Potential Gown Problems?(Tall Bride)
Gesa Behrens
Sarah wrote:
>
> Hi! I am wondering if I am going to have a problem when I start looking
> for a wedding gown. I am 6'1" and wear a size 14 or 16 in "street clothes."
> I've recently been reading about the wide fluctuations in sizes on
> wedding gowns, and how many places charge exorbitant fees for "large"
> sizes. Does anyone know if this could end up applying to me? I have
> visions of having to order a size 20 gown and getting charged $300 extra...
>
> Also, I am concerned about the dress being long enough. All my friends
> who have recently married are around 5'2" or so, so of course the dresses
> were way too long on them. The ones I have seen in stores all seem very
> long, but I've never tried one on, so I don't really know how they will
> hang.
>
> Anyone out there have any experience with being (or knowing) a tall bride?
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Sarah (& Brian, who's 5'11 1/2" and doesn't mind at all being shorter!)
> 8-8-98
Hi Sarah:
I'm a tall bride too - 6 foot even - and typically wear size 12 to 14.
When I went to the bridal salons, all their gowns were too short for me,
by quite a bit, actually. I was told by two different bridal salons that
I would have to order an extra-tall gown which would add 20% to the cost
of the gown. At first I was shocked -- 20% on a $1k dress is a whopping
$200! Typical bridal store scam. But I've thought about it and I guess
that's not really *that* outrageous when you think about how much silk
they will have to add to the usually-very-wide-bottom of the skirt to
make it 6" longer... (Still a scam though...)
The main problem is the bodice, though. If you order an extra-tall
dress, all they do is add fabric to the bottom of it - they won't extend
the bodice length. My upper body is about 1 to 2" longer than the
typical woman, so the bodice wouldn't fit right at all. Sleeveless dress
would hang way too low, or in dresses with sleeves, the waist would be
much too high. If you bought such a dress, a seamstress wouldn't be able
to alter the dress to make you fit either - there is not enough spare
fabric in the seam between the bodice and the skirt (I checked).
So the only recourse for us tall women who want to have a dress that
fits right in the waist is to have the dress made. I checked out some
seamstress prices and had another shock, and then decided to make the
dress myself.
Gesa 8/30/97 - who absolutely hates shopping for clothes because nothing
(except maybe socks) ever fits me!
Braeg Torgin
Sarah wrote:
>
> Hi! I am wondering if I am going to have a problem when I start
looking
> for a wedding gown. I am 6'1" and wear a size 14 or 16 in "street
clothes."
Gesa Behrens wrote:
> Hi Sarah:
>
> I'm a tall bride too - 6 foot even - and typically wear size 12 to 14.
Let's hear it for the Amazon brides!!! I myself am also 6 foot even,
and
although not a size 12-16, (give me some time) I already know the hassle
of
the bridal routine for anyone of a larger size- width or length. I am
due to
be a MOH in a friend's wedding this June, and my dress will be over $200
more than the other bridesmaids. I have to order a size 20 because I
don't
quite meet their requirements for the "regular" sizes, AND I have to get
extra length added to cover my legs. So I end up paying $400 for a dress
I wouldn't be buried in. Ah well, when I get married, I can pass the
curse of the ill-fitting, overpriced and shoddily made dresses
to someone else. Until it comes time to pay for the little extras on
*my*
gown that is. ;) ;)
> Gesa 8/30/97 - who absolutely hates shopping for clothes because nothing
> (except maybe socks) ever fits me!
AmenAmenAmenAmen!!!! PS: I've found men's stores carry better selection,
prices and quality in my size clothes than most of the "Tall Boutiques"
I've
been to. Great for that casual look, but not so great for formal events!
(Unless you like tuxedos) ;) ;0 :)
~Tami, Warrior Princess (and Jeff, her faithful male sidekick)
10/98
PAuL
Braeg Torgin wrote:
>
> Sarah wrote:
> >
> > Hi! I am wondering if I am going to have a problem when I start
> looking
> > for a wedding gown. I am 6'1" and wear a size 14 or 16 in "street
> clothes."
> (snip of worries over exorbitant charges and correct fitting)
>
> Gesa Behrens wrote:
> > Hi Sarah:
> >
> > I'm a tall bride too - 6 foot even - and typically wear size 12 to 14.
>
> Let's hear it for the Amazon brides!!! I myself am also 6 foot even,
> and
> although not a size 12-16, (give me some time)
Whats the differrence ?? 12 is 12, 14 to 16 cant be much.
I already know the hassle
> of
> the bridal routine for anyone of a larger size- width or length. I am
> due to
> be a MOH in a friend's wedding this June, and my dress will be over $200
> more than the other bridesmaids. I have to order a size 20 because I
> don't
> quite meet their requirements for the "regular" sizes, AND I have to get
> extra length added to cover my legs. So I end up paying $400 for a dress
> I wouldn't be buried in. Ah well, when I get married, I can pass the
> curse of the ill-fitting, overpriced and shoddily made dresses
> to someone else. Until it comes time to pay for the little extras on
> *my*
> gown that is. ;) ;)
>
> >
Hmm, typical female self centered response. It's okay to spend more on
me if necessary, but fuck my best friend , that bitch.
Gesa 8/30/97 - who absolutely hates shopping for clothes because
nothing
> > (except maybe socks) ever fits me!
>
> AmenAmenAmenAmen!!!! PS: I've found men's stores carry better selection,
> prices and quality in my size clothes than most of the "Tall Boutiques"
> I've
> been to. Great for that casual look, but not so great for formal events!
> (Unless you like tuxedos) ;) ;0 :)
>
Holy crap. What mens store do you shop at that has wedding dresses ??
Crossdessers - R - US ?
Shawna Cooper
Braeg Torgin wrote:
>
> Sarah wrote:
> >
> > Hi! I am wondering if I am going to have a problem when I start
> looking
> > for a wedding gown. I am 6'1" and wear a size 14 or 16 in "street
> clothes."
> (snip of worries over exorbitant charges and correct fitting)
>
> Gesa Behrens wrote:
> > Hi Sarah:
> >
> > I'm a tall bride too - 6 foot even - and typically wear size 12 to 14.
>
When we went shopping for my dress, I KNEW the one I wanted. I had
seen it, tried to slip it on, but being almost 6 foot, and not exactly
as size 6, it wasn't even close. So, I went into the store where I
bought my dress, and asked the lady if they carried that dress. Well,
there was this lady standing in front of the counter, and she turned
around to me (she didn't work there). She asked me how tall I was and
what size I was.
It turns out that she had bought the dress, for almost $2000, and had
yet to pay for the alterations. We are the same height, and same size.
Well, her now-husband is in the service, and was forced to leave for
overseas, and so they eloped, with their families blessings. Well, she
didn't wear the dress because it was at the seemstress for alterations,
and only had like a week to reorganize everything. So, she told me if I
would pay the rest of the alterations, and send her a pic of me in it,
then I could have it!!!!!
YIPPEE!!! So, I have the dress of my dreams, altered to be for a 6
foot tall person!! :) Just had to share!! Good luck to all you TALL
brides!!
Shawna
--
\|/
[o o]
*********************************oooO(_)Oooo*****
* Shawna Kathleen Cooper *
* csh...@simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
* http://simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
* *
*-"No, Robert's delicious, but I like computer *
* nerds these days." - Tori Amos *
*************************************************
Braeg Torgin
PAuL wrote:
>
> Braeg Torgin wrote:
> >
> > Sarah wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi! I am wondering if I am going to have a problem when I start
> > looking
> > > for a wedding gown. I am 6'1" and wear a size 14 or 16 in "street
> > clothes."
> > (snip of worries over exorbitant charges and correct fitting)
> >
> > Gesa Behrens wrote:
> > > Hi Sarah:
> > >
> > > I'm a tall bride too - 6 foot even - and typically wear size 12 to 14.
> >
> > and
> > although not a size 12-16, (give me some time)
>
> Whats the differrence ?? 12 is 12, 14 to 16 cant be much.
(sorry for all the he said, she said, they said, I said stuff)
Dear FlameBait,
The diffrence can be quite large when comparing designers,
styles and the like. Depending on the line, there could be
quite a price diffrence, too. Alterations usually cost an
arm and a leg, so the closer you can get to a good fit, no
matter the numbers, the more you'll save overall.
> I already know the hassle
> > of
> > the bridal routine for anyone of a larger size- width or length. I am
> > due to
> > be a MOH in a friend's wedding this June, and my dress will be over $200
> > more than the other bridesmaids. I have to order a size 20 because I
> > don't
> > quite meet their requirements for the "regular" sizes, AND I have to get
> > extra length added to cover my legs. So I end up paying $400 for a dress
> > I wouldn't be buried in. Ah well, when I get married, I can pass the
> > curse of the ill-fitting, overpriced and shoddily made dresses
> > to someone else. Until it comes time to pay for the little extras on
> > *my*
> > gown that is. ;) ;)
> >
> > >
>
> Hmm, typical female self centered response. It's okay to spend more on
> me if necessary, but fuck my best friend , that bitch.
Dear FlameBait,
Seeing as how you know neither my situation nor my humor, please
refrain from using profanity when replying to posts. I am honored to be
in my friend's weddding, and even though my dress cost twice what the
others did, I am still paying for it. And I am wearing it, without
complaint,
because it is *her* wedding, and her vision of what she wants. The humor
came in when I jokingly reffered to the curse of ill-fitting, shoddily
made
and overpriced dresses. There have been many threads devoted to this
topic,
and I believed I was in no way out of line when referring to this. I
then
stated that I would then be subject to the curse *again* when it came
time
to choose and pay for my dress, probably more so since I am not "normal"
size.
