What do you think about the International Shogi Forum?

[andrei....@gmail.com]

It would be interesting to hear the community’s thoughts on the Japan Shogi Association’s efforts to promote shogi globally — especially through the International Shogi Forum (ISF). How effective do you think the current ISF format is? Does this festival genuinely help shogi’s global spread, does it fall short of its goals, or could it possibly even hinder progress? Share your thoughts on this.

The first two issues of Ginkammuri Magazine briefly touched on this topic through interviews and articles. Here are a few quotes as examples:

Sergei Korchitsky, 5-dan
“Today, this [the ISF main tournament] is the only serious global tournament in the shogi world. Some even consider it an amateur world championship, but that is not the case. I prefer to call a spade a spade. This is the world blitz championship for non-Japanese players… Unfortunately, at the moment, there is no world championship in shogi in the generally accepted sense. There is no unified global player classification, as there is no international federation. Shogi is the only major mind game that doesn’t have an international federation… Unfortunately, I don’t see the Japanese having a clear strategy for promoting shogi globally.”

Vincent Tanyan, 5-dan
[comparing the shogi world to other games with well-established international federations, prize pools, sponsored tournament invites, and so on]
“In amateur shogi, I only know of one similar benefit: a trip to Japan for the ISF, held every three years. But the selection criteria vary widely across countries. To qualify from Belarus, you have to move mountains, whereas to go from, say Iceland, it's enough to simply know how the pieces move… Why bother fostering competition [by developing local communities] when you can keep getting free trips to Japan for years?”

Sergei Lysenka, 3-dan
“I was eagerly anticipating new experiences and meeting new people [at the ISF], but in the end, I found myself at a closed gathering of dear old friends where everyone had known each other for years… I remember being very surprised not to see any local players at the ISF’s open tournament… However, after checking the event’s rules, I realized this was a deliberate policy by the organizers. For the few events where locals were allowed, the participation guidelines explicitly stated that while Japanese players were welcome, the forum’s main purpose was “international exchange” and “interaction among non-Japanese players.” Apparently, the organizers genuinely believe that non-Japanese shogi enthusiasts are isolated, unfamiliar with one another, and rarely get to meet. They seem to view the festival as an opportunity to give us a chance to interact exclusively with each other, at least once every three years.”

Best regards,

Andrei Lysenka

[Shigeru trentasis]

Missatge de andrei....@gmail.com <andrei....@gmail.com> del dia dv., 11 d’abr. 2025 a les 19:29:

Hello All. Nice to be back here somehow ...

It would be interesting to hear the community’s thoughts on the Japan Shogi Association’s efforts to promote shogi globally — especially through the International Shogi Forum (ISF). How effective do you think the current ISF format is? Does this festival genuinely help shogi’s global spread, does it fall short of its goals, or could it possibly even hinder progress? Share your thoughts on this.

I would like to apport my 2 cents on this topic. [ Basicly, my own experience with Shogi, since I've learned how to play it ]

 

Ages, since I got a chance to participate in the ISF. Was back in 2011, the 5th ISF. Which was hold in Rueil Malmaison, (France). where, as far as I know, Spain was participating in it for the very first time. At that time, "Shogi scene" in Spain was pratically NIL. ZERO!, NON existent.  >__<u

I remark! Practically, none even Japanese community living in Barcelona where had organised players. Less to say a "kind" of a shogi club.  TT__TT 
At least, nothing that I could trace back on past years prior 2006 (when I first learned the very rules). 
Contrary, We have a nearly "30 year old" Igo「囲碁」national association; Federated with the 'European igo (Go) association', with over more than 200 active Spanish players registered. (btw, I'd learned how to play GO back in 2000, at a "Manga & Anime convention").

The first two issues of Ginkammuri Magazine briefly touched on this topic through interviews and articles. Here are a few quotes as examples:

Sergei Korchitsky, 5-dan
“Today, this [the ISF main tournament] is the only serious global tournament in the shogi world. Some even consider it an amateur world championship, but that is not the case. I prefer to call a spade a spade. This is the world blitz championship for non-Japanese players… Unfortunately, at the moment, there is no world championship in shogi in the generally accepted sense. There is no unified global player classification, as there is no international federation. Shogi is the only major mind game that doesn’t have an international federation… Unfortunately, I don’t see the Japanese having a clear strategy for promoting shogi globally.”

Quote: "... the ONLY SERIOUS global tournament in the world." 

Really? 

What make you say so? if not much to ask for ...

