How do we build Silicon Beach?

[Elias Bizannes]

We all complain. We all want it. But instead of having another rant,
how do we build the Australian tech sector to reach it's true
potential.

Chris Saad answered this question for me just then, and maybe others
can contribute. He reckons there are three key things:

1. No angels willing to take risks
2. we need to pick a location and stick to it - a corridor or area for
people to flock to
3. we need to start thinking bigger as investors and entreprenuers

Do people agree that's what's lacking for us? Let's get some
discussion. With a bit of consensus, this mailing list can then be a
catalyst for change on fixing the problems we identify.

[Chris Saad]

A few ideas off the top of my head:

We need.

A specific area so we can start to concentrate talent and accelerate execution 

A network of active angels that understands

a) how to live with risk

b) thinking globally

c) next gen web tech

d) how to do quick, valley style deals (notes etc)
 

VC's that actually have money and follow the space 

An advisory team that helps those angels make good bets 

Entrepreneurs that pay attention to global trends (and resulting opportunities) rather than reinventing CMS, CRM and Reservation systems

Less reliance on governance grants of piddly sums of money 

Techcrunch Australia

Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed payment

Co-working spaces

A youtube/google/facbeook success story

A change in attitude from hording contacts to sharing them. From working only for pay to betting on each other in return for stock

More events (social and professional)

Chris

--
Chris Saad

FaradayMedia - For Audiences of One
Particls - Are You Paying Attention?
Engagd - The Open Attention Platform
Media 2.0 Workgroup - Social, Democratic, Distributed
APML - Your Attention Profile
DataPortability - Connect, Control, Share, Remix

[mbalara]

I'm not in Australia (yet) so keep in mind that everything I write
here is more a question than a suggestion or a piece of analysis.

Provocative question: is it even possible to artificially create a
fertile startup environment?

From what I've been hearing, the necessary things that are missing in
Australia are:
a) hoardes of highly qualified people to do the work, and
b) hoardes of wealthy, informed, risk-friendly investors

These also seem to be the things that have made Silicon Valley what it
is, but nobody "decided" to make it so, did they?

People seem to agree that Silicon Valley got to be what it is due to
the presence of a few kick-ass unis and a few kick-ass companies. The
students from the unis made the companies successful, the success of
the companies created wealth, and the wealthy ex-students spun off
from the companies to create their own successful companies. So after
a while there were hoardes of wealthy ex-student, ex-employee
entrepreneurs. They became investors who understood and believed in
technology, and were willing and eager to support its growth.

Do these unis exist in Australia? What about the companies? Who are
where are they if they exist?

I truly don't want to rain on any parades. I'm certain that being more
connected and sharing more can encourage the kind of growth we're
after. But I also think that the kind of growth we're after can only
go so far without the roots (education & commerce) mentioned above.
How can we encourage *those*?

[Myles Eftos]

I can't help thinking that simply trying to emulate the Valley is a bad
idea. Think about what the valley meant when it started - it was about
technology, it was about cool ideas - it wasn't about raising money of
flicking between companies faster than the printer can pump out business
cards.

I admit, I've never been to the Valley, but all the VC talk frankly shits
me. Let's see some good tech that drives a good business - the web is a
tech-driven industry, so let's focus on innovation, not with making a quick
buck.

> Techcrunch Australia

Please no. Unless you are talking about the early days of Techcrunch when it
actually meant something.

> Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed
payment

This sounds like your putting the cart before the horse.

> Co-working spaces

This I can agree with - my time at the Silicon Beach house in Perth was
great.

> A change in attitude from hording contacts to sharing them. From working
only for pay to betting on each
> other in return for stock

Expecting people to work for nothing sucks, and will only piss the
developers you are approaching off - stock is worth nothing unless you
believe it the potential product. Have a good product that a developer wants
to build they'll do it. Developers love pet projects. Stop thinking in terms
of "We need x amount of VC funding sp I can employee y employees and get a
big office" - you can do this stuff on the cheap in spare time if you know
the right people and the right idea. I'm pretty sure how a lot of big stuff
started in the early days. Let's get back to basics!

My (rather jaded) 2c.

----------------------------------------------
Myles Eftos
Mobile: +61-409-293-183

MadPilot Productions
URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au
Phone: +618-6424-8234
Fax: +618-9467-6289

Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles!
http://www.88miles.net

[Chris Saad]

Myles - comments below - sorry but I don't agree with most of what you said :)

No offense intended in my replies though - sorry if I'm short - just in a rush!

