Legitimate African american conservatives?
coquinegra
Who are the "legitimate" conservative African American
voices out there? By legitimate, I DO NOT mean raving
talk show hosts (not mentioning names here) who are often
present on Black "forum" talk shows for, it seems to me
solely to bring comic relief into the program.
Instead, I'm thinking of personalities like Clarence
Thomas and J.C. Watts, which I might put in a different
category than someone like Floyd Flake or Tony Brown, but,
nontheless, should be treated with a certain amount of
respect as serious people, regardless of their
socio-political ideology.
In other words, I'm not really looking for an ideology battle,
but, rather, a list of serious Black thinkers who support
conservative ideas.
thanks,
Kim
--
"Gospel, jazz and R&B or Bachata, merengue y Salsa.
Depends on the time of day. Any questions?"
coqui...@hotmail.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Wayne Johnson
wrote:
>Hi Guys
>
>Who are the "legitimate" conservative African American
>voices out there?
Here's my list:
It's growing every day.
Wayne "I think within a year or so, it should get to maybe one person"
Johnson
cia...@ix.netcom.com
Carl Fletcher
Bravo, Right ON!!!
Do you differientiate "black conservatives" from black republicans?
I am thinking of the people who follow the path of Authur Fletcher,
Jackie Robinson, Alex Haley, William Coleman and the like.
Salaam,
C. F. .
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>Here's my list:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>It's growing every day.
I disagree, but must say that was damn funny!
regards,
The Devil's Advocate
"Your Warrant Is In Question"
The Devil's Advocate©
<ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>Do you differientiate "black conservatives" from black republicans?
What do you consider to be the defining distinctions between the two?
Sure in many cases they overlap. But since you ask the question, how
would you define the difference?
Wayne Johnson
<ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>Do you differientiate "black conservatives" from black republicans?
Of course. And, quite honestly, I don't understand the concept of
conservatism, to tell you the truth.
Everybody describes it differently, and the GOP has so much overt and
covert racism built into it, I can't understand how any Black person
can stand to associate themselves with that crew.
Even Black people I like, such as Colin Powell, and non-Black
politicians I like, such as John McCain and Jack Kemp, mystify me with
their accomodation of the Reagan/Buchanan wing of that party.
The point is, that is the party that claims the hold the mantle of
conservatism, and I am tired of their claims that unless someone is as
reactionary and nasty as they are, that they're not conservative in
outlook. In short, I don't equate being conservative with being a
modern Republican, cheering on Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Trent
Lott, Bob Barr, and the rest of those clowns.
>I am thinking of the people who follow the path of Authur Fletcher,
>Jackie Robinson, Alex Haley, William Coleman and the like.
I tend to think that these folks are simply reflecting the values held
by most Black people, who are actually a pretty conservative bunch,
when you think about it. Being affluent, many of them were or have
been co-opted by wealthy friends into being part of the GOP; but I'd
rather see a Black person walk the walk with the rest of us.
Wayne "There are limits to who I will eat a $500 a plate chicken
dinner with" Johnson
cia...@ix.netcom.com
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>You disagree with Wayne that there are none, so you must have some in
>mind.
>
>Who are they?
How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
Phil Nation
Art Clemons (artcl...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <7u5jsr$b16$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
: coquinegra <coqui...@hotmail.com> writes:
: >That's a good point. Can we distinguish "Republican" from
: >"Conservative"? I think we can, and I can think of several
: >white Republicans who are not conservative. but African-Americans?
: >I'm still struggling with that. Is Tony Brown a conservative
: >or a Republican?
: Brown has always claimed to be a conservative
He has? I seem to recall in "Black Lies, White Lies" him expressing
his dislike for the term and saying he doesn't consider himself one.
Phil Kasiecki
--
Philip T. Kasiecki
Electrical Engineer
EST Corporation
pkas...@ieee.org
http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/p/pkasieck/
"Life is not important except in the impact it has on others' lives."
-Jackie Robinson
Art Clemons
Nation) writes:
> He has? I seem to recall in "Black Lies, White Lies" him expressing
>his dislike for the term and saying he doesn't consider himself one.
