Vegan Tallitot

[Rick Brody]

Hi all--chag sameach!

I'd like to talk about tallitot (and avoiding using animal products for fulfilling the mitzvah of tzitzit). I've never worn techeilet and, as a vegan, am not interested in changing that practice.

As for the garment itself and the strings:

I'm in need of a new tallit gadol and am about to go to Israel. Does anyone know of a place where I can buy a fully "vegan tallit" (cotton? acrylic? with cotton tzitziyot?), could I buy just the "shawl" without the fringes and obtain them separately, or should I just order everything online? Other recommendations?

FYI, the 2 pages posted below pretty much sum up the main halachic and practical issues regarding Torah vs. Rabbinic commandment, the role of linen and sha'atnez, etc. I'm definitely comfortable leaning on the Rema's opinion that even without a wool garment, I'm fulfilling a Biblical commandment, and it appears that the material for the strings themselves is less important from anyone's perspective.  

Has anyone bought from Ben's Tallit Shop?

http://www.tallit-shop.com/non-wool-tallit-cotton/

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1425700/jewish/Whats-Wrong-With-a-Silk-Tallit-Prayer-Shawl.htm

Thanks all,

Rick

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Rabbi Rick Brody

rbr...@aya.yale.edu

310-770-0272

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[Molly Mardit]

Hi friends,

I know this is not answering the question, but I also want to ask about t'filin! This e-mail of Rick's reminded me of my own curiosity concerning the existence (and permissibility halachically?) of vegan (i.e. synthetic leather) t'filin.

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Molly E. Mardit

The University of Michigan (Residential College) '15

B.A. International and Comparative Studies & Judaic Studies, Music Minor

[Andrew Collard]

In regards to tefillin, I'm pretty sure halachically speaking they must be leather. However, it does not need to come from a slaughtered animal, but can come from one that has died of natural causes. 

Here's a link to the only sofer I've found who ensures his leather comes from animals that were cared for and died naturally:

http://www.soferoftzfat.com/Vegetarian%20Tefillin,Tefilin,Sofer,Scribe,Stam.htm

Best,

Andrew "Akiva" Collard

Sent from my iPhone

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[Linda Bronfman]

Hello all:

There was discussion at the most recent retreat about sourcing "ethical" leather. It was somewhat rushed, and I think it would be helpful for the community at next years retreat to have a session on this topic that would provide an opportunity to learn more about the issues and allow for extended discussion of  differing views.

Chag sameach,

linda

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[Adam Freilich]

Hi Y'all,

As far as strings for tallitot go, I think it's quite likely that people have extra that they can spare. I have a few sets I can offer if you're in the NY/NJ area. I don't exactly think this solves the problem, but at least for now, we can perhaps rely on each other for our tallit/tsitsit strings. It could be useful to start a network of secondhand ritual objects incl. tallit and tefillin. Finding the cloth beged (rest of the tallit) should be relatively easy. Should I need tzitzit, I'd probably find secondhand. This obviously gets in to larger issues about wearing animal products which you've acquired before becoming vegan or you acquired second-hand. 

Also, I'm not sure I feel so bad about the fact that I wear tekheleth on my tallit gadol (which I got before I became a vegan).

a) Does anyone know anything about the method by which the Murex trunculus dye is obtained at scale? Are they farmed or are they wild? Is the process of dye extraction and killing of the Murex trunculus painful? To my knowledge, the process behind getting wool for tzitzit isn't likely very different from the process behind wool production at large. But PETA doesn't exactly mention the Murex trunculus in their videos. 

b) Is the Murex trunculus even in possession of a central nervous system? As someone who has never eaten seafood, where the line is drawn, so to speak, has never been much of an issue for me. I never had to wonder about wether or not I'd eat a bivalve like clam. But perhaps the Murex trunculus can be our mollusk.  
All this isn't to say I never hesitate about it. I'd love to know more about it. But I've never seen any case made for why tekhelet should concern anyone. I'd (at most) not buy another set of tekheleth strings misafek until more information comes to light. Does anyone know more about this?

