New Members

[Andy Kirby]

New members please make your first posing here.

Introduce yourself, tell everyone what your interests are, let people know where you feel you have skills to offer, which skills you want to work on and which ones you feel are a lost cause.

What hacking projects have you done, are doing, and fancy doing next.

Have you got a bucket list ??

What is on it ??

Please keep in depth personnal information to a minimum, this is a public forum, If you couldn't shout it out in front of County Hall on a busy shopping day, don't mention it here.

[Clowne]

Hi I'm David,

I'm looking to do a few projects with accelerometers and PICs, but while I can work out what chips to use I'm rubbish at soldering and I don't yet know enough electronics to know where to put the odd capacitor and resistor in. I'd like to start by getting a simple accelerometer test bed set up so I can explore what I can use it for.

I can offer assistance in assembly language, C and C++. In particular Z80 assembler which I used back in the 1980s to write some reasonably well known ZX-Spectrum games.

[Janine Kirby]

Welcome David!

If you want to come along and meet the group, our next scheduled meetings are:

This Saturday, 25 April 10-4

Bank Holiday Monday 6-9 (but may be extended hours due to Bank Holiday - watch this space!)

Saturday 9 May 10-4

We meet at the Portland Works, Randall Street (just along from Go Outdoors/ up from Bramall Lane)

Feel free to post queries on here too.

bw

Janine

On 21 April 2015 at 00:22, Clowne <clown...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi I'm David,

I'm looking to do a few projects with accelerometers and PICs, but while I can work out what chips to use I'm rubbish at soldering and I don't yet know enough electronics to know where to put the odd capacitor and resistor in. I'd like to start by getting a simple accelerometer test bed set up so I can explore what I can use it for.

I can offer assistance in assembly language, C and C++. In particular Z80 assembler which I used back in the 1980s to write some reasonably well known ZX-Spectrum games.

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[Andy Kirby]

Hurro David.

Don't worry too much about the details of embedded engineering (it is called physical computing these days)  there are plenty of folk in the group that can help with those.

TBH a lot of the modular boards have most of what is needed in the way of glue electronics on them. You can do far worse than doing initial development work with those and maybe graduating to a custom layout if you want to when you have everything up and running to your satisfaction.

A lot of projects being one off's rather than production prototype's stop at this point. Or convert to hard wired on maybe matrix or strip board, getting rid of the unreliable and troublesome sockets etc.  It troubles me the number of so called finished projects you see on t'internet that have a breadboard in a case as the finished item.

PIC's are OK, I used them until the AVR based Arduino came along. Given the price per chip was similar and the performance comparable but there was a massive amount of Open Source support and demand for the AVR I went that way.

What ever processor you want to work with is fine, the electronics is pretty much the same. The registers and on chip hardware are quite different. You will get along quicker with Arduino/AVR or ARM cores purely as there is so much already out there in the way of electronic building blocks and matching library’s to work from.

But sometimes it is better to work with something you know, or maybe even it is about the challenge.

The AVR and Arduino can do a lot more a lot quicker when driven by developers that can really do embedded work. Most folk are not actually using it any where near to it's potential, but it is a good way in and stepping stone.

Soldering is I think one of those basic essential things, we are looking at running up some tutorial/short courses on. It is relatively easy given a bunch of ground rules but seems to frighten folk a little unnecessarily initially. Along with PCB making tutorial/courses.

Cheers

Kirbs

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[Bugs]

Hi Clowne / David!

>getting a simple accelerometer test bed set up so I can explore what I can use it for.

We're reviving our high altitude balloon project, and certainly want some accelerometer data from that. At the moment we're looking at a pre-fabbed 10DOF (degrees of freedom) board: 3 axis accelerometer, 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer, barometer. If you want to send a few sensors up as an experiment to see what readings you get, we can talk about weights and power requirements.

Separately, I've long had a half-baked idea of mapping the London Underground by making (lots of!) journeys with a set of accelerometers. Pretty sure that the transformation of data from acceleration -> speed -> position would amplify errors massively, but that can be constrained by using known positions of stations to re-normalise. Relatively simple electronics and a fair bit of number crunching, plus surreptitiously taking crude measurements of tube stations to estimate depth, without getting shot (counting steps, estimating pitch of sloped corridors, etc). It'd be an interesting project. All the curved "real" London Underground maps I've seen are just simple curve-fitting to the station positions, and don't represent the tunnels' actual paths. And AFAIK no depth data is publicly available for the tunnels or any but a handful of stations.

