Action.io looks really promising

[JasonOng]

Having helped setup dev env across my designer and frontend developer's machines for consistency, I know exactly the pain points that https://www.action.io/ is solving! What do you guys think?

[Andy Marks]

From looking at the demo, I think... why wouldn't I just use Vagrant locally or AWS directly with Bitnami RubyStack or the like?

The demo is nice but in my experience in-browser editors are always clunky compared to local ones so I don't see the extra value add that action.io is bringing.

 
Cheers,
Andy

Andy MARKS

Technical Principal

ThoughtWorks Singapore

email: ama...@thoughtworks.com

mobile: +65 9788 0259

web: www.thoughtworks.com

On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, JasonOng <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Having helped setup dev env across my designer and frontend developer's machines for consistency, I know exactly the pain points that https://www.action.io/ is solving! What do you guys think?

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[Jason Ong]

I'll agree with you to some extend although I'm thinking more like what heroku brings to the table when one can also set up an AMI on Amazon AWS. :P

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[KoTharThar]

Perfect to make development with Chrome Book. :)

But I do want VIM like editor in the browser, otherwise, I lose the productivity.

I think, if they allow, heroku alike GitRepo for me to push, it will kill the whole purpose.

And will be same as heroku

[Sau Sheong Chang]

From the description of what it can do it sounds like something really cool and something that I would love to use. I've been fiddling around with some ideas on how to do development completely from the cloud without setting up my own machines and have a consistent environment etc. From what I see and hear, action.io fits the bill. Can't wait to see it up and running!

[Jason Ong]

Yeah Vim's a must for myself too. Seems like they support Vim and Emacs. What I really want is a quick "check to use nginx with phusion passenger" option. Heh.

[Matthew Rudy Jacobs]

I must say I don't quite understand the thinking behind the implementation.

Why put all the interaction inside the browser?

If they've created me a virtual machine on EC2,

why not let me just ssh to it in my terminal?

Could mount the remote file system and use my own text editor

rather than trying to recreate all this functionality inside the browser.

On 21 June 2012 14:13, JasonOng <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Having helped setup dev env across my designer and frontend developer's machines for consistency, I know exactly the pain points that https://www.action.io/ is solving! What do you guys think?

--

[Jason Ong]

I think they're thinking of offline support ala dropbox which to me is the most crucial thing in order for this to be useful for development. I wanna code on the train! 

[Sau Sheong Chang]

The developers like Arun or AJ will give you the correct answer. For me, having access to the actual machine might not necessarily be the best experience. I haven't encountered anything like the RStudio Server with Ruby, but if this is what action.io can provide, I'll be totally bought in. The RStudio Server browser-based editor hands on beat the RStudio desktop and also any R editor I've used so far. It's based on ACE, but extended the functionality tremendously. 

On Thursday, 21 June 2012 14:52:34 UTC+8, Matthew Jacobs wrote:

I must say I don't quite understand the thinking behind the implementation.

Why put all the interaction inside the browser?

If they've created me a virtual machine on EC2,

why not let me just ssh to it in my terminal?

Could mount the remote file system and use my own text editor

rather than trying to recreate all this functionality inside the browser.

On 21 June 2012 14:13, JasonOng <velv...@gmail.com> wrote:

Having helped setup dev env across my designer and frontend developer's machines for consistency, I know exactly the pain points that https://www.action.io/ is solving! What do you guys think?

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[Arul Prasad M L]

I remember having similar thoughts about Heroku before trying it out and then being totally blown away by it when I used it. I think action.io takes it yet another step further.

If action.io allows you to keep your  existing Heroku like workflow, but also allows to do online editing like in the demo, I think it would be very cool.

Think of being able to travel and fix bugs from Internet cafes, on any machine available, without carrying your laptop along.

