What to do with sk.*
Jeremy
and one for Saskatchewan, both using the sk.* namespace.
I suppose this may have never come up before, given that most systems
won't have users in both places, but it's now come up for me.
On the one hand, 'sk' is the country code for Solvakia, so technically,
they ought to get it, and Saskatchewan shouldn't. On the other hand,
it looks like the Saskatchewanian (?) version has 10x more traffic.
Or, maybe the Canadians and the Slovaks are happily co-existing in the
same space, thank you very much, and I should just shut up and leave
both group lists on my servers.
Thoughts, anyone? I am blisfully unaware of any history in either version
of this hierarchy, so any input would be welcome.
--
Jeremy | jer...@exit109.com
uh...@fantomas.sk
-> It seems as though there are two sk.* hierarchies, one for Slovakia,
-> and one for Saskatchewan, both using the sk.* namespace.
yea that's true.
-> I suppose this may have never come up before, given that most systems
-> won't have users in both places, but it's now come up for me.
-> On the one hand, 'sk' is the country code for Solvakia, so technically,
-> they ought to get it, and Saskatchewan shouldn't. On the other hand,
-> it looks like the Saskatchewanian (?) version has 10x more traffic.
-> Or, maybe the Canadians and the Slovaks are happily co-existing in the
-> same space, thank you very much, and I should just shut up and leave
-> both group lists on my servers.
Well, I find sometimes a problem when group created in Slovakia gets used by
saskatchewan ppl.
-> Thoughts, anyone? I am blisfully unaware of any history in either version
-> of this hierarchy, so any input would be welcome.
the problem started when both group become world-wide. Bad they didn't stay
really local. I don't know why some admins want to maintain all
hierarchies...
--
Matus "fantomas" Uhlar, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I don't wish to receive spam to this address.
Varovanie: Nezelam si na tuto adresu dostavat akukolvek reklamnu postu.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
Andrew - Supernews
> the problem started when both group become world-wide. Bad they didn't stay
> really local. I don't know why some admins want to maintain all
> hierarchies...
in our case it's very simple: we have users all over the world, and even
our ISP customers cover a very large geographical area.
--
Andrew, Supernews
http://www.supernews.com - individual and corporate NNTP services
Jeremy
> the problem started when both group become world-wide. Bad they didn't stay
> really local. I don't know why some admins want to maintain all
> hierarchies...
Well, I don't want to exclude people either from Slovakia or Saskatchewan
from using my server. :) This whole thing came up because we (Supernews)
obtained a bunch of users in Saskatchewan. I'm not aware of any ISP
customers we have in Slovakia, but the service is certainly available
there, to individuals as well as ISPs. So I would like to have both
sets of groups available.
How much of a problem is it? Is it something you're happy to just live
with? Or do you want to try changing one set of groups or the other to
a different namespace? I don't read either set of groups, so I don't
favor one position over the other, I just want to do whatever is best
for the users.
--
Jeremy | jer...@exit109.com
uh...@fantomas.sk
->> really local. I don't know why some admins want to maintain all
->> hierarchies...
-> How much of a problem is it? Is it something you're happy to just live
-> with? Or do you want to try changing one set of groups or the other to
-> a different namespace? I don't read either set of groups, so I don't
-> favor one position over the other, I just want to do whatever is best
-> for the users.
The only problem is users don't know which group belongs to which set... if
they read newsgroups descriptions, it would be better, but onli Outlook
express shows them on windows, and no specialized newsreader (damn them!)
--
Matus "fantomas" Uhlar, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I don't wish to receive spam to this address.
Varovanie: Nezelam si na tuto adresu dostavat akukolvek reklamnu postu.
I don't have lysdexia. The Dog wouldn't allow that.
Thomas Rachel
> The only problem is users don't know which group belongs to which
> set... if they read newsgroups descriptions, it would be better,
> but onli Outlook express shows them on windows, and no specialized
> newsreader (damn them!)
That's not the only problem. Neither of the hierarchies can issue a
checkgroups (or both together...)
Thoma$
Roman Svihorik
>
> How much of a problem is it? Is it something you're happy to just live
> with? Or do you want to try changing one set of groups or the other to
> a different namespace? I don't read either set of groups, so I don't
> favor one position over the other, I just want to do whatever is best
> for the users.
According to me - just let it be. The both sets could co-exist together.
Roman
**************************************************************************
Roman SVIHORIK
Mikoviniho 10
949 11 NITRA
SLOVAK REPUBLIC e-mail: gem...@ba.telecom.sk
Wolfgang Schelongowski
Jeremy <jer...@exit109.com> writes:
[is sk.* for Slovakia or Saskatchewan]
>How much of a problem is it? Is it something you're happy to just live
>with? Or do you want to try changing one set of groups or the other to
>a different namespace? I don't read either set of groups, so I don't
>favor one position over the other, I just want to do whatever is best
>for the users.
