Sent Mails from Project-Portals with fixed Mail Identity for each Project Portal

[Volker Löwer]

Dear all,

there has just been some discussion about the future of SG,

I have just been asked by my colleagues several time now, if it is possible to send mails from a fixed Mail-Identity for each project by default.

Background: reducing e-mail confusion

IN SG we manage our projects with the project module and it works excellent by inserting an email module so OUTGOING mails are written in the project and stored there.

For larger project where we have bigger teams (internal and  external) we also generate a unique project-e-mailaddress at our mail provider and mount an imap module to the project for all INCOMING mails.

Works fine, too. (At our IS-Provider we also add a mail forwarding to our internal team members, so every one is posted automatically).

Additionally for larger projects we create a mail identity for the project using the unique project-e-mailaddress as sender address for OUTGOING mails, so people will reply to this unique project-e-mailaddress.

Works fine, too.

But, now we have the issue while writing a mail from within a project portal that the default sender mail address is the username, so you have to select the e-Mail identity from a dropdown list every time you are writing a mail.

So the goal would be to have a result like:

Project Portal "A"

witing an e-mail with the mail identity of project "A" as default sender, or as a fixed sender Mailadress, the project-e-mailaddress "A"

Project Portal "B"

witing an e-mail with the mail identity of project "B" as default sender, or as a fixed sender Mailadress, the project-e-mailaddress "B"

Is there any idea how this can be done?

Maybe something like mapping the mail-identity as a "normal" module and mounting it in the project portal containing only one mailaddress.

Or maybe something else. Any help and idea is welcome.

Cheers, Volker

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi Volker

Check the emails schema: modules/schema/emails.xml. There you find the general definition for the senders address:

<field  name="efrom" simple_type="select" ...
        simple_default_function="dbselect|simple_sys_users ...">
        ...
        <data function="dbselect|simple_sys_identities ..."/>
        ...
</field>

You can see why the email module defaults to the user's email-address as sender and why you can choose email identities to select.

You simply change the simple_default_function  to simple_default="project-e-mailaddress"

 for each project-email-folder individually and the correct default project-e-mailaddress should be selected as default.

I hope this helps

Patrick

[Volker Löwer]

Hi Patrick,

it works like a charm,  so you made my day! Thank you very much!!!

We changed the e-mail module by using the "anpassen" function (don't know the english term) which is really great, so the individual changes (by folder) are stored and documented in the database.

Like several times before I am very surprised and pleased how flexible and customizable SG is.

Just some months ago I did once again! some research what is on the groupware and so called unified collaboration market, but to my best knowledge there was nothing around that could compete in terms of simplicity and flexibility. Most of what I found have been very closed proprietary solutions with a lot of chatting and on-line conferencing gadgets

Coming back to your latest exchange with Massimo: Please let me know, if there is any activity for sustaining/maintaining, re-designing etc. --- maybe we can be of any help there.

Cheers, Volker

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Thank you for your suggestions Volker.

You can also go to system/tree and add a differential xml-schema for a particular folder. SG then merges the basic schema + differential schema + the customization in the database into one schema for the particual folder.

I fully agree with you about simplicity and flexibility. But in the long run SG needs a maintainer to survive for professional use and a revamp is already necessary today. Two existing solutions - I know of - might be worth investigating (in no way this is an endorsement from my part):

Nuclos: a German based ERP-Wizard-Tool to build your own management system easily from the ground

https://www.nuclos.de/?lang=en

OpenXava: a model driven Java Platform where you write simple Java classes similar to writing xml-schemas and the rest is generated automatically like with SG

https://www.openxava.org/

with both systems however you need to start from scratch before being able to use them.

So one thing you could certainly do - and also Massimo - is to check these platforms to get an opinion about these systems and share your opinions with us. 

Best wishes to all and stay sane and well.

Patrick

[Volker Löwer]

Patrick,

thanks for the links, I could not resist to have a brief look into it.

Interestingly you looked into ERP frameworks available, while I looked into groupware stuff.

As for our business I like to have a solution that is more groupware related, as we are doing consulting and planning stuff, so it is all about sharing information, all kinds of documents, mails, knowledge, including access to 3rd party servers etc. Besides that we need a shared calendar, tasks, contact-activities, forecasting of invoices, billing and accounting including financial controlling, but not like an online shop that is selling thousands of alike items and doing mass targeted marketing dealing with many leads and opportunities.

