What ever happened to ........... ?

[MargM]

Hi Hugh

Thought I would post a problem I have found insurmountable
from so far away


One of my gt x 2 gfathers was Thomas Bligh( Blythe) GROVEof
Harwich, Essex ( I think ) He was a baker of High St
Harwich from 1823 to 1848 ( source > 2 local PO Dirs) In
the 1841 census he has a tick in local

He married Eliza MORTLEMAN at St Marys Magdalene's
Bermondsey 1832 ,. They had one daughter , Ann , b 1835
Harwich

He was found in the 1851 census , a baker , at 13
Bermondsey Rd Bermondsey , born Essex , with wife Eliza
and dau, Ann.

In 1858 Ann married a grain merchant from Hertfordshire
and they settled in his home town of Berkhamsted

The 1861 census shows them living in Berkhamsted with
mother in law , Eliza GROVE, WIDOW ......... ! So what
happened to Thomas???????????. I have been thru the GRO
deaths via Free BMDs and at the State Library down in
Sydney . Are a few deaths in the 1850's of misc Thomas
GROVEs but none ' jump out ' as being his death

Some time ago I got film of Harwich parish records via the
LDS and couldnt find one ref to a baptism of any GROVE c
1790 -1800

So I am struck at both ends of this GROVE twig

Would welcome any ideas of what to do/where to go next

TIA

Bye


MargM
Member of
Central Coast FHS
Gosford, NSW
Australia
http://centralcoastfhs.org.au

[Hugh Watkins]

were they methodists or other nonconformists?

Baptists only baptise adults
your enquiry is missing date and place of birth

take care with your spelling too
Berkhampstead

High St, Harwich, CO12 3PD

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

Harwich , ESSEX
1. Harwich , SUFFOLK


County: ESSEX Date :1881 Grid Ref: 624500,231500

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/


Harwich, Essex [City/Town/Village]



Harwich, Essex [Town]



Harwich Harbour, Essex [Water Feature]



Harwich Harbour, Sea [Land Feature]



Harwich International Station, Essex [Station]



Harwich Town Station, Essex [Station]
Upper Dover Court and Dovercourt
http://www.sog.org.uk/prc/essex.html

HARWICH
St Nicholas C 1559-65 1569 1571-1977 M 1559-64 1567 1571-1642 1645-65
1673- 1692 1695-1972 B 1559-65 1571-1668 1677 1679 1695-1989 [Mfc
100771]; M 1837-51 [105]; M(I) 1559-1754 [Boyd];B 1813-65 [182]
HARWICH
Wes ZC 1837-1968 [73] Wesl

http://www.sog.org.uk/prc/essex.html#H

1861 England Census
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/list.aspx?dbid=8767&path=Essex.Harwich+St+Nicholas

Please choose an enumeration district in Harwich St Nicholas:
District 3 View description of enumeration district
District 4 View description of enumeration district
District 5 View description of enumeration district

Edwin Grove abt 1845 London, Middlesex, England Boarder Harwich St
Nicholas Essex


I con't make any progress becauae of the conversational style of your
posting misses out key facts

POB DOB names of siblings

I need the 1861 posting and I cannot find it quickly without quantative data

On 9/7/05, MargM <gen...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Hi Hugh
>
> Thought I would post a problem I have found insurmountable
> from so far away
>
>
> One of my gt x 2 gfathers was Thomas Bligh( Blythe) GROVEof
> Harwich, Essex ( I think ) He was a baker of High St
> Harwich from 1823 to 1848 ( source > 2 local PO Dirs) In
> the 1841 census he has a tick in local

what house number?

Hugh Wallis is the best entrance to familysearch
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/index.htm


Harwich
(Bathside Chapel Or Saint
Nicholas Independent
Congregational) C067331 1783-1837
(Saint Nicholas Wesleyan) C067341 1794-1836

no GROVE
but they could be in Colchester

Hugh W

--
Welsh Families HOMEPAGE
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hugh/monfh2/index.html
and a very helpful list and message board
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/monfh2/

[MargM]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Watkins" <hugh.w...@gmail.com>
To: <sg...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:15 PM
Subject: [sgbm] Re: What ever happened to ........... ?


Hi Hugh

> were they methodists or other nonconformists?
>

Thomas GROVE and Eliza MORTLEMAN m at St Mary Magdalene's,
Bermondsey which I think is the parish church so therefore C
of E

> Baptists only baptise adults
> your enquiry is missing date and place of birth
>

It was ? For who ??

