Slovak Church Records

[Christine Lawlor]

It was a pleasant surprise that the church records are in latin. That said, while some names have to be translated, Michael is the same in latin or English. Does anyone know why? Christine

[Martin]

Michael is the same in latin or English. Does anyone know why?

The spelling of some names passed on to English and Slovak through Latin changed little, some changed more. For instance, Peter, David, merely lost the ending (Latin: Petrus, David/Davidus), but the first vowel changed in English from the original [e] and [ah] (preserved in Slovak) to [ee] and [ei] respectively.

Michael has actually changed a lot in English over the years. Its Latin pronunciation was [mee-kah-ehl] or [mee-khah-ehl], a far cry from what it is in English today. As to its English spelling, it returned to the Latin spelling Michael in recent centuries. It was spelled in a variety of ways in the more distant past, including, e.g., Mighel and My Helle.

[Michael Mojher]

The Latin form of Michael is Michaelis. Origin of the name, “ From the Hebrew name מִיכָאֵל (Mikha'el) meaning "who is like God?".” Since Rome controlled Israel they would have known the name. And gave it a Latin spelling.

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[Martin]

is Michaelis

No, no matter that some webpages fabricate such claims. Michaelis is merely a Latin (grammatical) case form of Michael, something like "Michael's" or "of Michael." Even the oldest Latin versions of the Bible spelled the name Michahel.

Later though, some inexperienced users of Latin, when it ceased to be anyone's native language and was used just by the Church and higher-level schools in Europe (especially English users of Latin, who lost any feeling for cases), began to confuse the Latin case form Michaelis with the basic Latin form of the name, Michael, but it hasn't changed the fact that the Latin version of the name has always been Michael.

• For instance, native speakers of English visiting Italy today may come across the name of a church written in Latin, e.g., Ecclesia Sancti Michaelis, and may derive from it that the form ending in -is is "Latin." It isn't. It translates to the Church "of St. Michael's," the endings -i and -is modify the meaning as indicated in parentheses, but the saint is Sanctus Michael in Latin, svätý Michal in Slovak.

[Dr. JQ]

You may find this useful.

http://dvhh.org/genealogy/given-name-cross-ref-lookup.pdf

Dr. "Q"

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From: Christine Lawlor <celaw...@gmail.com>
To: Slovak Spot <slova...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 9:10 AM

Subject: [Slovak Spot] Slovak Church Records

It was a pleasant surprise that the church records are in latin. That said, while some names have to be translated, Michael is the same in latin or English. Does anyone know why? Christine

[Dr. JQ]

The Latin used in the records is usually grammatically correct and the endings can cause confusio.  There are several sites that are useful interpreting Latin in old records:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Latin_Genealogical_Word_List

Finály Henrik: A latin nyelv szótára

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/frivs/latin/latin-dict-full.html

http://archives.nd.edu/latgramm.htm

There was a word list published by professor Lynn Nelson from the Univ Kansas that is very useful, however I cannot find it on the internet anymore, the following is close to what it offered:

http://www.latin-dictionary.net/list/letter/a

or you can struggle through the links on the page below:

Latin <-> English Dictionary

Dr. "Q"

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From: Martin <m.r.v...@gmail.com>
To: Slovak Spot <slova...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Slovak Spot] Slovak Church Records

[Christine Lawlor]

Dr. Q, Thank you, these links will be beneficial.

I had been using a Notre Dame online translator.

There was a most interesting term the other day: Spectabilis Dominus. I had found the non-indexed marriage records and found a treasure trove of nobility. According to what I've read so far, upward mobility was available through military service. I suspect I found the town I am researching was connected to a military post. The Sp. D. above was Count Ladislaus Pongracz, Captain of the Cavalry and Reformer of the military.

In conclusion, the Latin is keeping me interested, rather than discouraging me.

Christine

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[Dr. Q]

I am happy that the links helped.  The Latin in the records is often mixed with Hungarian and Slovak.