>
In the late 60's & early 70's, when Brown's was about the only dark face on
national public television, he called himself conservative. He began to
distance himself when conservatives began claiming racism as one of the
inherent bylaws for being conservative.
-art clemons-
Carl Fletcher
> On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:46:09 CST, "Carl Fletcher"
> <ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>
>
> Of course. And, quite honestly, I don't understand the concept of
> conservatism, to tell you the truth.
>
I agree.
>
> Everybody describes it differently, and the GOP has so much overt and
> covert racism built into it, I can't understand how any Black person
> can stand to associate themselves with that crew.
Using real definitions of political philosophy, the Republican party in
its present form is absolutely NOT conservative. If you really look
at their constituencies and policies they are really radical
Libertarians.
The Republican party prior to the Goldwater take over in the late 1960's
and the near 40 year alliance with the former Dixiecrats and Wallace
supporters would never so openly and blatently sell public policy
for campaign contributions. Yeah, Yeah, the Democrats are doing it
too. Remember that most of the laws regulating trust, corporations
and large banks on behalf of the people. It was Teddy Roosevelt tht
started the Food and Drug Administration, clowns like Dick (a totally
appropriate name) Armey want to ablish it. Hoover started the
NRA in 1932.
My point is that the Republican party had an honorable past that has
been essentially obliterated by the antics of Reagan, Gingrich and
that scum Lott. Considering the stands the party took from 1900
until 1964 and looking at the alternative in the Democrat party I
understand why African Americans of previous generation align
themselves or are at least lend an ear to what was once a progressive
party.
>
> Even Black people I like, such as Colin Powell, and non-Black
> politicians I like, such as John McCain and Jack Kemp, mystify me with
> their accomodation of the Reagan/Buchanan wing of that party.
>
John McCain is the same proto-facist that Pat Buchannan is. Look at
his voting record. He put a different face on a very mean party.
>
> The point is, that is the party that claims the hold the mantle of
> conservatism, and I am tired of their claims that unless someone is as
> reactionary and nasty as they are, that they're not conservative in
> outlook. In short, I don't equate being conservative with being a
> modern Republican, cheering on Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Trent
> Lott, Bob Barr, and the rest of those clowns.
>
These are the repugnant unrepentant "Dixecrats" I spoke of.
>
> >I am thinking of the people who follow the path of Authur Fletcher,
> >Jackie Robinson, Alex Haley, William Coleman and the like.
>
> I tend to think that these folks are simply reflecting the values held
> by most Black people, who are actually a pretty conservative bunch,
> when you think about it. Being affluent, many of them were or have
> been co-opted by wealthy friends into being part of the GOP; but I'd
> rather see a Black person walk the walk with the rest of us.
>
I understand what you are saying but, to them they are doing just that.
Have you read or heard of the book by this attorney turned author
how wrote a book about these wealthy and UMC (upper Middle Class)
AfAms who have been long time republicans?
Salaam,
CF.
jmd...@my-deja.com
coquinegra <coqui...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys
>
> Who are the "legitimate" conservative African American
> talk show hosts (not mentioning names here) who are often
> present on Black "forum" talk shows for, it seems to me
> solely to bring comic relief into the program.
> Instead, I'm thinking of personalities like Clarence
> Thomas and J.C. Watts, which I might put in a different
> category than someone like Floyd Flake or Tony Brown, but,
> nontheless, should be treated with a certain amount of
> respect as serious people, regardless of their
> socio-political ideology.
> In other words, I'm not really looking for an ideology battle,
> but, rather, a list of serious Black thinkers who support
> conservative ideas.
>
> thanks,
>
> Kim
Well for me conservatives such as Colin Powell are certainly
legitimate. I have great respect for those who don't just
give quaint speeches about "personal responsibilty" but actually
go into the community and DO something to try to improve things.
But then I feel the same way about Tony Brown (what category
do you put him in?)
I don't have much respect for Clarence Thomas, because frankly
I have yet to hear of him actually doing anything to help anyone
but himself.
I haven't made up my mind on J.C. Watts yet. On occassion he
does or says something that gains my respect, on other occassions
it seems like he's just letting himself be used.