So because of that almost every project we have is very process related and somewhat different and needs different and adjustable workflows and structures, decided and maintained by the project manager for the specific project.. So adding a module or a folder for a set of modules for a project is pretty common for us. Even adding a field in a module for one specific project works fine, when needed. Maybe lawyers may have some similar needs for their business.  besides all bugs and glitches there is almost nothing that can not be administrated with SGS - from emails to invoices and banking, clicking a phone link and firing a sip call.The nice thing about it is everthing is all in one system and everything works the same way.

So from our point of view, which may be very limited, I fear, this is a very effective and efficient solution.

We even cancelled the sync to mobile function (funambol) and instead of that now can dial any contact of our database by some touches from our smartphones or at the office desktop. And yes, it would urgently need a revamp and maintenance, so we had to put it behind a VPN for security reasons and are still using an older Debian LAMP setup. We would like to change that, of course, to be able to run the CMS for our webpage(s), FAQ, Helpdesk, Wiki etc. for our customers AND our team.

But anyway, that said, nuclos looks promising in the way they generate interaction between the different "tables".

openxava is the more radical approach, which I basically like, but needs more developement effort from the user/customer side and beacuse of this does not provide a good starting point - you have to create almost everything from scratch.

So both look fine, but I did not really fall in love with one of them so far. But this was only a very brief look, maybe I need to look deeper into this products.

Stay safe and let's keep in touch,

Cheers, Volker

On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 6:41:31 PM UTC+2, Volker Löwer wrote:

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi Volker

So what I understand in short is:

1. your main concern with SGS is security

2. you have a lot of 'ad hoc' team workflows across organizations.

3. you like out-of-the-box solutions to start customization

ad-hoc workflows and out-of-the-box across organizations is what makes SGS an excellent and unparalleled groupware (including the easy sql mechanism to link tables)

Your main concern today is security. Which means upgrading SGS to higher PHP versions would help you. That's a vote for this strategy, right?

If running PHP 5.3.29 on a modern linux server helps you a little bit, consider using an administration panel like Plesk. They configured PHP 5.3.29 even on their most recent Plesk version and you can run it on the most recent linux servers. I just wonder for how long they will support this PHP version.

Patrick

PS: I do mainly process management with SGS (together with a companion mobile app)

[Massimo Arnaudo]

Hi Patrick,

I have reached the two links that you have suggested, although my opinion is surely superficial, OpenXava is very similar to SGS as logic. Starting from the concept that you know what you leave, but not exactly what you find, I would have some qualms about starting to use a whole new 'framework'.

Today I use SGS practically on my own (and for this I do little text in the logic we are writing about), even if I have some external collaborator to whom I can entrust activities that they don't use (too much reluctant to use software programs whose word can only be immediacy): in a nutshell I realize that I only use a Ferrari to shop at the supermarket behind the house ...
Work organization, scalability are the basis of my choice of the past; for this reason I created departments, attributable to each of them, in which I insert the activities to be carried out, the customers and the potentials, the commitments of the calendar and so on: I use the merging of folders to see them all grouped in my home in a way to have an overview.
Some time ago I also used Funambol to synchronize contacts, activities and commitments but in the migration from one server to another I was no longer able to reinstall it, losing the ability to synchronize with Google contacts, Calendar and Tasks or Keep (they are very practical for use with an android smartphone) and I don't know if it's still worth spending time installing and configuring it.

Leaving aside the conviction / imposition activity that I should do on each of them so that the efficiencies that SGS allows are expressed, I realize that there are still sections of the program that do not work as I wish and for this I have had to get closer to Google Suite.

I take this opportunity to list the things that could be studied in depth for the use that I make of it, as at the architectural level I could not express myself, if not praising the simplicity and foresight of those who created the program: Thomas Bley!

The main limitation I find in SGS is the e-mail section. I use an IMAP box and I cannot organize the emails between read and unread, have a tree view, merge them with a contact, company, label; to do this I have to select them, drag / copy them into a subfolder and from there edit them (this for the incoming email, as for the outgoing ones I would also have succeeded) losing their presence in the IMAP folder. Also I can't use the html format to insert and / or modify simple tables in the mails I send.

