SKY V8
Louisa Emmons
Judi Gibbs
Louisa, thank you. We need all these suggestions. I’d like to be able to use SKY 8. I’d like to have the new features in it.
~Judi
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Judi Gibbs
A more productive approach is to convince Kamm that he needs to take complaints of freeze-ups seriously as he develops SKY 9—which I gather is happening right now.
Kamm has not wanted to hear about the freeze-ups. BUT I happen to know that some highly experienced and very capable indexers went back to SKY 7 because of the problem.
The point isn’t to complain. The point is to resolve the issue and move ahead. Every new version of SKY has additional features that are very worthwhile—and we should be trying to take advantage of them.
~Judi
Marie S. Nuchols
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Millis Indexing
While I agree that software issues can be
tremendously
frustrating, I think it is unfair to Kamm to imply that he doesn’t
take reports
of issues or problems with Sky seriously. I have always found him
to be very
responsive and helpful with any issues directly related to Sky.
Several people
have already commented that Kamm has offered suggestions to try to
address the
individual issues they are having, but he cannot diagnosis and fix
potential
issues on every individual setup. If a pattern can be established
among the instances
of a particular problem, then it may be possible for Kamm, or
someone else, to
determine how to address it.
Although the term “freeze-up” has been used repeatedly, I have not yet seen a full description of what the problem actually looks like, or what steps were taken to try to correct it. When I occasionally run into a problem or get an error message while using Sky, closing it and reopening it resolves the issue. In Sky 8, there is now a dialogue box that appears if Sky closes unexpectedly, asking you to indicate whether your index is okay. Honestly, I’m not sure what happens if you click that it’s not, because I’ve never lost any work in these instances. I simply click the button indicating everything’s fine, and continue with my work.
I have had my share of technology-related issues in the past, and I empathize with anyone having trouble getting their indexing software up and running smoothly. I certainly don’t mean to minimize those frustrations. Any problems with installing and using Sky should absolutely be reported to Kamm, both so he knows about them and so he can help address them if possible. I have seen several instances over the years of Sky updates that improved functionality based on specific feedback from users. Although individual experiences vary, I think it’s important that newer members of this discussion group know that there are happy Sky 8 users who do not experience regular problems, either with the program or the support provided.
- Kendra
-- Kendra H. Millis President, American Society for Indexing, 2017-2018 Theodore C. Hines Award recipient, 2020 Millis Indexing Services MillisIndexing.com www.MaineFiberWorkshop.com
Judi Gibbs
>>Although the term “freeze-up” has been used repeatedly, I have not yet seen a full description of what the problem actually looks like, or what steps were taken to try to correct it.
Freeze-up is when the program just freezes. It won’t do anything.
Kamm had to “unfreeze” it for me—both times—so he saw what it looked like. The same thing happened to a colleague--twice. Kamm also had to unfreeze it for her—both times.
>>When I occasionally run into a problem or get an error message while using Sky, closing it and reopening it resolves the issue.
I always try that. It’s been a while, but as I recall, I couldn’t even get it to shut down.
>>In Sky 8, there is now a dialogue box that appears if Sky closes unexpectedly, asking you to indicate whether your index is okay.
It wasn’t there when I last used SKY 8—but I haven’t used it since the last freeze-up. I’ve been afraid of losing work.
>>Although individual experiences vary, I think it’s important that newer members of this discussion group know that there are happy Sky 8 users who do not experience regular problems, either with the program or the support provided.
I AGREE.
>>I have seen several instances over the years of Sky updates that improved functionality based on specific feedback from users.
I agree that Kamm has used feedback to improve the package.
I was one of the first to buy SKY.
In 1998, I was taking an indexing class from Kari Kells here in Seattle. That year the ASI conference was in Seattle. Kari told all of her students to go down to the conference and look around the areas that didn’t require attendee registration. I did that.
Kamm showed up at that conference with SKY. I learned only later that was his first appearance—his first attempt to market the product.
I told vendors from all of the “big 3” that I was only a beginning student, and I wasn’t about to buy software right then. Despite my comments, Kamm gave me a dog and pony show—and then offered it to me for a discounted price—if I bought the package that day—or at that conference.
Julie Kawabata knew me—and saw it happening. She had looked at it and thought it looked like a good package. She told me if I thought I’d ever do any indexing, I should take it for that price. I took it—and I’ve never looked back.