Wayne Johnson
<ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>Using real definitions of political philosophy, the Republican party in
>its present form is absolutely NOT conservative. If you really look
>at their constituencies and policies they are really radical
>Libertarians.
They don't mind interfering in the private lives of people who they
seek to control, which is quite different from true libertarian
philosophy. Libertarians aren't out there trying to get
constitutional amendments passed prohibiting abortion, and so on.
[interesting comments snipped]
>My point is that the Republican party had an honorable past that has
>been essentially obliterated by the antics of Reagan, Gingrich and
>that scum Lott. Considering the stands the party took from 1900
>until 1964 and looking at the alternative in the Democrat party I
>understand why African Americans of previous generation align
>themselves or are at least lend an ear to what was once a progressive
>party.
Each party exchanges the populist hat, or at least claims to, every
generation or so. What astounds me is that the GOP stirred up
"backlash" racism in getting a supposed "populist" vote for Reagan in
'80 and '84; and immediately, the control of the party, always held by
the priveleged monied class in this country, became overt and
apparent.
Republican "progressive" policies seem to be pretty scarce in the 20th
century, anyhow. They set up ludicrous monetary policies that led to
the Depression, then kicked and screamed over the New Deal, spent two
decades Red-baiting the American political scene, and finally brought
in an overt racist as an American President - and still speak his name
in hushed, reverential tones.
I don't see the GOP as being progressive at all.
>> Even Black people I like, such as Colin Powell, and non-Black
>> politicians I like, such as John McCain and Jack Kemp, mystify me with
>> their accomodation of the Reagan/Buchanan wing of that party.
>
>John McCain is the same proto-facist that Pat Buchannan is. Look at
>his voting record. He put a different face on a very mean party.
NO one is as far out as Buchanan, who is an outright fascist. His
voting record sets him up as a good Republican, but I agree, it
doesn't look impressive.
>> The point is, that is the party that claims the hold the mantle of
>> conservatism, and I am tired of their claims that unless someone is as
>> reactionary and nasty as they are, that they're not conservative in
>> outlook. In short, I don't equate being conservative with being a
>> modern Republican, cheering on Rush Limbaugh, Pat Buchanan, Trent
>> Lott, Bob Barr, and the rest of those clowns.
>These are the repugnant unrepentant "Dixecrats" I spoke of.
Well, we had D'amato in New York, before that tick got dislodged, and
Reagan from California, and Hatch and Bennett from Utah - and none of
these are "Dixiecrats". There's plenty more, in case you're checking.
>> >I am thinking of the people who follow the path of Authur Fletcher,
>> >Jackie Robinson, Alex Haley, William Coleman and the like.
>>
>> I tend to think that these folks are simply reflecting the values held
>> by most Black people, who are actually a pretty conservative bunch,
>> when you think about it. Being affluent, many of them were or have
>> been co-opted by wealthy friends into being part of the GOP; but I'd
>> rather see a Black person walk the walk with the rest of us.
>>
>
>I understand what you are saying but, to them they are doing just that.
>Have you read or heard of the book by this attorney turned author
>how wrote a book about these wealthy and UMC (upper Middle Class)
>AfAms who have been long time republicans?
No, I haven't.
Wayne "Sounds like a Stephen King novel" Johnson
cia...@ix.netcom.com
olan
> > <ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Of course. And, quite honestly, I don't understand the concept of
> > conservatism, to tell you the truth.
> >
>
> I agree.
>
> >
> > Everybody describes it differently, and the GOP has so much overt
and
> > covert racism built into it, I can't understand how any Black person
> > can stand to associate themselves with that crew.
>
in
> its present form is absolutely NOT conservative. If you really look
> at their constituencies and policies they are really radical
> Libertarians.
You equate the GOP with Libertarians? The GOP does claim to be for
less government intrusion into citizen's lives, but on the other hand
they seem to want gov't to intrude in certain aspects of our lives.
IMO, the same can be said for the democratic party.
And what is a "radical libertarian"?