This is probably something google or apple could do without effort, given that they must have many millions of Underground journeys' worth of phone accelerometer and positioning data. But if they've done it, it hasn't been published. 

[Mike Smith]

On 21 April 2015 at 13:17, Bugs <bu...@binny.eu> wrote:

Hi Clowne / David!

>getting a simple accelerometer test bed set up so I can explore what I can use it for.

We're reviving our high altitude balloon project, and certainly want some accelerometer data from that. At the moment we're looking at a pre-fabbed 10DOF (degrees of freedom) board: 3 axis accelerometer, 3 axis gyro, 3 axis magnetometer, barometer. If you want to send a few sensors up as an experiment to see what readings you get, we can talk about weights and power requirements.

Lyndsey suggested the air pollution sensor project could be combined (humidity and temperature have a large impact though), but it might be interesting to see how particulates vary in altitude? (I've just google scholared but failed to find a paper doing this, someone else will probably find one, I'm sure it must have been done!).
 

Separately, I've long had a half-baked idea of mapping the London Underground by making (lots of!) journeys with a set of accelerometers. Pretty sure that the transformation of data from acceleration -> speed -> position would amplify errors massively, but that can be constrained by using known positions of stations to re-normalise. Relatively simple electronics and a fair bit of number crunching, plus surreptitiously taking crude measurements of tube stations to estimate depth, without getting shot (counting steps, estimating pitch of sloped corridors, etc). It'd be an interesting project. All the curved "real" London Underground maps I've seen are just simple curve-fitting to the station positions, and don't represent the tunnels' actual paths. And AFAIK no depth data is publicly available for the tunnels or any but a handful of stations.

This is probably something google or apple could do without effort, given that they must have many millions of Underground journeys' worth of phone accelerometer and positioning data. But if they've done it, it hasn't been published. 

Cool idea. I don't know if they'll have been able to do it that easily - there's no GPS signal down there, and I don't know if they bother to collect accel data? Maybe I'm wrong about that.

Wasn't there a Greg Egan book where people's routes were estimated from microscope accelerometers 'dusted' onto them. In reality I suspect that there's just far far too much noise, e.g. "the orientation of the sensor must be known with a high degree of accuracy so that gravity measurements can be distinguished from the physical acceleration of the sensor."[1]. I imagine old-fashioned triangulation might be the best way. Not as fun though? Also will get you barred from the underground as 'suspicious'! Unless the triangulation can be done covertly? (three+ people, two stationary at any point? with range finders, ugh, I don't know!).

Mike.

[1] http://www.chrobotics.com/library/accel-position-velocity

[Bugs]

> it might be interesting to see how particulates vary in altitude?

Yes, definitely. Have you been introduced to Ian, by the way? He's involved in an air quality data project in Sheffield.

I haven't read proper papers on it, but I've seen it in pop science sources. Basically, airtight containers with the air pumped out are launched, then briefly opened at various altitudes to capture air samples. The context I saw it in was microbiology, interested in seeing what organisms are being carried around in the upper atmosphere. All sorts of interesting stuff, as it turns out.

And if you haven't talked to Janine and Andy about the panspermia researcher they talked to, ask them about it! That guy was exposing sticky surfaces instead of capturing actual air samples, IIRC, then examining them microscopically.

>the orientation of the sensor must be known with a high degree of accuracy so that gravity measurements can be distinguished from the physical acceleration of the sensor.

Even less practical an idea than I'd thought. Ho hum.

[Andy Kirby]

Like that idea.

There is a lot of stuff under London (And a few other cities like sheffield), a bunch of it historic and forgotten rather than secret as such.

Exclusion plots can be as interesting as what is plotted.

Being able to map tunnels etc of any sort is something that would be fun.

It all strays  little into UrbEx but it may as well be mapped for real.

If doing this personally I would also log gps not because it is any good underground but because if you stand still by an entrance and let it log a bunch of points you can do some form of statistical post process on it to give you a more accurate start position before each run where coverage is lost. When you got coverage back you could plot a reference again.

if the inertial components are done as data logging rather than on the go computation of position the data stream can be post processed and the error reduced.

I guess if you have an accurate enough start point and an accurate enough end point then the position of most error is mid point..... So your accumulating error is halved.

Hmmm can feel more group projects coming on....

Kirbs

[Andy Kirby]

Hmm

Might be worthwhile to run up a group urges focused on packaged intertial/gps logging and nav.

A teensy 3.1 springs to mind here as it has RTC inbuilt and the larger word size needed to do this rot of thing.

A tiny nav/tracker/logger  that was self contained could be used with so many other things.