[Paul Gallagher]

Does anyone remember what became herokugarden - the original heroku implementation? It sounds similar to action.io. I must admit I never much used the online editing features of herokugarden, preferring local + git push (i.e. the heroku workflow)

Heroku dropped garden pretty swiftly, but I can't remember exactly why. I wonder if they'll ever bring it back (especially if action.io takes off)?

Regards,
Paul

[Sau Sheong Chang]

I remembered HerokuGarden -- I remembered loving it and was sorry to see it go before I could get to grips with using it. I don't remember why it was dropped either. 

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[choonkeat]

I think this is what you're looking for http://www.slideshare.net/adamwiggins/epic-pivot

-- choonkeat

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[Sau Sheong Chang]

Wow epic indeed. 

I do think that herokugarden wasn't *wrong* per se but was ahead of its time. It could that *now* is that time.

Just my 2 cents.

[Paul Gallagher]

thanks choonkeat .. exactamundo!

I hadn't seen the story presented before; very interesting that the whole web-based dev tools aspect was so core to the pivot.

[Pete Kim]

Hi, creator of Action.IO here.

We are different from Heroku Garden in that we also provide a full
Linux VM where you can run your specs, take tasks and all unixy
things. This has been made possible by recent enhancement in
virtualizarion technology that allowed us to virtualize on top of EC2,
which is already virtualized. (which wasn't possible previously)

We actually demo-ed at Heroku's SF office last month in one of their
weekly Friday brownbag sessions and Adam Wiggins (Co-founder of
Heroku) was very excited by the product, with insightful comments like
how we could let people use Cloud SaaS like Heroku Postgres, MongoHQ,
RedisToGo etc that you use in production in development as well and
that would increase the dev/prod parity dramatically. His seal of
approval is proudly displayed in the home page.

You can see in the demo video (watch in 720p HD) that there is an SSH
URI where you have direct access to the box as well as the web based
shell fully supporting vim/emacs.

What we have shown in the demo video is just the tip of the iceberg.
More demo videos with features such as google docs style realtime
collaboration and version controlled dev env is coming soon, stay
tuned.

In the mean time, you can sign up to be put in the waiting list for
private beta access.

Thank you,
Peter Jihoon Kim
Co-founder, Action.IO

On Jun 21, 8:40 pm, Paul Gallagher <gallagher.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> thanks choonkeat .. exactamundo!
>
> I hadn't seen the story presented before; very interesting that the whole
> web-based dev tools aspect was so core to the pivot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:20 PM, choonkeat <choonk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think this is what you're looking for
> >http://www.slideshare.net/adamwiggins/epic-pivot
>
> > -- choonkeat
>

> > On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:14 PM, Sau Sheong Chang <saushe...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> I remembered HerokuGarden -- I remembered loving it and was sorry to see
> >> it go before I could get to grips with using it. I don't remember why it
> >> was dropped either.
>
> >> On Thursday, 21 June 2012 19:37:27 UTC+8, paul wrote:
>
> >>> Does anyone remember what became herokugarden - the original heroku
> >>> implementation? It sounds similar to action.io. I must admit I never
> >>> much used the online editing features of herokugarden, preferring local +
> >>> git push (i.e. the heroku workflow)
>
> >>> Heroku dropped garden pretty swiftly, but I can't remember exactly why.
> >>> I wonder if they'll ever bring it back (especially if action.io takes
> >>> off)?
>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Paul
>

> >>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Arul Prasad M L <arulpra...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>>> I remember having similar thoughts about Heroku before trying it out
> >>>> and then being totally blown away by it when I used it. I think
> >>>> action.io takes it yet another step further.
>
> >>>> If action.io allows you to keep your  existing Heroku like workflow,
> >>>> but also allows to do online editing like in the demo, I think it would be
> >>>> very cool.
>
> >>>> Think of being able to travel and fix bugs from Internet cafes, on any
> >>>> machine available, without carrying your laptop along.
> >>>> On Jun 20, 2012 11:36 PM, "Andy Marks" <ama...@thoughtworks.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> From looking at the demo, I think... why wouldn't I just use Vagrant
> >>>>> locally or AWS directly with Bitnami RubyStack or the like?
>
> >>>>> The demo is nice but in my experience in-browser editors are always
> >>>>> clunky compared to local ones so I don't see the extra value add that
> >>>>> action.io is bringing.
>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Andy
>