> take care with your spelling too
> Berkhampstead

I might not live anywhere near there now BUT I was born &
grew up there.
Are 50 ways of spelling this towns name . In LDS records
its known as Great Berkhampstead . I stick to its current
spelling

>
> 1861 England Census
> http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/list.aspx?dbid=8767&path=Essex.Harwich+St+Nicholas
>

I checked the 1861 census of Essex and appears to be only
one GROVE family born and living in Essex ........ thats of
a George GROVE of Gt Easter

>> Edwin Grove abt 1845 London, Middlesex, England Boarder
>> Harwich St
> Nicholas Essex
>

??? Who is he ???


>
> I con't make any progress because of the conversational

> style of your
> posting misses out key facts
>


> POB DOB names of siblings

Of which siblings ???????? I have no idea if gg gfather
Thomas had any . To the best of my knowledge he only had
one child, Ann, so she didnt have any

>
> I need the 1861 posting and I cannot find it quickly
> without quantative data
>

For what ?

>
>>> One of my gt x 2 gfathers was Thomas Bligh( Blythe)
>>> GROVEof
>> Harwich, Essex ( I think ) He was a baker of High St
>> Harwich from 1823 to 1848 ( source > 2 local PO Dirs) In
>> the 1841 census he has a tick in local
>
>
> what house number?
>

House number ? Pretty sure there werent any ?? Was just
High St, Harwich

>
> Harwich
> (Bathside Chapel Or Saint
> Nicholas Independent
> Congregational) C067331 1783-1837
> (Saint Nicholas Wesleyan) C067341 1794-1836
>
> no GROVE
> but they could be in Colchester
>

What leads you to think that ? A clue ??

Thanks

Bye

MargM
Beautiful Central Coast of NSW
Australia

[Hugh Watkins]

Doing genealogy as you well know is working backwards tiny step by tiny step.

When some one is stuck, a brickwall, as a volunteer you have to start
with the known and go to the unknown - therefore it is essential to
retrace the steps made by the other researcher

I this case (as an ancestry subscriber) I want to start in 1861

Often there is no brickwall because a researcher has made an
assumption or an error has been made in the *old* records

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/

1861 England Census
Viewing records 1-50 of 2,464 matches for:
Grove

On 9/8/05, MargM <gen...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hugh Watkins" <hugh.w...@gmail.com>
> To: <sg...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:15 PM
> Subject: [sgbm] Re: What ever happened to ........... ?
>
>
> Hi Hugh
>
> > were they methodists or other nonconformists?
> >
>
> Thomas GROVE and Eliza MORTLEMAN m at St Mary Magdalene's,
> Bermondsey which I think is the parish church so therefore C
> of E
>
>
> > Baptists only baptise adults
> > your enquiry is missing date and place of birth
> >
> It was ? For who ??

all of them

> > take care with your spelling too
> > Berkhampstead
>
> I might not live anywhere near there now BUT I was born &
> grew up there.
> Are 50 ways of spelling this towns name . In LDS records
> its known as Great Berkhampstead . I stick to its current
> spelling

true but in historical records expect historical spellings
google hits 641,000 for Berkhamsted.
745 for Berkhampsted.
45,400 for Berkhampstead

like
Berkhampstead Poor Law Union and WorkhouseA new parish workhouse was
built at Berkhampstead in 1831 following the bequest of £1000 by ...
Berkhampstead Poor Law Union was formed on 12th June 1835. ...
users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/Berkhampstead/

Hertfordshire Genealogy: Places: Little Berkhampstead, HertsLittle
Berkhampstead from Bryant's map of 1822. BERKHAMPSTEAD (LITTLE), a
parish in the hundred and county of Hertford, 4¾ miles (SW by S.) from
Hertford, ...
www.hertfordshire-genealogy.co.uk/ data/places/little-berkhampstead.htm

Ancestry.com - 1891 England Census... Search > Census > UK Census
Collection > 1891 England Census > Hertfordshire > Berkhampstead ...
Please choose an enumeration district in Berkhampstead: ...
content.ancestry.com/Browse/
list.aspx?dbid=6598&path=Hertfordshire.Berkhampstead - 20k - 6 Sep
2005 - Cached - Similar pages