On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Myles Eftos <my...@madpilot.com.au> wrote:

I can't help thinking that simply trying to emulate the Valley is a bad
idea. Think about what the valley meant when it started - it was about
technology, it was about cool ideas - it wasn't about raising money of
flicking between companies faster than the printer can pump out business
cards.

Cool ideas only get u so far - money is usually critical to turn cool ideas into real businesses or acquisition targets (and I'm not talking about facebook apps).

We also need our bigcos to buy more startups instead of re-inventing the wheel.

I admit, I've never been to the Valley, but all the VC talk frankly shits
me. Let's see some good tech that drives a good business - the web is a
tech-driven industry, so let's focus on innovation, not with making a quick
buck.

I've spent a lot of time in the Valley. Good tech does not drive good business. Smart apps create new opportunities. Youtube and Facebook are not about technology, they are about network effects and scale.

The web is not a tech-driven industry - it's an idea and scale driven industry.

You can only encourage innovation (with many people) by rewarding it.

Right now in Australia we reward meat and potatoes development far more than innovation and risk taking.
 

> Techcrunch Australia

Please no. Unless you are talking about the early days of Techcrunch when it
actually meant something.

Techcrunch in the early days, and Techcrunch now are both absolutely critical. They provided a running commentary on the scene and now they provide a much needed sense of drama and excitement to the space. It is essential.

We also need a Read/Write web and others

> Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed
payment

This sounds like your putting the cart before the horse.

It's really not.

Lawyers and other service providers add no value in this country - in the US lawyers actually help u get funded and they defer the payment for you.
 

> Co-working spaces

This I can agree with - my time at the Silicon Beach house in Perth was
great.

Yes these are great - very cool
 

> A change in attitude from hording contacts to sharing them. From working
only for pay to betting on each
> other in return for stock

Expecting people to work for nothing sucks, and will only piss the
developers you are approaching off - stock is worth nothing unless you
believe it the potential product. Have a good product that a developer wants
to build they'll do it. Developers love pet projects. Stop thinking in terms
of "We need x amount of VC funding sp I can employee y employees and get a
big office" - you can do this stuff on the cheap in spare time if you know
the right people and the right idea. I'm pretty sure how a lot of big stuff
started in the early days. Let's get back to basics!

This is exactly what I am talking about.

Stock is not worth nothing - stock is worth SOMETHING. We need to get past this idea in Australia that instant gratification is the only sort of gratification there is.

We need to invest in each other. That means independently wealthy people need to invest cash - and skilled people need to invest time.
This is perhaps the most important cultural difference between the valley and most of Australia.

I'm also not talking about getting a big office with the VC money. I'm talking about investing nominal (but decent) amounts in global/scalable ideas.

That means we need to be doing 500k-1m Seed rounds. 3-5m Series A etc.

My (rather jaded) 2c.

Being jaded doesn't get us anywhere in a valley style ecosystem. They thrive on optimism and big thinking there - that's why they race around all day working their butts off for the dream.

----------------------------------------------
Myles Eftos
Mobile: +61-409-293-183

MadPilot Productions
URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au
Phone: +618-6424-8234
Fax: +618-9467-6289

Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles!
http://www.88miles.net

[Myles Eftos]

On Jul 27, 9:07 pm, "Chris Saad" <chris.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Myles - comments below - sorry but I don't agree with most of what you said
> :)
>
> No offense intended in my replies though - sorry if I'm short - just in a
> rush!

None taken, although I can see that the VC/funding is going to be the
angle for this group. I leave you guys with a bit more experience in
that world to hash it out :)

[Stephen Kelly]

On Jul 27, 10:47 pm, mbalara <mbal...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I'm not in Australia (yet) so keep in mind that everything I write
> here is more a question than a suggestion or a piece of analysis.
>
> Provocative question: is it even possible to artificially create a
> fertile startup environment?

Yes - America put a man on the moon, I am sure we can get a fertile
startup environment going in Australia. One thing I have learnt from
running a company is get great people, give them great tools, and
exciting projects then let them do what they do best.

> From what I've been hearing, the necessary things that are missing in
> Australia are:
> a) hoardes of highly qualified people to do the work, and
> b) hoardes of wealthy, informed, risk-friendly investors
>
> These also seem to be the things that have made Silicon Valley what it
> is, but nobody "decided" to make it so, did they?

Australia has hordes of Highly Qualified people to do the work, but
many of the good ones are going to the US at the moment to chase the
money and opportunities there - which is fine We are trying to set it
up so that they stay here.

Australia has hordes of wealth Superannuation funds, from the forced
payment of 10% of everyone's wages into superannuation funds, but they
are adverse to risk.

