losing hanging indents for turnover lines with RTF Tabs output

[Shana Milkie]

Dear Fellow Sky Users,

Without realizing it, I've always used "styles" to output the RTF file from Sky (using the "RTF" preset under Document Options: Output Format/Markup Tags dialog box). As part of the work I'm doing to help develop the new ASI training course, I'm trying to figure out how to export RTF files using tabs (the "RTF Tabs" preset under Document Options: Output Format/Markup Tags dialog box). I'm using the default indention settings in the Index Options: Heading Style dialog box.

When I export the RTF file from Sky 7 and open it up in Microsoft Word, the subentry tabs are there. However, the turnover lines from main headings and subheadings have zero indention. I can fix this by changing the formatting under "Modify Styles" in Word. However, shouldn't the turnover indention (hanging indent) carry through from Sky?

Has anyone run across this or have suggestions on how to fix it?

Thanks - Shana Milkie

[Jochen Fassbender]

Hello Shana,

According to the manual v7 (pp.157, 158) and v8 (p.183):

"RTF Tabs – Provides a minimal set of RTF commands [that] will generate an index that does not use paragraph styles for indenting."

So if you select RTF Tabs, it's fair to assume that the turnover measurement under Index Options > Heading Style no longer applies. Unless I've overlooked an option where you can specify e.g. 1.5 tabs for turnover lines if your sub1s are 1 tab. But I don't think so.

Jochen

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[mjhw...@gmail.com]

Jochen is absolutely correct. Choosing RTF Tabs switches off the indention  options. There is no "fix" because this is intended. Go to Options > Index > Heading Style and you will see that the Indention options have all been greyed out and cannot be altered; in fact any greyed-out options displayed are not applied. As you note, subs have in fact been assigned their own style tag, so the style can be edited in Word if necessary using the Modify Style dialogue.

This option is provided simply because some clients used to demand it before the widespread use of layout software -- some may still; I wouldn't recommend using it unless the client insists.

Michael

[Jochen Fassbender]

Maybe of interest to all -- I've just replied to Shana directly because she also pointed out that a tab-indented output including hanging indents is possible in Cindex:

In the RTF Tabs output of SKY you just would have to specify a tab in Word's Modify Style dialogue to get the same result as with Cindex; otherwise there won't be any hanging indent.

And yes, Michael, I agree that the tab indentation can be regarded as being outdated.

Jochen

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[Shana Milkie]

Thank you for your explanations, Jochen and Michael. Two of the members of the committee developing the new course *do* use tabs as their main output format. Therefore, I think the course needs to show students how to use both styles and tabs.

Incidentally, in case anyone else needs to do this in Sky, there is one wrinkle I wanted to point out. For main entry turnover lines, you just need to add a hanging indent. For subentry turnover lines, there is an additional step that I explain below.

1. Choose "RTF Tabs" in the Document Options: Output Format/Markup Tags dialog box. This gives you an RTF file with tabs for the subheading indents. As we've been discussing, there are no hanging indents for turnover lines in the exported RTF file.

2. Within Microsoft Word, in the "Modify Styles" dialog box, click the "Format" box at the bottom left of the box, and click on "Paragraph."  In the "Indentation" section in the middle of the Paragraph dialog box, under "Special," choose "Hanging."  The "By" box will show the amount of the hanging indent, which you can adjust if desired. This will create the hanging indent for turnover lines in MAIN entries.

3. For SUBENTRIES, an additional step is needed to create the hanging indent. If you just do the above, the whole subentry level (first line of the subentry plus any turnover lines) moves to the right. So, you have to create a tab stop setting *first*. In the "Format" box at the bottom left of the "Modify Styles" dialog box, click on "Tabs." The cursor should be in the "Tab stop position" box. Enter the amount that you want for the general subentry indents (remember, this is not the hanging indent for turnover lines). Then click "Set" and "OK." Now go back and create a hanging indent as in step 2 above.

Many thanks to my fellow committee member who is a Word whiz and helped me figure this out!

- Shana Milkie

[Jochen Fassbender]

Apologies for my ignorance that there are some who obviously do use tabs output.

And yes, it's useful to know about this option just in case.

Jochen

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[Shana Milkie]

No need to apologize - I think it was helpful to have this discussion and that we all learned something.

And actually, I think I need to apologize - I just re-read your note that begins with "May be of interest to all . . " and realized that you had already explained to the group that we need to set the tab in Word *first* in order for the hanging indents to work!  My explanation was a little convoluted. :)

- Shana Milkie