University of Pennsylvania M&T Program
Sunjay Mishra
Program at UPENN. I have a couple of questions about this program...
First are there any other similar programs to this? (Computer Science and
Business combination)
Secondly, what are the requirements for admission? Here are my specs
1500 SAT I
800 MATH IIC, 800 Chem, 770 Writing
rank - 6/180
I have done two research projects, 1 for NASA and one individually.
Could someone help me out? I would really like to attend this program..
cindy wan
just all depends on how good is it. if you want to emphasize on business
than engineering, then M&T is just the right program for you. well, you
have to see what kind of engineering you want to do as well. just want to
tell you no matter what kind of engineering you choose to do, the M&T
program is be far one of the toughiest programs in Penn.
you can just get the application for Penn, and they have all the
requirements you need to get into the program. or get on www.upenn.edu.
you can find all the info you need.
Sunjay Mishra <sun...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7qbkgb$d...@dfw-ixnews17.ix.netcom.com...
Allan C Lai
There is no such fixed combination of business and engineering at mit,
but a lot of people here double major in management and one of the
engineering courses. mit does not require a separate application.
AsiaSunset
averages do exist for each incoming freshmen group enrolled in the program (I
think average SATs were in the 1480's last year), they do a lot of balancing,
similar to the balancing done for the entire freshman class, to assure that the
program has a good mix of kids. It's a small group (40ish). They become very
close and there is a lot of team oriented work in Wharton. They don't simply
admit the 40 smartest kids.
Terence Chang
M&T's perhaps the hardest program at Penn... it's not only hard to get
in, it's even worse to get out. They command the biggest salaries and
choices of jobs when they get out among the undergrads (see
www.upenn.edu/careerservices), but they pay for it in the face of taking
hard classes and crazy loads of classes each semester. It's not unusual
to graduate in 5 years or take summer school, assuming that you don't
have a bumpy road along the way. It's actually more sane to do it in 5
years.
A good thing about the program is that some required business courses are
cut out (basically bullshit requirements). Depending on your POV, you
have a senior project to do in the Engineering school. The downside is
that you have virtually no opportunity to take humanities/social science
classes if that's your thing. But one way to get around it is to do a
BAS/BS rather than a BSE/BS (BS is the Wharton degree... not a BBA...
it's semantic). Though M&T do look for a good mix of people, they all
share commonalities in strong academics in math and science. Most M&T
tend to be Finance. But then again, shit, who isn't Finance? Basically
they're all the same... math science people. Some of them are really
cool and really smart... the other ones are thrombos waiting to go postal.
There are other programs like it, one I know of is at UT-Austin called
ERB... Engineering on Route to Business, which to me is a pretty stupid
name to call it, but UT engineering is by far better than Penn's although
their b-school doesn't stack as high.
M&T come up with weird combination of stuff. Some insane people do
ChemE/Fin, while others do related stuff like Systems/MIS. I knew
someone who di Bioengineer/Health care Management... but then again I
also knew someone down the hall that did BE/Fin and BE masters all in 4
years. He works for Saloman Smith Barney right now. Hard core, if you
ask me.
It's a pretty impressive program if you can pull it off. Most people who
are Fin/engineer types end up in I-banking anyways but for Tech sectors.
Basically that whole schpeal about having technical skills and business
know-how is pretty true. The bad thing is that it is VERY rare to find a
job right out of college that will even be close to the experience that
M&T kids have in college. My point here is that after college, you'll
tend to lose step in one or the other field. But I guess after you get
that signing bonus who really gives a damn.
Just be ready to never see the sun.
If you buy the bullshit about learning for learning's sake, anyone can
take any class at Penn... you're not restricted to your school. So
business people can take engineering classes and vice versa even though
you're not a student in the other school.
If you get into Penn, but not M&T, don't give up... a lot of people are
allowed into the program even after admissions. Unless you're grades are
just ass, it's not likely that you'll get turned down. Penn is pretty
good about not getting into people's way if they aspire to do something.
The true test is that freshman year though. The entire year's like a
full moon night... weird things happen, grades fall, just weird. So if
you're a focused kinda person, you won't have too much problems.
best of luck w/ your admissions,
JenniferMayFloresEstaris
huge salt lick. Information asymmetry isn't just for the nasdaq.
That said...
I agree with (most) everything Terence said. It's a hard, hardcore
program, but only because they work your ass off. If you really want to do
the hardest program at Penn, try being a pre-med Finance and Healthcare
major. The harsh curves in pre-med and finance classes are what hits a
student hardest. Like AsiaSunset said, there's a bit of teamwork and
resultingly, camraderie, that comes from being M&T that you're not going
to get from being pre-med.
There are similar programs than Penn's M&T, but you're not going to get
the same business school quality/name recognition--which is nice during
recruiting. Reputation-wise, an engineer is an engineer is an
engineer (unless you're MIT or CalTech or etc)--the word "engineer"
already calls up respect. And I'm not sure about the statement "if you
want to emphasize on business than engineering, then M&T is just the right
program for you." Is that a typo or something? As an IS person, I was
"lucky" enough to take a number of classes with M&T people. Most of them
saw their business classes as cake, supplementary, getting their piece of
paper deal.
