Save As... in Mountain Lion

[mac98aop]

I've not upgraded (yet) but it seems the hotly anticipated return of Save As... to ML has made an awful mess of things? It's returned in name, but not function?!?!

Anyone else noticed that it doesn't behave as it did in the good old days?

?!?!

[itsa...@mac.com]

Well, in ML TextEdit it works as "Save As ..." did:

I have a TextEdit document saved on my desktop.

I open it

Choose Save As from the File menu (holding down the option key)

I get a dialog where I choose a destination directory (say Desktop too) and enter a new name

Click Save

I'm now editing my newly saved variant of my document which is on my desktop.

That is the way I would expect it to be - what "awful mess" do you understand it to be causing?

I think that, like the reverse scrolling, when you understand what Lion and even more so, ML are doing with documents, it makes sense. Perhaps it's time to let go of the way we've been editing and saving documents for almost 30 years for something perhaps rather better?

I prefer the new way.

Cheers,

Stephen

Heaven is under our feet

[Russell Brown]

Steven, does the original document stay as it is or has it mirrored the changes you've made?  I understand that the "new" save as changes the file name but doesn't create a duplicate (albeit amended).

http://www.tuaw.com/2012/08/05/mountain-lion-bugs-chopped-battery-life-and-nonsensical-save-a/ 

I read this yesterday, though not had reason to check it myself yet.

Regards

Russell

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[itsa...@mac.com]

Hi Russell,

The author is right.

If I open a TextEdit document, makes some changes to it and then select "Save As", then both documents end up with the new changes. The "Save As" document has no previous versions, but the original document now has a prior version available through the "Browse All Versions ..." menu item from the document header. I don't feel that that this is a problem for me, but it IS different from the previous behaviour of document saving prior to Lion and ML.

Cheers,

Stephen

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[mac98aop]

Err, that's something of an 'awful mess.'

If previously I've edited a file, and halfway through thought "ah, this is best as a new document altogether, so I'll Save As.... " then that was that, with a nice new name and location. The original file remained as it was when I first opened it, BEFORE all edits.

NOW, with the new Save As... you don't get that at all.

That makes for quite a nasty shock when you open the original and find it has all the changes you made and THOUGHT you'd 'Saved As' something else!

No?

I just think to bring back the old command, but with new functionality, is odd, and not like Apple.

I mean, for switchers, they're used to seeing Save As... in Word for Windows. 

They'll get quite a shock on their new Mac when they realise that the same command does something quite different. 

New... Open... Exit... they're pretty universal now across platform.

I just think the new Apple take on Save As... is a confusing one.

That's all!

AP

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[itsa...@mac.com]

Well, I don't think it's an awful mess but it is confusing if you're not expecting it. The thing is that the fallback of recalling the previous version of your document now exists from Lion onwards. However, I think that it could still work in the old way without contradicting Apple's new ideas on document storage and saving, so probably a good idea to write to them via feedback ( http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html ) and ask them to change it and make it configurable behaviour! Remember, they did exactly that when people complained about the functionality change over the translucent menu bar on the Mac and the rotation lock / sound mute switch on the iPad. :)

Switchers have many things to adjust to and that's not a reason for not implementing a new way of handling files. My partner has just 'seen the light' and bought a MacBook Air and still has real trouble remembering that when you close a window it usually doesn't close the application and he keeps telling me it's no longer running. I say that there's no light under its icon in the dock and he replies "But I've closed all its windows". There's also the matter of a single menu bar instead of Windows' one for every window, and the return key edits a file's name and doesn't open the document and backspace doesn't delete things the way it does on Windows. File handling doesn't have to be just the same on a Mac as on Windows in my humble view, not if there's a better way of doing it (I'd agree though that the Save As behaviour does seem a little gratuitous).

Ah well ...

Stephen

On 7 Aug 2012, at 14:44, mac98aop <adamp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Err, that's something of an 'awful mess.'

If previously I've edited a file, and halfway through thought "ah, this is best as a new document altogether, so I'll Save As.... " then that was that, with a nice new name and location. The original file remained as it was when I first opened it, BEFORE all edits.

NOW, with the new Save As... you don't get that at all.

That makes for quite a nasty shock when you open the original and find it has all the changes you made and THOUGHT you'd 'Saved As' something else!

No?

I just think to bring back the old command, but with new functionality, is odd, and not like Apple.

I mean, for switchers, they're used to seeing Save As... in Word for Windows. 

They'll get quite a shock on their new Mac when they realise that the same command does something quite different. 