--
olan
olan
(deletion)
> Using real definitions of political philosophy, the Republican party
in
> its present form is absolutely NOT conservative. If you really look
> at their constituencies and policies they are really radical
> Libertarians.
Radical Libertarians? Just what is that? And what policy positions
taken by the GOP lead you to your conclusion?
olan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT:
TONE BAITS POSTERS. TONE IS SIMILAR TO BULLYING.
coquinegra
REMOVE-THI...@excite.com wrote:
> How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
This has to be a joke.
No, Armstrong is often on TV for comic relief.
He's not capable of articulating any REAL point
of view, he's passionate, but inarticulate.
Anyway, I wasn't thinking of the Jerry Springer-type
ring master, but a real voice. I think Tony
Brown is a legitimate voice, as is Rev. Dr. Flake,
and probably others, but no, A.W. does not count.
Kimberly
--
"Gospel, jazz and R&B or Bachata, merengue y Salsa.
Depends on the time of day. Any questions?"
coqui...@hotmail.com
Carl Fletcher
> They don't mind interfering in the private lives of people who they
> seek to control, which is quite different from true libertarian
> philosophy. Libertarians aren't out there trying to get
> constitutional amendments passed prohibiting abortion, and so on.
>
> [interesting comments snipped]
Admittedly this is a loose use of the term. You are correct in your
response. However, they are radicals and extremeist, gov't cannot
and should not do anything to interfere with the whims of the states
or corporations.
> Republican "progressive" policies seem to be pretty scarce in the 20th
> century, anyhow. They set up ludicrous monetary policies that led to
> the Depression, then kicked and screamed over the New Deal, spent two
> decades Red-baiting the American political scene, and finally brought
> in an overt racist as an American President - and still speak his name
> in hushed, reverential tones.
>
> I don't see the GOP as being progressive at all.
>
We disagree, but I like what yo said about Regan.
I should have said relatively progressive. It was the "Southern Bulls",
Democrats,
in Congress that blocked the New Deal's efforts to improve labor rights
in the South. To this very day most of the former Confederacy has "right
to work" laws to block unions. Would you call the racist Mr. Woodrow
Wilson a friend to the AfAm community? How about Mr Truman?
He wrote in his diary, " . . . I'd rather be a nigger that a yellow
Chinaman . . .".
The Democrats also help whip up the immigrant fever in the 1920's.
Read some of William Jennings Bryant speeches, then you'll know
what I mean about relativism.
> NO one is as far out as Buchanan, who is an outright fascist. His
> voting record sets him up as a good Republican, but I agree, it
> doesn't look impressive.
>
I disagree. Buchannan is in the mainstream. He like Bennet, Simpson,
Goldwater, MaCain, Hatch, Helms, Thurmand, Lott, Gramm and the
rest would repeal the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act. More-
over, they are trying to affect this by screening the court so that it
becomes and remains a bulwark against more "legislation from the
bench".
> >These are the repugnant unrepentant "Dixecrats" I spoke of.
>
> Well, we had D'amato in New York, before that tick got dislodged, and
> Reagan from California, and Hatch and Bennett from Utah - and none of
> these are "Dixiecrats". There's plenty more, in case you're checking.
>
I lived in Utah for 2.5 years, I can say with confidence, politically Utah
is
NOT progressive, infact, its politics are very close to those of the
southern
states Mississippi and Alabama and the rest. Idaho, Montana, Idaho, Wy-
oming, Utah and Washington are considered the white man's (therfore
God's) country. Are suprised that Mark Fuhrman moved tho Idaho from
LA.
>
> No, I haven't.
>
I think it's called "My kind of Black People" by Lawrence somebody.
I am no hot-house orchid, but, why is your tone so harsh? I notice that
brothers in this group talk in tones that would be shouts in person. To
me this invites an ass-whuppin'. Tone it down a piece brother, I am
just talkin' unless of course you are handing out an invitation.
Salaam,
CF.
Alice Holman
coquinegra wrote:
> In article <38113a9c...@news.earthlink.net>,
> REMOVE-THI...@excite.com wrote:
>
> > How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
>
> This has to be a joke.
> No, Armstrong is often on TV for comic relief.
