Carnegie Mellon University Visit
Sally
college visit. And it sucked. Be forewarned, I am venting, ragging and
criticizing here.
Okay, so we drive off early in the morning to look for the parking
garage. But it just wasn't where I expected it to be according to the
map. Then, when we find it, I discover they have printed the map
upside down. North is at the bottom!! And no clear indication that
they are not following convention. I am outraged and flabergasted. Do
they realize what trouble they cause? Travesty, absolute travesty.
I have to admit the people were wonderful. A kind professor took pity
on us as we were struggling with the map trying to find registration.
He helped us find it. His son is going to Berkeley. Not such a bad
choice. They print their map with north at the top.
So on to registration, where a folder is handed to each student. This
has never happened before. But I have never done a private college
tour before!! I am ready for red carpet treatment, but I am quickly
disappointed. Next came the usual boring welcome. Except the
admissions guy tells us that the average student buys three computers
during their stay at CMU. I think he was trying to sell computers.
Good money for the college.
So the dorm tour, led by a blond in stilletto heels. Nothing wrong
with that. I guess. We went to the newest dorm on campus. Which was
nice, except that the one room we saw seemed like a cave because the
window was so small. The student who showed it told us his roommate
dropped out because of his drinking problem. Okay, so that happens at
every school. No big deal.
Then there was something in the schedule called "Design Dept." Later
in the schedule was a design department tour, so I thought it was a
misprint. It was a misprint, but of a different sort. It was Design
Dept Advising. Okay, cool, no prepared questions because we didn't
know this was available, but we went anyway. Again, the advisor was
lovely. Full of information. Very helpful. We find out that students
can apply to more than one major. I didn't know that!! Why wasn't that
made clear on the application? You mean you might be rejected from
Design, but still get into Art? Yes. If only we had known....
Next we visited a class and talked with two students. One was from
California. The other, who was from Pittsburgh, said that when she was
first making her decision, CMU was at the bottom of the list. But as
time past, it floated to the top. She was quite happy there. And no
wonder. She didn't have to rely on the printed materials to get
information.
Then lunch, called "taste." Admitted students eat with current
students. One half hour. The parents rush though lunch to be back in
time, then find that Taste lasts over an hour. Oh, well.
Finally, family tradition, we break into a dorm. This time it is
Henderson, the only substance-free dorm on campus. Of course, their
housing literature doesn't say so. And when I call on the phone they
have to go research it, but hey, it is obscure information. As usual,
entrance to the dorm is easy. The hard part is finding someone to talk
to. The dorm was dead. We sat in the stairwell for almost 1/2 hour
before we found someone. Then we pounced on the first person we saw.
Again, she was very friendly and helpful. But what is this, three
people in a four person suite? We have seen two dorm rooms and two
people have dropped out? What is the retention rate at CMU anyway?
The dorm room was recently renovated and very nice. Good view of
vegetation. But the dormie was moving into an apartment. I guess
Henderson Hall was not a great environment. No lounge on the
first-year floor. No communal bathroom. Hard to meet people. But then
we find out about the lottery. On the tour, they told us, that as long
as you live on campus, you can continue to live on campus. So why
leave the system? We found out. People with a lousy lottery number and
a lousy assignment often find an apartment near campus instead. Then
they are stuck outside the system for the rest of the time there,
because housing is no longer guaranteed.
And paying for food was enormously crazy. First, you get a "block" for
each meal, which is a set amount of money. The dormie we met said she
found herself buying an extra cookie or granola bar so as not to waste
money in the block. But if you go over, you use another system, Dinex,
to pay for the extra. Then there is a separate debit system that can
be used for food, books, etc. What a mess!! I think it should be money
based or meal based, not both. So, this kind generous dormie took us
to a smoothie place to show us how it worked, since she had some block
money that had to be spent before 4 pm. We got there in time, but the
card was not used until after 4, so the block disappeared and she had
to use debit money instead. Is that legal? Anyway, she was really
wonderful. She must have spent an hour answering questions. But the
meal plan!! Too confusing!!
Okay, things were not going well, but we decided to go on the campus
tour to get the full story. The drama major who led the tour was good
at telling stories. Very entertaining. But the campus!! Just lawns and
leafless trees. Can't they grow evergreens in Pittsburgh? Have they
ever heard of a landscaper? Okay, so it is not California, I don't
expect lush. But does it have to be so boring?
