AP Classes/Credit - Why take them?
cheree
when I was looking at Stanford Unversity's policies (and I'm assuming that
theirs is somewhat typical), that they will give up to 45 units of credit for
AP classes...primarily if the student earned a 4 or 5 on the AP exam.
My son took AP Lang/Comp (recieved a 4 on the exam), AP American History
(received a 4), and AP Caculus (Math BC - received a 5) this past year (his
junior year). According to their chart, he would receive the following
unit of credits for obtaining a 4 or 5 on those AP exams.
AP English (Lang/Comp) - 6 quarter units of credit will be given
AP U.S. History - 10 quarter units of credit will be given
AP Mathematics BC - 10 quarter units of credit will be given
So, he would (if he were accepted to Stanford) receive 26 units of credit.
For his senior year he is scheduled to take the following AP classes:
AP Biology
AP Physics
AP Literature/Composition
AP Statistics
Providing he made a 4,5 on these exams, he would receive the following units
of credit:
AP Biology - 10 quarter units of credit would be given
AP Physics - 10 quarter units of credit would be given
(AP Lit/Comp - 6(?) quarter units of credit would be given if they
give more than just 6 credits for "English)
(AP Statistics - None listed)
Providing all of his AP efferts were successful, he would earn 46 units of
credit for AP English, AP U.S. History, AP Math BC, AP Biology, and AP
Physics. He would only lose 1 quarter unit of credit. Which is not a
problem.
What I wonder about is this: If he happens to take additional AP classes (or
any students who might) that would go over the unit of credits - say they
ended up with having earned (in theory) 60 quarter units of credit, would they
simply not get credit for those additional 15 quarter units of credit?
If so, why take the AP classes if the student will not receive credit?
(Other than the benefits from taking a challenging class and for learning more
than might be gained in an honors or regular class in the same subject?)
Which granted, is a good reason...but, it seems discouraging that the student
would do the work which should qualify them for college credit, yet they would
not be eligible for it.
As well, I noticed that AP Statistics is not listed. I'm not sure if this is
just such a new area that they haven't updated their list (a question for
Stanford of course) and as well, they only list "English" as receiving 6 units
of credit.
Since my son took the AP Lang/Composition last year and is scheduled to take
AP Lit/Composition his senior year, does this mean he would only qualify for 6
credits, and basically an additional AP English class would not earn him
additional credits? (He would go over the 45 credits anyway) - another
question for Stanford directly. However, I'm not picking on Stanford, I'm
just using their policies as an example and I'm thinking that other schools
have similar policies.
Would it be better for a student who has hit that "45" unit of credits mark to
take a class at a local university instead so as to attempt to get college
credit for further classes beyond that 45 unit of credits mark?
The universities encourage students to take as challenging slate of classes as
possible...but yet the students will be limited to the number of credits they
can earn from these classes. I admit, my son has gained a great deal from
these classes and will most likely take the additional classes anyway
(he does enjoy learning at a higher level and the challenge)...but I'm just
wondering if it might not be better for him to take a university class instead
of the AP Statistics class if the school he is interested in will not give any
units of credit for it (be it Stanford or any college).
As I said, I'm just using what I learned from Stanford (their credit status
seems very generous) as an example (in theory)...so I do not wish to direct
this discussion towards Stanford, but towards earning AP credits at any school
and if there are limitations on what colleges take...and the advantages and
reasons for taking AP classes beyond what colleges will accept for credit
anyway.
Anyone have any feelings on this?
Any students out there who have gone to college and can share what happened
with their AP classes?
Any advise from college students or college admissions counselors out there?
Any advise from what decisions current juniors/seniors in high schools have
made concerning AP class selections?
Thank you for your insight and advise!
Steve
cheree
>Anyone have any feelings on this?
>Any students out there who have gone to college and can share what happened
>with their AP classes?
>Any advise from college students or college admissions counselors out there?