If you, or others, misunderstood, I apologize for not wording it more
clearly.
>
> Gesa 8/30/97 - who absolutely hates shopping for clothes because
> nothing
> > > (except maybe socks) ever fits me!
> >
> > AmenAmenAmenAmen!!!! PS: I've found men's stores carry better selection,
> > prices and quality in my size clothes than most of the "Tall Boutiques"
> > I've
> > been to. Great for that casual look, but not so great for formal events!
> > (Unless you like tuxedos) ;) ;0 :)
> >
>
> Holy crap. What mens store do you shop at that has wedding dresses ??
> Crossdessers - R - US ?
Dear FlameBait,
Please feel free to read the entire post before responding. I was, in
fact referring to "clothes", not bridal dresses. As in shirts, jackets
and
some brands of jeans. When you are tall, most "normally" made clothes
end
up being too short in the torso, arms and/or legs. Men's stores usually
carry
"tall" versions of clothing, where women's usually do not.
Once again,
PAuL
Xena,
I mean Tami,
I sense a large quantity of guilt in your response. I want you to start
releasing some of it, a little at a time. It is not healthy to keep it
all pent up inside of you.
PAul
Shawna Cooper
I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas. I'm
shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper. So, if you
can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
think of.. so help me out.
And PLEASE don't start a flame war over this..it's a simple question.
Braeg Torgin
PAuL wrote:
(snip of all the extranneous stuff regarding the original
post)
> Xena,
>
> I mean Tami,
>
> I sense a large quantity of guilt in your response. I want you to start
> releasing some of it, a little at a time. It is not healthy to keep it
> all pent up inside of you.
>
> PAul
Dear FlameBait,
I do not express guilt, so much as remorse, that I alone
can not make you turn away from the dark side. The temptation
of flame-baiting has too strong a hold on your soul so that
even I, a Warrior Princess, cannot save you. The only hope
for you is to go out and take many, many, nettiquite lessons
from a quailified mentor, such as Miss Manners, the High Leader
of Niceness. She will show you the light, and the wrongness
of what you have done. Now, begone, you foul servant of the
shadowed corners of the newsgroup. Get thee to a library!
PAuL
Shawna Cooper wrote:
>
> I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
> or both people has graduated from college,
To get married, or copulate?
and I need some ideas. I'm
> shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else.
Freudian slip ??????????????????????????
These do
> not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper. So, if you
> can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
> have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
> What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
> think of.. so help me out.
>
Getting some sex is the best reason I can think of. If you wait for
maturity, I'll tell you a secret,
it comes the moment before you croak.
PAuL
Miss Manners - Yuk !
You ever see the one where the Dark Stranger takes the warrior
princess??? Sure you have, cause that also is in the back of your mind.
Nice polite guys get nothing, the assholeguywhogetsallthechicks is what
you females really want. Besides guilt you are showing signs of denial.
Like I said, let some it out, it wont hurt, you'll like it.
Paul
The Gang of Steves
Adrienne Welker
Shawna Cooper (csh...@okstate.edu) wrote:
: I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
: or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas.
<snip>
Hi Shawna,
I have just been through the whole waiting to graduate ordeal. My parents
reasoned that waiting was good for maturity and finances...also for
accidents such as pregnancy. I know that those things would affect finances
and have to be dealt with by having a great deal of maturity ( :) ). Also
for some, the college "bachelor" living experience is valuable. My
parents think that even if we wait until graduate school, we'll have a degree
to fall back on so that if something happens we won't be in so much
trouble.
Good reasons to go ahead are because you want to, because you think
financial situations will be better when you are married (for example,
my parents are paying for my education so living expenses was all I had
to cover), and "why wait?"
I think I made the right decision for me, though, even though it was
terribly disappointing after planning for so long (I just got the
invitations in the mail (couldn't cancel them in time) :( ).
I hope your paper is a success!!
--Adrienne
Barbara Elizabeth Warner
Shawna Cooper (csh...@okstate.edu) wrote:
:So if you can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know.
: And if you have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those
: too.
: What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
: think of.. so help me out.
I don't htink this has been menitoned yet: waiting because of careerd (not
just education). FOr instance, if I were to marry my fiance right now
(he's working, I'm at law school), I would be stuck not only going to
school in his city (since he couldn't get a job in his field in my city)
but also limiting my career choices to that city. When you're legally
single while finishing your education, that may give you more leeway in
where to work (geogrpahically, and in terms of the field of work) than if
you marry part way through school and thus have two educational pathsm, or
two jobs, or one of each to contend with in a big way, at every decision
point in your lives.
As it stands now, the plan is for me to start my career in his city when I
graudate, but because we're not established there together at the moment
(con't own a house,etc), this is a plan *only* and may change depending
on my career opportunities.
One reason for *not* waiting is the length of your education. The
original poster's question may not have explicitly mentioned which level
of education we're taligna bout graduating from -- but if it's an
undergrad degree, than it might be feasible for most (but not all!) people
to wait. Yet, if we're talking about post-secondary education graduation
generally, that includes graduating from grad school, professional
schools (law, medicine, dentistry,etc) and even a PhD program. It's
understandable that someone in their second or third degree might not have
the same pressures or reasons to wait until graduation.
Oh, and even if we're talking about graduation from undergraduate
programs, there may be an implicit assumption that undergrad program will
only take 3 - 4 years anyway, so what's the rush. A number of students
take their degrees part time (for various reasons) and odn't want to put
the rest of their lives (including their committed relationship with their
partners) on hold while they wait to finish. My sister, for example, is
tkaign a BA part time due to health problems, and if she had decided to
wait to graduate, she would be getting married 4 years later than she
actually did. It just wouldn't make sense in that case to wait, just for
the sake of receiving her degree before signing her marriage certificate.
So, I hope I've added to both sides of the discussion -- my sister and I
have taken the opposing sides on this in real life and it seems to be
working just fine!
In terms of the paper, Shawna, it might be best to spell out the
definitions of 'graduating from college' (ie you mean from undergrad only,
any program, etc) and in what time frame (pt time, full time; both), sot
hat your reader doens't have to guess at what assumptins might be hiding
in what you've written. Just a suggestion from a sympathetic essay writer!
--Barbara
(who wishes her fever would cease so that she could get back to
concentrating on *her* paper!)
Michelle Poole
Shawna Cooper wrote:
>
> I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
> shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
> not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper. So, if you
> can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
> have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
> What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
> think of.. so help me out.
>
>
> Shawna
> --
> \|/
> [o o]
> *********************************oooO(_)Oooo*****
> * Shawna Kathleen Cooper *
> * csh...@simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
> * http://simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
> * *
> *-"No, Robert's delicious, but I like computer *
> * nerds these days." - Tori Amos *
> *************************************************
Shawna,
In my situation, we are not waiting until I graduate. As for the
financial part, my fiancee and I are already paying for my education,
anything that the loans and scholarships don't pay. The financial aid I
get is based on my parent's income, and we (of course) make less than
them. So it would actually be beneficial to my educational expenses if
we were married. The only drawback of this is that my dad's medical
insurance is 100% coverage, whereas Dave's is only 80-90%. Oh well,
that is something I can live with.
The maturity part depends on the person. (this is not a flame) My
parents were divorced early on in my childhood, and due to numerous
problems, I had to grow up really fast. People always tell me that I am
extremely mature for my age (20), so I don't think the maturity part
will be a problem for me.
I hope this helps on the "pro's" of getting married before you
graduate.
Michelle
--
MZ
Vicki Robinson
In a previous article, Shawna Cooper <csh...@okstate.edu> said:
>I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
>or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas. I'm
>shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
>not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper.
Shawna,
Maybe what your instructor had in mind, in assigning this paper, is
for you to go to the library and ask the librarian for some help in
unearthing valid surveys and studies about your topic. I'm sure that
they are out there, with facts, figures and anecdotal evidence; a good
reference librarian can point you in the right direction.
Asking on a newsgroup is a kind of research, but remember that we are
self-selected and not representative of the population as a whole.
Your paper would be much more persuasive and thorough if there were
some real academic research behind it.
Vicki [who would be utterly dismayed to discover that even one of her
students considered a Usenet newsgroup a good place to do academic
inquiry.]
--
Vicki Robinson
<blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
</a>. My guest book is operative again; stop by!
Karin Bear
Braeg Torgin (bto...@holly.colostate.edu) wrote:
: Dear FlameBait,
<snip wonderful flamebait kiss-off>
Wonderful reaction! Giving him what he deserves without losing your
dignity or dropping to his flaming level.
: ~Tami, Warrior Princess
: (and Jeff, her faithful male sidekick)
Wishing I had that much self-control more often,
-- Karin (and Kevin too)
Karen L Greenberg
Shawna Cooper (csh...@okstate.edu) wrote:
: I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
: or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas. I'm
: shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
: can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
: have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
: What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
: think of.. so help me out.
It would help to know exactly who you're talking about--are you limiting
your paper to a discussion of people who are pursuing a 4 year undergrad
degree immediately after completing high school and are between the ages
of approx. 17 and 23? Are you also considering people who choose not to
attend college, or don't have the opportunity at that age? What about
graduate students? Is this about "people in general" or "specific people
in specific situations"?
