
understood it...
He'd seen it first hand in his African servant. The man showed Mather
his smallpox scar and told him that you
... take the Juice of the Small Pox, and Cut the Skin and put in a drop:
then by 'nd by a little Sick, then a few Small Pox; and no body dye of
it; no body have Small Pox any more.
In 1721 we knew people who had used inoculation for a long, long time.
We learned it from African slaves -- from a far more advanced people
than we thought. We learned it from an old civilization that we still
know too little about, even today.
I'm John Lienhard, at the University of Houston, where we're interested
in the way inventive minds work.
(Theme music)
Rudolph, R. and Musher, D.M., Inoculation in the Boston Smallpox
Epidemic of 1721. Archives of Internal Medicine, Vol. 115, June 1965,
pp. 692-696.
Mather also read European accounts of inoculation, but only after he'd
learned of it from his servant. It seems that personal experience with
inoculated Africans was the most powerful driver of Mather's enthusiasm.
Mather acquired the servant four years after his children had barely
survived smallpox. The servant's name was Onesimus.
----------------------------------
African Negroes in the West African Kingdom of Songhay trained and
taught whites in Timbuktu.
http://www.xula.edu/~jrotondo/Kingdoms/Songhay/Askiyas01.htm
http://asu.alasu.edu/academic/advstudies/1d.html
5. Songhay: the tomb of the askias
That the Songhay askiyas were able to build a professional bureaucracy
which functioned solidly for almost a century (from the accession of
Muhammad Turé in 1493 to the Moroccan conquest of 1591) is a testament
to their organizational skills and considerable personal power. Indeed,
their efforts surpass those of the Frankish king Charlemagne, whose
attempts to develop a complex administrative system seven centuries
earlier in medieval Europe met with no lasting success. After Mali lost
its power Songhay was there to assume its role as the last of the "
Great Three " ancient West African empires. The Kingdom of Askia
Mohammed's kingdom covered most of West Africa and was greater than all of
the European states combined. Songhay was significant during the 15th
and 16th centuries. The people of Songhay were highly intelligent,
industrious, and aggressively invincible both as traders and warriors.
Under the leadership of Askia Mohammed, Timbuktu became a prosperous
commercial city of 100,000 people, where trader came from Asia the
Middle - East and Europe to exchange there exotic merchandise for the
gold of Songhay. Timbuktu was an intellectual center unrivaled at this
time to any other such center in the world. Young people from the Moslem
world came to Timbuktu's world famous University of Sankore to study Law
and Medicine. Even medieval Europe sent its best scholars to the
University of Sankore just to see the excellent libraries with
manuscripts in Aribic and to cosult with the learned mathmeticians,
astronomers, physicians, and jurists whose intellectual endeavors were
paid for out of the king's own treasury.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> > > America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives
> > > with the explorer Christopher Columbus.
> > >
And who is Pedro Alonzo Nino ? The Christobal Colon voyages from
Spain are well documented. There was the Pinzón brothers who were
Castilians (white).
> From the Encyclopedia Britannica:
> Quote Martín Alonso Pinzón, and Vicente Yáñez Pinzón.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
>
> > In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer
to
> > America:
> > >
> > > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> > >
Sir, i went to the link above and it had Native American
information and other information, please direct us to your source on
this particular link..it appears not to be as you say. Thank you in
advance.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
America:
>
> TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> HARLEY PHD.
>
>
Sir, Sharon Harley Phd, does not give her sources.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
America:
>
>
Sir, the person you are referencing is Unknown to the Staff at
wmc.edu...shown on her web page she created (which you are touting as
truth.). her name is Amy Peterson who " created " this bibliography as a
student in LIB 464 during the summer of 1997. Her email address is
currently unknown.
The person with a name near what she writes comes from solid
sources, one is the Encyclopedia Britannica: Quote Martín Alonso Pinzón,
and Vicente Yáñez Pinzón and they are in fact white (Castilian).
The White Devil
ROTFLMAO!!!!
WD
In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
America:
>
> http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
>
> Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New York:
> Simon & Schuster, 1995. ISBN 0-671-79524-4. Cost $35.00.
>
> A good supplement to add to your library for a more well rounded view
of
> history is this chronological timetable of important events and
people in
> African American history. The table is broken down into the following
> columns: general history, education, laws & legal actions, religion,
> literature & publications, arts, science ,technology & medicine and
> sports. Being a table the information is not very indepth but does
provide
> a place to start research. The table starts with 1492 when Pedro
Alonzo
> Nino navigated the Santa Maria and continues on up to the 1990s. It's
easy
> to use and provides additional information on any time period of
American
> history you happen to be covering in class. I would recommend it for
6th
> grade and up.
> -------------------------------------
> http://www.msstate.edu/listarchives/afrigeneas/199707/msg00582.html
>
> TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> HARLEY PHD.
>
> 1492
>
> Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives with
> the explorer Christopher Columbus.
>
> For information about this page, contact owner-
> For information about Mississippi State University, contact
> msu...@ur.msstate.edu.
> ---------------------------------------------
> http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/aapoet/timeline1.html
>
> 1492-1565 Africans accompanied explorers on expeditions to the "New"
> World; for example, Pedro Alonzo Nino navigated for Columbus in 1492
and
> Nuflo de Olano and 29 other Africans accompanied Balboa in the
crossing of
> Panama. Others accompanied Desoto (1539) and Coronado (1540).
> -----------------------------------------------
> http://www.unityint.org/aahistory.htm
>
> In 1492, A black man named Pedro Alonzo Niño, sailed on Christopher
> Columbus¹s ship on the first Spanish voyage to the new world.
Sailors of
> African ancestry are members of all the major Spanish expeditions to
the
> Americas, including Balboa, Ponce de León, Cortés, Pizarro, and
Menéndez.
>
The White Devil
j_2000 Los Americanos http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm
> And blacks from Africa (Moors)
The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are closely
realated to the Basques according to an article last year in GeoMundo
from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to the Jews as they came
from the same ancester the biblical Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees.
Chaldea was in what today is Iraq and they are not negroid but semitic.
Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by Mediterranean
type people same as Southern Europeans.
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm" <1stb...@neta.com> wrote:
> "M.McGill" wrote:
> >
> > In article <825q1t$5fs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, fac...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > And blacks from Africa (Moors)
>
> The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
> Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are closely
> realated to the Basques according to an article last year in GeoMundo
> from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to the Jews as they came
> from the same ancester the biblical Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees.
> Chaldea was in what today is Iraq and they are not negroid but semitic.
>
> Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by Mediterranean
> type people same as Southern Europeans.
>
> j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
The second Moorish group to conquer Spain was the Abassid Dynasty who
took control in 756 only to to be taken over by the
Umayyad Dynasty years later. In 1086 Africans from West Africa from the
regions of Ghana, Senegal, Mali and Songhay, took control of Spain. They
were known as the Almoravid Dynasty, the third Moorish Dynasty to rule
Spain. The leader of the Almoravids whose name means Champion of the
Faith or religious men, was Yusef ibn Tashinfin. Yusef is described as
"dark" and "wooly-haired", and was probably born in Nigeria. Most of the
soldiers who accompanied Yusef were described as Senegalese, "jet black
and of unmixed descent" (Chinyelu:373). The Almoravids, under the
command of Yusef conquered Morocco and Algeria and is said to have
founded the city of Marrakech. The Almoravid empire ran from the Senegal
River in West Africa to the Ebro River in Spain. Yusef ruled Spain and
parts of Africa, Niger, Nigeria and Senegal simultaneously until his
death in 1106 (175).
Some historians describe the Moors "as a small black people, burned by
the sun, full of wit and fire, always in love, writing verses, fond of
music, arranging festivals, dances and tournaments everyday". Sometimes
their color is described as "copper-black", "as black as tar". The
Almoravids are described exclusively as mid-night black, the color of
the people from the land in which they came.
B. Math/Science/Technology
The most advanced mathematicians, scientists and, medical doctors came
from North and West Africa to Spain. The period of technological and
scientific advancements in Europe known as "the Renaissance" was in part
a direct result of Africa's gift of knowledge (Lumpkin and Zitler :383).
The Arabic numerals (0, 1, 2. etc.) which we use today, were adapted
from India and brought into Europe by the Moors of Africa. Some other
technological advantages the Moors brought to Spain are:
algebra gunpowder
zero sewers
water wheels for irrigation
chess adobe
atlas glazed tiles
alcohol paper/papermaking
windmills
One of the navigator's on Columbus' first voyage to America to America
was a black man named Pedro Alonzo Nino (Smithsonian Institute:5) .
Another example of blacks in the exploration of America is the story of
Azemmouri, also known as Esteban the Moor, or Estevanico. Esteban was
born in Morocco and accompanied Spanish explorers like Cabeza de Vaca
and Niza in their exploration of the American southwest between 1527
and 1539. In spite of locating the legendary "seven cities of gold" of
the Zunis Indians of New Mexico among other achievements, his name is
rarely mentioned in history books. Black men like Nino and Esteban were
called los moros latinizados "latinized Moors"; Moors who had been
christianized and adopted Christian ways. They were also known as los
negros conquistadores "conquering blacks" because of the important role
they played in the exploration and conquest of America.
------------------------------------------------------------
"the Moors of Granada; a small, dark people, burned by the sun, full of
wit and fire"-Quote from Bernard de Fontanelle in 1686.(page 619 _The
Physical Universe_ by Konrad B. Kravskopt and Arthur Beiser 6th edition 1991).
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/cidcm/mar/rimblm.htm
Anne Pitsch (114)
6/5/95
Black Moors in Mauritania
Total Population: 2,335,000
Ethnic Groups:
White Moors 30%
Black Moors 35%
Kewri 35%
(All population figures are estimates for 1995)
Religion: Islam (100%) Languages: Hassinya, French, Soninke, Pulaar, Wolof)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://tradecompass.com/library/dos/bnotes/MAURITAN.html
U.S. Department of State
Background Notes: Mauritania, July 1995
Bureau of Public Affairs
People
Nationality: Noun and adjective--Mauritanian(s).
Population (1995): 2.3 million.
Annual growth rate: 2.9%.
Ethnic groups: Arab-Berber, Arab-Berber-Negroid, Pulaar, Soninke,
---------------------------------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
MAURITANIA
PEOPLE:
Nationality: Noun and adjective- Mauritanian(s).
Population (1990 est.): 2 million. Annual growth rate: 2.9%.
Ethnic groups: Arab-Berber, Arab-Berber-Negroid, Negroid.
Religion: Islam.
Languages: Arabic (official), Hassaniya Arabic, French, Pular,
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims.
HISTORY:
Tens of thousands of years ago, the Sahara regions were verdant
and filled with game. Archeological evidence suggest that Caucasoid
Berber and Negroid Mauritanians lived beside one another before
the spread of the desert drove them southward.
----------------------------------------------------------
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
As the Muslims rarely depicted themselves, due to religious and cultural
reasons, most historic art come from Europeans who witnessed them. In the
case of the Moors, the Cantigas of Santa Maria sponsored by Alfonso X in
the 13th Century depict Muslims and deal primarily with Moors most likely
connected to the Almoravid invasions of Spain. Miriam DeCosta in his work
on the Cantigas points out the portrayal of Blacks in this work as members
of the military or the aristocracy. In the Almoravid army Moors are shown
as foot soldiers, bowmen, lancers on horseback and high ranking officers.
SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO MOORS
Moorish noblemen playing chess while being waited upon by servants dated
1283AD. These Moors were most likely members of the Almoravid Dynasties
which invaded Spain in the 11th century AD.
Courtesy of _Islam Under the Crusaders_
A host of other non-Muslim figures are also described as Black and
Moorish. These included the Black St. Maurice whose name translates as
"like a Moor." St. Maurice, the Knight of the Holy Lance, is regarded as
the greatest patron saint of the Holy Roman Empire. Rumored to be a Roman
commander of Egyptian descent, Maurice is said to have gained sainthood
after refusing to have his legion massacre a Christian uprising.
Worshipped as early as 460AD, St. Maurice has had numerous artworks and
structures---even a castle---dedicated to him. The existence of nearly
three hundred major images of the Black St. Maurice have been catalogued,
and even today his worship is seen within numerous cathedrals in eastern
Germany.
Picture of Mauritius the Moor. Better known as St. Maurice Courtesy of
_Journal of African Studies_
According to Roman documents, among the Berbers were the "black Gaetuli
and black-skinned Asphodelodes." Harold A. MacMicheal pointed out that
African Blacks such as the Tibbu and Tuwarek, resembling the ancient
Nigiritians of the Sahara, are Lamta Berbers by origin. The Haratin of
Morocco and Mauritania have also been called "Black Berbers."
SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO BERBER WOMEN
Tuareg women commonly identified as Berbers
Courtesy of National Geographic Magazine
The Berber clans that were most instrumental in the Moorish conquest of
Spain were the Nafza, Masmuda, Luwata, Hawwara, Zanata, Sanhadja and
Zugwaha. Writing of the women of the Berber clan the Sanhadja
confederation a Muslim scholar states, "Their color is black, though some
pale ones can be found among them."
There are obviously Black as well as Caucasian Berbers, the former seeming
to be the most original. Dana Reynolds states the following:
It is unfortunate, for these men and women belonged to a 'black'
population whose time predates the Muslim invasion of North Africa. They
are a people whose
documented history goes back in North Africa to the time of the Pharaohs
and the phase of Carthaginian history that produced Hannibal. Most books
that attempt to
speak of 'Berber' origins (though the Moors were not just the Berbers)
claim that they were 'whites' affiliated biologically with European like
those who live in the Atlas Mountains and close to the Mediterranean
today.
elfatvis
<whited...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> And Neil Armstrong was a black man.
>
> ROTFLMAO!!!!
>
> WD
I believe that was Louie 'Satchmo' Armstrong.
Unlike the energizer bunny, the jungle bunny is going no where fast.
We are BARD! You will be resisted. Assimilation is futile.
--
No igual al conejo energizer, el conejo de la jungla no va a ningun
lugar rapido.
©1999 elfatvis
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
fac...@my-deja.com
America" . And to think just a few weeks ago you were telling us all that
negroes were paddling their dugouts back and forth across the Atlantic in
the late 14 Century. I take it you now share the same contempt for Mr
Sertima's ridiculous assertions as I do myself. (regards Facts 21).
> For information about this page, contact owner-af...@msstate.edu.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
fac...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> America:
> >
> > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
Mr. McGill, i was hoping i would find new information when i read
your heading, but have been disappointed to find dead ends and no
sources, and many discrepancies.
The author of this link at wmc.edu was a student who furnished the
information for the web page...NOT a source, however " Peterson " uses
Sharon Harley, Phd. as her source. Go to Sharon Harley's page and she
does not list sources.
> > Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New
York:
Sharon Harley Phd does not list sources, why do you use sources who
do not have sources Mr. McGill ?
BTW, Christobal Colón WAS the navigator and made all the
navigational readings using an astrolabe and magnetic compass. He used
to lie to the crew as to how far they had gone to avoid a mutiny.
Christobal Colon was white, and now Mr. McGill says the ship had another
navigator ? Unbelievable, especially since this voyage was well
documented by the Spanish.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> America:
> >
>
> > TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> > HARLEY PHD.
> >
> >
> Sir, Sharon Harley Phd, does not give her sources.
> --
> j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
>
>
Yes almost all of the sites don't. One gives the Smithsonian Institute as
a source, I am still following up on that one.
http://odin.indstate.edu/Newsletter/feb98.html
The first Black explorer in North America was Pedro Alonzo Nino, a
navigator on one of the three ships of Christopher Columbus on his first
voyage to the
New World in 1492 (page 37).
Alford, Sterling G. Famous First Blacks. New York: Vantage Press, 1974.
(E185.96 .A514)
Sterling G. Alford doesn't give his source also.
----------------------------------------------------
http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/kansas/crossingboundaries/page5.html
1492
Pedro Alonzo Nino, considered the first of many New World explorers of
African descent, sails with Christopher Columbus.
---------------------------
http://hal.calc.k12.la.us/~hssstud/americanhistorycurguide.htm
The student will identify selected explorers of the Age of Discovery and
cite reasons for the
encouragement of immigration of Europeans to America.
Early explorers of North America
a.Columbus
b.Balboa
c.Ponce de Leon
d.Magellan
e.DeSoto
f.Coronado
g.Cabot
h.Drake
i.Cartier
j.Champlain
k.Marquette and Joliet
l.LaSalle
m.Hudson
n.Estevanico
o.Prince Henry "The Navigator"
p.Dias (Diaz)
q.Da Gama
r.Cortez
s.Pizarro
t.Cabeza da Vaca
Black involvement in early explorations
a.Pedro Alonzo Nino
b.Nuflo de Olano
--------------------------------------
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
In article <email-04129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm" <1stb...@neta.com> wrote:
>
> > The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
> > Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are
> > closely realated to the Basques according to an article last year
in
> > GeoMundo from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to
> > the Jews as they came from the same ancester the biblical
> > Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees. Chaldea was in what today
> > is Iraq and they are not negroid but semitic.
> >
> > Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by
> > Mediterranean type people same as Southern Europeans.
> >
> > j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
>
>
> Most books that attempt to
> speak of 'Berber' origins (though the Moors were not just the Berbers)
> claim that they were 'whites' affiliated biologically with European
> like those who live in the Atlas Mountains and close to the
> Mediterranean today.
>
Mr McGill, look at what you write " Most books " claim they were
white. "Some historians describe the Moors "as a small black people,
BURNED BY THE SUN "
Mr. McGill, one of my sources is and Compare what the Britannica
has to say bout the Almoravids and Tashfin. Both were desert
Berbers
NOT negroid but semetic.
Someone being described as dark and wooly haired doesn not an
African make, to this day there are many Jews, Armenian, Greeks
and Turks that can be described thusly and that does not make
them negroids. BTW, it is known to happen that Nordic or Germanic stock
Spaniards have referred to the darker complected southerners as Black in
a derogatory way but not in the sense of Black African.
The numbers of Almoravids was small and the number of
Black Moors that came with them a very small number, Statistically
insignificant. No one deny their presence, only their impact,
historically or racially.
http://search.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/9/0,5716,5949+1,00.html
Almoravids
Arabic AL-MURABITUN (Those Dwelling in Frontier Fortresses, or
Warrior-Monks), confederation of Berber tribes--Lamtunah, Gudalah,
Massufah--of the Sanhajah clan, whose religious zeal and military
enterprise
built an empire in northwestern Africa and Muslim Spain in the
11th and 12th centuries. These Saharan Berbers were inspired to
improve their knowledge of Islamic doctrine by their leader
Yahya ibn Ibrahim and the Moroccan theologian 'Abd Allah ibn Yasin.
Under Abu Bakr al-Lamtuni and later Yusuf ibn Tashufin, the
Almoravids merged their religious reform fervour with the
conquest of Morocco and western Algeria as far as Algiers
between 1054 and 1092. They established their capital at
Marrakech in 1062. Yusuf assumed the title of amir al-muslimin
("commander of the Muslims") but still paid homage
to the 'Abbasid caliph (amir al-mu'minin, "commander of the
faithful") in Baghdad. He moved into Spain in 1085, as the
old caliphal territories of Córdoba were falling before
the Christians and Toledo was being taken by
Alfonso VI of Castile and Leon. At the Battle of az-Zallaqah,
near Badajoz, in 1086 Yusuf halted an advance by the
Castilians but did not regain Toledo.
The whole of Muslim Spain, however, except Valencia, independent
under El Cid (Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar), eventually came under
Almoravid rule. In the reign (1106-42) of 'Ali ibn Yusuf the
union between Spain and Africa was consolidated, and Andalusian
civilization took root: administrative machinery
was Spanish in pattern, writers and artists crossed the straits,
and the great monuments built by 'Ali in the Maghrib were
models of pure Andalusian art. But the Almoravids were but a
Berber minority at the head of the Spanish-Arab empire, and
while they tried to hold Spain with Berber troops
and the Maghrib with a strong Christian guard, they could not
restrain the tide of Christian reconquest that began with the
fall of Saragossa in 1118. In 1125 the Almohads began a
rebellion in the Atlas Mountains and after 22 years of
fighting emerged victorious. Marrakech fell in 1147, and
thereafter Almoravid leaders survived only for a time in
Spain and the Balearic Isles.