And then the finale. We couldn't get out of the parking garage. I
thought we were going to have to bust out!! Finally, another kind
person took pity on us and explained how the system worked. The
messages we were getting from the signs certainly weren't making any
sense. Six dollars later, freedom!!
To sum up, the people are wonderful, but never trust the printed
material. We felt totally misled several times over. Very bad
impression. Crossed that one off the list. A step closer to The
Decision.
* * *
I just have to tell everybody about the Frick Art and History center,
which we visited the next day. Lovely 10 acre grounds. Art museum.
Victorian mansion tour. Carriage and antique car museum. Conservatory.
And the most exquisite lunch in a cute glassed-in garage. The bananas
in our pudding had been grown in the conservatory. So delightful!!
Frick was the highlight of our trip.
octo
CMU is a fall back school for top students from this school:
http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/careercenter/scatter/cmu.html
Greater than 80% acceptance rate.
She should stick with MIT:
http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/careercenter/scatter/mit.html
sun...@prodigy.net (Sally) wrote in message news:<2398fe97.04041...@posting.google.com>...
Sally
> Sally,
>
> CMU is a fall back school for top students from this school:
>
> http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/careercenter/scatter/cmu.html
What school?
>
> Greater than 80% acceptance rate.
>
> She should stick with MIT:
>
> http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/careercenter/scatter/mit.html
MIT is not an option.
Here are the contenders in alphabetical order:
Mechanical Engineering at UC Berkeley.
Pre-design at UC Davis.
Art History at UCLA.
Undeclared Honors Program at University of Washington, Seattle.
The interest in the crossover between the technical and the artistic
is clear in the choice of majors. Graphic design was of great interest
at the time of application. Now the interest has shifted to product
design/industrial design. The interest may shift again. Anybody care
to advise?
Sal
SJG
2398fe97.04041...@posting.google.com, "Sally"
<sun...@prodigy.net> wrote:
Not totally sure about my response, but one of my friends is in Stanford's
graduate design program. All of them have engineers backgrounds, so
possibly that's a better route to industrial design.
But maybe she should talk to professionals in the field and see what they
think about undergraduate majors. Additionally, she might want to see how
the various programs place their graduates -- do they go into careers she's
interested in -- talk to students in the programs along with the actual
department (who might be less than straightforward)? A department's career
(and academic) networks are (obviously) very important.
octo
> > http://www.mvhs.fuhsd.org/careercenter/scatter/cmu.html
>
> What school?
> Here are the contenders in alphabetical order:
> Mechanical Engineering at UC Berkeley.
It would be great to rub shoulders with UCB's Drake Scholars in ME;
http://www.coe.berkeley.edu/current_students/announce/scholgrants.html
You considered San Francisco Art Academy?
Hank Murphy
>MIT is not an option.
>
>
>Here are the contenders in alphabetical order:
>Mechanical Engineering at UC Berkeley.
>Pre-design at UC Davis.
>Art History at UCLA.
>Undeclared Honors Program at University of Washington, Seattle.
>
>The interest in the crossover between the technical and the artistic
>is clear in the choice of majors. Graphic design was of great interest
>at the time of application. Now the interest has shifted to product
>design/industrial design. The interest may shift again. Anybody care
>to advise?
I hesitate to give advice, but...the only industrial designer I know had the
following history: 8 years in the Marines, S/Sgt, attended (I believe)
Southern Illinois - Carbondale, and is currently the lead industrial
designer for a well-known company in the music business. You make your own
breaks...
I have a couple of opinions which may be completely wrong, but then everyone
has an opinion...
I have the feeling that this field is similar to architecture, where
creative and artistic thinkers use mathematics and engineering in producing
their works. I also think that it's a feast-or-famine field, dependent on
the capital expenditure cycle in companies developing their next product.
At the same time, it has a more cultural aspect than, for example,
structural engineering, and I think it may be less subject to offshore
outsourcing in the future...lots of companies laying off their manufacturing
staffs still cling to a fig leaf of "designed in the USA".
All of these are good schools, but I'm not sure that any of them are a
straight path to your daughter's eventual career path. I'm a UCLA booster,
but Art History does not sound like the right major. (Note that UCLA
Extension has a number of courses which might be much closer to your
daughter's plans, but they are not degree credit IIRC.)
Might I suggest going to www.idsa.org and looking for a local chapter?
Perhaps that could put you in touch with someone in the field who could give
better advice.