On immediate orientation I guess this is why the 10 doff models have 3 axes of magentometer.

Clearly it must be doable missiles have used inertial guidance for quite some time now with their high G manoeuvres and less technology than we have now. In reality though it is something we would need to have a play with to find all the stuff we don't know about.

sounds uber cool though

Kirbs

[Bugs]

>I guess if you have an accurate enough start point and an accurate enough end point then the position of most error is mid point..... So your accumulating error is halved.

Yeah, my thinking was that if we have known start and end points for each segment -- the positions and estimated depth of the platform at each station, plus a speed of 0 -- some mathematical wizardry could tightly constrain the possible routes. Similarly, having a button to press every time the train is stationary mid-route would help. And, as we know the only acceleration at that point is due to gravity, we can use that point to confirm vertical orientation. So it's a slightly easier problem set than for an autonomous robot. Which still isn't saying that it's easy, or even possible. Offhand I don't know where to even start calculating the errors involved.

Pointing a camera out of the window to watch the tunnel lights flick past could help with calculating speed, but you'd need a way to measure the distance to a rough, black wall through a window (so not laser or ultrasound). Measure a light fitting and calculate from their apparent size in the image? Starting to get into computer vision territory though, which doesn't feel like an easy fix!

>On immediate orientation I guess this is why the 10 doff models have 3 axes of magentometer.

Not sure I'd trust it on the underground. I'd be fascinated to see the output, actually; lots of big chunks of metal, motors, and high voltage/current stuff around.

Y'know, this is worryingly close to trainspotting. Worse, if anything. Infrastructure is fun, though.

>Clearly it must be doable missiles have used inertial guidance for quite some time now

Can't wait to add DIY missile technology to my increasingly worrisome search history. Of course, if we do it in London we could always revert to pigeon guidance technology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon

[Andy Kirby]

I guess the test for this sort of work is to log data from a 10Doff and a gps over a known walked track that can be verified.

SHH&M to say the top of a multi-storey car park on ayre street via the Rutland and underpass of the ring road.

Then do the post process and see where if any it goes wrong and by how much.

Post processing can be done via script until an algorithm and scheme is devised then coded up into something fast.

This one could be a much more interesting a journey than the end result.

Once it looks do-able there is also the option of doing a walk in pot/cave or 5 in the peaks.

Mapping cave systems is another demanding application for this sort of project.

[Stephen Toms]

Late to the party on this one. 

Sounds like a basic (that's not to say easy!) inertial reference unit is what is required. I was looking at making one of these about 2 years ago for a glider. We use them at work for position data as they don't rely on satellites.

A friend who is an aerobatic glider pilot wanted some sensor data so he could plot his flights after finishing but also to give him live updates on his position in the aerobatics box. As the aerial could be obscured by certain manoeuvres GPS wasn't a viable option. 

We ended up canning the project in the end as the aerobatics association said that its use would be illegal in competition as position in box is supposed to be by visual reference. I'll see if I can dig out my notes, but one thing I do remember is that it was going to need a beefy processor. The teensy was definitely on the table but I think I was exploring a Pi.

Steve

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[mattlangs]

Hi All,

My name is Matthew, I have been to a couple of the meeting so far and enjoyed them. I'm looking to improve my programming skills from just getting started to an OK standard or more if I can. I want to combine this learning with making things that can be programmed in some way or other for a practical use.

I have two projects in mind at the moment. The first is to create a game catalogue in Python 3 and the other had come about from playing board games, the idea has already evolved from coming to the meetings. It is to make a sort of interactive modular game broad that can be pieced together as you play. As far as I have worked out (with some help from the group) I will need lots of different skills (and help most likely) such as electronics, for the LEDs and power supply, 3D printing and some programming. All of which I'm eager to learn.

Skills I can bring, well, what can I say, that are more media based such as 3D modelling and Photoshop. But I will always try to help if I can.

Thanks for reading and I hope to see you in future meeting,

Matthew

[Andy Kirby]

Hi Matthew

Sounds cool. I think there a re a few members into gaming etc so you
should find some worthwhile collaboration.

On gaming and social stuff it might be worth running up some gaming
evenings here and there.....


Kirbs

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[Bugs]

> It is to make a sort of interactive modular game broad that can be pieced together as you play.  

I'd be very interested in hearing about this. I'm a fan of boardgames, it sounds like a fun project.

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[Rich Gwilliam]

Aye, hi Matthew, it was good to talk to you the other day, I've been getting into board gaming myself recently, that is to say I spent last Wednesday in an improvised and involuntary sauna playing them with strangers- more fun than it sounds.  Wouldn't 3d modelling actually translate well into 3D printing, if you'll pardon the unbelievably nerdy pun?  I'm a total neophyte at one of those skills and completely ignorant of the other, so forgive me if I'm out of turn there.