Art of the Almoravid period is most noted for its sobriety
and puritanism after the ornamental excesses of the Umayyads.
It was only in the "minor," decorative arts of weaving and
ivory carving that the Almoravids used ornamentation as
an end in itself. Desert dwellers, military monks from the
Sahara, the Almoravids shunned the lavish decoration that had
characterized the late Umayyad architectural style and
built on a practical rather than a monumental scale. Even
in the secular sphere, piety and asceticism forbade
the building of splendid palaces and monuments. The main
architectural motif of the period was the horseshoe arch,
which in later times was elaborated and used extensively
by the Almohads and the Nasrids. Minarets, usually placed at
the corner of the mihrab (prayer niche facing Mecca), were
square and only sparsely decorated. The most famous work to
survive from the Almoravid age is the Great Mosque at
Tlemcen, Algeria. Built in 1082, it was restored in 1136
but not in true Almoravid style. The mihrab is unusually
ornate, surrounded by multilobed arches decorated with
arabesques. The work is indicative of
trends that were to develop in Spain and North Africa
under the Almoravids' successors, the Almohads and the
Nasrids.
http://search.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/idxref/9/0,5716,83236,00.ht
ml
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
>
> > In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer
to
> > America:
> > >
> >
> > > TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> > > HARLEY PHD.
> > >
> > >
> > Sir, Sharon Harley Phd, does not give her sources.
>
as
> a source, I am still following up on that one.
>
site which lists sources which can be substantiated.
> The first Black explorer in North America was Pedro Alonzo Nino, a
> navigator on one of the three ships of Christopher Columbus
Christobal Colon was THE Navigator sir, not someone else.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
ITS-MY...@webtv.net (IMJ) wrote:
> x...@worldnet.att.net (Verner=A0Roentgen) aka. (Eva Braun)wrote
ignorance is
> bliss!
>
>
The heading is misleading because the navigator of the Christobal
Colon ship was in fact Christobal Colon himself.
M.McGill
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
In article <38494009...@neta.com>, "j_2000 Los Americanos
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm" <1stb...@neta.com> wrote:
> "M.McGill" wrote:
> >
> > In article <825q1t$5fs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, fac...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > And blacks from Africa (Moors)
>
> The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
> Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are closely
> realated to the Basques according to an article last year in GeoMundo
> from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to the Jews as they came
> from the same ancester the biblical Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees.
> Chaldea was in what today is Iraq and they are not negroid but semitic.
>
> Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by Mediterranean
> type people same as Southern Europeans.
>
> j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
B. Math/Science/Technology
algebra gunpowder
zero sewers
water wheels for irrigation
chess adobe
atlas glazed tiles
alcohol paper/papermaking
windmills
6/5/95
Black Moors in Mauritania
Total Population: 2,335,000
Ethnic Groups:
White Moors 30%
Black Moors 35%
Kewri 35%
PEOPLE:
HISTORY:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <38494009...@neta.com>, "j_2000 Los Americanos
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm" <1stb...@neta.com> wrote:
>
> > The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
> > Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are
closely
> > realated to the Basques according to an article last year in
GeoMundo
> > from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to the Jews as they
came
> > from the same ancester the biblical Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees.
> > Chaldea was in what today is Iraq and they are not negroid but
semitic.
> >
> > Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by
> > Mediterranean type people same as Southern Europeans.
When i was in Morocco i saw few " Blacks " as are indicated in the
link you provided. They must have been looking only for " Blacks " and
not whites to make their point.
I can do the same Mr. McGill, see the following url for the white
Moroccans at http://www.charm.net/~wsahara/
http://www.charm.net/~wsahara/people.html
They are the Saharawi People in Morocco, are white NOT Black.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
M.McGill
<whited...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> And Neil Armstrong was a black man.
>
> ROTFLMAO!!!!
>
> WD
FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is
substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has
the
following form:
1.X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed
at the claim).
2.Therefore claim C is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
1."Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but
that is just laughable."
2."Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks!
Hah! Hah!"
3."Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key
to peace!"
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not
show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following
example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use
of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can
make it reasonable to reject the claim.
>
> In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> America:
> >
> > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> >
> > Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New York:
> > Simon & Schuster, 1995. ISBN 0-671-79524-4. Cost $35.00.
> >
> > A good supplement to add to your library for a more well rounded view
> of
> > history is this chronological timetable of important events and
> people in
> > African American history. The table is broken down into the following
> > columns: general history, education, laws & legal actions, religion,
> > literature & publications, arts, science ,technology & medicine and
> > sports. Being a table the information is not very indepth but does
> provide
> > a place to start research. The table starts with 1492 when Pedro
> Alonzo
> > Nino navigated the Santa Maria and continues on up to the 1990s. It's
> easy
> > to use and provides additional information on any time period of
> American
> > history you happen to be covering in class. I would recommend it for
> 6th
> > grade and up.
> > -------------------------------------
> > http://www.msstate.edu/listarchives/afrigeneas/199707/msg00582.html
> >
> > TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> > HARLEY PHD.
> >
> > 1492
> >
> > Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> > America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives with
> > the explorer Christopher Columbus.
> >
> > For information about this page, contact owner-
> > For information about Mississippi State University, contact
> > msu...@ur.msstate.edu.
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/aapoet/timeline1.html
> >
> > 1492-1565 Africans accompanied explorers on expeditions to the "New"
> > World; for example, Pedro Alonzo Nino navigated for Columbus in 1492
> and
> > Nuflo de Olano and 29 other Africans accompanied Balboa in the
> crossing of
> > Panama. Others accompanied Desoto (1539) and Coronado (1540).
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > http://www.unityint.org/aahistory.htm
> >
> > In 1492, A black man named Pedro Alonzo Niño, sailed on Christopher
> > Columbus¹s ship on the first Spanish voyage to the new world.
> Sailors of
> > African ancestry are members of all the major Spanish expeditions to
> the
> > Americas, including Balboa, Ponce de León, Cortés, Pizarro, and
> Menéndez.
> >
>
>
M.McGill
elfatvis
McGilla, you dumb ape. You ARE ridiculous!
Unlike the energizer bunny, the jungle bunny is going no where fast.
We are BARD! You will be resisted. Assimilation is futile.
--
No igual al conejo energizer, el conejo de la jungla no va a ningun
lugar rapido.
©1999 elfatvis
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <82dt48$kl2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> fac...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> > America:
> > >
> > > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
>
> Mr. McGill, i was hoping i would find new information when i read
> your heading, but have been disappointed to find dead ends and no
> sources, and many discrepancies.
> The author of this link at wmc.edu was a student who furnished the
> information for the web page...NOT a source, however " Peterson " uses
> Sharon Harley, Phd. as her source. Go to Sharon Harley's page and she
> does not list sources.
>
> > > Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New
> York:
> Sharon Harley Phd does not list sources, why do you use sources who
> do not have sources Mr. McGill ?
> BTW, Christobal Colón WAS the navigator and made all the
> navigational readings using an astrolabe and magnetic compass. He used
> to lie to the crew as to how far they had gone to avoid a mutiny.
> Christobal Colon was white, and now Mr. McGill says the ship had another
> navigator ? Unbelievable, especially since this voyage was well
> documented by the Spanish.
> --
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/crew.htm
Columbus's Crew
Crew of the Santa Maria:
Cristobal Colon (Christopher Columbus), captain-general
Juan de la Cosa, owner and master
Diego de Arana, master-at-arms
Pedro de Gutierrez, royal steward
Rodrigo de Escobedo, secretary of the fleet
Rodrigo Sanchez, comptroller
Diego de Salcedo, servant of Columbus
Luis de Torres, interpreter
Rodrigo de Jerez
Alonso Chocero
Alonso Clavijo
Andres de Yruenes
Antonia de Cuellar, carpenter
Bartolome Biues
Bartolome de Torres
Bartolome Garcia, boatswain
Chachu, boatswain
Cristobal Caro, goldsmith
Diego Bermudez
Diego Perez, painter
Domingo de Lequeitio
Domingo Vizcaino, cooper
Gonzalo Franco
Jacomel Rico
Juan, servant
Juan de Jerez
Juan de la Placa
Juan Martines de Acoque
Juan de Medina
Juan de Moguer
Juan Ruiz de la Pena
Juan Sanchez, physician
Lope, joiner
Maestre Juan
Marin de Urtubia
Pedro de Terreros, cabin boy
** Pero Nino, pilot **
Pedro Yzquierdo
Pedro de Lepe
Rodrigo Gallego, servant
---------------------------------------
http://www.panix.com/~mittle/names/juliana/portuguese/
Portuguese Names 1350-1450
by Juliana de Luna (Julia Smith)
jul...@pitt.edu
© 1998 by Julia Smith; all rights reserved.
Given Names
Men's Names
The 191 individuals share only 24 names, though these names are found in a
variety of forms (with a single individual's name often spelled multiple
ways).
Joham, the most common name, accounts for 21% of individuals, and the top
5 names account for 56% of individuals. The masculine given names are
listed
below in order of frequency. Variant forms are listed in declining order
of frequency; counting the number of individuals with each form is not
feasible since
the names of some individuals take more than one form.
1. Joham, Johan, Johane, Johanne 40
(21%)
2. Gonçallo, Gomçallo 22
(12%)
3. Martim, Martym, Martinho, Martimho 16
(8%)
4. Alvaro, Alvoro 15
(8%)
5. Fernam, Fernanado, Feram 13
(7%)
6. Affonso, Afonsso, Affonso, Afonso 11
(6%)
Lourenço, Louremço, Loureço 11
(6%)
Vaasco 11
(6%)
9. Rrui, Rui, Ruy 9
(5%)
10. ** Pedro, Pero ** 7
---------------------------------
Pedro and Pero are the same name. So Pedro Nino is the same as Pero Nino.
Pero Nino was the pilot (navigator of the Santa Maria.
----------------------------------
Patronymic Bynames
There are two forms that patronymic bynames take in Portuguese, similar to
the situation in Spanish. The form is determined by the father's name. In
the more common form, the final vowel of the name is replaced with -ez.
Most scholars consider that this is derived from the Latin genitive form.
A smaller group of names are used as patronymic bynames without being
modified in any way. In this data, 94 individuals (49%) had as one of
their bynames a patronymic bynames ending in -ez, while 33 (17%)
individuals had a patronymic byname that was not altered.
The following table includes names and their patronymic forms. Names in
brackets [] are not found in the texts, though all are documented in
Portugal. Among the bracketed named, ones marked with a star * are from
the late twelfth century; the unstarred names are from the sixteenth
century.
Name Patronymic form
Affonso Affonso
Airas [Airas]
Alvaro Alvarez
[Andre] André
Diego Diaz
[Domingos] Dominguez
Estavam Estevez, Stevez
Fernam Fernandez
Gill Gill
Gonçallo Gonçallvez
Gomez Gomez
[Goterre] Goterrez
Hanrrique [Anrriquez]
Joham Eannes
Lopo Lopez
Lourenço Lourenço
Martim Martinez
[Mateus] Mateus
*[Meen] Meendez
Nuno Nunez
[Paullo] Paulo
Pero,Pedro Perez
---------------------------
Again we see that Pero and Pedro are the same name. Pedro Nino and Pero
Nino are the same name, the pilot (navigator) of the Santa Maria.
Doctor Death
that your post are nothing more than nigger garbage.
How many times must the white man whip your black ass before you
understand?
DD
"M.McGill" <em...@domain.com> wrote in message
news:email-05129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com...
> In article <82e6av$qql$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, j_2000
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <17828-38...@storefull-256.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> > ITS-MY...@webtv.net (IMJ) wrote:
> > > x...@worldnet.att.net (Verner=A0Roentgen) aka. (Eva Braun)wrote
> > ignorance is
> > > bliss!
> > >
> > >
> > The heading is misleading because the navigator of the Christobal
> > Colon ship was in fact Christobal Colon himself.
> -----------------------------
> http://odin.indstate.edu/Newsletter/feb98.html
>
> The first Black explorer in North America was Pedro Alonzo Nino, a
> navigator on one of the three ships of Christopher Columbus on his first
> voyage to the
> New World in 1492 (page 37).
>
> Alford, Sterling G. Famous First Blacks. New York: Vantage Press, 1974.
> (E185.96 .A514)
>
> Sterling G. Alford doesn't give his source also.
> -------------------------------
> http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
> One of the navigator's on Columbus' first voyage to America to America
> was a black man named Pedro Alonzo Nino (Smithsonian Institute:5) .
Dr. Death says...
Any damn thing he wants too!
M.McGill
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> them negroids.<snip>
Look at the pictures (artwork):
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
---------------------------------------------
Mauritania (which means land of the Moors) is 4/5 Saharan, and is mostly
Black (Negroid) Moors.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
PROFILE
GEOGRAPHY:
Terrain: Northern four-fifths barren desert; southern 20%
mainly Sahelian with small scale irrigated and rain-fed agriculture
in the Senegal River basin.
Climate: Predominantly hot and dry.
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
------------------------------
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/cidcm/mar/rimblm.htm
Anne Pitsch (114)
6/5/95
Black Moors in Mauritania
Total Population: 2,335,000
Ethnic Groups:
White Moors 30%
Black Moors 35%
Kewri 35%
(All population figures are estimates for 1995)
Religion: Islam (100%) Languages: Hassinya, French, Soninke, Pulaar, Wolof)
---------------------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
---------------------------------------------
Here you will see a map of NorthWest Africa and see Mauritania is near
Morocco, Algeria, and Mali in the Western Sahara:
http://www.emulateme.com/mauritania.htm
----------------------------------------------
http://www.emulateme.com/content/mauritania.htm
Mauritania
Location: Northern Africa, bordering the North Atlantic Ocean, between
Senegal and Western Sahara
People
Ethnic groups: mixed Maur/black 40%, Maur 30%, black 30%
Religions: Muslim 100%
Languages: Hasaniya Arabic (official), Pular, Soninke, Wolof (official), French
-----------------------------------------------------
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/mauritania/mr_glos.html#West
West Sahara(n)
Region of West Africa comprising parts of Mauritania, Mali,
Morocco, and Algeria.
Western Sahara
Formerly Spanish Sahara. Region of West Africa bordered on the west
by the Atlantic Ocean, on the north by Morocco, on the south and nearly
all of its
west by Mauritania. In the northwest corner, it shares a very short
border with Algeria. Spain divided Spanish Sahara between Morocco and
Mauritania--ignoring the sentiments of indigenous groups--when it
relinquished colonial control in 1976. Subsequently Polisario (q.v.)
guerrillas
supported by Algeria among other states waged a war for
independence primarily against forces of Morocco.
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
><big snip>
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
A Racial Analysis of the Moors
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/sources.html
Sources and References
Sources for Articles on the Moors taken primarily from Golden Age of the
Moor edited by Ivan Van Sertima
1. Oxford English Dictionary
2. Webster's New World Dictionary
3. Frank M. Snowden, Before Color Prejudice (Cambridge,MA: Harvard
University Press, 1983)
4. Procopius, History of the Wars, bk. 4, trans. and ed. H.B. Dawing
(Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1954),
5. The Compact Edition of the English Oxford Dictionary
6. Miriam DeCosta, "The Portrayal of Blacks in a Spanish Medieval
Manuscript," Negro History Bulletin 37, No. 1 (1973)
7. Hakluyt, Richard, The Principal Voyages, Traffiques and Discoveries of
the English Nation , vol. 4 (Glasgow: James MacLehose & Sons, 1905)
8. Stoll, Elmer E., Othello, An Historical and Comparative Study
(Minneapolis: University of Minnesota, 1915),
9. Gude Suckale-Redlefsen, The Black St. Maurice (Houston: Menil
Foundation, 1987)
10. Weston, Jessie L., Morien (trans) (London: Nutt, 1901),
11. Thompson, Lloyd, Romans and Blacks (Norman: University of Oklahoma
Press, 1989),
12. MacMicheal, Harold A., A History of the Arabs in the Sudan, vol. 1
(New York: Barnes & Noble, 1967),
13. DeMedeiros, F., "The Peoples of the Sudan: Population Movements," in
UNESCO General History of Africa. Vol. 3: Africa from the Seventh to
the Eleventh Century, ed. M. El Fasi (Berkeley: University of California
Press, 1988),
14. Lewis, Bernard, Race and Slavery in the Middle Ages (London: Oxford
University Press, 1990),
15. Reynolds, Dana, "Background to the Emergence of Early Berber and Arab
Peoples, from Prehistory to the Islamic Dynasties," Golden Age of the
Moor, ed. Ivan Van Sertima, (London: Transaction, 1993)
16. Norris, H.T., The Berbers in Arabic Literature (London: Longman, 1982)
17. Al-Makkary, The History of Mohammedan Dynasties in Spain, trans. by
British Museum, (New reprint: Delhi no. 38, 1984)
18. Lane-Poole, Stanley. The Moors in Spain. (London: T.Fischer Unwin, 1887)
19. Abdulwahid Dhanun Taha, The Muslim Conquest and Settlement of North
Africa and Spain (London: Routledge, 1989),
20. Smith, Colin, Christians and Moors in Spain, Volume I: 711-1150
(Warminister: Aris & Phillips, 1988),
21. Nykl, A.R., Hispano-Arabic Poetry (Baltimore: JR First, 1946),
22. Lewis, Bernard, Islam, Vol. 1: Politics and War (New York: Walker, 1974),
23. Shaw, Flora L., A Tropical Dependency,
Read, Jan. The Moors in Spain and Portugal, (Totowa, NJ: Rowman and
Littlefield, 1975)
24. Lawson, J., European Folk Dance, rev. ed. (London: Pitman, 1955),
25. Blakely, Allison, "Santa's Black Aide: A Glimpse at Race Relation's in
Holland," New Directions (Jan. 1980),
26. Edwards, Paul and Walvin, James, "Africans in Britain, 1500-1800," in
The African Diaspora, eds. Martin L. Kilson and Robert I. Rotberg
(Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1976),
27. Forbes, Jack D., Black Africans and Native Americans (New York: Basil
Blackwell, 1988),
28. Scobie, Edward, Black Brittania (Chicago: Johnson, 1972),
29. Kaplan, Paul, The Rise of the Black Magus in Western Art(Ann Arbor:
University of Michigan Press, 1985),
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-05129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> > In article <38494009...@neta.com>, "j_2000 Los Americanos
> > http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm" <1stb...@neta.com> wrote:
> >
>
> > > The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a mixture of
> > > Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA reveals they are
> closely
> > > realated to the Basques according to an article last year in
> GeoMundo
> > > from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to the Jews as they
> came
> > > from the same ancester the biblical Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees.
> > > Chaldea was in what today is Iraq and they are not negroid but
> semitic.
> > >
> > > Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by
> > > Mediterranean type people same as Southern Europeans.
>
> When i was in Morocco i saw few " Blacks " as are indicated in the
> link you provided. They must have been looking only for " Blacks " and
> not whites to make their point.
> I can do the same Mr. McGill, see the following url for the white
> Moroccans at http://www.charm.net/~wsahara/
> http://www.charm.net/~wsahara/people.html
> They are the Saharawi People in Morocco, are white NOT Black.
What is your reply about Mauratania (The land of the Moors) which is
mostly Black (Negroid) Moors?
>
> --
> j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
>
>
syn...@my-deja.com
Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan who
studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
other way around.
2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
Ghana.
3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the rest
of the tribe black as well.
4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was NOT
due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other Arabs
from Yemen(Argiculture)
5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the south
and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse the
expression.
6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
trade and they were used as soldiers.
In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
Africa/Spain.