Regarding halakhic issues of non-wool strings: I just took a glance at the mishnah berurah siman 9. Surrounding all of tzitzit there is a kind of worry about shaatnez/kilayim (mixing wool and linen). Part of this is complicated by the fact that, when it comes to tzitzit, wool and linen are the most obligated materials and therefore, in theory, the best for strings. But, in order to avoid kilayim issues, the practice became to only use wool for tzitzit strings (rema) and not to make the garment out of linen. One could advance a reading where one only needs to specifically avoid linen for the garment or the strings of tzitzit but the strings needn't be from the biblically obligated materials of wool or linen. This seems like a strained reading. But if you're not beholden to ashkenaz minhag as codified by the rema, a cotton garment with linen strings might be ideal? I'm not super sure. What do people think about completely wool-free tallitot? Should the strings be specifically linen, or specifically not-linen (e.g. cotton)? Same question for the garment? My sense, on further reflection is that I would go all linen. Sadly, this doesn't seem to be a thing. Also, after perusing ben's tallit shop's website, I saw no indication that their stings are non-wool, but only the garments. I'd challenge Rick's assertion that "it appears that the material for the strings themselves is less important from anyone's perspective." That seems to be what MB 9:2 means, especially in light of common practice, i.e. wool and linen are best for the strings only that we don't use linen because of an external factor. 

Best, 

adam freilich

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[Esser Agaroth]

Of course, you're right about the Rema. The Ramba"m says only linen and wool are d'Oraita. But, I don't know too many agree with him on this.

You're also right about Techeleth. It's a chemical reaction with the wool.

Just curious, though. What about a garment, made from wool from a sheep which died a natural death?

Acrylic? My understanding is that no, synthetics do not cut it, at all. It must be a natural fabric. Similarly, leather is patur from tzitzith.

My understanding is that even by a lenient position, the garment may not have more than 49% synthetic. But, don't quote me. I may have misheard this. But, for sure the majority of of the garment may not be synthentic. How much so? Not sure.

Why not linen? Or cotton or hemp, with linen tzitzith?

Hag Same'ah!

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Esser Agaroth (2¢) 
            

[Rick Brody]

Helpful responses here—thanks. So, a natural fabric for both the beged and the strings. Ok. So, for the garment, cotton then seems most likely, though hemp is certainly intriguing. Just not sure how easy that is to come by. I realize I could go the completely DIY route—but I'm a busy guy who isn't naturally crafty. Not sure if I'm going to be able to resolve my need for a new tallit so quickly or easily. 

And yes, it seems that linen for strings isn't a thing and I wouldn't be able to find them. I love the idea but it seems like a pipe-dream right now.

So, all commercially sold tzitzit strings are wool? I just assumed the thinner ones were cotton, like on a tallit katan. Hmmm. So, is there really no (easy) way of obtaining a completely animal-free tallit?

Does anyone know about cruelty-free (or less cruel?!?) wool? The sheep doesn't have to be dead! My sense of the cruelty involved is that in theory there's nothing cruel about giving a sheep a "haircut" if done gently (just as one could say the same about picking up an unfertilized egg that a hen has passed) but that the industrialized nature of the process on a mass scale and an entrenchment with the meat industry is what results in abject conditions and an experience of enslavement and exploitation of sheep (and chickens). Ideally, I'd prefer that human beings leave sheep alone and not take any advantage at all of their bodies, but if there are small-scale family-type farms that are treating sheep well and only using the wool to make tzitzit strings (I don't expect this to happen!), I could live with that. 

Chag sameach,

Rick 

PS 

I think I myself have some strings I purchased a while ago, so of course I might as well put them to use. But it still doesn't really address the issue of what I'd feel most comfortable wearing for fulfilling a mitzvah. And yes, all these same issues exist with regard to tefillin, with the added concern of actual slaughter being involved (until tefillin from neveilot becomes a thing!), but I was interested in addressing the tallit issue with the hope of minimizing the number of Jewish rituals I do that involve animal exploitation. 

PPS No one has mentioned silk for the beged, which would seem to be fine according to the Rema, yes? What do others feel about the silk worm, its sentence, etc.? I have tried avoiding silk but certainly recognize Adam's point about the potentially "foolish consistency" of a vegan approach that adheres strictly to the scientific plant/animal divide when questions about a nervous system might be more apt. This of course raises the question of honey as well. 

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[Esser Agaroth]

Re: Sheep, I mention natural death, because I know who would prefer not use wool, as it had been taken from the animal while alive.

I do know that there are shepherds out there who either do not cut off all of the wool at once, or least leave the wool along the spine and top of the head, to prevent sunburn. Or at least, I think that's why this practice is done.

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Esser Agaroth (2¢)  

                   

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