Computer Exhibition Games

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu,
Have you decided what computer exhibition games will be played?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Sat, Aug 8 2009 11:48 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu
<takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp> wrote:

> Dear Mark:
> Thank you for your question.
>
> Message-ID: <4effc93d-85a2-4b31...@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
> From: mschribr <mschr...@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: Watanabe Akira’s Comment on the World Computer Shogi Championship
>
> > Dear Takenobu: Thank you for your reply.
> > Do you plan to have 2-hour games?
> > Mark
>
> Sorry, but we have not decided yet. I think 1-hour (+60sec-byoyomi) game is OK to do
> Takenobu

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your question and I am sorry not to inform you
an event yesterday.

Please take a look at:
http://minerva.cs.uec.ac.jp/~event/shogi/20091107/
although this was written in Japanese.

Takenobu

Message-ID: <73593387-aeba-45cd...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:54:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Computer Exhibition Games

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

The results:
Monju with Bonanza 0-1 Tanizaki (Amateur,
Runner-up of the last Student Championship)
Monju lost the game because of a bug (no reply to the last move
even it had found the winning way).

Inaba (Amateur, Runner-up of the Amateur Meijin Chamipoship
and former Student Champion) 0-1 GPS Shogi.

Time spent rule:
Each has 60 minutes + 30 second byoyomi

Takenobu Takizawa

Message-ID: <20091108.142241.40745...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
From: TAKIZAWA Takenobu <taki...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:22:41 +0900 (JST)
Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.
I don’t understand. I know Bonanza is a computer shogi program
written by Kunihito Hoki. What is Monju with Bonanza?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 8, 12:38 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> The results:
>   Monju with Bonanza 0-1 Tanizaki (Amateur,
>              Runner-up of the last Student Championship)  
>   Monju lost the game because of a bug (no reply to the last move
>   even it had found the winning way).
>
>   Inaba (Amateur, Runner-up of the Amateur Meijin Chamipoship
>          and former Student Champion) 0-1 GPS Shogi.
>
> Time spent rule:
>   Each has 60 minutes + 30 second byoyomi
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
> Message-ID: <20091108.142241.40745...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> From: TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:22:41 +0900 (JST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
> > Dear Mark:
>
> > Thank you for your question and I am sorry not to inform you
> > an event yesterday.
>
> > Please take a look at:
> >http://minerva.cs.uec.ac.jp/~event/shogi/20091107/
> > although this was written in Japanese.
>
> > Takenobu
>

> > Message-ID: <73593387-aeba-45cd-990c-bca92ca03...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>
> > From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> > Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 19:54:18 -0800 (PST)
> > Subject: Computer Exhibition Games
>
> >> Dear Takenobu,
> >>     Have you decided what computer exhibition games will be played?
> >> Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
> >> On Sat, Aug 8 2009 11:48 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu
> >> <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp> wrote:
>
> >>> Dear Mark:
> >>> Thank you for your question.
>

> >>> Message-ID: <4effc93d-85a2-4b31-89c9-a79929512...@l34g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

> >>> From: mschribr <mschr...@gmail.com>
> >>> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >>> Subject: Re: Watanabe Akira’s Comment on the World Computer Shogi Championship
>
> >>> >  Dear Takenobu: Thank you for your reply.
> >>> >       Do you plan to have 2-hour games?
> >>> >  Mark
>
> >>> Sorry, but we have not decided yet.  I think 1-hour (+60sec-byoyomi) game is OK to do

> >>> Takenobu- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your reply and question.

Message-ID: <833ea271-a6a0-49ab...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 15:18:45 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games

>

> Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.
> I don’t understand. I know Bonanza is a computer shogi program
> written by Kunihito Hoki. What is Monju with Bonanza?
> Thank you. Mark Schreiber

Please visit Reijer Grimbergen's HomePage at:

http://www.teu.ac.jp/gamelab/

click "Articles I have written on Shogi" then
click "Report on the 19th Computer Shogi Championships 2009"
and you can see the explanation of Monju.
Probably you understand what Monju with Bonanza means.

