SIOC powered radio station

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Melvin Carvalho

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Apr 7, 2015, 8:43:59 AM4/7/15
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I'm writing an instant message system based on SIOC

The system can operate as a public room, multi user chat, one on one chat, or single person room (like a journal)

It updates in realtime and can have streams of content inserted via linked data.

I thought it might be nice to have a radio station (or tv station, or slideshow etc.)

My thought was to use SIOCT : Playlist for this.

Each chat room would have a knowledge base, containing a playlist, then a pointer to where the user was in that list.  It could be audmented by hand, by a recommender agent, search, or via social signals.

Would SIOC be a good match?

Anyone have some guidelines for modeling this?

Breslin, John

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Apr 8, 2015, 4:52:16 AM4/8/15
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Hi Melvin

This sounds very interesting (as a radio head and SIOC guy!).

Can you explain the use case a bit more? Is the chat channel to parallel a radio programme that is airing live? Would a bot display info on what is currently playing?

See also:



Thanks!

John

Melvin Carvalho

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Apr 8, 2015, 8:16:25 AM4/8/15
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On 8 April 2015 at 10:52, Breslin, John <john.b...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
Hi Melvin

This sounds very interesting (as a radio head and SIOC guy!).

Can you explain the use case a bit more? Is the chat channel to parallel a radio programme that is airing live? Would a bot display info on what is currently playing?

I'm writing up a documentation on this, which I'll share when it's fleshed out a bit more, some background:

https://linkeddata.github.io/SoLiD/

What I am doing is having a view on a Sioc : Space using a client side javascript app. 

The space contains Sioc : Posts / Instant Messages. 

Via a websocket you get the latest post, or can create a new post in that (LDP) container for others to see.

However there's a recent trend to add multi media to chat.  Right now I expand images, but I'd like to add audio and video.

I'd like highlight something Linked Data can add, that most other systems would find a challenge.  One aspect is the open ended nature of the data.  Every Space can become a "data wiki".  That is to say, have an arbitrary number of quads associated with a conversation. 

So I wonders to myself, "what would make a good demo?".  And I came up with the idea of a play list of songs where the client, instead of just displaying instant messages, one by one, will cycle through the play list and display the items to either yourself (as a personal library) or to more than one person. 

You could also imagine a situation where people with a common interest come together and chat about at topic, then the software will add multi media to augment your experience.  So, rather than chatting about a live show, the show is generated in realtime by the participants and software.

Hope that's making some sense!
Thanks!  This is really helpful, I think that's enough to get me started.
 

Thanks!

John

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Benjamin Goering

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Apr 10, 2015, 10:24:51 AM4/10/15
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If you find yourself serializing HTML/JSON representing these 'OrderedList' ontological Things, I encourage you to try to use an AS OrderedCollection serialization: http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-activitystreams-vocabulary-20150129/#dfn-orderedcollection

Melvin Carvalho

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Apr 10, 2015, 11:15:32 AM4/10/15
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On 10 April 2015 at 00:46, Benjamin Goering <b...@livefyre.com> wrote:
If you find yourself serializing HTML/JSON representing these 'OrderedList' ontological Things, I encourage you to try to use an AS OrderedCollection serialization: http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-activitystreams-vocabulary-20150129/#dfn-orderedcollection

Thanks for the pointer, I wasnt aware of this part of AS2.

I try whenever possible to follow web standards, in particular, RDF.

I was under the impression that RDF does not guarantee order?

So, looking at the example:

  "orderedItems": [
    {
      "@type": "Note",
      "displayName": "A Simple Note"
    },
    {
      "@type": "Note",
      "displayName": "Another Simple Note"
    }
  ]
 
This seems to be an out of band agreement of a certain order using JSON.  But if it wouldnt translate, to say, turtle or other RDF serializations, if I have understood correctly.

Would this not be potentially dangerous in a web scale environment, where one system assumes order and another does not?

Andreas Kuckartz

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Apr 10, 2015, 12:34:47 PM4/10/15
to sioc...@googlegroups.com, Melvin Carvalho


Am 10. April 2015 17:15:30 MESZ, schrieb Melvin Carvalho <melvinc...@gmail.com>:
>I try whenever possible to follow web standards, in particular, RDF.

Great to read that!

>I was under the impression that RDF does not guarantee order?
>
>So, looking at the example:
>
> "orderedItems": [
> {
> "@type": "Note",
> "displayName": "A Simple Note"
> },
> {
> "@type": "Note",
> "displayName": "Another Simple Note"
> }
> ]
>
>This seems to be an out of band agreement of a certain order using
>JSON.