>Any advise from what decisions current juniors/seniors in high schools have
>made concerning AP class selections?
>
>Thank you for your insight and advise!
>Steve
Sorry, got the wrong signature sign off here, should have been
"cheree"...sorry for any confusion.
cheree
AJMSC
Stanford's policy. As we all well know, Stanford is an ivy league school,
so majority of the students have taken AP courses. It's in my experience
that the Ivy League AP policy is the toughest. Probably because the school
doesn't want to loose money. In most other colleges, if you earn a 4 or 5
you can get credit.
Unless you are sure he will be going to an Ivy league school, which likes AP
classes on applications anyway, I would take the extra English class.
hope this answers your question,
Marita
Udi Falkson
ummm... no it isn't.
Jim Coffey
Udi Falkson wrote in message <6o84bp$ocj$1...@supernews.com>...
>"Stanford is an ivy league school"
>
>ummm... no it isn't.
>
>
Of course not. The four schools that make up the Ivy (IV - get it? IV is 4
in greek) League are:
Harvard
Yale
Michigan
Chicago (until it left for the Big Ten and was replaced by:)
Penn State (Home of the (Edith) Wharton School)
Hope this helps,
-jlc
Weirdkid2
Harvard
yale
princeton
dartmouth
UPENN... not penn state
Brown
Columbia
Cornell
And take STAT AP... it is really new and incredibly easy to learn on your own
cheree
You think someone could take the AP Statistics exam without having taken the
class? Just study it on your own?
Keith Baird
> In looking over how colleges handle AP classes a student has taken, I noticed
> when I was looking at Stanford Unversity's policies (and I'm assuming that
> theirs is somewhat typical), that they will give up to 45 units of credit for
> AP classes...primarily if the student earned a 4 or 5 on the AP exam.
Stanford's policy is not that they will _award_ a maximum of 45 units by
exam, its that they'll permit a maximum of 45 units earned by exam to
_apply_toward_the_degree_. Two very different things.
The wise student will decide in high school in what they want to major
in college, learn what college-level coursework usually is required for
such majors, and take the appropriate AP classes/tests to yield the
necessary credit. Taking high school AP courses without such a plan
is exactly like taking courses in college without without a plan; the
student ends up with credit that doesn't count toward the degree.
--/<eith
cheree
Thanks for this information. I see that the maximum of 45 units earned by
exam will apply towards a specific degree if the AP courses taken are ones
that are also required for one's degree. Thanks for that clarification.
Part of the problem is that many high school students do not yet know what
they will be majoring in when they get to college...they might have an idea,
but even then, plans can change.
We attended an information session at Stanford by one of their admissions
staff and they said that they don't even care if a student declares a major as
a freshman and it is not required that they declare a major until the end of
their sophomore year. They encourage their students to explore many different
areas before deciding upon a major. (Those who do not have a definate major in
mind). He also said that they like to see students take classes (AP classes
included) in areas where the student might not end up majoring in to show a
well-rounded education and a student with strengths in many areas.
I think the wise student realizes his options and keeps an open mind as to
what he may end up with as a major. I don't think that a high school student
who has not decided upon a major is less wise than one who has. Maybe those
who do know are lucky to know for sure what they want to major in and can
plan their AP classes accordingly.
For those who are 100% sure of their major and who have an idea what the
requirements will be by the time they graduate, then your suggestions would
work well. That doesn't apply for my son. He has so many interests (and
strengths in those areas), he's struggling to decide which area he would
really like to end up in as a major or career. He is exploring his options.
I think the solution for him is to take those AP classes he is interested in
and gain from the challenges of those classes as well as enjoy the
"in-depthness" they provide. To not worry whether he'll get credit for all of
them or not down the road. There's really no way to predict anyway since
different colleges have different policies.
As well, I saw a new Stanford AP credit chart, and they do now include credit
for AP Statistics (score of 4,5 = 5 units of credit).