In general, though:
1) Social definitions of maturity. How do your families and peers
define "all grown up" or "old enough to get married"? Obviously, the
ultimate "readiness" factor relates to the parties involved, but if the
B&G are ready to get married and nobody else is ready to support that
decision, they may have some rough times if they choose not to wait.
(This is *not* the same as "maturity". The point is that even if you are
"old enough", nobody else may want to accept that.)
2) Balancing professional and personal responsibilities/expectations.
This came into play for us when my husband was applying to law school.
We were not yet engaged at the time, and he said "Well, I'll go to the
best school I get into, and you can come along". I said, hey, if I'm
going to be following you somewhere for 3 years, I get some say in where
we go. For us, that worked just fine--but if you are looking at being
married and spending several years in a long-distance relationship
because your schools/your jobs are not in the same area, it may be very
difficult. (We will actually be living in different cities this summer
due to different professional responsibilities, and people are incredibly
clueless--they tend to assume that I will follow Kevin to Denver for the
summer, despite the fact that would mean quitting my job and going out
there with absolutely nothing to do besides Be A Wife.) Again, it comes
down to the couple involved--but people tend to expect married people to
live together all the time, and often, people expect wives to follow
their husbands.
Karen
--
Karen L. Greenberg
k...@sas.upenn.edu
PAuL
If its's self control you lack, Depends is an alternative that will let
you lead a full and active life. They just dont look too good when
wearing a bikini.
Dr. Paul
Incontinence Specailist- The gang of steves
Charles Forsythe
In message <32F3C1...@okstate.edu> - Shawna Cooper <csh...@okstate.edu>
writes:
>I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
>or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas.
Here's one I haven't seen:
Marriage is stressed by major life changes. Graduation is a life change.
Career changes, the arrival of children, and the children starting school are
others. All of these are statistically high-divorce periods.
The thing with career changes and children is that usually the marriage has
had some time to solidify and mature before the stress hits. Also, there's
some degree of control over them. Most of the time, you decide when you want
the kids or the job change.
Graduation, particularly undergraduate is probably the biggest life-change of
them all -- and it usually arrives after 4 years of college whether you want
it to or not:-). I remember when I graduated, job interviewers would
invariably ask me what I wanted to be doing in 5 years and I honestly had no
earthly idea. Most of my peers were the same. We just figured we'd get out
there and see. It's pretty stupid to make a lifetime commitment when you
can't see five years in the future to any degree at all. Some students,
particularly those in ROTC or with firm grad-school ambitions were a little
more directed. This really brings us to the maturity question others have
mentioned.
In any case, if two people in any situation are planning to get married, and
their answer to "Where do you see yourselves in 5 years" is "I have no idea,
but we'll be married" I'd say they're in trouble. A major life change,
without a goal to focus on will put major stress on the relationship. That
doesn't mean it will disolve, but it means it won't be easy.
Lots of people fit into the "heading for trouble" category described above,
but undergraduates or high-school students are obviously in it. After all,
they are notoriously clueless about their future and the have a completely
predictable life-changing event (graduation) in their near future. I'd
suggest that people be urges to wait 9 months after graduation to set the date
for a wedding. At that age, there's no need to rush into anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Forsythe -- fors...@onramp.net -- Dallas Texas
"Netscape is not wasting their time on an OS/2 release."
-- Edward "Truthman" Ledger just before the OS/2 Netscape beta shipped
dc...@gbd.com
> >shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
> >not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper.
>
>
> Maybe what your instructor had in mind, in assigning this paper, is
> for you to go to the library and ask the librarian for some help in
> unearthing valid surveys and studies about your topic. I'm sure that
> they are out there, with facts, figures and anecdotal evidence; a good
> reference librarian can point you in the right direction.
>
> Asking on a newsgroup is a kind of research, but remember that we are
> self-selected and not representative of the population as a whole.
> Your paper would be much more persuasive and thorough if there were
> some real academic research behind it.
>
> Vicki [who would be utterly dismayed to discover that even one of her
> students considered a Usenet newsgroup a good place to do academic
> inquiry.]
>
> --
> Vicki Robinson
> <blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
> Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
Alisa A, Stoll
Shawna,
I got married 15 years ago when my husband had graduated and I was half way through my undergrad
program. Why? I had an ROTC scholarship and my husband didn't want the army telling him where to live.
I wouldn't give up the scholarship without a signed marriage license so we got married between my sophmore
and junior years of a BSEE. This was only a year earlier than we planned on getting married.
Advantages:
We had four years of togetherness before children - starting at 24 1/2 for me 26 1/2 for him
so we'll have plenty of quality time after the kids are out of the house also ;> The longer you wait to
get married, the shorter the togetherness time is before children or the later it will be in your lives
before the kids are grown up. Course you can always have a "late in life" baby and still not have that
extra time.
Disadvantages:
I had to transfer universities because my husband couldn't get a job in my original university
town. I survived the transfer.
As mentioned earlier, when graduating - it made things interesting on the job search as my
husband had a job that he really liked in town. I found a good job locally.
Most adults are still growing and developing during college and the first few years of working -
there's a danger that this growth will take the couple in different directions. It didn't for us.
hope this helps
Alisa
kathryn e epstein
Distribution:
Oops, I hit the wrong button and only sent this privately to the poster.
Sorry about that.
What I meant to post as a follow-up is that if marriage is so incredibly
vulnerable to major life changes, we'd better wait until after we have
kids. Or after retirement. Or maybe after you're dead.
Or maybe if marriage can't handle major life changes, we should all call
the whole thing off.
Kate
*>HailStone<*
On 3 Feb 1997, Charles Forsythe wrote:
> In message <32F3C1...@okstate.edu> - Shawna Cooper <csh...@okstate.edu>
> writes:
> >I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
> >or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas.
>
> Here's one I haven't seen:
>
> Marriage is stressed by major life changes. Graduation is a life change.
> Career changes, the arrival of children, and the children starting school are
> others. All of these are statistically high-divorce periods.
That's a bit OTT isn't it? All graduation means is you finally have to go
off and find a job - big deal! Most students go through the experiences
of this in their spare time or Summer holidays anyway.
>
> The thing with career changes and children is that usually the marriage has
> had some time to solidify and mature before the stress hits. Also, there's
> some degree of control over them. Most of the time, you decide when you want
> the kids or the job change.
Stress hits any time in life, and any time in a relationship. AS a
student some of the biggest stress factors are is the house going to be
broken into whilst I'm away over the holidays and exams and essay
deadlines. Just because someone hasn't graduated doesn't mean they aren't
already suffering stress - my fiance had 6 burgalries in 2 months in his
1st year - that put stress on our relationship but we got through it.
Since we had milk poisoned by toerh students, the car vandilised by other
students, the car stolen....one reason we would love for it to be
possible to marry before graduating is so that we can find a house for
just the two of us and not have to share with other students. We will be
getting married in 98 though, just after I have graduated and a year
before my fiance graduates. I doubt if that would put too much extra
stress on us...compared to what we've already been through together.
>
> Graduation, particularly undergraduate is probably the biggest life-change of
> them all --
I don't think so...bigger than leaving school? Bigger than finding out if
you're actually going to university or not? Bigger than leaving home for
the first time to go t university? Bigger than parents getting divorced?
Bigger than having children?
and it usually arrives after 4 years of college whether you want
> it to or not:-). I remember when I graduated, job interviewers would
> invariably ask me what I wanted to be doing in 5 years and I honestly had no
> earthly idea. Most of my peers were the same. We just figured we'd get out
> there and see. It's pretty stupid to make a lifetime commitment when you
> can't see five years in the future to any degree at all.
Is it? I don't think so. So I should wait til 5 yrs after after
graduating to get married? So I don't know what sort of job I will get in
the end - I have hopes for 5 years off but the world isn't a stable place
where you get all you want all of the time. What if I didn't get a job?
Should I wait until it's garanted to set a wedding date? Well, that's not
what I want to do so I'm not.
>
> In any case, if two people in any situation are planning to get married, and
> their answer to "Where do you see yourselves in 5 years" is "I have no idea,
> but we'll be married" I'd say they're in trouble.
Why? SOme people would answer "I have no idea" without the married bit -
isn't that a little bit less direction?
A major life change,
> without a goal to focus on will put major stress on the relationship. That
> doesn't mean it will disolve, but it means it won't be easy.
>
Well, I'm sure it will be easier than what I;i've already gone through
(see above)
> Lots of people fit into the "heading for trouble" category described above,
> but undergraduates or high-school students are obviously in it. After all,
> they are notoriously clueless about their future and the have a completely
> predictable life-changing event (graduation) in their near future. I'd
> suggest that people be urges to wait 9 months after graduation to set the date
> for a wedding. At that age, there's no need to rush into anything.
ISn't there? Not even if you know what you want? I might "only be 20"
but I'll be 22 when get married - my parents were married at 21 - I just
think people assume that just because you're in your 20's you can't make
your own decisions - well I've been making my own decisions since 15 on
major life changing events.
>
__ __ _ _______ __
__/|_ / / / /___ _(_) / ___// /_____ ____ ___ __/|_
| / / /_/ / __ `/ / /\__ \/ __/ __ \/ __ \/ _ \ | /
/_ __| / __ / /_/ / / /___/ / /_/ /_/ / / / / __/ /_ __|
|/ /_/ /_/\__,_/_/_//____/\__/\____/_/ /_/\___/ |/
% hst...@grex.cyberspace.org %%%% http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1923 %
Nancy Andersen
>I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
>or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas. I'm
>shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
>not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper. So, if you
>can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
>have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
>What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
>think of.. so help me out.