> He's not capable of articulating any REAL point
> of view, he's passionate, but inarticulate.
Geez, did you see the Tavis Smiley show Tuesday (the 26th) when Elenor
Holmes-Norton offered to slap his face - on both sides. That made my
day. He was doing all that screaming and talking over everybody. I think
we could say he was "working her nerves."
alice
>
DarkStar
put forth:
>In article <38113a9c...@news.earthlink.net>,
> REMOVE-THI...@excite.com wrote:
>
>> How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
>
>This has to be a joke.
>No, Armstrong is often on TV for comic relief.
He does present himself poorly.
He has been doing "better" on BET's "Lead Story," but he seems to
really lose it on shows like "Crossfire."
I'll give him credit for taking a fire to Republicans on some racial
issues. But, still, Williams is questionable.
---
"Corporatized or idealized, hip-hop is the American Dream and the African
American Nightmare rolled into one fat-ass blunt."
Charles Aaron Spin (Nov.1998)
Ed Brown - dark...@ex-pressnet.com
http://www.charm.net/~darkstar
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>
>I'll give him credit for taking a fire to Republicans on some racial
>issues. But, still, Williams is questionable.
You said on your website that you don't take Williams seriously
because he says the bigger divide is between class and not race. And
you went on to say that even though you are a "buppie" you still get
looked at like a criminal. So then what is your response to Jesse
Jackson's famous but much regretted comment about being relieved when
he turns around on a street at night and sees it is not a black behind
him?
coquinegra
"Carl Fletcher" <ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
> I think it's called "My kind of Black People" by Lawrence somebody.
Lawrence Otis Graham, also author of "Member of the Club".
After what I heard him say on NPR and "BET Tonight", I
opten NOT to buy that one. I'm glad he's doing well, but
he's a tiny bit too hung up on class for me.
Kim
Cheryl Deering
coquinegra wrote:
> In article <380F7C34...@americasm01.nt.com>,
> "Carl Fletcher" <ca...@nortelnetworks.com> wrote:
>
> > I think it's called "My kind of Black People" by Lawrence somebody.
>
> Lawrence Otis Graham, also author of "Member of the Club".
> After what I heard him say on NPR and "BET Tonight", I
> opten NOT to buy that one. I'm glad he's doing well, but
> he's a tiny bit too hung up on class for me.
Really? What did he say?
C.
**
bjc...@azstarnet.com
> <snip> I don't understand the concept of conservatism, to tell you the
> truth.
> <snip> I can't understand how any Black person
> can stand to associate themselves with that crew.
That's precisely why I could never register myself as a Republican.
HOWEVER, I, along with you, Wayne, and quite a few folks here in scaam
(Alice Holman, my friend, you, too -- IMHO!) -- really do regularly
express what might be considered "conservative" values like, as you
correctly stated, most AfAms do "when you really think about it."
We place a premium on education; we want our children to do well in school
so they can start their own businesses (or second option, get and hold
good job); we want them to take care of and raise the children they bring
into the world; we want them to be law-abiding citizens; we want them to
own their own homes; we want them to be happy. And -- I don't mean to
start a firestorm about religion -- but the Church has always been at the
center of the Black community.
Wayne, in another thread, you commented:
> At some point, a guy who is very familiar with the justice system should
> be saying, "Damn, I don't think I want to get involved in this stuff any
> more." Why don't they do this, and leave the WHITE DA's without any
> Black folks to mistreat?
That statement would be considered a conservative point of view.
Now we might acknowledge another element of injustice, such as racial
profiling, that hardline conservatives would automatically dismiss, but
bottom line, the conservative Republican retort to charges of this type of
harassment might be something to the effect that, "Well, if they weren't
causing trouble, they wouldn't be in a situation to get pulled over in the
first place!"
Personally, I call myself a moderate conservative Democrat. Works for me
and it's probably pretty darn close to how I view things. Help yourself
first before you look to someone else; but if you need a boost to get
there, I'm there for you.