Again, thank you Keith for your information. I'm not a professional in a
college system, just a Mom and I appreciate everyone's input!
Nathan Banks
Keith Baird <kba...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in article
<kbaird-1307...@adm09.reg.utexas.edu>...
> spar...@dimensional.com (cheree) wrote:
> The wise student will decide in high school in what they want to major
> in college, learn what college-level coursework usually is required for
> such majors, and take the appropriate AP classes/tests to yield the
> necessary credit. Taking high school AP courses without such a plan
> is exactly like taking courses in college without without a plan; the
> student ends up with credit that doesn't count toward the degree.
Gee, and here I thought one of the good things about college is that it
gives people a chance to try many different things and decide what they
want to do with a good portion of thier lives. Silly me, we should all be
making our life plans starting in Kindergarten.
ttyl
cheree
Actually, please reread the posting. I (cheree) did not say this posting you
are responding to: "The wise student will decide in high school in
what..."....Keith Baird said that. He was responding to my initial post. I
made a follow up posting to him. I know this looks confusing. I'm not sure
why it came off looking like "spar...@dimensional.com (cheree) wrote:" when
that was not what I wrote...
In article <01bdae8b$28e315e0$12839ecf@nathan>, "Nathan Banks"
Keith Baird
> Gee, and here I thought one of the good things about college is that it
> gives people a chance to try many different things and decide what they
> want to do with a good portion of thier lives. Silly me, we should all be
> making our life plans starting in Kindergarten.
I concur with your sentiment, if not your sarcasm. However, I work at
a large public university where we frequently see students & parents
who take a "consumer" approach to higher education and don't want to
pay for coursework that serves no degree purpose.
Likewise Legislators, who these days seem more interested in supporting
"workforce education" than learning for its own sake, are demanding ever
more efficient use of state resources in delivering instruction, which
translates into less room for exploratory coursework that is not directly
on track for the student's degree.
--/<eith
Darccity
>in college, learn what college-level coursework usually is required for
>such majors, and take the appropriate AP classes/tests to yield the
>necessary credit.
Not necessarily. AP scores are often best for gaining admission to the college
of your choice. Then, you are better off taking the real version of that
course from an experienced PhD-holding expert in the field, ESPECIALLY in your
major. Instead, you might want to use AP test to gain credit in general
education requirements (literature, history, or french, for example) that you
don't plan to continue your studies.
Darccity
>as a freshman and not required that they declare a major until the end of
>their sophomore year. They encourage students to explore many
>different areas before deciding upon a major.
Here, here. Few college require that a student declare a major in lower
division. Exploring is great. At a recent tour, the guides asked what major
areas of interest the students had, and nearly all were "undecided." Until you
have taken a few courses, you cannot make a fully informed decision.
Darccity
>a large public university where we frequently see students & parents
>who take a "consumer" approach to higher education and don't want to
>pay for coursework that serves no degree purpose.
I also work at a large public university which is up in arms at legislative
meddling in the sacred academic responsibility of curriculum decisions. Having
chaired curriculum committees, I can tell you that self-serving abuses can and
do occur. Seven to nine years for a BA is too long. Thus, legislatures step
in where boards of regents, chancellors, and dean fear to tread. When citizens
are subsidizing the major portion of educational expenses, and these citizens
have average incomes substantially below the expected incomes of the university
graduates, it is reasonable to demand a ceiling on credits required for degrees
and majors (engineering and education are often the worst in this regard).
Unfortunately, this political intervention is a last resort. But as the church
lady used to say on Saturday Night Live about rationalizing self-interest as
honor and integrity, "isn't that convenient." Ideally, faculty committees
should make these decisions. Unfortunately, it is often in everyone's best
interest to pad the course requirements, not accept transfer credits, ignore
articulation agreements, etc. at the same time they advocate 12-week semesters.
Maybe political "meddling" will be a wake up call to faculty governance to be
more proactive.