No out of band information is required:

The JSON-LD context for this "orderedItem" property contains the line:
"@container": "@list"

Cheers,
Andreas

Melvin Carvalho

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Apr 10, 2015, 12:45:05 PM4/10/15
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Ah, got it thanks.

However, I dont think this maps to turtle very easily, are there lists i turtle?

Looking at:

http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON-LD_Data_Model I see:

Differences to the RDF data model

  1. Lists are part of the data model.

Are these the same, I wonder?

I like the idea or reusing, but am concerned about whether it may throw up future interop issues?
 

Cheers,
Andreas

Uldis Bojars

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Apr 12, 2015, 4:18:51 PM4/12/15
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Hi Melvin,


> I'm writing an instant message system based on SIOC

Sounds exciting! :)

The radio station idea also brings to mind the [more hardware-oriented] Radiodan project that Libby Miller is working on: http://planb.nicecupoftea.org/2015/01/03/raspberry-pi-podcast-in-a-box-step-by-step/

However, I dont think this maps to turtle very easily, are there lists i turtle?

Turtle has a shorthand for lists: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/turtle/primer/#example15
   - (or you could just use rdf:first + rdf:rest though that's much less convenient)

Uldis

Melvin Carvalho

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Apr 28, 2015, 5:01:01 AM4/28/15
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FYI: I've written up some draft docs on my SIOC powered instant message system.

http://webid.im/paper/

For those that prefer academic papers, click the top right, and the format changes into LNCS style.

Melvin Carvalho

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Jul 28, 2015, 6:59:51 AM7/28/15
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On 8 April 2015 at 10:52, Breslin, John <john.b...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
I'm about to integrate the playlist ontology into this web app (its a site about art):

http://inartes.com/

What works

- It's a 100% client side web app using the SoLiD framework [1]
- data is decentralized and stored on personal servers
- it is possible to bookmark verses via the query string
- currently it is oriented towards books with chapters and verses, but all playlists can be added
- It is possible to access control content so only, say, your family can see your vacation snaps
- I am experimenting with paid access control where the user will get an HTTP 402 payment required
- the 402 will kick off a workflow where a user can buy access from the owner
- currently it tries to guess the next chapter in the book (quite badly!)
- the first uploaded text in LD BIBO format is dante's inferno, I'd like to add more content tho
- free software under MIT license
- audio integration
- use of modern extensible frameworks with responsive design (angular, material design light)

What I would like to add

- playlist ontology
- ratings, annotations, illustrations, comments on texts
- workflow for uploading content
- workflow for rewarding participation
- intelligent guessing of next item
- suggest new items
- search engine
- drivers to existing content to turn into linked data
- and much more, i guess! :)

Bear in mind this site was put together start to finish in 1-2 days, so lots more work to do.  Just thought I'd give a quick preview ... will post again when playlists are working.

Melvin Carvalho

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Aug 22, 2016, 4:10:23 AM8/22/16
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On 8 April 2015 at 10:52, Breslin, John <john.b...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
The slideshow above gives an idea of the UI layout.

There's two styles

1. Just get everything in a directory (ordered by mtime) -- leverages the LDP vocab
2. Pull it items from a playlist URI

So the issue I have is that while in LDP container mode things are ordered quite well.  But in playlist mode the server alphabeticalizes the URIs and because they are youtube and I cant control that, it puts them out of order.

What I need to do is tweak it slightly either using a vocab or collection to get a definite ordering.

Im assuming using an RDF collection is possibly an anti pattern here?

 

Thanks!

John

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Paul Houle

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Aug 22, 2016, 10:38:33 AM8/22/16
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There is nothing wrong with RDF Collections other than,  maybe,  some holes in tooling here and there.  Those can be fixed.

Fear of ordered collections has been a big factor holding RDF back.  For instance,  there is a lot of good work in Dublin Core,  but the creators let us down by not specifying a mechanism to specify the order of dc:creator(s).  Some other standards such as XMP correct that,  but when outsiders see howlers like that in standards that,  it makes the RDF community look bad and in fact that is an outright threat to anyone who wants to make a living in the RDF community.

An alternate approach is to put a sequence number on data records,  much as would be used to specify an order on records stored in a relational table.  In some cases that works well because you can easily remember where you were in the list by keeping the sequence number,  so if your ability to keep persistent state is limited,  that would be the way to do it.