Sheri
Who, even with that label, still can't trust good ole "compassionate
conservative" Dub-yah
Terrance Heath
>We place a premium on education; we want our children to do well in school
>so they can start their own businesses (or second option, get and hold
>good job); we want them to take care of and raise the children they bring
>into the world; we want them to be law-abiding citizens; we want them to
>own their own homes; we want them to be happy. And -- I don't mean to
>start a firestorm about religion -- but the Church has always been at the
>center of the Black community.
I was with you right up until the last sentence. When it comes to
conservatives, I find I can at least sit down at the table with the "economic"
conservatives, even though I have many differences with them (black and white).
The "social" conservatives," however tend to mix religion into their politics.
Growing up gay in the black community, I also found that church was a central
factor in the black community, but for me it was the most repressive factor and
one I couldn't wait to get away from.
Since then, I've grown up and moved to a city where I can live my life as a
black gay man in relative peace (Washington, DC), and become a practicing
Buddhist (which I find much less repressive than my Baptist upbringing).
However, my experience growing up, and my work in politics over the last few
years makes me suspicious of conservatives of the J.C. Watts and Alan Keyes
variety, who freely mix religion in their politics, evem referring to America
as a "Christian Nation," when in fact we are a nation made up of people
practicing many different faiths (or practicing no faith at all). I can't help
but wonder what place someone like me holds in such a conservative's view of
what this country could be.
*************
Do not say anything harsh; what you have said will be said back to you.
Angry talk is painful; retaliation will get you.
Buddha
Terrance Heath
Phoe...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/PhoenixDC/index.html
DarkStar
(The Devil's Advocate©) put forth:
>On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:33:49 CST, dark...@ex-pressnet.com (DarkStar)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>I'll give him credit for taking a fire to Republicans on some racial
>>issues. But, still, Williams is questionable.
>
>You said on your website that you don't take Williams seriously
>because he says the bigger divide is between class and not race.
Here is what is on the website:
http://www.charm.net/~darkstar/black_conservatives.html
"I have to be honest in saying that many of what they say, appeals to
me because they are saying the same things my family and I believes
in. When J.C. Watts speaks of family values, how can I object when I
believe he is right? When Armstrong Williams speaks of hard work being
the key to success, how can I disagree? But, when Williams states that
he believes class is more of an issue than race, I have to disagree!
Why, for example, do I still get "shadowed" in stores even though I
can be called a Buppie? And the garbage that Ken Hamblin spews on his
radio program... "
Your parsing of my statement is "interesting."
This reminds me to update that page, especially about J.C. Watts.
>And
>you went on to say that even though you are a "buppie" you still get
>looked at like a criminal. So then what is your response to Jesse
>Jackson's famous but much regretted comment about being relieved when
>he turns around on a street at night and sees it is not a black behind
>him?
My much familiar reply is that if Jesse feels this way, he is wrong
and a fool. And it's for the same reasons why I find "shadowing" to be
insulting.
coquinegra
Cheryl Deering <dee...@primenet.com> wrote:
> > Lawrence Otis Graham, also author of "Member of the Club".
> > After what I heard him say on NPR and "BET Tonight", I
> > opten NOT to buy that one. I'm glad he's doing well, but
> > he's a tiny bit too hung up on class for me.
>
> Really? What did he say?
I liked "Member of the Club" and I went to see Mr. Graham when he
visited the U. of MD Law school on his book tour. what I read
and what he said lead me to belive he is a little concerned
with class. then, with the new book, in which he presumably
extolls the virtues of being able to be in the "Links" and
other paper-bag societies and the nasty way he treated Eric Dyson
on "BET Tonight" made my decision for me. No money from my
pocke for this one. Also, I suppose my own ghetto roots make me
a little sensitive to these upper class Black folks who are
just as exclusionary as white society has been.
Jerome Walker
coquinegra <coqui...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <38113a9c...@news.earthlink.net>,
> REMOVE-THI...@excite.com wrote:
>
>> How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
>
>This has to be a joke.
>No, Armstrong is often on TV for comic relief.
>of view, he's passionate, but inarticulate.
Does he word buffoon mean anything to you?
