Changing the fonts and other typographic settings in MDF

[Ian Scales]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but is there a way to change settings within the MDF program code, to choose another font (such as Andika), and to mess with the paragraph indents and spacing?

Sure, this can be done in Word, post-MDF, but if you're producing drafts then you'd have to go over it all again each time. I guess Word macros is an option, but still seems post-hoc. 

[ToolBox SIL]

Hi, Ian,

The answer is Yes and No. It is fully possible to make changes which stay from one export to another, but they are made in Word. You have to save the changes you make in the template.

MDF has its own templates (usually MDF_e.dot) which it attaches to the exported RTF document, so you don't need to worry that changes you make in an MDF document will affect other documents you make in Word.

Now I need to ask you a question: Do you know about Styles in Word? 

If the answer is Yes, then you need to know that a Template in Word is a collection of styles. When you export from MDF, the reason you see some things bold and others italic, etc, is that those values have been saved in the MDF template.

When you make a change to a style in Word, be sure to click on "New documents based on this template". (Older versions of Word had something terse like "Save in Template".) You have to choose this option for each change that you make that you want to keep, even if you've already chosen the option for this very style earlier in your editing session. (Otherwise Word will save the first change, not the latest.)

When you exit, you will be asked if you want to save the changes to the template. Be sure to choose Yes.

If you are not familiar with the concept of Styles, or if you'd like more information, I have posted two documents on our website on the topic. I thought I could just attach one to send you, but it doesn't emphasize saving the changes to the template as much as I thought it did. Those two documents are

Creating a Formatted Document from Toolbox which talks about how Toolbox relates to styles in Word and how to build a template that Toolbox can attach to an RTF export (or to MDF).

and

Adjusting the Appearance in Word which talks about the various ways you can change the styles and the general appearance of a document.

It's mentioned in Adjusting the Appearance, and you've probably found it already, but the number of columns and the margins and paper size are in Toolbox. In the MDF export, they are under Options, Page Setup. Note that there are two tabs, one for page size and margins ("Document") and the other for columns ("Section").

The other thing that is not saved in the template is the headers and footers. 

I have a meeting in about 5 minutes, so will close this off. I didn't want to go into too much detail that you might well already know, but I'll be glad to answer any questions that you have.

Blessings,

Karen

Toolbox Support

On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 12:02 AM Ian Scales <ianalexan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Apologies if this has already been covered, but is there a way to change settings within the MDF program code, to choose another font (such as Andika), and to mess with the paragraph indents and spacing?

Sure, this can be done in Word, post-MDF, but if you're producing drafts then you'd have to go over it all again each time. I guess Word macros is an option, but still seems post-hoc. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Shoebox/Toolbox Field Linguist's Toolbox" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to shoeboxtoolbox-field-ling...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/shoeboxtoolbox-field-linguists-toolbox/70549373-bc36-4e87-ba0f-ae53aaba1c2cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ian Scales]

Hi Karen, this is great. Alright, I'll absorb this and play with it, and then get back to you if I have more questions, or else to say if I have succeeded with your instructions here. 

Keep well,

Ian

[Ian Scales]

Hi Karen, 

Following up on your earlier instructions:

I have now used styles in MS Word (2019) to modify the MDF template of my Toolbox file. At least, I can modify *font* parameters on the styles. I can't modify *paragraph* characteristics of styles though, like spacing and hanging indents. That's because, Styles>Modify>Format>Paragraph is grayed out.

This is even though paragraphs (my lexical entries) each begin with a lexeme (/lx field) which is set in Toolbox properties to be paragraph style (SFR = P or PF, either way doesn't make a difference). (The following text in each entry, e.g. /de and /gn, is all set in Toolbox properties to SFR=character styles).

My overall aim is to reduce the size of everything to fit an A5 format, so to make saddle-stitched dictionary booklets (using my old Adobe InDesign or my new Affinity Publisher). So maintaining the default 1cm hangings and 12pt spacing on what is now my 9pt text, doesn't look good and makes the whole thing way too many pages long.