Regards
M.McGill
Supreme-B...@Phreaker.net wrote:
> GEOSHITTIES!!!!!! This is from the bottom of page, "Copyright
> Africentric Studies Research Group 1997. All rights reserved. Except
> as provided under U.S. copyright law, all written information may not
> be reproduced, resold, distributed or modified without the express
> permission Africentric Research Studies Group. "
> The misspelling of Afrocentric was left intact. LOL
> Now, just need to determine if this is an actual copyright or a
> "disclaimer"!
Another attempt at Fallacy of Poisoning the Well
Description of Poisoning the Well
This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might
later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false)
about the person. This "argument" has the following form:
1.Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is
presented.
2.Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such
an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias
listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject
any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable
information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence
against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when
Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem.
And FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is
substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has
the
following form:
1.X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed
at the claim).
2.Therefore claim C is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
1."Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but
that is just laughable."
2."Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks!
Hah! Hah!"
3."Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key
to peace!"
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not
show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following
example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use
of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can
make it reasonable to reject the claim.
--------------------------------------------
Here are the sources for the web page, that go beyond afrocentrism or Geocities:
M.McGill
Moor:[From latin Maurus inhabitant of Mauretania] (14c) word originated in
the 14th century: One of the mixed Arab and Berber conquerors of Spain in
the 8th century A.D.
------------------
Negroid Berbers called Tuareg speaking arabic. Negroid Mauritanians.
Most of the Moors of Mauritania (the land of the Moors) are Black
(Negroid) Moors. Here is the proof:
Mauritania (which means land of the Moors) is 4/5 Saharan, and is mostly
Black (Negroid) Moors.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
PROFILE
GEOGRAPHY:
Terrain: Northern four-fifths barren desert; southern 20%
mainly Sahelian with small scale irrigated and rain-fed agriculture
in the Senegal River basin.
Climate: Predominantly hot and dry.
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
------------------------------
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/cidcm/mar/rimblm.htm
Anne Pitsch (114)
6/5/95
Black Moors in Mauritania
Total Population: 2,335,000
Ethnic Groups:
White Moors 30%
Black Moors 35%
Kewri 35%
(All population figures are estimates for 1995)
Religion: Islam (100%) Languages: Hassinya, French, Soninke, Pulaar, Wolof)
---------------------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <17828-38...@storefull-256.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
> > ITS-MY...@webtv.net (IMJ) wrote:
> > > x...@worldnet.att.net (Verner=A0Roentgen) aka. (Eva Braun)wrote
> > ignorance is
> > > bliss!
> > >
> > >
> > The heading is misleading because the navigator of the
Christobal
> > Colon ship was in fact Christobal Colon himself.
> > --
>
says the " navigator " of the Christobal Colon ship was " Negroid ".
You do in fact keep posting misleading information.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > The Moors were not black, they were semetic people, a
> > > > mixture of Arabs and Berbers, genetically the berbers DNA
> > > > reveals they are closely realated to the Basques
> > > > according to an article last year in
> > > > GeoMundo from Spain. The Arabs are even closer related to
> > > > the Jews as they came from the same ancester the biblical
> > > > Abraham from Ur of the Chaldees. Chaldea was in what today
> > > > is Iraq and they are not negroid but semitic.
> > > >
> > > > Norht Africa or the Maghreb was ariginally populated by
> > > > Mediterranean type people same as Southern Europeans.
> > > Most books that attempt to
> > > speak of 'Berber' origins (though the Moors were not just the
Berbers)
> > > claim that they were 'whites' affiliated biologically with
European
> >
> > > like those who live in the Atlas Mountains and close to the
> > > Mediterranean today.
> > >
> > Mr McGill, look at what you write " Most books " claim they were
> > white. "Some historians describe the Moors "as a small black
> > people, BURNED BY THE SUN "
> >
> > Mr. McGill, one of my sources is and Compare what the
> > Britannica has to say bout the Almoravids and Tashfin. Both
> > were desert Berbers NOT negroid but semetic.
> >
Mr. McGill i don't object to your [ snipping the information ] i
posted, it was from the Britannica which you seem to think is a [ big
snip ]. That is your perogative, i do use the Britannica as well as
other sourcees and feel that it is a realiable source.
Let's get back to your claim that the " Navigator " of the
Christobal Colon ship was " Negroid ".....Sir Christobal Colon was
white and was the " Navigator " of his ship.
If i should receive any information from reliable sources to the
contrary, i will help you in your claim AND will post it here. I am
not out to dispute " you " Mr. McGill ( was looking forward to good
information, and was disappointed ).
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
What about your claim about the " Navigator " of Christobal
Colon's ship being a " Negro "...the Navigator WAS Christobal Colon.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
> > > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > > Here are several sources for the African Negro
> > > > navigator/explorer to America:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> >
I checked and " Peterson " who is your main source is an unknown
student who put that particular page together, and also who had no
sources except to list Sharon Harley, Phd., who also has no sources.
> > Mr. McGill, i was hoping i would find new information when i read
> > your heading, but have been disappointed to find dead ends and no
> > sources, and many discrepancies.
> > BTW, Christobal Colón WAS the navigator and made all the
> > navigational readings using an astrolabe and magnetic compass. He
> > used to lie to the crew as to how far they had gone to avoid a
> > mutiny. Christobal Colon was white, and now Mr. McGill says the
> > ship had another navigator ?
> Again
" Again " ? And those are the same sources which have no sources
that you tout as truth positive. I will try and help you, and once i
find out from reliable sources i will post what i find here.
>we see that Pero and Pedro are the same name. Pedro Nino and
Pero
> Nino are the same name, the pilot (navigator) of the Santa Maria.
>
My unabridged new twentieth century second edition does not
describe a pilot to be a " Navigator " , but maybe your dictionary is
different than mine. Christobal Colon was the navigator and was not a "
Negroid ".
M.McGill
Moor:[From latin Maurus inhabitant of Mauretania] (14c) word originated in
in the 8th century A.D.
------------------
Most of the Moors of Mauritania (the land of the Moors) are Black
(Negroid) Moors. Here is the proof:
Mauritania (which means land of the Moors) is 4/5 Saharan, and is mostly
Black (Negroid) Moors.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
PROFILE
GEOGRAPHY:
Terrain: Northern four-fifths barren desert; southern 20%
mainly Sahelian with small scale irrigated and rain-fed agriculture
in the Senegal River basin.
Climate: Predominantly hot and dry.
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
------------------------------
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/cidcm/mar/rimblm.htm
Anne Pitsch (114)
6/5/95
Black Moors in Mauritania
Total Population: 2,335,000
Ethnic Groups:
White Moors 30%
Black Moors 35%
Kewri 35%
(All population figures are estimates for 1995)
Religion: Islam (100%) Languages: Hassinya, French, Soninke, Pulaar, Wolof)
---------------------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
M.McGill
Supreme-B...@Phreaker.net wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Dec 1999 21:14:41 GMT, em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> GEOSHITTIES!!!!!! This is from the bottom of page, "Copyright
> Africentric Studies Research Group 1997. All rights reserved. Except
> as provided under U.S. copyright law, all written information may not
> be reproduced, resold, distributed or modified without the express
> permission Africentric Research Studies Group. "
> The misspelling of Afrocentric was left intact. LOL
> Now, just need to determine if this is an actual copyright or a
> "disclaimer"!
Another attempt at the Fallacy of Poisoning the Well.
Description of Poisoning the Well
This sort of "reasoning" involves trying to discredit what a person might
later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false)
about the person. This "argument" has the following form:
1.Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is
presented.
2.Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.
This sort of "reasoning" is obviously fallacious. The person making such
an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias
listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject
any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable
information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence
against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when
Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem.
Examples of Poisoning the Well
1."Don't listen to him, he's a scoundrel."
2."Before turning the floor over to my opponent, I ask you to remember
that those who oppose my plans do not have the best wishes of
the university at heart."
3.You are told, prior to meeting him, that your friend's boyfriend is
a decadent wastrel. When you meet him, everything you hear him say
is tainted.
Also FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
Description of Appeal to Ridicule
The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is
substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has
the
following form:
1.X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed
at the claim).
2.Therefore claim C is false.
Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
1."Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but
that is just laughable."
2."Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks!
Hah! Hah!"
3."Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key
to peace!"
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not
show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following
example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use
of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can
make it reasonable to reject the claim.
Here are the sources of the web page that go beyond afrocentricism or Geocities:
M.McGill
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
THE AFRICAN PRESENCE IN SPAIN: THE MOORS
(How Africans Influenced and Contributed to Spanish Language, History and
Culture)
M.McGill
> In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> America:
> >
> > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> >
> > Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New York:
> > Simon & Schuster, 1995. ISBN 0-671-79524-4. Cost $35.00.
> >
> > A good supplement to add to your library for a more well rounded view of
> > history is this chronological timetable of important events and people in
> > African American history. The table is broken down into the following
> > columns: general history, education, laws & legal actions, religion,
> > literature & publications, arts, science ,technology & medicine and
> > sports. Being a table the information is not very indepth but does provide
> > a place to start research. The table starts with 1492 when Pedro Alonzo
> > Nino navigated the Santa Maria and continues on up to the 1990s. It's
> easy
> > to use and provides additional information on any time period of American
> > history you happen to be covering in class. I would recommend it for 6th
> > grade and up.
> > -------------------------------------
> > http://www.msstate.edu/listarchives/afrigeneas/199707/msg00582.html
> >
> > TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> > HARLEY PHD.
> >
> > 1492
> >
> > Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> > America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives with
> > the explorer Christopher Columbus.
> >
> Oh dear! Did I read that right? Pedro Alonzo "the first person of colour in
> America" . And to think just a few weeks ago you were telling us all that
> negroes were paddling their dugouts back and forth across the Atlantic in
> the late 14 Century. I take it you now share the same contempt for Mr
> Sertima's ridiculous assertions as I do myself. (regards Facts 21).
Not at all. I was merely providing info from the URL. I don't believe
Pedro Nino was the first person of color to America.
Also I said they (the Mali Mandingos) were doing it in the early 14th
Century, not late. Between 1300 and 1311.
>
> > For information about this page, contact owner-af...@msstate.edu.
> > For information about Mississippi State University, contact
> > msu...@ur.msstate.edu.
> > ---------------------------------------------
> > http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/aapoet/timeline1.html
> >
> > 1492-1565 Africans accompanied explorers on expeditions to the "New"
> > World; for example, Pedro Alonzo Nino navigated for Columbus in 1492
> and
> > Nuflo de Olano and 29 other Africans accompanied Balboa in the
> crossing of
> > Panama. Others accompanied Desoto (1539) and Coronado (1540).
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > http://www.unityint.org/aahistory.htm
> >
> > In 1492, A black man named Pedro Alonzo Niño, sailed on Christopher
> > Columbus¹s ship on the first Spanish voyage to the new world. Sailors of
> > African ancestry are members of all the major Spanish expeditions to the
> > Americas, including Balboa, Ponce de León, Cortés, Pizarro, and
> Menéndez.
> >
>
>
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-03129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> > > > Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> > > > America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives
> > > > with the explorer Christopher Columbus.
> > > >
>
> And who is Pedro Alonzo Nino ? The Christobal Colon voyages from
> Spain are well documented. There was the Pinzón brothers who were
> Castilians (white).
>
> > From the Encyclopedia Britannica:
> > Quote Martín Alonso Pinzón, and Vicente Yáñez Pinzón.
> --
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/crew.htm
Columbus's Crew
Portuguese Names 1350-1450
Given Names
Men's Names
Again we see that Pero and Pedro are the same name. Pedro Nino and Pero
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
>
> > In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer
And they are the same links which have no sources...The navigator
was Christobal Colon and he was white.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
M.McGill
> Dear sir,
>
> Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan who
> studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
Africa in General.
>
> 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
> other way around.
> 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
> which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
> Ghana.
And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
> 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the rest
> of the tribe black as well.
But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the period
of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
> 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was NOT
> due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other Arabs
> from Yemen(Argiculture)
The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as Black
as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes, and
some probably as much as 1/3 or 1/2 African Negroid genes.
Yemen probably got their agriculture from Ethiopia.
"Ethiopia, a country in East Africa ...was ONE OF THE EARLIEST WORLD
CENTERS OF AGRICULTURAL INNOVATION ." - 1995 GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
KNOWLEDGE
> 5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the south
> and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse the
> expression.
Blacks during the Ancient Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay (which
included Mauritania) from the 8th to the 16th Century during the time of
the Moorish & Arabic conquests of Spain were NOT slaves but were rulers of
a vast empire in Northwest Africa, that stretched from the Sudan to the
Atlantic and from North into the Sahara and south to Central Africa.
Timbuktu the great learning center was there also during that time.
Muslims and Europeans came to Timbuktu University to learn science.
> 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
> trade and they were used as soldiers.
But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for thousands of years.
>
> In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
> and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
> believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> Africa/Spain.
I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
>
> Regards
Likewise, kind regards.
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Dear sir,
> >
> > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
who
> > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
>
> The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> Africa in General.
>
by that part..here is the post again.
Dear sir,
Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
who studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
other way around.
2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
Ghana.
3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
rest of the tribe black as well.
4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
NOT due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
Arabs from Yemen(Argiculture)
5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the
south and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse
the
expression.
6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
trade and they were used as soldiers.
In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North
Africa and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do
not believe that
blacks had that much impact on the history of North Africa/Spain.
Regards
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Dear sir,
> >
> > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
who
> > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
>
> The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> Africa in General.
>
And Mr. Snon stated that.
> >
> > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
> > other way around.
> > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
> > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
> > Ghana.
>
> And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
>
Not even according to your own " sources " they are not.
> > 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
rest
> > of the tribe black as well.
>
> But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the
period
> of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
Please post references, i can also show you pictures of white moors.
>
> > 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
NOT
> > due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
Arabs
> > from Yemen(Argiculture)
>
> The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
> origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as
Black
> as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes,
So they were mostly white ( this is according to your figures, 1/6 is
less than 100 ). Mr. McGill you told the world that Ethiopians are
mostly white according to your figures....this does not help your cause
what ever that is.
> Yemen probably got their agriculture from Ethiopia.
> "Ethiopia, a country in East Africa ...was ONE OF THE EARLIEST WORLD
> CENTERS OF AGRICULTURAL INNOVATION ." - 1995 GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
> KNOWLEDGE
>
You found an encylcopiedia which sites something you like, but
discount the Britannica in a earlier post ?
> > 5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the
south
> > and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse the
> > expression.
>
> Blacks during the Ancient Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay (which
> included Mauritania) from the 8th to the 16th Century during the time
of
> the Moorish & Arabic conquests of Spain were NOT slaves but were
rulers of
> a vast empire in Northwest Africa, that stretched from the Sudan to
the
> Atlantic and from North into the Sahara and south to Central Africa.
> Timbuktu the great learning center was there also during that time.
> Muslims and Europeans came to Timbuktu University to learn science.
>
> > 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
> > trade and they were used as soldiers.
>
> But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for thousands
of years.
>
> >
> > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
> > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
> > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > Africa/Spain.
>
> I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
>
" Other scholars " ....the ones you cannot name as sources.
Sir Osis of Dilivir
>
>Look at the pictures (artwork):
>
<snip>
>
>SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO MOORS
>
Your picture came from the Book of Games of Alphonso X. If you want to go
by that (the whole thing, not just one picture), it shows that the Muslims
living in Spain were mostly white or light-skinned, with few exceptions.
See the following:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/3154/Content3.htm
For some reason, the author of the web page calls the many light-skinned
Muslims "Arabs", and the dark-skinned Muslims in one picture "Moors". But
usually, the word "Moors" referred to the Muslim population in general.
<snip>
>SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO BERBER WOMEN
>
>Tuareg women commonly identified as Berbers
A large part of the Tuareg population lives in Mali and Niger. Since they
mostly live far south of most other Berbers it is expected that they would
be quite a bit darker.
<snip>
>Mauritania (which means land of the Moors) is 4/5 Saharan, and is mostly
>Black (Negroid) Moors.
The original Mauretania was a Roman province comprising the western portion
of modern Algeria and the northeastern portion of modern Morocco. Like the
term "Moors" itself, it meant different things at different times.
Sir Osis of Dilivir
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>The most famous geographer of Islamic Spain was al-Idrisi. Here's what he
>had to say about the black peoples...
>
In fact, such opinions were very common throughout the Islamic world. It
goes to show that the black peoples and their societies were not as
"advanced" as Afrocentrists make them out to be. Not that there's anything
wrong with that, though.
More quotes:
Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that "there is no marriage
among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people -- but
God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat
noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence."
- Maqdisi (fl. 966 AD), _Kitab al-Bad'_, vol.4
"We know that the Zanj are the least intelligent and the least discerning of
mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of
actions."
- Jahiz (d. 868 AD), _Kitab al-Bukhala'_
"Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and
the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament."
- Jahiz, _Kitab al-Hayawan_, vol. 2
"They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at
all times -- even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless
stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil
dispositions, make long speeches."
- Jahiz, _Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin_, vol. 3
"Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective
brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence."
- Mas`udi (d. 956 AD), _Muruj al-dhahab_
"As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account
of the heat of their climate. Most of them go naked. In all their lands
and provinces, gold is found. They are people distant from the standards of
humanity."
- Persian geography _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD
"[Inhabitants of Southern countries] are people distant from the standards
of humanity" "Their nature is that of wild animals...."
- from the Persian geography _Hudud al-`alam_, 982 AD
About the Zanj: "Their nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely
black."
About the Sudan: "Among themselves there are people who steal each other's
children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive."
- _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD
"The Zanj are so uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If
a man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every death is
suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a weapon."
- Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, _India_, 1030 AD
"If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after
another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the
Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his
hands have been lifted from the earth,--in no other peculiarity or
property,--except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more
capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent."
- Philosopher-theologian Nasir al-Din Tusi (1201-74), _Tasawwurat_
"The Zanj are slight-witted (_kam 'aql_), and God, most high, has created
them stupid, ignorant, and foul (_palid_)."
from anonymous _Iskandarnamah_, 1343 AD
"Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because
[Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that
are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
- Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_, 14th century AD
"beyond [known peoples of Islamicized West Africa] to the south there is no
civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to
dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and
eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They
cannot be considered human beings."
- Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_
"A man of discernment said: The people of Iraq ... do not come out with
something between blonde, buff, blanched, and leprous coloring, such as the
infants dropped from the wombs of the women of the Slavs and others of
similar light complexion; nor are they overdone in the womb until they are
burned, so that the child comes out something between black, murky,
malodorous, stinking, and crinkly-haired, with uneven limbs, deficient
minds, and depraved passions, such as the Zanj, the Ethiopians, and other
blacks who resemble them. The Iraqis are neither half-baked dough nor burned
crust but between the two."
- Ibn al-Faqih al-Hamadani, _Mukhtasar Kitab al-Buldan_, 903 AD
"[Blacks] are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country."
- Ibn Qutayba (828-89 A.D.)
///////////////////////////////////
"The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds'
to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of
learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only
acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of
learned visitors from farther north."
- BernardLewis, _Race and Slavery in the Middle East_, 1990
"In both Arab and Iranian Islamic writings, blacks are accused of being
stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted,
excessively merry, and easily affected by food and drink."
- Minoo Southgate, "Negative Images of Blacks in Some Medieval Iranian
Writings," Iranian Studies 17 (1984): p.10
elfatvis
<J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-05129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> Colon's ship being a " Negro "...the Navigator WAS Christobal Colon.
>
He wasn't a negro, It was just a nigger lie.
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/crew.htm
Check this out, apparently this kind of thing is common among negro
'scholars'.
http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/afrkhist.htm
Unlike the energizer bunny, the jungle bunny is going no where fast.
We are BARD! You will be resisted. Assimilation is futile.
--
No igual al conejo energizer, el conejo de la jungla no va a ningun
lugar rapido.
©1999 elfatvis
elfatvis
<nigga babble snipped>
> I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
McGilla, you fucking ape, what the hell do you, or any other nigger,
know about scholarship!
