Integrating VSR with Orion Jr BMS
Chris Jones
Al Thomason
Chris,
Hello. Thanks for bringing this up in the mailing list, hope it can be of help for others as well.
Your timing is rather good – as at this moment I am working with Orion on creating a CAN configuration for their Orion Jr to tightly couple with the VSR Regulator, the Orion offerings are VERY flexible, and are based on J1939 as well! So, some things to consider on your questions.
Feature-in fail-to-safe: You have a really good point. Maybe I should have turned the logic around! But one idea, install about a 10K resistor between Feature-in and ALT+ (12v system). Then have the Orion Jr. pull-down the Feature-in to ‘enable’ the charging cycle. This way if something goes wrong, the Feature-in port will be pulled high and the regulator will go into Float. Another thing to consider: With proper configuration of the CPE, the regulator is fully able to decide on its own when to go into Float mode – it only lacks the cell-level measurements in case something goes off-balance in the battery. To your concern of restarting a charge cycle in some system failure mode, the regulator will quickly realize the battery is full and go into float on its own preventing any risk of overcharging. So, even without a pull-up on Feature-in to cause fail-to-safe, the regulator should in fact be able to properly and safely charge the battery (outside of being able to see a battery cell imbalance).
In setting things up you have to primarily decide WHO will normally handle the charging cycle, and who will be the backup. One option is to have the VSR regulator handle all the primary charging decisions, monitoring current and voltage and deciding when to go into Float, as well as when to exit float (All defined by the CPEs). In this setup you would have the Orion watching things, maybe have its trigger points a little higher than the ones used in the VSR. And in this setup the BMS would ONLY trigger the Feature-in port if something goes wrong, a cell out of balance, or whatever. In fact, in this type of setup you might even consider having the BMS trigger a relay on the ENABLE line instead – idea being, the ONLY time the BMS would step in is if something was out of acceptable operating ranges.
The other approach is have the Orion be the primary control point, tell the regulator when to Charge, and when to go into Float – via the Feature-in port. The VSR regulator would be configured as a backup, with its set points slightly higher – in case something happens with the BMS and/or wiring in the system. I think both are viable – up to you which approach to take.
Another thing to figure out is how to give some warning of impending panic disconnect of the battery. If the BMS decides to pull the plug and open the contactor even with a keeper battery there is a risk of a large voltage surge (Good to add snubber / TVS diodes to the regulator in any case). Worst case, the same signal that opens the contactor needs to cut the power to the VSR. Better if there is a signal ahead of time to cut the power to the regulator and let the alternator ‘spin down’ for a second of two before the contactor to the battery is opened.
AND there is also the CAN communications option with the Orion as well, if you want to look at that path.
USB: For longer term USB monitoring, you might consider installing a 1x5 header in the spot next to the USB connector. This is pinned out for (one of) the standard PC motherboard USB header cables. Get one, cut the +5 wire to keep the regulator from being powered on. Note that even so, every time you connect a terminal program the regulator will reset. This is part of the whole Arduino IDE and needed to be able to reflash. You can try lifting C13 to disable this (though you will need to reinstall it to upgrade firmware). Another idea that might work, but I have not tested it, is place a large (ala, 47uF or larger) cap across the ICSP point pint 5 and 6. (+ of cap on pin 5). And one more option is to use an external USB to TTL adapter dongle, connecting Tx to ICSP pin 3, Rx to pin 4, and GND to pin 6. Then connect your ‘monitor’ to this external dongle. Key here is separating out the RTS signal which is used to auto-reset the Arduino CPUs. Note that whatever you do you will need to disconnect it if you need to reflash.
There is also issues with ground loops in USB – it really was not designed for long distances. You might google up ‘Ground Isolation USB’ and see some products that can help if needed. In the end, if you are able to monitor via the CAN bus it will be a more reliable longer term solution – save the USB for close-up diagnostics.
OK, hope this gives you some idea. Looking forward to what you have for the next step!
-al-
Viking Star
45' Monk Sr. / McQueen
Chris Jones
Al Thomason
Chris, no problem. Hope the exchange can be help to others as well!
What you say below is correct. The function of Feature-in is normally to force the regulator into Equalize mode for CPE 1..7, but for CPE 8, Feature-in will force the regulator into Flat mode. How Float responds is dependent on how it is configured. By default the regulator regulators to 0A acceptance current in and out of the battery, but one could also set up Float to be a fixed voltage, to disable charging, etc… AND not to confuse things, but Feature-in only forces the regulator into float, but that does not mean that Float cannot be entered via the ‘normal’ progression through the charge stages.
Looking forward to see what you end up with!
Rick Gleason
Chris Jones
fcgl...@gmail.com
Chris
That’s great news. Thankyou. At the moment I am regretting not having ordered a VSR from Al earlier. Perhaps there is someone who is willing to sell one. I guess I’ll ask the group.
Would very much like to hear about your configuration.
Best
Rick
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: 'Chris Jones' via Smart Alternator Regulator
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2019 2:29 AM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator
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r...@pacificsun.ca
> That’s great news. Thankyou. At the moment I am regretting not having
> ordered a VSR from Al earlier. Perhaps there is someone who is willing
> to sell one. I guess I’ll ask the group.
shipping.
fcgl...@gmail.com
That’s also great. I’d like to buy it from you. How do we communicate? I don’t think I want to use the group and I don’t know if I should put my other email in here. Are you on the Cruiser
‘s Forum? My user name is ‘rgleason’ there. Maybe there is another way to do this.
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r...@pacificsun.ca
> That’s also great. I’d like to buy it from you. How do we communicate? I
> don’t think I want to use the group and I don’t know if I should put my
> other email in here. Are you on the Cruiser
>
> ‘s Forum? My user name is ‘rgleason’ there. Maybe there is another way
> to do this.
>
> Best
>
> Rick