Richard

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[mattlangs]

Thanks for all your replies. I look forward to charting and working with you all. I should be there for the next Monday's meeting, all been well that is.

I'm currently using FreeCad to design the modular box for the game board. I just need to figure out the inside for the electronics now and the electronics as well. I will probably start a new post for this as it will keep things tidy.

As they say 'see you on the flip side'

Matt

[Gervase Markham]

On 09/07/15 01:08, Rich Gwilliam wrote:
> Aye, hi Matthew, it was good to talk to you the other day, I've been
> getting into board gaming myself recently, that is to say I spent last
> Wednesday in an improvised and involuntary sauna playing them with
> strangers

Wait... I don't even... what?

I'm not sure I could think of a physical environment less conducive to
the welfare of board game equipment than a sauna... how does that work?

Gerv

[Andy Kirby]

Freecad is good if a little quirky, I use it a lot.

Having said that any 3D CAD package will do for producing printable 3D
objects, with the Proviso that it needs to have the ability to export
finished 3D objects in .STL (Stereo Lithography) file format. as this is
what the slicers take.

So any package will do. Sketchup used to require that you used the paid
for version to do .STL exports.

A word to the wise avoid packages designed for mesh modelling targeted
at animation etc. Like Blender. They have a habit of creating objects
full of holes and the slicers choke on the results.

Blender is excellent at animation, poor at object creation and takes a
lot of work for models that then won't slice or print.


Cheers

Kirbs

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[Matt Simmonds-Buckley]

On the subject of 3D CAD packages I would recommend downloading MeshLab (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeshLab). Its ideal for editing STL's (such as models form thingiverse) or scanned data. Crucially it can be used to separate parts of a model or scan that you need and export them separately into you cad program to be combined with your project. 

It can also reduce the number of polygons in a model in total (http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/polygon_reduction_with_meshlab) Most 3D CAD programs have a limit on importing STL data for example Solidworks has a 20k limit on poly surfaces for imported parts so this feature is essential. 

One downside of MeshLab is its a pain to use.

[Rich Gwilliam]

I'm not sure I could think of a physical environment less conducive to
the welfare of board game equipment than a sauna... how does that work?

Well, you take a dozen chaps, make them walk into town on the hottest day of the year, then you all sit in an unventilated cellar of a board game shop for a few hours.  Not an actual literal sauna, but felt like one.  Fortunately the owner of  the game had the foresight to have had everything laminated.  ☺ 

Blender is excellent at animation, poor at object creation and takes a lot of work for models that then won't slice or print.

That's what I was wondering about.  That's a shame. Thanks for the pro tip though!

R

[mattlangs]

Hi again,

It has been mentioned before about blender so I will keep that in mind.

I will have a look at the link posted as well.

I have created a new post in the Hackery section called modular gameboard. To help keep things tidy.

Thanks all.

[Gervase Markham]

On 09/07/15 10:10, Rich Gwilliam wrote:
> Well, you take a dozen chaps, make them walk into town on the hottest
> day of the year, then you all sit in an unventilated cellar of a board
> game shop for a few hours.

Ah, I see :-) Where around here is there a board game shop? Or were you
elsewhere?

Gerv

[Rich Gwilliam]

Patriot Games, on Lady's Bridge in Sheffield.  They run a games night every Friday and Wednesday, which I'm trying to turn up to more.

[Bugs]

Have they sorted the, er, ventilation problems in patriot games? I've been to three game nights there -- admittedly not within the last year or so -- and each time got hit by a fug of locker-room smell when I opened the door. Put me off a bit. Nice shop during the day though: good selection and the staff seem to know their stuff.

There's also a board game club that meet on Tuesday nights in a pub (Red house? Red fern?) at the north end of the city centre. Really friendly group, lots of cheerful chat during the games. I've been trying to get along there more, but stuff keeps cropping up on those evenings.

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[Matt Simmonds-Buckley]

Red Deer Perhaps?

[Rich Gwilliam]

It's hard to tell, I've only been there once so far; "locker room smell" is a good way of describing the atmosphere but it was so hot it's fair to say we were all contributing.  I'll look into that other one, though.

[Jelly]

Hi,

I'm looking at becoming a member of sheffield hackspace, having been an active member of NottingHack for the past year whilst living in sheffield... one of the Nottingham bunch pointed out that you existed (something of which i was unaware until now) and I thought it would be a good idea to get involved.