        I am pretty sure the WOSC-ESC, is quite SERIOUS one. And the efforts put by, any and all of the previous Eurupean organizations hosting it since 1985 in their local countries is nothing to laugh of, but to praise! (^__^).
We might lack on founds, resources,... but not definetely in ENTUSIASM. At the ery minimun... 12, out of 10.

[while 'ESC', later; ESC-WOSC, had been organized nearly every year for over 30 year now... while ISF, had just nine (9) editions in LESS than 30 years... (since 1.999?)]

Right, since your records (I believe; https://fesashogi.eu/old/index.php?mid=5&player=Sergey+Korchitsky) are from 2003, I can guess you had played at a few of them ! ? (o__0)

 

Vincent Tanyan, 5-dan
[comparing the shogi world to other games with well-established international federations, prize pools, sponsored tournament invites, and so on]
“In amateur shogi, I only know of one similar benefit: a trip to Japan for the ISF, held every three years. But the selection criteria vary widely across countries. To qualify from Belarus, you have to move mountains, whereas to go from, say Iceland, it's enough to simply know how the pieces move… Why bother fostering competition [by developing local communities] when you can keep getting free trips to Japan for years?”

... mmmm >__<
That's partly not true. Since I do not know how do Belarus national organization rules the Preliminar ISF Tournamet. But, I do know how it (was at the time I was more involve is Shogi promotion). 
EVERY invited COUNTRY, Had to host a Preliminar tournament between the dates they get the ISF Info, until end of August the SAME YEAR of the ISF... ( I have organized it myself the very first one hosted in Barcelona, back in 2011. And had colaborated with the next two following (2014 & 2017) editions. And the "rules" where exctly the same for every Country.

The main diference? became with the amount, and strength of the national Country players. As for 2011, With myself we where JUST FIVE (5) Players in Spain. And yes! >__< ALL of us amateurs, that had just know the VERY BASIC rules of the game at the time. (Our only learning materials? a basic article at an older wesite in Spanish language, and the very basic info onto the Wikipedia. + few international resources in English. (Btw, at that time my knowledge of English was even WORSEN than my knowledge of Shogi ... )  XDDD

  >> [Personally, my very "first" Contact with shogi was in 1993, TV anime "Ranma Nibun no ichi", or 'Ranma 1/2'] But! at the time it was 'baptised (re-branded)'by the translators as: "Ajedrez domino (Dominoes-chess)" ... so you can guess how stupidilly hard was to find any trace of the game... until 2004-2005 (?) or so, it apeared in "Naruto" manga. (or at least, it reached Spain about those dates). So first time I had learned Shogi rules, and how to play. It was in mid 2006. Since then, I decided to put my efforts into promote it as hard as I could. TT__TT

Sergei Lysenka, 3-dan
“I was eagerly anticipating new experiences and meeting new people [at the ISF], but in the end, I found myself at a closed gathering of dear old friends where everyone had known each other for years… I remember being very surprised not to see any local players at the ISF’s open tournament… However, after checking the event’s rules, I realized this was a deliberate policy by the organizers. For the few events where locals were allowed, the participation guidelines explicitly stated that while Japanese players were welcome, the forum’s main purpose was “international exchange” and “interaction among non-Japanese players.” Apparently, the organizers genuinely believe that non-Japanese shogi enthusiasts are isolated, unfamiliar with one another, and rarely get to meet. They seem to view the festival as an opportunity to give us a chance to interact exclusively with each other, at least once every three years.”

He, he, he. XDDD
The only one time I'd participated in the ISF, it was hosted in Europe. So the rare where the Japanese people, a part of the fewer PROFFESSIONALS attending. "Y. Habu" one of them. (~__^)

Quote: 

It would be interesting to hear the community’s thoughts on the Japan Shogi Association’s efforts to promote shogi globally — especially through the International Shogi Forum (ISF). How effective do you think the current ISF format is? Does this festival genuinely help shogi’s global spread, does it fall short of its goals, or could it possibly even hinder progress? Share your thoughts on this.

In resume: 

1.- How effective do you think the current ISF format is? 

Hard to say. As my experience with it is quite the older one. >_<u
... and worse, never been in Japan for it. T__T

But what I can say is; Their 'Grants' for travel to Japan, and have the stay paid for, during the few days it last. Are definetly one of the biggest atractive to get Strong at the game.

How can we get that many FUNDS, for FESA to reach somethig similar?