Read this McNig, it's what I've been telling you all along.
http://www.csudh.edu/dearhabermas/afrkhist.htm
And while you're at it read what a REAL NEGRO thinks about
Africoon-Americoons.
http://www.nextcity.com/main/town/7reading.htm
Give it up boy, you're just making you and your people look stupid,
just like this guy did here.
http://www.gospel-times.com/crosshistory.htm
What a fucking crock of bullshit.
elfatvis
<J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-05129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:,
> > > > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> > > > > Here are several sources for the African Negro
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> > >
> I checked and " Peterson " who is your main source is an unknown
> student who put that particular page together, and also who had no
> sources except to list Sharon Harley, Phd., who also has no sources.
>
> > > Mr. McGill, i was hoping i would find new information when i read
> > > your heading, but have been disappointed to find dead ends and no
> > > sources, and many discrepancies.
>
> > > BTW, Christobal Colón WAS the navigator and made all the
> > > navigational readings using an astrolabe and magnetic compass. He
> > > used to lie to the crew as to how far they had gone to avoid a
> > > mutiny. Christobal Colon was white, and now Mr. McGill says the
> > > ship had another navigator ?
>
> > Again
>
> " Again " ? And those are the same sources which have no sources
> that you tout as truth positive. I will try and help you, and once i
> find out from reliable sources i will post what i find here.
>
> Pero
> > Nino are the same name, the pilot (navigator) of the Santa Maria.
> >
> describe a pilot to be a " Navigator " , but maybe your dictionary is
> different than mine. Christobal Colon was the navigator and was not a "
> Negroid ".
navigate when entering or leaving a port.
http://www.sea-man.com/termsn-z.html#p
Pero Nino, pilot
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/crew.htm
Christopher Columbus departed on his first voyage from the port of
Palos (near Huelva) in southern Spain, on August 2, 1492, in command of
three ships: the Niña, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. His crew mostly
came from surrounding towns such as Lepe and Moguer.
http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/v1.htm
j_2000 Los Americanos http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> > America:
> > >
> > > http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> > >
> > > A good supplement to add to your library for a more well rounded view of
> > > history is this chronological timetable of important events and people in
> > > African American history.
You still tout " peterson " as being a reliable source, i checked
with wmc.edu and all they know is that a student named " peterson "
put that page together. Peterson sites Sharon Harley who in turn does
not
have any sources. Your other sources site the same page which has
NO sources.
Trying to pull the wool over ones eyes is not necessary...there
are many outstanding " Negroes "in this world, no need to grasp for
straws.
Chris
suggest you just do your usual and re-post the same crap over and over and
over again.
The problem is we white people aren't stupid like blacks. We don't start to
belive pure negroe paraniod bullshit just because it is repeated.
syn...@my-deja.com
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Dear sir,
> >
> > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
who
> > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
>
> The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> Africa in General.
I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes, they
are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
who comes from the north of Morocco.
Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
called one.
> >
> > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
> > other way around.
> > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
> > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
> > Ghana.
>
> And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
So what? but who is ruling the country?
>
> > 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
rest
> > of the tribe black as well.
>
> But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the
period
> of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
>
again so what? there have been many Black Moors as there have been Black
Arabs,Black British, Black French, but you cannot say that the
Arabs,British,French are Black.
> > 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
NOT
> > due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
Arabs
> > from Yemen(Argiculture)
>
> The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
> origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as
Black
> as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes,
and
> some probably as much as 1/3 or 1/2 African Negroid genes.
What about the rest, i.e. 5/6? does not that count for something? Just
because someone has 1/6 of african gene does not make them african or
negroid.
Do not play with statistics, it is a dangerous game.
>
> Yemen probably got their agriculture from Ethiopia.
> "Ethiopia, a country in East Africa ...was ONE OF THE EARLIEST WORLD
> CENTERS OF AGRICULTURAL INNOVATION ." - 1995 GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
> KNOWLEDGE
>
Yemen has always been an agricultural land, just check the Curan. Again
you are speculating by using the word PROBABLY which yet again a
dangerous game.
> > 5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the
south
> > and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse the
> > expression.
>
> Blacks during the Ancient Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay (which
> included Mauritania) from the 8th to the 16th Century during the time
of
> the Moorish & Arabic conquests of Spain were NOT slaves but were
rulers of
> a vast empire in Northwest Africa, that stretched from the Sudan to
the
> Atlantic and from North into the Sahara and south to Central Africa.
> Timbuktu the great learning center was there also during that time.
> Muslims and Europeans came to Timbuktu University to learn science.
>
Who were these people that ruled vast empire in Northwest Africa. As far
as the history of North Africa, the only people who ruled have always
been the berbers(Moors) and certainly they were not black.
> > 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
> > trade and they were used as soldiers.
>
> But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for thousands
of years.
But not North Africa. Maybe in the south of Mauritania and they are
called Haritins which means freed slaves.
>
> >
> > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
> > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
> > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > Africa/Spain.
>
> I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
Who are these other scholars? I would like to know
>
> >
> > Regards
>
> Likewise, kind regards.
Sir Osis of Dilivir
>Webster's 9th New Collegiate dictionary:
>Moor:[From latin Maurus inhabitant of Mauretania] (14c) word originated in
>the 14th century: One of the mixed Arab and Berber conquererors of Spain
>in the 8th century A.D.
The Latin "Maurus" actually referred to the ancient Roman province of
Mauretania (Morocco and Algeria north of the Atlas Mountains). The country
that is today called "Mauritania" is different from the ancient one.
fac...@my-deja.com
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <xyK%3.11837$5q.9...@news3.mia>, "Verner Roentgen"
> <x...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > I got to tell ya, these afrocentrist fairy tales have gotton so rediculous
> > I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get a good chuckle out
> > of them.
>
> FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
>
> Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
>
> Description of Appeal to Ridicule
>
> The Appeal to Ridicule is a fallacy in which ridicule or mockery is
> substituted for evidence in an "argument." This line of "reasoning" has
> the
> following form:
>
> 1.X, which is some form of ridicule is presented (typically directed
> at the claim).
> 2.Therefore claim C is false.
>
> Examples of Appeal to Ridicule
>
> 1."Sure my worthy opponent claims that we should lower tuition, but
> that is just laughable."
>
> 2."Support the ERA? Sure, when the women start paying for the drinks!
> Hah! Hah!"
>
> 3."Those wacky conservatives! They think a strong military is the key
> to peace!"
>
> This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking a claim does not
> show that it is false. This is especially clear in the following
> example: "1+1=2! That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!"
>
> It should be noted that showing that a claim is ridiculous through the use
> of legitimate methods (such as a non fallacious argument) can
> make it reasonable to reject the claim.
>
indulgent nonsense sounds? Hasn't it occurred to you that perhaps the
afrocentrist views ARE ridiculous and ARE in fact funny as a result of it?
Perhaps what is so amusing is that negroes do make ridiculous claims and
these claims can be shown to be ridiculous. Take for example you r stupid
assertion the negroes travelled back and forth to the American continent in
"god knows what" in the late 14 century. The evidence just isnt there is it.
The claim by Sertima ( a politicised negro) is ridiculous and funny. The
questin of "fallacy of Ridicule" simply doesn't arise. (by the way heard
anything about those enigmatic spears lately -thought not)
>
> >
> > M.McGill wrote in message ...
> > >Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/explorer to
> > America:
> > >
> > >http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
> > >
York:
> > >Simon & Schuster, 1995. ISBN 0-671-79524-4. Cost $35.00.
> > >
view of
> > >history is this chronological timetable of important events and people
in
> > >columns: general history, education, laws & legal actions, religion,
> > >literature & publications, arts, science ,technology & medicine and
> > >sports. Being a table the information is not very indepth but does
provide
> > >a place to start research. The table starts with 1492 when Pedro
Alonzo
> > >Nino navigated the Santa Maria and continues on up to the 1990s. It's
easy
> > >to use and provides additional information on any time period of
American
> > >history you happen to be covering in class. I would recommend it for
6th
> > >grade and up.
> > >-------------------------------------
> > >http://www.msstate.edu/listarchives/afrigeneas/199707/msg00582.html
> > >
> > >TIMETABLE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN HISTORY ....BY SHARON
> > > HARLEY PHD.
> > >
> > >1492
> > >
> > >America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives with
> > >the explorer Christopher Columbus.
> > >
> > >For information about Mississippi State University, contact
> > >msu...@ur.msstate.edu.
> > >---------------------------------------------
> > >http://twist.lib.uiowa.edu/aapoet/timeline1.html
> > >
> > >1492-1565 Africans accompanied explorers on expeditions to the
"New"
> > >World; for example, Pedro Alonzo Nino navigated for Columbus in
1492 and
> > >Nuflo de Olano and 29 other Africans accompanied Balboa in the
crossing of
> > >Panama. Others accompanied Desoto (1539) and Coronado (1540).
> > >-----------------------------------------------
> > >http://www.unityint.org/aahistory.htm
> > >
> > >In 1492, A black man named Pedro Alonzo Niño, sailed on
Christopher
> > >Columbus¹s ship on the first Spanish voyage to the new world.
Sailors of
> > >African ancestry are members of all the major Spanish expeditions to
the
> > >Americas, including Balboa, Ponce de León, Cortés, Pizarro, and
Menéndez.
>
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-05129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82e0p6$n72$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, j_2000
> > http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:,
> > > > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> <SNIP TO SAVE BANDWIDTH>
> >we see that Pero and Pedro are the same name. Pedro Nino and
> Pero
> > Nino are the same name, the pilot (navigator) of the Santa Maria.
> >
> My unabridged new twentieth century second edition does not
> describe a pilot to be a " Navigator " , but maybe your dictionary is
> different than mine. Christobal Colon was the navigator and was not a "
> Negroid ".
> --
Webster's 9th New Collegiate Dictionary:
Navigate: 2: to steer a course through a medium 2 a: to steer or manage (a
boat) in sailing
Pilot: one employed to steer a ship: HELMSMAN
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
fac...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <email-26119...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <xyK%3.11837$5q.9...@news3.mia>, "Verner Roentgen"
> > <x...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I got to tell ya, these afrocentrist fairy tales have gotton so
> > > rediculous I actually look forward to reading them. I usually get
> > > a good chuckle out of them.
> >
> > FALLACY OF RIDICULE.
> >
> > Also Known as: Appeal to Mockery, The Horse Laugh.
> >
> Perhaps what is so amusing is that negroes do make ridiculous claims
and
> these claims can be shown to be ridiculous. Take for example you r
stupid
> assertion the negroes travelled back and forth to the American
continent in
> "god knows what" in the late 14 century. The evidence just isnt there
is it.
> The claim by Sertima ( a politicised negro) is ridiculous and funny.
> >
> > >
> > > M.McGill wrote in message ...
> > > >Here are several sources for the African Negro navigator/
> > > >explorer to America:
> > > >
Mr. McGill, you have not listed sources for your claim. The
" Navigator " of the Santa Maria was Christobal Colon.
> > > >http://www.lib.wmc.edu/pub/bibs/peterson.html
The source you list at the wmc.edu link above " peterson "
is only a student who put the page together ( this is according to
wmc.edu ).
> > > >
> > > >Harley, Sharon. The Timetables of African American History. New
Sharon Harley does not list sources, and is the source who "
peterson " an unknown student uses in your other source.
--
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/defense.htm The Americans
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
> http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <email-03129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> >
> > > > > Pedro Alonzo Nino (Navigator) First person of color (Black) in
> > > > > America. Pedro was the navigator of the Santa Maria, arrives
> > > > > with the explorer Christopher Columbus.
The " Navigator " of the Santa Maria was Christobal Colon himself,
and was a white person.
> http://www1.minn.net/~keithp/crew.htm
This link does not refer to the " Navigator " of the Santa Maria
as " Negro ". Christobal Colon Was the " Navigator ".
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
>
> >SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO MOORS
> >
> Your picture came from the Book of Games of Alphonso X. If you want
to go
> by that (the whole thing, not just one picture), it shows that the
Muslims
> living in Spain were mostly white or light-skinned, with few
exceptions.
When traveling in Morocco i saw white people with a few " Negros "
and those few " Negros " were light, as you you say.
> See the following:
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/3154/Content3.htm
>
> For some reason, the author of the web page calls the many
light-skinned
> Muslims "Arabs", and the dark-skinned Muslims in one picture "Moors".
But
> usually, the word "Moors" referred to the Muslim population in
general.
>
> <snip>
> >SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO BERBER WOMEN
> >
> >Tuareg women commonly identified as Berbers
>
> A large part of the Tuareg population lives in Mali and Niger. Since
they
> mostly live far south of most other Berbers it is expected that they
would
> be quite a bit darker.
>
> <snip>
> >Mauritania (which means land of the Moors) is 4/5 Saharan, and is
mostly
> >Black (Negroid) Moors.
>
> The original Mauretania was a Roman province comprising the western
portion
> of modern Algeria and the northeastern portion of modern Morocco.
Like the
> term "Moors" itself, it meant different things at different times.
>
--
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> > Africa in General.
> >
>
> And Mr. Snon stated that.
>
> > >
> > > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
> > > other way around.
> > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
> > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
> > > Ghana.
> >
> > And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
> >
> Not even according to your own " sources " they are not.
WRONG.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
BLACK MOORS & BLACK AFRICANS OUTNUMBER WHITE MOORS.
------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
40% (Black Negro Moors) plus 30% (Black Non Muslim Africans) = 70% Negroid
country.
>
> > > 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
> rest
> > > of the tribe black as well.
> >
> > But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the
> period
> > of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
>
> Please post references, i can also show you pictures of white moors.
Man have you been following this thread closely?
(Sir Osis of Dilivir) wrote:
>SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO MOORS
>
Your picture came from the Book of Games of Alphonso X.
>
> >
> > > 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
> NOT
> > > due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
> Arabs
> > > from Yemen(Argiculture)
> >
> > The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
> > origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as
> Black
> > as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes,
>
> So they were mostly white ( this is according to your figures, 1/6 is
> less than 100 ). Mr. McGill you told the world that Ethiopians are
> mostly white according to your figures....this does not help your cause
> what ever that is.
A Distortion.
1. First of all I said at least 1/6th, you snipped the rest of what I said.
2. The other 5/6 or 2/3 or 1/2 is not white. it is a mixture of ethnic groups.
3. By United States state Laws 1/6 or 1/3 Negro blood makes you a Negro.
4. I said they were as Black as in Color but the Ethiopians are more
Negroid (with less admixture of other ethnic groups).
>
> > Yemen probably got their agriculture from Ethiopia.
> > "Ethiopia, a country in East Africa ...was ONE OF THE EARLIEST WORLD
> > CENTERS OF AGRICULTURAL INNOVATION ." - 1995 GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
> > KNOWLEDGE
> >
> You found an encylcopiedia which sites something you like, but
> discount the Britannica in a earlier post ?
Wrong. I snipped the Britannica to save bandwidth. I did not make any
comment on the Britannica. But yes we all chose different sources. Truth
or facts are not all contained within Encyclopedias.
>
>
> > > 5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the
> south
> > > and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse the
> > > expression.
> >
> > Blacks during the Ancient Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay (which
> > included Mauritania) from the 8th to the 16th Century during the time
> of
> > the Moorish & Arabic conquests of Spain were NOT slaves but were
> rulers of
> > a vast empire in Northwest Africa, that stretched from the Sudan to
> the
> > Atlantic and from North into the Sahara and south to Central Africa.
> > Timbuktu the great learning center was there also during that time.
> > Muslims and Europeans came to Timbuktu University to learn science.
> >
> > > 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the slave
> > > trade and they were used as soldiers.
> >
> > But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for thousands
> of years.
> >
> > >
> > > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
> > > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
> > > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > > Africa/Spain.
> >
> > I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
> >
> " Other scholars " ....the ones you cannot name as sources.
WRONG. Another distortion or lie. Here is the REPOST:
M.McGill
Dilivir) wrote:
True.
As was said earlier the word Moor applied to More (more/Moor pun) than
just Morocco, but also with North Africa (the Sahara) in General, which
included Caucasians and Negroids. Your viewpoint is that they were mostly
Caucasian. My viewpoint is they were probably aprox. half Negroid or at
least a substantial Negroid population, playing a significant role, rather
than insignificant. Moors were a mixed Muslim people mainly comprising
Caucasian Arabs and Negroid Mauritanians. Certain "Moors" were mainly
Caucasian, others were more Negroid, depending on which Muslim North
African (Saharan) Country they came from.
Some of the descendants of the Ancient Mauretanians live in (migrated) to
Mauritania. From Prehistoric to Ancient Times Negroid Mauritanians lived
alongside Caucasian Berbers and gradually they moved Southward. I am sure
there was some interbreeding also.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
MAURITANIA
HISTORY:
Tens of thousands of years ago, the Sahara regions were verdant
and filled with game. Archeological evidence suggest that Caucasoid
Berber and Negroid Mauritanians lived beside one another before
the spread of the desert drove them southward.
M.McGill
Dilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> The most famous geographer of Islamic Spain was al-Idrisi. Here's what he
> had to say about the black peoples...
>
> (from Bernard Lewis, Race and Slavery in the Middle East, 1990):
>
> "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds'
> to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of
> learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only
> acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of
> learned visitors from farther north."
>
>
> Ibn Khaldun, a medieval scholar who was born in Muslim North Africa
> (Tunisia), thought blacks weren't too bright:
>
> "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because
> [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that
> are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
>
> - Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah, 14th century AD
>
>
> Of course I don't agree with their opinions, but their statements would be
> highly unlikely if blacks were the "movers and shakers" of medieval Islamic
> society in N Africa and Spain.
These Arab comments about blacks in the in the 14th century sounds like
the comments that white racists make today, which are generalizations, in
most cases over-generalizations. Here are positive comments about Ancient
Blacks in Africa from White European Scholars who visited Africa in the
18th and early 20th Century:
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl4.html
"This race of black men... is the very race to which we owe our arts,
our sciences, and even the use of speech!" -wrote the amazed,
distinguished French scholar, Count C. Volney in 1787. Later he wrote
Ruins of Empires, abook which so delighted scholars of the day that it
was translated into English with a 'special edition' for the racist
Americans, in which the following quotation was left out: "There are a
people, now forgotten, discovered, while others were yet barbarians, the
elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men rejected now for their
black skin and woolly hair founded, on the study of the laws of Nature,
those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe."
---------------------------------
http://www.swt.edu/studentorg/kammaasi/afrstates.html
Guinea: the tree-lined streets of the city of vaida.
When they (European navigators) reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at
Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered
for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a
countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful
attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom
of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well
ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous
industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones...This flowering the
European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced.
Leo Frobenius, German ethnologist
http://www.scry.com/ayer/afro-am/4401185.htm
Frobenius, Leo
The Voice of Africa
Being an Account of the Travels of the German Inner African Exploration
Expedition in the Years 1910-1912
Professor Leo Frobenius (1873-1978) was a pioneer cultural anthropologist
and leader of the German Inner African Exploration Expedition. This
account follows the Expedition through the Sudan, the western coastal
regions, and into the equatorial sections in the center of the Dark
Continent. In this book from the group's travels between 1910 and 1912 the
evidence supports Frobenius' belief that the "only road to African
self-awareness and integrity is by a return to the roots of black
history."
LC 80-1673 788 pp., illus. 1913
ISBN: 0405085370 2vols. in 1, $57.95
http://206.155.164.149/ayer/afro-am/4415587.HTM
Frobenius, Leo and Douglas C. Fox
Prehistoric Rock Pictures in Europe and Africa From Material in the
Archives of the Research Institute for the Morphology of Civilization,
Frankfort-on-Main The work of the D. I. A. F. E. -- the German Inner
African Exploration Expedition -- field expeditions in Europe, the Near
East and Africa, began to reconstruct an intricate black culture that
preceeded Islam by one thousand years. It was a culture that white
colonial Europe never knew of and that an oppressed and half-destroyed
black Africa could not recall. In this volume, Professor Frobenius
outlines the fascinating origins of rock picture research dating to 1895.