IIRC the precedences are age beats nation, e.g.
ca.* (California) vs. can.* Canada
cl.* (CL-Netz) vs. Chile.* Chile
The last line is extremely amusing because by creating cl.*
the creators joined the ranks of those they call merciless exploiters of
third world countries ;-)
As for a new name, watch out, there's already
slo. San Luis Obispo, California, USA
--
"Some people are heroes. And some people jot down notes."
-- Terry Pratchett, The Truth
Jim Riley
>It seems as though there are two sk.* hierarchies, one for Slovakia,
>and one for Saskatchewan, both using the sk.* namespace.
How about if the Saskatchewan groups use English names, and the
Slovakian groups use Slovak names? Then create sk.regina+bratislava
to confuse people. Do any groups other than sk.forsale have
significant traffic?
--
Jim Riley
uh...@fantomas.sk
-> On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:49:19 -0000, Jeremy <jer...@exit109.com> wrote:
->>It seems as though there are two sk.* hierarchies, one for Slovakia,
->>and one for Saskatchewan, both using the sk.* namespace.
-> How about if the Saskatchewan groups use English names, and the
-> Slovakian groups use Slovak names? Then create sk.regina+bratislava
-> to confuse people. Do any groups other than sk.forsale have
-> significant traffic?
good idea, the question will be what to do with already existing Slovak
newsgroups with english names.
--
Matus "fantomas" Uhlar, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I don't wish to receive spam to this address.
Varovanie: Nezelam si na tuto adresu dostavat akukolvek reklamnu postu.
(R)etry, (A)bort, (C)ancer
Roman Svihorik
> good idea, the question will be what to do with already existing Slovak
> newsgroups with english names.
As I have told you - just let it be.
Henrietta K. Thomas
wrote, in news.admin.hierarchies:
>In sk.net.news Jim Riley <jim...@pipeline.com> wrote:
>-> On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:49:19 -0000, Jeremy <jer...@exit109.com> wrote:
>
>->>It seems as though there are two sk.* hierarchies, one for Slovakia,
>->>and one for Saskatchewan, both using the sk.* namespace.
>
>-> How about if the Saskatchewan groups use English names, and the
>-> Slovakian groups use Slovak names? Then create sk.regina+bratislava
>-> to confuse people. Do any groups other than sk.forsale have
>-> significant traffic?
>
>good idea, the question will be what to do with already existing Slovak
>newsgroups with english names.
Good question. I just took a look at sk.* on
Earthlink's server, and found 13 articles in
sk.sci.astro, which I expected to all be in the
English language. Surprise! There're in some
foreign language I do not understand. The
only English language posts in there were spam.
To answer Jim Riley's question about traffic
first.: I sampled for 50 articles and scored
in sk.forsale, sk.jobs, sk.jobs.offered, and
sk.politics. Looks to me like most of the
groups listed there are Canadian groups,
but based on my experience with sci.astro,
I really can't be sure. So the first thing
we need is a list of the groups for each of
these hierarchies.
If Walter is right that Saskachewan had sk.*
first, then the Slovaks might consider renaming
their hierarchy sr.* (for Slovak Republic), which
no one appears to be using right now. Then,
they'd probably have to rename some of their
groups as well. That would be up to them.
Strongly suggest that Andrew or Jeremy post
to sk.talk.users. There are some Canadians
there who're wondering why their newsgroups
are suddenly disappearing......
Henrietta K. Thomas
Chicago, Illinois
hk...@earthlink.net
--
Want to know more about the us.* hierarchy?
Visit our temporary website at
<http://www.panix.com/~kingdon/usenet-us.html>
Rob Maxwell
"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n6qo6u4t60c94tu9m...@4ax.com...
>
> If Walter is right that Saskachewan had sk.*
> first, then the Slovaks might consider renaming
> their hierarchy sr.* (for Slovak Republic), which
> no one appears to be using right now.
No good, sr is the country code for Suriname, hence we simply set ourselves
for revisiting this if/when Suriname wants a hierarchy named sr.* to match
the country code.
Perhaps skr.* instead. It's not in ftp.isc.org's control.ctl file (although
only the SR's sk.* is listed, so, one checkgroups and the Canadians are gone
from sk.*, but, that's not a realistic solution in North America [1]) nor is
skr.* in Lewis S. Eisen's "Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies, v5.51"
(which list both as sk.*).
Then,
> they'd probably have to rename some of their
> groups as well. That would be up to them.
>
> Strongly suggest that Andrew or Jeremy post
> to sk.talk.users. There are some Canadians
> there who're wondering why their newsgroups
> are suddenly disappearing......
[1] Actually a checkgroups from Uhlar with a "Do not use in North America."
warning in the headers might be the solution in Europe.
--
Rob Maxwell
Administrator
bc and van hierarchies
Henrietta K. Thomas
wrote, in news.admin.hierarchies:
>
>"Henrietta K. Thomas" <hk...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:n6qo6u4t60c94tu9m...@4ax.com...
>
>>
>> If Walter is right that Saskachewan had sk.*
>> first, then the Slovaks might consider renaming
>> their hierarchy sr.* (for Slovak Republic), which
>> no one appears to be using right now.