> And PLEASE don't start a flame war over this..it's a simple question.
>Shawna
Hi, Shawna -
Well, one of the main reasons to wait until after graduation could be
finances.
I'm a public relations writer at a university. I would say the majority of our
students work full- or part-time while earning their degrees, but that doesn't
mean that they're making a lot of money - particularly the undergraduates, who
work in retail shops, restaurants, etc., in jobs that pay an hourly wage and
don't have good health insurance, life insurance, etc. These students may be
struggling to pay their bills, tuition, books, etc. and would struggle to pay
the bills that come with a wedding. If they haven't been living together,
they'd also have the expenses that come with setting up a new home (new
furniture, higher apartment rent, etc).
I know some people say that two can live cheaper than one and that
marrying while you're still in college means that your partner can contribute
toward your tuition. But if your partner is also a student, you'd have to
contribute to his or her tuition as well, and so the extra money that would
come with marriage would be swallowed up.
However, if the couple waits until after they graduate and are employed
full-time in salaried jobs, they are less likely to have to struggle to pay
their bills. They won't have the extra expense of tuition, fees, books, etc.,
and they're more likely to have access to health insurance, life insurance,
etc., through their employers.
IMO, if a college couple is worried about finances, it's better for them to
wait until at least one of them has graduated and has a stable, salaried job
before the couple marries.
In our case, I work full-time while Ken works part-time and
goes to graduate school, so I'll be paying a larger share of the rent than
Ken. But it won't be a financial hardship for me to support Ken for two years
while he finishes his degree. We'll have less disposable income than I had
when my paycheck was mine alone. But we certainly won't be living paycheck to
paycheck and struggling to pay our bills.
Nancy (and Ken)
May 17, 1997
Nancy Andersen
>On 3 Feb 1997, Charles Forsythe wrote:
>> In message <32F3C1...@okstate.edu> - Shawna Cooper <csh...@okstate.edu>
>> writes:
>> >I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
>> >or both people has graduated from college, and I need some ideas.
>>
>> Here's one I haven't seen:
>>
>> Marriage is stressed by major life changes. Graduation is a life change.
>> Career changes, the arrival of children, and the children starting school are
>> others. All of these are statistically high-divorce periods.
>That's a bit OTT isn't it? All graduation means is you finally have to go
>off and find a job - big deal! Most students go through the experiences
>of this in their spare time or Summer holidays anyway.
Hi -
I have to agree with Charles. Working in your first full-time, salaried job
after graduation means a big adjustment in your lifestyle.
When I was an undergraduate, I worked in a part-time job that I arranged
around my schedule of classes. I worked for maybe four hours a day at varying
times during the week.
But when I graduated, I was away from home 10 hours a day, and at work nine of
those hours. I had to get up at the same time every day to get to work, which
meant that I had to change when I went to bed at night. There was no
flexibility; no "well, I don't have an early class tomorrow and don't have to
work until afternoon, so I guess I can stay out late with my friends tonight."
Also, the work in my first full-time job was stressful because it was
no longer just a job to help pay my tuition - it was the first step in my
career. So I worked harder in my first year than I had ever worked in
any of my part-time jobs. When I got home in the evening, I was mentally
drained. You have to work this way if you expect to learn something from your
first full-time job and help your career.
So I think Charles is right - adjusting to marriage is stressful, but so is
losing the flexibility of a college student's schedule and adjusting to the
"real world." It's a mistake for many people to take on both at once, and it's
better for them to wait nine months or so after graduation before setting a
wedding date.
Nancy (and Ken)
(who have absolutely no regret to getting married eight years after graduation)
May 17, 1997
snoss
Shawna Cooper wrote:
>
> I have been assigned a paper on why it is best to wait until after one
> shooting blanks right now, and can't think of anything else. These do
> not have to be my feelings, I just have to write this paper. So, if you
> can think of reasons why it's best to wait, let me know. And if you
> have reasons why you should go ahead and marry, I need those too.
> What I've got so far is finances and maturity..but that's all I can
> think of.. so help me out.
>
> And PLEASE don't start a flame war over this..it's a simple question.
>
> Shawna
> \|/
> [o o]
> *********************************oooO(_)Oooo*****
> * Shawna Kathleen Cooper *
> * csh...@simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
> * http://simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
> * *
> *-"No, Robert's delicious, but I like computer *
> * nerds these days." - Tori Amos *
> *************************************************
Shawna,
Speaking from experience - I wish I had waited. I am 40 now, and
planning my SECOND wedding.
I believe that getting married while we were still in school was a
contributing factor to the relationship not working. We graduated only 6
- 9 months after we married. We were both mature, and made what we
though was a well reasoned decision after a two year relationship.
The part that didn't work (it didn't work for me, I don't think my ex
has had any problems or regrets about marrying in college) - was one of
my not accuratley percieving my ex's capabilities, lifestyle etc. While
in school he did very well, got excellent grades, seemed motivated and
capable and all those important things. What I found out though was
that he was excelling at living by the rules - inside a predetermined
structure of what was required. He still does this very well. What he
doesn't do well is LIVE. As it turns out he is not motivated, hates
risk of any kind, and other things along those lines. He was/is very
well suited to the academic life - but as it turned out - very unsuited
to "normal" (at least life similar to what I am used to) life and
socialization. Everything was fine as long as we stayed inside the
school environment (set things to do for good grades, classes that are
required, dorms and dorm rules -(including holding jobs etc) , but
things don't stay that way.
His success at the academic life masked some very real shortcomings in
his ability to deal with and live life. I am not mad at him and he is
not a bad person. Just was not the right combination for either of us.
Our divorce (13 years later) was amiable. I do regret the lack of
experience living a "real" adult life after graduating and before
marrying. I think I would have been able to make a better choice, and
saved much heartache. There is just SOOO Much personal growth and
change after graduation - I like to think if I had to do it over again,
I wouldn't marry until after at least 25!!
My .02
Shirley
*>HailStone<*
> So I think Charles is right - adjusting to marriage is stressful, but so is
> losing the flexibility of a college student's schedule and adjusting to the
> "real world."
My fiance's dad once accused us of not being in the "real world" - well
what is the real world? It certainly isn't getting paid over 10 pounds an
hour in a full time life time guaranteed job, with company car, company
computer, company mobile phone (and it certainly wasn't that at the time
he said this in the UK were I am) - the real world for many people was at
the time struggling with bills, stuggling to fund the MOT for the car,
not being able to afford luxeries - a bit like student life in the UK
(unless you want a loan to pay back) with the shrinking of grants and
raising of bills and food and were part time jobs are hard to get etc.
The economic climate is beginning to improve and so the definition of the
real world is beggining to change again.
You might find it fine to wait years after graduation to wait to get
married but my fiance and I have had intergrated lifes since we got
together - we shared our finances from our first date onwards (as I had
had a cheque bounce and couldn't afford to pay for all I needed
to)...we've been through far worse strains than me having to find a full
time job whilst he is still at university. So the hours will be slightly
different but he has to put in a lot mroe hours in his course than I do
as his is design based and in the Summer holidays we were working
different hours. We didn't have much time together especially as I was
tired from doing a packing job with vertially no breaks for 10 hours a
day but we got around that by being patient with each other.
Kellie Whitehurst Gaines
> > Here's one I haven't seen:
> >
> > Marriage is stressed by major life changes. Graduation is a life change.
> > Career changes, the arrival of children, and the children starting school are
> > others. All of these are statistically high-divorce periods.
>
> That's a bit OTT isn't it? All graduation means is you finally have to go
> off and find a job - big deal! Most students go through the experiences
> of this in their spare time or Summer holidays anyway.
If you've never worked for a living full-time, I think you'll find that
it's alot different than going to school (although that is stressful
too). When I first started working FT, I was exhausted. It taxes you
in a different way than school does (especially since that's something
you have been doing since you were a child).
In addition, many times a recent graduate cannot find a job that relates
to your degree, or you may find that while you enjoyed studying, say
economics, that you hate being an accountant or an analyst or an
economist. You never can tell until you are actually doing the job.
>
> Stress hits any time in life, and any time in a relationship. AS a
> student some of the biggest stress factors are is the house going to be
> broken into whilst I'm away over the holidays and exams and essay
> deadlines. Just because someone hasn't graduated doesn't mean they aren't
> already suffering stress - my fiance had 6 burgalries in 2 months in his
> 1st year - that put stress on our relationship but we got through it.
> Since we had milk poisoned by toerh students, the car vandilised by other
> students, the car stolen....one reason we would love for it to be
> possible to marry before graduating is so that we can find a house for
> just the two of us and not have to share with other students. We will be
> getting married in 98 though, just after I have graduated and a year
> before my fiance graduates. I doubt if that would put too much extra
> stress on us...compared to what we've already been through together.
Again, you are describing life stresses that can happen to anyone as
opposed to career stresses. Yes, anyone can have their milk poisoned by
someone else ( =:o) or be robbed - but certain things in life are
assigned as the highest stressors (marriage, divorce, new job, losing
old job, having children) and I think this is what she is talking about.
> >
> > Graduation, particularly undergraduate is probably the biggest life-change of
> > them all --
>
> I don't think so...bigger than leaving school? Bigger than finding out if
> you're actually going to university or not? Bigger than leaving home for
> the first time to go t university? Bigger than parents getting divorced?
> Bigger than having children?
She's saying it's a big life change that affects mostly only you (ie,
you have to move out, you have to find a job, you have to make the
adjustments).