LC 74-169302 84 pp., illus. 1937
ISBN: 0405015615 $20.95
M.McGill
Dilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> The most famous geographer of Islamic Spain was al-Idrisi. Here's what he
> had to say about the black peoples...
>
> (from Bernard Lewis, Race and Slavery in the Middle East, 1990):
>
> "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds'
> to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of
> learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only
> acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of
> learned visitors from farther north."
>
>
> Ibn Khaldun, a medieval scholar who was born in Muslim North Africa
> (Tunisia), thought blacks weren't too bright:
>
> "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because
> [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that
> are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
>
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
I would also like to know who " the scholars " are that
Mr. McGill mentions in the previous post.
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am
Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and
North
> > Africa in General.
>
> I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes,
they
> are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> who comes from the north of Morocco.
> Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> called one.
>
> > >
> > > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not
the
> > > other way around.
> > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called
sanhaja
> > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and
not
> > > Ghana.
> >
> > And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
>
> So what? but who is ruling the country?
> >
> > > 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
> rest
> > > of the tribe black as well.
> >
> > But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the
> period
> > of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
> >
> again so what? there have been many Black Moors as there have been
Black
> Arabs,Black British, Black French, but you cannot say that the
> Arabs,British,French are Black.
> > > 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
> NOT
> > > due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
> Arabs
> > > from Yemen(Argiculture)
> >
> > The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
> > origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as
> Black
> > as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes,
> and
> > some probably as much as 1/3 or 1/2 African Negroid genes.
>
> What about the rest, i.e. 5/6? does not that count for something? Just
> because someone has 1/6 of african gene does not make them african or
> negroid.
> Do not play with statistics, it is a dangerous game.
> >
> > Yemen probably got their agriculture from Ethiopia.
> > "Ethiopia, a country in East Africa ...was ONE OF THE EARLIEST WORLD
> > CENTERS OF AGRICULTURAL INNOVATION ." - 1995 GROLIER ENCYCLOPEDIA OF
> > KNOWLEDGE
> >
> Yemen has always been an agricultural land, just check the Curan.
Again
> you are speculating by using the word PROBABLY which yet again a
> dangerous game.
> > > 5. Blacks in Morocco have always been slaves, especially in the
> south
> > > and some old folks are still living with their "Masters",excuse
the
> > > expression.
> >
> > Blacks during the Ancient Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhay
(which
> > included Mauritania) from the 8th to the 16th Century during the
time
> of
> > the Moorish & Arabic conquests of Spain were NOT slaves but were
> rulers of
> > a vast empire in Northwest Africa, that stretched from the Sudan to
> the
> > Atlantic and from North into the Sahara and south to Central Africa.
> > Timbuktu the great learning center was there also during that time.
> > Muslims and Europeans came to Timbuktu University to learn science.
> >
>
> Who were these people that ruled vast empire in Northwest Africa. As
far
> as the history of North Africa, the only people who ruled have always
> been the berbers(Moors) and certainly they were not black.
> > > 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the
slave
> > > trade and they were used as soldiers.
> >
> > But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for
thousands
> of years.
>
> But not North Africa. Maybe in the south of Mauritania and they are
> called Haritins which means freed slaves.
> >
> > >
> > > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North
Africa
> > > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do
not
> > > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > > Africa/Spain.
> >
> > I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
>
> Who are these other scholars? I would like to know
> >
> > >
> > > Regards
> >
> > Likewise, kind regards.
> >
>
j_2000 http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks
> > Black
> > > as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid
genes,
> >
> > So they were mostly white ( this is according to your figures,
1/6 is
> > less than 100 ).
Mr. McGill you told the world that Ethiopians are
> > mostly white according to your figures....this does not help your
cause
> > what ever that is.
>
> A Distortion.
You distorted it, because i left your post as follows:
> 1. First of all I said at least 1/6th, you snipped the rest of what I
said.
> 2. The other 5/6 or 2/3 or 1/2 is not white. it is a mixture of ethnic
groups.
> 3. By United States state Laws 1/6 or 1/3 Negro blood makes you a
Negro.
> 4. I said they were as Black as in Color but the Ethiopians are more
> Negroid (with less admixture of other ethnic groups).
>
What you said and your sources are different. Again you
wrote 1/6th.. which is less than 100. ( 1/6 being negro and the rest
other than Negro ).
> I snipped the Britannica to save bandwidth. I did not make any
> comment on the Britannica. But yes we all chose different sources.
> Truth or facts are not all contained within Encyclopedias.
>
So far you have not provided sources... " peteson " was your main
source, and peteson uses " Sharon Phd who in turn does not provide
sources.
> > > >
> > > > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North
Africa
> > > > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do
not
> > > > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > > > Africa/Spain.
> > >
> > > I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
> > >
> > " Other scholars " ....the ones you cannot name as sources.
>
> WRONG. Another distortion or lie. Here is the REPOST:
Mr. Mcgill your main source to substantiate your claim was " peterson
" who is an unknown student, who give a source of someone who does not
give sources.
>
> A Racial Analysis of the Moors
I traveled in Morocco, and saw a country of white people, yes some
" Negoes ".
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <82il0h$uoq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> > em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > >
>
> I would also like to know who " the scholars " are that
> Mr. McGill mentions in the previous post.
>
> > > > Dear sir,
> > > >
> > > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am
> Moroccan
> > who
> > > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> > >
> > > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and
> North
> > > Africa in General.
> >
> > I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> > moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes,
> they
> > are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> > from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> > Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> > who comes from the north of Morocco.
> > Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> > called one.
> >
> > > >
> > > > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not
> the
> > > > other way around.
> > > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called
> sanhaja
> > > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and
> not
> > > > Ghana.
> > >
> > > And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
> >
> > So what? but who is ruling the country?
> > >
> > > > 3. Just because Yusuf ibn Tachafin was black, it does not make the
> > rest
> > > > of the tribe black as well.
> > >
> > > But there are several depictions of Black Moors in artwork from the
> > period
> > > of the Islamic conquests of Spain.
> > >
> > again so what? there have been many Black Moors as there have been
> Black
> > Arabs,Black British, Black French, but you cannot say that the
> > Arabs,British,French are Black.
> > > > 4. The introduction of Maths,Science and agriculture to Spain was
> > NOT
> > > > due to Moors but to Middle-eastern Arabs (Maths,Science) and other
> > Arabs
> > > > from Yemen(Argiculture)
> > >
> > > The Arabic (Hindu) numerals (including the concept of zero) had it's
> > > origin from the Malabar Coast of Southwest India who's people are as
> > Black
> > > as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid genes,
> > and
> > > some probably as much as 1/3 or 1/2 African Negroid genes.
> >
> > What about the rest, i.e. 5/6? does not that count for something?
The Remaininf 5/6 or less is of mixed ethnic genes.
> Just
> > because someone has 1/6 of african gene does not make them african or
> > negroid.
> > Do not play with statistics, it is a dangerous game.
According to State Law in the Uniteds States A person with 1/8 or 1/32
Negro blood would be considered Negro, or Negroid.
http://cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/03/election/ballots/interracial.marriage/
It took 103 years, but South Carolina has finally voted to remove a ban
on interracial marriage from its state constitution.
Although it was not actively enforced, a clause added to the
state's constitution in 1895 prohibited "marriage of a white person with a
Negro or mulatto or a person who shall have one-eighth or more of Negro
blood."
-------------------------------------
1/6 is more than 1/8, so by South Carolina State Law black or dark brown
Indians are Negroes.
According to some sources "having a little Negro blood in you, one little
teeny drop and you're Negro".
In 1982-83, Suzy Gilroy Phillips unsuccessfully sued LA board of vital
records to change her racial classification from black to white.
descendants of 18th century white planter and black slave, Phillips was
designated black on her birth certificate in accordance w/1970 state law
declaring anyone w/at least 1/32 Negro blood to be black.
http://www.affirmativeaction.net/edlawnotes6.htm
More west than North, but it included part of the Sahara. They were Black
Negro muslim rulers of Ghana, Mali and Songhay.
> > > > 6. Most blacks in Morocco were brought in during wars and the
> slave
> > > > trade and they were used as soldiers.
> > >
> > > But blacks have been Native to Mauritania and the Sahara for
> thousands
> > of years.
> >
> > But not North Africa. Maybe in the south of Mauritania and they are
> > called Haritins which means freed slaves.
Mauritania *IS* in North Africa.
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
MAURITANIA
HISTORY:
Tens of thousands of years ago, the Sahara regions were verdant
and filled with game. Archeological evidence suggest that Caucasoid
Berber and Negroid Mauritanians lived beside one another before
the spread of the desert drove them southward.
-----------
The Sahara *IS* North Africa and Negroids have lived there for thousands
of years.
Here you will see a map of NorthWest Africa and see Mauritania is near
Morocco, Algeria, and Mali in the Western Sahara:
http://www.emulateme.com/mauritania.htm
----------------------------------------------
http://www.emulateme.com/content/mauritania.htm
Mauritania
Location: Northern Africa, bordering the North Atlantic Ocean, between
Senegal and Western Sahara
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North
> Africa
> > > > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do
> not
> > > > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > > > Africa/Spain.
> > >
> > > I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
> >
> > Who are these other scholars? I would like to know
Go back and read mys previous posts, I believe you can figure it out for
yourself. One of them is Ivan Van Sertima.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > >
> > > Likewise, kind regards.
M.McGill
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks <J_Mart...@yahoo.com> wrote:
They came from present day Mauritania, the land of Moors, and a country
which has More Black Moors than white Moors and a country which is 70%
Negro or Negroid.
> > > >
> > > > And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
> > > >
> > > Not even according to your own " sources " they are not.
> >
> > WRONG.
You snipped my reply showing you were WRONG AGAIN, I will repost it:
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
BLACK MOORS & BLACK AFRICANS OUTNUMBER WHITE MOORS.
------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
40% (Black Negro Moors) plus 30% (Black Non Muslim Africans) = 70% Negroid
country.
> >
>
>
> > > Black
> > > > as Ethiopians, and they contain at least 1/6 African Negroid
> genes,
> > >
> > > So they were mostly white ( this is according to your figures,
> 1/6 is
> > > less than 100 ).
>
> Mr. McGill you told the world that Ethiopians are
> > > mostly white according to your figures....this does not help your
> cause
> > > what ever that is.
> >
> > A Distortion.
>
> You distorted it, because i left your post as follows:
>
> > 1. First of all I said at least 1/6th, you snipped the rest of what I
> said.
> > 2. The other 5/6 or 2/3 or 1/2 is not white. it is a mixture of ethnic
> groups.
> > 3. By United States state Laws 1/6 or 1/3 Negro blood makes you a
> Negro.
> > 4. I said they were as Black as in Color but the Ethiopians are more
> > Negroid (with less admixture of other ethnic groups).
> >
>
> What you said and your sources are different. Again you
> wrote 1/6th.. which is less than 100. ( 1/6 being negro and the rest
> other than Negro ).
According to United States state Laws 1/8 or 1/32 Negro is considered
Negro or Negroid. That's good enough for me, maybe not for you, but it is
good enough for the United States Law and myself (it was good enough for a
lot of white people who made the laws also).
>
> > I snipped the Britannica to save bandwidth. I did not make any
> > comment on the Britannica. But yes we all chose different sources.
> > Truth or facts are not all contained within Encyclopedias.
> >
> So far you have not provided sources... " peteson " was your main
> source, and peteson uses " Sharon Phd who in turn does not provide
> sources.
WRONG again.
See below for my "MAIN" sources.
> > > > >
> > > > > In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North
> Africa
> > > > > and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do
> not
> > > > > believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> > > > > Africa/Spain.
> > > >
> > > > I respect your opinion but other scholars disagree.
> > > >
> > > " Other scholars " ....the ones you cannot name as sources.
> >
> > WRONG. Another distortion or lie. Here is the REPOST:
>
> Mr. Mcgill your main source to substantiate your claim was " peterson
> " who is an unknown student, who give a source of someone who does not
> give sources.
There are two things being discussed here:
1. The pilot or navigator of the Santa maria ship.
2. The racial identity of the Moors.
My main source for number 1 was not peterson, it is:
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
One of the navigator's on Columbus' first voyage to America to America
was a black man named Pedro Alonzo Nino (Smithsonian Institute:5)
My main source for number 2 is:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
Sources and References
> I traveled in Morocco, and saw a country of white people, yes some
> " Negoes ".
As stated before the word Moor applies to more than Morocco. I asked you
if you had been to Mauritania (the land of Moors), you said no. Mauritania
is 70% Negro.
M.McGill
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> > Africa in General.
>
> I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes, they
> are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> who comes from the north of Morocco.
> Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> called one.
M.McGill
Frobenius in his "CIVILIZATION AFRICAINE:"
The idea of the barbarous African is a European invention which has
consequently prevailed in Europe until the beginning of the 19th century
and them some. Leo Frobenius; Historie de la Civilization Africaine.
M.McGill
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> > Africa in General.
>
> I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes, they
> are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> who comes from the north of Morocco.
> Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> called one.
>
>
elfatvis
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck...
Damn you are one hard headed coonboy, McGilla!
Sir Osis of Thilivir
>Africa is gradually on the rise:
>
>Even with AIDS and the fall-out from European colonialism there has been some good news coming out of Africa:
>
>The African Country of Eritrea is another great modern example:
<snip>
Actually Eritrea is ranked as the 8th least livable nation in the world,
according to the U.N.:
http://infoplease.lycos.com/ipa/A0778562.html
Barbados might be a better example (it's not in Africa, but it's 80% black,
with a 97% literacy rate, high income, etc.)
Sir Osis of Thilivir
Would this mean that Europeans are Negro also? Take a look at this:
(from http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jonmarks/6535.html)
"[A]ncestral Europeans are estimated to be an admixture of 65 % ancestral
Chinese and 35% ancestral Africans. "
Bowcock et al. (1991) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 88:840
"All Europeans are thought to be a hybrid population, with 65% Asian and 35%
African genes."
Time Magazine 1/16/95
This all goes to show, one can prove any point one wants, just by looking on
the internet. "Europeans are Negro? Sure, here's the URL..."
syn...@my-deja.com
> They came from present day Mauritania, the land of Moors, and a
country
> which has More Black Moors than white Moors and a country which is 70%
> Negro or Negroid.
Mauritania is the old name given to present-day Morocco and western
Algeria by the Romans. If you look at any Roman map of North Africa you
would see what I mean.
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
Thanks for the info, helpful.
M.McGill
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> > Africa in General.
>
> I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes, they
> are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> who comes from the north of Morocco.
> Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> called one.
In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called
> sanhaja
> > > > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and
> not
> > > > > Ghana.
They came from present day Mauritania, the land of Moors, and a country
M.McGill
of Thilivir) wrote:
> <snip>
> Would this mean that Europeans are Negro also? Take a look at this:
>
> (from http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jonmarks/6535.html)
>
> "[A]ncestral Europeans are estimated to be an admixture of 65 % ancestral
> Chinese and 35% ancestral Africans. "
> Bowcock et al. (1991) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 88:840
>
> "All Europeans are thought to be a hybrid population, with 65% Asian and 35%
> African genes."
> Time Magazine 1/16/95
>
>
> This all goes to show, one can prove any point one wants, just by looking on
> the internet. "Europeans are Negro? Sure, here's the URL..."
Or in this case looking in the National Academy of Science & Time Magazine.
Interesting. National Academy of Science and Time are respected sources.
About race:
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl7.html
All races were born from the Black race. Science reports that everyone
alive today descended from an African woman who lived 200,000, years ago!
Based on the evidence of recent findings, modern (white) science has
'officially' declared that ALL of present humanity came from one race...
the Black race -the oldest race. Throughout the world prominent
magazines have done front page articles on "the most incredible find of
all times: Scientists have unearthed the ancient bones of a Black African
[pygmy] woman who is indisputably the mother of all humanity!" They
nicknamed her [Mitochondrial] Eve"... our common ancestor - a woman who
lived 200,000 years ago and left resilent genes that are carried by all of
mankind" reports the best-selling issue ever of Newsweek magazine
(1/11/88) which depicts
a Black Adam and Eve on its front cover headlining it The Search for Adam
and Eve. Science magazine (9/11/87) states that overwhelming evidence
shows that "Africa was the cradle of modern humans... The story the
molecular biology seems to be telling is that modern humans evolved in
Africa about 200,000 years ago." National Geographic (Oc. 88) reports of
new evidence " of an African orgin for modern humans."
http://www.firstcut.com/9906/n1.html
Dr. Sylvia Spengler is a geneticist at UC Berkele.
Sylvia Spengler is part of the human genome project, where scientists
around the world are trying to map the location and function of every gene
in the human body. She has the viewpoint of most geneticists today: that
"race" has no real meaning in science.
"Trying to mix genetics with race is, to my mind, inappropriate. Cannot be
done," she says. "...Race is something we do to each other; it has nothing
to do with what our DNA does to us."
M.McGill
> In article <email-06129...@cx766739-a.fed1.sdca.home.com>,
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> > In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > Dear sir,
> > >
> > > Just to avoid any problems I would like to state that I am Moroccan
> who
> > > studied the history of Morocco with care. Thank you...
> >
> > The Moorish history is more than Morocco, mainly Mauritania and North
> > Africa in General.
>
> I am afraid I have to disagree with you. All of the capitals of the
> moroccan dynasties were in Morocco, as Fez, Marrakesh,Rabat,Meknes, they
> are all in the north of Morocco. And all of the dynasties came
> from within the boundries of present-day Morocco except the
> Mourabitin, but then again they are part of the Sanhaja tribe
> who comes from the north of Morocco.
> Mauritania did not even exist as a state in those days let alone be
> called one.
Berber Muslim dynasty that ruled Morocco and Muslim Spain in the 11th
and 12th cent. The Almoravids may have originated in what is now
Mauritania[FROM MAURITANIA-PRESENT DAY-NOW]
http://kids.infoplease.com/ce5/CE033421.html
Encyclopedia
Almoravids
Pronunciation: [almôr´uvidz] (key)
Berber Muslim dynasty that ruled Morocco and Muslim Spain in the 11th
and 12th cent. The Almoravids may have originated in what is now
Mauritania. The real founder was Abd Allah ibn Yasin, who by military
force converted a number of Saharan tribes to his own reformed religion
and then advanced on Morocco. After his death (c.1059), Yusuf ibn
Tashfin and his brother Abu Bakr came to power. Marrakesh was founded in
1062 and was the center of a powerful empire. Called by the Moors in
Spain to help stem Christian reconquest, Yusuf entered Andalusia and
defeated (1086) Alfonso VI of Castile. He later subdued the local Muslim
rulers and governed Muslim Spain and N Morocco (Abu Bakr ruling over S
Morocco). The dynasty also pushed south, destroying the ancient state of
Ghana. The Almoravids were rough and puritanical, contemptuous of the
luxurious Muslim courts in Spain. Their rule was never entirely stable
and in the 12th cent. was attacked by the Almohads, who finally (by
1174) won both Morocco and Muslim Spain.
The Columbia Encyclopedia, Fifth Edition Copyright ©1993, Columbia
University Press.
>
>
> > >
> > > 1. it was the Abbassyd who took over from the Ummayyids and not the
> > > other way around.
> > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called sanhaja
> > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and not
> > > Ghana.
Above you state they came from "present-day Mauritania".
> >
> > And Most of Mauritania is Black Moors and Black Africans.
>
> So what? but who is ruling the country?
White Moors.
http://www.bsos.umd.edu/cidcm/mar/rimblm.htm
The country is ruled politically and economically by White Moors who have
dominated the country since independence from France.
The Black Moors are mainly the former slaves of the White Moors, though
some families were never enslaved. [REPEAT - SOME BLACK MOOR FAMILIES WERE
NEVER ENSLAVED].
Mauritania encompasses two distinct cultural civilizations-Arabic and
black African, and the Black Moors consider themselves more Arab than
African. In fact, the terms White and Black Moor convey a false dichotomy
as some White Moors are very dark skinned and vice versa. What matters is
family lineage and the history of the groups, not the actual color of
their skin. Interaction
between the different groups is based mainly on the economics of the
country. The Black Moors are disadvantaged economically and politically in
Mauritania, and they have very few options to redress their grievances.
