Re: [Samskrita] Re: Sanskrit accents

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 at 17:22, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

In other words, can an AI system be the best chanter of vedas, once it knows the rules of svaras?

https://031323.github.io/suvak/index2.html

 

अस्य ऋग्वेद-पठन-यन्त्रं क्वेति विस्मृतम्। 

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 10:34 AM Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it possible to create vedic accents on any part of veda using some rules, if only text of the veda mantras are available?

are the rules simple and what is the purpose of prathi shakhya for each vedas being separate? yes the svaras are different in rigveda for example for purusa sukta.

but are there specific rules we can input and mark any vedic mantra with svaras based on which veda they belong to.?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 9:45 AM Vishvas Vasuki (Vishvas) <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://vishvasa.github.io/sanskrit/vyAkaraNam/pANinIyam/svaraH/padasvaraH/ इत्य् उपयोगाय स्यात्। 

कः, त्वम्, कस्य, का, हस्ते आद्युदात्ताः। 
पुत्री - अन्तोदात्तः। 
 ते, वा - अनुदात्तः।  

On Tuesday, 10 June 2025 at 7:49:10 am UTC+5:30 T.K Gopalan wrote:

This is amazing!

***

On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 7:20 am, ज्वलन्त्युखा <fryingp...@gmail.com> wrote:

नञ्-बहुव्रीहिसमासः अन्त्योदात्तः। विष्णुसहस्रनामस्तोत्रे अनुत्तमः बहुव्रीहिः । न विद्यते उत्तमः यस्मात् सः अनुत्तम’ः । न उत्तमः अनुत्तमः इति नञ्-तत्पुरुषः निन्दास्तुतिः । अतः जनैः सस्वरं सम्यगुच्चारणं करणीयम् ।

On Monday, May 19, 2025 at 11:33:17 PM UTC-4 T.K Gopalan wrote:

This is most interesting. Hope Nagaraj Paturi mahodaya will be able to bring more light to this.

***

On Tue, 20 May 2025 at 7:38 am, Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.uni-due.de/raster/index.shtml 

Prof Peter Raster, now retired and living his retired life in his home country in Germany is the one I know who focused on the Ashtadhyayi sutras of svara for laukika Samskrita . 

I am trying to locate his papers on this in my collection. 

On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 3:22 AM NathRao <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Natural intelligences make mistakes also :-^)]

Venkat Sastry> I would be curious to know any examples of pitch accent changing the meaning.

There is the famous story of त्वष्टृ saying इ॔न्द्रशत्रु instead of इन्द्रशत्रु॔ [I will use ' on the syllable to denote udatta],changing the meaing from "killer of Indra" for the latter to "having Indra as killer".

Moving the udatta to indicate a change in meaning or grammatical role is a very common occurrence in older stages of Sanskrit: Bahuvrihis and tatpurushas are distinguished this way. The above is an example.This can happen with simple words too: ज्येष्टं "eldest", but ज्ये॔ष्ट "best/greatest".

Example of changing meaning/grammatical role: कटनां कर्ता॔ [udatta on the last syllable of kartaa] "maker of mats", कटान् क॔र्ता "one wont to make mats (taacchiilya), कटान् कर्ता॔ [udatta on the last syllable] "he will make mats" (so called periphrastic future, लुट्).

IIRC, Devasthali, in his monograph on phitsutras, expands on how the pitch accent will make impossible a lot of word play in medieval Sanskrit.

---

Turning to the original question: I don't know if anyone has attempted to add accents to later Sanskrit works, but that doesn't mean no one has tried. I will just explain why no one might:

First is that we don't always know how to accent a given word. If we can etymologize as root+suffix, or prratipadika+taddhita, we can use Panini's rules. Or we can use phit sutras. But these does not always work, especially for neologisms. For example kaanchana looks like it should be accented on the first syllable based on the suffix -ana, but who knows. When  we get to 'taali', all bets are off. [taalipatra must be a tatpurusha, so likely antodatta, but I am not going through all of Ashtadhyayi 6.2 to make sure.]

Second, accenting compounds requires applying the rules from the entire second paada of sith adhyaaya of aSTaadhyaayi, after analyzing the compound. The general rules are simple but there are exceptions, exceptions to exceptions etc. kaa'nchanamaalaa (assuming that it is a bahuvrihi) is not too bad, but I wouldn't try my hand on "viichistobhastanitavihagashrenikanchiguNa".