>
>No good, sr is the country code for Suriname, hence we simply set ourselves
>for revisiting this if/when Suriname wants a hierarchy named sr.* to match
>the country code.
OK, scratch that.
>Perhaps skr.* instead. It's not in ftp.isc.org's control.ctl file (although
>only the SR's sk.* is listed, so, one checkgroups and the Canadians are gone
>from sk.*, but, that's not a realistic solution in North America [1]) nor is
>skr.* in Lewis S. Eisen's "Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies, v5.51"
>(which list both as sk.*).
Hmmm. (puts on thinking cap)
[snip]
>[1] Actually a checkgroups from Uhlar with a "Do not
>use in North America." warning in the headers might
>be the solution in Europe.
Especially since control.ctl already has him listed
as the control person for the sk.* hierarchy.
OK, I'll go along with that. Now, what can be done
about the Canadian sk.* groups? Could they name
a control person and issue checkgroups for sk.*
in North America? I think that would result in the
same situation we have now -- both hierarchies
in the same space on news servers that want to
carry both hierarchies. There has to be some kind
of distinction between the two, but I can't think of
any way to say 'Saskatchewan', can you?
Henrietta
uh...@fantomas.sk
->>good idea, the question will be what to do with already existing Slovak
->>newsgroups with english names.
-> Good question. I just took a look at sk.* on Earthlink's server, and
-> found 13 articles in sk.sci.astro, which I expected to all be in the
-> English language. Surprise! There're in some foreign language I do not
-> understand. The only English language posts in there were spam.
:) that's astronomical discussion. Non-spam traffic is slovan and/or english
- astronomers talk english quite often too :)
-> To answer Jim Riley's question about traffic
-> first.: I sampled for 50 articles and scored
-> in sk.forsale, sk.jobs, sk.jobs.offered, and
sk.jobs.offered and sk.jobs.wanted were created in slovakia. THay were in
short time filled up with spam and no real traffic, so I dropped them. So
they should not appear anywhere... saskatchewan had sk.jobs
-> Strongly suggest that Andrew or Jeremy post
-> to sk.talk.users. There are some Canadians
-> there who're wondering why their newsgroups
-> are suddenly disappearing......
sk.talk.users was created in Slovakia. If I knew i will get that many
problems I'd probably start talking about other hierarchy in slovakia.
Anyway we started with a few groups on a few servers, than some ppl from
outside *.sk asked for them... then they all got feeded anywhere...
--
Matus "fantomas" Uhlar, uh...@fantomas.sk ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I don't wish to receive spam to this address.
Varovanie: Nezelam si na tuto adresu dostavat akukolvek reklamnu postu.
Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way.
Cord Beermann
>> If Walter is right that Saskachewan had sk.*
>> first, then the Slovaks might consider renaming
>> their hierarchy sr.* (for Slovak Republic), which
>> no one appears to be using right now.
>No good, sr is the country code for Suriname, hence we simply set ourselves
>for revisiting this if/when Suriname wants a hierarchy named sr.* to match
>the country code.
>Perhaps skr.* instead. It's not in ftp.isc.org's control.ctl file (although
>only the SR's sk.* is listed, so, one checkgroups and the Canadians are gone
>from sk.*, but, that's not a realistic solution in North America [1]) nor is
>skr.* in Lewis S. Eisen's "Master List of Newsgroup Hierarchies, v5.51"
>(which list both as sk.*).
the official three-letter-code for Slovakia is svk. But why not
suggest slovakia.* or the name the slovakians(?) call their country in
their mother tongue? (all only if they decide to move ;-)
Cord
Henrietta K. Thomas
wrote, in news.admin.hierarchies:
>In sk.net.news Henrietta K. Thomas <hk...@earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
>-> To answer Jim Riley's question about traffic
>-> first.: I sampled for 50 articles and scored
>-> in sk.forsale, sk.jobs, sk.jobs.offered, and
>
>sk.jobs.offered and sk.jobs.wanted were created in
>slovakia. THay were in short time filled up with spam
>and no real traffic, so I dropped them. So they should
>not appear anywhere... saskatchewan had sk.jobs
Well, IIRC, all the sk.jobs.* groups were filled
with ads for jobs in Saskatchewan.
>-> Strongly suggest that Andrew or Jeremy post
>-> to sk.talk.users. There are some Canadians
>-> there who're wondering why their newsgroups
>-> are suddenly disappearing......
>
>sk.talk.users was created in Slovakia. If I knew i will
>get that many problems I'd probably start talking about
>other hierarchy in slovakia.
You might end up doing something like that,
anyway. But let's wait and see what Jeremy
and Andrew say.
>Anyway we started with a few groups on a few servers,
>than some ppl from outside *.sk asked for them... then
>they all got feeded anywhere...
I don't know how to do it, but there *is* a way the
Slovak admins can keep the Slovak hierarchy
in Slovakia and prevent it from going outside.
You might want to ask Jeremy or Andrew about
this.
I do hope they can get it straightened out.
Henrietta