If we can manage to get the financial resource to encourage
Australians to stay in Australia - and maybe get some of the Americans
to come here :) things will be good

> People seem to agree that Silicon Valley got to be what it is due to
> the presence of a few kick-ass unis and a few kick-ass companies. The
> students from the unis made the companies successful, the success of
> the companies created wealth, and the wealthy ex-students spun off
> from the companies to create their own successful companies. So after
> a while there were hoardes of wealthy ex-student, ex-employee
> entrepreneurs. They became investors who understood and believed in
> technology, and were willing and eager to support its growth.

Austria has a lot of high quality unis (and I am sure a few crap ones
as well ;) ) We have been considering the university angle and trying
to get a few of the larger ones involved.

> Do these unis exist in Australia? What about the companies? Who are
> where are they if they exist?

There has been several successful Australian companies www.wotif.com
is about 3 suburbs from where I live. Many previous Successful
startups have started in Australia and had to go to US (Google maps /
Esri mobile maps ) to name a few.

> I truly don't want to rain on any parades. I'm certain that being more
> connected and sharing more can encourage the kind of growth we're
> after. But I also think that the kind of growth we're after can only
> go so far without the roots (education & commerce) mentioned above.
> How can we encourage *those*?

I have good links into universities and see if they are interested in
the idea. I know of one or two straight away that will be interested.

[Mike Cannon-Brookes]

Sorry to be blunt mate - I'm in a rush :) (oh - was that your line?)

> We need.
>
> A specific area so we can start to concentrate talent and accelerate
> execution

Not sure what you mean here mate. We should all do mobile? iPhone? I
think building a single area-d industry is probably dangerous, unless
the area is IT + Internet?

> A network of active angels that understands
>
> a) how to live with risk
>
> b) thinking globally
>
> c) next gen web tech
>
> d) how to do quick, valley style deals (notes etc)

We have plenty of angels - we don't have high quality ideas, a network
to execute them in and most importantly - the talent to execute them
or mentor younger folks. It's a talent driven world and sadly we're
lacking. We need time to build up talent.

> VC's that actually have money and follow the space

We don't need more VCs in Australia - that's bullshit. They'll come if
there are ideas worth investing in. The number and quality of your VCs
is more a product of the environment than the other way around. Why
are there so few good Aussie VCs? Because there's so few good ideas /
teams.

> An advisory team that helps those angels make good bets

Has this ever worked anywhere else? Angels need to make fast
decisions, no committees.

> Entrepreneurs that pay attention to global trends (and resulting
> opportunities) rather than reinventing CMS, CRM and Reservation systems

Not sure what you're aiming at here - but I don't think this is fair.
We just need entrepreneurs with good ideas.

> Less reliance on governance grants of piddly sums of money

Amen brother! Get the government right out of my industry!

> Techcrunch Australia

No - this is pointless. Get more Australian startups on TC itself.
Don't try to beat 'em, join em! TC Aus is just going to have very few
readers, poor content and not enough flow / community to get it going
in the early days. Would you read it? Would I?

> Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed
> payment

Bah - this is a fallacy too. Creating an industry is hard. All of
these are simple, quick-fix solutions that won't do squat. How do you
get people to provide equity? Ask them nicely? Legislate it? Give 'em
a tax break on the gains? Bah! They'll provide equity if they see
success in other people doing it.

> Co-working spaces

Yup - this one I agree could definitely help. It's a smaller feature
of the need to just get people together more.

> A youtube/google/facbeook success story

Agree - something like this would help, especially if it was something
like Facebook that had all sorts of network effects to smaller
startups around it. The old "Nokia of Finland" argument.

> A change in attitude from hording contacts to sharing them. From working
> only for pay to betting on each other in return for stock

Not sure about the betting on each other part, supporting each other
more likely. Less tall poppies, less "Good idea mate!" platitudes,
more hard hitting advice that's supportive of each other.

> More events (social and professional)

Agreed.

Sorry for the rant, I believe there's a lot of good intentioned folk
out there - but this has the possibility of creating a whole lot of
steam and no piston.

m

> Chris
>
> On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Elias Bizannes

> <elias.bizan...@gmail.com>wrote:

[Ash Angell]

Mike, I agree with most of what you said except the one about VCs.  Australian VCs (as I am sure you will agree) a worlds apart from their US cousins.  The simple fact of the matter is (and this goes for the Australian public and business too) that IT and skilled work of this kind, is grossly undervalued in Australia.