She might also look at Parsons Design, but knowing which industry she is
considering would be useful information before proceeding.
OTOH, a degree from any of the schools listed is an asset, and I don't know
that any of these really outshines the others in this area. The top four in
US News (graduate listing) are:
1. Art Center College of Design (CA)
2. Rhode Island School of Design
3. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
(Tie) Cranbrook Academy of Art (MI)
I imagine you may have already examined these.
One other danger is that I may be expecting that she will stay within the
parameters of the areas you mention (graphic design, industrial design,
product design). If you think that will be the case, then I'd also strongly
also consider Art Center. If you think it's likely that she will change her
mind again, then one of the schools you've already listed will provide more
options without transferring colleges.
Good luck with a happy but challenging decision, and let us know how it
works out.
Hank Murphy
speaking only for myself
Sally
> > is clear in the choice of majors. Graphic design was of great interest
> > at the time of application. Now the interest has shifted to product
> > design/industrial design. The interest may shift again. Anybody care
> > to advise?
>
> Not totally sure about my response, but one of my friends is in Stanford's
> graduate design program. All of them have engineers backgrounds, so
> possibly that's a better route to industrial design.
I agree.
>
> But maybe she should talk to professionals in the field and see what they
> think about undergraduate majors. Additionally, she might want to see how
> the various programs place their graduates -- do they go into careers she's
> interested in -- talk to students in the programs along with the actual
> department (who might be less than straightforward)? A department's career
> (and academic) networks are (obviously) very important.
Good ideas.
Sal
Sally
Hard to find technology and engineering at an art school.
Sal
Sally
> Sally wrote in message <2398fe97.04041...@posting.google.com>...
>
> >MIT is not an option.
> >
> >
> >Here are the contenders in alphabetical order:
> >Mechanical Engineering at UC Berkeley.
> >Pre-design at UC Davis.
> >Art History at UCLA.
> >Undeclared Honors Program at University of Washington, Seattle.
> >
> >The interest in the crossover between the technical and the artistic
> >is clear in the choice of majors. Graphic design was of great interest
> >at the time of application. Now the interest has shifted to product
> >design/industrial design. The interest may shift again. Anybody care
> >to advise?
>
> I hesitate to give advice, but...the only industrial designer I know had the
> following history: 8 years in the Marines, S/Sgt, attended (I believe)
> Southern Illinois - Carbondale, and is currently the lead industrial
> designer for a well-known company in the music business. You make your own
> breaks...
I agree that personal qualities like motivation and persistance are
important.
>
> I have a couple of opinions which may be completely wrong, but then everyone
> has an opinion...
>
> I have the feeling that this field is similar to architecture, where
> creative and artistic thinkers use mathematics and engineering in producing
> their works.
Right.
I also think that it's a feast-or-famine field, dependent on
> the capital expenditure cycle in companies developing their next product.
> At the same time, it has a more cultural aspect than, for example,
> structural engineering, and I think it may be less subject to offshore
> outsourcing in the future...lots of companies laying off their manufacturing
> staffs still cling to a fig leaf of "designed in the USA".
Interesting points.
>
> All of these are good schools, but I'm not sure that any of them are a
> straight path to your daughter's eventual career path. I'm a UCLA booster,
> but Art History does not sound like the right major. (Note that UCLA
> Extension has a number of courses which might be much closer to your
> daughter's plans, but they are not degree credit IIRC.)
I'll have to check out the extension program. Thanks for the info. She
could change her major, I think. How hard is it to get into Mech Eng
at UCLA? Maybe I should email the school.
>
> Might I suggest going to www.idsa.org and looking for a local chapter?
> Perhaps that could put you in touch with someone in the field who could give
> better advice.
I'll try that.
>
> She might also look at Parsons Design, but knowing which industry she is
> considering would be useful information before proceeding.
Maybe for summer. Art school seems like the wrong choice. Math and
Engineering are important, in my opinion.
>
> OTOH, a degree from any of the schools listed is an asset, and I don't know
> that any of these really outshines the others in this area. The top four in
> US News (graduate listing) are:
>
> 1. Art Center College of Design (CA)
> 2. Rhode Island School of Design
> 3. Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
> (Tie) Cranbrook Academy of Art (MI)
>
> I imagine you may have already examined these.
Too arty, except for CMU. I suppose you read my report of our visit?
It is off the list.