I loved SKY 5, 6, and 7. I was clearly one of Kamm’s earliest customers—and one of his early promoters. I told everybody what a great package it was—and I praised his tech support.
I felt that way until SKY 8 came out. I was frustrated and scared by my early experiences—as was my highly experienced colleague. In the years since SKY 8 first appeared, I’ve heard comments like those from Pam Sanchez that seem to mirror my early experiences with the package—so I don’t think that my experiences reflected early problems that were ironed out over time.
I also believe Kamm is frustrated with my frustration—and I regret that. Until SKY 8 came out, I had a wonderful working relationship with Kamm—wonderful communication—and I’d like to have that again.
On another note, I’ll add that I was one of Margaret Berson’s first customers. She developed her macros for Cher Paul. I saw Cher using them—and asked Margaret if I could buy them. I then promoted the macros to create a market that would make it worthwhile for Margaret to maintain and support her macros.
In short, I’ve promoted SKY 5, 6, and 7, and Margaret’s macros—and I’ve always been glad that I made those decisions.
~Judi
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sese...@gmail.com
Folks don't like to play much with bread-and-butter software that's used for the daily porridge, but are there plans to solicit beta testers for V9, pre-release?
Cheers...
|
J.
Pam Sanchez
H, since I am the one that first started this string, I will attempt to address some of your questions. When I say that SKY 8 ‘freezes’ my computer, I mean just that. I have had to walk away from the computer for over an hour hoping that it would ‘reset’ itself (the message I get is SKY 8 is not responding. The only way I have found to ‘solve this issue is to shut down the program and then reopen it. Once I have done this I immediately get a popup window that says something to the effect of “SKY 8 was improperly closed; some of your data may be lost and you are given the option to say ‘everything is good’ and all data has not been lost. When I choose this option, I find that some of my entries have been lost, I have then have to go back and figure out what I lost, and re-enter it. I had, on several occasions, tried to get Kamm’s help with this, and he finally responded that it is not his job to trouble shoot what is happening on my computer, and that I should join this ‘chat’ group to gain assistance with my particular issues. He then gave me a link to use to ‘ask to join’ and when I clicked on his link, I got an email basically that I was refused access to the ‘help chat’. I was in the midst of working on my Module C for certification, and was VERY frustrated with him. I even downloaded his ‘SKY manual’ looking for answers to my questions. Now, recently in doing some other research for Module D, I discovered the link to be able to be part of this chat. I can’t explain what is going on with Kamm, I think he is very much aware of this ‘glitch’ in his SKY 8 program, and simply refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem… With what little experience I have had with SKY, I think it is a great program. I look forward to learning more of the ‘perks’ of the program, but I do not look forward to losing my work, so I am seriously considering uninstalling SKY 8 and putting SKY 7 on my computer. I think Kamm was very kind in helping me with my issues, he even asked me to send him the particular files that I was working with to see if he couldn’t solve my problems. In the end, I think we both became so frustrated that he gave up. I certainly hope he can figure out what this issue is and fix it before he releases 9. The simple fact that this developer is willing to offer ‘free updates’ to the indexing community says a lot about his integrity. I was in the real estate industry for 23 years as an office administrator, and every time one of the real estate programs had an update, they wanted to charge you the full price to download that update.
Pam
From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Millis Indexing
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2022 4:05 PM
To: skyind...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [SKYIndexUsers] More productive approach
While I agree that software issues can be tremendously frustrating, I think it is unfair to Kamm to imply that he doesn’t take reports of issues or problems with Sky seriously. I have always found him to be very responsive and helpful with any issues directly related to Sky. Several people have already commented that Kamm has offered suggestions to try to address the individual issues they are having, but he cannot diagnosis and fix potential issues on every individual setup. If a pattern can be established among the instances of a particular problem, then it may be possible for Kamm, or someone else, to determine how to address it.
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sese...@gmail.com
J.
Judi Gibbs
I’m sure there will be pre-release/beta testing. There always is. BUT it may not catch all the bugs.
Beta testing this software is somewhat like clinical trials. Clinical trials often do not catch problems that are fairly uncommon. For example, a reaction that occurs in very few people. Which is why monitoring continues even after a drug is approved and released.