If ther Google guys were Aussies, there is NO CHANCE Google would be what it is now.  There might not even be a Google at all.  And as far as ideas go (at the time), that idea was golden.

Aside from the fact that that technology peices and the ideas are undervalued (and I'd encourage you to point out a internet startup thats gotten a $0.5 Billion for an idea like Slide) the Australian investors, generally, seem alergic to risk.  And this is not typical of "Valley" Investors.

I do agree, however, that we need to raise the bar of conversation in this country.  Recently I feel its the obligation of founders of companies, like Atlassian, Mig33, 3eep and Faraday to make a concerted effort to support the BarCamps, the Beer 2.0's, and the other various meetups to encourage the smaller peeps to raise their bar of language and thinking.

I also feel Ross Dawson is a key player in this, and I agressively support his role, in putting the Technophiles in front of goverment and corps to make them slowly understand, that Technology Ideas are VALUABLE.

Ash

[Chris Saad]

Mike you have a very different perspective to most startups because Atlassian with actual revenue and enterprise customers etc. *Shock Horror*.

As someone who is navigating the consumer web startup universe in the valley right now - I can tell you that each of things is critically important even though their value is often subtle.

More short replies below :)

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:13 AM, Mike Cannon-Brookes <mcannon...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry to be blunt mate - I'm in a rush :) (oh - was that your line?)

> We need.
>
> A specific area so we can start to concentrate talent and accelerate
> execution

Not sure what you mean here mate. We should all do mobile? iPhone? I
think building a single area-d industry is probably dangerous, unless
the area is IT + Internet?

The value of all being in the bay area is underestimated but massively important.

Having conversations with people online vs. in University Cafe is like night and day.
 

> A network of active angels that understands
>
> a) how to live with risk
>
> b) thinking globally
>
> c) next gen web tech
>
> d) how to do quick, valley style deals (notes etc)

We have plenty of angels - we don't have high quality ideas, a network
to execute them in and most importantly - the talent to execute them
or mentor younger folks. It's a talent driven world and sadly we're
lacking. We need time to build up talent.

I don't know any of them. And I don't know anyone that knows any of them.

Maybe, though, I am just not cool enough :)

Can you name some of these people for us like we could for the valley superstar angels?
 

> VC's that actually have money and follow the space

We don't need more VCs in Australia - that's bullshit. They'll come if
there are ideas worth investing in. The number and quality of your VCs
is more a product of the environment than the other way around. Why
are there so few good Aussie VCs? Because there's so few good ideas /
teams.

Again, there are one or two good ideas here - I know for a fact - but the VCs wait for revenue and other risk reducing factors. They simply don't take the risks need to be taken.

I agree there is a lack of good teams - but we need to start mentoring and rewarding teams for taking risks rather than working in bigcos.

And as I said somewhere else bigcos could also start buying more startups.
 

> An advisory team that helps those angels make good bets

Has this ever worked anywhere else? Angels need to make fast
decisions, no committees.

There is an implicit advisory team in the Valley of people who get calls to do due diligence on opportunities.

Not talking about a committee of course.

> Entrepreneurs that pay attention to global trends (and resulting
> opportunities) rather than reinventing CMS, CRM and Reservation systems

Not sure what you're aiming at here - but I don't think this is fair.
We just need entrepreneurs with good ideas.

Not aiming at anyone :)

I've been guilty of making a Site CMS and CRM system!

Not talking about Wikis though - that was perfect timing Mike :)

> Less reliance on governance grants of piddly sums of money

Amen brother! Get the government right out of my industry!

You agree with me here so I will leave u alone haha
 

> Techcrunch Australia

No - this is pointless. Get more Australian startups on TC itself.
Don't try to beat 'em, join em! TC Aus is just going to have very few
readers, poor content and not enough flow / community to get it going
in the early days. Would you read it? Would I?

Sure we need to get on TC. But a blog that takes the pulse of the local community would also be very helpful. A watercooler that we can all talk about is an underestimated by critical aspect of the ecosystem.

TC UK is a great model - the bigger news makes it to the main blog.

If only we knew some Australians at TC who could help launch TC AU :)

 

> Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed
> payment

Bah - this is a fallacy too. Creating an industry is hard. All of
these are simple, quick-fix solutions that won't do squat. How do you
get people to provide equity? Ask them nicely? Legislate it? Give 'em
a tax break on the gains? Bah! They'll provide equity if they see
success in other people doing it.

And who's going to break that ice?
 

> Co-working spaces

Yup - this one I agree could definitely help. It's a smaller feature
of the need to just get people together more.

Everyone seems to agree on this one - lets set one up. Where you want to start?
 