It would also be advisable to have the option of using SGS safely (https).

It would be necessary to review the export process, as I often get errors for the excell format (now I only use CSV).

It would be interesting to create the possibility to connect to Google Drive (as I can edit the documents without downloading them, share them and if I want I can monitor the odifche made by third parties), even if you can use the Dropbox service ...

It would be interesting to have a more intense geolocation, so that you can activate alerts, for example related to an activity to be carried out, when you are near the address of a customer or a lead (obviously for use via smartphone) .

It would be interesting to create automated reports that can remind us using an email, for example every Monday morning, all the activities that had to be completed the previous week and that have not been closed and those that we should carry out in the current week.

It would be interesting to have a form in which to place orders for my customers that I will have to send to the principals for fulfillment, and from here to insert the whole chain that leads to the issue by the latter of the invoices and the monitoring of commissions that they will have to pay me ;-)

I am not able to say if a part of what I have expressed is already possible to implement it immediately, but I have the hope that it is, without replacing the program with another 'framework'

Un saluto

Massimo

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[Volker Löwer]

Hi Patrick, hi Massimo,

well as we are using SG as our business admin and workflow engine and it is fine with us this way and necessary having it on a server in our office behind a VPN.

So parts of SG that would be public like helpdesk, forum, CMS etc. can not be used for customers or website visitors, that is the main drawback from our perspective.

Second we would like to update our Hardware, the Debian, Apache & PHP, migrate from MYSQL to Maria etc., but we don't know what will be going to work on that kind of platform/environment.

As Massimo wrote: that you know what you leave, but not exactly what you find ...

To what Massimo is asking for I feel some parts of his wishes may already be built in, or somehow possible (https, we used it on a rented server ). but it may depend on the special case of use.

So I would be interested to keep SG going and advancing, but I do not know how many people maybe still interested.

One very bad thing about SG is the design and the UI, which is very straight forward, but making people afraid. They like more fancy App-style buttons and are not used to straight forward action.

So many people today click on an object and wait for the GUI to show what is possible to do with it instead of knowing what they want to accomplish (offensive/defensive).

And second nightmare for the users: in SG everything works (and looks) almost exactly the same way, which makes it easy (simple) and irritating complex at the same time.

So well, we are fine using it for oir business, but development would be nice, or a proper substitute, if there was one.

By the way I came across another ERP, maybe you know of it.

https://github.com/odoo

Looks interesting ...

Ok, have to leave now,

stay save,

Cheers Volker

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[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi

Just some comments below

On Tuesday, 12 May 2020 21:20:31 UTC+2, Volker Löwer wrote:

Hi Patrick, hi Massimo,

well as we are using SG as our business admin and workflow engine and it is fine with us this way and necessary having it on a server in our office behind a VPN.

running SGS with https is basically not a problem. You just need to configure the server (eg apache ) accordingly.

(there are some security problems with old php versions which could be solved by updating for a newer php version).

So parts of SG that would be public like helpdesk, forum, CMS etc. can not be used for customers or website visitors, that is the main drawback from our perspective.

if you run SGS on a server with https enabled this is possible to achieve.

what prevents you to do that besides an old php version?

 

Second we would like to update our Hardware, the Debian, Apache & PHP, migrate from MYSQL to Maria etc., but we don't know what will be going to work on that kind of platform/environment.

As Massimo wrote: that you know what you leave, but not exactly what you find ...

any modern linux server is fine as long as it can run a LAMP stack. Most of them do. Even NAS with LAMP stacks are fine (eg. Synology, QNAP). I don't know if Maria works, but MySQL on modern linux servers are fine. The easiest way to run SGS is to rent a hosted virtual linux server. But you could as well run a modern virtual linux server (debian, ubuntu, etc) on a NAS with virtualization. The only problem again is the old php version. One way to cope with this, is to use a preconfigured php package with Plesk. It works! 

 

To what Massimo is asking for I feel some parts of his wishes may already be built in, or somehow possible (https, we used it on a rented server ). but it may depend on the special case of use.

yes https works (good enough for public installations)

 

So I would be interested to keep SG going and advancing, but I do not know how many people maybe still interested.