> >
> <snip>
> Who were these people that ruled vast empire in Northwest Africa. As far
> as the history of North Africa, the only people who ruled have always
> been the berbers(Moors) and certainly they were not black.
According to Roman documents, among the Berbers were the "black Gaetuli
and black-skinned Asphodelodes." Harold A. MacMicheal pointed out that
African Blacks such as the Tibbu and Tuwarek, resembling the ancient
Nigiritians of the Sahara, are Lamta Berbers by origin. The Haratin of
Morocco and Mauritania have also been called "Black Berbers."
SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO BERBER WOMEN
Tuareg women commonly identified as Berbers
Courtesy of National Geographic Magazine
The Berber clans that were most instrumental in the Moorish conquest of
Spain were the Nafza, Masmuda, Luwata, Hawwara, Zanata, Sanhadja and
Zugwaha. Writing of the women of the Berber clan the Sanhadja
confederation a Muslim scholar states, "Their color is black, though some
pale ones can be found among them."
There are obviously Black as well as Caucasian Berbers, the former seeming
to be the most original. Dana Reynolds (Ethnohistorian) states the
following:
"It is unfortunate, for these men and women belonged to a 'black'
population whose time predates the Muslim invasion of North Africa. They
are a people whose
documented history goes back in North Africa to the time of the Pharaohs
and the phase of Carthaginian history that produced Hannibal. Most books
that attempt to speak of 'Berber' origins (though the Moors were not just
the Berbers) claim that they were 'whites' affiliated biologically with
European like those who live in the Atlas Mountains and close to the
Mediterranean today."
Turning once again to the European literature of the age, in the Romance
of El Cid some of the Berber women, Almoravids, are described. A "black
Moorish woman" named Nugaymath Turquia is said to lead a contingent of 300
Black Moorish "Amazons." They are described as "negresses" with their
heads shaven, leaving a topknot. According to text:
King Bucar ordered that black Moorish woman to encamp nearest to the town
with all her companyŠ That Moorish woman was so shrewd a master archer
with the Turkish bow that it was a wonder to behold, and for that reason
(the History) says that the Moors called her in Arabic nugaymath turquia,
which means 'star of the archers of Turkey.'
Thus it can be seen that the term Berber in regards to race is somewhat of
a misnomer. Rather it most likely refers to a language or ethnic group
that transcends a racial monotype.
><snip>
M.McGill
> >
> <snip>
> Who were these people that ruled vast empire in Northwest Africa. As far
> as the history of North Africa, the only people who ruled have always
> been the berbers(Moors) and certainly they were not black.
Here is the URL:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
Sir Osis of Thilivir
> In article <384ebcd4...@news.alt.net>, em...@domain.com (Sir Osis
>of Thilivir) wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>> >>
>> >>
>> Would this mean that Europeans are Negro also? Take a look at this:
>>
>> (from http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jonmarks/6535.html)
>>
>> "[A]ncestral Europeans are estimated to be an admixture of 65 % ancestral
>> Chinese and 35% ancestral Africans. "
>> Bowcock et al. (1991) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 88:840
>>
>> "All Europeans are thought to be a hybrid population, with 65% Asian and 35%
>> African genes."
>> Time Magazine 1/16/95
>>
>>
>> This all goes to show, one can prove any point one wants, just by looking on
>> the internet. "Europeans are Negro? Sure, here's the URL..."
>
>Or in this case looking in the National Academy of Science & Time Magazine.
>
>Interesting. National Academy of Science and Time are respected sources.
>
I have no argument with those sources, but my point was this:
You said the southwest Indians have "1/6 Negroid genes" or whatever, and
that, to you, counts as being "black." But since Europeans purportedly have
35% African genes, does that mean Europeans are black too? Please clarify
this for us.
>About race:
>
>http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl7.html
>All races were born from the Black race. Science reports that everyone
>alive today descended from an African woman who lived 200,000, years ago!
>
>Based on the evidence of recent findings, modern (white) science has
>'officially' declared that ALL of present humanity came from one race...
>the Black race -the oldest race.
Sure humanity descended from a parent race that lived in Africa, but how do
you know that race was black? Is there some kind of evidence of the
original man's skin color or hair shape?
What your source (black ed) is essentially saying is:
- Europeans originally came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, their
appearance has changed.
- Asians originally came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, their
appearance has changed.
- Africans came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, they look the same as
they always did.
So my question is, why would the physical appearance of Africans stay the
same for 100,000 years, if everyone else's appearance has changed? Isn't it
possible that the "original race" looked different from all modern races,
including Africans?
>Throughout the world prominent
>magazines have done front page articles on "the most incredible find of
>all times: Scientists have unearthed the ancient bones of a Black African
>[pygmy] woman who is indisputably the mother of all humanity!" They
>nicknamed her [Mitochondrial] Eve"... our common ancestor - a woman who
>lived 200,000 years ago and left resilent genes that are carried by all of
>mankind" reports the best-selling issue ever of Newsweek magazine
>(1/11/88) which depicts
>a Black Adam and Eve on its front cover headlining it The Search for Adam
>and Eve.
I saw the "Time" cover as a child. Actually the Adam and Eve portrayed on
the cover looked "multiracial" rather than fully black or fully white or
fully anything else.
Sir Osis of Thilivir
But in the Book of Games of Alphonso X, the Muslims in Spain are portrayed
as white/light-skinned. There is only one picture of dark-skinned Muslims.
fac...@my-deja.com
em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
> In article <384ebcd4...@news.alt.net>, em...@domain.com (Sir
Osis
> of Thilivir) wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > (from http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~jonmarks/6535.html)
> >
> > "[A]ncestral Europeans are estimated to be an admixture of 65 %
ancestral
> > Chinese and 35% ancestral Africans. "
> > Bowcock et al. (1991) Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 88:840
> >
> > "All Europeans are thought to be a hybrid population, with 65% Asian
and 35%
> > African genes."
> > Time Magazine 1/16/95
> >
> >
> > This all goes to show, one can prove any point one wants, just by
looking on
> > the internet. "Europeans are Negro? Sure, here's the URL..."
>
> Or in this case looking in the National Academy of Science & Time
Magazine.
>
> Interesting. National Academy of Science and Time are respected
sources.
>
>
> http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl7.html
> All races were born from the Black race. Science reports that everyone
> alive today descended from an African woman who lived 200,000, years
ago!
>
> Based on the evidence of recent findings, modern (white) science has
> 'officially' declared that ALL of present humanity came from one race...
> magazines have done front page articles on "the most incredible find of
> all times: Scientists have unearthed the ancient bones of a Black African
> [pygmy] woman who is indisputably the mother of all humanity!" They
> nicknamed her [Mitochondrial] Eve"... our common ancestor - a woman
who
> lived 200,000 years ago and left resilent genes that are carried by all of
> mankind" reports the best-selling issue ever of Newsweek magazine
> (1/11/88) which depicts
> a Black Adam and Eve on its front cover headlining it The Search for
Adam
> shows that "Africa was the cradle of modern humans... The story the
> molecular biology seems to be telling is that modern humans evolved in
> Africa about 200,000 years ago." National Geographic (Oc. 88) reports
of
> new evidence " of an African orgin for modern humans."
>
The above remarks are simply ridiculous in many area. First , modern man
didn't emerge until the upper pleistocene (ie. about 50,000 years "before
present"). Second, while all humanity may have evolved from some sort of
hominid which inhabited tracts of Africa, this species cannot be labelled
"the black race" -it was, as noted some sort of early hominid probably with
ape like characterisitcs, a low intellignece and without human language. I
suspect the cranila capacity was around 500 cm3. You cannot assert the
"black race is the oldest race" unless you can show that this mit. Eve was a
representative of the present day "black race". This would in effect require
tyo to argue that negroes (black race?) hadn't evolved in physiological
terms during the last 200,000 years. (regards facts 21)
> http://www.firstcut.com/9906/n1.html
>
> Dr. Sylvia Spengler is a geneticist at UC Berkele.
> Sylvia Spengler is part of the human genome project, where scientists
> around the world are trying to map the location and function of every
gene
> in the human body. She has the viewpoint of most geneticists today: that
> "race" has no real meaning in science.
>
> "Trying to mix genetics with race is, to my mind, inappropriate. Cannot be
> done," she says. "...Race is something we do to each other; it has nothing
> to do with what our DNA does to us."
>
M.McGill
> > They came from present day Mauritania, the land of Moors, and a
> country
> > which has More Black Moors than white Moors and a country which is 70%
> > Negro or Negroid.
>
> Mauritania is the old name given to present-day Morocco and western
> Algeria by the Romans. If you look at any Roman map of North Africa you
> would see what I mean.
>
>
I know that. That has already been discussed. BUT the land of Present day
Mauritania is the origin of many of the Moors. THats how Mauritania got
it's name, from Moors [From latin Maur-us].
Berber Muslim dynasty that ruled Morocco and Muslim Spain in the 11th
and 12th cent. The Almoravids may have originated in what is now
Mauritania [FROM MAURITANIA-PRESENT DAY-NOW]
http://kids.infoplease.com/ce5/CE033421.html
Encyclopedia
Almoravids
Pronunciation: [almôr´uvidz] (key)
Berber Muslim dynasty that ruled Morocco and Muslim Spain in the 11th
and 12th cent. The Almoravids may have originated in what is now
Mauritania.
--------------------------------------
http://www.dollarsavertravel.com/pages/world_pages/africa/mauritania.html
ABOUT MAURITANIA
Mauritania is an Islamic state, and its formal country name
is - the Islamic Republic of Mauritania. It is the place in Africa where
the western edge of the Sahara desert meets the Atlantic Ocean.
THE MOORS
During the expedition, you will meet the inhabitants of this
terrain, the hospitable nomadic Moors, who are always ready to lay a
welcome mat for you to sit on and a bowl of fresh milk to drink. The men
look like biblical personages in their traditional flowing blue kaftans
and black turbans, pointed black beards and deep-set eyes. The women are
splashes of brightness with their multicolored cloaks. These Moors,
after whom the nation is named, are the dominant ethnic group.
The oasis of Azoughui was the Almoravid capital in the 11th- and
12th-centuries, and remnants of fortified buildings still stands to be seen.
----------------------------------------
In article <82g1uf$2he$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > > > > 2. The Murrabitin are originally from a berber tribe called
> sanhaja
> > > > > which occupied a big chunk of southern morocco and according to
> > > > > our(moroccan) history, they cam from present-day Mauritania and
> not
> > > > > Ghana.
They came from present day Mauritania, the land of Moors, and a country
which has More Black Moors than white Moors and a country which is 70%
Negro or Negroid.
----------------------------------------
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
BLACK MOORS & BLACK AFRICANS OUTNUMBER WHITE MOORS.
------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
40% (Black Negro Moors) plus 30% (Black Non Muslim Africans) = 70% Negroid
country.
-------------------------------------------------
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
1. Well some people saw we are all black (Negroid).
2. Some say there are no "pure" races, we are all mixed.
2. Some say we are all the same race, or that their really isn't such
thing as race.
http://di-145c.mit.edu/racesci/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/index.shtml
What DNA Says About Human Ancestry-- and Bigotry
Part 3, The Myth of Race
-----------------------------------------
http://www.firstcut.com/9906/n1.html
Dr. Sylvia Spengler is a geneticist at UC Berkele.
Sylvia Spengler is part of the human genome project, where scientists
around the world are trying to map the location and function of every gene
in the human body. She has the viewpoint of most geneticists today: that
"race" has no real meaning in science.
"Trying to mix genetics with race is, to my mind, inappropriate. Cannot be
done," she says. "...Race is something we do to each other; it has nothing
to do with what our DNA does to us."
--------------------------------------
Any one or combination of the 3 above would show that Europeans
(Caucasians) and Africans (Negroids) and East Indians (Asians) are the
same under the skin (in genetics).
>
>
> >About race:
> >
> >http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl7.html
> >All races were born from the Black race. Science reports that everyone
> >alive today descended from an African woman who lived 200,000, years ago!
> >
> >Based on the evidence of recent findings, modern (white) science has
> >'officially' declared that ALL of present humanity came from one race...
> >the Black race -the oldest race.
>
> Sure humanity descended from a parent race that lived in Africa, but how do
> you know that race was black? Is there some kind of evidence of the
> original man's skin color or hair shape?
>
> What your source (black ed) is essentially saying is:
>
> - Europeans originally came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, their
> appearance has changed.
>
> - Asians originally came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, their
> appearance has changed.
>
> - Africans came from Africa, but after 100,000 years, they look the same as
> they always did.
>
> So my question is, why would the physical appearance of Africans stay the
> same for 100,000 years, if everyone else's appearance has changed?
Because of climate and environment. Africans stayed in the same climate
and environment. Europeans and Asians moved to a different climate &
environment.
Nature & Evolution would have produced a Negro in the Area of East Africa
where the first humans came from. In the tropical equatorial regions where
the sun is shining directly on the tropic of Cancer, Capricorn and Equator
the heat will produce melanin (dark pigmented skin), and the searing heat
from the Equator will eventually make the hair coarse and coil up to
protect the skull.
> Isn't it
> possible that the "original race" looked different from all modern races,
> including Africans?
More likely the Original race looked like a African Negro, because of
environment and climate. The Negroid features are the ones that are the
most adaptable and harmonious with the Tropical Equatorial climate and
environment of East Africa.
>
>
> >Throughout the world prominent
> >magazines have done front page articles on "the most incredible find of
> >all times: Scientists have unearthed the ancient bones of a Black African
> >[pygmy] woman who is indisputably the mother of all humanity!" They
> >nicknamed her [Mitochondrial] Eve"... our common ancestor - a woman who
> >lived 200,000 years ago and left resilent genes that are carried by all of
> >mankind" reports the best-selling issue ever of Newsweek magazine
> >(1/11/88) which depicts
> >a Black Adam and Eve on its front cover headlining it The Search for Adam
> >and Eve.
>
> I saw the "Time" cover as a child. Actually the Adam and Eve portrayed on
> the cover looked "multiracial" rather than fully black or fully white or
> fully anything else.
Anything like the picture from this URL below?
http://di-145c.mit.edu/racesci/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/index.shtml
M.McGill
supposed to be mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often
used for negro."
http://www.wanonline.com/blackhistory/blackhistory5974.html
Although scholars generally agree that the word Moor is derived from Mauri
there are profound disagreements among historian authors on what the word
originally meant and how it was applied.
Anthropologist [and Ethnohistorian], Dana Reynolds traced the African
roots of the original North African peoples through a dozen Greek and
Byzantine (neo-Roman writers) from the first to the sixth century A.D.
"They describe the Berber population of Northern Africa as black-skinned
and woolly-haired."
Among these writers who wrote about the Berbers were Martial, Silius
Italicus, Corippus and Procopius. "The original Black Berbers called
Moors, were the North African ancestors of the present day dark-brown and
brown-black peoples of the Sahara and the Sahel, mainly those called
Fulani, Tugareg, Zenagha of Southern Morocco, Kunta and Tebbu of the Sahel
countries, as well as other black arabs now living in Mauretania and
throughout the Sahel-- the include the Trarza of Mauretania [Mauritania]
and Senegal, the Mogharba as well as dozens of other Sudanese tribes, the
Chaamba of Chad and Algeria."
The "Moorish" people, as the Blacks were described in the pre-Islamic era
were noted for their skin color by such descriptive phrases as "black as
melted pitch" and "blacker than ink" quoted Van Sertima in his book
"Golden Age of the Moor".
M.McGill
The Oldest Modern humans have been found in Sub-Sahara Africa.
> Second, while all humanity may have evolved from some sort of
> hominid
It was Homo sapiens sapiens (Modern Man) not just a Hominid.
> which inhabited tracts of Africa, this species cannot be labelled
> "the black race"
The ealiest Modern Humans have been found in Sub-Sahara Africa. They are
Homo sapiens sapiens, and having adapted to the Equatorial Climate and
environment would have been Negroid.
> -it was, as noted some sort of early hominid probably with
> ape like characterisitcs, a low intellignece and without human language. I
> suspect the cranila capacity was around 500 cm3. You cannot assert the
> "black race is the oldest race" unless you can show that this mit. Eve was a
> representative of the present day "black race". This would in effect require
> tyo to argue that negroes (black race?) hadn't evolved in physiological
> terms during the last 200,000 years. (regards facts 21)
Maybe this will help you:
http://www.as.ua.edu/ant/bindon/ant101/syllabus/mod_hum/mod_hum.htm
Cann and her colleagues collected mitochondrial (mtDNA) data from numerous
populations, examined base sequence information, and produced phylogenetic
trees asserting an African root
Genetic variability shows the greatest amount of diversity in sub-Saharan
African populations
High variability suggests that the African populations have been
accumulating genetic mutations for the longest time--i.e., they are the
oldest living populations.
-----------------------------------------
http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/scitech/011299/fossil.sml
Scientists Find 5 Million-Year-Old Ape-Man In Ethiopia
11.29 a.m. ET (1629 GMT) January 12, 1999
ADDIS ABAB Ñ Scientists Monday said they had found fossilized remains in
Ethiopia of what appeared to be a five-million-year-old ape-man, the
oldest specimen yet discovered anywhere in the world.
Tim White, from the University of California in Berkeley and leader of a
13-nation paleontological team, told Reuters further studies were required
to confirm the fossil was indeed an ancestor of modern man, but was
nevertheless enthusiastic.
"The discovery quite clearly demonstrates Africa is the true origin of
modern humans," he said. "(But) further extensive studies are needed to
officially establish the origin
of man at five million years."
---------------------------------------
http://www.linfield.edu/~mrobert/origins.html
Models of the origin and dispersal of modern humans:
The oldest modern humans are found in Africa, and are dated about 130
kya. They clearly evolved from local African populations of Homo
erectus. All paleoanthropologists agree that such local evolution had to
occur in at least one place, but the argument about the origins of modern
groups of
humans centers on what happened next.
The Fossil Evidence
We will investigate the evidence for both sides in this very interesting
conflict, but first we will look at the earliest remains of Homo sapiens
in Africa and the timing of their appearance in other locations throughout
the Old World.
Africa
Omo
Thick skull, but modern in shape; chin present, limb bones similar to
today's east Africans. Could be as old as 130 kya.
Kabwe (Rhodesian Man)
(Figure 7) Similar to Omo, also modern in shape; cranial capacity about
1300 cc. Date uncertain, but is at least 125 kya.
Border Cave and Klasies River Mouth
Bones are fragmentary, but show modern features though fairly large
size; fire present. Dates are uncertain, but range from 80 to 130 kya.
Jebel Irhoud
Robust bones with both modern and archaic features. Date of 100 to 200
kya.
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
> >In article <384bb910...@news.alt.net>, em...@domain.com (Sir Osis of
> >Dilivir) wrote:
> >
> >> X-No-Archive: yes
> >>
> >> The most famous geographer of Islamic Spain was al-Idrisi. Here's what he
> >> had to say about the black peoples...
> >>
> >> (from Bernard Lewis, Race and Slavery in the Middle East, 1990):
> >>
> >> "The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes 'lack of knowledge and defective minds'
> >> to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of
> >> learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their
kings only
> >> acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of
> >> learned visitors from farther north."
> >>
> >>
> >> Ibn Khaldun, a medieval scholar who was born in Muslim North Africa
> >> (Tunisia), thought blacks weren't too bright:
> >>
> >> "Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because
> >> [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that
> >> are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated."
> >>
> >> - Ibn Khaldun, Muqaddimah, 14th century AD
> >>
> >>
> >> Of course I don't agree with their opinions, but their statements would be
> >> highly unlikely if blacks were the "movers and shakers" of medieval Islamic
> >> society in N Africa and Spain.
> >
> >These Arab comments about blacks in the in the 14th century
>
> (Actually al-Idrisi lived during the 12th century, Ibn Khaldun during the
> 14th.)
