希望各位谈一下gtk和qt的选择（无意于口水战）
徐牛
-------------------------------------------
为了那些爱你的人和你爱的人，
无论你多努力都不为过。
Jiahua Huang
arroa（记不得了）的渲染有点差，而且在gmail下的输入还有问题
1，与c++结合更紧密点的。而且我现在在用python
2，适用要广的，因为我想拿来就业的。
3，当然学习的话资料算起来就要丰富点，最好是中文的。
4，多少最好能有点潜力可发展，因为要毕业可能没有多少时间充电。
5，如果大家推荐qt的话，希望能介绍一下自己的kde的使用经验，谢谢。
6，还有版权的一些问题吧。
halida
搞了一个绑定。
gtk没有用过不知道。
就业的话，掌握qt就好了，如果工作的时候要用gtk再学也不迟，会了一个图形库，再学别的也不难。
Jiahua Huang
pyqt 用起来很舒服，但是 qt 类型和 python 类型转换上面。。感觉会有问题。qt 可以免费商用，但是 pyqt 不能免费商用，所以nokia 又自己
搞了一个绑定。
gtk 没有用过不知道。
Jiahua Huang
PyQt4 一系比 PyGtk 一系好了不知道多少……
"Qt for GTK Developers" - a talk at UbuCon 2009, Göttingen, Germany
This Sunday, I gave a presentation at UbuCon 2009, the German Ubuntu Developers and Users conference, held at the wonderful historic town of Göttingen, in northern Germany. The conference covers a variety of distribution development topics, with about 250 participants, and a 5-track presentation schedule (!). The talk I submitted was about a topic that fascinates me a lot lately - the convergence of Free Software desktop technologies under the hood, which makes Qt developers get in touch with GTK based technologies more and more, and vice versa, and about our experience at KDAB with developing such technologies. It was called "Qt for GTK Developers", purposefully slightly on the provocative side, with a smirk. After all, I am used to working in areas with unusual risk conditions, so why the heck not? Also, this comes not even close to the stress levels created by parenting. The talk was about how Qt and GTK are both used for developing base desktop services, which toolkit dominates in what areas, and what our guesses are on what the future brings. The central part was an overview of Qt technologies and practises, presented in contrast to GTK. The talk consisted of four sections dubbed "Everything was better in the old days", "Everyone does what he wants", "Qt is not what it used to be", and "This is as good as it gets". There were quite a few good laughs between the audience and me. Read on for more details.
Everything was better in the old days
It started out with a flashback to the GCDS, and how the Gnome and KDE communities collided and formed a new sun of creativity. Are Tracker, Soprani, Strigi, and Nepomuk all doing the same thing, and does it really make sense to run two separate indexing services in the desktop to be able to use the KDE and Gnome infrastructure? Is DBus a Gnome, a KDE, or an obsolete technology? The user wants similar desktop styles, do we have to duplicate them, then, always? Will Evolution and Kontact store, index, and syncronize the same information of the user's data, or two independent copies? The discussion culminates in uncomfortable questions - does the desktop have an identity for the regular Linux user? Are KDE and Gnome converging into one user experience were both the distributions and the user mix and match whatever applications, window manager, and workspace they please? What do the lofty names for the core technologies actually mean in the long run? There is, of course, no ready made answer for these questions.
Everyone does what he wants
In more detail, the current situation was discussed. GTK and Qt use rather different ways of development and packaging, GTK being more of a bundle of technologies, which combined make up the user experience. Qt integrates its modules into one (huge) package. The similarity in the development model is obvious - Qt being developed by a single company, while in GTK, multiple smaller companies specialize in developing individual GTK technologies, potentially backed by the larger GTK using companies, funding their development efforts. The differing license models of Qt and GTK were discussed, which a focus on what difference those make today, and how they influence new software projects when the GUI toolkit is selected. This was about as much abstract reasoning a human being can take at a time, so the next section had some code. Some.
Qt is not what it used to be
It was an overview of what Qt is today, and how it changed from a GUI toolkit to a comprehensive application framework. Qt is still mostly seen as purely a GUI toolkit by those not using it, so I presented which modules it consists of, and which tools, and also what programming practices it facilitates. The fact that Qt has fully dynamic integration of DBus, for example, took many by surprise. The XML modules (and the fact that they are written as part of Qt, and tend to not break with the next Qt version), the Webkit implementation, the SVG renderer, QtScript, all these are obviously much unknown outside of the Qt developer's world. Then I presented an overview of the Qt development tools, both the fully flegded GUI applications, and the command line tools that are part of the build process. The resource system lifted a few eye brows ("Could I use that to link some resources, and access them from a GTK program if I write a wrapper to get to the files that uses Qt? Sure.") I explained how Qt starts to be used for defining platform APIs as well, but at the same time integrates with glib. It is amazing to see how the different technologies go in circles around each other. I demonstrated a few bits of Qt code, starting, of course, with "Hello World". I showed a demo of QGraphicsView, and the QUnitTest-based QThreadPool performance test I also used at the DevDays (me being me, there had to be some multi-threading in the presentation). It is apparent that the ease and the straightforward way in which such examples can be written in Qt did surprise some in the audience. I did point out that the fact that platform APIs are developed using Qt does not automatically mean that the KDE guys get their way, this seemed comforting, in a weird way of shared misery.