> >>>>> *Andy MARKS*
> >>>>> *Technical Principal*
> >>>>> ThoughtWorks Singapore
> >>>>> *email*: ama...@thoughtworks.com
> >>>>> *mobile*:+65 9788 0259
> >>>>> *web*:www.thoughtworks.com

>
> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 2:13 PM, JasonOng <velve...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Having helped setup dev env across my designer and frontend
> >>>>>> developer's machines for consistency, I know exactly the pain points that

> >>>>>>https://www.action.io/is solving! What do you guys think?

>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>>> Groups "Singapore Ruby Brigade" group.
> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/

> >>>>>> **msg/singapore-rb/-/**L0U5PxOkAfAJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/singapore-rb/-/L0U5PxOkAfAJ>
> >>>>>> .

> >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to singap...@googlegroups.com.
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> >>>>>> singapore-rb+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<singapore-rb%2Bunsubscribe@goog legroups.com>
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> >>>>>> group/singapore-rb?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/singapore-rb?hl=en>
> >>>>>> .

>
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[Pete Kim]

Sorry for all the typos, that was composed on an iPhone.

[Paul Gallagher]

Hi Pete,

That's a wicked demo video. You guys have been busy! Getting the code editor *and* a the console working nicely in a browser can't have been pretty.

"tail logs like a boss" lol

Of all the possible benefits, the "pair and code remotely" possibilities is the one that really struck a chord with me. If it will be possible to have 2 people accessing the same code editor, seeing realtime updates (also handy if you can integrate a voip product) it will be awesome. the gotomeeting of coding.

Cheers,
Paul

PS: changing my .sig to "Sorry for all the typos, this was composed on an iPhone." ;-)

[Jason Ong]

Here's another example of what something like this can help make my life better.

We recently deployed an app that got popular pretty fast. Doing "heroku db:pull" was fine before the app got popular but the sync quickly became super duper slow. I had to use pgbackups addon instead to dump data into local machine. That meant switching my dev db to Postgres - it has always been my policy to use Rails default sqlite3 until I really need PG. As much as I favor PG over MySQL, setting up PG has never been a pleasant experience. The lazy sysadmin in me just want a "[x] Use PostgreSQL for development database"...

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[Meng Weng Wong]

On 21 Jun, 2012, at 7:26 PM, Arul Prasad M L <arulp...@gmail.com> wrote:

If action.io allows you to keep your  existing Heroku like workflow, but also allows to do online editing like in the demo, I think it would be very cool.

Think of being able to travel and fix bugs from Internet cafes, on any machine available, without carrying your laptop along.

You've put your finger on it – this sounds like a good characterisation of a disruptive innovation.

Enabling development /for the cloud/, /in the cloud/.

Browser based IDE. Google Docs for coders.

It's the next logical step really.

First it was: write code offline. Run dev app offline.

Then it was: write code offline. Run dev app online.

Now it is: write code online. Run dev app online.

[Sebastiaan Deckers]

Damn, should've squatted ;)

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2295100

[Arun Thampi]

Thanks everyone for contributing to the discussion.

As Peter mentioned, the browser-based IDE is Step 1 and there is a long road ahead of us. Power-users might not find the browser based IDE suitable for them, but that's fine because we don't expect them to switch over to a completely new system right away. But if we get new developers who are new to programming (or just a new language/framework) on action.io, then our hope is that they will see action.io as the de-facto way to work. (Similar to how Heroku has become the de-facto way to deploy for a generation of Rails/Ruby programmers.)

