[Proposal] Change CMS for Simal website

[Sander W G van der Waal]

Hi all,

The external website for Simal [1] is currently built
using Forrest. However, it is difficult to update documents
on this system and it does not currently run on a release.
Therefore I propose to switch to another CMS. I created
issue 258 for this [2].

Ross proposed to switch to Drupal [3]. Please let me know
your thoughts on this issue. Should we change the CMS and
if so to which CMS?

Thanks,

Sander

[1] http://simal.oss-watch.ac.uk/
[2] http://code.google.com/p/simal/issues/detail?id=258
[3] http://www.drupal.org

[Randy Metcalfe]

Hi,

I have no problem with the external website switching to Drupal. It's
a good FOSS product with a strong community.

However, with the increase of wiki pages with significant content in
the Google Code Simal site [4], it might help to at the same time
clarify (once again?) why Simal has two wikis in play. The "external"
site, initially was the demo site and the project site. Google Gode
was a code hosting site with mailing list facilities. Would it make
sense to move all of the project information out of the Google Code
wiki and into the Drupal wiki? If not, again clarification would help
as to what different purposes are being served by two wikis.

Cheers,

Randy

--
Randy Metcalfe

[4] http://code.google.com/p/simal/w/list


2009/12/9 Sander W G van der Waal <sander.v...@oucs.ox.ac.uk>:

[Sander W G van der Waal]

Hi,

> From: simal-con...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:simal-con...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Randy Metcalfe
> Sent: 09 December 2009 14:23
.
.
.
> The "external"
> site, initially was the demo site and the project site.
> Google Gode was a code hosting site with mailing list
> facilities. Would it make sense to move all of the project
> information out of the Google Code wiki and into the Drupal
> wiki?

That's a good point. I don't know what the advantage currently
is of having these two different sites besides the fact that
the Google one is a wiki. I like the fact that the Google wiki
is integrated with Subversion, but I guess that something similar
can be done with Drupal (I haven't looked into that yet).

So if we create a wiki section in the new CMS, can we merge the
content in this one new website?

Sander

[Ross Gardler]

2009/12/9 Randy Metcalfe <randy.m...@gmail.com>:

> I have no problem with the external website switching to Drupal. It's
> a good FOSS product with a strong community.
>
> However, with the increase of wiki pages with significant content in
> the Google Code Simal site [4], it might help to at the same time
> clarify (once again?) why Simal has two wikis in play.

The proposal is not about a second wiki and we don't have a second
wiki now. It is about the documentation site being managed by a CMS.
The original intention of using Forrest was to allow easy inclusion of
documentation with source downloads. However, Forrest is old and
monolithic. The team have, until recently, been sleeping and it
remains in a state of flux between a difficult to configure, but
useful, publishing platform and a leaner meaner solution. I do not
believe it is likely to reach the leaner solution any time soon and do
not have a personal interest in driving that work forwards. Hence the
suggestion for moving away from Forrest.

> The "external"
> site, initially was the demo site and the project site. Google Gode
> was a code hosting site with mailing list facilities.

The original "external" site was the documentation site. The Google
Code Wiki was about project management and nothing more. It contains
process descriptions etc. It does not contain any documentation. The
demo site was never at http://simal.oss-watch.ac.uk

> Would it make
> sense to move all of the project information out of the Google Code
> wiki and into the Drupal wiki?
>
> If not, again clarification would help
> as to what different purposes are being served by two wikis.

I am -0 on Drupal being used as a wiki. I believe it should be a CMS
for the creation of our *product* documentation. This is different
from being a place to keep process notes about the management of the
project which creates the product. The reason for the strict
separation is to allow us to easily package the documentation with a
release without polluting it with information that is not needed in
that release. As a byproduct it allowed us to keep process information
close to hand in Google Code.

That is, if you checkout one of the modules you get the documentation
for that module. You do not get documentation for other parts of the
system and you do not get process documentation. If you are working in
Google Code you have integrated search tools for process documentation
without results being polluted by user documentation.