On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 4:10:23 AM UTC-4, melvincarvalho wrote:
On 8 April 2015 at 10:52, Breslin, John <john.b...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
Hi Melvin

This sounds very interesting (as a radio head and SIOC guy!).

Can you explain the use case a bit more? Is the chat channel to parallel a radio programme that is airing live? Would a bot display info on what is currently playing?

See also:



The slideshow above gives an idea of the UI layout.

There's two styles

1. Just get everything in a directory (ordered by mtime) -- leverages the LDP vocab
2. Pull it items from a playlist URI

So the issue I have is that while in LDP container mode things are ordered quite well.  But in playlist mode the server alphabeticalizes the URIs and because they are youtube and I cant control that, it puts them out of order.

What I need to do is tweak it slightly either using a vocab or collection to get a definite ordering.

Im assuming using an RDF collection is possibly an anti pattern here?

 

Thanks!

John

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Melvin Carvalho

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Aug 31, 2016, 5:05:18 AM8/31/16
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On 8 April 2015 at 10:52, Breslin, John <john.b...@nuigalway.ie> wrote:
Hi John

Are these ontologies still available as turtle?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but

http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#

Seems to give me a redirect even when I put in an accept header

 

Thanks!

John

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Breslin, John

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Aug 31, 2016, 5:22:26 AM8/31/16
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From: sioc...@googlegroups.com <sioc...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Melvin Carvalho <melvinc...@gmail.com>
Sent: 31 August 2016 10:05:16
To: sioc...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: SIOC powered radio station
 
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Bo Ferri

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Aug 31, 2016, 10:51:36 AM8/31/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 31/08/2016 11:05, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> Are these ontologies still available as turtle?

I haven't done any maintenance tasks on these hosting for ages. So it
could be the case that something got broken there. However, originally,
all these redirecting and content negotiation did work.

the Turtle/N3 of the Playback Ontology is available at
http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/playbackontology.n3 as well as at
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/smiy/playbackonto/master/rdf/playbackontology.n3

some for the Ordered List Ontology:
http://purl.org/ontology/olo/orderedlistontology.n3 +
https://github.com/smiy/orderedlistonto/blob/master/rdf/orderedlistontology.n3

Cheers,


Bo


PS: I did some testing and it looks like that the redirect dance for
text/turtle and application/rdf+xml still works ... ;)

PPS: a long term goal of mine is also to move all this hosting to github ...

Frederick Giasson

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Aug 31, 2016, 10:54:34 AM8/31/16
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Hi Bo,

The next issue you will encounter with your future tasks is the same I
did with BIBO: purl.org's logging page is down for at least a year, and
I don't have the feeling that Purl will get fixed anytime soon, if ever.

I am still wondering what should be done about it considering that these
ontologies are used at many places... for nearly a decade!

Thanks,

Fred

Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 1, 2016, 11:15:54 AM9/1/16
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On 31 August 2016 at 16:51, Bo Ferri <za...@smiy.org> wrote:
Hi Melvin,

On 31/08/2016 11:05, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
Are these ontologies still available as turtle?

I haven't done any maintenance tasks on these hosting for ages. So it could be the case that something got broken there. However, originally, all these redirecting and content negotiation did work.

the Turtle/N3 of the Playback Ontology is available at http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/playbackontology.n3 as well as at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/smiy/playbackonto/master/rdf/playbackontology.n3

some for the Ordered List Ontology: http://purl.org/ontology/olo/orderedlistontology.n3 + https://github.com/smiy/orderedlistonto/blob/master/rdf/orderedlistontology.n3

Ah I missed out the -L in the curl, that works, thanks!

 curl -H "Accept: text/turtle" -L http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core
 


Cheers,


Bo


PS: I did some testing and it looks like that the redirect dance for text/turtle and application/rdf+xml still works ... ;)

PPS: a long term goal of mine is also to move all this hosting to github ...
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Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 5, 2016, 4:05:05 PM9/5/16
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On 31 August 2016 at 16:51, Bo Ferri <za...@smiy.org> wrote:
Hi Melvin,

On 31/08/2016 11:05, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
Are these ontologies still available as turtle?

I haven't done any maintenance tasks on these hosting for ages. So it could be the case that something got broken there. However, originally, all these redirecting and content negotiation did work.

the Turtle/N3 of the Playback Ontology is available at http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/playbackontology.n3 as well as at https://raw.githubusercontent.com/smiy/playbackonto/master/rdf/playbackontology.n3

some for the Ordered List Ontology: http://purl.org/ontology/olo/orderedlistontology.n3 + https://github.com/smiy/orderedlistonto/blob/master/rdf/orderedlistontology.n3

Cheers,


Well it's starting to work.