> > In any case, if two people in any situation are planning to get married, and
> > their answer to "Where do you see yourselves in 5 years" is "I have no idea,
> > but we'll be married" I'd say they're in trouble.
>
> Why? SOme people would answer "I have no idea" without the married bit -
> isn't that a little bit less direction?
I think she's saying that if you aren't planning anything else but to be
married, that you are in trouble. Again, it's perfectly fine to say "I
don't know what I'll be doing after I graduate", especially when it only
affects you, and quite another to say "but I know that I'll be 22 and
I'll be married".
>> At that age, there's no need to rush into anything.
>
> ISn't there? Not even if you know what you want? I might "only be 20"
> but I'll be 22 when get married - my parents were married at 21 - I just
> think people assume that just because you're in your 20's you can't make
> your own decisions - well I've been making my own decisions since 15 on
> major life changing events.
> >
That's such a tired excuse - actually 2 tired excuses.
But I'll BE 21 when we marry...
(but you're not now - quite a lot of living and growing between 20 and
25)
But Mom & Dad were 18 when they married...
(Mom & Dad lived in different times, with different expectations;
besides you do really want to be exactly like your mom & Dad? =) )
kg
Jennifer Dockstader
*>HailStone<* wrote:
>
> My fiance's dad once accused us of not being in the "real world" - well
> what is the real world? It certainly isn't getting paid over 10 pounds an
> hour in a full time life time guaranteed job, with company car, company
> computer, company mobile phone (and it certainly wasn't that at the
I don't think anyone's trying to flame you, and you seem to be getting
defensive. I think what most people are trying to do is offer up their
experiences as "food for thought." The "real world" is obviously
different for different people in different situations. For my part, I
didn't think that life could be more stressful than when I was in grad
school, working four (yes, four) part-time jobs while going to class at
night full-time, writing (or trying to write) my master's thesis, deeply
in debt, and barely getting by. Yet *after* I got out of school in
August 1995, I found myself in a completely different situation --
despite having a master's degree in education, I was unable to find a
teaching job because I hadn't applied to the right places in the
spring. So I worked as a temp for $5-6 (if I was lucky) an hour, never
knew when or where I was going to work, never got a holiday, never got
to sleep in if I wanted to, had to get up early every morning and go to
a job I hated and be there for eight hours, had no benefits, and was
treated like dirt and/or a brainless bimbo. I was also applying for
ANYTHING I could get my hands on (usu. secretarial jobs), and I was
overqualified for everything and got rejection after rejection.
Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
This was all a huge adjustment for me -- the temp thing and the
rejections for jobs I didn't even really want really did a number on my
self-esteem (especially since I wasn't very good at not succeeding -- I
had done very well academically all my life); I resented the hell out of
my boyfriend for having an easier schedule and life than I did; and I
was feeling like it would never end. This lasted for four months.
Fortunately, I did get a real job, and I lucked out and got a better job
than I ever expected. And I also learned that I had to deal with my own
issues with the difference in Dave's and my lifestyles (and the change
in my own lifestyle -- I loved being a student and keeping that kind of
schedule. 9-5 is still not for me, and I've been doing it for over a
year now). Anyway, this transition period incurred a LOT of stress both
for me, and on our relationship -- and it wasn't a one-shot deal -- it
lasted and accumulated for four months, with no end in sight (at the
time). We're now starting to face it with Dave -- he graduates in
August and is currently looking for a job. Despite the fact that his
chances are pretty good, and that he's an excellent candidate, the few
rejections he's gotten so far are beginning to bother him. I'm doing my
best to be as supportive of him as he was of me, but this is something
that I really can't do much about, regardless of how much I love him/he
loves me.
Again, I don't think that anyone is trying to dictate anyone's life
around here. IMHO, the sharing of experiences helps everyone to see
what is or could be out there, from another perspective. Try to take
the advice as just that, advice -- not instructions -- and glean what
you can from that.
Jennifer (and Dave)
5/24/97
Todd A Carter
In article <32F73A...@ix.netcom.com>,
Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
>graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
>every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
>lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
>life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
What are you, INSANE? :-) I happen to be one of those grad students in
science (human genetics), and I've been living on peanuts ever since I got
my undergrad degree 5 1/2 years ago. I don't TA anything (we have no
undergrads at this campus), and they don't allow us to take outside jobs.
We're expected to work much more than forty hours a week, and although we
get a stipend, its not much.
I could be making four times as much, if I didn't want to get my PhD. And
if I'd be happy with having a career ceiling. Sigh. A good part of my
not getting engaged until recently was my feelings of being unable to
contribute "my share" financially. There's a light at the end of the
tunnel, now, and hopefully within the year after we marry (6/97!) I'll at
least be in a post-doc situation with a bit more money.
Ack. The concept of being a science grad student because of the easy
money.... Where can I find this university? :-).
--Todd Carter
P.S. Yeah, the hours are flexible. But everyone I know who gets up at
noon, also works until midnight or so.
Jennifer Dockstader
Todd A Carter wrote:
>
> In article <32F73A...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
> >graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
> >every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
> >lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
> >life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
>
> What are you, INSANE? :-) I happen to be one of those grad students in
> science (human genetics), and I've been living on peanuts ever since I got
> my undergrad degree 5 1/2 years ago.
> P.S. Yeah, the hours are flexible. But everyone I know who gets up at
> noon, also works until midnight or so.
Sorry -- I should clarify. A) I'd love to have that type of schedule
-- I'm a night person by nature, and somehow I haven't gotten the hang
of getting up at 6:30 = going to bed at 10:30, and I'm chronically
sleep-deprived. And B) I'd want to be a *theoretical physics* grad
student -- supposedly they're working 20-40 hours a week, but a lot of
that is "thinking time" (or at least it seems like it to me! :) ) And,
they get paid -- which is more than I can say for being in education
(see my $30,000 student loan debt!).
Fortunately, Dave doesn't have a problem with not contributing "his
share" financially -- he's been enjoying the fact that I'm gainfully
employed as much (if not more) than I am. Thank god I knew he loved me
when we were poor and I was struggling, otherwise I might suspect a
gold-digger... ;)
Tongue firmly in cheek for all of this post!!
Jennifer (and Dave, who's the "house-wife" for now)
5/24/97
Mary Jane N. Shroyer
On 4 Feb 1997, Todd A Carter wrote:
> In article <32F73A...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
> >graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
> >every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
> >lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
> >life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
>
> Ack. The concept of being a science grad student because of the easy
> money.... Where can I find this university? :-).
No kidding, sign me up!
> P.S. Yeah, the hours are flexible. But everyone I know who gets up at
> noon, also works until midnight or so.
Midnight?! If I'm lucky Mark (physics grad) takes a break at midnight to
check in with me. When he's teaching he doesn't make it to bed before
2AM. During the first two years it was not uncommon for him to stagger
home *after* the sunrise. He's lucky I don't have a suspicious nature &
a jealous streak!
Between teaching, grading, research, classes, journal clubs and meetings,
I figure we were pulling 80 hour "work" weeks our first two years (I'm a
science grad student too). I thank God those years bore no resemblance to
the "real world"! ;) I feel sorry for couples where only one person is in
grad school because I don't see how the other can possibly understand the
time involved. Not to mention the constant sleep deprivation...it's
probably a lot like being a new parent only a thesis has a gestation
period of 4-6 years ;).
And BTW, Jennifer, the last theoretical physicist PhD to graduate I know
found himself checking groceries with a stay-at-home wife and three kids
to support after graduation. He had *lots* of "thinking time"! Ouch!
MJ (who prays for that wave of retiring scientists they keep predicting to
hit in about 2 years!)
******************************************************************************
Mary Jane N. Shroyer "If we have no peace, it is because we have
nat...@ucs.orst.edu forgotten that we belong to each other."
www.orst.edu/~natherm/ --Mother Teresa
Kelly Hartline
Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
> graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
> every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
> lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
> life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
AAIIIEEE!! Where would this be?? Joe's Bar 'n Grill 'n Grad School?!
Was he running *special* packages across the border for his advisor
to supplement his stipend?! :)
<Disclaimer: This is not in any way meant as a flame...just
bewildered amusement :) >
Yow! While there is certainly a fair amount of flexibility in the
specific "hours" which you work in grad school, the work still needs
to be done....if you don't get the data, you don't graduate! This
generally works out to about 60 hours per week or so (at least in
the Neuroscience program). The pay for this is around $1000/month,
in general (although at Emory, we get around $1250/month, which is
a little above national average, I believe). Plus, you have to sign
away the right to have an outside job in order to receive the stipend.
I didn't think this would actually be enforced, but I recently had to
quit a $25/hr. part-time job....which was really bad timing with the
wedding coming up :(.
Kelly & Bret 7/19/97
kathryn e epstein
Nancy Andersen (ande...@ABN.unt.edu) wrote:
: Hi -
: I have to agree with Charles. Working in your first full-time, salaried job
: after graduation means a big adjustment in your lifestyle.
Hm, I just made that adjustment in May and got engaged to someone who
hasn't yet in October. He'll get his B.A. in May 97 and marry me in 8/97
and go to grad school in 9/97. So the full-time salaried job won't be
coming for him for a long time (he wants to be an academic so in some of
the senses I snipped from the previous post he'll never make that
transition). My experience if becoming full-time (and I didn't even have a
job except in the summers in college) doesn't make me think I'd better
wait to get engaged to my fiance. I wonder more what major life changes
such as having kids will do to our relationship, but I'm pretty confident
about it all...