As we develop better tools (like the dropbox functionality Peter mentioned), more and more established programmers would also move to action.

Once things stabilize, we will personally be developing action.io on action.io, so the better tools probably come faster than you think :)

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[Ming Yeow Ng]

just adding my 2 cents here - that we should be careful not to use our "power-user" requirements to judge any new product.

new services/platforms usually gain traction via simplified requirements for a relatively new market segment who would prefer simplicity over customization.

it has to be that way, mainly because the power users are so entrenched in their existing habits that it is very difficult for em to visualize how their habits might change.

eventually, simplicity would win over more and more of the power users, and eventually becomes the norm. 

aws, heroku both moved up the ladder step by step, even tho they had their fair number of dis-believers at e start. even now they do. 

lastly, the dev stack is vastly simplified and mobility is vastly more pervasive then they were just 3 years ago. both of these are big reasons why things could turn out very different 

imho of coz

M

[Tze Yang Ng]

+1 for developing action.io on action.io :)

[Mingming Wang]

The solution should be simple but not simpler.

[Meng Weng Wong]

Clayton Christensen couldn't agree more :)

The obvious target market for this is the codeacademy crowd, not nerds like us.

The space is very promising. I'd like to learn more about how action.io differentiates from alternatives like c9.io.

[Boon Kiat, Han]

c9.io was pretty fun very much like years ago with herokugarden?(someone reminded me)

for any serious software development even cloudnine has a long way

I think heroku made that observation, and zoomed the product towards the things that mattered to serious devs

a) simple command line and API (get my code online, give it the usual database, a URL, go live, monitor) 

b) support the popular dependency management for the stack (bundler, leiningen... you were going to use these anyways) 

c) a view towards the mid term (dynos scaling, add-ons, SSL...)

For the IDE aspect, agree with Meng that this feature seems more casual, educational, 

or maybe good for after the main bulk of coding had already been done, given to the maintenance team to like make code fixes... or smth

On the 'machine' aspect, this is a nice blue ocean, there isn't something right now,

so I would really love a neat online interface that can 'bootstrap' a nice 'box' in zero time, provisioned to my location, with a simple interface to push/share my code 

---

From: Meng Weng Wong <meng...@gmail.com>
To: singap...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Meng Weng Wong <meng...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [SRB] Action.io looks really promising

[Arun Thampi]

On Jun 22, 2012, at 3:52 PM, Meng Weng Wong wrote:

> Clayton Christensen couldn't agree more :)
>
> The obvious target market for this is the codeacademy crowd, not nerds like us.
>
> The space is very promising. I'd like to learn more about how action.io differentiates from alternatives like c9.io.

Wouldn't want to comment on what cloud9's future plans will be, but at the moment it looks like they're investing heavily in the web IDE whereas for action the web IDE is just step 1 (go-to market if you will). If you're talking just features, as Pete mentioned, the cloud9 shell is pretty rudimentary, whereas action's shell is a full Linux shell from which you can actually run stuff (like a server) or install gems, libraries and even compile code.

Re: the comparisons with heroku garden, I don't think it's apples-to-oranges because Heroku was trying to be both a dev environment as well as a hosting (production) environment at the same time - which was pretty ambitious for a startup in 2007. We're pretty clear that at this point in our life, there are companies such as Heroku, DotCloud and many others who do the production-ready stuff just fine, but there is a gap in the market for a portable, easy-to-setup and ready-for-the-future development environments, and that's what we're focused on.

We have a long and difficult journey ahead, but we're super excited about some of the stuff we have planned :)

We'll definitely hook all of you up with the beta as soon as we can, and would love to get more feedback from everyone.

[Meng Weng Wong]

Sure. Would you say this is more a Singapore startup or a Silicon Valley startup, at this point? In terms of hiring and building community and sales and so on.

[Adinda Praditya]

Can anyone invite me? Thanks!