> A youtube/google/facbeook success story

Agree - something like this would help, especially if it was something
like Facebook that had all sorts of network effects to smaller
startups around it. The old "Nokia of Finland" argument.

I volunteer Atlassian as poster child 1 :)

But again - you guys have real revenue *cries*

> A change in attitude from hording contacts to sharing them. From working
> only for pay to betting on each other in return for stock

Not sure about the betting on each other part, supporting each other
more likely. Less tall poppies, less "Good idea mate!" platitudes,
more hard hitting advice that's supportive of each other.

Nuh we do enough 'good on ya mate' - now we need more 'good on ya mate, here let me introduce you to 10 other people who could help and let me do these 5 actual things to help you out'.

One day I can share some stories about the extraordinary generosity of the people I have met in the valley.
 

> More events (social and professional)

Agreed.

Sorry for the rant, I believe there's a lot of good intentioned folk
out there - but this has the possibility of creating a whole lot of
steam and no piston.

Steam is OK. Where's there's smoke there is fire. Or someone rushes in to light things up.

I've had a little experience with that :)  (not being a pyro!)
 

[Cait]

Huge amounts of cheap land, cheap housing, zoning for tech companies
only, internet infrastructure, university nearby as well as high tech
hardware companies.

Keep in mind the US Silicon Valley took 40 years to build and was a
result of the recovery after World War II.

Not many Universities will be in a position like that again.

[Elias Bizannes]

Fair analysis Cait and everyone else, but also recognise we live in a very different era. Why does it need to be one area? The Internet has brought a communications transformation, and the benefit we have with centralisation, *is* the communications. In fact, everything we have already exists - we just need better recognises of the forums, the people. Better knowledge sharing, better collaboration.

 

Multiple communities that have strong ties with each other and cross pollinate each other is more effective than one isolated place full of geeks. Looking at this list this morning, it's become clear to me that the Brisbane boys obviously don't know the Sydney girls are creating a co-working space, who I know was partly after inspiration from the Perth mum's. Up until a month ago, I've always wondered where the hell is Adelaides community - and only recently have I realised there is one. We need to be spreading ideas and creating awareness of who exists with what capabilities and experience.
 

When I refer to the term silicon beach, it's a metaphor for an industry. Australia is an island, islands have beaches - voila. We don't need nor should we replicate the valley, only learn from them what works and what doesn't work.
 

[Elias Bizannes]

Can I just say I am sick of the VC vs entrepreneur debates. I hear them, see them, read them all the time and it's always the same crap.

 

You guys are both right. But both wrong.

 

If I was to start a fruitshop, I need to invest capital. I get a bank loan, which to be honest, is a cheaper loan than VC money (as that is all it is). No one denies initial capital is needed, but the blame game that it's the small markets fault, that's it's the risk averse investors fault, that it's the moronic entrepreneurs fault - there's no point to it.

[Ash Angell]

I dont agree Elias.  Possibly the main reason the valley works is becasue of the high concentration of technology people (investors, startups, companies, corps and enterpreuers) all in one place.  Its so localised, that even people who found startups in finance rich places like New York have the same problems (albeit marginally smaller) as getting a startup funded and running as we do in Australia.

Despite the communication chanels that the web offers, nothing beats face-to-face daily meetings with like minded people (with influence).  It's made an even bigger problem in Australia becasue we're so diverse, in so many places, spread very, very thinly.

Ash

[Myles Eftos]

> Service providers willing to provide services for equity and differed payment

This line was making me think last night as I was trying to get to
sleep.

I don't think VC money is the first thing that people should be
looking for get their idea off the ground. This is the web. The
barrier to entry, is low - by far the biggest hurdle is getting the
system developed. So why don't people treat developers like VCs? If a
developer going to be investing my time to work on a system for stock
options, then the developer should be seen as being in the same
position as an investor. Sure they aren't injecting cash, but they are
injecting something far more valuable: time. You can't earn that back
after a bad investment.

Let me play the following scenario out, and let me know where the flaw
in my logic is.

Let's call the developer Kim. Kim does client work as a freelancer and
charges himself out at $100/hr. Arnold approached Kim with his
business idea, which Kim thinks has legs. Arnold then sells $50,000
worth of "stock" to Kim in return for 500 hours of initial "seed"
development of 12 months. (This works out to roughly 2 hours per day
from Kim - he has a family to support, so needs to ensure he is
keeping up his other contract work through out the year). After the
time is up and the site is live and Arnold starts selling, Kim can
then commit more hours based on the worth of the company, as he owns
part of it.