Kate
Kelly Hartline
Kelly Hartline <kha...@emory.edu> wrote:
>
> This
> generally works out to about 60 hours per week or so (at least in
> the Neuroscience program).
Quick addendum: This 60 hours is really just the time spent in the
lab and in classes and in seminars. It doesn't even count time spent
reading journal articles, planning talks/lectures, writing papers, or
making posters for meetings. (However, at least those things, I can
do while still spending quality bonding time with my kitties!)
Once again, I realize that a *lot* of other jobs have these kinds of
hours involved, as well....I just hope they're better paid :)
Kelly (& her incredibly understanding fiance Bret
& her two incredibly understanding kitties, Josie and Alex)
kathryn e epstein
Mary Jane N. Shroyer (nat...@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:
: Between teaching, grading, research, classes, journal clubs and meetings,
: I figure we were pulling 80 hour "work" weeks our first two years (I'm a
: science grad student too). I thank God those years bore no resemblance to
: the "real world"! ;) I feel sorry for couples where only one person is in
: grad school because I don't see how the other can possibly understand the
: time involved. Not to mention the constant sleep deprivation...it's
: probably a lot like being a new parent only a thesis has a gestation
: period of 4-6 years ;).
I will soon be 1/2 of one of these one-grad student couples (the
non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly defensive
flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my husband-to-be will
have for me. Frankly, this has already been a hot issue for us. I was
wondering if people who have this kind of a problem have dealt with it.
Thanks.
Kate
Suzanne Glass
In article <5d7ne5$ohl$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>,
ta...@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (Todd A Carter) wrote:
> In article <32F73A...@ix.netcom.com>,
> Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
> >graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
> >every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
> >lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
> >life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
>
> What are you, INSANE? :-) I happen to be one of those grad students in
> science (human genetics), and I've been living on peanuts ever since I got
> my undergrad degree 5 1/2 years ago. I don't TA anything (we have no
> undergrads at this campus), and they don't allow us to take outside jobs.
> We're expected to work much more than forty hours a week, and although we
> get a stipend, its not much.
>
I have to agree with Todd. I was a Chemistry grad student for 5 years and
while we were nearly the highest paid TA's on campus it was barely enough
for getting by. I'd spend 15-20 hours a week teaching and another 40-60 a
week working in the lab. It ended up being close to minimum wage
altogether. I know of several TA's in other disciplines who were paid a
lot less if anything at all. Then when it's all said and done, the job
market isn't that great. Granted, I opted for a master's instead of the
PhD. I'm glad I did that because we went where my husband got a job and I
would have no chance of getting a job here at all with the higher degree.
It's hard enough as it is....and I'm still looking.
Suzanne, who has had enough of the graduate school experience and knows it
isn't all that it's cracked up to be. However, if I hadn't gone I
wouldn't have met my husband.
--
Suzanne Glass
Santa Fe, NM
gl...@rt66.com
http://www.21webdesign.com/glass/
Lisa Graf
kathryn e epstein (kate...@umich.edu) wrote:
> I will soon be 1/2 of one of these one-grad student couples (the
> non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly
> defensive flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my
> husband-to-be will have for me. Frankly, this has already been a >hot issue for us. I was wondering if people who have this kind of a >problem have dealt with it.
sacrificed a lot because of it (he and I live together). I'm in my
second year of a PhD program, so I've still got another three years or
so to go. On top of this, the town my university is in is out in the
country and has a high unemployment rate--it's taken him a while to
find a job he likes. I was seriously considering leaving the program
because I felt so awful for him when he didn't have a job. However, I
recently decided to stick it out because I know that I'll never return
to complete my education if I leave now. Time is often an issue, but
I try to do as much work as possible at home, on our computer, and I
try to devote blocks of time to him during the week. I also work like
crazy when he's at work so that I can try to be home when he gets home
(usually doesn't work, but I do get home a few hours earlier than I
would have otherwise). I can understand your concern about time spent
together, but it's not always going to be like this--in a few years,
you'll both have a much more normal life/relationship.
I know this deviates from the original thread, but in answer to the
question of waiting until graduation, I think I've addressed that to
some extent--I personally think it's a good idea to start a marriage
with enough time to devote to each other. (That's why I'm getting
married during the summer, when I'll *hopefully* have a lot more
time!)
Lisa
Carrie Leonard
In article <5d8an7$8...@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
kathryn e epstein <kate...@umich.edu> wrote:
>Mary Jane N. Shroyer (nat...@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:
>
>: Between teaching, grading, research, classes, journal clubs and meetings,
>: I figure we were pulling 80 hour "work" weeks our first two years (I'm a
>: science grad student too). I thank God those years bore no resemblance to
>: the "real world"! ;) I feel sorry for couples where only one person is in
>: grad school because I don't see how the other can possibly understand the
>: time involved.
>
>non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly defensive
>flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my husband-to-be will
>have for me. Frankly, this has already been a hot issue for us. I was
>wondering if people who have this kind of a problem have dealt with it.
I guess as teh grad-student half of a couple, I'll tackle your question. An
important thing to remember is that he isn't spending time away from you
because he'd rather be somewhere else, it's just that his time is taken and
there's not much he can do about it.
What Dave and I have done is try to treat my grad school like a job. I really
try to get the majority of my work done during the week (but those are VERY
long days) so that my weekends are free when he is. I still usually end up
working 4 hours or so on Saturdays, but that's really nothing in the whole
scheme of things.
Good luck!
Carrie
---
car...@kestrel.umd.edu Sometime's paranoia's just having all
Maryland Sea Grant the facts. --William S. Burroughs
University of Maryland (So I've been watching too much X-Files!!!)
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~carrie/welcome.html
Jordana Caroli Tonn
>In article <5d7ne5$ohl$1...@apakabar.cc.columbia.edu>,
>ta...@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu (Todd A Carter) wrote:
>> In article <32F73A...@ix.netcom.com>,
>> Jennifer Dockstader <jenn...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
>> >graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
>> >every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
>> >lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
>> >life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
>>
>> What are you, INSANE? :-) I happen to be one of those grad students in
>> science (human genetics), and I've been living on peanuts ever since I got
>> my undergrad degree 5 1/2 years ago. I don't TA anything (we have no
>> undergrads at this campus), and they don't allow us to take outside jobs.
>> We're expected to work much more than forty hours a week, and although we
>> get a stipend, its not much.
Not to try to make this a pity party, because I know science grad students
work hard and don't get paid much, but then there are those of us in other
fields. I'm crazy enough to be getting a graduate degree in the
humanities (German literature, if you were curious) and we get paid a lot
less than even the science people.
However, I have a very hard time believing that any grad student would be
making more than a normal person. My brother is making more money waiting
tables than most grad students I know...in science or otherwise.
Jordana Tonn
jor...@udel.edu
http://copland.udel.edu/~jordana
Audrey Jill Ettinger
I definitely want to know where this guy went to grad school!! It's hard
to see my grad student life as glamorous and laid-back. Flexible? Well,
as my advisor says "We're very flexible. YOu can work any 16 hours a day
you choose." And he's barely kidding.
Anyone else think that a 60+ hour a week job for someone with a college
degree (and after 2 years, the equivalent of a Masters Degree, etc) that
pays $14,000 with no overtime and no permission to get another job is
worth coming back to live over again??
Don't mean to be nasty, just amused at the "glamorization" of grad student
life.
At least we don't have to wear nice clothes to work.
Audrey (and Michael, another one of those glamorous science grad
students!)
Tina Habash
On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Jennifer Dockstader wrote:
> Meanwhile, my now-fiance, then-boyfriend (we lived together) was a
> graduate student, which in his case meant he could sleep until noon
> every day, TA classes at night, and have a much more laid-back
> lifestyle, all while making more money than I was (if I ever live my
> life over again, I'm coming back as a grad student in science!).
>
Normally, I don't like responding to the non-wedding related issues in the
newgroup. But it being 1:00 in the morning and foreseeing spending another
3-4 hours in the lab before I start my new day, I can't help but be a
little miffed at this response. I'm sure you're under a lot of pressure
with planning the wedding. I know I am. But for the record, being a grad
student in a science is not a breeze and I have never slept in until noon.
Tina
Sara M.
kate...@umich.edu (kathryn e epstein) wrote:
>Mary Jane N. Shroyer (nat...@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:
>: Between teaching, grading, research, classes, journal clubs and meetings,
>: I figure we were pulling 80 hour "work" weeks our first two years (I'm a
>: science grad student too). I thank God those years bore no resemblance to
>: the "real world"! ;) I feel sorry for couples where only one person is in
>: grad school because I don't see how the other can possibly understand the
>: time involved. Not to mention the constant sleep deprivation...it's
>: probably a lot like being a new parent only a thesis has a gestation
>: period of 4-6 years ;).
>I will soon be 1/2 of one of these one-grad student couples (the
>non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly defensive
>flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my husband-to-be will
>have for me. Frankly, this has already been a hot issue for us. I was
>wondering if people who have this kind of a problem have dealt with it.
OK, here's yet another take on all of this :)
I'm the non-grad half of such a couple, but I was until recently in the
same program as my fiance. (I've been 8-to-5 for about 1.5 years now,
and an *just* getting used to getting up at 6:30!) So, I've been in both
the academic situation he's in and the work-week situation -- this
is very helpful when you're trying to cope with the different work cycles.
(Both fiance and I were in a physical sciences program, so I'm speaking
from that perspective.)