Ancestry.com - 1901 England Census... Search > Census > UK Census
Collection > 1901 England Census > Hertfordshire > Berkhampstead ...
Please choose an enumeration district in Berkhampstead: ...
content.ancestry.com/Browse/
list.aspx?dbid=7814&path=Hertfordshire.Berkhampstead

spelling varies according to context

Henry Atkins MD of Great Berkhampstead for thirty two years ...Henry
Atkins MD of Great Berkhampstead for thirty two years physician to
King James 1 and Charles 1. Griffin JP. Publication Types Biography
...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&
db=PubMed&list_uids=11395936&dopt=Abstract


[PDF] GREAT BERKHAMPSTEAD districtFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Welcome to the Great Berkhampstead District of the Oddfellows. Members
of the District have ... Great Berkhampstead Provincial Lodge of Past
Grands ...
www.oddfellows.co.uk/diaries/GT%20BERKS.pdf - 6 Sep 2005

MARRIAGE Index Extracts1680, William, Mary Tommerlin, Gt
Berkhampstead, Hertford. 1683, Elizabeth, William Ward ... 1714, John,
Elizabeth Rosebird, Gt Berkhampstead, Herts ...
www.pluckroses.dynamicdolphindesigns.com/Marriages.htm -

Prince William Augustus, the third son of King (King of Great Britain
and Elector of Hanover from 1727 to 1760 (1683-1760)) George II. Other
titles granted to Prince William were Marquess of Berkhampstead, Earl
of Kennington, Viscount Trematon and Baron Alderney. Since the Prince
died unmarried and without children, his titles became extinct at his
death.
-- I never new that LOL

they are not where you expect them to be
sometimes it is nessary to use the dreaded ripple method

>>>GROVEof
Harwich, Essex ( I think ) <<

is a bit ambigious

If I go to PARLOC within one hour's walk
===================================
Parish Locator Report
=====================

The following list of Parishes are within a
4 Mile Radius of Harwich, P, ESS, ENG.

Parish Name Type,County,Country,OsRef
Distance & Direction
=========== =========================
====================

Dovercourt P ESS ENG TM2531 0.6 East
Erwarton P SFK ENG TM2134
2.6 North West
Great Oakley P ESS ENG TM1927
4.0 South West
Harwich P ESS ENG TM2431 0.0
Little Oakley P ESS ENG TM2229
1.8 South West
Ramsey P ESS ENG TM2130
2.0 West by South West
Trimley St Mary P SFK ENG TM2836
4.0 North East
Walton P SFK ENG TM2935
4.0 North East

================================
withi 2 hours walk
Parish Locator Report
=====================

The following list of Parishes are within a
8 Mile Radius of Harwich, P, ESS, ENG.

Parish Name Type,County,Country,OsRef
Distance & Direction
=========== =========================
====================

Alnesbourn Priory P SFK ENG TM1940
6.4 North by North West
Beaumont cum Moze P ESS ENG TM1624
6.6 South West
Bradfield P ESS ENG TM1430 6.2 West
Brightwell P SFK ENG TM2443 7.5 North
Bucklesham P SFK ENG TM2441 6.2 North
Chelmondiston P SFK ENG TM2037
4.5 North by North West
Dovercourt P ESS ENG TM2531 0.6 East
Erwarton P SFK ENG TM2134
2.6 North West
Falkenham P SFK ENG TM2939
5.9 North by North East
Felixstowe P SFK ENG TM3034
4.2 East by North East
Foxhall P SFK ENG TM2243 7.6 North
Freston P SFK ENG TM1639
7.0 North West
Frinton P ESS ENG TM2319 7.5 South
Great Holland P ESS ENG TM2119
7.7 South by South West
Great Oakley P ESS ENG TM1927
4.0 South West
Harkstead P SFK ENG TM1834
4.2 West by North West
Harwich P ESS ENG TM2431 0.0
Hemley P SFK ENG TM2842
7.3 North by North East
Holbrook P SFK ENG TM1636
5.9 West by North West
Kirby le Soken P ESS ENG TM2221
6.3 South by South West
Kirton P SFK ENG TM2739
5.3 North by North East
Levington P SFK ENG TM2339 5.0 North
Little Oakley P ESS ENG TM2229
1.8 South West
Nacton P SFK ENG TM2140
5.9 North by North West
Newbourn P SFK ENG TM2742
7.1 North by North East
Purdis Farm P SFK ENG TM2142
7.1 North by North West
Ramsey P ESS ENG TM2130
2.0 West by South West
Ramsholt P SFK ENG TM3141
7.6 North East
Stratton Hall P SFK ENG TM2438 4.3 North
Stutton P SFK ENG TM1534
5.9 West by North West
Tattingstone P SFK ENG TM1337
7.8 West by North West
Tendring R ESS ENG TM1424
7.6 South West
Tendring P ESS ENG TM1424
7.6 South West
Thorpe le Soken P ESS ENG TM1822
6.7 South by South West
Trimley St Martin P SFK ENG TM2737
4.2 North by North East
Trimley St Mary P SFK ENG TM2836
4.0 North East
Walton P SFK ENG TM2935
4.0 North East
Walton le Soken P ESS ENG TM2624
4.5 South by South East
Wherstead P SFK ENG TM1540
7.9 North West
Wix P ESS ENG TM1628
5.3 West by South West
Woolverstone P SFK ENG TM1838
5.7 North West
Wrabness P ESS ENG TM1731 4.3 West
=============================