So you have no VC breathing down your neck (yet), you know your
developer has a vested interest in making it work, but they are still
able to get on with their life, and you free up any cash reserves you
would normally spend on a developer and you spend less time trying to
sell the thing to investors and more time selling it to customers.

[Chris Saad]

Myles this is exactly what I am talking about.

We employ this model at Faraday Media. We all consider ourselves investors in the company.

Chris

[Ash Angell]

Hi Myles, your exactly right, but only to a point.

This is initally how Faraday started, and for many of the things it needs, it still does.  However, try to find a company (or even a single developer) willing to do it - its far easier said than done.  The reality of the situation is (and what several people have already raised) is that so little of it happens.  Certianly not enough to support the entire developer eco-system.  And I don't beleive the strength of the idea is to always to blame.

Ash

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 10:28 AM, Myles Eftos <my...@madpilot.com.au> wrote:

[Myles Eftos]

> Hi Myles, your exactly right, but only to a point.
>
> This is initally how Faraday started, and for many of the things it needs,
it still does. However, try to
> find a company (or even a single developer) willing to do it - its far
easier said than done. The reality
> of the situation is (and what several people have already raised) is that
so little of it happens.
> Certianly not enough to support the entire developer eco-system. And I
don't beleive the strength of the
> idea is to always to blame.

Ok, so regardless of the number of VCs willing to throw money in the pot,
the underlying issue is the shortage of quality developers? Maybe this is
what we should be concentrating on? What do we need to do, to *create*
quality developers? Is using overseas resources the answer or is this akin
to taking the system out of Australia? Of course outsourcing development has
it's own challenges, so at the end of the day, building a development
culture here is the way to go.

So the question is how do we do that? :)

[Tyler Willis]

If you'll allow me to change the nature of the discussion slightly, I
will:

It would seem the trend on tech entrepreneurship is moving towards
distributed "hubs" -- New York is a great example of an emergent hub
and there are many others that are emerging as great places to build
tech companies.

This is good for the ecosystem (more access for more people will
result in more activity), but does have some negatives.

By becoming more distributed we are forcing each hub to build new
resources for entrepreneurs.

Let's say you can build an incredible tech scene in a Perth over the
next two years, but for some reason you just can't find interested
local angels (at least for a few more years, until there are success
stories).

In the above scenario, you should be able to import angels to speed up
the development of the hub and provide examples of success to local
investors

I see a need to have several "super-connecters" that can connect
resources with purposes between hubs.

If we can figure out this connection problem, then solving the problem
of creating a thriving tech hub becomes building and testing a
blueprint that you can replicate world-wide.

Cheers,
Tyler

[Ash Angell]

I think there is a lot of developer talent in Australia.  But I also think that a part of the proiblem is that the developers are not on the big salaries like they are in the US and the UK.  They don't ussually have a large enough nest egg, for them to survive on if they leave their 9-5 and work on a startup for 6 - 12 months.

Ash

[Myles Eftos]

> I think there is a lot of developer talent in Australia. But I also think
that a part of the proiblem is
> that the developers are not on the big salaries like they are in the US
and the UK. They don't ussually
> have a large enough nest egg, for them to survive on if they leave their
9-5 and work on a startup for 6 -
> 12 months.

Wholeheartedly agree there :)

However, there is a pretty decent freelancer community - these are the sorts
of people that can afford to spend a couple of hours working on new ideas,
whilst still being able to pull a salary from other contracts at the same
time.

If we can encourage developers (and designers) to go out on their own, it
would add to the resource pool. The co-working space thing here helps. In
the last month of so of the Silicon Beach house here in Perth, we had a
group of designers and developers who were constantly flicking each other
work - it almost became a virtual company, as the whole was greater than the
sum of the parts, but everyone was still independent and so was free to take
as much of the work as needed. It meant they could still eat and pay rent,
but they had the flexibility of their choice of hours.

To make this happen we would need:

1. Co-working space - get estabilished startups with free desks to rent them
out, which has the added benefit that the resource pool will come to you.
This would lessen the risk for the lease holder, as they would have the
office regardless (Silicon Beach house died because we couldn't sustain a
decent number of residents, and the guy with the lease got stung with a
really expensive lease, and wasn't particularly happy about it).

2. Business mentoring - the hardest bit about freelancing is the running the
business part.

3. Availability of work - make sure these guys know the work exists. I'm
talking bread and butter short term stuff that pays money - such as brochure
sites, short term dev projects etc. Getting a decent cash flow means you can
go out and take on "equity" jobs.