The amount of time that our fiance will have to spend with you will
depend a *LOT* on his subject, his individual department, and how
far along he is in his program. Some subjects demand more or less
"at the office" time than others, and individual departments can
vary widely in how much they demand of their students. Also,
often the first years of graduate school are the most demanding
time-wise; students are completing their required classes, which
ties them to both a predetermined daily schedule and a *lot* of
homework for these classes, in addition to any TA or RA duties.
Speaking for my fiance and myself -- I know (from having done
it myself) that the first two years were by *far* the most stressful
and time-intensive. I was taking a lot of classes from professors
who believed that they should give us a lot of work so that
we would know what it was like to be a hard-working faculty
member, *not* so that we could learn the subject (and, yes, one
actually told me this to my face) . TA duties weren't so bad
(two night labs and a 3-credit intro course were standard), but
the classwork consumed most waking hours, and many of us
didn't get a lot of sleep. Plus, the stress of both candidacy and
comprehensive exams was an occasional threat :). Free time
was limited to doing laundry, eating fast food and collapsing
in exhaustion :).
When my fiance hit the ABD (all-but-dissertation; basically
post-comps) stage, things eased up for him in a big way. He still
works hard, but on his *OWN* schedule, and he only has to please
his thesis committee, not a slew of professors and their whims.
Consequently, he gets more quality sleep (he's a night person
and doesn't work well on a standard day schedule), chooses
his work hours, and gets more done, therefore having a little
more free time; the free time he has is better as he's better
rested and less constantly-stressed.
Situations vary. Some departments understand that their
students actually might want to have a life outside of their
daily academic grind (a friend of mine who transferred to
another department tells me that people there look at you
strangely if you do more than 9-5 there every day!), and some
believe that if you look like you actually bother to wear clean
clothes every day, then you're not working hard enough
(hmmm...which department would *that* be? :) ). Once
your fiance has been in his program for a semester or so and
seen what he's expected to do and what other people's
situations are like, then you'll have a better idea of how
much time he will have for you. It likely won't be much, in
which case you'll have to be understanding and patient,
and keep in mind that this won't last for more than a few
years!
-- Sara (and Jason, due to defend in May -- gulp!)
anon...@guesswho.com
I really didn't mean to start all of this, and now I'm feeling
incredibly guilty because somehow it looks like a) I don't respect what
my fiance is doing (earning his Ph.D. in theoretical physics) and b) he
is a lazy bum who can't possibly be going to any college other than the
If You're Breathing We'll Let You In University. I assure you that
neither is the case.
In my original post, I was trying to be wry. I was trying to
communicate that at the time I was describing I was out of school and
working temp/part-time jobs, struggling to make ends meet, struggling to
find a long-term job (anything with any type of stability) so that I
would have some hope of paying off $30,000+ in student loans (which I
incurred during my 2-1/2 years of graduate school, despite the fact that
I worked a minimum of 30 hours a week in four part-time jobs at the same
time -- my department (education) had VERY few TAships, and they paid
much less than my fiance's does, and I didn't get one). And yes, I
resented that I had to get up at 6:30 to go to temp jobs and get paid
$5/hr (if that) and very little respect while Dave was able to set his
own hours. But I worked that out with him -- and it took quite a bit of
effort. I'll spare you the details, but eventually we came to a
position of mutual understanding and respect. Now I know that this is
not the case with every science grad student, but even Dave will admit
that he does not put in 40 hours every week -- he is ABD now. That is
not to say that he did not work his butt off when he first started --
it's just that I didn't know him then. So I had to realize that he had
earned his right to be a student, and he had to realize that a lot of my
resentment came from my disappointment in my life situation in general.
Again, I was NOT AT ALL trying to disrespect science grad students, or
to put down my fiance. In a tongue-in-cheek way, I was merely saying
that I would rather be a student working at something I liked on my own
schedule than an underemployed temp worker making very little money --
THAT'S ALL! And I would venture to say that many would agree with me.
Sara, you made some very good points about the different requirements
depending on advisers, department, field, and timeframe -- you seem to
be in a very similar situation. Thanks for your input
Jennifer Dockstader
Erk! If you couldn't tell by the wordy writing style, that was me,
Jennifer, the original poster. Apologies all around. (And in case you
think I was up to something nefarious, I was fooling around with the
settings yesterday to see if I could send Dave romantic anonymous e-mail
and forgot to change them.) Plus, I'd swear I actually signed this...
Jennifer (and Dave)
5/24/97
Carrie Leonard
In article <32F886...@guesswho.com>, <anon...@guesswho.com> wrote:
>
>Again, I was NOT AT ALL trying to disrespect science grad students, or
>to put down my fiance. In a tongue-in-cheek way, I was merely saying
>that I would rather be a student working at something I liked on my own
>schedule than an underemployed temp worker making very little money --
>THAT'S ALL! And I would venture to say that many would agree with me.
I understand completely (I am one of the aforementioned science grad
students). What I love about science in general is the ability to set
your own hours. I am a morning person, and I love to get in here early
and get lots done and then take a break in the afternoon -- my MAJOR
downtime. so I understand your jealously...
kathryn e epstein
Hey all, thanks for your responses so far. I know it's going to be mostly
a wait and work it out months from now kind of a thing. ("We'll work it
out," croaks my stressed-out, sore-throat honey, when I mentions this
issue. We've got a date to talk about this stuff after he turns in his
undergrad thesis....) But I appreciate your thoughts. It makes the
problem seem less absorbing, encompassing, and all that.
Kate
andrea l gadberry
How fabulous for you, Shawna! Congratulations!
Andrea (who, at 5'9", doesn't need a hem, and is thrilled that, for the
first time in her life, she's the *perfect* height!)
Shawna Cooper (csh...@okstate.edu) wrote:
: I have an AWESOME story about my dress, that deals with this!!
: When we went shopping for my dress, I KNEW the one I wanted. I had
: seen it, tried to slip it on, but being almost 6 foot, and not exactly
: as size 6, it wasn't even close. So, I went into the store where I
: bought my dress, and asked the lady if they carried that dress. Well,
: there was this lady standing in front of the counter, and she turned
: around to me (she didn't work there). She asked me how tall I was and
: what size I was.
: It turns out that she had bought the dress, for almost $2000, and had
: yet to pay for the alterations. We are the same height, and same size.
: Well, her now-husband is in the service, and was forced to leave for
: overseas, and so they eloped, with their families blessings. Well, she
: didn't wear the dress because it was at the seemstress for alterations,
: and only had like a week to reorganize everything. So, she told me if I
: would pay the rest of the alterations, and send her a pic of me in it,
: then I could have it!!!!!
: YIPPEE!!! So, I have the dress of my dreams, altered to be for a 6
: foot tall person!! :) Just had to share!! Good luck to all you TALL
: brides!!
:
: Shawna
: --
: \|/
: [o o]
: *********************************oooO(_)Oooo*****
: * Shawna Kathleen Cooper *
: * csh...@simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
: * http://simpsog.reslife.okstate.edu *
: * *
: *-"No, Robert's delicious, but I like computer *
: * nerds these days." - Tori Amos *
: *************************************************
--
---
Andrea L. Gadberry Aspiring Librarian
agad...@students.uiuc.edu University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Randie Schillinger
On 4 Feb 1997, kathryn e epstein wrote:
> I will soon be 1/2 of one of these one-grad student couples (the
> non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly defensive
> flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my husband-to-be will
> have for me. Frankly, this has already been a hot issue for us. I was
> wondering if people who have this kind of a problem have dealt with it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Kate
>
>
I'm the "non-student" half of a one grad student couple. It's not nearly
as bad as I thought it would be. I think that every situation is
different. Most of the posts I've seen have come from people studying or
"dealing" with people studying science. I'm sure that means A LOT of
required lab time. My better half is studying Forest Economics--the
majority of his time is spent modeling problems and programming
solutions, both of which he can easily do on our computer at home. In
addition, he is an RA rather than a TA, which is less demanding, doesn't
require office hours, and again, is work that can be done on the computer
at home. For me, it has just been a matter of adjusting what I consider
"time together" with him. Now, rather than an evening spent together, it
may be a couple of coffee breaks he takes to avoid going blind staring at
equations.
HTH
Rebecca
Karen L Greenberg
Mary Jane N. Shroyer (nat...@ucs.orst.edu) wrote:
: Between teaching, grading, research, classes, journal clubs and meetings,
: I figure we were pulling 80 hour "work" weeks our first two years (I'm a
: science grad student too). I thank God those years bore no resemblance to
: the "real world"! ;) I feel sorry for couples where only one person is in
: grad school because I don't see how the other can possibly understand the
: time involved.
Careful--do you mean this to sound condescending? A person has to be
dense not to be able to understand "I need to put in an average of 80
hours a week" or "I had to stay up all night working on this." These
things happen in "real world" jobs as well as in grad school. They'll
cause problems, regardless of student status, for spouses who are
jealous/suspicious (as you mentioned in text I cut), overly dependent
("But you HAVE to come home -- I need to go to the grocery store and I
CAN'T drive the car by myself!") or uncommunicative ("Oh, I forgot to tell
you, I was under pressure to finish this up by Friday.").
I'll grant that a lot of people do have trouble understanding time
commitments in a student setting. "Oh, you only have 10 hours of class
every week -- all you have to do is think -- teaching isn't hard -- you're
not that busy!" Take my relatives, please! ;-) (I have some stories that
would be laughable if they didn't make me angry for Kevin's sake!)