Takenobu Takizawa

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa:

Thank you for reminding me who Monju is.
Congratulations to the winners. Congratulations to the participants.

Were these 2 games organized by the CSA?
Did the Monju team and GPS team describe their programs?
Did they say the size of the opening book and how many positions per
second their programs were evaluating?

Thank you. Mark Schreiber


On Nov 8, 11:12 pm, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> Thank you for your reply and question.
>
> Message-ID: <833ea271-a6a0-49ab...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> >> Message-ID: <20091108.142241.407454645627500800.takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your questions.

Message-ID: <5e1b7d7a-45f9-4165...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:15:15 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
> Dear Takenobu Takizawa:
>

> Thank you for reminding me who Monju is.
> Congratulations to the winners. Congratulations to the participants.
>
> Were these 2 games organized by the CSA?

No. The games were supported by the "Cognitive Science and
Entertainment".
http://minerva.cs.uec.ac.jp/~ito/entcog/

> Did the Monju team and GPS team describe their programs?

They will (I have ordered for the 2009 CSA journal that will be
published in 2010). The follwing are their URLs:
http://gps.tanaka.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/gpsshogi/
http://homepage1.nifty.com/ta_ito/ito-lab/gougi/gougi.html

> Did they say the size of the opening book and how many positions per
> second their programs were evaluating?

Please look at their articles online.
>
> Thank you. Mark Schreiber

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa:
Thank you for replying.
I will try to read computer translations of the online articles. But
the computer translations are usually bad.
The computers did very well in the games. Do you think the next game
should be at 2 hours?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 9, 9:21 pm, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> Thank you for your questions.
>
> Message-ID: <5e1b7d7a-45f9-4165...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:15:15 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
> > Dear Takenobu Takizawa:
>
> >  Thank you for reminding me who Monju is.
> >  Congratulations to the winners. Congratulations to the participants.
>
> >  Were these 2 games organized by the CSA?
>
> No.  The games were supported by the "Cognitive Science and
> Entertainment".
>    http://minerva.cs.uec.ac.jp/~ito/entcog/
>
> >  Did the Monju team and GPS team describe their programs?
>
> They will (I have ordered for the 2009 CSA journal that will be
> published in 2010).  The follwing are their URLs:
>    http://gps.tanaka.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/gpsshogi/ 
>    http://homepage1.nifty.com/ta_ito/ito-lab/gougi/gougi.html
>
> >  Did they say the size of the opening book and how many positions per
> > second their programs were evaluating?
>
> Please look at their articles online.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
> > On Nov 8, 11:12 pm, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
> > wrote:
> >> Dear Mark:
>
> >> Thank you for your reply and question.
>

> >> Message-ID: <833ea271-a6a0-49ab-b90a-53b6ae78e...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your message and question.

Message-ID: <ccd5ca4c-518e-46ba...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:50:28 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
> Dear Takenobu Takizawa:

> Thank you for replying.
> I will try to read computer translations of the online articles. But
> the computer translations are usually bad.

I am sorry.

> The computers did very well in the games. Do you think the next game
> should be at 2 hours?

Uhmmm. I think the players would be better to be professionals
rather than changing time spent limitations...

Takenobu Takizawa

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.

Why do you think that playing professionals is better than
changing time spent limitations?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 11, 9:16 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> Thank you for your message and question.
>
> Message-ID: <ccd5ca4c-518e-46ba...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:50:28 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
> > Dear Takenobu Takizawa:
> >   Thank you for replying.
> >   I will try to read computer translations of the online articles. But
> > the computer translations are usually bad.
>
> I am sorry.
>
> >   The computers did very well in the games. Do you think the next game
> > should be at 2 hours?
>
> Uhmmm.  I think the players would be better to be professionals
> rather than changing time spent limitations...
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
> > Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
>  On Nov 9, 9:21 pm, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >> Dear Mark:
>
> >> Thank you for your questions.
>

> >> Message-ID: <5e1b7d7a-45f9-4165-825f-4c83eaac3...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your question.