>
> One other danger is that I may be expecting that she will stay within the
> parameters of the areas you mention (graphic design, industrial design,
> product design). If you think that will be the case, then I'd also strongly
> also consider Art Center. If you think it's likely that she will change her
> mind again, then one of the schools you've already listed will provide more
> options without transferring colleges.
Yes, options. I think art school is too narrow.
>
> Good luck with a happy but challenging decision, and let us know how it
> works out.
Thanks.
Sal
Abe Kohen
"Sally" <sun...@prodigy.net> wrote
> So, other people are making their decisions, but we made one last
> college visit. And it sucked. Be forewarned, I am venting, ragging and
> criticizing here.
>
> Okay, so we drive off early in the morning to look for the parking
> garage. But it just wasn't where I expected it to be according to the
> map. Then, when we find it, I discover they have printed the map
> upside down. North is at the bottom!! And no clear indication that
> they are not following convention. I am outraged and flabergasted. Do
> they realize what trouble they cause? Travesty, absolute travesty.
OK, so you are not an expert at maps, but your art/design student could not
figure this out?
Most maps of Manhattan, including our NYC subway maps are not drawn to
"true" north, but rather to "logical" north.
MIT's police map points to logical north (so that Memorial Drive and the
Charles River are to the logical south).
Cornell's map points to true north.
> Okay, so it is not California, I don't
> expect lush. But does it have to be so boring?
Precisely why Benazir Bhutto was sent to Harvard, rather than her father's
Berkeley.
If the shoe doesn't fit ...
;-)
Best of luck,
Abe
Sally
> "Sally" <sun...@prodigy.net> wrote
> > So, other people are making their decisions, but we made one last
> > college visit. And it sucked. Be forewarned, I am venting, ragging and
> > criticizing here.
> >
> > Okay, so we drive off early in the morning to look for the parking
> > garage. But it just wasn't where I expected it to be according to the
> > map. Then, when we find it, I discover they have printed the map
> > upside down. North is at the bottom!! And no clear indication that
> > they are not following convention. I am outraged and flabergasted. Do
> > they realize what trouble they cause? Travesty, absolute travesty.
>
> OK, so you are not an expert at maps, but your art/design student could not
> figure this out?
Sure, she could figure it out, I could figure it out, once I realized
what was going on.
>
> Most maps of Manhattan, including our NYC subway maps are not drawn to
> "true" north, but rather to "logical" north.
This is cool:
http://home.swipnet.se/webcams/manhattan.htm
This is not cool:
http://www.cmu.edu/home/visitors/map/
>
> MIT's police map points to logical north (so that Memorial Drive and the
> Charles River are to the logical south).
>
> Cornell's map points to true north.
>
> > Okay, so it is not California, I don't
> > expect lush. But does it have to be so boring?
>
> Precisely why Benazir Bhutto was sent to Harvard, rather than her father's
> Berkeley.
I don't catch your drift.
>
> If the shoe doesn't fit ...
Especially not at that price.
>
> ;-)
>
> Best of luck,
Thanks,
Sal
>
> Abe
John K
about 5 miles from CMU you could buy a nice house in Homestead,
Munhall for about $40k.
John
Abe Kohen
"Sally" <sun...@prodigy.net> wrote
> "Abe Kohen" <ako...@xenon.stanford.edu> wrote
> > "Sally" <sun...@prodigy.net> wrote
> > > Okay, so it is not California, I don't
> > > expect lush. But does it have to be so boring?
> >
> > Precisely why Benazir Bhutto was sent to Harvard, rather than her
father's
> > Berkeley.
>
> I don't catch your drift.
Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto attended Berkeley with its mild climate and its
beautiful surroundings. He was afraid that his daughter Benazir would be too
distracted at Berkeley or Stanford, so he had her sent to Harvard instead.
Unfortunately the deposed leader must have learned the wrong lessons at
Harvard.
Abe
Sally
Abe,
I just couldn't believe that you were saying that nice weather and
lovely surroundings would be a detriment. I find lousy weather and
ugliness more distracting. You sure that decision didn't have more to
do with the Free Speech Movement and general political activism at
Berkeley? What year did she graduate?
Sal
Abe Kohen
June 1973.
Abe
octo
> June 1973.
>
> Abe
Can you imagine a student focusing on Maxwell Equations instead of
Grateful Dead between 1969 and 1973 in Berkeley? Her experience is
outside 4 sigma and should be discounted.