After you get the accents of all single words, we need to deal with clause/sentence level rules. I won't expand on this as I have too many questions for which I have idea of an answer.
Regards
Nath Rao

On Sunday, May 18, 2025 at 11:37:59 AM UTC-4 kenp wrote:

Reimagining spoken Sanskrit with accent marks involves indicating emphasis, pitch, or stress patterns that might have been used in pronunciation. While classical Sanskrit pronunciation is generally considered to be quite uniform and precise, regional and stylistic variations could introduce subtle accent differences.

Here's a possible way to mark accents or emphasis in your provided dialogue, inspired by traditional recitative and chant traditions, using acute (´) for a higher pitch and grave (`) for a lower pitch. This is an interpretive approach, as there's no standard for accents in classical Sanskrit texts, but it can help visualize how pronunciation might have varied.

**Reimagined with accent marks:**

का त´वं बाले।  
काञ्चनमाला।  
कस्याः पुत्री।  
कनकलतायाः।  
हस्ते किं ते।  
तालीपत्रम्।  
का वा रेखा।  
क ख ग घ।  

**Explanation:**  
- The first line "का त्वं बाले।" has an accent on "त्वं" to suggest a higher pitch on the pronoun, emphasizing the question "Are you a boy?"  
- In "काञ्चनमाला," the word is kept neutral, but an accent could be placed on "माला" if one wanted to emphasize "garland."  
- The other lines are kept mostly neutral or with slight accents to highlight natural speech rhythm.  

**Note:**  
- This is a simplified and interpretive way to indicate potential accents.  
- Actual pronunciation would vary based on regional dialects, recitative styles, and individual speech patterns.  
- Traditional Sanskrit chanting often involves pitch modulation, which can be represented with such marks for study or artistic purposes.

If you'd like a more detailed or differently styled accentuation, please specify!

"AI Overview / AI responses may include mistakes."

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/533f9985-cbd9-45d5-afde-5bf3f736a253n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

Kulapati | Vice-Chancellor, INDICA

 

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CAJGj9eb%3DvBcOYAZz%2BZL8Ugo1%3DXOxqqeRJ9FVkLU9WV0fTjNNVA%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/f8535e4f-7162-4c21-9405-fdc66552632dn%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/68ce04ed-b82f-4057-ad91-198b801ffd32n%40googlegroups.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "samskrita" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/samskrita/fy6jtlsH0sc/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CANkLSMkTxGeFzQL19r4LBYgxkdnS7fG5nqcybUYJdRzV-Ux-Ww%40mail.gmail.com.

--

--
Vishvas /विश्वासः

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

https://031323.github.io/rgvedopkrnani/path इत्य् अप्य् उपादेयम्। 

[Krishna Kashyap]

Is it true that today, there is no need for learning svaras and chanting any of the vedic hymns, since it can be accurately generated? Of course in rituals, procedures have to be followed. However, even in rituals, if we have a good AI machine which can chant the mantras, that can be used in addition to available priests?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/samskrita/CAFY6qgFUHY%3DdHXsKQRsBAJaZ9Zvfadz%3DpR2VXje6NGOf%2BDqZxQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 at 06:57, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it true that today, there is no need for learning svaras and chanting any of the vedic hymns, since it can be accurately generated?

(A caveat is that the modern "traditional" svara-system is different from the atavism the machines currently generate.)

 

Of course in rituals, procedures have to be followed. However, even in rituals, if we have a good AI machine which can chant the mantras, that can be used in addition to available priests?

This is incorrect. Technically, without adhyayana, one has no authority to perform any ritual involving mantras. As a patch, the purohita

"instructs" (=does adhyayana saMskAra) the yajamAna by making him repeat the mantras in the modern context. (Reality is worse, of course.) 
So, for this "adhyayana", one has to have a human AchArya with unbroken transmission from the sages.

 

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "shabda-shAstram शब्द-शास्त्रम्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to shabda-shastr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/shabda-shastram/CANkLSMkF%2Bt1J4sxhGyfzVVXBw7yNrZWv_m5VfTEdMc1wyzeNbg%40mail.gmail.com.