Oh, on a side note, I've noticed most M&T were comp. sci. and
(finance or opim). Use the parenthesis as you would with PEMDAS.
It seems the most practical, for the best run of your money (though a hard
trip), to take finance over OPIM, as there is a lot of overlapping between
opim and comp. engineering.
If you're worried about getting in (though your scores look good to me),
I had a few friends who started off in engineering and then got in to the
M&T program after freshman year. An option, though not the most optimal,
if for no other reason than the fact that you have to take Management 100
after your freshman year, which is silly enough to begin with and even
sillier when you're up all night programming in ML and suddenly realizing
you have to go sell candy-grams in two hours.
Also, don't think you won't have time to be social, do extracurriculars,
start your own business, whatever. I know a number of M&T who do this
successfully.
Remember, the M&T program isn't hard, it's hardcore, and it carries a lot
of prestige. You seem to want this, so you should be fine...and
btw, that writing score of 770 may give you an edge.
Jennifer
Terence Chang (tere...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu) wrote:
: It's a pretty impressive program if you can pull it off. Most people who
: are Fin/engineer types end up in I-banking anyways but for Tech sectors.
: Basically that whole schpeal about having technical skills and business
: know-how is pretty true. The bad thing is that it is VERY rare to find a
: job right out of college that will even be close to the experience that
: M&T kids have in college. My point here is that after college, you'll
: tend to lose step in one or the other field. But I guess after you get
: that signing bonus who really gives a damn.
: Just be ready to never see the sun.
: If you buy the bullshit about learning for learning's sake, anyone can
: take any class at Penn... you're not restricted to your school. So
: business people can take engineering classes and vice versa even though
: you're not a student in the other school.
: If you get into Penn, but not M&T, don't give up... a lot of people are
: allowed into the program even after admissions. Unless you're grades are
: just ass, it's not likely that you'll get turned down. Penn is pretty
: good about not getting into people's way if they aspire to do something.
: The true test is that freshman year though. The entire year's like a
: full moon night... weird things happen, grades fall, just weird. So if
: you're a focused kinda person, you won't have too much problems.
: best of luck w/ your admissions,
--
JenniferMayFloresEstaris Home: 212-532-6143 Work: 212-522-7961
"everything in life is like a fax machine, but different,
except for a fax machine." -- donny kranson
Boy, n.:
A noise with dirt on it.
Allan C Lai
From what terence said, I think mit can give you more flexibility if you
want to do both business and engineering. As I mentioned earlier it
does not require separate application, nor is it going to take you more
than 4 years. Most people complete their double major in 4 years, or
there's a 5 year MEng. program so you can earn a BS from Sloan and a M.
Eng. in 5 years. Best of all, you still get to take humanity classes,
since they are institute requirements. Email me if you need more
information.
allan
Terence Chang
theater and try to convert your high rise New York apartment into a
coffee house with alterna bands. That's pretty hard core, even worse is
stalking a subletter who left for NYU and won't pay his f_cking summer
rent even though he left the air conditioner all summer. That's hard core.
But about M&T... engineering at Penn's not as reputable as
Caltech/MIT/and some state-funded schools in terms of facilities and
research and even faculty reputation. In that sense, if you can get into
a better engineering school than Penn's, do so by all means because for
some stupid reason, engineers feel slighted by Wharton's presence, while
kids in the College either get kidnapped into Wharton or are utterly
repulsed by it.
MIT's a great school and I defer to those who know more about it to talk
more about it. What I liked about Wharton was the array of choices that
you can major in. Though most people (40%) of the people choose Finance
anyways because it's arguable pretty kick ass, a lot of people do weird
shit with their Finance concentration by either finding some other "soft"
concentration or dual degree. And those who don't do Finance are usually
pretty well off doing other shit with some combos.
This is what you should do, decide if M&T's your thing, then decide if
Wharton's your thing... if not you can go to other schools that have M&T
type programs. But here's my selling point: go to www.wharton.upenn.edu
and just check out the amount of different options you have in terms of
business majors. Most schools have 5: fin, accounting, marketing, MIS,
management. You'll find that Penn's got some that are just weird, which
is cool.
OPIM is decision science, information systems, and operations research,
while Finance has 4 different designation. Accounting's the same
everywhere else, but if there's a part of you that's interested in Public
Policy, Environmental Policy, Health Care, Real estate, insurance, or
whatever, then Penn might be your thing. Management used to divide into
human resource, organizational, strategic and multinational management
but was combined into one last couple of years just to screw over the
seniors. But the courses are still there.
Engineering's pretty much the same... except there's CSE, systems, and
bioengineering along with the traditional ChemE, EE, and Civ. Other
schools have this too, but not all. As an engineer, you might appreciate
the fact that everything is on one campus... the med school, law school,
engineering, everything. So you don't have to venture too far if you're
doing some research for some bio-genomic nanotech law professor or
whatever.
Mgmt 100 is just stupid, but it's funny and you meet cool people or get
into fights. Either way, it's worth taking it just to laugh about how
stupid the study of business is.
Go to Penn to get shot, Go to MIT to swim.
JenniferMayFloresEstaris (jest...@dept.english.upenn.edu) wrote:
: First things first, Sanjay, be sure to take everything you hear with a