I suppose there are couples who have this problem, but I feel like they'd
be very unlikely to emerge from grad school with a strong relationship and
a top-notch record of academic achievement. IOW, either they'll get
*really* sick of fighting over how much time grad school takes, or the
student will give up and stop working as many hours as he or she "should",
or both.
Are these the people you were talking about in the first place? If so, I
feel sorry for them, too. It's too bad if grad school feels like an
imposition or a compromise when it can (should) be exciting and rewarding.
Karen
--
Karen L. Greenberg
k...@sas.upenn.edu
andrea l gadberry
I'm the grad student half of one of these couples, also. My situation is
slightly different than most, however. I'm in library science, with an
assistantship at the library, so most of my working hours are scheduled
ones (i.e., I work 15 hours a week at the reference desk). The problem
for us has been that the library is open until midnight 6 days a week,
and opens at 8am 6 days a week. That means my working hours are all over
the map.
Solutions: I have registered my preference with the schedule-makers for
daytime hours. As a result, well, I still get some evening hours, but
they give me daytime shifts whenever possible.
Also, at the suggestion of a friend in a similar situation, we have set
up one weeknight as "our night." I don't work that night, and neither
does Nathan (he has a flextime setup at work, so he often does some work
in the evenings), and we don't set up other activities that night either
(getting the oil changed, going to the doctor, whatever). This ensures
that we always spend some time together every week (and we usually spend
time together other evenings, too, but this way our night is protected
even in the busiest of weeks), and that I don't feel too guilty never
having time for him, and that he doesn't feel he has to drop everything
if I happen to have another night off (in other words, if I happen to
have Monday night off, he doesn't have to feel guilty if he spends part
of the time with a friend or something).
It's not the perfect solution, but it is much better than nothing (we
didn't do this last semester, and so far this semester, it's working out
well).
Andrea (& Nathan, 13 September 1997)
Lisa Graf (lg25...@oak.cats.ohiou.edu) wrote:
: kathryn e epstein (kate...@umich.edu) wrote:
: > I will soon be 1/2 of one of these one-grad student couples (the
: > non-student half)--no, this isn't the beginning of an incredibly
: > defensive flame--and I'm concerned about the amount of time my
: > husband-to-be will have for me. Frankly, this has already been a >hot issue for us. I was wondering if people who have this kind of a >problem have dealt with it.
:
: Kathryn, I'm the graduate student half of a couple, and my fiance has
: sacrificed a lot because of it (he and I live together). I'm in my
: second year of a PhD program, so I've still got another three years or
: so to go. On top of this, the town my university is in is out in the
: country and has a high unemployment rate--it's taken him a while to
: find a job he likes. I was seriously considering leaving the program
: because I felt so awful for him when he didn't have a job. However, I
: recently decided to stick it out because I know that I'll never return
: to complete my education if I leave now. Time is often an issue, but
: I try to do as much work as possible at home, on our computer, and I
: try to devote blocks of time to him during the week. I also work like
: crazy when he's at work so that I can try to be home when he gets home
: (usually doesn't work, but I do get home a few hours earlier than I
: would have otherwise). I can understand your concern about time spent
: together, but it's not always going to be like this--in a few years,
: you'll both have a much more normal life/relationship.
: I know this deviates from the original thread, but in answer to the
: question of waiting until graduation, I think I've addressed that to
: some extent--I personally think it's a good idea to start a marriage
: with enough time to devote to each other. (That's why I'm getting
: married during the summer, when I'll *hopefully* have a lot more
: time!)
:
: Lisa
--
Sandy Beeser
In article <5dl3hc$q...@netnews.upenn.edu>, k...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu (Karen
L Greenberg) wrote:
> Careful--do you mean this to sound condescending? A person has to be
> dense not to be able to understand "I need to put in an average of 80
> hours a week" or "I had to stay up all night working on this." These
> things happen in "real world" jobs as well as in grad school.
Being a science PhD student, I once had to do time course experiments
every 6 hours for 6 days, and the assay itself takes 4 hours to do. You
do the math.
My fiancee still cringes every time I tell her I have time course
experiments to do, although they aren't necessarily the same duration. It
took a while but
I am now sure that my fiancee is aware that sometimes I have to spend what
would seem to be inordinate amounts of time in the lab, and she accepts it
knowing full well that I am in late nights because I want to graduate, not
for any other reason. My fiancee is neither jealous/overly suspicious or
dependant on me, but would like to see my face for more than a couple of
minutes in a week as I come home to get something to eat in a sleep
deprived really foul mood. Is this unreasonable ? I don't think so, and
although I am sure that there are some really demanding jobs in the real
world, I suspect that if they approach the level of grad student, they do
so with far more monetary compensation.
I remember seeing an episode of cops where they pulled over this guy
because they though he was drunk because his car was swerving all over the
road. The cops talked to him found out he was a contractor who worked on
site for three days straight to meet a deadline, and hadn't had a drop he
was just that tired.
The scary thing is that I could truley sympathise with this guy.
Getting married while one person is in grad school is difficult only if
the level of your devotion to your work comes as a surprise to your
fiancee. Fortunately for me, it no longer does and we've been planing out
may weding for a while so it is definately do-able, and I don't think my
work has suffered a bit, an opinion I beleive is shared by my boss.
Sandy
Sheila Craig
My best friend & her husband moved in together while they were in
University. They were married 2 years after they graduated and have been
happily wed for 6 years. The most difficult period of their relationship
was definitely the year after graduation.
Their interests, goals and abilities suddenly diverged from the closeness
and sameness of university life. She got into her chosen profession right
away (as a teacher), but it took him over a year of flip-flopping between
dead-end jobs before he settled into a career. During this year, he was
depressed and unmotivated. She was stressed finding her feet in her new
job, receiving no support from him, and she was very worried about his and
their future. Fortunately, he DID finally sort himself out, and they DID
find the critical things on which to "centre" their marriage.
Everyone, of course, must make their own decisions, but they should not be
made lightly. I can't think of a more stressful event than leaving the
"safe haven" of university with its known problems, worries, interests and
escapes, to head out into the working world for an entirely new
experience, finally free to find out who you really are. I remember
feeling like I was falling into space when I graduated. But, boy did I
ever spread my wings in the years that followed! Adding a new, permanent
relationship to that wide open adventure is definitely going to make it
all more challenging.
I didn't live through this myself, although I felt alot of pain at the
difficulties my friends were going through. They survived it and have a
very happy marriage,thankfully, but I believe that first year after
graduation nearly broke them apart. Perhaps others that have lived
through a similar crisis can comment.
-Sheila
(Glad to have found my soul mate 8 years after graduating)
kathryn e epstein
Sheila Craig (Sheila...@Newbridge.com) wrote:
: made lightly. I can't think of a more stressful event than leaving the
: "safe haven" of university with its known problems, worries, interests and
: escapes, to head out into the working world for an entirely new
: experience, finally free to find out who you really are. I remember
: feeling like I was falling into space when I graduated. But, boy did I
: ever spread my wings in the years that followed! Adding a new, permanent
: relationship to that wide open adventure is definitely going to make it
: all more challenging.
_This_ part doesn't worry me much, because graduation (last May) really
wasn't this kind of stress for me--this post got me curious as to why, but
I don't think I can figure it out without knowing why it was such a big
event for you.
Something that is stressing me out is that I've grown to hate my job, and
the reasons I hate it are very tied to the fact that it's entry-level, but
Ethan's support is the biggest reason I can bear it, next to the fact that
I know I'm leaving it at least a week before our wedding.
Kate
Figaro
On Sat, 01 Feb 1997 16:18:09 -0600, Shawna Cooper
<csh...@okstate.edu> wrote:
Tony and I just went thorugh this whole thing about waiting vs. not
waiting. We've decided not to wait until he finishes school, although
we will have to sacrifice a lot because of our descion. I've saved a
lot of money thorugh the years which has made it possible for us to
get married earlier. Also, we will be living with my sister and her
husband, so there will be little expense for rent. I know that it
will be a bit more stressful because Tony will have to come home and
write papers and do homework, but we think it is worth it. Just my
quick $0.02 since it's time to go to lunch! Figaro (and Tony)
8/23/97
Miche
In article <ef19af1b...@news.onramp.net>
gs0...@panther.gsu.edu (Figaro) writes:
I'm getting married in 3 weeks, which is 2 months before my official
graduation. In New Zealand, final exam results come out in December,
but the first graduation ceremony (there are several) isn't until the
following May. (This dates back to the old days when exam scripts were
sent to Britain to be marked.)
I've been working in the meantime (including all last year, as well as
studying full-time) so we're financially fairly secure. David is going
back to school to do his doctorate, and will be working as well.
I realise we probably count as an unusual case, but I'd just like to
offer us as an example of a couple who don't *need* to wait until after
graduation to marry.
Miche
------------
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What I post is my opinion only. <*>
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*>HailStone<*
> I'm getting married in 3 weeks, which is 2 months before my official
> graduation. In New Zealand, final exam results come out in December,
> but the first graduation ceremony (there are several) isn't until the
> following May. (This dates back to the old days when exam scripts were
> sent to Britain to be marked.)
At the university I go to I'lll take my last exam come time in June 98
and then I won't graduate until towards the end of October 98 - I think
waiting these 4 months until graduating to get married would be
ridiculous. Also, because my dad is a football (soccer to those in the
US) fan and supports his local team I wouldn't be able to plan the
wedding in advance if I was to have it in seasson (between the end of
August and beginning of June) meaning I'd have to wait a year after what
were planning on getting married (July 98)....I know we could still book
it for the in season times but my dad posponed his own wedding because
his favourate team were playing.
>
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