>
> >sounds like
> >the comments that white racists make today, which are generalizations, in
> >most cases over-generalizations.
>
> Yes, that is the point. White racists today make such comments because they
> observe the current state of most Africans living today, and misinterpret it
> to mean Africans are unintelligent. Likewise, ancient Arabs made such
> comments because black Africa was relatively barbarous compared to the more
> advanced state of civilization elsewhere in the Islamic world.
Here are some Advanced ancient black Africans, in some cases more advanced
than Europeans.
http://tc.unl.edu/tcforum/nott.3.html
The Origins of Smelting
"More than 1500 years ago, Africans in the vicinity of Lake Victoria
"produced carbon steel in preheated forced-draft furnaces, a method that
was technologically more sophisticated than any developed in Europe
until the mid-nineteenth century" (Shore, 1991)."
-----------------------------------
http://jfa-www.bu.edu/Abstracts/S/SchmidtP_10_4.html
Peter R. Schmidt assisted by D. H. Avery
More Evidence for an Advanced Prehistoric Iron Technology in Africa
Journal of Field Archaeology 10 (1983) 421--434
"These discoveries affirm that one of the most advanced technologies
in the ancient world developed in Africa independent of European
influence."
-----------------------------
http://www.mrdowling.com/609-zimbabwe.html
Zimbabwe: the cyclopean architectural style.
European explorers discovered vast stone ruins of the Karanga in 1867.
The site was called Zimbabwe, which means ³stone dwelling² in the native
Bantu language. The Europeans were unwilling to believe that sub-Saharan
Africans could have built Zimbabwe; they theorized that ancient
Phoenicians, Arabs, Romans, or Hebrews created the structures.
Excavations in 1932 proved that the indigenous Africans created the
ruins, but the white colonial government of Rhodesia attempted to deny
the site¹s African genesis. The Karanga people ruled a great inland
African empire from about AD1000 to AD1600. The Karanga were great
traders smelted gold and traded it on the shores of the Indian Ocean for
glas beads and porcelain from China.
Ghana
The earliest of these states, Ghana, came into being by the 5th century
AD in what is now southeastern Mauritania. Its capital, Kumbi Saleh, has
been excavated in modern times. By the 11th century, the armies of
Ghana, equipped with iron weapons, made it master of the trade routes
extending from present-day Morocco in the north to the coastal forests
of western Africa in the south.
-----------------------------------
Between 3100 BC and 700 BC Nubians, Kushites, and Ethiopians had
established kingdoms (civilization), when germanic tribes hunted in the
woods (hunter gatherers).
http://www.buck.com/cntry-cd/bgnotes/et.htm
Ethiopia is the oldest independent country in Africa and one of the oldest
in the world. Herodotus, the Greek historian of the fifth century BC,
describes ancient Ethiopia in his writings.
-----------------------------------
http://www.ethiopiafirst.com/RIGHT1.HTML
Ethiopians are: " THE BLAMELESS RACE "
Homer (Greek poet of the 8th century B.C.)
Ethiopians are: " THE MOST JUST MEN"
Herodotus (Greek historian, 485-425 B.C.)
Ethiopia : " A COUNTRY WHEREIN NO ONE IS WRONGED: A LAND OF RIGHTEOUSNESS"
Prophet Muhammed
History has it that when the early followers of the Prophet Mohammed were
denied the right to pursue their religion, and were harshly persecuted by
the mercantile rulers of Makkah. He pointed to the kingdom and said:
" Yonder lieth a country wherein no one is wronged: a land of
righteousness. Depart thither and remain until it pleased the lord to open
your way before you."
--------------------------------------
Barbaric Germanic tribes hunting in the woods and at war with each other.
Check out the Germanic tribes at:
http://www.npcts.edu/acad/history/WebChron/WestEurope/GermanicTribes.html
During the third and fourth centuries, there were large migrations of
land-hungry Germans southward and westward onto the Rhine-Danube Frontier.
The basic Germanic political structure was the tribe, headed by a chief
who was elected for his ability as a war leader. It was these tribes that
resulted in Rome's losing control of the great frontier. The Roman and
Germanic cultures greatly clashed. The Germanic religion was polytheistic,
their society was a warrior aristocracy, and finally their societal
structure was a mobile one. By 370 A.D., the tribe had become nations led
by a warrior king. It was at this time that the Huns swept out of central
Asia westward in which they encountered two Germanic nations of Visigoths
and Ostrogoths. This was the spark of many years of invasions and warfare
that provoked the downfall of the Roman controlled frontier. The following
information describes some of the Germanic tribes such as Franks,
Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Huns, Burgundians, Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths,
Vandals and Lombards.
The Visigoths, also known as the Goths, were a barbaric tribe.
The period between 406 and 572 saw the Germanic barbarians complete their
migrations into the West. It is undoubtedly one of history's most hectic
and confusing periods of time.
The Vandals were a Germanic tribe of Jutland (now in Denmark), who
migrated to the valley of the Odra (Oder) River about the 5th century BC.
During the 2nd and 3rd centuries AD they settled along the Danube River.
This is approximately when they began their conquests over Rome. Today's
usage of the word "vandal" reflects the dread and hostility the tribe
precipitated in other people, especially the Romans, by their LOOTing and
pillaging of the many villages they conquered.
>
>
>
> >Here are positive comments about Ancient
> >Blacks in Africa from White European Scholars who visited Africa in the
> >18th and early 20th Century:
> >
>
> I think that in judging the level of civilization of pre-colonial
> sub-Saharan Africa, the testimony of the Arabs would be more reliable than
> the romantic speculation of Leo Frobenius. Remember, Frobenius also
> believed in Atlantis and other far-out ideas. Basically his theories were
> little more than outlandish speculations, and this why he isn't taken
> seriously today (except by Afrocentrists who think they can get good mileage
> out of his quotes).
Arabs also believed in Genies (Jinn)
Webster's 7th New Collegiate Dictionary:
Jinni [Arabic jinniy demon] (1684) :one of a class os spirits that
according to Muslim demonology inhabit the earth, asume various forms, and
excercise supernatural power.
-------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/3368/jinn.html
Jinn € Djinn € Genie (singular)
Demon-like beings of Arabic mythology
----------------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/3951/jinn.html
In the Holy Qur'an, the jinn are described as fire-beings that do not emit
smoke: "And He (Allah) created the jinn from fire free of smoke" (55:15)
>
>
> "[Frobenius was] encumbered by mystic theories relating to Atlantis, to an
> Etruscan influence on African culture, and so on ... a self-taught eccentric
> whose work is flawed not only by his outlandish interpretations but also by
> his rapid, crude and often destructive methods of fieldwork."
>
> --J.D. Fage, quoted by Stephen Howe in
> Afrocentrism: Mythical Pasts and Imagined Homes, p.168
>
>
>
> >http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl4.html
> >"This race of black men... is the very race to which we owe our arts,
> >our sciences, and even the use of speech!" -wrote the amazed,
> >distinguished French scholar, Count C. Volney in 1787.
>
> ditto for Volney. Volney's problem was that:
>
> (1) He exaggerated the influence Egypt had on the rest of the world -
> basically, he believed that every aspect of civilization started in ancient
> Egypt.
>
> (2) He overestimated the "blackness" of the ancient Egyptians, based on very
> little evidence (an erratic reading of Herodotus and looking at the Sphinx).
Most of the DNA evidence and metric/ non-metric studies
indicates a closer genetic relationship of Egyptians to West Africans.
The latest non-metric study by Prowse and Lovell showed the closest
relationship with Nubian populations. However, an older well-known study
(published in _ Population biology of the ancient Egyptians_ , edited by
D. R. Brothwell [and] B. A. Chiarelli. (London, New York, Academic Press,
1973) showed that an Egyptian sample grouped closer with a West African
one than any from the Mediterranean. Although it grouped closest with
an ancient Indian (where dark brown-black people are also) sample, the
next two proximate samples were from Nubia and West Africa.
Montagu (1960, 334)used the Bq gene to discriminate between groups when using
ABO typology. In most European populations, the Bq gene is below 10%, while
it is usually between 15% and 25% in African populations.
G. Paoli, in "ABO Typing of Ancient Egyptians" IN _Population biology
of ancient Egyptians_, edited by D.R. Brothwell and B.A. Chiarelli, London,
New York, 1973, showed that the Dynastic Egyptians were most closely matched
with the Haratin of the northern Sahara. Paoli mentions the theory of
Cabot-Briggs (Cabot-Briggs, L. (1958), _The Living Races of the Sahara Desert,
Massachussets) that this resemblance might indicate the origin of the Haratin.
Here are the figures given for the two groups from Paoli (p. 464):
Modern Northern Haratin and Dynastic Egyptian
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. O A B AB p q r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Egyptians 160 34 64 34 28 34.35 21.45 44.20 (Paoli)
Haratin 202 40 80 57 25 30.99 23.14 48.87 (Mourant)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Haratin are considered a mixture of the "aboriginal black
population"
of North Africa and freed slaves mostly from the South. Of particular
interest in the chart above is the very high frequency of the q gene.
In most European population, the gene frequency is below 10% (See
Montagu, A. _Introduction to Physical Anthropology_ 1960, p. 334).
The Haratin were found to have the closest blood typology to the Dynastic
Egyptians (see above)
To see a picture of a Haratin family from the Draa Valley in Morocco
check out:
http://geogweb.berkeley.edu/GeoImages/Miller/maroc/family2.jpg
----------------------------------------------------
Want to see what an Ancient Egyptian looked like? Pictured at the web site
below is a forensic reconstruction of Natsef-Amun, an Egyptian priest who
died around 1100 BC. His face was reconstructed from his skull, using a
highly accurate technique that is commonly employed by homicide detectives
to identify
bodies decomposed beyond recognition. Created by forensic artist Richard
Neave, at the University of Manchester, in 1989. Check out:
http://members.aol.com/BlackSprk/Black5.html
Clearly NEGROID features.
The forensic scientific proof on the home page comes from:
British archaeologist Richard Neave
Department of Art in Medicine
School of Biological Sciences
University of Manchester
-----------------------------------------------------
Remember, modern Egyptians are Arabs. The Arabs didn't conquer Egypt
untill the 7th century AD - at least1800 years after the Egptian priest
pictured at the above site lived.
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
> em...@domain.com (M.McGill) wrote:
>
><snip>
> >> >
> >> >According to United States state Laws 1/8 or 1/32 Negro is considered
> >> >Negro or Negroid. That's good enough for me, maybe not for you, but it is
> >> >good enough for the United States Law and myself (it was good enough for a
> >> >lot of white people who made the laws also).
> >> ><snip>
http://www.nic.in/almora/bindia.htm
Ethnic Diversities of The People of India
The present day population of India is an outcome of a very
long process of peopling of the subcontinent. Human groups with different
ethnic backgrounds have entered the region at different points of time.
Their immigration, their settlement in India and later movement within the
country have led to a high degree of intermingling between the various
ethnic and cultural streams. The ethnic and cultural diversities displayed
by the Indian population today have acquired their distinguishing traits
through their process of social intermixing.
Distribution of Racial Groups - Broadly speaking, the present
day population of the Indian subcontinent has been derived from the
following racial groups and their sub-types. (1) Negritos (2) The
Proto-Australoids (3) The Mongoloids (4) The Mediterraneans (5) The
western broad-headed people of Brachycephals consisting of (i) the
Alpinoids (ii) the Dinarics and (iii) the Armenoids (6) The Nordics.
------------------------------
The first two Ethnic types of people in India are the:
(1) Negritos (2) The Proto-Australoids
----------------------------------
http://www.indiantimes.com/people.htm
Indian population is polygenetic and is said to be melting pot of various
racial mosaic. Few, if any, can claim to belong to any particular
stock.
Races in India (as per classical pattern);
According to Dr. B.S. Guha, the population of India is derived from 6 main
ethnic groups:
1. Negrito,
2. Proto-Australoids or Austrics,
3. Mongolods,
4. Mediterranean or Dravidian,
5. Western Brachycephals and
6. Nordic Aryans.
Negroids,the brachycephallic (broad headed) from Africa were the oldest
people to have come to India...
Proto-Australoids or Austrics were a race of peaple, with wavy hair
plentifully disturbed over their brown bodies, long heads with low
forheads and prominent eyeridges, noses with low and broad roots, thick
jaws, large palates and teeth and small chins.
The Austrics of India represent a race of medium height, dark (and in some
cases black) complexion with long heads and rather flat
noses but otherwise of regular features. Miscegenation with the earlier
Negroids may be the reason for the dark or black pigmentation of
the skin and flat noses...
-------------------------------------
So you see Indians have AFRICAN NEGROID in them.
a recent study on a
particular group in India verifies their part-African identity.
Other studies have also shown African genetic contribution to the
Indian population.
Here is the PubMed abstract of the study I mentioned above:
---
Electrophoresis 1999 Jun;20(8):1743-7
Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA polymorphisms in
Indian populations.
Thangaraj K, Ramana GV, Singh L
Center for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad, India.
Y-chromosome polymorphism using short tandem repeat (STR) markers on 94
normal males belonging to the Brahmin and Kamma caste populations of
Andhra Pradesh, India, and Siddis, a migrant population from Africa,
inhabiting Hyderabad, India, revealed heterogeneity as indicated by
network analysis. We have observed population-specific haplotypes and
alleles. Analysis of Y-Alu polymorphism (YAP) in Siddis showed the
presence of Alu insertion in 40% of the individuals. However, YAP
insertion was not found in Brahmins and Kammas. The dendrogram based on
hypervariable region I (HVR I) of the displacement loop (D-loop)
sequence of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of Siddis showed genetic
relationships to African populations. YAP and mtDNA analysis of Siddis
also confirmed their immigration from Africa.
-----------------------------------------------
http://metalab.unc.edu/nge/blacked/bl11.html
The earliest people of India were Black Africans! It is
believed that many of them came from Ethiopia. Often called Dravidians,
these Africans founded the great Indus Valley Civilization around 3000
B.C. They brought with them many spiritual sciences which originated in
Africa, such as those of Yoga, Kundalini & Reflexology. They were
masters of urban planning and architecture: their homes & cities had
running water, toilets, and an underground sewage system! - evidenced at
the Mohenjo Daro ruins (2000 B.C.). It is believed that the Ganges, the
sacered river of India, is named after an Ethiopian king of that name
who conquered Asia as far as this river.
India's Blacks are ignorant of their African roots.
India's native Black population is the largest Black population outside
Africa, numbering about 200 million. They have brown to black skin,
straight or kinky hair and Africoid features, such as the famous Indian
holy man, Sathya Sai Baba who has a large kinky afro. Rajshekar writes
"The Black untouchables of India, even the educated among them are not
aware of the common origion of Africans and Dalits. When they come to
know of this and the struggle of the African-Americans and their
spectacular achievements, our people will naturally become proud.
Putting pride into their broken hearts is our prime task... The
African-Americans also must know that their liberation struggle cannot
be complete as long as theri own blood-brothers and sisters living in far
of Asia are suffering. It is true that African-Americans and India's
Black Untouchables are both the victims of racism...
M.McGill
> In our history, the term Moor refers to any Moslem from North Africa
> and not to blacks from North Africa, I am not a racist but I do not
> believe that blacks had that much impact on the history of North
> Africa/Spain.
>
In article <384bb910...@news.alt.net>, em...@domain.com (Sir Osis of
Dilivir) wrote:
> Of course I don't agree with their opinions, but their statements would be
> highly unlikely if blacks were the "movers and shakers" of medieval Islamic
> society in N Africa and Spain.
In article <82il0h$uoq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, syn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Who were these people that ruled vast empire in Northwest Africa. As far
> as the history of North Africa, the only people who ruled have always
> been the berbers(Moors) and certainly they were not black.
Blacks (Negroes) played a significant role in North Africa during the time
of the Muslim conquests of Spain.
Ancient Ghana in the 11th centrury AD equipped with iron weapons, made it
master of the trade routes extending from present-day Morocco in the north
to the coastal forests of western Africa in the south.
Ghana was succeed by Mali and Songhay which fell to Morocco late in the
16th century.
--------------------------------------
http://www.cwpost.liunet.edu/cwis/cwp/library/aaslavry.htm
Three major empires Ghana (790-1240), Mali (1240-1600), and Songhai (670-1591)
------------------------
Ghana
The earliest of these states, Ghana, came into being by the 5th century AD
in what is now southeastern Mauritania. Its capital, Kumbi Saleh, has been
excavated in modern times. By the 11th century, the armies of Ghana,
equipped with iron weapons, made it master of the trade routes extending
from present-day Morocco in the north to the coastal forests of western
Africa in the south.
----------------------------------------
http://artsedge.kennedy-center.org/aoi/resources/hg/ancient.html
Ghana, Mali, and Songhai are the best documented of the ancient west
African empires...
Ghana emerged as a state in circa 300 A.D.. and came to wealth and
prominence as a result of its trade in salt and gold. Strategically
positioned, Ghana was able to control two main trans-Saharan trade routes
which stretched north to Morocco and Libya and west to the Bornu region
near Lake Chad where it connected with the Nile Valley trade.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline2.htm
ca 1000
1076
Ghana Empire of Soninke peoples (in what is now SE Mauritania) at height
of power. The earliest of the 3 great West African states (emerging ca.
300 CE), Ghana equipped its armies with iron weapons and became master of
the trade in salt and gold, controlling routes extending from present-day
Morocco in the north, Lake Chad and Nubia/Egypt in the east, and the
coastal forests of western Africa in the south. By the early 11th century,
Muslim advisers were at the
court of Ghana.
Civilizations in Africa: Ghana (Richard Hooker, World Civilizations, WSU):
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/GHANA.HTM
-------------------------------------------
http://library.advanced.org/13406/sh/
Trans-Saharan Trade
Map of The Trade Routes Of The Ghana Empire
The route began in Northern Africa in a commercial city known as
Sidjilmassa ( near the present-day Moroccan-Algerian border). It passed
through the salt-rich
village of Taghaza, through the Sahara and finally to the gold region of
the Ghana Empire known as Wangara. No one knows the exact location of this
region but it was probably near the Bambuk and Bure regions near the
Senegal River.
---------------------------------------------
http://artsedge.kennedy-center.org/aoi/resources/hg/ancient.html
Under Mansa Musa the Mali empire reached north into the present areas of
Mauritania and southern Algeria, and south into the northern Nigerian
Hausa states. In 1324 Musa went on his famous hajj (pilgrimage) to Mecca
which he financed with about ninety camel-loads of gold dust which, as a
writer later remarked, because of his generosity so depressed the price of
gold in Egypt that it took the Egyptian economy over ten years to recover.
Upon Musaís return from his hajj, he brought back a number of Muslim
scholars, architects, and other skilled men amongst whom was as-Saheli who
distinguished himself by building the University of Sankore at Timbuktu.
Students and professors from all over the Muslim world were attracted to
this intellectual center as this African empire increased in international
recognition and respect. Mali began to decline in 1400 thereafter making
way for the empire of Songhai to emerge from the vassal
state of Gao.
-------------------------------------------
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/CIVAFRCA/MALI.HTM
The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa (1312-1337) who
expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuctu, Gao,
and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques
all throughout the Mali sphere of influence; his gold-laden pilgrimage to
Mecca made him an historical figure even in European history writing.
It was under Mansa Musa that Timbuctu became one of the major cultural
centers not only of Africa but of the entire world. Under Mansa Musa's
patronage, vast libraries were built and madrasas (Islamic universities)
were endowed; Timbuctu became a meeting-place of the finest poets,
scholars, and artists of Africa and the Middle East. Even after the power
of Mali declined, Timbuctu remained the major Islamic center of
sub-Saharan Africa.
-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.pafb.af.mil/deomi/blhis92.htm
Mali became the
richest and most powerful nation in the Sudan by the end of the
13th century. Its success continued under the rule of Mansa
Musa, Sundiata Keita's grandson, who came to power in 1307.
Mansa Musa became well known in the Mediterranean region and
Europe for his pilgrimage to Mecca and his majestic caravans.