My playlist.ttl file looks like this:

<#this> a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#Playlist> ;
<http://purl.org/dc/terms/title> "Best of Battlestar Galactica" ;
    <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_slot> :1, :2, :3, :4 .

<#1> a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#PlaylistSlot> ;
   <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_item> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwLZke5KeOs> ;
 <http://purl.org/dc/terms/title> "Adama vs Cain" ;
  <http://purl.org/ontology/olo/core#index> 1 .

<#2> a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#PlaylistSlot> ;
   <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_item> <https://www.youtube.com/embed/PXh9XaFJzvw> ;
  <http://purl.org/dc/terms/title> "Battlestar Galactica EPIC Battle Montage" ;
  <http://purl.org/ontology/olo/core#index> 2 .

<#3> a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#PlaylistSlot> ;
   <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_item> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toc-TdUu7mg> ;
  <http://purl.org/dc/terms/title>  "Battle of New Caprica: Space Battle" ;
  <http://purl.org/ontology/olo/core#index> 3 .

<#4> a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#PlaylistSlot> ;
   <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_item> <http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/fb2103c088521f3a47ebf88670341e49.jpg> ;
<http://purl.org/dc/terms/title> "Cast and Crew" ;
  <http://purl.org/ontology/olo/core#index> 4 .

Does that look OK?

Now here's the smart bit:

This linked data renders right there in the browser, using some solid magic:

https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#2

You can click the forward and backward arrows to go through different items.

Dont like the UI?  Well you can add your own and the browser will pull that in instead :)
 


Bo


PS: I did some testing and it looks like that the redirect dance for text/turtle and application/rdf+xml still works ... ;)

PPS: a long term goal of mine is also to move all this hosting to github ...
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Bo Ferri

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Sep 6, 2016, 1:32:28 PM9/6/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 05/09/2016 22:05, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> Does that look OK?
>

Yes, for sure [1] delivers:

@prefix dc: <http://purl.org/dc/terms/> .
@prefix ns0: <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#> .
@prefix ns1: <http://purl.org/ontology/olo/core#> .

<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#this>
a <http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#Playlist> ;
dc:title "Best of Battlestar Galactica" ;
ns0:playlist_slot <https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#1>,
<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#2>,
<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#3>,
<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#4> .

<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#1>
a ns0:PlaylistSlot ;
ns0:playlist_item <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwLZke5KeOs> ;
dc:title "Adama vs Cain" ;
ns1:index 1 .

<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#2>
a ns0:PlaylistSlot ;
ns0:playlist_item <https://www.youtube.com/embed/PXh9XaFJzvw> ;
dc:title "Battlestar Galactica EPIC Battle Montage" ;
ns1:index 2 .

<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#3>
a ns0:PlaylistSlot ;
ns0:playlist_item <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toc-TdUu7mg> ;
dc:title "Battle of New Caprica: Space Battle" ;
ns1:index 3 .

<https://demo.solid.live/newplaylist.ttl#4>
a ns0:PlaylistSlot ;
ns0:playlist_item
<http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/fb2103c088521f3a47ebf88670341e49.jpg> ;
dc:title "Cast and Crew" ;
ns1:index 4 .



> Now here's the smart bit:
>
> This linked data renders right there in the browser, using some solid magic:

this is pretty cool! thx a lot for making use of pbo ;)

Cheers,


Bo


[1] http://www.easyrdf.org/converter

Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 6, 2016, 1:35:17 PM9/6/16
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Thanks.  Only question I had was is the range of playlist_item correct?  ie can I put an image / youtube video / mp4 there?
 



Now here's the smart bit:

This linked data renders right there in the browser, using some solid magic:

this is pretty cool! thx a lot for making use of pbo ;)

Cheers,


Bo


[1] http://www.easyrdf.org/converter

Bo Ferri

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Sep 6, 2016, 1:41:51 PM9/6/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 06/09/2016 19:35, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> Only question I had was is the range of playlist_item correct? ie can I
> put an image / youtube video / mp4 there?

Yes, for sure. The range of
http://purl.org/ontology/pbo/core#playlist_item is bibo:Document or
frfr:Endeavour, so I guess a very broad range that should be able to
cover a huge variety of media items, or? - i.e. this shouldn't lead to
any reasoning that makes no sense, or?

Cheers,


Bo

Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 6, 2016, 2:01:20 PM9/6/16
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Great, thanks for confirming, I'll go with this format then! :)

My next feature is to tag content, so that it can be searchable.