Colchester is the present day administrative centre and 16 miles away
people met at quarter days looking for jobs or shopping at the great
markets or fairs

so geography is a factor


4 or 5 hours walk

our ancesters walked mostly

=============
Parish Locator Report
=====================

The following list of Parishes are within a
1 Mile Radius of Colchester, R, ESS, ENG.

Parish Name Type,County,Country,OsRef
Distance & Direction
=========== =========================
====================

Colchester R ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,All Saints P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,Holy Trinity P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Botolph P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Giles P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St James P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Leonard P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Martin P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Mary Magdalen P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Mary at the Walls P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Nicholas P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Peter P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
Colchester,St Runwald P ESS ENG TL9925 0.0
St Michael Mile End P ESS ENG TL9926 0.6 North

and a military centre since roman times

About five years ago I went to a very significant SoG lecture called
"I'm stuck" and that is the sort of thinking I apply to your problem

The lack of online indexing for this period means that you need to
contact the local historical society or FHS or employ a professional
researcher. (Not me :-) - I would be too expensive)







Hugh W

[MargM]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hugh Watkins" <hugh.w...@gmail.com>

To: "MargM" <gen...@optusnet.com.au>
Cc: <sg...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: [sgbm] Re: What ever happened to ........... ? Part
2


Hi again Hugh

> Doing genealogy as you well know is working backwards tiny
> step by tiny step.
>

- therefore it is essential to
> retrace the steps made by the other researcher
>

OK

> I this case (as an ancestry subscriber) I want to start in
> 1861
>

No worries ...........

You will find James and Ann REDDING living in Berkhamsted
HRT with mum in law, Eliza GROVE , wid, blind

Ann Grove REDDING was b 3 Feb 1835, Harwich Essex , bapt 4
Sep 1840 Harwich

James REDDING was b Northchurch HRT c 1823

Their first surviving child was Joseph Thomas REDDING
b 14 Jan 1864 , Berkhamsted, d 27 Dec 1941 Port Alberni
BC Canada

My grandfather, Philip Wm wasnt born til 1870

Eliza Mortleman GROVE was b 1801 Gt Yarmouth NFK


She married Thomas Bligh GROVE at St Mary Magdelanes
Bermondsey 23 Jun 1832 by license. He was ' of the parish
of St Michael, Harwich, Essex according to copy from this
churches records

I have copy of this license . This reads Thomas Bligh GROVE
of the parish of St Nicholas, Harwich, Essex



Thomas Bligh GROVE was baker of High Street , Harwich from
1823 to 1848 .

In the 1841 census these is a tick in local along side his
entry


In the 1851 census the GROVE family had moved to Bermondsey

> >>
>> I might not live anywhere near there now BUT I was born
>> &
>> grew up there.
>> Are 50 ways of spelling this towns name . In LDS records
>> its known as Great Berkhampstead . I stick to its current
>> spelling
>
> true but in historical records expect historical spellings
> google hits 641,000 for Berkhamsted.
> 745 for Berkhampsted.
> 45,400 for Berkhampstead
>

So there are !

Thank you for listing all the possibles via PARLOC

bye

MargM
http://www.raogk.org/australia.htm