When Mansa Musa was returning from Mecca, he learned that
the town of Gao, Songhay's capital, had fallen under his rule.
He traveled to Gao himself to receive the King's surrender.
Mansa Musa took the king's two sons back to Mali to insure his
obedience to Mali's rule.
Map-makers in the Mediterranean and in Europe began to place
Mali on their maps. On one of the maps Mansa Musa is described:
This negro lord is called Musa Mali, Lord of Negroes
of Guinea. So abundant is the gold which is found
in his country that he is the richest and most noble
king in all the land. (5:55)
Mali was a diverse and well organized nation having cultural
centers, political influence, and commerce and trade,
particularly gold. Mansa Musa died in 1332 and was succeeded by
his son Maghan.
------------------------------------------------------------
Sir Osis of Thilivir
lighter than Indians, who were lighter than Ethiopians. He described the
Egyptians as having a "medium tone", and apparently Moors were even lighter.
According to Frank Snowden:
"That Ethiopians were the blackest peoples known to Greeks and Romans is
illustrated by a familiar 'color-scheme,' succinctly stated in the first
century C.E. by Manilius, who classified dark-skinned peoples as follows:
Ethiopians, the blackest; Indians, less sunburned; Egyptians, mildly dark;
and Moors, the lightest."
The above quote was excerpted from the following source:
Snowden, Jr., F. "Bernal's 'Blacks,' Herodotus and Other Classical
Evidence." Arethusa, Special Issue: The Challenge of Black Athena (Fall,
1989): 97-109.
Sir Osis of Thilivir
<snnip>
>
>More likely the Original race looked like a African Negro, because of
>environment and climate. The Negroid features are the ones that are the
>most adaptable and harmonious with the Tropical Equatorial climate and
>environment of East Africa.
>
It's a plausible theory, but it would still be nice to see a facial
reconstruction of the original race. Ah well.
>>
>>
>> >Throughout the world prominent
>> >magazines have done front page articles on "the most incredible find of
>> >all times: Scientists have unearthed the ancient bones of a Black African
>> >[pygmy] woman who is indisputably the mother of all humanity!" They
>> >nicknamed her [Mitochondrial] Eve"... our common ancestor - a woman who
>> >lived 200,000 years ago and left resilent genes that are carried by all of
>> >mankind" reports the best-selling issue ever of Newsweek magazine
>> >(1/11/88) which depicts
>> >a Black Adam and Eve on its front cover headlining it The Search for Adam
>> >and Eve.
>>
>> I saw the "Time" cover as a child. Actually the Adam and Eve portrayed on
>> the cover looked "multiracial" rather than fully black or fully white or
>> fully anything else.
>
>Anything like the picture from this URL below?
>http://di-145c.mit.edu/racesci/in_media/what_dna_says_about_human/index.shtml
>
Something like that. All I remember is that they looked light-skinned, and
the woman's hair was kind of wavy (rather than frizzy).
<snip>
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Recently there has been discussion of the ancient and medieval North
> Africans being "black" or "Negro" or what not. But I think it's more
> probable that they more closely resembled their modern successors in today's
> North Africa rather than the Negroes of sub-Saharan Africa. I say this for
> the following reasons......
>
>
> 1. Medieval Arabs, from their earliest recorded history, referred to
> sub-Saharan Africa as bilad al-Sudan which means "land of the blacks." North
> Africa was not considered part of this bilad.
Modern day Mauritania is in North Africa. The population of Mauritania is
80% Moors. Most of the moors are Black Moors. These Moors are descendants
of the Original Moors. Most of the population (70% is Negro or Negroid).
-------------------------------
http://www.on-the-hook.com/TEMPLATES/MAURITAN.htm
Official Name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Eighty percent of the population are Moors
Maure (Moor) society as "white" and "black".
Although taken together, black Moors and black
Africans outnumbered white Moors, black Moors identify in many
ways with white Moors. All Mauritanians are Muslims
BLACK MOORS & BLACK AFRICANS OUTNUMBER WHITE MOORS.
------------------------------
http://af.orientation.com/country/mr/destination.html
Full country name: Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Area: 1,030,400 sq km (402,000 sq mi)
Population: 2.4 million
Capital city: Nouakchott (pop 1 million)
People: Black Moors 40%, Moors 30%, Black Africans (Soninké, Pulaar,
Peuls, Wolof) 30%
--------------------------
40% (Black Negro Moors) plus 30% (Black Non Muslim Africans) = 70% Negroid
country.
--------------------------
http://www.emulateme.com/content/mauritania.htm
Mauritania
Location: Northern Africa, bordering the North Atlantic Ocean, between
Senegal and Western Sahara
----------------------------------
During the 11th Century A.D. Ghana a vast Negroid empire were masters of
the trans-Saharan trade route extending north to Morocco, South to
Senegal, and East to Egypt/Sudan.
>
>
> 2. The ancient Greeks called sub-Saharan Africans "Ethiopians" (meaning
> "burnt-faced peoples"), but the term was not applied to North Africans.
http://hine.k12.dc.us/SAC/africanpresence_043099.html
Some historians describe the Moors "as a small black people, burned by
the sun,...
the Moors of Granada; a small, dark people, burned by the sun, full of
wit and fire"-Quote from Bernard de Fontanelle in 1686.(page 619 _The
Physical Universe_ by Konrad B. Kravskopt and Arthur Beiser 6th edition 1991).
>
> 3. Manilius ranked certain darker-skinned peoples in the following order,
> according to relative darkness: (1) Ethiopians (darkest); (2) Indians; (3)
> Egyptians; (4) Moors (lightest).
http://www.he.net/~skyeagle/egypt1.htm
The image above is from Lepsius' work and shows the four races of
humans. At the far left (A) is the Egyptian as seen by the Egyptians
themselves. Notice the nearly identical features and clothing of the
typical African (C) situated third from the left. (K.R. Lepsius,
Denkmaler aus Aegypten und Aethiopian, Erganzungsband, fig. 48)
"Where we expected to see an Egyptian, we are presented with an
authentic Negro." -- K.R. Lepsius, during an expedition in the
early 1800's
----------------------------
SEE PICTURE OF BLACK NEGRO MOORS
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
Moorish noblemen playing chess while being waited upon by servants dated
1283AD. These Moors were most likely members of the Almoravid Dynasties
which invaded Spain in the 11th century AD. Courtesy of Islam Under the
Crusaders
A striking proof that the word Moor was, as among Germans at this time,
exactly equivalent to Negro, is not only its use as applied to the
curly-haired, thick lipped Aaron in Titus Andonicus, but also the constant
interchange of the words as applied to the equally unmistakable negro
Eleazar, in Lust's Dominion.
It should also be noted that Shakespeare's most famous Moor, Othello, is
also described as a Black African.
-----------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/8192/moors.html
Tuareg women commonly identified as Berbers
Courtesy of National Geographic Magazine
The Berber clans that were most instrumental in the Moorish
conquest of Spain were the Nafza, Masmuda, Luwata, Hawwara, Zanata,
Sanhadja and Zugwaha. Writing of the women of the Berber clan the Sanhadja
confederation a Muslim scholar states, "Their color is black, though some
pale ones can be found among them."
There are obviously Black as well as Caucasian Berbers, the former seeming
to be the most original.
Turning once again to the European literature of the age, in the Romance
of El Cid some of the Berber women, Almoravids, are described. A "black
Moorish woman" named Nugaymath Turquia is said to lead a contingent of 300
Black Moorish "Amazons." They are described as "negresses" with their
heads shaven, leaving a topknot.
>
>
> 4. In Egyptian art, Lybians were often portrayed as very light-skinned. In
> fact, in the tomb of the Egyptian pharaoh Seti I, the Lybians are depicted
> as even lighter than the Semites.
>
>
> Sometimes evidence is given to support the opposing position; this is
> usually poorly understood, badly misinterpreted quotes from Europeans or
> Arabs. Here are responses to some misconceptions:
>
>
> 1. In earlier times, "black" did not necessarily mean "negro." I will quote
> from Peter Frost of the Université Laval in Quebec:
The Moors were," according to the Oxford English Dictionary, "commonly
supposed to be mostly black or very swarthy, and hence the word is often
used for negro."
http://www.wanonline.com/blackhistory/blackhistory5974.html
Although scholars generally agree that the word Moor is derived from Mauri
there are profound disagreements among historian authors on what the word
originally meant and how it was applied.
Anthropologist [and Ethnohistorian], Dana Reynolds traced the African
roots of the original North African peoples through a dozen Greek and
Byzantine (neo-Roman writers) from the first to the sixth century A.D.
"They describe the Berber population of Northern Africa as black-skinned
and woolly-haired."
Among these writers who wrote about the Berbers were Martial, Silius
Italicus, Corippus and Procopius. "The original Black Berbers called
Moors, were the North African ancestors of the present day dark-brown and
brown-black peoples of the Sahara and the Sahel, mainly those called
Fulani, Tugareg, Zenagha of Southern Morocco, Kunta and Tebbu of the Sahel
countries, as well as other black arabs now living in Mauretania and
throughout the Sahel-- the include the Trarza of Mauretania [Mauritania]
and Senegal, the Mogharba as well as dozens of other Sudanese tribes, the
Chaamba of Chad and Algeria."
>
> <begin quote>
>
> The literature of the Middle Ages does attest to an awareness of differences
> in skin color, but these differences were seen as existing largely between
> individuals rather than between races. Descriptions of human complexion as
> "white," "brown" or "black" would correspond in modern usage to "fair,"
> "tan" or "swarthy." Medieval Europeans had no awareness of belonging to a
> "white" race, if only for want of contact with other races.
>
> Among the pre-Islamic Arabs, the historian Bernard Lewis notes a more
> relativistic color terminology, centered more on the individual than on the
> collectivity:
>
> "These terms are usually used in a personal rather than ethnic sense, and
> would correspond to such words as swarthy, sallow, blonde or ruddy in our
> own modern usage more than to words like black and white. Sometimes they are
> used ethnically, but even then in a relative rather than absolute sense. The
> Arabs, for example, sometimes describe themselves as black in contrast to
> the Persians who are red, but at other times as red (or even white) in
> contrast to the Africans who are black."
>
> This older, more relative sense has been noted in other culture areas. The
> Japanese once used the terms shiroi (white) and kuroi (black) to describe
> their skin and its gradations of color . The Ibos of Nigeria employed ocha
> (white) and ojii (black) in the same way, so that nwoko ocha (white man)
> simply meant an Ibo with a yellowish or reddish complexion. In French
> Canada, the older generation still refers to a swarthy Canadien as noir.
>
> Vestiges of this older usage persist in family names. Mr. White, Mr. Brown,
> and Mr. Black were individuals within the normal color spectrum of English
> people. Ditto for Leblanc, Lebrun, and Lenoir among the French or Weiss and
> Schwartz among the Germans.
>
> <end quote>
>
>
> 2. Even if you interpret certain descriptions as evidence of negroid traits
> among the North Africans, this doesn't necessarily mean that the traits are
> found in all or even most North Africans.
>
>
> 3. Exaggeration surely has played a part in certain ancient descriptions of
> foreign peoples; thus any such quotes must be viewed with some skepticism.
> For instance, 12th-century Europeans exaggerated the darkness of
> contemporary Turks, calling them "blacker than pitch or ink" in the Song of
> Aspremont. Although Turks may have been dark in comparison to Europeans, the
> medieval Turks left a lot of pictorial evidence showing they were more
> Caucasoid than anything else. Ibn Butlan described the Greeks as having
> straight blond hair and blue eyes, but this too was probably an
> exaggeration, as the "blond-haired, blue-eyed" type constitutes only a
> minority of Greeks. Those "Nordic" traits are, however, more common among
> Greeks than Arabs, and that is probably why Ibn Butlan used the stereotype.
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Here is a picture of the Moorish ruler of Granada, taken from the Cantigas
> de Santa Maria from the reign of Alphonso X.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/md/8/images/kinggranada.jpg
>
> (looks a bit light for a black person)
In Mauritania (Mauri = Moor) today we find Black Moors & White Moors.
Black Moors outnumber White Moors. Mauritania's population is 80% Moors,
but 70% of the country is Negro or Negroid.
M.McGill
Thilivir) wrote:
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Actually, the Siddhis (sp?) are thought to be recent immigrants to India,
> probably as slaves or servants or otherwise, from very recent times. So it
> is certainly not surprising that they show African admixture.
>
> Have you ever looked at Cavalli-Sforza's book, History and Geography of
> Human Genes?
No.
> According to the studies shown in the book, the genetic
> "distance" between Indians and Africans is actually *greater* than the
> "distance" between Africans and Europeans! So from an African point of
> view, Europeans would actually be closer relatives than Indians.
>
> Another conclusion of the book is that Africans and "Australoids" are as
> unrelated as can be, despite superficial similarities in appearance.
http://www.nic.in/almora/bindia.htm
Ethnic Diversities of The People of India
The first two Ethnic types of people in India are the:
(1) Negritos (2) The Proto-Australoids
------------------------------
http://www.indiantimes.com/people.htm
Races in India (as per classical pattern);
According to Dr. B.S. Guha, the population of India is derived from 6 main
ethnic groups:
1. Negrito,
2. Proto-Australoids or Austrics,
3. Mongolods,
4. Mediterranean or Dravidian,
5. Western Brachycephals and
6. Nordic Aryans.
Negroids,the brachycephallic (broad headed) from Africa were the oldest
people to have come to India...
The Austrics of India represent a race of medium height, dark (and in some
cases black) complexion with long heads and rather flat
noses but otherwise of regular features. Miscegenation with the earlier
Negroids may be the reason for the dark or black pigmentation of
the skin and flat noses...
-------------------------------------
There are many types of NEGROIDS AROUND THE WORLD, as I will show below.
ASIAN-AFRICAN NEGROID CONNECTION
http://www.andaman.org/book/news/textnews.htm
New DNA evidence:
nearest relatives to Andamanese are Khoisan of
South Africa
"Dr. Hagelberg was engaged in an attempt to track the movements of
prehistoric populations in the Pacific by mitochondrial DNA when she came
across a bushel
of Andamanese hair from Radcliffe-Brown's expedition to the Andamans
1906-08 in a Cambridge Museum. She added a few of them to her test series
and was astonished to find the nearest genetic match in the Khoisan
(formerly known as Bushmen and Hottentots) of southern Africa. If her
result is confirmed, it will be an important piece of evidence in tracing
the origins of modern humanity and its migration out of Africa.
The new evidence supports the Out-of-Africa theory which holds that modern
humanity left Africa around 100,000 years ago and spread over Europe, Asia
and
Australia where it replaced by exterminating or inter-breeding with the
descendants of earlier hominid migrants they found living there (e.g.
Neanderthal, Peking and Java Man). If this is so, the Khoisan (which have
long been regarded as the most ancient African population) and the Asian
Negrito would be the last remaining substantially unchanged remnant of
those earliest modern human migrants...
That the Khoisan and the Andamanese have some connection has already been
suspected on the grounds that the two are the only living populations
still carrying the genetic trait for "fat bottom" (steatopygia) - an
adaptation for the survival of mother and child in an unpredictable
climate."
In India it is true their are black people with caucasion features, and
they were also considered the lowest class of people in the caste system.
Sai Baba a popular Guru of India, from Southern India has Negroid features
and a Afro hair.
check out:
http://fgl.com/sai.htm
http://members.aol.com/introsai/about/index.htm
http://www.sai-baba.org/
Check out the pics below of Papua New Guinea People. Notice the Negroid
features, coarse nappy hair, big noses, broad lips, dark skin:
http://www.fitznet.com.au/bundi/chapter1.htm
http://www.fitznet.com.au/bundi/chapter5.htm
http://ukdb.web.aol.com/hutchinson/encyclopedia/15/M0032215.htm
Negrito
or Negrillo
Member of any of several peoples living on various islands in Southeast
Asia. The Negritos are long-established inhabitants of the region and have
affinities with Australoid groups. They include the cave-dwelling Vedda of
Sri Lanka, the Andamanese of the Andaman Islands, and the Semang of
Malaysia.
Check this out to find out about the non-African Negrito race (with
Negroid features):
http://www.andaman.org/book/chapter6/text6.htm
INDIAN SUBCONTINENT
01 Vedda
02 Kadar, Kanikkar, Kurumbar, Palliyan, Panyan, Puliyan, Urali
03 Irular
04 Yanadi
05 Chenchu, Ho
06 Oraon
07 Gond
08 Birhor
09 Santal
10 Naga
11 Andamanese
CONTINENTAL SOUTHEAST ASIA
12 Moken
13 Shompen
14 Yumbri
15 Takkui
16 Porr (Jong)
17 Moi (Anu-chu, Jarai, or Montagnards)
18 Senoi, Sakai
19 Semang
INDONESIA
20 Niasan
21 Mentaweians
22 Sugganese
23 Sumatran Kubus
24 Lingga Kubus
25 Bangka Kubus
26 Belitung Kubus
27 Alorese, Pantarese, some Timorese, etc.
28 Alfur, etc.
29
Tobelorese, etc.
30 Toradja, etc.
31 Toala
32 Loinang,
Laki, etc.
33 Punan
PAPUA AND
NEW GUINEA
34 Tapiro
35 Botem
36 pygmies
of the Sepik source area
37 pygmies
of the Torricelli Mountains
38 Ayome pygmies
39 Kamaweka
40 pygmies
of the Gogol and Ramu river areas
41 Normanby
island pygmies
42
population in the interior of the Gazelle peninsula (New Britain)
THE PHILIPPINES
43 Aeta
44 Alangan
(Mindoro)
45 Batak
(Palawan)
46 Dumagat
Negritos
47 Ati (Panay)
48 Ati (Negros)
49 Mamanua
(Mindanao)
50 Tiruray,
Ata, Upland Bagobo
AUSTRALIA
51 Bathurst
and Melville islanders
52
Barrineans (Atherton plateau or Queensland Negritos)
53 Tasmanians
Fig. 6-1. Negritos, related groups and groups showing suspected Negrito traces.
"There is little doubt that the Negrito race represents an ancient, if not
the most ancient, component in the prehistoric peopling of Asia by
anatomically modern humans. As such they could go back 100,000 years or
more.
That the Andamanese are not a local development but the remnant of a once
widely-spread race is shown by the fact that they are not the only
Negritos: there are two other living groups which we will look at in more
detail in separate chapters: the Semangs of the Malay Peninsula and the
Aetas (or Agtas) of the Philippines. Unlike the Andamanese these two
groups have not lived in complete isolation. They had and still have
long-standing contacts to neighbors of different cultures. Inevitably both
Negrito groups have acquired cultural and physical traits that set them
apart from each other and from the Andamanese.
The various Negrito groups then gradually lost contact with each other,
leaving us today with only three widely separated surviving populations.
However, so many cross-connections and similarities between the Negritos,
Veddoids, Papuans, Melanesians, Australians and Tasmanians have been noted
that at the very least a long period of common residence in tropical Asia
if not a common origin must be assumed.
Among surviving groups that may be related to the Negritos are the Veddas
of Sri Lanka and the Veddoids (Vedda-like people) living in tiny groups
all over
southern India and southeast Asia."
Check this out to see pics of a Negrito man (Great Andaman, 1890s) and a
Vedda man (Sri Lanka, 1890s), see the NEGROID FEATURES?
http://www.andaman.org/book/pleistocene_exhibition/textexh.htm
M.McGill
Dilivir) wrote:
> em...@domain.com (Sir Osis of Dilivir) wrote:
>
> >X-No-Archive: yes
> >
> >The most famous geographer of Islamic Spain was al-Idrisi. Here's what he
> >had to say about the black peoples...
> >
>
In addition to Mali's great wealth, Ibn Batuta also observed that the
kingdom was virtually free of crime--an astonishing feat for any nation,
then as now. -The Arab traveler, Ibn Batuta, in his _Travels in Asia and
Africa_, 1325-1354.
From page xiv _Chronology of African American History_ by Alton Hornsby, Jr.