One very bad thing about SG is the design and the UI, which is very straight forward, but making people afraid. They like more fancy App-style buttons and are not used to straight forward action.

the auto generated UI is part of the simplicity and flexibility of SGS. On the other side I agree with Volker.

the other thing is, that you can design your own UI if needed. SGS uses the Smarty Template Engine for the UI. For each asset type and for each folder in SGS you can however define your own UI with your special buttons, if you want (template="VALUE").

 

 

So many people today click on an object and wait for the GUI to show what is possible to do with it instead of knowing what they want to accomplish (offensive/defensive).

 

And second nightmare for the users: in SG everything works (and looks) almost exactly the same way, which makes it easy (simple) and irritating complex at the same time.

I agree

So well, we are fine using it for oir business, but development would be nice, or a proper substitute, if there was one.

By the way I came across another ERP, maybe you know of it.

https://github.com/odoo

Looks interesting ...

I had a look at it. It is former openERP. I think you need skilled programmers to adapt it to your needs (at least that's what they say in the doc, phyton programming)

[Patrick Pliessnig]

My comments below

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 18:44:57 UTC+2, MassimoA wrote:

Hi Patrick,

I have reached the two links that you have suggested, although my opinion is surely superficial, OpenXava is very similar to SGS as logic. Starting from the concept that you know what you leave, but not exactly what you find, I would have some qualms about starting to use a whole new 'framework'.

It seems to me like you say, OpenXava has the flexibility but for the rest, I don't know. But it also has a large community.

 

Today I use SGS practically on my own (and for this I do little text in the logic we are writing about), even if I have some external collaborator to whom I can entrust activities that they don't use (too much reluctant to use software programs whose word can only be immediacy): in a nutshell I realize that I only use a Ferrari to shop at the supermarket behind the house ...
Work organization, scalability are the basis of my choice of the past; for this reason I created departments, attributable to each of them, in which I insert the activities to be carried out, the customers and the potentials, the commitments of the calendar and so on: I use the merging of folders to see them all grouped in my home in a way to have an overview.
Some time ago I also used Funambol to synchronize contacts, activities and commitments but in the migration from one server to another I was no longer able to reinstall it, losing the ability to synchronize with Google contacts, Calendar and Tasks or Keep (they are very practical for use with an android smartphone) and I don't know if it's still worth spending time installing and configuring it.

I think maintaining the API to link SGS with the Goolge Apps is big and ever going effort and need skills. The same holds true for Funambol.

Leaving aside the conviction / imposition activity that I should do on each of them so that the efficiencies that SGS allows are expressed, I realize that there are still sections of the program that do not work as I wish and for this I have had to get closer to Google Suite.

I take this opportunity to list the things that could be studied in depth for the use that I make of it, as at the architectural level I could not express myself, if not praising the simplicity and foresight of those who created the program: Thomas Bley!

The main limitation I find in SGS is the e-mail section. I use an IMAP box and I cannot organize the emails between read and unread,

if there is a tag like field name="seen" in the nodb_imap.xml schema this could probably be done easily


 

have a tree view, merge them with a contact, company, label; to do this I have to select them, drag / copy them into a subfolder and from there edit them (this for the incoming email, as for the outgoing ones I would also have succeeded) losing their presence in the IMAP folder. Also I can't use the html format to insert and / or modify simple tables in the mails I send.

I agree, the email-functionality is not really satisfying

 

It would also be advisable to have the option of using SGS safely (https).

there is an option for this

It would be necessary to review the export process, as I often get errors for the excell format (now I only use CSV).

this might eventually be done with not too much effort by integrating a modern php to excel export library

to export to xls, I normally use Libreoffice. I have never problems with this combination

 

It would be interesting to create the possibility to connect to Google Drive (as I can edit the documents without downloading them, share them and if I want I can monitor the odifche made by third parties), even if you can use the Dropbox service ...

there is a GoogleDrive-Module in SGS, but it is maybe a little bit out of date and would need revamp.