I am sorry but I was out of town so that I could not reply your
question, yet.

Message-ID: <799abc2e-a086-4179...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:57:39 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games

>
> Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.

> Why do you think that playing professionals is better than
> changing time spent limitations?
> Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>

Well, I think that to play against professional is vetter than
to against amateur players.
I think also that changing time spent limitations for playing
against amateur players will show us only small surprizing
result.

Takenobu Takizawa

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.

When you say professionals to play computers do you mean
professional class C2 C1 B2 B1 or A?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 15, 9:19 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>
> Thank you for your question.

> I am sorry but I was out of town so that I could not reply your
> question, yet.
>
> Message-ID: <799abc2e-a086-4179...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 08:57:39 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
> > Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.
> >     Why do you think that playing professionals is better than
> > changing time spent limitations?
> > Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
> Well, I think that to play against professional is vetter than
> to against amateur players.
> I think also that changing time spent limitations for playing
> against amateur players will show us only small surprizing
> result.
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
>
>
> > On Nov 11, 9:16 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
> > wrote:
> >> Dear Mark:
>
> >> Thank you for your message and question.
>

> >> Message-ID: <ccd5ca4c-518e-46ba-8697-0f5dc99d5...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your question.

Message-ID: <0d7eef9b-079e-4ac3...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:40:26 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
> Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.

> When you say professionals to play computers do you mean
> professional class C2 C1 B2 B1 or A?
> Thank you. Mark Schreiber

This question is difficult to answer. There are stronger players
and other players all over the professional players.
For example, Ryuo Watanabe was in B2 class when he took the title.
He is probably stronger than almost all A class players, but he is
in B1 class, now.

Some of strong plyers other than him belong to B1, B2, C1 and
even C2 classes. I do not name them, although.

If categorizing the professional players into Strong, Medium, Weak
classes, I would like to let the computer program(s) play against
Medium or stronger player(s).

Takenobu Takizawa

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

I made a mistake.
Ryuo Watanabe was in C1 class when he took the title.

Takenobu Takizawa

Message-ID: <20091116.211656.73700...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
From: TAKIZAWA Takenobu <taki...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:16:56 +0900 (JST)

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.

Do you know if there were games at the GPW game programming
workshop?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 16, 7:47 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> I made a mistake.  
> Ryuo Watanabe was in C1 class when he took the title.
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
> Message-ID: <20091116.211656.73700...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> From: TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:16:56 +0900 (JST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
> > Dear Mark:
>
> > Thank you for your question.
>

> > Message-ID: <0d7eef9b-079e-4ac3-a854-b006e9fd5...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
> > From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> > Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:40:26 -0800 (PST)
> > Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
> >> Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.
> >>     When you say professionals to play computers do you mean
> >> professional class C2 C1 B2 B1 or A?
> >> Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
> > This question is difficult to answer.  There are stronger players  
> > and other players all over the professional players.
> > For example, Ryuo Watanabe was in B2 class when he took the title.
> > He is probably stronger than almost all A class players, but he is
> > in B1 class, now.
>
> > Some of strong plyers other than him belong to B1, B2, C1 and
> > even C2 classes.  I do not name them, although.
>
> > If categorizing the professional players into Strong, Medium, Weak
> > classes, I would like to let the computer program(s) play against
> > Medium or stronger player(s).
>
> > Takenobu Takizawa  
>
> >> On Nov 15, 9:19 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Dear Mark:
>
> >>> Thank you for your question.
> >>> I am sorry but I was out of town so that I could not reply your
> >>> question, yet.
>

> >>> Message-ID: <799abc2e-a086-4179-982f-fcfee0391...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your question.