Obvious workarounds like 1) "why not just print the default A4 output at 71%", and 2) "why not just export to rtf instead of mdf", I don't think are suitable:

  1) reduce n print: this won't let me copy the formatted text output and paste into Affinity Publisher or Adobe InDesign flowing text frames, without then hours of manual reformatting.

  2) rtf doesn't handle the Toolbox markup e.g. fi:x , fb:x , and fi|{x}. I could global search/replace for the markup in an rtf export, but this is not really practical for numerous print iterations. 

So it comes down to being able to set paragraph properties in the MDF template. 

Have you come across this before? Any suggestions? Apologies if I missed something you've already documented.

Thanks always for your great help.

Ian.

[Ian Scales]

Oh wait. The style "Entry Paragraph" seems to be the key to all.  

[ToolBox SIL]

I'm glad you've already found it and I can see that I need to update the documents I sent you! I wrote them thinking of non-MDF users. But MDF changes the Database Type of the dictionary as it is being processed. So, even though you assigned \lx to export as a Paragraph style, when it changed Database Type, they all became Character style. Plus it adds its own paragraph styles.

There's actually a good reason for the extra Paragraph styles that MDF adds. In Word, if you have a paragraph consisting of several Character styles, as one usually does with a dictionary, AND, if you have made the first item of the paragraph the Paragraph style, then the whole paragraph (ie, all the Characters styles inside the paragraph) will want to take on whatever characteristics you assign to the Paragraph style. So, if you specify that the Paragraph-style Lexeme should be bold, then everything in that paragraph will turn bold! Since dictionaries distinguish their different elements by giving them different print-styles, this is quite annoying. Plus, if you want the part-of-speech not-bold, then you have to specify that it is bold -- because bold and italic are on-off switches. And if the paragraph style turned on bold, then to turn it off, you have to click on bold for the character style. It has a high potential for confusion. It's easier to make a Paragraph style with no font features (except, maybe, size) and then have all the individual Character styles add their own (limited) font features.

One very handy tool for dealing with MDF exported data is the Style Inspector. I have used Options to put it onto my Quick Access toolbar. But you can also access it from the Styles menu. It tells not only the Character style but also the Paragraph style.

The big A with the magnifying glass is the Style Inspector.

If you want to add the Style Inspector to your Quick Access Toolbar, you can find it under File, Options.

Well, let me know if you have any other questions. 

Blessings,

Karen

Toolbox Support

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/shoeboxtoolbox-field-linguists-toolbox/dac96b0f-1ebc-4f54-b679-a129e829029dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ian Scales]

I suppose there's only a limited number of people who use Toolbox now (since SIL now encourages everyone to use Flex, though I personally find Toolbox very versatile).

For that reason, maybe I'll be the only one to ever use these notes I'll make here. 

There's a lot to be said for using publishing software rather than MS Word to turn a lexicon into a book. Within a single publishing file, you can lay out your introductory pages, the actual lexicon and your reverse glossary, set in any illustrations (easily and reliably, unlike in Word), and get a uniform treatment of all your running headers and footers. Then print the whole thing as PDF, or create an "imposition" version for booklet folding and binding. 

In this scenario, Word is but a stepping-stone, used to get the MDF output which you then copy-paste into flowing text frames within the publishing software. I used Adobe InDesign (ancient CS3 because I have it), but if I'd had more time to get up to speed on it, I'd have used Affinity Publisher (today's low-cost classy publishing software).

The thing to note is that the publishing software is, like Word, also using the styles that come from MDF, and in the same general way as Word does: paragraph vs character styles. So whatever MDF comes out with in terms of fonts, line spacing, indents and so on, these can (and will need to) be set up again in the publishing software (which then overrides the MDF -- or Word -- settings). 

The lexicon I'm producing as a booklet (a compiled series of smaller lexicons of plants, birds, fish, etc.) is pretty simple, in that it doesn't use many Toolbox fields. So it's not generating many paragraph/character styles. I found that in my MDF output there were only three paragraph styles governing the character styles:

- Entry Paragraph (governs the text within each entry)

- Indented Paragraph (governs the text of subentries)

- Letter Parapgraph1 (governs the alphabetic dividers)

After setting up line spacing and indents within these paragraph styles, then you set up fonts within the more numerous character styles. (P.S., there was no need in my case to modify any settings within Toolbox database properties.) 

