stammering to get at reduced syllables

[don cherry]

I'm addressing this to Roslyn and/or Piers. I know you guys are really busy, but if you get a chance I'd love to hear a little more about the technique I believe Ros has mentioned once or twice where you have the students sort of stammer or stutter to get at reduced syllables. I was going to message you guys privately, but thought it might be better to address you on this forum so that others might benefit from any description of this technique. Again, I know you're both very busy, so don't bother yourselves too much with this. Just if you get a chance. Thanks.

[Roslyn Young]

Hi Don,

I'm glad you've asked about schwa. I think this is the best idea for teaching pronunciation that we've come up with. It's what can shift pronunciation from not very good to much better quite quickly.

Piers and I made a video about it that you can find here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnobiZM9zMs

On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 at 06:48, don cherry <hirosh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm addressing this to Roslyn and/or Piers. I know you guys are really busy, but if you get a chance I'd love to hear a little more about the technique I believe Ros has mentioned once or twice where you have the students sort of stammer or stutter to get at reduced syllables. I was going to message you guys privately, but thought it might be better to address you on this forum so that others might benefit from any description of this technique. Again, I know you're both very busy, so don't bother yourselves too much with this. Just if you get a chance. Thanks.

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[Piers Messum]

And for those who would rather read about this, the ideas are written up in:

Teaching schwa: using intentional 'stuttering' on consonants to improve English pronunciation

Best wishes

Piers

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[don cherry]

Fantastic! Thanks so much!

[Eric L]

HI all, this is indeed a very useful and efficient way of presenting the "non-dynamic" aspect of the schwa, especially with French adults who are always too much stuck both to the prosody of French and to the bad habit of speaking English as they would read it with a French "mould".

By the way, following the link to Ros and Piers' s video, here's another example of opposition Closed transition/Open transition :

prayed  / parade

Cheers

Eric

[Cedric Lefebvre]

I like the idea of working on stress alongside the work on reduction, to create the biggest possible contrast. (A picture of Piers showing the relative height of a peak compared to a canyon just came to my mind) And I find that belly pushes do wonders to get my students spend most of their breast/energy on the main stress (once they're used to it, just a hand on my belly, or hinting at a belly picture if it's online, and they know what to do/feel).

I'm not an English teacher though, and even if I manage to help some people learn to say a few things in English, I'm aware of how limited I am. I help mostly beginners, and while on charts 1 and 2, I run into all sorts of problems with reductions. A common problem is that I hear some students say: "take a blue rod and give it t. me", but if I ask them to point, they usually point "...and give it me", because they were just pronouncing an exaggerated /t/ at the end of "it" and forgetting the "to" altogether. So, I use (yellow) schwas instead, thinking that they'll switch to open transitions later on, when they feel more secure about what they're saying and they can say it in one go without stumbling. But maybe that's going to turn into bad habits? Maybe an English teacher wouldn't 'accept' the sentences with the schwa? I'm not sure what to think.

One more thing that might be too unrelated, but similarly I don't find it very natural when working on charts 1/2 and for instance voicing the first /t/ in "put it here". I believe it's because they don't reduce the vowels enough for it to sound right? Or they still separate the words too much? It's just a bit complicated to have them only voice the /t/ when they're saying all the words more fluidly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm sure it's invaluable to get the students to reduce/stress properly if they've had years of English without the pronunciation part, but it feels strange with beginners students speaking slowly and picking each word carefully and hesitantly. So I'm curious as to what others do, and wondering whether I'm just teaching something wrong that will take lots of effort to be corrected later on, or if it's not as important for beginners as it is with more advanced students.

Cédric Lefebvre

Creating Within You a Mastery of French  

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[Michiko Watabe]

Hello all,

I think it is valuable to introduce the concept of the schwa sounds at the beginning of learning English. There are no natural English conversations without schwa sounds and linking, and learners will be constantly exposed to them.

 

When learners are unaware of schwa sounds and linking, they often encounter problems with listening comprehension. In my experience teaching textbook classes focused on speaking and listening, I have repeatedly observed these issues due to schwa sounds and linking. For example, in a beginner listening practice:

A: I can’t open this window.

B: I’ll see if I can open it.

Students could catch the emphasized ‘can’t’ but struggled with the ‘can’ in the second sentence, which is pronounced with a schwa sound. This issue also persisted in intermediate-level classes.

 

As an English learner myself, I was unaware of schwa sounds for a long time. After learning about them and starting to produce them, I noticed a significant improvement in my comprehension of spoken English. I wished I had known about them earlier. Being able to produce schwa sounds means I repeatedly listen to my own schwa sounds, making it easier to recognize them when hearing similar sounds from others.

 

I’ve started to help my students in my beginner class. They first practice each word in a sentence clearly to ensure they understand what they are saying. Then, I guide them to use schwa sounds, such as in ‘can’ by introducing the yellow dot sound. By practicing step-by-step, they recognise the differences and begin to sound more like native speakers of English with that specific sentence. I find myself saying, “Are you native speakers of English?” which makes them smile widely.

 

“Stuttering” is a great tool for me to practice schwa sounds. When I try to use it in class, how to apply it is a bit difficult for me. So, I’m learning now. 

Michiko Watabe

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[Laurence Howells]

This is a difficult debate for me to join, because I never meet ‘beginners’ in English. Everyone seems to have had lots of English.  

There’s no doubt though that working on reduction and stress makes the biggest difference in people’s English in the quickest time.  And getting them reducing syllables and joining words together (‘liaison’ probably isn’t technically the right word, but that’s how I think of it) completely transforms their sound.

And as Michiko さん says as their ears (and minds) get used to how they themselves and their classmates sound when they talk like this then their listening abilities are also transformed.