 

It would be interesting to have a more intense geolocation, so that you can activate alerts, for example related to an activity to be carried out, when you are near the address of a customer or a lead (obviously for use via smartphone) .

this could be achieved by combining other tools like: Zapier, Tasker/Automate with a direct integration to the MySL-DB.

But generally speaking a smartphone UI integrated with SGS is missing today.

 

It would be interesting to create automated reports that can remind us using an email, for example every Monday morning, all the activities that had to be completed the previous week and that have not been closed and those that we should carry out in the current week.

This could be achieved with a scheduler running and emailing SGS-Links to your inbox. Check out a tool like ifttt.com or zapier.com

 

It would be interesting to have a form in which to place orders for my customers that I will have to send to the principals for fulfillment, and from here to insert the whole chain that leads to the issue by the latter of the invoices and the monitoring of commissions that they will have to pay me ;-)

this is possibly feasible with the standard customization tools of SGS (customized schemas). But I need more specific description to be able to really judge. If it can be modelled with simple relational database tables then it should be possible implement it easily

I am not able to say if a part of what I have expressed is already possible to implement it immediately, but I have the hope that it is, without replacing the program with another 'framework'

I suggest you also check these tools for your work. Not to replace SGS but in combination with it:

Zapier.com (automate workflows)

Ifttt.com (automate workflows)

Trello.com (Kanban board with integration)

Tasker/Automate to automate your smartphone

 

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[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi Massimo, Volker

I've got two impressions from our discussion:

• Nobody else seems to be interested, people would have participated, I guess.
  I checked also on sourceforge and github about activities. On github, some people have forked the sgs code years ago, but no other activities can be seen so far.
• A few troubles with the current situation could be solved by migrating to newer php versions.
  This could at least prolonge the life cycle of SGS for us.

From this I suggest, we should try and migrate the system to a newer php version, but not - for the moment at least -  install new functions. Just keep the system going.

What do you think about that and what could you contribute in doing that?

(for Massimo I understand that he could execute some well defined, not too technical tasks)

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi Massimo & Volker

I checked the migration instructions for php applications.

My conclusion is that it should be possible without too much effort to migrate from php 5.3.29 to 5.6 in a first step and then from there to php 7.x. Also the newest versions of MySQL should not be a problem, With Postgresql, I think version 9 should work. Beyond that I don't know.

With PHP 5.6 it should be possible to use Debian 9 [1] or Ubuntu 18.04 [2]. But if we start doing that, the goal should be to update to the newest version of PHP 7.4. With that goal, we can extend the life cycle of SGS considerably into the future.

Some updates are difficult to judge without testing. So testing things is certainly necessary for the functions you want to use.

I went over the migration steps from PHP 5.3.29 to PHP 5.4 and put the result online here [3]

[1] https://tecadmin.net/install-php-debian-9-stretch/

[2] https://tecadmin.net/install-php5-on-ubuntu/

[3] http://simplegroupware-lab.github.io/0.745p/

[Volker Löwer]

Dear Patrick, dear Massimo,
sorry, I had some vacation with my wife going for a sailing trip and there was no time to respond any earlier.
Seems we are on our own in redoing SG. Well that siad,  I am not a software engineer, nor am I a programmer, I studied applied physics a long time ago, but I managed to do some quick and dirty code alterations from existing code and know some basics of html, php, SQL and alike.

So if you could guide Massimo and me through what has to be done to revamp to newer php versions, we could try our best and assist. Besides that my company will allow me to spent some time on it, as we are using it productively.

I already tried to check what php parts have become deprecated, as you did, Patrick, but that was not done in structured way.

Maybe we are able to find more interested people, once we start the work and let others know.

So from my side, let's go and see where we can get and what we can achieve.

Cheers, Volker

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi Volker

Governements tell us to go into home office but you go into sailing. Is that justice? Lol. North Sea?

Meanwhile I did some more work on SGS. One of the harder parts to move on to more modern php is moving from php 5.4 to 5.5 (as Massimo did). In fact, replacing the instruction preg_replace by preg_replace_callback [1] (what hits Massimo) needs some work and knowledge. I am somewhere on the way. I expect more to come.