>Anyway, I wasn't thinking of the Jerry Springer-type
>ring master, but a real voice. I think Tony
>Brown is a legitimate voice, as is Rev. Dr. Flake,
>and probably others, but no, A.W. does not count.
>
Rev. Flake has legitimacy. He and Powell may be the only one's who do.
--
"Ignorance is the thing that makes most men get into a political party and
shame is what keeps them from getting out of it." - George Savile
Jerome Walker
olan
artcl...@aol.com (Art Clemons) wrote:
>
> In the late 60's & early 70's, when Brown's was about the only dark
face on
> national public television, he called himself conservative. He began
to
> distance himself when conservatives began claiming racism as one of
the
> inherent bylaws for being conservative.
> -art clemons-
>
may
be socialists or communists who call themselves liberals, but I don't
know of any inherent bylaws stating that racism is a prerequisite for
being a conservative.
--
olan
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>Rev. Flake has legitimacy. He and Powell may be the only one's who do.
Powell's more of a moderate.
regards,
The Devil's Advocate @ earthlink.net
"Don't be fooled by cheap imitations!"
coquinegra
wal...@panix.com (Jerome Walker) wrote:
> Rev. Flake has legitimacy. He and Powell may be the
> only one's who do.
Will wonders never cease? Cousin Jerome and I may agree
on something. One question: is Colin Powell conservative?
I know he's a Republican, but the two are not synonymous.
> --
> "Ignorance is the thing that makes most men get into a political party
and
> shame is what keeps them from getting out of it." - George Savile
>
> Jerome Walker
>
>
--
"Gospel, jazz and R&B or Bachata, merengue y Salsa.
Depends on the time of day. Any questions?"
coqui...@hotmail.com
Art Clemons
>There may be racists who call themselves conservatives, just as there
>may
>be socialists or communists who call themselves liberals, but I don't
>know of any inherent bylaws stating that racism is a prerequisite for
>being a conservative.
However conservatism is the cover under which most racists hide, whether they
call themselves dixiecrats or republicans. Your point is moot anyway. Leftists
normally disdain being called liberal, you might want to read condemnation of
liberals by leftists before you make such a claim.
-art clemons-
Carl Fletcher
> On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:55:43 CST, coquinegra <coqui...@hotmail.com>
> put forth:
>
> >> How 'bout Armstrong Williams?
> >
> >This has to be a joke.
> >No, Armstrong is often on TV for comic relief.
>
> He does present himself poorly.
>
> He has been doing "better" on BET's "Lead Story," but he seems to
> really lose it on shows like "Crossfire."
>
> I'll give him credit for taking a fire to Republicans on some racial
> issues. But, still, Williams is questionable.
>
Armstrong Williams gets no respect from me. I find him quite illiterate
and ahistorical. He recently wrote a commentary in Emerge equating
the activities of Malcolm X, the NOI and the Panthers. He seemed to
imply that the Black Power Movement incited whites from their normal
benificence to reactionary resent of African Americans. Here is a man
who has a near child-like adoration of Strom (Sperm) Thurmond.
To credit him with the recognition and criticism of Republican racism
means nothing to me. He is like Alan Keyes who uses hyperbolic
language with regard to everything finally recognizes rascism when its
flame seers their own @#$. He recently accussed reporters of racism for
no recognizing that he won the recent Republican debate. Finally,
Williams' inablitity to listen to and respect his opponents in debates,
most of whom are his elders, reflects his immaturity and intemperance!
Furthermore, it reflects his hypocrisy, advocating ". . . values" that
he does not practice. So typical of the William Bennet crowd of
Republicans, disgusting!!!
It really bothers me that so many of these 'conservatives' show Rev.
Jesse
L. Jackson the back of their hands have nothing to offer. The often
quote Dr MLK, but, Rev Jackson was there. He has put his life on
the line by marching in the '60s, challenging the Chicago machine
in the 70's and running for president twice in the 80's. Tireless ad-
vocate of Black empowerment in the 90's. Inspite of all of his
failings, I challenge his critics to match his record in any decade!
JC Watts was running with a damn football and getting various
young ladies pregnant in the 70s and 80s so leave him out!
Salaam,
CF.