This is as good as it gets
The outlook and summary wrapup is probably the part where I made the fewest friends, so to say. I explained why I think that natively compiled languages will dominate desktop applications for quite some time to come. The inefficiency of running many small desktop applications in (J)VMs seems to impede the use of Java for the kind of applications we develop. I declared Mono to be a bad idea (tm), because the Free Software world is trotting behind Microsoft. It means we are re-implementing the idea of how they think future (Windows?) applications should be developed, again. That must be a waste of Free Software engineering resources, we are innovators, not followers. To be precise and to avoid misunderstandings, I did not criticize C# as a bad programming language, but the process of how the .NET API is developed further and extended. And then I said I think Vala is a bad idea as well, because I find it highly improbable that a couple of people, no matter how brilliant, could define a strikingly better programming language in a few weeks than whole research departments in a community process over many years. Even more doubt is cast by the fact that it was invented solely to get rid of C, without admitting that C++ would have been a better choice. As expected, these statements started an interesting and somewhat heated discussion. No animals or humans have been harmed in the process, and I made it out safely to the train station. Overall, this was a very interesting encounter. The organizers of the conference did a very good job, with a weekend flatrate for food and drinks, this is a really great idea. The slides will come up on the conference site in a few days.
- mirko's blog
- Login or register to post comments
徐牛
-------------------------------------------
为了那些爱你的人和你爱的人，
无论你多努力都不为过。
徐牛
-------------------------------------------
为了那些爱你的人和你爱的人，
无论你多努力都不为过。
halida
单从桌面来说，kde丰富，gnome简洁。
对开发商来说，简洁意味着开发成本低。
作为power user，用kde比较爽。
On Oct 22, 6:35 pm, 徐牛 <cbkidlll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 对了，忘了说，我现在用的是Ubuntu
> 9.10，算起来Ubuntu对桌面贡献很大，但是也算是对GNOME的支持把。我上次试用的chakra的kde4.3.2不知道Google和
> Canonical能不能对这个gui的选择产生影响呢？
>
> -------------------------------------------
> 为了那些爱你的人和你爱的人，
> 无论你多努力都不为过。
>
> 2009/10/22 徐牛 <cbkidlll...@gmail.com>
>
>
>
> > Arora这个我确实没记错，用chromium的我也挺喜欢这个速度奇快的浏览器，因此我还适用了一下kde4.3.2，我用的是kimpanel+ibus在收件人输入框还没问题呢，在邮件内容那就不能呼出来了。
>
> > 你说的1，2，3，4点我也听说过，塞班收购qt是我想选qt的一大原因，但是如你所见，chromium选择了gtk这个是不是说明google选择了gtk呢？我在GNOME下也用qt的软件，像linux-fetion,smplayer，但是这个也仅限于这两种，只是一直感觉kde这个桌面对中国国情把握的有点...输入法没有...qq不支持...
>
> > 虽说在GNOME下用qt完全没问题...但是我用Qt编程用Gtk软件还是有说不通吧，到时我想hack的话不是有点无语了....但事实上看来确实Qt是个技术较好的东西了....只是对c++是，而且据说除了pyside不知道是不是3楼说的Nokia新搞的。
>
> > 谢谢大伙的建议，我觉得我多半会选择Qt的。
>
> > -------------------------------------------
> > 为了那些爱你的人和你爱的人，
> > 无论你多努力都不为过。
>
> > 2009/10/22 Jiahua Huang <jhuangjia...@gmail.com>
>
> >> 2009/10/22 徐牛 <cbkidlll...@gmail.com>
>
> >> arroa（记不得了）的渲染有点差，而且在gmail下的输入还有问题
>
> >> Arora 是 Qt4 软件，使用 QtWebKit 渲染，
> >> 新版本效果不错的， Gmail 里的输入也没问题。
>
> >> 你估计是记错了 Konnqueror 浏览器吧。
>
> >> 1，与c++结合更紧密点的。而且我现在在用python
>
> >> 那么当然是 Qt4 了，
>
> >>> 2，适用要广的，因为我想拿来就业的。
>
> >> Qt 可用在嵌入式设备里
>
> >>> 3，当然学习的话资料算起来就要丰富点，最好是中文的。
>
> >> 奇趣公司有着商业品质的完整文档，Qt 中文站也不错，
> >> Gtk 就汗惨了
>
> >>> 4，多少最好能有点潜力可发展，因为要毕业可能没有多少时间充电。
>
> >> 诺基亚收购奇趣了，塞班也将是推 Python Qt4
>
> >>> 5，如果大家推荐qt的话，希望能介绍一下自己的kde的使用经验，谢谢。
>
> >> Qt4 跟 KDE 并没有特别的关系啊，
> >> 而且现在 Qt4 默认使用桌面设定主题，
> >> 在 Gnome 下是使用 QGtkStyle，外观、文件对话框等跟标准 Gtk/Gnome 程序别无二至，
>
> >> 就是说 Qt4 无须关心在哪个桌面环境，
> >> 甚至在 Windows 和 MAC OS X 下也是本地原生外观。
>
> >>> 6，还有版权的一些问题吧。
>
> >> 也许你应该改称*授权*，