The bad news is that - in my opinion - the code is hard to maintain as it is not respecting sound guidelines for software engineering. I wouldn't dare change the functionality without first untangle things. You never know what parts of the code suffer when you change something somewhere else. This is especially true with every aspect of sgsml. The good news is that quite a few parts are libraries maintained by others, like the pmwiki libary. So for example migrating pmwiki to a more modern version should be doable. For example, I use the original code of pmwiki to replace preg_replace with preg_replace_callback in that part of the code.

One functional element we could revamp directly, is the user interface. In fact - what I can see in the smarty templates - is quite a good localisation of the layout of the user interface. In short, to generate output, data is basically stored in global variables which are then used by smarty to generate the output. I did some testing with that, if we mix in responsive style sheets in the templates, we should be able to produce a modern responsive user interface. a responsive user interface is one that automatically adjust to the size of the display. See [2]. That could make it more appealing for user.

A third point are webhooks. A webhook is a configured url to get things done when a certain condition is met. The url concept of sgs makes it probably ready to be used with webhooks. In combination with a service like ifttt.com or zapier.com we could think about synchronisation and automatisation. for example: if an email arrives in an inbox, the email could be saved directly into sgs or if I create a contact, it is automatically synchronized with another contact-service.

[1] the reason for this change is the deprecation of the dangerous function eval(). Unfortunately I discovered that Thomas Bley introduced a non documented callback to his former website simple-groupware.de that executes a script 1.php on this website. This website still exists but officially with another owner. So this callback is a huge security risk and probably always was. If you want to get rid of it, I can guide you how to eliminate. Just ask me.

[2]

[Patrick Pliessnig]

From what I know, I'd say that we need to do these things here:

1. migrate php, technical stuff (I could do that)
2. test the migrated code (I guess you have both the necessary skills for testing)
3. setting up a work environment with todo-list, faqs, documentation, etc.
   we could use github for example
4. to try to get other people involved, we need to publish what we do.
   so setting up and maintaining a new website and publishing it to the interesting places (like sourceforge) could do the job.
5. create an official fork of sgs. this would mean that we rename the whole thing
6. working out a roadmap (and publishing it on the website)
   
7. a new user interface. this asks for some knowledge in html, css and javascript.
   I could guide you, if you want.
   
8. studying the opportunities with webhooks and sgs
9. more ...
   

you are welcome to make propositions

[Patrick Pliessnig]

Hi

On the way to PHP 7.4, I checked the code a little bit more in depth. As already said before the bad news is that the code is basically a hack and hard to maintain or extend.

The good news is that it is a consistent hack. With modern language features of PHP like classes and interfaces, it is possible to create structured wrappers around the existing code and then to work with these wrappers to make things easier. Eventually the old hack could then be eliminated. As an example I studied it for database access. Database access is scattered all over the code. With a proper wrapper, we can create a single point of access to the database (postgresql, mysql, sqlite and others).

In other words, with the wrapper strategy, it makes sense to apply some modifications to the features of sgs and hence to prolong its life cycle.

On the other hand sgs lacks some important features that cannot be coped with by modifying or extending the existing code base. Other tools like Openxava do only partially cover the features of sgs. The question is: is it worth investing a lot of energy with sgs?

I digged deeper for an answer to this question and I found the programming language Python with the framework Django [1]. indeed with this technology stack a huge leap forward could be accomplished. The philosophy is the same, a big part is already done and the community is great.

1) a powerful modeling language suitable for non-programmers if well tailord (to replace the sgs module schemas)

2) more openness to integrate 3rd party company ressources

3) powerful API [2] to decouple the user interface from the db models (to integrate smart devices and other devices)

4) estimated 75% of the required features are already built in (hence, we would need developer resources for the rest).

5) a huge community to move things forwared instead of a one man show.

6) mainstream stability. Python is one of the most used technologies in today's markets.

As of today's judgement, I is much more worth to invest energy in this technology to move sgs forward than to adapt and extend the existing code base.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Django_(web_framework)

[2] https://www.django-rest-framework.org/

[Massimo Arnaudo]

Hi Patrick,

SGS is objectively at a dead end, and the group is silent: what you signal could give new life to the project, perhaps expanding the audience already present in the community.
As far as I'm concerned I would be in favor, but from here it will be necessary to understand how to divide the efforts that this project will still require.

let's wait

Massimo

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