Do you know is it possible to tag content with a keyword, e.g. "U2" or "SomethingMadeUp" etc.

Since indexing is computationally expensive, id be looking for performance, so the lazy part of me things linking to a URI would be perhaps less easy than linking to a literal.

Possibly the tags would go at the playlist level in my use case, though you could image them being with the content too ...
 

Cheers,


Bo

Bo Ferri

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Sep 6, 2016, 3:34:14 PM9/6/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 06/09/2016 20:01, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> My next feature is to tag content, so that it can be searchable.
>
> Do you know is it possible to tag content with a keyword, e.g. "U2" or
> "SomethingMadeUp" etc.
>
> Since indexing is computationally expensive, id be looking for
> performance, so the lazy part of me things linking to a URI would be
> perhaps less easy than linking to a literal.

For generic tagging with literals I would recommend dc:subject [1].
However, depending on how you would like to design your tagging, e.g.,
just tags or tags with provenance (who added this tag etc.) or "tags" of
a certain domain (e.g. mood, genre), you may go with one of the tag
ontologies [2], or re. addressing tags of certain domains with the
Association Ontology [3].

Cheers,


Bo


[1] http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/subject
[2] http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs?q=tag
[3] http://purl.org/ontology/ao/core#

Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 9, 2016, 12:51:49 PM9/9/16
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On 6 September 2016 at 21:34, Bo Ferri <za...@smiy.org> wrote:
Hi Melvin,

On 06/09/2016 20:01, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
My next feature is to tag content, so that it can be searchable.

Do you know is it possible to tag content with a keyword, e.g. "U2" or
"SomethingMadeUp" etc.

Since indexing is computationally expensive, id be looking for
performance, so the lazy part of me things linking to a URI would be
perhaps less easy than linking to a literal.

For generic tagging with literals I would recommend dc:subject [1]. However, depending on how you would like to design your tagging, e.g., just tags or tags with provenance (who added this tag etc.) or "tags" of a certain domain (e.g. mood, genre), you may go with one of the tag ontologies [2], or re. addressing tags of certain domains with the Association Ontology [3].

Cheers,

Great, I've started out with a mix of dc : subject, schema : brand and schema : keywords

Now a let's say I have a "library" of playlists.

For example 20 people have made U2 playlists.

I want to be able to show that on a page and link to each playlist (maybe via search and thumbnail)

Question I have is:  is there a kind of library concept, something than can contain N playlists?
 

Bo Ferri

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Sep 9, 2016, 2:45:56 PM9/9/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 09/09/2016 18:51, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
> is there a kind of library concept, something than can contain N playlists?

what about bibo:Collection [1]?

Cheers,


Bo


[1] http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/terms?q=collection&vocab=bibo&type=class

Melvin Carvalho

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Sep 9, 2016, 3:15:57 PM9/9/16
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On 9 September 2016 at 20:45, Bo Ferri <za...@smiy.org> wrote:
Hi Melvin,

On 09/09/2016 18:51, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
is there a kind of library concept, something than can contain N playlists?

what about bibo:Collection [1]?

Thanks!

Hmmm it says"

"A collection of Documents or Collections"

And Document says:

"A document (noun) is a bounded physical representation of body of information designed with the capacity (and usually intent) to communicate. A document may manifest symbolic, diagrammatic or sensory-representational information."

But my playlists are just URIs with a fragid.  So maybe I cant use it here?

If so, I was looking at ... https://schema.org/CollectionPage
 

Bo Ferri

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Sep 9, 2016, 3:44:22 PM9/9/16
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Hi Melvin,

On 09/09/2016 21:15, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
> And Document says:
>
> "A document (noun) is a bounded physical representation of body of
> information designed with the capacity (and usually intent) to
> communicate. A document may manifest symbolic, diagrammatic or
> sensory-representational information."
>

I wasn't aware of that definition of bibo:Document. From my knowledge
and experience bibo:Document is utilised for every kind of bibliographic
resource, whether it's an e-book or a physical or an article or ...
also pbo:Playlist is a subclass of bibo:Document ;)

> But my playlists are just URIs with a fragid. So maybe I cant use it here?
>
> If so, I was looking at ... https://schema.org/CollectionPage

I don't think that this fits to what you are looking for. here you are
moving away from the "things" back to the web pages that are about "things".

So I would definitely vote for bibo:Collection. If you prefer schema.org
vocabulary instead, you can go with

http://bib.schema.org/Collection

(which is part of the bib-extension of schema.org)

Cheers,


Bo
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