Even after software is released, monitoring needs to continue.
~Judi
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/skyindexusers/56473945-74e3-433f-9dbf-97aaa66c214cn%40googlegroups.com.
Pam Sanchez
For all of you, here are the email strings that I have had with Kamm over my ‘issues’ with SKY 8 working on my computer:
Good morning,
I purchased this product from you about 3 years ago. I struggled with the software as it didn’t seem able to ‘keep up with my typing’ and I would have to wait for the cell to fill…I thought it was because I didn’t have a fast enough drive…At the time I purchased the software, my computer had ‘all the requirements’ needed to handle the software. I recently installed a solid state drive on my computer hoping that would cure the problem. It has not. My computer guru thinks that I have a corrupted program, and I would like to ask you if it is possible for me to download the program again, and since my guru guy had a stroke recently, I will need to do the installation myself and would REALLY appreciate thorough instructions on how to get it back onto my computer.
Thank you
Pam Sánchez
Dear Pam,
It is unlikely in the extreme that your computer is so old that it won’t run SKY Index okay. If your computer is running Windows 7, 8 or 10, it is a safe bet that your computer will run SKY Index very well. Typing just should not be an issue – even on a very slow computer. Typing requires very little CPU. The AutoComplete feature requires SKY Index to lookup alphabetically matching terms in the AutoComplete list and that is much more likely where the problem is manifesting itself. You can turn off AutoComplete to test that theory. (Options>Data Entry>AutoComplete and then uncheck everything under “Headings to AutoComplete” and Save.
If that does not change your typing problem and if you have not booted in safe mode, please do so. That is the best tool we have to help us track down the problem.
Sincerely,
Kamm
SKY Software Sales
From: PKS Indexing, LLC [mailto:pks.in...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 11:49 AM
To: 'Sales, SKY Software'
Subject: RE: Page order index
Kamm
THANK YOU so much for your patience and assistance! I do have one more question for you: when we initially loaded the SKY program on my computer, I was told that my computer had met the criteria. Now, I am doubting that. It is an older desk top computer and I am thinking maybe I need to upgrade the processor? I have a brand new solid state drive, but my computer guru is thinking I might need to get a better processor
Thanks AGAIN for all your help!
For the Record, I am running Windows 10. Still had issues.
I can’t replicate this problem on my computer. Would you please reply with the index in question attached (the sk8 file) and tell me which entry you’re merging in error scan and I’ll see if I can replicate the problem.
Sincerely,
Kamm
SKY Software Sales
From: PKS Indexing, LLC [mailto:pks.in...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 3:56 PM
To: 'Sales, SKY Software'
Subject: Merge key on Error check
When I run the error check and it finds a widow/orphan, it tells me to click on the ‘merge key’ and the program would ‘fix’ the problem. When I do this, the program shuts down on me…
Dear Pam,
I’d like to address one problem at a time, please. Did running in safe mode solve your slow typing problem?
Sincerely,
Kamm
SKY Software Sales
From: PKS Indexing, LLC [mailto:pks.in...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 11:28 AM
To: 'Sales, SKY Software'
Subject: RE: Page order index
God morning Kamm
I did run SKY in the Safe Mode; when it was doing the error check, it suggested I click on “merge” to solve a problem with orphans (even though I already had it set to merge orphans) it shut down the program; then it reopened it and said it was shut down incorrectly. I don’t know if that is anything you need to know…
Thanks
Pam
Dear Pam,
SKY Index should have no problem keeping up with your typing – even with AutoComplete turned on.
Please confirm that:
- Choose Help>About and confirm that you’re using version: 8.0.13
- If you turn off AutoComplete for ALL fields, that SKY Index keeps up with your typing and that there is no delay.
- If there is a delay, please boot in safe mode and see if the delay exists in Safe Mode also.
Let me know the results, please.
Sincerely,
Kamm
SKY Software Support
From: PKS Indexing, LLC [mailto:pks.in...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 10:24 AM
To: 'Support, SKY Software'
Subject: RE: Page order index
Well, apparently I am a too fast typer. What I do now is I type part of the first word and then I have to wait a couple of seconds for it to auto fill….I realize that it is because the program has to search through a lot of words, so I am trying to be patient.