I believe this still makes sense. However, that does not mean I am +1
on keeping content in the wiki as well moving to Drupal. This proposal
is not about keeping/getting rid of the Google Code Wiki, Randy is
right to bring it up and remind us to reconsider this decision. But we
can decide to proceed with a Forrest -> Drupal switch for product
documentation on the merits of that decision alone. The Google Code
Wiki is a different issue.

Using Forrest it is possible to include process documents from the
Google Code Wiki transparently in the published site without polluting
the downloaded sources, whilst still having them appear in a coherent
form on the project website regardless of the location for each
document. It was also about easily producing printable documentation
and other forms, such as in project help documentation. However, the
CMS world has moved on and most of these features can be found in
decent open source CMS systems now.

Ross

>
> Cheers,
>
> Randy
>
> --
> Randy Metcalfe
>
> [4] http://code.google.com/p/simal/w/list
>
>
> 2009/12/9 Sander W G van der Waal <sander.v...@oucs.ox.ac.uk>:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The external website for Simal [1] is currently built
>> using Forrest. However, it is difficult to update documents
>> on this system and it does not currently run on a release.
>> Therefore I propose to switch to another CMS. I created
>> issue 258 for this [2].
>>
>> Ross proposed to switch to Drupal [3]. Please let me know
>> your thoughts on this issue. Should we change the CMS and
>> if so to which CMS?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sander
>>
>> [1] http://simal.oss-watch.ac.uk/
>> [2] http://code.google.com/p/simal/issues/detail?id=258
>> [3] http://www.drupal.org
>> >
>>
>
> >
>

--
Ross Gardler

OSS Watch - supporting open source in education and research
http://www.oss-watch.ac.uk

[rgardler]

I've been having a look at the new features in the Google Wiki. It has
come on a reasonable amount now.

It now has:

* basic HTML support.
* Gadget/Widget support
* Sidebar navigation

For details see http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/WikiSyntax

As such it covers most of the needs of this project.

I therefore propose a wholesale move to using the Google Wiki as outr
CMS.

Thoughts before I call a vote?

Ross

On Dec 9 2009, 4:56 pm, Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org> wrote:
> 2009/12/9 Randy Metcalfe <randy.metca...@gmail.com>:

>
> > I have no problem with the external website switching to Drupal. It's
> > a good FOSS product with a strong community.
>
> > However, with the increase of wiki pages with significant content in
> > the Google Code Simal site [4], it might help to at the same time
> > clarify (once again?) why Simal has two wikis in play.
>
> The proposal is not about a second wiki and we don't have a second
> wiki now. It is about the documentation site being managed by a CMS.
> The original intention of using Forrest was to allow easy inclusion of
> documentation with source downloads. However, Forrest is old and
> monolithic. The team have, until recently, been sleeping and it
> remains in a state of flux between a difficult to configure, but
> useful, publishing platform and a leaner meaner solution. I do not
> believe it is likely to reach the leaner solution any time soon and do
> not have a personal interest in driving that work forwards. Hence the
> suggestion for moving away from Forrest.
>
> > The "external"
> > site, initially was the demo site and the project site. Google Gode
> > was a code hosting site with mailing list facilities.
>
> The original "external" site was the documentation site. The Google
> Code Wiki was about project management and nothing more. It contains
> process descriptions etc. It does not contain any documentation. The

> demo site was never athttp://simal.oss-watch.ac.uk

> > 2009/12/9 Sander W G van der Waal <sander.vanderw...@oucs.ox.ac.uk>:

[Sander W G van der Waal]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: simal-con...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:simal-con...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of rgardler
> Sent: 08 January 2010 09:05
> To: Simal contributors
> Subject: [Simal] Re: [Proposal] Change CMS for Simal website
>
> I've been having a look at the new features in the Google
> Wiki. It has come on a reasonable amount now.
>
> It now has:
>
> * basic HTML support.
> * Gadget/Widget support
> * Sidebar navigation
>
> For details see http://code.google.com/p/support/wiki/WikiSyntax
>
> As such it covers most of the needs of this project.
>
> I therefore propose a wholesale move to using the Google Wiki
> as outr CMS.

I really like this,
- One website for all information
- No fuzz, just focus on information
- We can focus more on developing Simal, not on a CMS

Sander