This is the initial set-up process for automating the publishing software. But then, as I revise the wording of the text, I can copy-paste new iterations of the MDF output into the publishing software with a single "ctrl-c", and it all reappears fully formatted again, voila.

Overall, its been a perfect success, and my "published" version is now under my full control, able to completely break out from the old MDF look. I'm attracted to lexicography from earlier decades anyway, which, with this process, I am able to fully emulate or riff upon, with only the work of initial setup. 

Stay well Karen, all the best until next time.

Ian

[Ian Scales]

> John R. Rennison 
> 19:40 (2 hours ago)
> to me
>
> Dear Ian,
>
> Before I got a chance to take a look at your problem in detail, Karen
> was already well on the way to solving it. But please don't throw out
> formatting with MS Word yet. I'm sure that a good number of
> Toolbox/Shoebox users, like myself, are often faced with the
> re-formatting of entries in the middle of pages which disrupt things.
> What we need is something reliable to produce, say, an annual update of
> a long-term dictionary project, not "classy publishing software".
> Pictures, admittedly, are a problem; but they are a problem no matter
> how good your desktop publisher is. There's much more to say on the
> details you mention, but let's not bloat this thread.
>
> I wish you good luck with your classy publications, which MDF can handle
> just as easily as my run-of-the-mill stuff. The people who conceived,
> designed and implemented MDF can only be congratulated on their
> far-sightedness in being able to handle both.
>
> All the best,
> John


Hi John, thank you for your reply.

I would hasten to say, I do not classify my own products as classy. The current booklet, which is in the format I am adopting for a series of cultural booklets for the same audience (the language community itself) from my own self-funded research, is simply duplex printed with a consumer laser printer, onto A4 copy paper, folded in half to A5, with a slightly thicker colour paper cover, all stapled at the spine and trimmed on the fore edge with a craft knife. It's home-made, cheap, and fitting my budget -- which is only my own money. The reduction to A5, along with the practical limit of 72 pages, required a reformat from default MDF output: it simply would not have fitted even if reduced 71%. Initially I thought I would do that in Word, but knowing InDesign fairly well, I realised it would be a better tool for the job in this case. Then, I thought I'd communicate that in the chance it might be an inspiration for someone else.  

I'm sorry if my mention of publishing software caused offence. I didn't intend it so much as a criticism of MDF, than as to say new tools can create new workflows and new effects. In my hobby, woodwork, there's always a lively exchange between tradition and innovation. Without sufficient caution, I'd assumed a similarly open ethos here. Calling Affinity Publisher "classy" was admittedly hyperbole, but only meant to sound enthusiastic. I hadn't anticipated such a negative reaction.

Ian Scales
Australia

[ToolBox SIL]

Hi to both Ian and John,

Frankly, I didn't find either of your comments all that negative or offensive. I appreciate the comments.

I certainly know that publication with Word is not always a trivial matter and am glad to have a recommendation for an inexpensive alternative, especially for dealing with multiple pictures on a page, which Word doesn't seem to like very much. 

I also know that many people find MDF not quite what they had in mind and I've customized it totally away in some cases. One of the first things I was asked to do for someone using MDF was to get rid of its custom reordering.

On the other hand, a number of people do use both Word and MDF -- and Toolbox, SIL's endorsement of Flex notwithstanding. I hear regularly from folks who have used Toolbox for years and also from new users who are happy to have found it. They mostly have fairly simple questions, but now and then someone wants to print something that isn't MDF or to add features to their dictionary that MDF doesn't consider. It keeps life interesting. 

Thanks again to both of you for your comments.

Karen

Toolbox Support

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/shoeboxtoolbox-field-linguists-toolbox/df330cef-df05-4490-911f-a82c4d3732f1n%40googlegroups.com.