Thanks
Pam
After all of these emails, and no solutions really provided, I still have trouble with SKY8 filling the fields to keep up with my typing; I still have trouble with SKY freezing up on my computer and I still have to close ALL other programs running on my computer to try and ‘help this issue’. For my sanity, I pretty much run a backup after every few entries.
Thanks to you all
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/skyindexusers/065901d8bb22%24e0630ea0%24a1292be0%24%40writeguru.com.
Judi Gibbs
I’ve been swamped, and I’m just now getting to this message.
>The simple fact that this developer is willing to offer ‘free updates’ to the indexing community says a lot about his integrity.
I agree! And I’d like to start on this upbeat note.
WRT the freezing: I believe Pam has done a good job of describing it.
>>I can’t explain what is going on with Kamm, I think he is very much aware of this ‘glitch’ in his SKY 8 program, and simply refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem…
I believe Kamm put so much time into developing SKY 8 that it’s hard to accept that this glitch is there—even though a number of us have reported it.
I believe he also assumes that since not everyone is having the problem, it isn’t there.
>In the end, I think we both became so frustrated that he gave up.
I believe he doesn’t know what is causing the problem—and hence he doesn’t know how to fix it.
The thing that I find FRUSTRATING is that I understand he is no longer marketing SKY 7. From his website:
SKY Index™ (Professional Edition) v7.0 is the predecessor to the current v8.0 flagship program. The program is still available for those that have built their business around this program and are expanding their employee base.
I’m hoping he will still sell SKY 7 to new indexers. I believe he should given that his “flagship program” has this glitch.
~Judi
From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Pam Sanchez
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2022 9:34 AM
To: 'Millis Indexing' <khmi...@gmail.com>; skyind...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [SKYIndexUsers] More productive approach
H, since I am the one that first started this string, I will attempt to address some of your questions. When I say that SKY 8 ‘freezes’ my computer, I mean just that. I have had to walk away from the computer for over an hour hoping that it would ‘reset’ itself (the message I get is SKY 8 is not responding. The only way I have found to ‘solve this issue is to shut down the program and then reopen it. Once I have done this I immediately get a popup window that says something to the effect of “SKY 8 was improperly closed; some of your data may be lost and you are given the option to say ‘everything is good’ and all data has not been lost. When I choose this option, I find that some of my entries have been lost, I have then have to go back and figure out what I lost, and re-enter it. I had, on several occasions, tried to get Kamm’s help with this, and he finally responded that it is not his job to trouble shoot what is happening on my computer, and that I should join this ‘chat’ group to gain assistance with my particular issues. He then gave me a link to use to ‘ask to join’ and when I clicked on his link, I got an email basically that I was refused access to the ‘help chat’. I was in the midst of working on my Module C for certification, and was VERY frustrated with him. I even downloaded his ‘SKY manual’ looking for answers to my questions. Now, recently in doing some other research for Module D, I discovered the link to be able to be part of this chat.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/skyindexusers/002b01d8ba32%24c0bb9680%244232c380%24%40gmail.com.
Judi Gibbs
I bought SKY 8 the day it came out, and I used it on the next index. I had the problems Pam described, and Kamm had to “unfreeze” it for me.
I then used SKY 8 on another index—one that required Tlingit diacritics. I thought I’d try the copy and paste of diacritics. It didn’t work that well with Tlingit—and the program again froze up—the night before I had to submit it. I was glad that Kamm was on east coast time cuz the next morning I had to get him to unfreeze it so I could submit it—on west coast time.
I then heard from a colleague—a highly experienced one—who had had the same problem with two indexes. Kamm had also had to unfreeze both of hers—and she was going back to SKY 7.
From time to time I think that I should try SKY 8 again—since I know Kamm does ongoing tweaking of the programs. Then this list hears from someone reporting the problem—as Pam just has—and I say no, not now.
When I first had the problems, Kamm offered me my money back—so I could just go on using SKY 7. I told him no. As a professional, I feel it is important to support research into the software that we use for our work. I felt that purchase was supporting Kamm’s research—even if I didn’t like the results.
When SKY 9 comes out, I will try it—although I’ll try it when I don’t have indexes rolling in back to back.
I say all this as someone who bought SKY the day it first came on the market—or when it first appeared at an ASI conference—and who uses it to this day.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/skyindexusers/008f01d8bbb5%248cd84cd0%24a688e670%24%40gmail.com.