 Dr. "Q"

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From: Christine Lawlor <celaw...@gmail.com>

To: slova...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 3, 2017 6:09 AM

Subject: Re: [Slovak Spot] Slovak Church Records

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[Christine Lawlor]

Dr. Q,

I was working with these links to Latin translators today. I scrolled down the Notre Dame webpage and someone added a Latin Wordlist and Grammar Aid and gave credit to Lynn Nelson. It doesn't state when it was added, so I don't know whether you saw this or not.

Christine

[Dr. Q]

I do not know about the addition, however, Bill Crawley (William K.) can be reached at:

574-631-7761

He maintains that page and can probably tell you when the change was made.  Lynn Harry Nelson died in Sep 2012.  I attached a pdf of Nelson's latest Latin Words

Thank you and Veselé Vianoce a Šťastlivy Nový Rok.

Dr. "Q"

On Friday, December 28, 2018, 2:38:27 PM EST, Christine Lawlor <celaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dr. Q,

I was working with these links to Latin translators today. I scrolled down the Notre Dame webpage and someone added a Latin Wordlist and Grammar Aid and gave credit to Lynn Nelson. It doesn't state when it was added, so I don't know whether you saw this or not.

Christine

On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 3:42:36 PM UTC-4, Dr. Q wrote:

The Latin used in the records is usually grammatically correct and the endings can cause confusio.  There are several sites that are useful interpreting Latin in old records:

https://www.familysearch.org/ wiki/en/Latin_Genealogical_ Word_List

Finály Henrik: A latin nyelv szótára

http://www.math.ubc.ca/~cass/ frivs/latin/latin-dict-full. html

http://archives.nd.edu/ latgramm.htm

[Dr. Q]

I received a Christmas card with the following greeting:

Vianoce krasné
Pokojné prežitie
vianočných sviatkov,
veľa šťastia,
zdravia
a mnoho úspechov
v novom roku praje

I understand the meaning as generally:
Christmas beauty (or Merry Christmas but looking at the card content I think Christmas beauty is the intent)
Peaceful ?
Christmas Holidays
good luck
health
and a successful new year


"Pokojné prežitie vianočných sviatkov" appears in many Slovak Christmas cards; however, I don't know what "prežitie" means in the phrase.

Thank you.

Dr. "Q"

[Helen Fedor]

A beautiful Christmas

A peaceful experiencing

of the Christmas holidays,

much happiness,

health

and many successes

in the new year are wished for you by

Happy New Year (almost) to all the Slovak Spotters!

Helen

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From: 'Dr. Q' via Slovak Spot <slova...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 8:14 PM
To: 'Dr. Q' via Slovak Spot
Subject: [Slovak Spot] Christmas Card Translation

 

[Dr. Q]

So "prežitie / prežit" in this context means "to experience"!

Ďakujem Vám a Šťastlivy Nový Rok.

Dr. "Q"

[Helen Fedor]

Prežit' can also mean 'to survive'.  [Insert family joke here.]

H

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From: 'Dr. Q' via Slovak Spot <slova...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Tuesday, January 1, 2019 1:38 AM
To: slova...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Slovak Spot] Christmas Card Translation

 

[Ben Gmail]

Hello, all!

It certainly does depend on context. In this context, it is akin to “experience,” though any attempt to translate just one word in context is all but futile. Helen’s translation is great and perhaps the closest anyone can come while remaining true to the words. We would really speak of the “Christmas Season” rather than speak of a “Christmas Experience.” 

I hope you all had a wonderful holiday season!

Ben 

Sent from my iPhone

[Helen Fedor]

I tried to make the translation as literal as possible, for grammatically illuminating purposes.  You're certainly right about a smoother translation.

H

[Ben Sorensen]

Absolutely, Helen! And... you did it masterfully!

Ben

ut 1. 1. 2019 o 21:23 Helen Fedor <helen...@hotmail.com> napísal(a):

[Helen Fedor]

Thanks, Ben.