2.- Does this festival genuinely help shogi’s global spread, does it fall short of its goals, or could it possibly even hinder progress?

I can't say it does a big help in spread the knowledge of shogi around the world. But definetly it does not hinder it. It's more just like another small step, into a closed world. But!

Why has to be 'Japan Shogi Association' the main one who had to carry the Shogi "promotion" all around the world?
Who was who promored the fondess for Chess?, How, why it was that we got the FIDE, but still not after more than a century a "Global Shogi organization"!?
Why can not join efforts FIDE with NSR (JSA?) to made it happen?

I can assume that, near 80% of Shogi entusiats (regular players) are also chess players. (I'm on the lower 20% group) XDDD

What do we lack for a "GSO" is, people invested in spreading the fodness of this great game.

as E.G.; Here in the UK (same as in Spain, far as I know) ...  We have few players who enjoy themself with the game...
but a big lack on people who want to espend his free time in teaching it to other people.

Once one of the greates "Shogi community" the UK = (England, Wales, Scotland + Nothern Ireland. 4 whole COUNTRIES) ... with just few players in one of them ... 16 years living here... and still, I dont know any other Shogi Club in the UK than the "London SC".

...

Provably even worse, in Spain ... with three (3) times the extension of the whole UK ... and a fewer players, mainly concentrated in Barcelona (Catalonia) ... If "Catalunya" become independent Country from "Spain" The mojority (80% +/-) of "Spanish" players will become "Catalan" players instead. And FESA, will have to change "Spain", for "Catalunya" as a Member Country.
With "Portugal"... being the other Country in the Iberian Peninsule. Has even less players that us (Spanish) ...  >_<

How to reverse that?
When Brasil, has a lot more (land) players who also Speak "Portuguese"

And while more than 20 Countries in the whole wolrd had "Spanish" as a mother tonge, (plus it being the 2nd spoken language in the USA) 

...  the Whole "Spanish speakers community" in the world can be counted by few more than a hundred players. (lucky are we, if we count over 200) And the people who made it possible, can be counted with the fingers in both hands (less than 10).  U___U

I guess, is not much different in any other Country... Isn't?

Regards, Efrén R.

 

Best regards,

Andrei Lysenka

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[Sergej Korchitskij]

Hello everyone! I received a question from our dearest friend Efren that I would be happy to answer.

Quote: "... the ONLY SERIOUS global tournament in the world." 

Really? 

What make you say so? if not much to ask for ...

Dear Efren! Of course, you ask for little and I will answer easily. A global tournament is not the same as a European one. A serious global tournament without champions from the USA, Brazil and China is at least a serious European tournament. In my opinion, the difference is obvious. Therefore, the ISF, of course, has no analogues.

And your second question, which is not addressed to me, but I will allow myself to answer.

Why has to be 'Japan Shogi Association' the main one who had to carry the Shogi "promotion" all around the world?

Of course, they can, but they shouldn't. The first step - the creation of an international federation - is a matter of pure goodwill of national shogi associations. And no Japanese will do this instead of the community of like-minded people that exists in many countries of the world.

Best wishes,

Sergej Korchitskij

сб, 12 апр. 2025 г. в 01:39, Shigeru trentasis <shig...@gmail.com>:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/shogi-l/CAH4p-9i3bQT-dDZauLXCXGVvBbuoeN3e9yZunkbtrYkBJn-Lfg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Pieter Stouten]

For history buffs and those who feel a bit nostalgic, this year marks the 40th anniversary of the European Shogi Championship, won by my BFF Hans Secelle.

I hope the attached PDF - with a short report to Mr Onogi of Nihon Shogi Renmei - will not be removed by googlegroups.

Enjoy!

Pieter

[andrei....@gmail.com]

That's partly not true. Since I do not know how do Belarus national organization rules the Preliminar ISF Tournamet. But, I do know how it (was at the time I was more involve is Shogi promotion). EVERY invited COUNTRY, ... And the "rules" where exctly the same for every Country.

Yes, the rules are clear and the same for every country, and what the JSA is doing is a great gift for shogi enthusiasts from around the world.

However, the main point here is that the JSA's approach might actually lead to a situation where small groups have little incentive to grow their local communities, because maintaining the status quo in their relationship with the JSA could be more beneficial.

For example, if participation in the ISF required a country to have legal status for its local shogi group and/or mandatory activity in the form of regular tournaments, even such minimal requirements would likely be far more effective than simply supporting individual enthusiasts.

Best regards,

Andrei