Background wise, I'm an industrial chemist, and spent quite a while working as a joiner and in a sawmill toolroom whilst at uni... Most of my projects are either furniture, toolmaking or machinery based with examples ranging from making reproduction 18th Century card table, through forging my own carving tool for said table, making punches and dies to produce my own saws to ongoing (and slow) re-builds of a Wadkin BAOS-18 Planer/Thicknesser for Nottinghack and an 1920's "surface grinder"* of unclear manufacture.

*I suspect that it actually started life as a horizontal mill and was adapted as a grinder by upgrading spindle and bearings.

Joshua

[Bugs]

Hi Joshua,

Great to hear from you! Yes, please do come along sometime to say hi and see the space. We'll seem very small to you after Nottinghack (...almost everywhere would, I think?), but we have an active community and a growing workshop.

We have scheduled open meetings every Monday evening 1800-2100, and every other Saturday 1100-1700. Once we've got to know new members a bit they can become keyholders, so there are people in and out of the space during the week, too. Similar setup to Nottinghack, I think.

You'll find maps and our calendar on our site: http://www.sheffieldhardwarehackers.org.uk/wordpress/visiting-us/

Come along when you can!

bugs

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[random_dave]

On Sunday, December 9, 2012 at 1:47:24 PM UTC, Andy Kirby wrote:
> New members please make your first posing here.

Hi everyone

In the last couple of years I've been working on and publishing homebrew Dreamcast games that simulate the appearance of classic hand held electronic LCD games.
I have a couple of things that ultimately I would like to do with the versions of these that I take to retrogaming expos
1. I've made balsa wood prototye USB gamepads that I use with raspberry pi builds as demo kiosks, I am currently designing the models to make 3d printed units of these
2. I would like to take a 24" lcd monitor, mount it in a large "replica" of what the handheld would have looked like, complete with massive buttons, as a tabletop/novelty demo version
3. I would love to etch my own LCD segment panels to make one of the handhelds for real
4. I would like to use a bunch of programmable led scrolling signs to make a physical high score table for the demo units

Realistically I am probably only likely to actually make items 1 and 4

Skills that I can offer
- Moderate woodworking, I did a lot of lathe work during my A-levels, and made furniture, but recently it has mostly been things for my allotment made from reclaimed/recycled materials, or generally a bit quick and dirty, so think rustic and slightly imprecise
- Metalworking, I did a fair amount of milling, lathe, casting, brazing and smithing during GCSE/A-Levels
- Programming, well I can make games for various platforms, I would in no way rely on my programming for anything critical/performant, but you never know, I may be of help
- Photography/videography - I've always enjoyed this, I can offer advice and equipment for people, and although naturally a lot of my work is in the digital domain these days I still like to play with films and chemicals and used to enjoy teaching friends how to develop films with a few chemicals and a bathtub

I have the unfortunate habit of amassing far too many hobbies and projects on the go at any one time, so I'm hoping to be able to pop down to the space in person and meet some folks, but in the meantime I thought I'd introduce myself

[Bugs]

Hi random_dave, good to meet you!

Sounds like you'll fit in very well. I think for a lot of us, our only stable hobby is learning new hobbies... it's part of what the group exists to help with :).

The retro gaming project sounds very cool, can't wait to see you getting going on it.

We're fairly well stocked for woodworking and electronics gear, and there's been some talk lately of trying some film development stuff (mostly for pinhole photography, I think?) if we can rig up a dark(ish) room.

Take a look at our calendar, and call in sometime when we have an open session :). Until then, of course, feel free to chip in online.

http://www.sheffieldhardwarehackers.org.uk/wordpress/calendar/

best,

Bugs

[Craig Marston]

Ey up!

I'm Craig and it's taken me a few years since moving back home t' Sheffield to find time* to join your merry band :-)

I started tinkering with analogue electronics as a kid, studied it at college, then ended up being a professional photographer for good while!

I have many, MANY projects on the go, but I tend to hit a brick wall when it comes to programming. I get on great with the PICAXE system (it's aimed at school kids 😆) but I've totally given up with any 'uino stuff. I'm basing all my prohects now on PICAXE and Raspberry Pi, so I'm keen to learn Python and Linux related stuff!!

Generally, if I can avoid writing a line of code by building a Heath Robinson / Wallace & Grommit style contraption instead, then I'd rather do that!

*I'm currently studying with the OU, my wife is just finishing her Masters, and we have a young family, including two that arrived at the same time..!
So then buying a house to renovate might be bonkers…