New... Open... Exit... they're pretty universal now across platform.

I just think the new Apple take on Save As... is a confusing one.

That's all!

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[mac98aop]

good point!

I'd not thought of all those other little subtle differences that lurk away in the general UI of things!

thanks for the feedback link. I guess what I'm saying is that if they want to keep the functionality, it needs a name change. if they keep Save As... (which indicates they listened to feedback which asked for its return) then it should have the Save As... usual functionality!

all good fun!

out of interest, what are you running on? I've got an early 2011 MBPro and just nervous about switching. Lion is a wee bit slower than SL, and I don't want it slower still (animation lags etc) but Sam suggests it's actually all a little smoother and zippier!?!? 

Your thoughts?

[Paul Owen]

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<http://m.gizmodo.com/5932772/conan-comedy-clip-satirizes-samsungs-blatant-apple-jealousy>


Paul Owen

[itsa...@mac.com]

Yes, perhaps a new name for it would help. Fun and games ...

Well, I've found ML to be smooth and a certainly a little quicker than Lion and not slower at all. It wakes from sleep MUCH faster on my iMac and there are many nice little touches and improvements all over but the proper iCloud integration with iOS apps of Pages and Numbers is what I've been waiting for ever since those two were released for iOS as the previous methods of file transfer sounded a right mess. I think iCloud works really well and the document transfer between my iMac and iPad is lovely.

My main, and very serious issue though, is that ML crashes loads. I've used OS X since I installed the OS X 10.0 Beta(!!) and I've never used a version that's crashed as much. Ironically, it crashed this morning whilst scrolling through some Google search images in Safari. It restarted itself and I logged in as my Admin user at which point it told me that my Mac hadn't been shut down and did I want to send a report to Apple, complete with system panic log and such. I began filling in the report to let Apple know and unbelievably it crashed AGAIN in the middle of writing up the previous crash!! It's been OK since then but I've had three restarts this morning. Diablo III, which ran just fine on Lion either runs flawlessly as before, or locks up and either freezes the OS totally without a cursor or spinning rainbow whell or causes a restart and you don't know which it will be in advance. Very exciting ...

I'm only on a standard 2011 iMac and nothing super fancy. 12GB RAM and an Airport Extreme. Personally, I couldn't recommend ML at present until this is sorted out. However, my partner has a 2011 MacBook Air and he upgraded to ML from Lion about 3 days after me and his has been absolutely fine. Make of it what you will.

Regards,

Stephen

On 8 Aug 2012, at 10:22, mac98aop <adamp...@gmail.com> wrote:

good point!

I'd not thought of all those other little subtle differences that lurk away in the general UI of things!

thanks for the feedback link. I guess what I'm saying is that if they want to keep the functionality, it needs a name change. if they keep Save As... (which indicates they listened to feedback which asked for its return) then it should have the Save As... usual functionality!

all good fun!

out of interest, what are you running on? I've got an early 2011 MBPro and just nervous about switching. Lion is a wee bit slower than SL, and I don't want it slower still (animation lags etc) but Sam suggests it's actually all a little smoother and zippier!?!? 

Your thoughts?

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[itsa...@mac.com]

Thanks for that Paul ;)

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[Chris Webb]

Stephen,

Out of interest, what version of the OS were you running before the upgrade?

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[itsa...@mac.com]

The very latest version of Lion ... 10.7.6?

Stephen

On 9 Aug 2012, at 11:52, Chris Webb <ch...@macservice.co.uk> wrote:

Stephen,

Out of interest, what version of the OS were you running before the upgrade?

Chris Webb . Principal

MacService 

Woodside, Brightling Road

Robertsbridge, East Sussex, TN32 5EL 

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[Chris Webb]

10.7.4 then. The reason I ask is that there were a raft of late 2008 iMacs and MacBooks that were fine running anything up to and including 10.7.3 but as soon as they were upgraded to 10.7.4 or 10.8 would start kernel panicking, showing a cpu1 error in the logs although the in-depth hardware tests showed no faults.

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[itsa...@mac.com]

Amazing how soon I forget! I'm also running ML on the latest iMac. Sigh.

Stephen

On 9 Aug 2012, at 14:50, Chris Webb <ch...@macservice.co.uk> wrote:

10.7.4 then. The reason I ask is that there were a raft of late 2008 iMacs and MacBooks that were fine running anything up to and including 10.7.3 but as soon as they were upgraded to 10.7.4 or 10.8 would start kernel panicking, showing a cpu1 error in the logs although the in-depth hardware tests showed no faults.

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