[Elias Bizannes]

I am involved in a non-profit called Project Australia, and an idea that they are pushing me to take ownership of, is a "skills database".

 

Seeing these discussions develop (I'm trying to ignore them because of work, but god damn I got pulled in) I think this could be something to action.

 

I like Myle's points below about what we need. Building on that, maybe this could be an idea: we create a dabatase of people in the industry WITH skills.

 

For example, I've done advanced courses on pivot tables. Not exactly something I'd put on my resume, but in a virtual company scenario, I can help someone...just like how at my firm, I pick up the phone and someone shows me. In addition to meetups where people get to know each other, and co-working spaces where independents can collaborate - let's take it a stepo further.

 

Today for example, Paul Jones asked me about some tax advice. The guys knows me like anyone else, but because of the discussions on this mailing list, he realised "oh yeah, Elias knows accounting". It actually is something pretty simple, even though he was given the impression from his accountant it's difficult. I gave him an answer straight away - and if I didn't have an answer, I could have pointed him to people that can give him one. If I was listed in the skills database, it would be that I am a chartered accountant and have expertise in financial reporting, audit, management reporting, taxation. Someone could then ping me like Paul did - aware that I can help them - and point them in the right direction

 

Thoughts? I could organise some funding to pay on an hourly rate if people think it's a bit rich to ask for a volunteer effort

 

PS. Some great discussions here -  I really appreciate everyone taking the time to contribute. As long as we don't take things personally with heated debates, the ability for people in the sector to discuss  ideas and then idntify courses of action is just awesome.
 

[Paul Jones]

In theory, you could take this a step further, and do something similar to the Barter Card used by tradies (does that still exist?).

The Skills Database could list people, and there could be a mechanism whereby you could barter their employment. That would then be slightly more granular that Equity, and possibly seen as more valuable.

[Kim Heras]

My 2c over at TechNation Australia -
http://www.technation.com.au/2008/07/28/5-steps-we-can-take-to-improve-the-aussie-tech-startup-industry/

Sorry to push the conversation across two separate sites - just wanted
to get the readers up to speed on the discussions here.

[Rob Sharp]

2008/7/28 Elias Bizannes <elias.b...@gmail.com>:

> I am involved in a non-profit called Project Australia, and an idea that
> they are pushing me to take ownership of, is a "skills database".
>
> Seeing these discussions develop (I'm trying to ignore them because of work,
> but god damn I got pulled in) I think this could be something to action.
>
> I like Myle's points below about what we need. Building on that, maybe this
> could be an idea: we create a dabatase of people in the industry
> WITH skills.
>

That reminds me of this initiative from a while back. The copyright
year is still listed as 2005 so I think it's mothballed. Sounds
similar to what you're after, though.

http://openskills.org/

--
Rob Sharp

blog: http://blog.sharp.id.au
twitter: http://twitter.com/quannum

This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private

[mbalara]

> If we can encourage developers (and designers) to go out on their own, it
> would add to the resource pool.

As a soon to be in Sydney, soon to be freelance designer, here's a
quick thought: wouldn't an online jobs board help here? Something
like:
http://authenticjobs.com/ or
http://jobs.37signals.com/

If there *are* quality designers and developers in Australia, but
we're just spread out too thin and have a hard time finding the right
clients & projects, and they can't find us too easily either, why not
use the medium we're building to connect with each other better?

Anyone interested and capable of building something like that with me?
Let me know.

[Myles Eftos]

The Australian Web Industry Assocaition (AWIA -
http://www.webindustry.asn.au) is currently building one. It'll probably be
up in the next few months (hopefully :))

----------------------------------------------
Myles Eftos
Mobile: +61-409-293-183

MadPilot Productions
URL: http://www.madpilot.com.au
Phone: +618-6424-8234
Fax: +618-9467-6289

Try our time tracking system: 88 Miles!
http://www.88miles.net

[Stephen Collins]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:35 PM, mbalara <mba...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> As a soon to be in Sydney, soon to be freelance designer, here's a
> quick thought: wouldn't an online jobs board help here? Something
> like:
> http://authenticjobs.com/ or
> http://jobs.37signals.com/

I'd suggest that the guys at Happener probably have a decent chunk of
the right people on their books. They're mnostly Sydney-focussed, but
there's no reason that needs to remain the case.

Happener might need some help to grow any bigger, but there's no
reason they can't. And they are very good at matching people and jobs.