There were NO exhibition games, this year, but there were computer
games (two human teams entered).
I will send you a copy of the results, although the results were
written in Japanese.

Takenobu Takizawa

Message-ID: <b0b08181-9f5f-4a18...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:58:08 -0800 (PST)

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa:
Thank you for sending me the results of GPW 2009.
What were the time limits for the games?
What were the ratings of the human teams?
I see Bonanza 楽観合議 won all its games. What does 楽観合議 mean?
What does 先 mean? Can you tell me about まったりゆう and がっかりゆう?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 17, 10:59 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>
> Thank you for your question.

> There were NO exhibition games, this year, but there were computer
> games (two human teams entered).
> I will send you a copy of the results, although the results were
> written in Japanese.
>
> Takenobu Takizawa
>
> Message-ID: <b0b08181-9f5f-4a18...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:58:08 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for your reply.
> >     Do you know if there were games at the GPW game programming
> > workshop?
> > Thank you. Mark Schreiber
>
> > On Nov 16, 7:47 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
> > wrote:
> >> Dear Mark:
>
> >> I made a mistake.  
> >> Ryuo Watanabe was in C1 class when he took the title.
>
> >> Takenobu Takizawa
>

> >> Message-ID: <20091116.211656.737004071327888983.takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your questions.

Message-ID: <9d557cd4-3aba-420b...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:44:33 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games

> Dear Takenobu Takizawa:

> Thank you for sending me the results of GPW 2009.
> What were the time limits for the games?

25 minutes without byoyomi.

> What were the ratings of the human teams?

Mr. Shinoda is a very strong amateur player. He was the 1999 Amateur
Ryuo. He is now a math professor of Nara Women's University:
http://www.math.nara-wu.ac.jp/personal/shinoda/shinoda_e.html

Kyushu University is a couple of students who are strong players
but weaker than Mr. Shinoda.

Please contact Mr. Shinoda if you would like to know human players
more detailedly.

> I see Bonanza 楽観合議 won all its games. What does 楽観合議 mean?

"合議" is "consultation" which Monju team involved in a shogi program.
"楽観合議" is actually, "楽観的合議". This is a kind of "合議".
The total system choose a move with highest value that calculated by
indivisual systems. If you would like to know better, please contact
Mr. Takeshi Ito of the University of Electro-Communications or
Mr. Kunihito Hoki of Tohoku University.

> What does 先 mean? Can you tell me about まったりゆう and がっかりゆう?

"先" means sente (first player).
Both "まったりゆう and がっかりゆう" are made by Kotani Laboratory
of Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology. I do not know the
programs very well. Please contact Professor Yoshiyuki Kotani of the
university.

> --
>
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> To post to this group, send email to sho...@googlegroups.com.
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>
>

[Mark Schreiber]

Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for answering my questions about the
GPW 2009.
Can you explain when you said “I think also that changing time

spent limitations for playing against amateur players will show us

only small surprising result.”?
Thank you. Mark Schreiber

On Nov 19, 2:03 am, TAKIZAWA Takenobu <takiz...@mnc.waseda.ac.jp>
wrote:
> Dear Mark:
>

> Thank you for your questions.
>
> Message-ID: <9d557cd4-3aba-420b...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>

> From: Mark Schreiber <mschr...@gmail.com>

> >> Message-ID: <b0b08181-9f5f-4a18-86bd-70d8d55ea...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>

[TAKIZAWA Takenobu]

Dear Mark:

Thank you for your question.

Message-ID: <f01ee992-6b55-4e9a...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
From: Mark Schreiber <msch...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:03:44 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: Computer Exhibition Games

> Dear Takenobu Takizawa: Thank you for answering my questions about the
> GPW 2009.
> Can you explain when you said “I think also that changing time
> spent limitations for playing against amateur players will show us
> only small surprising result.”?

Probably, we do not excite even if computer software wins
against an amateur player with longer time spent limitation.