Steve
--
Stephen Collins
Cell +61 410 680722
Skype trib22
www.twitter.com/trib
www.linkedin.com/in/stephencollins

www.acidlabs.org

acidlabs - strategies, tools and processes to empower knowledge workers

[mbalara]

> I'd suggest that the guys at Happener probably have a decent chunk of
> the right people on their books. They're mnostly Sydney-focussed, but
> there's no reason that needs to remain the case.

Yup, Happener has some people, but their site doesn't exactly make it
easy to post or find a job. We need easier posting, searching,
sorting, alerts, etc. like the sites mentioned above. Happener's a
good start, but the site could be so much more!

[Mick Liubinskas]

* There is more than enough angels and massive amounts of money. We
lack experienced management teams.
* If you keep it focused, you shouldn't need much money to get
started.
* VC's invest in expansion, not ideas.
* Coworking, events, wikis, forums - all good, keep em coming.
* It can't be Australia wide. We're too small, and fragmented.
Electronic comms can never replace meetings, coffees, chats, beers in
the formative stages.
* Stop making excuses. If the idea really is that good, and you are
really that good, then nothing can stop you, but also no one is going
to give it to you on a platter.
* Stop looking to the valley. yes, it's Disneyland, but we're not
building disneyland. Look at Israel, Wellington, Barcelona, Cape Town,
Shanghai, Dublin.
* There are lots of people who will work for equity, but generally, if
you're giving away equity, it's because it isn't worth much. Yet, of
course, but still...
* Be patient, I agree with the comment that it took 40 years for the
Valley to grow, and the investors now are 3rd generation. That's some
good history.

Great stuff crew.

Mick

On Jul 28, 3:28 pm, "Rob Sharp" <r...@sharp.id.au> wrote:
> 2008/7/28 Elias Bizannes <elias.bizan...@gmail.com>:

[Mike Cannon-Brookes]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Ash Angell <ash...@faradaymedia.com> wrote:
> Mike, I agree with most of what you said except the one about VCs.
> Australian VCs (as I am sure you will agree) a worlds apart from their US
> cousins. The simple fact of the matter is (and this goes for the Australian
> public and business too) that IT and skilled work of this kind, is grossly
> undervalued in Australia.
>
> If ther Google guys were Aussies, there is NO CHANCE Google would be what it
> is now. There might not even be a Google at all. And as far as ideas go
> (at the time), that idea was golden.

You won't find me disagreeing with any of the above mate :) I'm quite
well known for my opinions that Aussie VCs are generally more like
later stage PE investors - with a hugely reduce appetite for risk to
US VCs - but there are reasons for that. The market isn't as big here,
they're not investing from funds which are as big, there's far less
ideas etc. It's not all the VCs fault - to say that is to oversimplify
- it's more environmental than that.

> I do agree, however, that we need to raise the bar of conversation in this
> country. Recently I feel its the obligation of founders of companies, like
> Atlassian, Mig33, 3eep and Faraday to make a concerted effort to support the
> BarCamps, the Beer 2.0's, and the other various meetups to encourage the
> smaller peeps to raise their bar of language and thinking.

Completely agree. That's why you've seen Atlassian sponsor (every?)
BarCamps up and down. We also sponsor a whole series of user groups,
meetups and such around the city!

m

[thegreenguy]

The goal to create a Australian tech industry is good. India talked
about this for many years but just struggling. Silicon Valley is a
special case which may never be replicated.

However, there will be many things to learn from them.

One, technology and startups are connected with universities and
education.

Two, Ideas matter and not money. Money follows good ideas.

Three, the biggest one is the attitude of accepting failure. Out of a
multitude of failures comes success. This may be the biggest learning.

Four, networking.

Five, people matter. However, it can be debated that there are always
good people everywhere. It is the environment which makes them big/
successful.

We need to bring the same bedrock principles and collaborate and work
here and surely Australia can have its Googles of the world.

Cheers
Suhit
www.worldisgreen.com.

[Maxine Sherrin]

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 5:35 PM, mbalara <mbal...@googlemail.com>

wrote:
> As a soon to be in Sydney, soon to be freelance designer, here's a

> quick thought: wouldn't an onlinejobsboard help here? Something

> like:
>http://authenticjobs.com/or
>http://jobs.37signals.com/

John and I have been doing a bit of a soft launch of Web Directions
Jobs over the last week, leading up to a full announcement next week.
Matt more or less sums up what we're trying to do with this board
above - create a no-BS space in which the local industry can connect
up -

No harm in spreading the word round here though at this stage :)

http://jobs.webdirections.org/

It's a free jobs board open to anyone looking to hire people in the
web industry. Anyone can post, even agencies, the only condition being
that the actual employer must be named.